The Journal. - Inside One Publisher’s Fight Against Book Bans

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

School districts and state legislatures have been ramping up efforts to ban certain books from school libraries and curricula. Last year, Penguin Random House decided to do something to stop them. We speak to WSJ’s Jeffrey Trachtenberg and to the man leading Penguin Random House's efforts, Skip Dye. Further Reading: - A Publishing Giant’s Risky Fight Against Book Bans  - Penguin Random House, Authors Sue Iowa Officials Over Book Ban  - Scholastic Planned to Segregate Diverse Titles at School Book Fairs. Then Came the Backlash.  Further Listening: - Scholastic’s Succession Drama  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you love books? 10. That's Skip Dye, an executive at Penguin Random House, one of the largest book publishing companies in the world. It's hard to put a number on it for me. Books have been so, they're such a part of my world and my life, my evolution. So it is a 10. Skip's job is to sell and market Penguin Random House's books to teachers and librarians. But these days, the company says thousands of its books aren't allowed in schools anymore.

Across the country, book banning in libraries and schools is gaining momentum. 65 titles the district is reviewing for what it calls sexualized content. School districts have banned books in 37 states. Last May, Skip was asked to give an update on book bans at a Penguin Random House board meeting. Up until then, the company had maintained a relatively low profile, and the board was expecting a routine discussion. But instead, Skip's update turned into an impassioned speech. I said, this is now hampering employees who we have in over 40 states in different ways.

It's impacting how they do their jobs. It's impacting our authors, how they live their lives. And that's how I started the speech, I guess. It came to be a speech from the heart. Skip said the company needed to do more. That it needed to get out there and lobby lawmakers against the bans. I was fired up. I think people the bans. I was fired up. I think people would have said that I was fired up.

And I think they saw the concern. And it was a concern they all had. And I guess it's one of those things, when you say it out loud, it makes it real. And I guess I said it out loud. The company's CEO was moved by Skip's speech. And what happened next went even further than Skip could have imagined. Did I know that we would be into a lawsuit like a few weeks later?

Literally a few weeks later? No. That board meeting sent Penguin Random House on a path that no publisher in the country had taken. sent Penguin Random House on a path that no publisher in the country had taken. Now, it's suing states and school districts to try and stop book bans. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudson. It's Tuesday, February 27th. It's Tuesday, February 27th. Coming up on the show, Penguin Random House's big fight against book bans. Need a great reason to get up in the morning?

Well, what about two? Right now, get a small organic fair trade coffee and a tasty bacon and egg or breakfast sandwich for only $5 at A&W's in Ontario. Our colleague Jeffrey Trachtenberg covers the publishing industry, and he's been following Penguin Random House's book ban fight. When and where did these book bans first start happening? So we've always had periods where books were banned, but what we're really talking about

is what began to take place in school libraries and public school classrooms in 2021-22. Suddenly, conservative groups primarily raised objections to specific titles and said to their school board or their school district, this book is inappropriate to be taught in elementary school because it has sexual content, or it's inappropriate because it has gender content, or it's inappropriate because it discusses racial matters

in a way that makes other people, some people, uncomfortable. And when these parents and other people started raising these concerns, how was it that they were able to actually get the books banned? Virtually anybody can go before a school board or raise an objection in a school and say, I find a problem here with this book. I think it should be reviewed. And then the book will actually undergo a review, typically at the school level. undergo a review, typically at the school level. And then, if the school review says the book is perfectly fine, the person who brought the complaint or their concern can move it up the food chain a little bit and go to the school district where they can come to a different panel.

And if that panel should also find that the book is appropriate, there can be a further appeal to the school board. In some places, it's parents who are driving the bans, sometimes by winning seats on school boards. In other places, bans can happen through state legislatures, some of which are passing laws against sexual content in schools. And the number of bans is increasing. In just a single year, from July 2022 to July 2023, 1,500 books were banned in school districts around the country.

Supporters of these bans say that books that discuss sexuality, racism, or violence are inappropriate for young kids. For example, one book that some parents have flagged is Pride Puppy. It's about a puppy that gets lost at a pride parade. Lindsay Smith from Maryland was worried about her three-year-old son reading it. Smith leads her local chapter of Moms for Liberty, and she spoke about it last year

at a U.S. House Education Committee hearing. The language of this book is far from appropriate. In the hide-and-find glossary, three- to four-year-olds are encouraged to find images of leather, drag queen, and underwear. I want you to imagine very briefly with me that your three-year-old son, with a speech delay, who was in the school for a language delay, comes home with this book and also read it out loud in class. General concerns about sexual content can often lead to wide-ranging bans, and as a result, many classics have been removed from schools, like Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye, where the main character is raped, and George Orwell's 1984, which describes sexual desire and nudity. One of the most challenged books

is called Genderqueer. It's a graphic novel by Maya Kobabe. What do the authors of these books say about what's happening? Well, it's terrible for them. If you're a new writer, perhaps a gay writer or a black writer, and you're just beginning to build your career, and they take your book off the shelf, that can have real commercial consequences for you. So when these book bans started in around 2021, how did book publishers respond at first? Well, they were concerned. A lot of them contributed money to trade groups to oppose what they saw as sort of a new culture war that was unfolding that they were caught up in.

Skip Dye from Penguin Random House kept hearing about book bans from the teachers and librarians he works with, and they were telling him they felt pressured to remove books they thought kids should have access to. So that is what I noticed, that they were preoccupied more with what may be the content of the book in terms of how it may affect outside of their curriculum that they're teaching or outside of the needs of some of their students in the classroom. They weren't expressing a concern to you about what this might mean for the kids.

No. They were more worried about how the parents might react. Well, the parents and also outside groups. Penguin Random House says it's had more books on banned lists than any other publisher. And over time, its sales have been affected. We have seen a decline in sales. We've seen a decline in our interest in some of our authors doing appearances at schools and libraries for fear of retaliation. So it has been impactful on authors. The impact, as I see it, is long-ranging.

Penguin Random House had donated money to help advocacy groups challenge book bans, something other publishers had done as well. But it wasn't until Skip made that boardroom speech that the company decided to do more. So there was a decision made in that meeting that day, after you finished speaking, where the CEO of the company basically said, Skip, you're the man to take this on,

and I want you to take charge. Yes. I am feeling so fortunate that we have a CEO who said immediately, we have to do something. And Skip, you're going to do it. And what do you need? And how can we support you? We made that decision. And then I went, Oh, I've got a lot of work to do. What Skip and Penguin Random House decided to do is next. On August 9th, don't miss the Borderlands movie starring this summer's biggest cast.

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Available at the LCBO. Skip Dye's fiery speech led to the creation of a new team at Penguin Random House. It's called the Intellectual Freedom Task Force. Skip was in charge. And pretty quickly, he heard about a possible lawsuit in Florida. An advocacy group and some authors were planning to sue Escambia School District to overturn its book ban. They were looking for people to get involved. We had some of our authors involved. And so it seemed to be the right thing to do. Could adding Penguin Random House's name elevate it? Which I'm hoping it did. In May of last year, just a couple weeks after that board meeting, the lawsuit was announced. And Penguin Random House was one of the plaintiffs. Turning

now to Florida, the largest publisher in the country, along with a group of authors and parents, are now suing a school district in the state to prevent it from banning books. Escambia School District moved to dismiss the lawsuit, but a judge is allowing it to move forward. The case is still pending. But Skip's team didn't stop with one lawsuit in Florida. It also set its sights on Iowa.

Last year, Iowa passed a law that would, among other things, ban books depicting a sexual act from public school libraries. Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds said that books, quote, with graphic depictions of sex acts have absolutely no place in our schools. with graphic depictions of sex acts, have absolutely no place in our schools. Do I think inappropriate things are being displayed in libraries and in classrooms across the state? From what I've heard from parents, I absolutely agree with that. Penguin Random House decided to sue,

saying that the law violates the free speech and equal protection clauses of the U.S. Constitution. In its lawsuit, the company said, quote, authors have the right to communicate their ideas to students without undue interference from the government. Did any of this feel risky for Penguin Random House? I don't mean to laugh. Yes, it did feel risky, but it was the right thing to do. Why did that question make you chuckle? I think that if people, if I thought about it too hard, I probably would have worried about it more.

But I have such strong faith in our company. Did you feel like this was a business issue for Penguin or an ethical and moral issue for Penguin? It was a moral, it was the right thing to do. As our CEO felt and said, it will impact all our voices. It will impact our publishing. Penguin Random House didn't sue Iowa alone.

It also brought in other plaintiffs. One of them was a 17-year-old student named Haley Bonds, who had already been speaking out against the bans. I initially said no at first, just because it was kind of a big step. I also felt awkward being student body president and then suing my own school district. school district. But I realized now is as good a time as any to stand up and represent the voice of other students. I was by far not the only one frustrated by this. And it's really sad to see that our government doesn't have the same trust that we as students do in our teachers and librarians. Haley says that even before the Iowa law was passed,

just the threat of it was having a chilling effect at her school. It was very frustrating. I remember back in early 2023, my friend was taking an advanced women's writers class and she told me that they had just finished reading The Color Purple and The Handmaid's Tale. And at the time I was in advanced literature, so we weren't reading the same books. But I was like, remembering, oh, I need to go read those books.

And then I went to the teacher to go get those, and she was like, well, you should read them while you can. And it was heartbreaking. In August, Haley's school district released a list of books that violated the new state law. Both The Handmaid's Tale and The Color Purple were on it. It's a huge accessibility issue. I have supportive parents and a supportive family where I can maybe go to Barnes & Noble and buy one book for myself, but I don't have the ability to buy every single book that I want to read, and neither does any other student out there.

Having access to those resources is the standard of equitable education. The law was set to take effect on January 1st, but at the end of December... New this morning, a federal judge temporarily blocks an Iowa law banning some books from school libraries. Judge Stephen Locker agreed with those suing, writing that the law was incredibly broad, banning crucial history books, classic fiction, and even guides to help students avoid sexual assault. A district court judge temporarily blocked the parts of the Iowa law relating to book bans,

handing a victory to Penguin Random House. The state's attorney general filed an appeal and said she was, quote, deeply disappointed in the court's decision. For a lot of company executives these days, taking a stand on culture war issues can be a landmine because they're often wary of blowback and boycotts. I asked Skip if Penguin Random House is concerned about this.

I've seen, you know, posts on different things, and posts from the article that was in the Wall Street Journal about what we're doing, basically stating, you know, I'll never buy another Penguin Random House book again. And I can't let that, and I don't think we as a company are focused so much on that, because we feel that if we are producing and creating and offering stewardship to good authors with voices that people want to hear, that people will be there to buy them, and people will be there to engage in them. So that is what we believe in. there to engage in them. So that is what we believe in. There will be people that will listen to this,

and they'll just focus on the one issue, which is like, I don't want my elementary school student reading about LGBTQ issues, or I don't want them reading about people that are transgender. That's just not something that I want my elementary school kid to be reading. And they might see Penguin and say,

well, Penguin's a company that's basically saying kids should be reading about these issues. How do you navigate that or respond to that? I don't think Penguin Runhouse feels that kids should be reading about these issues. We feel that people should have the right to read about these issues if they so choose. to read about these issues, if they so choose. That's the big differential. We're not looking to impose an ideology. We're not looking to impose our viewpoint.

What we are looking is for both the ability for a person to have the freedom to read, but also we want to have and value the freedom to be read. And that's what we are doing for being good stewards for our authors. That's all for today, Tuesday, February 27th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.