The Josh Innes Show - The Uphill Climb Continues

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

I'm here at the radio station today and I want this thing to be a super success. But, there are days when it feels damn near unwinnable. I like to share these things with you guys because I like to have you involved in my world. I know this is the toughest spot I've ever been in. Can we win? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So sometimes I'll read these media stories or these radio stories on these websites like Barrett Media who I don't think likes me very much and that's fine and I'll be honest. I don't really care for a lot of the stuff they do either. But I always look at it every day just to see what media news there is and just who's gotten fired, who's gotten hired, all that kind of stuff, you know. and I see a story that says, why your radio station isn't growing, why your radio station isn't growing and the four behaviors that fix it. Well, I'll say this, our radio station's not growing right now, and I'm all about listening to ideas, right? So what ideas are there to grow the radio station that I'm on right now?

Because I need to, I want to. But I'll be honest with you, there are days, though, I come in, and I'm just like, what can we do. You know, like, I don't know, sometimes, I'll just be honest, sometimes I don't have the answer. And it's just like I'm, at times, I just feel like I'm missing this spark or this energy that I used to have for stuff. And I don't, I don't know, I don't know why it is. I'll just, I'll just, I'll be completely honest with you. Like, I think we do pretty good stuff, but it's just like, at times, it just feels like there's something missing inside of me, like this certain passion that I used to possess, you know, like that feeling. And maybe it's

because, you know, we don't make a lot of news and nobody talks about us on social media. Like, even when I'd go to work in St. Louis, the people hated me so much that there was some sort of driving force that I knew they were listening and I knew they were there, at least. Like, here, I don't know that they are there. Like, this is a big time uphill climb. We've talked about it a lot. But let me play a few commercials and we'll get into more of that. At Vandal Casino, you get even more ways to play.

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please contact Connects Ontario at 1866-531-2,600, to speak to an advisor free of charge. Like when I think about Philadelphia, right, like I'd go to work every day. And there was just this intensity. Like, I'd never experienced anything like that before. And at times I didn't like it, but there was like, there was this passion and you knew you had to win because we were this big station and we had no choice but to win.

And everyone that was involved in the upper management and everybody knew that this station had to be successful. This was WIP. When you went to work there, you knew that this radio station had no choice but to be successful or they would fire your ass. And I liked that. It put a pressure on you. Look, I think I'd handle situations like that a lot better now.

Like, at the time, I handled it very poorly a lot of the time in terms of how I let it mess with me mentally and how I let it control my life and the fights with Missinelli and all that. And that was quality radio. That's not really the bigger part. But, like, I'd let it consume so much of my life. And that was when I was, what, 27, 28 years old. Now I'm almost 40. Like, I have a better idea of how to compartmentalize some of that stuff. Although I still lose my fucking mind sometimes.

But I think I'd handle that situation a whole lot. better. What I've learned about me, what I don't handle well, is being irrelevant. And whether I am irrelevant or not, you can debate. I'm not talking about with the podcast. Like, I have a nice audience of people. I love you guys that listen to the podcast, and it makes me some dough. And I truly do love you guys. I do. But like in Detroit, I couldn't get arrested. No one knows who the fuck I am, right? And part of that is you got to go out and make news. But the other part of it is nobody wants to do anything to go make news. Like, it's just a different world than it was 10 years ago.

And when I was at WIP, like, you had no choice but to make something of yourself. And I also had this drive and this desire. Like, I would defy management and I would just do things on the air. They didn't want me to do because I knew that that's what needed to be done. I knew it. And looking back on it, and we've talked about this a lot, you know, the biggest mistakes I made, I shouldn't have, you know, continued the Missinelli shit as long as I did. But I did.

And that kind of became what I was known for. and the content of the show didn't matter. And, you know, we beat them right away. That wasn't a slow burn. We beat them in a month. I could have stopped it right there, and it wouldn't have mattered. But, you know, things like that, I continued to do. And I shouldn't have.

I should have eased back on that a lot. Part of it, as we've talked about, was the fact that there was no, that, you know, the teams were bad, there was nothing to talk about. So, like, I just kept going back to that well, and I probably shouldn't have. I should have pumped the brakes on that earlier than I did. I didn't. It was what it was, and it sucked. And, you know, and people tuned out.

and the ratings went down in some cases, and I get that. But one thing I don't handle well, and this is just the ABCs of me, is I don't handle feeling like no one gives a shit. And we're building an audience, there are people listening, and I'm not good at the burn of the build, right? Like, I like building things, but I like getting reactions. And there will be many mornings that the phone doesn't ring once and the text messages don't come in at all. and I am completely disheartened. And all you tell yourself is I got my fucking ass up at five of this morning, 4.30 this morning.

It's 20 degrees outside. I'm knocking snow off the car. It's freezing fucking cold in the car. I'm tired. I'm sitting on the commode for 20 minutes because my stomach's upset. And I'm like, what the fuck? You know, and that's reality. I'm just telling you the truth.

I've told this to my bosses before. There are days that you just come in here and you're like, like, what do we do? What's the answer? you know and I have that feeling a lot I'm just shooting you straight like I'm not accustomed to that because when I got to even when I got to 610 when I was 23 years old and I got to 610 phone lines text lines things would ring even for stations that didn't have big ratings there was a reaction and part of that comes from being on talk stations where where you would um on talk stations there's a built in audience because there's a built an audience for sports there's a built

an audience for talk. There isn't a built-in audience on rock stations that want talk programming. So you're already kind of fighting an uphill battle. That was the killer in St. Louis. In St. Louis, when I went there, they didn't want a guy doing a morning show in the afternoon, but we did it and I kind of talked my way into the job. And almost instantly I can tell, like, by the way, there were a bunch of people that dug it. But they weren't going to sit there and let that thing ride for multiple years to figure it out, right? And by the way, the ratings went up, and then they crashed. Whatever. It is what it is. But, okay, in that time, I knew that as I was sitting there and I should have just been spending 10 seconds making a wacky joke about Blue Oyster

Colt and playing 20 songs an hour, I knew it was a bad situation. I knew it was never going to succeed. I knew that maybe you put me on in mornings, and even there, they play like 10 songs an hour in the morning. So it was never going to work. It was a mistake. We fucked up. I knew it. And I'll never talk to those people again. They'll never talk with me again. And it just is what it is. It was a disaster and the people hated me. But every day I'd come in and at least there'd be a reaction from people. It was visceral and it was fucking angry and they wanted me to die.

A lot of those people hated me. But at least every day it'd be a nonstop like fuck this guy. This guy's ruined the station. Then there'd be a guy that say he's great and the needs change. But like in the rock music I've done other than that, those reactions really didn't exist in Nashville. And they don't exist at all. currently. And that's where I get, that's where I struggle, right? Like, even if the ratings aren't great, but you can feel like a vibe and you can feel people building around you and

you can tell they like what you're doing. And maybe it's on me because I'm sitting here depending on people to text and call to make me feel like it's doing something. Maybe that's a me problem because that's not a good way to go about things. But when you don't get that vibe, Like I see these guys, like these guys I know in Philadelphia that have a talk radio show. And there's like 600 people watching their stream every morning. Like I have a couple of radio shows that I've watched on YouTube before, so they'll show up in my feed. So I'll see like Preston and Steve have like a billion people watching or the other morning show in town here has a billion people watching or the morning show in St. Louis has a billion people watching. Or this talk show in Philadelphia has a billion people watching.

And then here we are and I'm just like, now what? I know I have to win and I have to succeed, but there are days that you walk in and you're just like, what do I do? Like, what can I do to get these people going? What can I do to draw attention to this? And it's just a different world for me because I'm not used to that. I've been fortunate in the sense that when I got to Houston, 610 was the big station. It was down, but it was the big station. And there was immediate reaction when I got there.

Hate, love, whatever. There was immediate reaction. Plus, it was in the early days. a Twitter and everything, so you didn't fully know who all was there. You could just assume a bunch of people were listening. At WIP, you knew a bunch of people were listening. Go back to Houston, you knew there was an audience because it was a media and people were talking and they either hated you or they loved you. Once that ended up in the music world, the music world is harder to get a reaction in with people, particularly when you go in and these people aren't

asking. The expectation is play the fucking music. So it's a harder world to go into, especially when this is a station that's had no ratings, basically its entire existence. But anyway, why your radio station isn't growing? Let's see here. Number one, promote your existing products better. Most stations don't have a product problem. They have an awareness problem. Well, that's actually a very good point. Whoever wrote this story, I agree. Let's see, Phil Becker. Phil Becker, I agree with you. I'm not, I'm with you. Start by promoting what listeners already love, not what you wish they loved. Use video to highlight real moments from the audio you create. Put talent faces everywhere people look. Humans connect with humans,

not logos, not slogans. Show your face, but please retire that blurry jock photo from 2014. Also, I, that spies the idea of being considered a jock or anything like that, but like, look, there's a step one, according to Phil. Two, incrementally improved the listening experience. clean up those tiny dead air gaps in your intros and imaging they add up i don't necessarily think anybody cares about that replace one week category with one strong uh category update imaging that has outlived its timeliness that's audio version of an email signature stuck in a stay safe in 2025 audit every benchmark and cut the ones listeners tolerate but don't actually enjoy tolerance is not the same as relevance well i don't know that listeners really care about any fucking

benchmarks. That's another thing. Like, create a benchmark. Do something. Like, I've never liked creating benchmarks because I think people are tuned in because they want to, they, like, I get in some cases, these things work. In my experience, the benchmarks were never a thing that made us successful. When I was successful in Philly and successful in Houston, I don't believe that the benchmarks that they made us do were a big deal. But whatever, what do I know? Introduce a breakthrough in performance. Maybe it's a talent who stops performing and starts connecting. Maybe it's a contest that cuts through the clutter because it feels handcrafted, not recycled from the win a thousand dollar templates. Maybe it's a signature sound or production style that instantly

distinguishes your station. Well, no one's listening to the music radio station because of the imaging guy. I can tell you that. Create a new category. Maybe it's a station that redefines a format instead of inheriting. Well, that I would agree with. And I think that's what we're trying. And I think like you're evolving like the classic rock universe. You know, so like Classic Rock's a weird world because there's a lot of old music in classic rock and you're trying to find a way to modernize that music and do more and, you know, how do you update it? What music do you add? So, like, it's interesting. Watching what IHeart is doing with a lot of these radio stations where you're evolving the classic rock format. It's not just CCR and Jimmy Hendricks anymore. How deep into the 2000s do you go with that music? You know, we talk about that a lot. How deep and how far into that music world do you go? You know, do you play? Eve 6. Do you play a nickelback? What do you do? Like, it's a fair question, and I'm intrigued by it. So I agree with that. Maybe it's a show that blends content in a way the market has never

offered. Maybe it's a music position that feels risky at first and obvious later. The best idea is usually age that way. It's interesting to me that people pay people to come up with this shit. Phil Becker is a weekly music columnist for Barrett Media and has built his career on the intersection of creative strategy and operations. Creativity strategy operations. Let's see. The guys worked everywhere, it seems, has Phil Becker. So, like, I'll listen to anybody's ideas and I'll talk with anybody. And I love talking with people about ideas. But, you know, like, I sit here today and I've been here since July. And granted, it hasn't been a real show since July. I mean, it was just me up here, you know,

talking very little for the first three months or whatever it is. And we've been doing this now. for almost two months. And the thing is, I really think the shit is funny, and I think it's good. And I understand that we're up against it because there's a behemoth rock morning show that's already in place on a behemoth rock station that's already in place. There's a classic rock station that's been here for 40 years. There's an alt station. There are four rock stations.

If you count the rock station that's across the river in Canada, the blast it here. There's five. It is a tough world. And there's an element of me that's like super stoked about. the idea of trying to create something. And I know that if we're able to build this thing into something amazing, then I'll write my ticket for anything anywhere. I'll be the fucking dude because this is a damn near unwinnable situation. And I say that with all due respect to the situation. But it is. When you think about it, if you just wrote this down, like this is not a

situation that somebody with options would have gone into. Let's put it that way. If you had options in life, which real talk, I fucking didn't. So if you had options in life, this is not the kind of thing you would take on if we're being completely honest, because it is a tough put. You know, you scope out the market and know the world and you know the media landscape of the town you're in. You know that this radio station hasn't been doing well for a while. You know that it's the fifth rock station in town. You know that it's up against two heritage big time stations already.

Like, hell, go, like I went to Nashville. When I took that job again, I didn't have options. So I took it. And it was Nashville's a good situation. But if you go to Nashville, Nashville did not have another rock station. They had one small alt-rock station that was locally owned. That's it. This station was just a sleeping giant.

Now it's number one. Like, I'm the dipshit that leaves the number one station to go to St. Louis to chase a couple of bucks and get fired in 15 months. Now, all the people that are still there are reaping the benefits of what we were able to do there. Now, credit to them. Like, they're still doing it. But, like, it ain't what we were doing there for the two years I was there. But I will give myself credit, like, and say, hey, I went. there when it was dormant and it needed a jolt. I gave it a jolt. The numbers went up. I got some bonuses

there. I go to St. Louis and it was a mistake. But, like, I like the people here. I enjoy the people I work with here. And there are days that I come in here and I'm just like, how do I do this? And part of it is that feeling where you're like, what, like, what am I doing to help here? Like, like, because you feel like a dipshit when you come in here and you're not getting that reaction, especially when you're used to it. when you're used to coming into a place and it's like holy shit this guy's a lightning rod but like you can't be a lightning rod if no one knows you exist so you know and maybe it's just time to say fuck it and just do whatever just say who gives a shit who gives a shit what it is we do just go do something stupid to get noticed like go out there and just say screw it

maybe that's the answer maybe that's the bit maybe it's just like all the gloves come off but then the second you start doing that is when people who are desperate for you to get ratings and revenue are like we probably shouldn't do that well fuck it let's do whatever you want me to be successful you want us to be successful you want the show to win you want it to be a success story

which I really fucking do like you have no idea how badly I would like that's what was appealing about this A I didn't have a job but B it was this thing is sitting here and it's it's it's there and if you're able to make it something, then you're a fucking stud. And like there's something that drives me about that. But then there's a lot of days you come in and you're like, what do I have to fucking do? So we'll see. We'll see what kind of, we'll see what we can do.

But like, again, it's a different world too because I'll talk with people in the talk world and they'll be like, well, boy, you could do whatever. If you were in this, you could do this. And I'm like, yeah, I could. But people are already coming to you because there's an expectation of talk or in sports. there's expectation of sports talk. You know, there's a sports station here that just dominates. It's the only sports station in town. So you know that that's where you have to go for sports.

I got five rock stations here. And a lot of these people that have been listening, the small audience they had, those people who are listening are there because they just want to hear Stone Temple pilots. So I'm up against it. I'm just giving you the reality of all of this. I am up against it. I believe in me and I believe in the people I work with. But like sometimes that belief isn't even enough.

Like, what do you do? How do you get up? How do you get up off the mat and figure shit out? You know, I listen to the Dion books and I'll get motivated for five minutes. And then I'm like, I'm coming in here to kick ass today. Then you come in here and it's like, you're doing a great topic and you're expecting interaction and people to call and people to text and be able to be like, that's some great shit. Now, here's my thoughts on it.

And then none of it happens. And you're like, you know, like that's just reality. It's tough. Just shooting you straight. Sometimes it's tough. This is, without a doubt, the toughest position I have ever been in. without a doubt this is the first time i'd say the st louis position was tough only because those people listening had no desire to have some asshole in the afternoon doing bits they had

no interest in that that was tough from that standpoint but money wise station position wise this is without a doubt the toughest place the toughest pot and there's a part of me that digs it and there's a part of me that's like fuck like what can i do you know like it's it's an interesting situation, just to put it that way. But I'm glad you guys are listening and I love you.