The Josh Innes Show - Point Shaving In College Basketball

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

Well, Hysier Miller, formerly of the Temple Owls Basketball Team, is under federal investigation for shaving points. Essentially, this dude is alleged to have bet on games in which he played. The story is somewhat interesting. I am shocked this doesn't happen more often. It probably does. We just don't hear about it. In the coming years, I think this will be a larger issue. Also, I throw out some point shaving documentary recommendations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Battle of Ontario is on, and FanDuel's your home for live betting the series. With features like live SGPs, build a parlay any game, any period. Or stack multiple matchups onto one slip with Same Game Parlay Plus. What's better than playoff hockey? Overtime playoff hockey. Get more from the game with live overtime markets. Download FanDuel today and get more with North America's number one sportsbook. Please play responsibly. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. The following was recorded from inside an ice plunge.

Ah! Woo! Okay. All right. When a core's life is cold enough, the mountains on the can turn blue. So the next time you want a cold lager, cold filter, cold package, Coors Light. Just wait until those glorious mountains on the can turn blue. It's easy to say that fast when you're freezing cold.

The new BMO VI Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks. More points. More flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. And then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO VI Porter MasterCard. And get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months.

Terms and conditions apply. Visit bmo.com slash theiporter to learn more. Are you a forward thinker? Then you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do. Workday is the AI platform that helps propel your organization, your workforce, and your industry into the future. Workday, moving business forever forward. All right, so I find this story to be interesting because I love stories about gambling.

And as you know, I appreciate gambling, sports betting. I don't really gamble on other things. Although I've taken to buying scratch-offs lately, as we discussed yesterday. Bought 15 $2 scratchers of the same one, thinking that maybe it would up my chances of winning. I spent $30 on these goddamn things and only made six of it back. So I'm 24 in the hole. Scratchers are not for me. And I blame my damn degenerate grandma for turning me into this.

But we always talk about gambling on the show. We talk about sports betting. Hell, here in a few minutes, we're going to leave, go over to Illinois, put in our Thursday night football bets. So you know that I'm all about sports betting. I'm all about the legalization of sports betting, but I'm all about the legalization of all vices. I think that drugs should be legal and booze should be legal, which it already is. And there shouldn't be a goddamn speed limit. Freedom, goddammit, freedom. That's what I'm here for. But that said, when you have sports betting as available as it is now, unlike it used to be, or back in the day when you had to meet up with some slimy ass dude who had a little flip pad and he would write down your bet and take your cash or whatever, or you'd

have to go to Vegas. Now it's obviously easy enough to do it on your phone. You can get the FanDuel app, the DraftKings app, the Circa app. Hell, Fanatics, the apparel brand, apparently has a sportsbook. Barstool does or did have a sportsbook. I mean, everybody's got a sportsbook. It's very mainstream. You see lines and point spreads on every game you watch.

Like, I watch the Memphis Grizzlies. They build a parlay for you. The announcers, the pregame hosts build a parlay for you the announcers the pre-game hosts build a parlay for you before the game like hey take jaron jackson jr to have two blocks and desmond bain to hit three threes and the money line for the grizz tonight that's plus 500 they do it on tnt they do it everywhere so it's very mainstream it's not you know i mean 10 15 years ago it was very kind of shady now it's not so it's very easy to access. It's very easy to do.

Everyone's doing it. My sister is doing it. My sister. Like, I feel like a piece of shit for turning my sister onto doing this. But then again, it's such a fun thing to do. And I don't think she's dumb like me and gambled her whole life away. So she's fine. Now, that said, when you do have gambling and sports betting so out there and open and everybody can do it and it's in your face, it makes it very ripe for people to try to take advantage of it and defraud it or shave points, as it were.

And I have a story here that is very intriguing because I'm shocked we don't see more of this. Like, let's rewind a little bit if you'll recall uh kashon butte who was a wide receiver for lsu and is now with uh the patriots this dude placed like thousands of bets illegally on his fan duel account he wasn't of age to do it and he was like betting on games he played in i believe in everything like this guy at lsu was doing it and i wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot more people doing this. How many thousands of college athletes are there and pro athletes are there that have access to this? I mean, you saw, what's his name? Calvin Ridley got suspended for a year for making bets from the team facility, which is a really dumb thing to do. But, you know, whatever.

Maybe find someone to do it for you. Get like your brother or not even your brother. You've got to find like a total outlier. You have to find somebody you randomly meet at a bar, but then you got to be able to trust the person. That's the thing about committing a crime or scheming or cheating or whatever. You have to find someone who can't be traced back to you and someone you can trust. How do you trust someone to help you defraud FanDuel? It's a tough thing to do. Really, a lot of these guys are just stupid. But this story is interesting because it involves a guy being investigated for point shaving. This is federal

shit. Now, if you want to find a couple interesting 30 for 30 documentaries, there are, I think, two that are point shaving related, or at least one. I think one's a 30 for 30, and it's about the point shaving at Boston College. And this involved the mob. Like, bro, you didn't want to get involved with this shit like back in the 70s. Now if you shave points, you're pretty much doing it for yourself because you can go to the FanDuel app and you can see, all right, I'm the best player on the team.

We're favored by 20. I can do the best I can to make sure we ain't winning by 20. Like, that's easy to do. Now, it could be traced back to you as it's going to be with this guy, and you might screw yourself, but it's a lot easier than having to meet up with some shady guido who's like, well, you know, the mob wants to, you know, put $100,000 on this game,

and if you fuck it up, they're going to kill you. So if you've never seen the one about Boston College, I forgot what it's called, but it's a 30 for 30 that's about Boston College. And that involves, what's his name from Goodfellas? He was involved in that too. So that was an interesting one. There's also an HBO sports documentary about the City College of New York back in the 50s, I think it was, like back when college basketball for the City College of New York was in its heyday. And they were involved in a point shaving scandal as well. And that was called City Dump,

I believe is the name of that one. And I don't know where this one was, if it was an ESPN documentary or what, but there was one about the Arizona State point shaving that happened in the early 90s with the basketball team. Another one, and this isn't a documentary, I don't think, but there was one about Hot Rod Williams at Tulane who was getting like shoeboxes. Was he involved in a point shaving or was this getting paid? I think there was a Tulane point shaving scandal as well. These things fascinate me. But now you don't need to have that other person. You don't need to have the shady guido that's taking the bet. And if you don't hold up your end of the bargain, you'd lose a toe. Because in a lot of these stories, you get the guy from the big boss, the guy's way up top,

are going to bet $100,000 on the spread. And then what happens after that? They give you a tiny little cut of it. You're the guy out there putting out all the risk. You're the guy who, if you get caught, you're never going to play basketball again. And you end up getting five grand or something, which to a college kid in the 70s is a lot of money. But these dudes are winning 50, 60, 70, 100 grand a game on some of these. So again, watch the documentaries about point shaving back when point shaving was really point shaving, not like it is now. You would, I tell you this as a friend, they're all fascinating stories. There was another one. Was it the one about, was it, God, there was one that we just recently watched.

I think it might have been the Arizona State one. I think it was the Arizona State point shaving that was really interesting. God, but where did we see that? I want to say that there might have been like a documentary series about four or five different issues that people have with point shaving might have been on showtime i forgot where it was but it was really fascinating and like how the guy eventually got caught and like how much money they were making initially because like they would have to go like back in the day see now you could just go to fanduel you put in a bet you just can't make it obvious and put like $100,000 on this random basketball game.

But these guys would have to bounce from casino to casino to casino to casino to get all their money put in. Look, it's fascinating shit. Point shaving, particularly old school 70s, 80s, 60s, 50s point shaving. Very fascinating. But let me get into this actual story that's happening now. But first, let me play a couple commercials for you so I can make $3 doing this today. All right, if you're ready to win some real cash during the basketball playoffs, you got to check out Pick 6 from DraftKings. When it comes to basketball payouts, DraftKings Pick 6 posterizes

the competition, including prize picks. It's a very simple concept. Hit all your picks and score higher minimum payouts on Pick 6, plus even more cash if you outscore the competition. Pick 6 is available in most states, including Missouri, California, Texas, Georgia, and more, and I absolutely love it. Look, every night we're going to be having playoff basketball every night. So when you're sitting around and you might not have interest in a particular game, let's say you're a fan of a particular team. They're not playing that night. Here's how you make it a little bit more fun for the other games. Build a little lineup there with pick six. It's really great. Me and my wife do it all the time, so make sure you do it. And new players get 50 in Pick 6 credits instantly on just a $5 entry.

Download the DraftKings Pick 6 app now and use code INNES, that's my name, I-N-N-E-S, for new customers to play. $5, get 50 in Pick 6 credits, Better payouts, bigger wins. Only with Pick 6 from DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Help is available for problem gambling.

Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org in Connecticut. Must be 18+. Age and eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction. Pick 6 not available everywhere, including New York and Ontario. Void where prohibited. One per new customer. Bonus award. It is non-withdrawable pick six credits that expire in 14 days. Limited time offer.

See terms at picksix.draftkings.com slash promos. What matters most to you? Is it unforgettable adventures, connections with lifelong friends, peaceful moments of reflection, feelings of joy and freedom you can't wait to experience again and again?

Or is it the vehicles that help you make all those special moments possible? Whatever your answer is, Toyota is here to bring you closer to the things that matter to you. Because they matter to us too. Toyota. For what matters most.

Craving an escape? Bring the vibrant flavors of Mexican street eat energy to life in your kitchen with Tia Rosa Tortillas. Born in Mexico, Tia Rosa knows how to turn your next taco night at home into the real deal. Find Tia Rosa Tortillas at select grocery stores and get the good vibes going. Tia Rosa, Tia Rosa. All right, now this point shaving comes to us from Temple University. That's right. Temple University. Heiser, Heiser, Heiser Miller, who apparently was the best player on the Tulane basketball team, not Tulane, the Temple basketball team. Both are smart schools.

Let me break down this story for you. This is fascinating. So former Temple guard Heiser Miller is the subject of a federal investigation as authorities allege he engaged in point shaving during his time with the Owls, according to Pete Thamel and David Purdom of ESPN. According to the report, Miller bet on his own games and knowingly manipulated the outcome of games he participated in. The investigation began around Temple's March 7th game against UAB. The Blazers opened as a two-point favorite against the Owls, but on the day of the game, the line moved to UAB being an eight point favorite. Such significant movement on a betting line is incredibly rare on a game day, barring a late developing injury or suspension. Thomas Gable, the head of the sports book at the

Borgata Casino in Las Vegas, I have been to the Borgata in Atlantic City many times, I watched a man poop on the floor. Or I don't know if he actually pooped on the floor. I think he had like a bag that had poop in it and the poop fell out. That was a day. He told ESPN that he started moving the line after a number of limit bets or the maximum bets allowed for a single event were placed on UAB that day. Gable said he expected to see news of an injury or suspension, but was surprised to note that the bets on the Blazers continued to come in even after the line had been moved the Borgata and several casinos stopped taking bets on the game as a result and alerted authorities to the unusual activity so this dude played for Temple they're playing UAB UAB is a two-point favorite against Temple so that means this guy

that played for Temple and was their best player took the other team who was favored. Usually in situations like this, it's your team that's favored and you can throw the game and still win it, basically, right? Like your team, and that's how a lot of these guys justify it to themselves. They say, well, you know, we still won the game. Who cares if we made a couple of bucks uh like that scene in blue chips whenever uh whenever pete bell is talking to his boy tony he goes to the party after uh happy told him that he was uh that he bought one of his players and told him the date of it and then coach pete bell goes and watches the tape and he sees he's like shit he threw the

game then he goes to the frat party he's like did you take money did you shave point no coach absolutely not no and he goes don't you like about just once we still won the damn game man that anybody blue chips so anyway let me continue so the unusual activity uab ultimately won the game 100 to 72 and miller scored eight points on three of nine shooting with three turnovers bookmakers then noticed that uh on that uh on the same accounts who were placing bets on UAB to win the game had wagered on multiple other Owls games during the 2023-2024 season, with a particular focus on bets on first half scores and the results of first half of games. Temple had a down year last year, going 12-19 in the regular season, but made a surprise run to the american conference title game where they lost to uab miller was a key contributor to that run

averaging 27.8 points a game well above the season marks of 15.8 and four assists he transferred to virginia tech this offseason but was dismissed by the hokies late last month due to circumstances prior to his enrollment at virginia tech hyzer Miller has become more adversity, has overcome more adversity in his 22 years than most face in their lifetime, Miller's attorney says. He will meet and overcome whatever obstacles lay ahead. So that's the story. Here's what's weird about that to me. What's weird is that you've got a guy taking bets when his team is the underdog. Usually when you get these kinds of stories, you're up big, you're like a 17 point favorite. You're the really good team. You're facing a crappy team. And you know, you take them to cover the 20 point spread

and you still win by 18 and everybody's fine. It's a risk in a situation like that to take it when it's, you're not really in control you can't control whether or not the other team makes shots you can control whether or not you're making a bad pass and you can control whether or not you're scoring but controlling whether or not a team wins it's interesting and apparently he was taking them to win the uh he was taking them i guess minus two in that situation he He took UAB minus two. I don't know. It's weird.

I kind of find it strange to bet on the other team. But then again, when I go to the Pete Rose conversation, people always say that Pete Rose never bet against his own team. Well, but Pete Rose had control over what the Cincinnati Reds did. He didn't have control over anything the Cardinals did or the Phillies did or the Braves did. He only had control over the Reds. So he could control the lineup. He could control what the other side did. He could control what his guys did. He could control pitching changes. He can control the lineup. So it'd be weird to me that he would never bet on his team, especially if he really had to win a fucking game and have to pay some dudes back.

Like you could sit there and rah-rah your dudes all you want. It ain't going to make them go out and play any better. It ain't going to make them go out and win more games. I mean, they still have to be the talented team, and the talented team has to go out there and win. So it's interesting. Now I want to go back and watch this game like I'm in blue chips. I want to go back, and I don't know why i want to punish myself this way but i want to watch march 7th uab versus temple and i want to see what like what happened in this game

that made it obvious now on the other hand maybe he just knew his team fucking sucked and they were going to get their asses kicked anyway maybe he knew something about somebody else on the team maybe he knew that one of his boys was having girlfriend problems. Maybe he knew that his buddy had gout and wasn't going to be able to play well, and this is things that other people didn't know. I'm shocked that we don't see more of this, particularly with college dudes. Pro dudes, I mean, they're already making millions of dollars anyway, but if you're a college dude, and I'm not talking like high-end college dudes who get big NIL deals and go to Duke or Carolina or LSU or Florida and you're getting paid a bunch of money to go play at these schools or you got big endorsement deals where

you've got something to lose. I'm talking about dudes that are the number one player at Temple and no one gives a shit. If you're in that or you're a guy that plays at Drake or Drexel or Illinois State or UNI or something, there's incentive for you, when you're not making a ton of cash, to just kind of go in and even bet on yourself, and you could probably justify it. Like, we can easily justify things like this to ourselves. Like, you could look at that and go,

all right, I'm taking us to win. It's a few bucks. Who cares? Or how do we know that these dudes aren't already feeding information to their buddies anyway or feeding like to their roommate now again you could trace back to that and you don't want that like and obviously if you're telling your family members to bet something and then they bet it it can be traced back to you basically the key in all of this is to not make it so large and such an odd bet that you draw attention. That's easier said than done.

But that's basically the art of this. If you're going to do it, like you read in that story, they thought it was very odd that so many bets were coming in or this big, giant-ass bet came in this one way that they had to shift a two-point line and make it an eight-point line. You know? So you'd have to go in and just keep making little bets. Tell your buddies like, all right, go bet $200 on UAB. Now, you don't make as much money that way, but they're not going to flag you and think, well, that's strange that somebody made a $200 bet on UAB in that situation. Now, when you're putting 10 grand on UAB or 50 grand on UAB or five grand even on UAB, that makes it strange. And people go, huh, that's interesting. Let's pay more attention to this. Let's flag this. So now this guy is under an investigation.

I don't know. I just find these stories to be fascinating. And I think you're going to see more of this because why wouldn't you? Again, you're an 18 year old dude, 19 year old dude. You ain't got a lot of cash. You're in college. It seems easy. You have inside information. Everybody thinks they know everything there is about sports. So you want to go out and bet on it.

I think there's a, we're going to see more of these kinds of stories come out, especially at places again, like a temple where, well, temples, you know, not a throwaway school. It ain't like it was when John Chaney was there. It's not some big deal. So when you look at more schools like that, it's not going to be shocking when you start seeing more stories like that come out. So I don't know. I'm intrigued by these things and I'm curious. And as I told you, make sure you check out some of these docs if you've never watched them. Because a lot of you listening may not care about sports betting, but you might like True Crime.

And that's what you get out of these sports betting documentaries is they're really cool true crime stories. I got to find the names of them. And if you really want to go, hey, Matthew McConaughey was in a movie called Two for the Money with Al Pacino. That's kind of what really turned me on to sports betting, which is strange, but I was like so turned on by the idea of betting on sports after I watched that movie. It's called Two for the Money. It's

not a documentary, but it is about a guy named Brandon Lang, who I think still might be a tout. I don't know, but you can check that out as well. But anywho, I love you guys. We'll talk soon.