The Josh Innes Show - The NBA and MLB Don't Get It

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

I saw that Adam Silver is toying with the idea of shortening NBA games. These league commissioners don't seem to understand that the issue isn't the amount of time we are invested.. Baseball has the same problems. We as fans need the games to matter more. How can we make games matter more? I think I have a solution. Is it possible that there is no solution? Maybe people just like football more and the other leagues will never compete. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Battle of Ontario is on, and FanDuel's your home for live betting the series. With features like live SGPs, build a parlay any game, any period. Or stack multiple matchups onto one slip with Same Game Parlay Plus. What's better than playoff hockey? Overtime playoff hockey. Get more from the game with live overtime markets. Download FanDuel today and get more with North America's number one sportsbook. Please play responsibly. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. The following was recorded from inside an ice plunge.

Ah! Woo! Okay. All right. When a core's life is cold enough, the mountains on the can turn blue. So the next time you want a cold lager, cold filter, cold package, Coors Light. Just wait until those glorious mountains on the can turn blue. It's easy to say that fast when you're freezing cold.

Spring is here and you can now get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? You can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered. Sunshine? No. Some wine? Yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. See app for details.

Do you eat food? Three times the points. Do you go anywhere? Three times the points. Do you stream stuff? Three times the points at grocery stores and restaurants, as well as on gas, EV charging, daily transit, streaming services, digital gaming, and more. All the time.

Get the RBC ION Plus Visa. Conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash ioncards. So I was reading yesterday that the commissioner of the NBA, a very sickly skinny man by the name of Adam Silver, believes that the NBA would benefit greatly from reducing the length of quarters to 10 minutes. Why would this be beneficial according to Adam Silver? Because it would make it a nice tight little compact two-hour window of basketball and that fits people's viewing habits and viewing tendencies more than a two and a half, two hour and 40 minute basketball game. Soccer does it. Soccer actually does it extremely well, but soccer is also not like the

most viewed sport in America by any means. It's a 90-minute sport. Clock runs the whole time. Accept it to halftime. They make up the time. I think soccer... Honestly, I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that I watch a shit ton of soccer all the time. But it is a pretty solid way of doing things.

You can question whether or not the sports are interesting or not, and that's totally fine. Some people love it. Some people don't. But I like the way it works. There's not a ton of commercials, but the NBA can't do that. The NBA can't operate in a world where there aren't a ton of commercials because they need a ton of commercials. That's how they make their money. So of course we're not going to find ourselves in a situation where there's fewer commercials and more action. But to Adam Silver, his point, which is, well, we need to kind of tighten the game up and make it a nice compact two-hour window. Adam Silver is falling into the same trap that the baseball commissioners are falling into and the baseball owners and commissioner

falling into. They are of the belief that somehow altering the actual core of the game itself, the structure of the game itself is going to benefit the game. And it doesn't like, let's look at baseball for a second. I don't believe that the game of baseball is made better by the pitch clock. Do I think it hurts? No. Does it make the game shorter? Sure. Now baseball was different than the NBA because there is no clock. So a baseball game could go four hours. But I don't think people care if a game is four hours as long as the game is interesting. Baseball's biggest issue is not the amount of time it takes to play the game or the number of innings it takes to play the game. The biggest issue baseball faces

in terms of the on-field product is whether or not the game is interesting or exciting. And the game is not interesting and exciting a lot of the time. It's just sort of a wallpaper in the background. Game doesn't really matter. It's the middle of May. It's just kind of there. That's what baseball has always been. Baseball has been a background sport for mowing the lawn, cooking dinner, going to pick up the kids at ballet. Baseball is in the background, and that's what's good about baseball. Actually, I think speeding up the game hurts baseball to a degree because before you – like I used to – one thing I loved about baseball,

and I didn't watch every pitch of every baseball game because there's no reason to. Not every pitch matters. But you'd watch the beginning, then you'd kind of flip back, check the score, go back to Grey's Anatomy, then come back in the ninth inning if it's close, or if you had to go make a run to Dairy Queen, you'd turn the game on the radio. I enjoyed that on a given night, you knew that you were getting 245 to three and a half hours

of just baseball being there, and I kind of enjoyed knowing it was there. What baseball did and hurt itself is baseball decided that it wasn't the action that was the problem. It was the amount of time that people are dedicating to watching the game that is the problem. The length of the event is the problem, still a boring sport it is a slow sport it is a home run walk sport uh it is a strikeout home run walk sport you don't steal a lot of bases you're not seeing guys flying around the bases like it's whitey ball in the 80s you don't get that anymore and for me i find that to be boring dudes standing around pulling their pud like like the best players in baseball are going to like do something impactful for like 40 seconds a game. Like in the field, like even the best defensive player in baseball might make one play a game. And a lot of times, especially if you're like an outfielder, you may just stand

around and do nothing for the entire time you're out there. And you'll be at the plate for about a grand total of four minutes or something like that. And that's why I'm a big proponent of the idea of the golden at bat rule, because why not? Why not have an opportunity to see your best player come to the plate in crunch time with the game on the line? I think that would make the game far more interesting and better. But baseball made the mistake of thinking that the length of the game was the biggest issue. A four-hour baseball game isn't a problem because that doesn't happen that often anyway. Most of the time, your games are going to be somewhere around two hours and 45 minutes, three hours. Pitch clock doesn't really bother me all that much. I'm fine with it. But the idea that baseball's biggest problem was the length of

the game is what bothered me. Make the game more interesting, make it more compelling, make it more fun. And I think a thing like the Golden Bat would do that. I know you don't want to just strip away the core of what makes baseball baseball and you're never going to do certain wacky things. So fine. But I'm not against trying new things to make baseball more interesting because the alternative is you become less valuable and less interesting and people care less. Then you throw in the fact that you're about to hit an era of baseball where there's like four teams that can compete and everybody else is going to be just null and void, and that's going to be no good either.

So baseball's in a lot of trouble. But then you go back to the NBA. Before we do that, let's play a couple commercials here. All right, if you're ready to win some real cash during the basketball playoffs, you've got to check out Pick 6 from DraftKings. When it comes to basketball payouts, DraftKings Pick 6 posterizes the competition, including price picks. It's a very simple concept. Hit all your picks and score higher minimum payouts on Pick 6, plus even more cash if you outscore the competition.

Pick 6 is available in most states, including Missouri, California, Texas, Georgia, and more. And I absolutely love it. Look, every night we're going to be having playoff basketball every night. So when you're sitting around and you might not have interest in a particular game, let's say you're a fan of a particular team. They're not playing that night. Here's how you make it a little bit more fun for the other games. Build a little lineup there with Pick 6. It's really great. Me and my wife do it all the time, so make sure you do it. And new players get 50 in Pick 6 credits instantly on just a $5 entry. Download the DraftKings Pick 6 app now and use code INNES, that's my name, I-N-N-E-S, for new customers to play.

$5, get 50 in pick six credits. Better payouts, bigger wins, only with pick six from DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org in Connecticut. Must be 18 plus. Age and eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction. Pick six not available everywhere, including New York and Ontario. Voidware prohibited.

One per new customer. Bonus award. It is non-withdrawable pick six credits that expire in 14 days. Limited time offer. See terms at pick6.draftkings.com slash promos. Your business doesn't move in a straight line. Some days bring growth, others bring challenges. But what if you or a partner needs to step away? When the unexpected happens, count on Canada Life's flexible life and health insurance to help your business keep working even when you can't. Don't let life's challenges stand in the way of your success. Protect what you've built today. Visit CanadaLife.com slash business protection to learn more. Canada Life.

Insurance. Investments. Advice. The new BMO VI Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks. More points. More perks. More points. More flights.

More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. And then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO VI-Porter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit bmo.com slash viporter to learn more. Rider, brave, set, ride. Riding a bike in the Ride to Conquer Cancer is like being part of humanity's greatest. The money you raise, the time you spend, the energy that you give is helping

people live, is giving people hope. And that's just so beautiful. Care the fire for cancer research. Join the ride at ridetoconquer.ca. Thursday, May 8th is McHappy Day, when every menu item purchased at McDonald's helps support families with sick children. So you can feel the good that comes from doing good, just from ordering. So if I order a Big Mac, I'm helping. Yep. What about a McFlurry?

Ten-piece chicken McNuggets and apple pie? You got it. Every single order helps. Join us at McDonald's for McHappy Day on Thursday, May 8th. Do good, feel good. A portion of food and beverage sales will support RMHC chapters and local children's charities across Canada. When you're a forward thinker,

the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. What matters most to you? Is it unforgettable adventures? Workday, moving what matters most. So back to the NBA. So you say, all right, let's make the game shorter. Now, mind you, one of the big criticisms of the NBA is that they feel dudes take too much time off,

dudes load manage, and you're not always guaranteed to see the best guys playing their asses off on a nightly basis. Well, what's going to really help that by making the game even shorter, meaning these guys who are making millions of dollars have to work even less, presumably. Now, maybe it just means the bench guys get less time. Maybe. I don't know. But that's one of the gripes that people have had, which I think is a fair gripe. There are fair gripes as it relates to why the NBA struggles, and then there are ridiculous gripes like, oh, they shoot too many fucking threes.

Well, who cares if they shoot too many threes? If the ball goes in, great. That's why the three-point line is there. Move the three-point line back. Make it tougher. Add a four-point shot. Why is that ridiculous? These are the things I think they should strongly consider. They should basically take the blueprint for NBA Jam Tournament Edition and put little things all over the court,

like little hot spots. So if you dunk from this spot, it's worth five points or something. Who cares at this point? Make it wacky. Make it stupid. Make people turned on by it. Try different things. Who gives a shit, right? You're struggling ratings-wise anyway, and your solution is let's play less time. Let's give the consumer less product to see. Think about the absurdity of that. You're eliminating eight minutes from a basketball game. That's eight less minutes that people are going to get to watch LeBron play or watch their favorite NBA player play in person you're actually bending people over and saying we're giving you less content that's bullshit so uh now again the argument would be well with less

time in the game that means LeBron would have to play more of that 40 minutes so maybe there'd be a larger percentage like if LeBron or like the best player in the league averages 35 minutes a game in a 48 minute game. Well, what if he's playing 35 minutes of a 40 minute game, you're getting to see the whole thing. And that's an argument that I guess could be fair. But do you really believe that they're going to do that? Or are they just going to play their same normal amount of time or their same percentage of time in a 40 minute game? So instead, you're getting like 28 minutes or 30 minutes in a 40-minute game of Kevin Durant versus that. I think the league, the biggest issue the league faces is not that people shoot too many threes. I don't think that's an issue.

I don't think people like basketball and baseball as much as they like football. I think that's always going to be the case. I think you fall into a situation where the regular season and those sports are long and boring, and you cannot create a world where those games matter. If you could create a world where every game mattered as much as every NFL game matters, which by the way, the NFL is going to hurt themselves too, and they keep adding more games and they're eventually going to get to a 20 game schedule, which is going to make each game matter slightly less than it already does. They added another game and it already makes those games matter slightly less than it already

did. But basically you're in a situation where like one football game is like a week's worth of baseball games. So in terms of how important it is, an NFL football game and a 17 game schedule is basically like, what is that every five or six baseball games? So you cannot create a world where a baseball game matters on a night in, night out basis. There is no drama. There is no, especially when you add more playoff teams, there's no drama. So what do you do? Now, my solution to all of this, and it's something that I continue to stump for, and it's never going to happen, but if you really want to fix it, it's not a matter of shortening games. It's not a matter of pitch clocks.

It's not a matter of shoot less threes or add a four-point shot. None of that. If you want to make shit more interesting, you will add the element of relegation. If you added the possibility that a team would have to be lowered to a lower league, which means revenues are lower, which means salaries. I don't know if salaries go lower. I'm not positive on how all that works. I would imagine they don't. But like a team's revenue is obviously going to go down if you're in a lesser league, right?

If you go from the NBA to just the G League, let's say the G League is the secondary league and the Toronto Raptors get relegated to that league, they make less money. Put the pressure on them and make every regular season game matter. That's fun to me. If you want to tell me that the Houston Astros would be in danger of playing in the Pacific Coast League next year if they didn't win more ball games, I'd be all for that. That's what we need more of. Relegation puts pressure and makes every game matter. Soccer does it well. Like we can sit there and rip soccer and you can say soccer is a boring sport. It's not a matter of whether or not the game is boring or not. It's about how these soccer leagues, not the MLS, but how these soccer leagues like the Premier

League does it. The Premier League is kind of the gold standard of soccer leagues and the gold standard, arguably, of all professional sports leagues. It's among them. It's on the Mount Rushmore of professional sports leagues, you can argue, particularly in the way you have to go about it. Like you have to finish outside of the bottom blank to avoid being relegated. And to be relegated means death. It is a crushing blow for you to be relegated. It fucking sucks. So can you imagine you're a fan of the Pittsburgh Pirates who right now have nothing to root for other than Paul Skeens and his Fimbot girlfriend, right? So like, let's say you're the Pirates and you never compete. You have a couple of years occasionally where you kind of pop up and, you know, make a little run. You go to the lcs one year division series whatever but you're the pirates nobody gives a shit about your existence

and your owner clearly doesn't give a shit about winning because you just finished dead last get a higher draft pick whatever you still get your money what if you were in danger of losing money by dropping down to the pacific coast league and not only does it add the element of your fearing dropping down, there's also the drama of finishing in the top four or whatever it would be in the Pacific Coast League. You may not win the World Series, but if you finish in the top four of the Pacific Coast League, maybe you get back up into Major League Baseball and it keeps that level of drama. You ever see how excited some of these dinky football clubs get whenever they get the opportunity to move up?

And theirs is like multiple tiers, right? Like, again, I'm not an expert on this, but I want to say there's like the English League or there's the EPL, which is the main one. Then they move down and down and down. Like, I think there's multi-tiers to this. It's not just two levels. There's multi-tiers that you have to climb up.

That would be fun. Why is that absurd? Why is that crazy? Well, it's crazy because the MLB and NBA owners would never go for it because it could possibly mean that they'd make less revenue if I had to guess. But if that were the case, that would at least make your sport more interesting. It would make your games more compelling. It would make your regular season more meaningful. Part of the reason why, like you can sit there and try to doctor everything and change the structure of the game and change the rules and add a trampoline in center field so a guy can rob home runs. That's all well and good. But at the end of it, it's the

regular season games being virtually meaningless. Another factor that plays into this as to why I think like these games are not being viewed as much as they once did. I was talking with Meltzer about this, but part of it is people, I think, unfairly judge the NBA compared to what it was in the Jordan era, which is just the most freakish era you're ever going to see. It was a different world, pre-cell phone, pre-attention spans being totally warped. Whenever you'd see an NBA on NBC game, it was the biggest deal. Jordan was almost mythical because you couldn't see him on social media and everywhere every day. So like it was a bigger deal. That's a factor. Like now you can just flip to your flip on your phone, go to X and you can see 13 highlights of

John Morant dunking in the game today. They play today. If he has an amazing dunk, you can see that a thousand times back in 1994, you know, when you would see Jordan making an amazing play over Patrick Ewing on SportsCenter or if you watch the game live. I think there is a saturation that you get from everybody getting to access every highlight instantly that makes it less important for you to see the game when it's happening. There is no FOMO. What FOMO exists for a Tuesday NBA game in New Orleans? There isn't. Because even if somehow, what's his name, the fat ass that plays for the Pelicans, right? What's his name?

Zion. Let's say Zion goes for 60. You don't have to watch Zion go for 60. You can go to YouTube instantly and see Zion go for 60. Or if you hear that he's going for 60, you can just flip it on and watch the end of the game. There is no FOMO. NFL, there's still an element of FOMO

because NFL is a ritual. It is an event. It's one day a week, although now it's like four, but it's Sunday, you're with your boys, you're drinking beers, it's an all-day thing. Another important factor is the fantasy aspect and the betting aspect I think that's helped football to a degree I think it's hurt the other sports how it's hurt the other sports not financially obviously they're doing fine

it's hurt the other sports in that you don't really need to care who wins these games as a fan like who gives a shit if your team wins a meaningless regular season game? You don't have to watch it. But if you've got money on the over in the Celtics Pacers game, or if you took John Morant over 35 points, you're interested in that. The fantasy aspect is important. More so than other sports like football fans aren't really huge on the off season and free agency in the trades. You know who cares a shit ton about that? Basketball people. And they care almost more about what's going to happen next year in the offseason than they care about what's happening in this current season.

The NBA is a fascinating world where it's like the ultimate wait till next year situation for the fans. They care more about that. The hipsters that love this shit, they care about having 13 first round picks that they can use to trade for someone in the off season. They don't care. And then you know what happens in the middle of next season? They're more concerned about who they're going to trade for or pick up in free agency the next year. The results do not matter, particularly in the regular season. There is no dynamite fix for all of this. I get that as the commissioner, you have to try something.

I get that you can't just sit on your hands and go up. Our ratings are going down, which means our revenues are going to go down. Oh, tough shit. Like you have to come up with an idea, but if your idea is to play less basketball, that's fucking stupid. You have to come up with something different. I don't like it. and I know why they won't do it but I just if you told me today like if you look at the NBA schedule today and you look at the NBA standings today and you go holy shit like this game matters because there's two teams that might be teetering on the brink of relegation like this game could matter why would that suck why would that be bad you know what I'm saying like to me that fucking rules that's fun that's like wow like this game matters now it's

just like if you finish dead last tough shit you finish dead last put some ping pong balls in the hopper and you might get the first pick cool might be a lottery pick cool like the the idea of like if you're a diehard fan of a team and like your team has to win enough games to avoid being sent down to a lower league that would get me more into it and you'd have a chance to basically win the championship of that lower league so you'd have another championship opportunity then you move into the next league that's fine we'll never do that in american sport, which I think is preposterous. But to kind of sum this up, the issues that you're running into with basketball and baseball are not so much time. That's their biggest solution is time. Speed things up. People's attention spans aren't there. Time, time, time. It's not time. The biggest issue

you're running into is interest. The biggest issue you're running into is whether or not people want to invest their time in watching something that doesn't matter. What matters? Does a meaningless regular season game when there's 82 of them matter? No. When there's 162 baseball games, do all the games matter? No urgency. That might be the better word urgency. It's not give me less action and give me fewer players and give me fewer minutes. It's give me urgency, make the NBA players know that maybe their money isn't going to be there if they play in a lower league and maybe they'll go out there and play fucking harder. If you go, go listen to these podcasts. I know I tell you to listen to the out, out the mud podcast, and it's a great podcast. It's Zach Randolph and Tony Allen. And one of the main things they talk about is how hard you played in high school and college because you were trying to get to the pros, and then you played your balls off in the pros because you wanted that big deal. And once you got that big deal, you felt like you made it. How do you recreate that? How do you create a world where these dudes have to have

that constant hunger? And maybe it's impossible because they'll never go to relegation, but that's what you have to recreate. Once a dude's making $30 million a year and it's guaranteed, what incentive does that guy really have to go out there on a Tuesday in Memphis and play the Grizzlies and really give his all? He doesn't. What incentive does a baseball player who's guaranteed all of his money, what incentive does he have? He doesn't. Just stand there pulling his pud in the outfield for nine innings and get out of there. That's the problem you run into. And baseball, you're about to see a world where unless you are one of the true haves you have no chance like even if you're in a big market like you may not have a chance but the smaller market teams are damn near dead

at this point with the way this whole thing's trending so anyway uh we'll do more