The Journal. - Pope Francis Has Died. What’s Next for the Catholic Church?

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

On Monday morning, Pope Francis died at 88. The first South American to hold the office, he was known for his commitment to social and economic justice. WSJ’s Margherita Stancati discusses Francis�� legacy and explains what happens next for the Catholic Church. Jessica Mendoza hosts. Further Listening:  - The Return of Religious Films to Hollywood  - The Mormon Church's $100 Billion Secret Fund  Sign up for WSJ’s free What’s News newsletter.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yesterday on Easter Sunday, Pope Francis graced the public with his presence outside the Vatican for the last time. He appeared on the balcony at St. Peter's Basilica. He blessed the crowd that had gathered there for Easter. Cari, fratelli, e sorelli. The Pope seemed very frail and still breathless. Our colleague Margarita Stancari is based in Rome. Pope Francis had a life-threatening

bout with pneumonia recently. Buona Pasqua. He wished everybody a happy Easter. And then he also got on his Pope mobile and drove through the crowd. And that was the last time we saw him in public. So this morning, the Vatican announced that Pope Francis had died. It was a shock because the Pope had appeared a few hours ago yesterday in public, and so it was really not expected. a few hours ago yesterday in public, and so it was really not expected.

At 7.35 a.m. The Vatican said that the Pope had died at 7.35 this morning in his apartment in the Vatican. At the house of the Father. The death of a Pope is a huge deal for the Catholic Church. Popes serve until they die, so whenever Pope changes, they can stay in their office for many years, even decades.

And so with the death of Pope Francis, what's the burning question that you as a reporter and Catholics around the world will have? Well, Pope Francis was in some ways a social justice warrior. He was definitely seen as progressive within the Catholic Church. So the big question looming as the Vatican prepares to elect another Pope is whether that legacy will continue with a new pope or whether he will take it in a different direction. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, April 21st.

Coming up on the show, Pope Francis has died. What's next for the Catholic Church? Who was Pope Francis? Can you tell us a bit about who he was as a person? So Pope Francis was born in Argentina in Buenos Aires in 1936. He was the first of five children. The family was of Italian origin. And he spent his youth in Argentina. That's where he became a priest and where he also first became bishop. Francis was born Jorge Mario Bergoglio and was ordained as a Jesuit when he was in his early 30s. In 2001, he became a cardinal.

He built a reputation for living modestly, cooking his own meals and taking public transit. And he was known for ministering to people in the shanty towns of Buenos Aires. In 2013, he became a surprising pick to lead a worldwide population of Catholics that now exceeds an estimated 1.4 billion people. Francisco. exceeds an estimated 1.4 billion people. A Jesuit pope from Argentina, the first pope in 2,000 years from the New World. Francis was a pope of firsts, the first to come from the Americas.

He was the first pope from the Jesuit order and the first pope to take the name Francis. And he took that name after Saint Francis of Assisi, who was a medieval saint who famously renounced his wealth and embraced a life of poverty. And that is a message that Pope Francis wanted to give at the outset of his papacy and that he stayed true to throughout his reign. After he became Pope, he decided to drive around in a simple car and afford focus. He refused to live in the luxurious apostolic palace, instead choosing a modest apartment

in the Vatican's guest house. And he always made a point of spending time with the poor, with the homeless, and even with prison inmates. Pope Francis washing the feet of 12 women prisoners. Francis brought his personal ethos to the church itself. He criticized corruption in the Vatican Bank, which had been beset with scandal. His efforts there included improving financial transparency and preventing money laundering. And his progressive ideas were reflected in the way he approached issues that the church

has historically opposed. He was much more informal, and he adopted much more lenient positions on issues that ranged from homosexuality to contraception to divorce. And when asked about gay priests, he famously said, you know, if a person is gay and seeks God and has goodwill, who am I to judge him? Who am I to judge? He did show greater openness towards the LGBTQ community. That was something that really displeased more conservative Catholics.

Just today, a group that advocates for LGBTQ Catholics said that Pope Francis had been a gift to the church and to the LGBTQ plus community. But he was still the head of the Catholic Church, which was still conservative. He was quite critical, for example, of what he called gender ideology. So he was progressive within the framework of the Catholic Church, but he was still the Pope. And as Pope, Francis used his voice to influence global issues. He was also very outspoken. He criticized global capitalism. He spoke against wars.

In his most recent address yesterday, he called for an end to conflicts in Gaza, in Ukraine, and in Sudan. He criticized governments for taking a hard line on immigration and repeatedly clashed with the Trump administration over this. He was especially critical of these kind of large-scale deportations. And is that unusual for a pope to speak out in this way?

I think popes have weighed in on current affairs for a long time. Pope Francis was definitely not shy about it. He spoke out his mind and he very often weighed in on political affairs. And for example, he also called on political leaders to reduce carbon emissions and to combat climate change. And he wasn't scared to weigh in on some of the most sensitive social and political issues of his day.

It seems clear to me also that climate change is a problem. The Pope's willingness to speak on sensitive issues and his insistence on living a modest life made him popular around the world. But he also faced a lot of criticism during his papacy, especially from those who felt he didn't do enough to crack down on sexual abuse within the Church. For example, in 2018, the pope had defended a bishop from Chile who was accused of covering

up abuses. Francis later said he'd been misinformed. So no controversy during his reign rivaled the impact of the scandals over the sexual abuse of children by priests. The pope had a no-tolerance policy over the abuse of children, but critics say he could have done more. Just today, Bishop Accountability, which is a watchdog group that documents clergy sexual abuse, said that the Pope should have done more to remove and punish abusers as well as their enablers from the church. And they said that this will tarnish his legacy. For example,

he did not adopt the practice of permanently barring abusers from serving as priests. So broadly speaking, how did the church feel about Francis's approach? Was it generally approved of or did it cause tensions? So Pope Francis was much beloved. He was a very popular pope, but his approach did cause tensions within the Catholic Church. So conservative Catholics, including cardinals and bishops, many of them in the United States, complained that the pope was blurring the lines on doctrine, on issues such as blessings for same-sex couples. They also worried that he was being a bit too liberal

on issues such as celibacy, although ultimately he did not loosen that requirement. So he did cause some tensions within the church. requirement. So he did cause some tensions within the church. What would you say is Francis's legacy? Francis's legacy ultimately is promoting social and economic justice. So focusing on these quite concrete objectives more than, you know, in traditional moral teachings. He showed flexibility on the Church's traditional moral teachings, but really pushed hard when it came to addressing injustices and speaking out against conflicts.

Over the course of his papacy, Francis also wanted to broaden the Church's global reach. He made it a point to elevate more leaders from beyond Europe and the Church's major population centers. Is there the expectation that his approach will continue with the next pope? One of the pope's most concrete legacies is the fact that he picked two-thirds of the cardinals who will then be selecting the new pope. So there is a good chance that his legacy will uplift him. Francis died Monday morning at the age of 88.

The cause of death was a stroke, according to a medical bulletin released by the Vatican. What's ahead for the Catholic Church is after the break. talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable but it could save a life here's a way to start a conversation your family is going over to your neighbors home for dinner for the first time how would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home hey hey we're so excited for tonight before we come over though may I ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home?

Our guns are stored securely, locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome. Learn how to have the conversation at AgreeToAgree.org, brought to you by the Ad Council. The death of Pope Francis has left the administration of the Catholic Church to the Vatican's Camerlengo, or Chamberlain. He's an Irish-American cardinal named Kevin Farrell, and he'll run the Vatican's day-to-day

affairs until the next pope is elected. So the pope's passing will lead to a period of mourning, so for a few days, that is what the church and the faithful will focus on. After that, there will be a funeral, and after that, there will be a conclave, that is what the Church and the faithful will focus on. After that, there will be a funeral, and after that, there will be a conclave, which is a gathering of cardinals that will meet in the Vatican in the Sistine Chapel and start choosing a new pope. A conclave is a highly secretive gathering of cardinals, an election for the most powerful

voice in the Catholic Church. 135 cardinals from all over the world will be eligible to vote for the next pope. The cardinals will be shut out from the outside world until the decision is made. The conclave requires two-thirds of the cardinals to agree on who the new pope will be. All cardinals under the age of 80 will get to participate in the election. It's significant that Pope Francis himself has appointed about two-thirds of the cardinals who will be participating in the conclave. And how long does this usually take?

It's hard to say. It can take days. It can take longer than that. But usually, it's a process that takes a few days and that is marked by white smoke coming from the roof of the Scythian Chapel. Are there any clues as to who might be next in line for the papacy? It's extremely hard to tell.

When Pope Francis became pontiff 12 years ago, no one expected he would be the chosen one. So we'll have to wait and see. Among the eligible candidates is the Vatican's Secretary of State, who likely has the clout to assemble enough support. There's also a Cardinal from Hungary, who's seen as a serious conservative contender. Other candidates include a Congolese Archbishop,

who has stood against blessings for same-sex couples, and a former Archbishop from the Philippines, who's been called the Asian Francis. from the Philippines who's been called the Asian Francis. What kind of church will this next pope inherit? The new pope will be inheriting a church that is a lot more global than the previous church. For most of its history, the Vatican, for instance, produced European popes. Pope Francis already marked a break in the past because he was from South America,

and I think we'll see that tendency will increase. I think we'll increasingly see an international church. We have seen a decline in church attendance in Europe, but other parts of the world have become more important for the Catholic Church in terms of followers and thinking of South America or Africa. So I think the church is evolving, it's transforming, it's going to become less Europe-centric and much more global. But that comes with its own set of challenges because there will be parts of the Catholic

world that are more liberal and others that are much more conservative. And you know, taking care of 1.4 billion faithful will be a challenge for anyone. That's all for today, Monday, April 21st. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Frances X. Rocca and Marcus Walker. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.