The Josh Innes Show - JIS Classic: J&R Reunion Hour 2

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

Here is hour 2 of the J&R Reunion on ESPN 97.5. In this hour we talk with Jim Mudd and Ben Nance, two former producers of the show. We continue to share fun stories of our short lived, but memorable time together. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Josh Innes Show on ESPN 97.5 and on ESPN 97.5.com live from the Veritex Community Bank Studios. Here's Josh Innes. Welcome in Josh Innes Show, our number two. But today it is the JNR show because Rich Lord is here. Give it to me, Nick. There we go. So cool. Now we're're back officially i'm redskins owner dan snyder you found it this is archie manning you found it coach dick ramil you found it you're listening to josh and rich and you found it hello i'm in the science and you found it this is nolan wright and you found it i am adam sandler and great news guys you found it and what's great about that is it's so dated that one of those people is dead.

One of those people's career we've never heard from again. I think every one of those pieces of audio was from the Dallas Super Bowl. Remind me who Anna Sines was. She was this really hot, I think, reporter from, was it Mexican TV? Right, but why had she been a big name? I forgot. Was she a weather person, like a really hot weather person in Mexico? I feel like there was some incident that put her on the map.

But she was walking around at the Super Bowl when we were in Dallas. That odd time where we went to sleep on Sunday, woke up the next day, and it was snowing, and we could barely get down to the ballroom. It was cold in the ballroom. It was. By the way, if you didn't recognize all those voices, the late person in that open that Josh just mentioned was Pat Summerall. Pat Summerall.

That is so freaking cool. I wish I would have had him actually say Josh and Rich or say his name so you know it's Pat Summerall. That had to have been right before he died. If I recall about that interview, he talked a lot about how he was an alcoholic. Yeah, he talked about the intervention. Like, it's amazing. Like, we got to talk to some cool people in our day. We have some moments, man.

Let me see here. Let's talk to a few people, then we're going to call Jim, and then we're going to call Ben, who used to produce the show as well. Ron. Actually, hold up. Ron, we're going to get to you, but TJ's there too. TJ, thank you for holding, buddy. What's going on?

TJ. Yeah, TJ here. you but tj's there too tj thank you for holding buddy what's going on tj yeah tj here i just want to say i've met rich lord several years ago at russell and smith ford he's a real nice guy i enjoyed uh the triple threat and i miss you a whole bunch and before that i enjoyed the original jnr show especially the part where josh used to be god with that vocator he used so big uh shout out to you rich welcome back tj appreciate that thank you tj russell and ford that's a long russell and smith that's a long time ago that's that because i don't even that wasn't even around for that so um here's a question that i need to ask you though did you feel slighted in any way or do you feel it was off when did you feel that whenever you got let go that they had basically brought in clint for you to teach your replacement did you ever get that feeling after i

did not no i did like that to me kind of felt like i don't know that you bring in that the guy like to me it felt like they brought him in and they're like well let him hang out with rich and since he's on with rich you you wet your your beak a little bit whatever and then now he's gonna take your job like that's what it felt like to me and another thing and i have nothing against sean sean's a very nice guy he is my issue is i felt like you were punished potentially for the failure of the show when the other part of the show was rewarded with a morning show like that's how that was viewed to me like to me if you're a show're a show. And if the show works and the show doesn't work, it ends. It's

not like, hey, the show didn't work, but one guy on the show didn't work. The other guy is going to get elevated to the prime time slot on the station. That bothered me, too. The irony of it is, and I believe David Barron wrote about this at the time, the week I was let go, we were the number one show in Afternoon Drive. How about that?

How about that? It's funny how these things work out. But those things are fleeting. They come and go. They are extremely fleeting. We didn't really look at ratings a ton when Gavin was there because Gavin was kind of like, hey, you guys are number one or whatever, never told us the numbers. I didn't become addicted to numbers consumption until I got to Philadelphia,

and I was an addict. You want to talk about being an addict. It wasn't just show me the numbers. It was show me how we got the numbers, and you can see that from looking at meters. You can read meters. I was addicted to it. Like, it was, and I still am to a degree,

although here I don't really have access to any of that, and that's probably good. It probably is. It's very good for my health. Gavin used to get so mad when you'd take over his computer in the post-show meeting to analyze the ratings. Absolutely. And this is real talk, and this is no insult anyone who's here anywhere else when we were cooking at 6 10 it was really like no other radio station existed like i mean

it was us and then it was like a lot of people trying to catch us and i even talked with aj about that when i left to go to philly aj who i'd never spoken with before sends me a message and he's like i'm really glad you're leaving you know what we like we really cooked at one point and I give Gavin a lot of credit for that I think and you don't have to answer this if you don't want and can you get Jim on the phone over there too Nick I sent you his number um whenever they brought in Nick to replace Mark I felt the station have a bit of a turn. And I was still there at the time because I was there for about a year that Nick was there. And I think it became more of a political radio station. A lot of stories were big.

I mean, they were all kind of social issues at that time, too. There was the issue with Adrian Peterson hitting his kid with a rope or a cord. There were big political stories. And I think what happened is the station went away from or something, a cord. You know, there were big political stories. And I think what happened is the station went away from being kind of a fun, everybody's a buddy, to maybe a more combative atmosphere and maybe a little bit more of a politically driven atmosphere. I wouldn't dispute that. And I think that hurt.

And I think that a lot of the younger people there were kind of following his lead. And I think it kind of impacted the quality. But I will tell you this when we were on in the afternoon when mike and brad were in the middays and that's not to slight anybody else mad radio when mad radio got that started and when mark and john were in the morning that was a really good lineup and i think eventually like fred was at night at one point uh barry was there with sean for a while they like you thought we hated each other like at least at times we liked each other.

Those two guys on a regular basis. Remember that day that Barry walked in and was so mad about something I did, he, like, forearm-shived me while I was on the air? Like, there were some things that went, like, it was screwy. But I'll give Barry this, and I don't know if he's listening, but Barry used to tell me all the time when I first got here, and I was like, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go to L.A.

I'm getting calls, like, at the times, like like Seattle, Kansas City, all these places were calling. And he says, Savant, here's what you need to know. You don't know what you don't know, chirp. And he went wrong because I sit here and I blew this thing up. Like I said, I'm ready to get the hell out of here. And he's like, you're not ready to go to L.A. or any of these places, chirp. See, i'm hesitant to comment on anything about barry because he may be waiting for me outside you have no idea

how much he hates me now really and what you know why what did you do because i laughed at your jokes oh no it's my fault i did but barry laughed at the jokes for a long time. His perception of that whole situation was that I should have been his defender. And instead, I laughed at your, by the way, extremely funny material. But the problem is he took it all so serious. And if you want to blame anyone, blame Gavin. Gavin's the one that kept telling me to make fun of people on the station. The only other times I've seen Barry since then, he's muttered F-bombs under his breath at me. I'm not lying.

Me and Jim saw him in the gallery. He walked past me, and he wanted to attack me. I'm telling you the truth. Well, you saw the time that he came in, and just like I'm in the middle of a segment, and he just rams into me in the middle of the segment. But see, the thing is, though, I know that I was also an a-hole a lot of the time. So I get why people would dislike me. Now I'm a little bit more toned down when it comes to the inner office stuff.

But I was a nutcase for a long time there, and I was a nutcase for a long time in Philadelphia. And I thought I'd calm down here when I got to 790, but that was a mess over there as well. Again, I'd like to move on because there'll probably be an engine revving outside when I leave this place. But here's why I love Barry. Like when I got here, he took me under his wing and everything took me to all the ball games, introduced me to people that he said he knew. I don't know that he really did.

But then there were days that like Barry would call me and go, Savant, I am picking you up and I am taking you to meet somebody. And I'd go, all right, Barry. So at the time he had a Jaguar, if you'll recall, like a Jaguar. And he rolled up and he says, Savant, we are going to the Four Seasons Hotel. I said, all right, let's go. So we go to the Four Seasons Hotel. And we'd sit down and go, Savant, you're going to love who we're going to meet.

And I'm thinking, okay, I don't know who the hell this is. Outwalks Dominique Wilkins, sits down with Barry. And I'm like, wow. And he's like, and I don't know that the hell this is out walks dominique wilkins sits down with barry and i'm like wow and he's like and i don't know that the guy remembers barry or they don't but they all act like they do yeah so it becomes like this whole thing like they're best friends and he's sharing these awesome basketball stories and i'm like wow this is awesome like barry and the other cool thing about barry is barry will come out like after, like at a Rockets game during warmups, after you go eat downstairs, you had to come out to come back up the stairs to go sit in the press area. He'd just walk out on the court while dudes are warming up and start carrying on a conversation.

Like there's a layup line and Barry walks over and just starts talking with Chris Paul one day. And I'm like, what is happening here? Say what you will about Barry. He's the greatest networker I've ever met in my life. Unreal. Well, you know how we got the job at 610? It's like Nolan Ryan called Gavin, and he's like, hey, hire my friend Barry. Gavin's in a meeting.

His phone buzzes. He can't pick it up. He comes out of the meeting. He checks his voicemail. And on his voicemail, hi, Gavin, this is Nolan Ryan. I think you should hire Barry Warner. And Jim Nance did the same thing. He just did the same hello, friends.

Called Gavin Spittel and said hire Barry Warner. So as far as networking, there's never been a better networker than Barry Warner. God, let's talk with Jim Mudd for a second here. Now, Jim, he was kind of like, I won't call him shimp of the show because shimp came first and then left. He kind of got the curly Joe treatment. Like he got there right at the end, like right when it blew up. Jim, how are you? I'm great.

How are you guys? Good. Nice to see you guys together again, by the way. Well, thank you. Jim, we want to know, what is your job again? What do you do? I work for Veterans Evaluation Services. Basically, it's one of four companies that is contracted to help evaluate veterans for their disabilities and pension.

You're doing the Lord's work then. Yeah, yeah. Unless you sell it. Next week I get my white coat and reflex hammer. Good Lord willing in the creek to rise, right? Yep. So you got the gig with us like in the last year of it. So you got to be there for arguably the wackiest, but also the most hostile era of

the JNR show. Yeah, I feel a lot like Timothy B. Schmidt must have felt whenever he replaced Randy Meisner. Wow. Because you get there and you're like, this is finally, I'm no longer in Poco. No offense to Mad Radio, but Mad Radio was Poco in this case. And Timothy B. Schmidt's like, I'm out of Poco. And that's what jim says i'm no longer in poco i'm in the eagles you even got to do your own little song you got to do i can't tell you why this is your moment and then it all blows up and you're right back to like damn it now but here's my question i'm the one and jim i know you remember this when jim decided to follow you and leave 610 i went into the studio and i said jim are you sure you want to do you and leave 610. I went into the studio and I said, Jim, are you sure you want to do this?

And you know what? You were right. I said, you've got a pretty steady gig here. It's probably not in danger of going away anytime soon. Do you really want to hitch your wagon to Josh? Nobody likes when I told you so, Rich. Now think about this, though, because me and Jim were pretty tight. One thing I've always been able to do is like co-op producers to be like my right-hand man.

And at times, just like I think in listening to your other show, I feel like at times there was a gang-up factor there with Ted and Sean sometimes. I think they kind of ganged up. I think me and Jim or me and Ben would gang up sometimes. And whether that's fair or unfair, it was the truth. That made for good radio. It did. But so I believe, if I'm not mistaken, when I left, Jim, did you want to work with Rich or Rich? Did you want to get Jim out of that show?

Like, how did that work? No, I was perfectly fine with Jim still being the guy. Is this true, Jim? Yeah, sure. Is this true, Jim? Yeah, sure. It's true. Because you eventually moved to the mornings. I did, yeah. I had nothing to do with that.

It was about a month or two later. Okay, okay. I was just wondering. So what is your favorite memory of your very short time working on the J&R show? There are actually three that come to mind. Wow, trifecta yeah the wedding obviously was a high point i'm really quick to interrupt that wedding once i finally got to look at the numbers it was the number one rated thing on the radio in houston

from 5 to 5 30 and it was just a terrible bit like it was all about roy head roy head was there and old man sam was there and there was a midget there i don't know who all was there, and old man Sam was there, and there was a midget there. I don't know who all was there. But the thing had the biggest – it was the number one most listened to thing, Men 2554 in Houston from 5 to 5.30. That one I had to see for sure, and it was true. Yep. The Looking for Royce White, that was another one that I – Home Depot.

Oh, yeah. That audio has got to be around somewhere. I have the song song do you have it which do you have the audio of the song we played when we were the the runaway train royce white song yeah it's somewhere in a flash drive somewhere i don't have it handy but i have it that was the funny thing about that about this flash drive i i put it all on this computer a while back and i have my itunes on that computer that's the only thing i use that computer for um randomly i'll be driving down the road and I'll hear, Richard, don't.

I'm like, where'd that come from? I guess I had that on that flash drive. That, to me, the two things that I love the most that we did. We called your mom multiple times. We did. We sent her the peppers and egg or whatever it was, sausage. That was on her birthday. I sent her dinner.

We had the delivery guy on the phone singing happy birthday to her. And then we called my grandma. We did. That's right. And she was on. And those were two of my favorite things we did. But, Jim, what was your third? The time the three of us went to Vegas.

Now, I know it wasn't on the air, most of it. But that night we spent at the pizza place. Naked City Pizza. Naked City Cafe or whatever. Yeah. Naked City? We had so much fun. And that's the drunkest I Naked City Pizza. The Naked City Cafe or whatever, yeah. Yeah, was it Naked City? We had so much fun. And that's the drunkest I've ever seen Jim.

And that was the day that Jim called Bootsy and left him that long message about how he loved him and stuff. Which I didn't remember, and I didn't remember the next morning either. I remember walking into the ballroom, and I sit down, and you were on a roll at some slot. It was the Grease penny slot. Yeah, so you didn't come to the show right away. Anyway, so I sit down, and Rich has got this look in his eye,

like he just had this mischievous look in his eye, and I could for the life of me figure out what it was until the voicemail started playing. Yep. It worked out with Casio or whoever was running the board. It would have been Casio. It doesn't matter. But, yeah, then I'm like, oh, okay, now I know why he's got this look in his eye.

That is the great Jim. Jim, we love you, buddy. Good talking with you. Oh, I love you guys, too. Good to hear from you, Jim. Back to, you know, go to work for the veterans. What if he doesn't select a veteran that gets benefits? That's got to suck, right?

Like, sorry, I know that you're a veteran and all, but you've got to go. I'm sorry. Tough. Hey, you know what? Them's be the breaks bro all right uh more after this here on the j and r party on the josh in a show esps 97.5 all right if you're ready to win some real cash during the basketball playoffs, you got to check out pick six from DraftKings. When it comes to basketball payouts, DraftKings pick six posterizes the competition, including prize picks.

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eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction pick six not available everywhere including new york and ontario void where prohibited one per new customer bonus award it is non-withdrawable pick six credits that expire in 14 days. Limited time offer. See terms at pick6.draftkings.com slash promos. You're listening to The Josh Innes Show on ESPN 97.5. And on ESPN 97.5.com. Live from the Veritex Community Bank Studios, here's Josh Innes. All right, so it's the J&R reunion show here on 97.5.

Of course, the Blitz, they're reunited today as well because AJ's been just floating down the river. Something Rich would not do because he's barely going outside due to the Rona. At the moment, no. But I like floating down the river. Will you go to it? would not do because he's barely going outside due to the rona at the moment no uh but i like floating down will you go to it when can jenny is so sick of being at home and you've discussed how jenny's sick of being sick of me being at home well that's fine but can you go to a restaurant will she be better will you be able to uh to quench her thirst for adventure if you go to a restaurant i think both of us are in agreement on this one. I don't know if we're comfortable going to a

restaurant if it's not an outdoor patio. But there's a ton of those. Now it's going to be 100 degrees here soon. I think we would do that. But an indoor dining room right now just doesn't feel right. You know what's interesting? Shifting gears a bit. Yesterday, because Bill O'Brien had a message about all this stuff with George

Floyd. Jenny would love to hang out with Bill O'Brien. He'd love to discuss George Floyd with Jenny. He's very engaging. But all of a sudden, this guy that's super hated by everybody because of everything that's happened in the last six months is now kind of forgiven a little bit because of his comments on Floyd. But if I remember the podcast correctly, there was an F-bomb you dropped in relation to what's going on with the Texans.

I saw the Chronicle headline this morning that said Bill O'Brien angry. And I thought, how does that make a headline? Doesn't he live his life in a state of anger? Well, John McClain tweeted yesterday, he goes, this is the most passionate and angry I've ever heard, Bill. You're at every press conference of his, John. You hear every one of them. He's always angry and surly and honest and passionate.

Well, what I said to you on your podcast, which I have no problem repeating on the air, and I've been looking forward to talking about this, was last year, and you know what I'm going to talk about, when they got their asses kicked at NRG Stadium by the Denver Broncos. Yep. Late in the regular season. I think they were down 31-3 at halftime. Mm-hmm.

And everybody knows the video I'm going to reference when Bill O'Brien is walking into the tunnel and somebody with their cell phone video catches him. Someone in the very expensive seats, I guarantee you this was a seasoned ticket holder, yells down to O'Brien two words, you suck. Yep, which everybody hears all the time and the man who is charged with running that franchise reacts by completely going ape you know what yep

unbelievable but can you give him credit for at least acknowledging that he also sucks I just suck too. I just suck too. Unbelievable. But can you give him credit for at least acknowledging that he also sucks? Because the guy goes, you suck. And he goes, well, you know what? I might suck, but you suck too. But here's the thing. When you're down 31-3 to a bad Denver Bronco team at halftime at home, you do suck. You do.

The guy was right. Yes, you do. But it just illustrated the short fuse we're dealing with here and the emotional nature of his personality that we're dealing with here, which I think comes through and is to his detriment in many, many in-game decisions. He is just far too emotional. But I'm not even talking about that because that's a separate issue. But stopping and having to be restrained and going off

and calling a season ticket holder an MF-er, you're gone. You would have fired him? On the spot. If I could have been the guy that fired him at halftime, I would have fired him. There's no way you can tolerate the guy who's now not just your head coach but also your general manager the face of the franchise having a random fan yell you suck and reacted with reacting with a spew of f-bombs

mf bombs directed at said season ticket holder he should have been fired but you've been around long enough so you've seen a lot of these guys like you saw you know kevin gilbride get swung on by buddy i mean you've seen all of these things but he's the leader he wasn't just a guy he wasn't just a coach he wasn't just a team official he was the leader the face of the franchise and he completely lost control of himself i'm sorry those are the guys that pay the bills pay the salary his salary the player's salary the season ticket holders and he randomly went off with MF-er after MF-er after MF-er. I would have fired him that Monday.

See, sometimes I'm empathetic with fans and other times I'm not because fans are allowed to say anything they want based on purchasing a ticket, right? So it's now incumbent upon you as a player who's getting MF-ed and told all this stuff. Now, not in this case, but who knows all the stuff Bill O'Brien's heard. At some point, like, I'm okay with a player or a fan. Like, in my mind, sometimes a fan deserves it.

Sometimes you deserve to get it thrown right back at you. Oh, fans cross the line. Because that can humble you. That can shut you up real quick. No, no, fans cross the line. But you suck is not crossing the line. No, but responding to it. You know what?

You don't give them any credit for acknowledging that, you know what? I do suck, but you suck as well. No credit for at least some self-awareness. There's some self-awareness there when you're willing to say, you suck too. You didn't say, oh, I suck. No, you suck. There was no no. It was, oh, yeah, I do suck, friend, but guess what?

You suck too. I still think it's inexcusable. And my opinion of Bill O'Brien did not improve any when he moved DeAndre Hopkins. Or what about at the draft when he's yelling at the phone? The best piece of audio, and I don't have it, but when he was asked about it, John McClain asked him, like, hey, you looked a little irritated. He goes, oh, that? Oh, no, we were just messing around on the Zoom. Like, what?

Like, what kind of messing around on the Zoom is when you're clearly MFing another dude? And I believe he said something like, that's your fault or something like that. And he goes, no, we're just messing around on the Zoom. And then he deflects and starts talking about how they've gotten a bunch of deals done on the back patio. I mean, they sacrificed a ton of draft capital for Laramie Tunsil, who led the league in false starts. And played well when he wasn't false starting. I acknowledge that. And then paid him the biggest contract in the league in false starts and played well when he wasn't false starting. I acknowledge that. And then paid him the biggest contract in the league.

But the DeAndre Hopkins thing, if I'm not mistaken, the net result of moving DeAndre Hopkins was Ross Blacklock and David Johnson. Pretty much, right? Well, they got a second and a fourth for that, too. And they gave up a four. Yeah, that's what it was. The second is the big part of it. So Ross Blacklock and David Johnson for DeAndre Hopkins.

Yeah. It's highway robbery. You lost. Are you kidding me? You lost, and I don't want to defend him, but they're also not going to pay the guy $20 million for a receiver. So, I mean, if they would have gotten a first-round pick, would you? Why not?

Because they're paying Laramie Tunsell more than anything. I understand, but – And they've got to pay the quarterback it's not isn't there isn't there a pretty strong isn't there a pretty strong case that he's the best receiver in the nfl there is but there's also a pretty strong case that you've got the best receiver in the nfl and you really haven't won anything with him so it's not his fault you haven't won but that to me that tells me you've got other bigger issues than the wide receiver right and you've at least now if you had a garbage quarterback i say hey the the wide receiver is important you've got a guy who could be all world so he can make a lot

of guys better but yeah but the old adage is true in this case if you're in a deal involving the trading of a superstar and you traded the superstar you lost you lost yeah i'm sorry unless you're well that's not true for jimmy johnson jimmy johnson traded herschel walker and got an entire draft yeah that's rare that's not the rule uh well. Jimmy Johnson traded Herschel Walker and got an entire draft. Yeah, that's rare. That's not the rule. Well, who's another example of that? Like, if he would have gotten a first-round pick, would you have been okay with that? Well, it would have helped, certainly.

But honestly, I don't move DeAndre Hopkins, period. After what he's done for this franchise in the years he's been here, what he provided to Sean Watson. Look, I know that they now still have some decent talent in Fuller and Stills. And who's the guy they brought in, the guy that gets traded every year? Oh, what's his name from the Rams? Cooks. Yeah, Cooks.

Brandon Cooks. There's some talent there, but none of them are DeAndre Hopkins. No, but a lot of teams win without a DeAndre Hopkins, too. I say that, but I'm thinking about all the teams that are winning, and they all have at least one elite wide receiver. I don't care that they traded DeAndre Hopkins. What I care about is they got nothing for him. They got the equivalent of a bag of balls for him.

Well, sure, yeah. And that's my problem. If they go out and they get a first and a second for DeAndre, you go, well, you can go find a superstar. And they drafted a guy, too, so we'll see. But, yeah, there's no defending it. No, there's not. But, again, I'm not as big on DeAndre Hopkins just because he's great,

but he's been here for X amount of years, and they really haven't won anything. So if it would have led to getting more talent to make the team better, I don't know that it did that. He's also there every week. That's true. Hello, Will Fuller. They've been horribly mismanaged. Like

horrifically. Makes you miss Gary Kubiak. Now speaking of Gary Kubiak, you've got a great Kubiak story you told on the podcast. This is like a fantastic story. So tell that and then we're going to call Ben here before the end of the show as well to say hello. Stay there. To call into the HRNP listener line, dial 713-780-ESPN.

You're listening to The Josh Innes Show on ESPN 97.5. And on ESPN 97.5.com. Live from the Veritex Community Bank Studios, here's Josh Innes. And it's interesting when you look back at it, Rich, that the Gary Kubiak, at least the back half of the Gary Kubiak, or the middle of the Gary Kubiak era, was kind of the salad days for the Texans. 2011 and 2012, essentially, because 2010 was that 6-10 season where they blew all those leads. And then, of course, 2013, we don't need to go there.

And 2011, they had Wade, of course, and that's where we did the Ken's Cutting Shop show, which I think was probably the best show we've maybe ever done. It was fun. Like, how great was it that, like, I think the ninja was in there getting a haircut, and then Wade just rolls in was in there getting a haircut. And then Wade just rolls in. He's getting a haircut. Then I got a text, actually, yesterday from Ken from Ken's Cutting Shop because I was talking about them on the air.

They're awesome. And that was one of the best shows we did. No doubt. But, see, that's the thing is, like, were you still on? Yeah, you were still on the air when the Texans won nine in a row a couple years ago. Sure. Nobody seemed to care. Like, they won nine in a row, but there was no vibe.

Man, when they went 10-6 and it was next man up, the place was on fire. It was. The next year when they jumped out to the, what were they, 9-3? Or 9-2? Whatever they started out that year. The city was on fire. Like, I feel like it all died.

You know where it all died to me? Was it Monday or Sunday night football in New England with the Jackets? Like, the whole era ended almost right there. Because they still went to the playoffs, and they were 12-4. Well, but then in 2013, they started 2-0. And they had a big comeback on Monday night football against the Chargers to start the year. I mean, we all know they lost 14 in a row after starting 2-0. But at 2-0, even with Schaub throwing pick sixes,

they were 2-0. It still looked like, hey, maybe they're pretty good again. Yeah, but you look back on it now, and you kind of look back and go, that didn't suck. Now, Schaub was never going to win a Super Bowl, and we know Schaub was never going to win a Super Bowl. But there's a lot of teams that would have taken a couple of years of 10-6, 12-4, first-round playoff victories.

I mean, it's not much better than, say, the Bengals, but you beat the Bengals twice, so hey, you weren't the Bengals. And obviously it was a new experience for this franchise that had been around since 2002 and largely floundered since their beginnings. And I believe it was 2011 when we went to Chicago

for the Sunday night game. Correct. You were obviously working, and me and Jilly just went to the game. It was rainy and cold, and Jason Campbell, I think, had to come in for the Bears. And I believe you have audio somewhere of us drunkenly singing in the bar. I do. I got a video. I don't have the audio of it.

I'll show you the video. Maybe I'll try to get it over to Nick, but Ben texted it to me. So on that road trip, and Jenny actually made that trip also. She did, yeah. Like you said, very cold, rainy Sunday night at Soldier Field. Which is a dump of a stadium, by the way. It is terrible. It's uncomfortable.

Well, they tried to modernize it by keeping all the old elements, and it just looks ridiculous. It looks ridiculous, and the corridors are very tight. The seats are close. It's a bad stadium. So a very hard-fought Texans win on Sunday night football. And I believe the Texans knocked Cutler out of that game. They did, which is nothing new. Tim Dobbins, maybe?

I think so, because Cutler gets knocked out of every game, basically. Pretty much. So the game ends. Texas won the game. And I'm down on the sideline. And by the way, I'm so blessed to have spent seven years on the sideline. That was the best gig of my professional career. Despite the fact you had your Giants hats on at the radio station when we were there.

Right. Not on the sideline. But did the station, yes. So everybody is soaked to the skin that was out on the sideline for the game. We come up into the Texans' locker room after the game, and, of course, they're celebrating. They're happy. And part of my gig in those days was to go into the Texans' locker room

after the game, and I would get a one-on-one with Gary Kubiak, two and a half, three minutes at the most, that I would send immediately back to the station, and they would run it on the post-game show. I really enjoyed it. The late Bob Allen, God rest his soul, would do his one-on-one for Channel 13 and then I would do my one-on-one.

You know, TV always before radio. Of course. So in Chicago, we're soaking wet, we're cold. Gary's great as always. He does the two and a half, three minutes with me. It's great. And also part of my deal was after I got done with Gary Kubiak, I would have to go in the Texans locker room

and get two or three interviews with a few players and send that back to the postgame show as well. So I get done with Gary Kubiak, and he's got this cold, wet towel around his neck, and we're done with the interview. He takes the towel off, and he kind of looks at me and goes, there was something out there, wasn't it, Rich? I said, yeah, that was amazing. He says to me, you want to drink a beer?

That's awesome. I'm going to stop right here like I did with you on the podcast. An NFL coach has just minutes removed from a hard-fought win on the road in Chicago. Primetime. Offered to share a private beer in his office with me. There's no one else in there. Kevin Cooper was in there.

This is a choose-your-own-adventure here. What are you doing? How about a beer? I looked at him and said, I'd love to, but. Oh, God. I need to get a couple of interviews with a few of your players for the station, and I left. Oh, I got to go talk to Tim Dobbins. I've got to go out there and talk with.

You blew that one. To this day, it nauseates me to tell that story. You don't pass those opportunities up. I'll never have that opportunity again. Absolutely not. that story you don't pass those opportunities up now that that i'll never have that opportunity again absolutely not an nfl head coach just asked if i wanted to share a beer in his office with him and i said what have you what have you heard what have you heard his feelings what if what if that like he thought this was his way of saying rich and i are going to become friends after this we're going to have a beer we're going to become text buddies we're going to go fishing together that could have been your life.

Do you ever look back on that one moment and go, where my life would have gone differently had I had that beer with Gary Kubian? I don't know if there's a moment in my life I regret more. And you've had regrettable moments. We all have. There's no question. We've had many, many regrettable moments. There's no question. Just think how cool the story would have been had I had that beer or beers.

Oh, God, because you don't just drink one. And then sat here and told you about it. Instead, I said, no, I got work to do. I got to go get interviews. My God. Yeah, that's a tough one. I've asked a few other people who cover that team on a regular basis. Yep.

Coop's ever offered you a beer in his office after a game? Not one. Because he liked you. You guys could have been friends. My regrettable one that's similar, because I had to work. So the parade's happening, downtown Houston, for the World Series. And they send me down there to broadcast, right? So somehow, even though we're the flagship station,

you want to talk about a mistreated flagship station. That's one of them. I'm standing on the corner by some homeless guys doing this. There are other radio stations that are perched higher up and here I am down here. So I set up for the, uh, the, the broadcast and the Clydesdales ride by Jim's there with me, Jilly's there with me and we walk out cause our headphones aren't working. So we go just to talk to some people for a second, the Clydesdales pull up and the guy knows us from the radio he's the guy that's that's with bud and he's working the Clydesdales or whatever he says listen this these Clydesdales

were supposed to have a bunch of former players and they're just not here do you guys want to ride on the Clydesdales during the world series and I said god yes we do so Jim waddles his ass up there jilly's up there I call my boss and, listen, they want me on the Clydesdales. I will call in from the phone, but have somebody back at the studio. He goes, no, you have to be broadcasting this from this corner for this. And I was furious. I'm like, this is a once in a lifetime moment. Sure.

Like these are the Clydesdales. It's one thing if you're on like a double decker bus and it's like, hey, it's the Clydesdales. It's here thing if you're on like a double-decker bus and it's like, hey, it's the Clydesdales. It's here comes the king. It's everything. It's all – they had a Dalmatian there and the guys in the hats and the green pants. And I could have done it and I wanted to do it, but Jim and Jilly did, right? So as they're going down, you see all these buses pass and there's like double-decker buses, people waving. The Clydesdales come by and according to Jim and Jilly,

it was just a bunch of people going, Jim Mudd! Jilly! Where's Josh? He's over here having the feed drop every five minutes, trying to fight off homeless people to call the parade like I'm some dope on the local news. And like my Kubiak story, you'll never get that chance again. That will never happen again. What are the odds that, yeah, Lance Berkman's supposed to be here,

but, yeah, you know what? You guys hop on because someone needs to be on the Clydesdales. Two dopes, Jim and Jilly, on the Clydesdales. And, like, the funny part is, so David Nuno, who's a very nice guy, but David, every time I'd ask him to do something on the show, he'd be like, no, I can't for whatever reason. I don't know what it was, but he couldn't do it. So he's out there broadcasting live.

Jim and Jilly come by on the Clydesdales, and Nuno's like, is that Jim Mudd and Jilly just on the Clydesdales? I would give my left nut to have that opportunity again. That's an opportunity you don't get. When I tell you that I was miserable, now I sold it on the air like, oh boy, this is the greatest moment in the history of the city. And after the hurricane, deep down I'm festering like, you bastards, who gets this opportunity to be on the Clydesdale? And my dopey wife and my dopey producer up there waving to people, and I'm just standing there fighting off the hobos. Nearly three years later, that moment doesn't feel as golden as it did that day.

No, it does not. later that moment doesn't feel as golden as it did that day no it does not no it doesn't you know how much i regret not being on the air when the sign stealing scandal broke oh i bet that one i mean come on let's face it yeah that's the that's the kind of material people in our business pray at night to have to talk about on their shows on a scale of one to ten as we go into break here scale of one 10, how much do you think that affects or impacts how you feel about that World Series win? How I feel? Yeah, you personally. Scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most negative, like it's tainted, it doesn't matter.

1 being doesn't matter. It's about a 4 for me. Yeah, I think that's fair. It's not overwhelming for me, but I think the public perception is a much higher number. It won't bother you until some dope goes, it didn count it's tainted then you go screw you i mean they had the best team in baseball the one i'm mad at is aj hinch i think aj hinch is a dope that could have brought all of it to an end and i would never hire that guy for a job ever he could have shut that thing down and this wouldn't even been an issue but instead he beat up some tvs way to go

ike turner you're awesome monumentally stupid all right so we'll check in with Ben Nance here in a second, the original producer of the J&R Show, and we'll wrap things up when we come back. ESPN. 97.5. You're listening to The Josh Innes Show on ESPN 97.5. And on ESPN 97.5.com. Live from the Veritex Community Bank Studios, here's Josh Innes. All right, wrapping things up today.

Two hours does go by fast when you're used. We did five when we first started doing that show. For, I believe, 16 months. We did that for 16 months? I counted every day. And at one point, they were like, why don't we just replay some stuff in the six? And I'm like, no, we are radio professionals. Five hours on the air, you basically come out on your hands and knees every day.

You're like, this is terrible. But Ben Nance was there for most of those. Ben, of course, was the producer of the original. He was the first of three producers of the JNR show. There was him, then John Cascio, who might have only been there for 10 minutes, and then Jim. But Ben is here now from Chicago. By the way, Ben has like a mansion he lives in now. It is not a mansion.

It is totally a mansion. So he and his wife moved out of their— The lovely Lisa. Yes. Now, they had a very out of their... The lovely Lisa. Yes. Now, they had a very nice apartment in downtown Chicago. Right. It's so nice, in fact, that the rioters went and looted the whole shopping center under it a couple of days ago. Didn't they occasionally lock themselves out of that apartment?

Oh, they've done some things. We did. So Ben, though, I see these pictures. They've moved out to kind of the burbs in Chicago. He's got a basketball goal and an above-ground swimming pool. Is that a hoops goal? It's a nice goal and a swimming pool, and we now have 3,500 square feet. Look at you.

And let me tell you something. And my hoops basketball goals and sporting equipment reference just went right past both of you guys. No, I got it. That's a typical Rich thing, always working in the sponsor. and sporting equipment reference just went right past both of you guys. No, I got it. That's a typical Rich thing, always working in the sponsor. Now, here's the thing, though. So this above-ground pool, that's like a status symbol in Chicago. Like, that's a symbol of power. When you've got an above-ground swimming pool in Chicago,

you're like the elite. Power? Oh, that's power. You've got an above-ground swimming pool and a basketball goal and 3,500 square feet. But Ben is here. Ben, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you, Rich Lord, here?

I am well. I'm gainfully unemployed. So am I. So am I. Wait, you're unemployed? What the hell? Yep. Well, I lost it with the corona and all that.

Oh, man. What about Lisa? Is she still working? Oh, yeah. She's still working. She's at the NBC station here in Chicago. Very nice. So Ben plays a lot of Xbox, and now he's just got more space to play a lot of Xbox.

He's not cramped up in a tiny apartment now when Lisa's at work. I didn't know this. So did Lisa, because she was covering the riots in Chicago and the protests and the looting and all that, but she wasn't supposed to be on the air, right? But then they brought her in. No, she was supposed to be on the air, but they put her right in the middle of it, and they gave her a security guard who was armed with a gun because it was super dangerous. Whoa.

I mean, she's out there doing work is what she's doing. And we're sitting here just like, hey, remember that time we yelled at each other on the radio? She's like, well, my security guard has a gun during these rides so but ben was there from i want to say we started in in 11 or at the end of 10 right it was 2010 december late in late in the football season in 2010 the first day of the show was the day after the texans blew a game to the ravens on monday night football it was a pick six and overtime from matt shaw for one segment it was known as innocent rich oh and the thing is we never agreed with that like we didn't but i talked i was trying to take the same kind of

sound as this radio station had in boston it was a show called toucher and rich and i was like i think this works so innocent rich and i said it one segment and the segment ends we're sitting at the house of blues and you go listen you you can do whatever the hell you want but this ain't innocent rich and it ain this ain't innocent rich and it ain't gonna be innocent rich and i was like what we have done is we have set a tempo now we have a we have we have set this now we so when i think i looked at you and said i never agreed to that i did not agree to this which is kind of a microcosm of the whole jay and ark show in general it definitely set the tone it did it was a tone setter but when you look back what did what do

you take away? What was the biggest blow up or altercation or fight that you recall from that? Oh, my God. Well, I mean, there's so many of them. But, I mean, you guys said on a couple of them I was listening earlier. But, obviously, the Frank Caliendo thing was just an utter disaster. And I got stuck on the other end of it in the producer room. They gave me the PR guy who's sitting there listening to you two go back and forth.

Josh tells me on air, hey, call my dad. Rich tells me in my ear, don't call his dad. And I'm like, I'm like, I don't know what to do here. And the PR guy is like,

is this how they always are? And I'm like, yep, well, that's exactly how they always are? And I'm like, yep, well, that's exactly how they always are. I think the worst fight was in Gavin's office. Which one was that? Because we did have a fight in the other dopey program director's office. What was that dude's name that's now in the quad?

I'm not going to call Ryan dopey. Well, I will. That's your word. The time that he – you were already gone at this time, Ben. But when we finally decided that I was going to leave, there was still like five months or so left that I had to work there. And I recall you just ripping me like, why are you blowing – why are you going to end this? Why is this going to – you were ticked off at me. And eventually Ryan just got angry and he said, Josh, because I want to do my own shows.

Can I do my own thing? Put me on a different show. And he goes, we're choosing Rich over you. And I said, fair enough. Fine with me. And that was our life. And then Rich got his comeuppance because they chose Sean. Correct.

It all comes back around. Absolutely accurate. But we had, like, there were big blowups. There were good times, though, too. And the real hard part was, like, I mean, like, there were big blowups. There were good times though, too. I mean, and the real hard part was like, I mean, like you would go to the bathroom and rich would be like, man, working with Josh is just a pain in the ass. And then, you know, rich would go to the bathroom and Josh would be like, Oh, rich,

I don't know if this is going to work out. I'm like, and then Gavin would talk to me and say, can't you make it work with those two? And I'm like, I can't do anything. Like I can do. I don't even remember what the argument was, but there was a post-show meeting in Gavin's office where I feel like it was the closest we ever came to blows. Which neither one of us is ever going to punch anybody, but yeah.

No, you're right. But, I mean, that was, you know, basically we were screaming at the top of our lungs, and Gavin just said, okay, okay, okay, okay, you guys need to just go home, go home. But isn't that kind of what made the show so good, though? I mean, as much as you did get along, it was, like, you know, on point. But when you didn't get along, it was ugly, but it was also very listenable.

Well, I guess. Or maybe it was just everything else in town sucked. I don't know. Like, I wonder these things. I often wonder, was that show even any good, or was everything else so bad? But, no, we had uh there were moments there were i remember i remember when we did that uh hottest media woman tournament that was that was controversial now if we would do that today we would have all been fired within 10

minutes but you're oh yeah well remember this we did the bracket it was the hottest local media women some of these ladies locally let's just tell you how different the world was at the time they were calling up like like like campaigning to win yep like some of these ladies locally, let's just tell you how different the world was at the time, they were calling up, campaigning to win. Some of these local news chicks were like, well, how am I only an 11th seed or whatever? The world was a completely different place all of eight years ago. And they accused me of tampering with the results. They did. It was a really screwy situation.

But we always got ourselves into mischief that's i don't know if you recall this but my top choice back then still has mad game as we speak who's that jessica willie look at you mad game now oh god do you remember we also wore i went to do something with a sponsor that lasers hair off of your body and they gave me two fake boobs like yeah yeah well that was the chick that waxed me that was oh i was thinking full body like this was a place that like did like a laser neck hair oh okay okay so but that they were like a cosmetic surgery place so they showed me the difference between a silicone and a saline breast so i took both of

them i'm like this sounds like a bit we could do today so i bought a sports bra and i had me and ben put on sports bras and put in the silicone and the saline. And I walked around the office asking people to tell me which one was saline and which one was silicone. So you're saying those boobs aren't real? No, and they're a lot smaller than they used to be. I've lost like 30 pounds. Thank you very much. You even took it to the big boss's office and he was not pleased with you.

No, but he squeezed. He did squeeze. He squeezed. So it's a different world, man and he was not pleased with you. No, but he squeezed. He did squeeze. He squeezed. So it's a different world, man. It was a different world back then, dude. What was your favorite moment working on the JNR show? Oh, man, I don't know. I mean, like I said, probably the Caliendo thing, but just, you know, the Cardinals jersey thing also.

You guys just fighting in general. There was so much of it. But, you know, when you took off your shirt and just threw it against the wall and stormed out in the hallway. And you're sitting there, you know, shirtless with your man cans hanging out. I mean, and me and Richard just looking at each other like, what in the? I think I took the jersey and like threw it. Then I threw it in the garbage. Like, is this what you want?

I will tell you that one of the times I was probably pissed off as much as any time was when you guys thought it would be funny to not be there when the show started oh yes hey let's see what rich does if we're not there at two o'clock oh yeah it was not good no it was not again you know it was it was one of my typical kind of passive aggressive like oh because I think the day before you might have been late there's like two minutes late or something okay and that had to have been why i did that it probably wasn't because i was like just being an a-hole i was like all right let's see how this works see how you like it chief and uh and we came in late and that did not end well didn't go over well but it was it was a wild ride for such a short-lived radio show yes it had the same

amount of drama as shows that have been around together for 25 years yep now like an old married couple how come i gotta ask you this josh it's probably because you were so pissed off with me at the time but how come you no showed at ben's little uh going away thing we did at ermis yes i first of all i don't even remember that i honestly don't but i truly i don't but it was probably because i was mad that ben was leaving and his wife, who wasn't his wife at the time, but she hated me. And she hated me so much that when I went to the wedding, Jilly was in the wedding and I wasn't in the wedding. So I just sat at a bar during the ceremony and got hammered while they got – You blew off the ceremony?

Oh, I was there. It was in a facility at the Navy Pier in Chicago. Yeah, yeah. So there was a place in the middle, like an atrium, but right next to it was a Mexican restaurant with a bar. So I just sat at the Mexican restaurant in the bar. To be fair, they almost got not married that day. Uh,

cause there was a giant fight on a bus and I watched it. And then your wife blamed me for that too. Your wife blamed me for all of the issues. I'm the least of your issues. You've got tons of deadbeat friends, and I was the biggest issue? You guys are still friends? Oh, God, yeah. Well, barely.

No, but then, like, and I held that against him forever. Like, oh, we're friends, but I'm not in your wedding. I'm not kidding. Like, every single time since we've hung out, like, outside of that, since then, probably, like, ten times, you've left, like, eight times. Yes. Angrily. I'm like, I'm out of here.

But in fairness, now his wife, Lisa, likes me, I think. No, she loves you now. It's bizarre. But back then, like me and you, Rich, we hated each other. Now we like each other. But you know what, Josh? What? And Ben, I think you'll be with me on this.

You have changed. Yes. You have changed. Oh, well, I guess. You have grown up. You have matured. Yeah. I would agree with that. When you get fired and you're out of work for 16 months, it's a time to reflect.

Maybe you'll mature a little bit now. Maybe Rich will mature a little bit now that he's been out of it for 11 months. No, you're easier to like now than you used to be. Thank you. I appreciate that. And so are you. You were a lot to work with back then, but now you have changed. I agree with Rich.

Well, there we go. Now that we've had therapy, we've got to go because they're playing us off here because fred and aj have to get in but we love you we'll see you go hang out with jenny lord come on go watch cuomo see you later do it that's uh ben nance everybody who used to produce the show great dude yes he is well this was fun i it flew by so that's the best indication that we had a good time. Absolutely. Of course, thanks to all the people that watched on Twitch. There was a big number of people watching on Twitch today,

and you can follow that Twitch and everything else. And who knows? Maybe we'll do it again. I would love that. I need you to dispose of your microphone condom, though. I can do that. You need to do that because Fred's not going to like that there. Josh, I'll be here anytime.

Say the word. Absolutely, man. Thank you, Nick. All right. We'll be out of here now, but Fred and AJ are on the way with the Blitz. Be good. I got my eyes wide open.

Whoa, I got my eyes wide open. Whoa, you got your big cheese. I got my eyes wide open. ESPN 97.5