The Journal. - Mattel Bets Big on Barbie

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

"Barbie," the highly anticipated movie based on the iconic doll, hits theaters this weekend. But making the movie didn't come without challenges. We spoke with the head of Mattel Films, Robbie Brenner, about the creative push and pull to make the movie, whether it can be called a "feminist film," and Mattel's plans to open up its toy chest for more movies. Further Reading: - ‘Barbie’ Review: Beyond Her Ken  - World’s Strangest Double Feature: ‘Barbie,’ Then ‘Oppenheimer’  Further Listening: - With Great Power, Part 1: Origin Story  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, a new movie hits theaters about an American icon that's been in homes around the world for decades. Hey Barbie, can I come to your house tonight? Sure. I don't have anything big planned, just a giant blowout party with all the Barbies and planned choreography and a bespoke song. You should stop by. It's a giant blowout party with all the Barbies and planned choreography and a bespoke song. You should stop by. Barbie. The movie's release marks the doll's first live-action appearance on the big screen ever. And it leans in on everything Barbie.

It's pink. It's fun. It's got an all-star cast. And so far, it's popular. Early estimates suggest the movie's first weekend could bring in more than $100 million. We talked about the early excitement with Robbie Brenner, a producer of the movie and the head of Mattel Films. I mean, it's obviously, it's the most exciting thing on everybody's mind right now. But it's like, it's everywhere you turn. I mean, my phone levitates daily from photos,

you know, around the world and bus stops in here and Times Square and this. Everywhere we just turn 50 monuments pink, you know, around the United States, you know, around the world actually. How does that feel to you, being everywhere? I think it's incredible. I think it's like, it's absolutely amazing.

I feel like people have Barbie mania and like they're excited and it's pink and it's happy and like we need happiness in the world right now. But getting the movie made wasn't all sunshine and dream houses. Robbie said she had to show Mattel that making movies wasn't the same as making toys. Obviously, there was a huge education that needed to happen for the people internally at Mattel. And so I was sort of like the person responsible for explaining, OK, well, you know, I know these things feel scary. And by the way, you are going to white knuckle it the whole way through because this is your brand. This is your baby.

You know, you are the ambassadors of Barbie. We talked to Robbie about the creative push and pull to make the Barbie movie, whether it can be called a feminist movie, and Mattel's plans to open up its toy chest for Hollywood. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Kate Leinbaugh. It's Friday, July 21st. and power. I'm Kate Linebaugh. It's Friday, July 21st. Coming up on the show, how Barbie the doll became Barbie the movie. Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business.

Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more. Oh, here they are, I think. Hello. Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Good.

Come on in. Robbie, if you can sit there. Scott, if you can... Do you want to have headphones on or not? No, I don't think so. This is going to be uncomfortably close to your face. Okay. I'm going to, like, lick it. Don't. You can lick it. No, that's okay. You know, because we have your face. Okay. Like, lick it. Don't, you can lick it. No, that's okay.

Because we have COVID cleaning. Right. Robbie Brenner and I met earlier this week at the Wall Street Journal office in New York, a couple days before the release of the Barbie movie, which I still haven't seen. Before becoming the head of Mattel Films, Robbie was an indie movie producer. She produced dramas about sensitive topics like the KKK in the movie Burden and

abortion in the movie Call Jane. And her most well-known movie before Barbie? Dallas Buyers Club, the 2013 film starring Matthew McConaughey and Jared Leto about the AIDS crisis. That movie won three Oscars and was nominated for Best Picture. So why did you go to Mattel? Like you have this film career of like the Dallas Buyers Club and Call Jane, like what about toy movies drew you? Well, I think that, you know, with those movies, first of all, I have a lot of years, but I mean, Dallas Buyers Club took 20 years. Call Jane took eight years.

These movies were starting to sort of like chip away at my soul, at my life. But, you know, it's also the world is changing, I think with streaming, with, you know, with Netflix and with other streaming platforms. In 2017, 18, I just started thinking to myself, like, these independent movies are just becoming harder and harder, like they're impossible to get made. So if you can't beat them, join them. Well, somewhat, I guess. I mean, look, I feel like I've had an amazing career in the independent space. I'm so proud of all these movies that I've made. And each one has such a special place. And

I think they all have a real reason to exist. But I just wanted to do something different. And this opportunity just kind of fell out of the sky. And it was not what I was searching for. It wasn't what I imagined. But it happened like that. And I just went with it. All right. And that took you to Barbie, the film. But did you have Barbies as a young person in the world? I could lie and say I did, but I didn't. I was more of like a Hot Wheels girl. I didn't say I did, but I did, and I was more of like a Hot Wheels girl.

I was a little bit of like a tomboy. I liked to ride horses and play with cars, but my daughters loved dolls. My youngest daughter, India, loved Barbies. I'm embarrassed to say how many we have in the garage. They're all like in the splits and naked and the hair cut off and the whole thing. Exactly. So I experienced it vicariously through her. Yeah. Mattel has been trying to make a Barbie movie

for a long time. It tried to do one with Amy Schumer, with Anne Hathaway. Those didn't pan out. And it tried working with different studios, Sony, Universal, before partnering with Warner Brothers. This film stars Margot Robbie as Barbie, a doll who has an existential crisis when she ventures out of Barbie land and into the real world. Some things have been happening that might be related.

Cold shower, falling off my roof. And my heels are on the ground. You know, we always knew that making sort of a traditional Barbie movie was not something we wanted to do. We wanted to do something that felt bold and authentic and just different. And so Margot had mentioned, you know, why don't we hire Greta?

Right. Greta Gerwig. Greta Gerwig. Yes. And I was like, I mean, hello. I mean, that would be the most, that would be the dream. Yeah. Why don't we? Exactly. Like, wow, Greta Gerwig. Do you think she wants to do Barbie? I mean, maybe. I mean, and it turned out. What was the pitch? Her pitch, she loves Barbie. She thought it was the most exciting thing. She played with Barbies.

She grew up with Barbies and— Greta. Greta. Huh. Yes. And so she's like, I love this idea. I want to do this. I think this could be exciting and incredible and different. And I want to write it with Noah. Noah Baumbach, her partner. They must have wanted independence, freedom to do whatever they wanted.

Look, I think when you hire, you know, an incredible filmmaker and auteur like Greta Gerwig, then that's what you sign up for. You give them independence. You give them freedom. You don't sit there and micromanage them and tell them what is it going to be and what's going to happen in act one. And then when you go to act two, then what happens? I mean, to me, it's like having something that feels like you don't know. It's, you know, you got to run at that. Greta Gerwig is known for making personal dramas and comedies, not summer blockbusters. She made Lady Bird and Little Women. And I'm so sick of people saying that love is just all a woman is fit for. I'm so sick of it. Making a summer blockbuster with an arty director for a

toy company? Now that could be complicated. Greta Gerwig and Margot Robbie, in an interview with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, talked about writing the script for Mattel. Well, luckily we made a crazy enough script that it was literally the whole thing. I was just saying, that almost worked in our favor that the list of things to be scared of for them was so long that it wasn't one thing to focus on. I think if they had like three things to be scared of, we would have lost all three battles. to focus on. I think if they had like three things to be scared of, we would have lost all three battles.

You're the person who's like managing between the world of auteur directors and Mattel corporate America. Yes, it was a very interesting tightrope that I was walking because having been a person that obviously

supports filmmakers and breaks a lot of first-time filmmakers and loves telling stories that are out of the box, that are provocative and have something to say about the world, that's a space that I'm very, very comfortable in. That's a space that I like to live in. And here I am working at a toy company who's never made a movie before, who has, you know, basically been nurturing Barbie for 64 years. The discussions around the movie were extensive. At one point, Robbie had a six-hour conversation with Gerwig

and Mattel president Richard Dixon. And I think that, A, you know, he's not in the movie business, so in reading the script, I think there were things like, would Barbie say that? Would Barbie do that? Or there's a banter about Barbie and who she is and what she represents. And so I think it was more about just like the questioning of like, oh my God, I'm protective of Barbie. You know, nobody can be mean to Barbie. There were no arguments. It was actually like a great, very like friendly, fun conversation to talk about, you know, what Greta was thinking and what that meant to her. And, you know, Richard sort of questioning certain things. And it was like it was a great conversation. I think at the end he was like, oh, I get it. I get it. What is its take on beauty? I think that, you know, everybody is beautiful and you don't

need to be perfect. It's like, it's not about like looking this way or looking that way. Obviously, beauty comes from within. And in the history of Barbie, she's been often criticized for many things and in part for kind of standardizing beauty, like one way to be both like body type and skin color. How did you address that in this film? Right. Well, I mean, I think over a decade ago, Mattel made the conscious decision that Barbie didn't reflect sort of the way that the world looked. So there are so many different body types and ethnicities in the line of Barbie now. And in our Barbie movie, the world clearly reflects the world that we live in today, having Barbies of all color and all ethnicity. But in your Barbie movie, Margot Robbie is Barbie.

She plays stereotypical Barbie, but we have many other Barbies. There are many Barbies and there are many Kens. We all know stereotypical Barbie. She's the skinny, tall, blonde Barbie. For decades, she was criticized for being too commercial, too materialistic, and for perpetuating unattainable beauty standards. Now, Mattel makes Barbie in nine body types, 35 skin tones, and 97 hairstyles. And she has many careers, from a ballerina to an astronaut to a yoga teacher.

We checked, but there isn't currently a podcaster Barbie. Rechecked, but there isn't currently a podcaster Barbie. And Margot Robbie called the movie a feminist movie, but you have said in other interviews that it's not a feminist movie. That's actually not what I said, but people grab a piece of what you say and they don't print the rest of it. Okay, so let's reframe. Is this movie a feminist movie? I think it's a movie for everybody. I mean, certainly, you know, Barbie has been empowering women for 64 years. So there is, yes, it is about female empowerment and supporting each other and women standing together.

So I understand, like, you know, when Greta talks about it being a feminist movie or Margot, certainly I think that's a piece of it. I think it's a movie for everybody. I think it's a movie for everybody. I think it's like, as I was saying before, it is not just that. There is something in this movie for everybody. What do you hope audiences take away from the movie? You know, first of all, I hope that it's like a fun, commercial, incredible kind of experience and sort of ride that sort of takes them away from whatever they're going through. I mean, it's incredibly entertaining. But when you add Greta Gerwig and to the mix and the way that she interprets all of this and the way she contextualized it, I mean, it's a very profound movie. I think that people are not only going to go once, I think they're

going to go twice and another time. They can't because they have to see Oppenheimer too. Yes, exactly. The double feature. And I know what it means. If the Nazis have a bomb. Oppenheimer. The Christopher Nolan biopic about the making of the atomic bomb. It's also being released this weekend.

Oppenheimer is a one-off movie. But Barbie is just the beginning for Mattel Films. How Mattel plans to expand its cinematic universe is coming up. Your teen requested a ride, but this time, not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your teen to your Uber account today. Need a great reason to get up in the morning? Add your team to your Uber account today. Ontario. Since launching Mattel Films in 2018, the toy company has announced big plans to turn much of its intellectual property into movies. What is the long-term goal for Mattel Films?

What is the long-term goal for Mattel Films? To make unbelievable content that also sells toys and that really kind of stands the test of time. I mean, to continue to make movies like Barbie and amplify these brands. Is it to make the IP more profitable? Well, I think, you know, we're not making movies because we don't want to make any money. I mean, certainly that's the goal. But I think the first goal that we have is we want to tell great stories. That's the execution. With great voices. Yes, of course we want to make money. I mean, it's a publicly traded company, and we would like to make money, of course. That's why I think you do anything in life,

so that you can see some sort of, you know, financial rewards in addition to the other rewards. The track record of toy companies using their IP to make movies is mixed. There have been successes, like the Lego franchise and the Transformers from Hasbro. But there have been stumbles too. Like in 2012 with Battleship, a Hasbro movie about the strategy game. What other toys are going to get their own movies? Oh, God. Well, we've announced, you know, 14. We have many, many more that we're going to announce over the next couple of months and many more in development that we haven't even announced yet.

So we're doing a Polly Pocket movie with Lena Dunham directing, and she wrote the script with Lily Collins starring in it. It's been great developing it with the two of them. We're doing Major Matt Mason with Tom Hanks, and Akiva Goldsman wrote the script. There are also plans for a magic eight-ball film, a Hot Wheels movie produced by J.J. Abrams that was described as, quote, grounded and gritty, and a Rock'em Sock'em Robots movie starring Vin Diesel. Are you doing a movie about Uno? Yes, we're developing a movie about Uno. How?

Well, that's for the future. We'll talk about that in the future. Like, are you going to have a Mattel cinematic universe with, like, Barbie playing Uno in a Hot Wheels car? Wow. Well, I mean, at some point that might happen, but I think for right now— The endgame of Mattel is just like— Well, certainly we have all the IP to do that. It's like the Target toy aisle.

Exactly. We could make the greatest interactive Mattel movie ever with all of our IP. This plan has had some hiccups. After we spoke with Robbie, Variety reported that a movie featuring Mattel toy He-Man was axed by Netflix over budget concerns. And then how do these partnerships work? How does the profit share work with Warner Brothers? In terms of the profit share, well, we're producers, so they license our IP, and we're full producers. We don't just sit back. We actually have a seat at the table.

We're involved creatively. We work with other producers, and we collaborate with Warner Brothers in terms of the story, in terms of the cast, in terms of the cut of the movie, and the editing, and so we're involved in all aspects and are full partners. And kind of high level, going from the movies you used to make to now like making blockbusters, how do you reflect on the push in Hollywood to like this mass market consumer-driven kind of content as opposed to these more kind of quiet independent stories you know I mean obviously each one of them has like a very special place in my heart I feel like with Barbie though I feel like it kind of does both in a way I mean it's not just a big spectacle

I mean it is in the sense that it's like rich in color and music and fashion, as we talked about, but it has a real story that is very emotionally deep and that is provocative. And I do feel like we'll stay with people. And I do think it's a great movie. It's not just a piece of pop culture. It really has something to say. So I feel like, God, the idea that I was involved with something that does both of those things is incredible. But look, I hope the movie business doesn't lose, you know, the smaller, more intimate ones as well. Do you feel daunted by having to make the next movie after this? I mean, certainly. Look, we'll see what there's the movies coming out. You know, you never know what happens.

I think the movie is fantastic. And I think that people are very, very excited to see Barbie. And I think with the other movies, we're going to approach them in the same way with just finding interesting, authentic voices. And we want to tell great stories that feel different. And that's the way we're going to approach everything. You can't always win. We will try to do that. But the movie business, there are so many variables, the release date, who's involved. There are just so many variables. The color palette.

The color palette. I always say making a bad movie is hard. So try to make a good movie. You know, it's like it's impossible. You have to thread the needle like so, so, so, so, so perfectly. I think people need to go to the movies. I think it's just about like the box office and life and like let's not lose people going to the movie theater. Let's not get isolated in our home theaters by ourselves clicking and swiping on our phones. Like the movies need to stay alive and we need to go to the movies. All right, I'll go to the movies. I'll see it. Amazing.

Yeah. Good. With popcorn. Yeah. Robbie, thanks so much. Oh, thank you so much. And I'm so excited for you to see Barbie. Please go see it.

You will really enjoy it. That's all for today, Friday, July 21st. Special thanks to Ben Fritz for his help on this episode. The Journal is a co-production of Gimlet and The Wall Street Journal. is a co-production of Gimlet and The Wall Street Journal. The show is made by Mahara Dhoni, Annie Baxter, Catherine Brewer, Maria Byrne, Pia Gadkari, Rachel Humphries, Ryan Knudsen, Matt Kwong,

Jessica Mendoza, Annie Minoff, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Alan Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers, Jonathan Sanders, Pierce Singey, Jeevika Verma, Lisa Wang, Catherine Whalen, Our theme music is by So Wiley. Additional music this week from Katherine Anderson, Peter Leonard, Bobby Lord, Emma Munger, Nathan Singapak, Griffin Tanner, So Wiley, and Blue Dot Sessions. Fact-checking by Nicole Pasulka. Thanks for listening. See you Monday.