The Journal. - The Fight Over Fluoride

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

For decades, the majority of Americans have been drinking tap water with added fluoride to improve oral health. But WSJ’s Kris Maher says that backlash to fluoride is spreading. Nearly 20 communities have halted the practice since October and Utah has now banned adding fluoride to water across the state. This comes after a landmark ruling by a federal judge that the mineral poses an “unreasonable” risk, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has spoken out against it. Ryan Knutson hosts.  Sign up for WSJ’s free What’s News newsletter. Further Listening: -The Fight to Kick Soda Out of Food Stamps   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So, Chris, how are your teeth? So you know, I grew up having a number of cavities, actually. Our colleague Chris Marr has been reporting on one of the biggest debates in teeth, whether or not fluoride should be added to drinking water. For decades, municipalities around the US have been doing this to improve oral health. But recently, fluoride has become more controversial. I have done a lot of reporting on water,

but really, to be honest, fluoride never really hit my radar as an issue until last year. Over the past year, communities across the country have started to reconsider fluoride. There's a shift in town where I think there's just more credence to the position that, you know, fluoride may have been a good thing in the past,

but it just may not be necessary now. It's really gaining some momentum. And last week, Utah became the very first state to ban local governments from adding fluoride to water. Utah taking a side in the renewed debate over fluoride in drinking water. Utah is now the first state to ban fluoride in drinking water. Pushing past opposition from some dentists and health organizations who warn that the move could lead to medical problems for some people.

It's a pretty historic development. Going forward in Utah, cities are not going to be able to add fluoride to their municipal drinking water. And Chris says more bans could be coming. The debate over fluoride is a tricky one, because both sides say they're just looking out for the public's health. And both sides also say that they have the science to back it up.

A lot of emotions get raised when it comes down to people's health, you know, their children's health and it can be very emotionally charged. Sounds like a lot of people are clenching their teeth over this. Yeah, that's a good metaphor. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudson. It's Friday, April 4th. Coming up on the show, the fight over fluoride in America's water. The story of Molly, who is diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. Determined to feel everything she can before she can't feel anything, she decides to leave

her unhappy marriage to explore her sexuality with some encouragement from her best friend Nicky. FX is Dying for Sex, now streaming only on Disney+. Sign up now at DisneyPlus.com. Fluoride is a mineral that occurs naturally in some water sources and can be found in certain foods. It's found in black tea, it's found in different kinds of fish, shrimp, raisins apparently. The history of fluoride science in the US dates all the way back to 1901, when a dentist in Colorado Springs started to study what he called Colorado brown stain.

Initially, what was noticed was that people had brown staining on their teeth, which is now called dental fluorosis. So this is like a cosmetic thing that can happen to your teeth if you have too much fluoride. The dentist realized that people who had this brown stain from too much fluoride were also less likely to have cavities. Over the next few decades, other studies backed up those findings. And in 1945, Grand Rapids, Michigan became the first city in the country

to add fluoride to its water supply. Not with so much fluoride that it would cause those brown stains, but with just enough to reduce cavities. Why did people feel like it was needed back then? Well, dental health was a lot different back then. Just the number of people who had a complete set of teeth in their mouth, you know, was small. It was far more common just to get your teeth pulled.

It was far more common for infections, abscesses, and serious, you know, health consequences to follow on from that. In about 1950, the American Dental Association made its first statement supporting fluoridation, and they just kind of started rolling it out to different communities. In several western towns, children rarely got tooth decay. Why? Their drinking water contained fluoride. By the 1950s, companies started putting fluoride in toothpaste and mouthwash.

Crest introduced its first fluoride toothpaste in 1956. Now, after years of fluoride research, Procter & Gamble proudly announces triumph over tooth decay for everyone everywhere, as it brings you Crest of fluoride research, Procter & Gamble proudly announces triumph over tooth decay for everyone everywhere as it brings you Crest toothpaste with Florestan. It's exclusive fluoride... And you know, by the 60s and 70s that was expanding, so people were getting fluoride in their toothpaste,

they were getting fluoride treatments, mouthwash, all kinds of other ways to get fluoride. And early research seemed to say that fluoride, when it was put in water and available broadly, was something like a miracle defense against cavities, especially when it came to lower income children who often didn't have regular access to dental care. Fluoride helps to remineralize your teeth, so it prevents cavities by basically making the enamel stronger. So yeah, and I think, you know, there were many studies that said that

cavities were reduced by 50% or more, you know, so it was having a huge effect. The CDC said that water fluoridation is one of the greatest, most significant public health achievements of the 20th century. But along with people who thought it was miraculous, there have always been skeptics. There have been scientists who have opposed fluoridation from the start in 1945 when it was first put into water intentionally.

And some of those people have continued to oppose it for years. Why were they skeptical? Fluoride is the only thing that's added to water that is to treat people, you know, health. It's not to make the water safe for people, it's to actually do something in people's bodies. But for a long time, those concerns were considered fringe. For instance, in the 1964 movie Dr. Strangelove, this was the sign that one of the main characters had gone off the deep end. Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist

plot we have ever had to face? But in recent years, new data has given fluoride skepticism new legitimacy. A number of studies have been published over the last decade about the impact of fluoride on the brain and thyroid. Some studies have shown that higher levels of exposure were associated with lower IQ, or ADHD. Other studies showed that it could be harmful to a baby's neurological development. And then, last year, a big report looking into fluoride

was published by the National Toxicology Program. The National Toxicology Program is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. It's a group of federal scientists who look at whether substances or chemicals are toxic. So they investigate chemicals for the federal government. The report, which came out in August, validated some of those concerns about fluoride. It found that at high levels, bubbles double what is allowed in U.S.

drinking water. Fluoride could negatively impact kids. A U.S. government report from the National Toxicology Program concluding that fluoride at one point five milligrams per liter, twice the recommended amount in drinking water, is linked to lower IQ levels in children. So children that had been exposed to fluoride at higher levels had IQ deficits. So fairly earth-shattering for this conclusion to come out. The report found with moderate confidence

that elevated levels of fluoride could be associated with a decrease in IQ. One month after the report came out, a judge issued a major ruling against fluoride. This came after a group of parents had petitioned the Environmental Protection Agency about fluoride. The EPA does not mandate fluoride in water, but what it does do is set the optimal level.

So the judge said that the EPA had to take some kind of regulatory action. You know, he didn't say specifically what the EPA had to do, but he was saying that this is an unreasonable risk. You've got to take some sort of action. I mean, the action could be warning people that there's a risk. It could be lowering the recommended level. So this was a pretty groundbreaking ruling. It caught a lot of people's attention. There's one more thing that's helped bring the fluoride debate into the mainstream. The rise of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

I think fluoride is a poison and it causes severe IQ laws and last week Just before President Trump nominated him to run the Department of Health and Human Services, RFK made a big promise about fluoride. Back in November, he tweeted that the Trump administration would advise all public water systems to get fluoride out of the water. So on day one, you know, Trump was going to get fluoride out of the water. That hasn't happened yet, but it could be getting closer. That's after the break.

The decision about whether or not to put fluoride in the water is generally up to local cities and towns. And now, with everything that's happened, the fluoride debate is catching fire. There's hundreds of places that have meetings scheduled that are planning to take a look at this issue. So hundreds around the country probably, and I would guess nearly every state or every state. Chris attended one of those meetings in February in a town in Florida called Bartow. — It's a city of 21,000 people. It's about an hour east of Tampa.

They had been wrestling with the question of whether to keep Florida in their water. — Bartow held their fluoride town hall in the city's civic center. They had 50 chairs set out for residents, all filled, with more people standing in the back. The two sides of the building were all glass, so one side looked out on two. Some little league fields that were pretty new. Lights were just coming on as the meeting was starting. And there's a podium right over there. And...

Bartho's mayor was running the meeting. Dr. Johnny, are you ready? The first person to speak was a pro-fluoride lobbyist named Dr. Johnny Johnson. He travels around the country attending debates like this one. He is a retired dentist in his 60s. He's also the president of the American Fluoridation Society. So he's one of the most outspoken proponents of fluoride in the country. He often wears a t-shirt that says

fluoridation? F yeah. So that's kind of an expression of his passion for this subject. He must have been excited to be in Florida talking about fluoride. At the town hall in Florida, Johnson ditched the fluoride t-shirt in favor of a button-down and he was serious about his support for fluoride. People die of dental infections that get into their bloodstream. He showed some slides that showed some some mouths that had been really horribly decayed and I think those were striking for people to see. That's horrible.

We don't like to see that at all. He and other dentists argue that, especially low-income people, may really be the ones who will lose out from fluoride being taken out of water because they don't have the best access to dental care necessarily, maybe not even to fluoride toothpaste.

From that perspective, this is potentially very risky for a large segment of the population. Does Johnson or the rest of the dental industry have any financial incentives here? I mean, is there sort of like big fluoride that's trying to protect their business in some way? Really, what they're saying is, it's not a financial issue. It's the patients that they treat. It's the suffering that they see. They don't want people to get cavities. But is anybody making money off the fact that there's fluoride in the water?

And is that influencing this debate in any way? No. I mean, you take a town like Barto or some of these other small communities, they're not spending a ton of money on fluoride or this chemical that creates the fluoride. They're spending maybe $20,000 a year. So it's not a tremendous amount of money. At the town hall, after Johnson finished speaking,

the anti-fluoride camp took the mic. One person there to represent it was Florida's Surgeon General, Dr. Joseph Latipo. Dental health, very important. Fortunately, there are alternatives, right? There's toothpaste, there's mouthwash. This is inexpensive stuff. I mean, this is stuff that people of all income levels can afford Latipose said the benefits of fluoride were outweighed by the risks. This is a very simple issue the cost

From in terms of human health is far too high to be fooling around with this I mean it actually is reckless for anyone who's knowledgeable to have the information and to continue doing it. For now, localities are largely being left to make sense of the research themselves. Something Bartow's mayor said she felt like they shouldn't have to do. This is not our lane. We should be looking at, you know, plan developments and traffic and budget. Health and treating the people of our city should not be our lane.

But we're forced into it because this happened way back when and became the norm. In March, the Bartow City Council came to a decision. Bartow city leaders have decided to continue adding fluoride to the city's water supply. The vote was split during an emotionally charged meeting last night. — While Bartow decided to keep fluoride, other places are coming to different conclusions. Like in Utah last week, where the governor signed a bill banning the addition of fluoride in drinking water. One thing Chris says he's watching for now is what RFK Jr. does. The thing I'm looking for is definitely to see if there's going to be some federal guidance

from EPA or from RFK Jr. himself or the Department of Health and Human Services telling public water systems to either take for it out. Just as an advisory, I think that would have a really significant effect. With these fights happening all across the country, is there a sense right now that fluoride is generally winning or losing? I think right now the anti-fluoride movement has the upper hand. There seem to be more places, you know, first of all, more places are putting into a vote.

And then when they do, they're voting the fluoride out. Even Johnny Johnson will say, he's scrambling. He's working constantly to try to address these, put out these fires around the country and to try to fight this fight. And, you know, I think he's losing more of these battles than he ever did. That's all for today, Friday, April 4th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.

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