The Journal. - How the U.S. Negotiated Evan Gershkovich’s Freedom

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

Russia freed wrongfully convicted Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich and more than a dozen others on Thursday as part of the largest East-West prisoner swap since the Cold War. WSJ’s Joe Parkinson and Drew Hinshaw report on the effort to bring Gershkovich home.  Further Listening: -Russia Tries a WSJ Reporter in a Secret Court  -Two Parents on a Crusade to Free Their Son  Further Reading: -Inside the Secret Negotiations to Free Evan Gershkovich  -WSJ Reporter Evan Gershkovich Is Free  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This morning, I rushed into the Wall Street Journal newsroom. As we started getting details confirming that our reporter, Evan Gershkovich, was about to walk free after 70 weeks in Russian prisons. Today, he's finally coming home. — I think this is a historic day for The Wall Street Journal. — People cheered, cried, hugged. And our editor-in-chief, Emma Tucker, addressed the room. Okay, I genuinely... I kind of don't know what to say here.

It actually feels like a... It feels like an out-of-body experience, because we've all been waiting for this moment for such a long time. I'm sure everybody, you know, we've all fantasized in our heads, and I'm sure the person who fantasized most was Evan himself. Evan was freed as part of the largest and most complex east-west prisoner swap since the Cold War. Our colleagues Drew Hinshaw and Joe Parkinson have spent months following the delicate negotiations

that led to this moment. You could say this is the most complicated prisoner swap in modern American history. You've got citizens of six or seven different countries being flown from all over Europe. You've got Americans coming out of three different prisons in Russia. You have Russian dissidents, political prisoners, journalists. And on the other side, a group of Russian deep cover illegal agents working for the Russian intelligence services. It's kind of incredible. And like the center of the swap,

the asset that Putin wanted back more than anything else is a man named Vadim Krasikov. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Kate Leinbach. It's Thursday, August 1st. Coming up on the show, inside the historic prisoner swap

that freed our colleague Evan. Pandora, be love. What does be love mean to you? I definitely would say my be love role model is for sure my sister. Unconditional, infinite love. Something that is never ending, that you know is always there. Never questioned. Never questioned. No matter if you fall off a cliff, she's there to catch you, you know? Be love. Shop now at Pandora.net.

Before Joe and Drew reported on Evan Gershkovich, they reported with him, as reporters for the Wall Street Journal. We've been reporting this story for 16 months, and it's about our friend Evan, who we were working with right until his arrest. And it's been sort of surreal, quite honestly, to cover somebody like that that you know. And then now that he's off this plane, it's like he's no longer this person that we're covering, but it's like he's back, he's Evan.

And it feels like after 16 months trying to kind of not just learn about him, but about the whole context in which he was taken. In the last couple of weeks, as we got closer to this, we've come back to really learning more about him, about his experience in prison, and learning more about his family. And the fact that he'll be back soon in the U.S. this evening is just a wonderful thing. A really wonderful thing. When did you guys know that this was going to happen? We've been covering this since the day Evan got arrested.

And to be candid, when he was arrested, the thought went through my mind many times that he's going to be in jail for years, could be 10 years, until there's maybe a peace agreement in Ukraine or some sort of historic rapprochement between the US and Russia. But over the past six months, really since January, December, January, it was pretty clear that there was an idea working its way up through the system to make Evan one of many people who would be traded for many other people. And inside that deal would be this professional murderer that Putin wants. And who is this professional murderer? Vadim Krasikov was a career hitman.

He is accused of multiple murders of Russians who fell afoul of the Kremlin in one way or another. And Putin showed an unusual interest in this person after his arrest. He seemed to be very important to Putin. The two of them had been so close that according to that in Krasikov's family, he told them that Putin shoots pretty well. He's a good shot.

So Putin's got to be pretty comfortable with you to take you to a gun range, I would say. And where was Krasikov arrested? And what was he arrested for? He was arrested in Berlin. He was disguised with a wig, riding on a bike, and came up behind his target and shot him in broad daylight in a park, the small Tiergarten in central Berlin, which is actually very close to the Chancellery, made an escape, but was caught in the process and then was

tried and convicted and sentenced to murder. This was the leverage that the West had. A professional murderer in German custody who Putin wanted back. And as these negotiations evolved, something strange happened, which is that Putin, who normally keeps his cards incredibly close to his chest, normally is very, very disciplined in terms of his remarks about the Russian intelligence services, but he started to talk more and more about Krasikov publicly. First of all, hinting that the Americans weren't listening

to what the Russians wanted. Secondly, being actually specific. First of all, talking about Evan, and then in the next sentence, talking about this individual who's a patriot, who did something for the Russian motherland. Making it very clear to people who work in this world, that's what Putin wanted. That was a clear and direct sign that he wanted to do a deal,

but it was also, in some ways, gave the US and its partners more leverage because they knew if Putin was prepared to go public, the value of Krasikov and therefore the number of people they could attach to a deal for Krasikov might be much greater than they thought and I think that's ultimately what's transpired here. When would you say efforts to arrange this prisoner swap began? The true story of this prisoner swap began before Evan was even arrested. Years before. Years before.

It was done by a Bulgarian journalist named Christo Grozev and other supporters of a famous Russian dissident named Alexei Navalny. And they were working for a long time to try to get the US and Germany to move ahead with this idea for put a whole bunch of Russian dissidents on one side, put a few Americans who need to come home on that paper to and trade them for a whole bunch of Russian spies. But over the past six months, really since January, it was pretty clear that there was an idea working its way up to the system that there was an idea working its way up through the system to make Evan one of many people who would be traded for many other people.

And there were ups and downs. We thought we were really pretty close in February. Of course, we couldn't really tell anybody that. And then it collapsed in February. The February deal would have involved a trade of Evan and Navalny and others for Krasikov. But on February 16th, Navalny died in prison. And that was a major setback for the deal.

A number of things happened after he died. One was a pathway began to open. The German government, particularly Chancellor Olaf Scholz, had pledged to the US that he was willing to explore a deal where they would free Krasikov and return for a political prisoner. And now that that principle had been set, it was a question of, well, if Navalny himself won't be freed, maybe there are other political prisoners in Russia

who could be freed. And after Navalny's death, essentially, Germany insisted on freeing as many people, getting as many political prisoners in Russia who could be freed. And after Navalny's death, essentially, Germany insisted on freeing as many people, getting as many political prisoners out of Russia as it possibly could bargain. What's kind of remarkable is that as Germany and the U.S. circled each other and moved towards this outcome, there were a number of people who pushed it along. One of them is Evan's mom was talking to everybody she could to Schultz to Biden to Secretary Blinken to White House National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan to the Special Presidential for hostage affairs, Roger Carstens to everybody she could meet. She was pushing

this idea along saying, please, please help my son. And I do think in covering this, that the pleas from family, they really do matter. They really do matter when you're the president of a country or the chancellor. It's one thing to look at a sheet of paper and say, these are the reasons why we should or shouldn't do this. It's another to have somebody's, you know, family member holding your hands and saying my son or daughter or brother is behind bars and they're innocent. I remember seeing Ella in the newsroom and her just being like,

I don't think people are doing enough. She was very just impatient. Yeah. Wouldn't you be? I mean. Totally. Yeah. You just would be such a human response. And actually she made one intervention in a TV interview where she decided to express

her frustration and it was carefully calibrated and carefully timed. She waited until she had felt the government wasn't doing everything that it could and that there were other opportunities that weren't being followed and she wanted to throw a hand grenade to try and push the process forward. She went on Fox News. But it's been 250 days and Evan is not here. And the efforts to do whatever it takes hasn't been done. And in a weird way, that kind of shook out,

you know, it forced the government to come out publicly and say they'd made these offers. The Russians got angry initially and Ella thought she'd miscalculated. But in the sweep of history, we can now see that that really helped kind of open up and move people forward towards each other. And it's strange, these little like human interventions

at the right time all contribute to kind of pushing the process of bringing these big countries that are far apart, like closer and closer together. And those countries were able to come to an agreement. How the exchange took place is next. Need a great reason to get up in the morning? Well what about two? Right now get a small organic Fairtrade coffee and a tasty bacon and egg or breakfast sandwich

for only $5 at A&W's in Ontario. Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor, or a consultant, you can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more. Yesterday afternoon, whispers of a big prisoner swap started hitting social media. People were tweeting screenshots of the US Federal Bureau of Prisons website showing that several high-profile Russian prisoners were no People were tweeting screenshots of the U.S. Federal Bureau of Prison's website,

showing that several high-profile Russian prisoners were no longer listed. In Russia, a lawyer for imprisoned former Marine Paul Whelan said she had lost touch with him. And by this morning, this high-profile prisoner exchange had spilled into public view. Breaking news. The United States and Russia have agreed to an historic prisoner swap exchange had spilled into public view. Breaking news, the United States and Russia have agreed to an historic prisoner swap that reportedly involves multiple countries. 26 prisoners were exchanged in Ankara today. Among those now free, Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich and Marine veteran

Paul Whalen. Evan Gershkovich, who was imprisoned in Russia, facing 16 years on espionage charges, now on his way home. —They are expected soon to be in U.S. custody. —Believed to be the largest prisoner swap between the two countries since the Cold War. —In total, Russia freed 16 people, including political dissidents and journalists.

It was the first time since the fall of the Soviet Union that Moscow freed prominent dissidents as part of a swap. In exchange, eight people were released to Russia by the West, including a convicted hacker and accused spies. When you see these things on the TV screen and we see the kind of grainy images of the airport and the sort of silhouettes of people walking. And that is definitely like one track of this. Like intelligence agencies in secret do discuss and have been discussing, you know, the idea of these swaps.

But beneath that is another whole landscape of like the most crazy characters you can imagine. And it's so mad that like Evan, our friend, our colleague, is now really like, in some ways, the key component of this unprecedented swap, in some ways his arrest unlocked the idea of something broader where the countries involved could be persuaded that delivering Krasikov could be something worth doing.

Delivering a murderer was worth doing if they could bring back dozens of people. And the fact that Evan's been involved in this, the fact that we're going to be able to, once he's had some time to be with his family and do whatever he needs to do for as long as it takes, the fact we're going to be able to talk to him about this, I think he's going to absolutely love those conversations.

And he will have a lot to offer in those conversations from his own perspective too which is something I think we're yeah like obviously really really looking forward to. What are you gonna say to Evan? You know Evan's got a lot of people to see. He's probably been thinking about Joe and I a lot less than we've been thinking about him. That's for sure. If there's anything I'm going to say to him, it's that I hope he reads today's Wall Street Journal. We've got some stories in there,

and I hope he doesn't notice any facts that need correcting. Earlier today, shortly after Evan and the others stepped off the Russian plane, President Biden spoke at the White House. The families of the former prisoners gathered around him, including Evan's mom. The deal that made this possible was the feat of diplomacy and friendship, friendship. Multiple

countries helped get this done. They joined the difficult complex negotiations at my request. And I personally thank them all again. What does it say that this massive prisoner swap happened? We're now in an era where this is just how countries express their rivalry, where they take and trade each other's citizens. We're in a world where Americans are a tradable asset, where countries grab us and trade us like currency and where we, when that happens, the United States goes around looking for people that it can trade in return. This is just how, unfortunately, geopolitics is done.

The days of where, you know, we don't negotiate with kidnappers, yeah, but what if that kidnapper is Vladimir Putin, he's got a seat on the UN Security Council of nuclear weapons and he's got someone who's done nothing wrong and deserves to come home. What do you do then? What would you do if you were that person's family member? This is just how things are done. There's no easy moral or political solution to it. And it's probably going to get worse before it gets better. Joe? I think we're still processing what's just happened. And I think the fact that we've all somehow become involved

in this moment in history, because our focus, of course, is on Evan. We're focused on him and his family, but his experience somehow is entangled with this moment where the whole world is moving into a new Cold War. And the prisoner swap that we've just seen is the biggest since the Cold War. And we haven't seen scenes like this since people were walking over bridges in East Germany in the 70s and the 80s.

What does that mean? It means, hopefully, that these two sides that sometimes seem to be on the verge, particularly the Russian side, of pressing a big red nuclear button, and we have the biggest land war in Europe since 1945, we have so many things that are so tense, but it also shows that in the shadows, people are talking, people are able to solve complicated problems, people are able to come complicated problems. People are able to come together

and maybe find a solution that can try to decrease some of these tensions that we're all feeling where it feels like the world's going out of control. And Evan somehow has become a symbol, not just for how messed up the world is at the moment that he was even taken in the first place and he's had to go through this experience, but maybe he's also become a symbol for how these great powers can actually talk to each

other behind the surface and maybe get stuff done. This episode has been updated to correct the pronunciation of Paul Whelan's name. That's all for today. Thursday, August 1st. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening.

See you tomorrow.