The Journal. - The High Pressure Tactics Gloria Allred Uses On Her Own Clients

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Gloria Allred’s lifelong crusade against men accused of sexual misconduct has made her a high profile feminist lawyer. But little is known about what happens between Allred and her clients, mostly women, behind the scenes. WSJ’s Khadeeja Safdar reports.  See the Journal live! Take our survey!  Further Reading: -The High-Pressure Tactics Attorney Gloria Allred Uses—On Her Own Clients  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gloria Allred is one of America's best known lawyers. Women have found their power and they're not going to be silent anymore. They're going to stand up for themselves. The 83 year old is the go to lawyer for women's rights cases in the US. She has a reputation as a tough and tireless advocate for her clients. And she's represented women against powerful men, like Harvey Weinstein, R. Kelly, Bill Cosby, and Donald Trump. Truth matters.

Women matter. Those who allege that they were victims of sexual misconduct or sexual assault by Mr. Trump matter. Allred's famous for holding press conferences. In front of cameras and microphones, she hugs and comforts tearful clients. The public deserves to know if Mr. Cosby is a saint or a sexual predator. I can remember talking to somebody about her going, wow, thank God there's a woman out there who's taking care of women.

Caroline Wallner became a client of Allred's firm in 2021. And I thought she was really amazing. You know, I still actually feel like she's done a lot of good bringing things to the forefront when maybe they wouldn't have been before. You know, I mean, sometimes there are two truths to things. This might be one of those times in my situation. Caroline has a different story to tell about Allred. She claimed that Allred's firm didn't properly investigate her allegations and later tried

to prevent her from speaking out. She talked to our colleague Khadija Safdar. So do you regret working with Gloria All-Ride's law firm? Absolutely. It's been like the scariest roller coaster ride with this because when you feel like people are starting to understand and then all of a sudden you get even more scared than you were before

because they're constantly trying to put a muzzle on you. That's what this is all about, like not talking. In her reporting on Allred, Khadijah has spoken to dozens of people, including former clients, lawyers, and people who've approached Allred's firm. Many said Allred's public image is at odds with their experience behind the scenes.

Some clients said Allred's firm ignored their wishes and instead of helping them find their voice, silenced them through non-disclosure agreements. Gloria Allred said that the journal didn't highlight her firm's approximately 10,000 happy clients. She's described the journal's reporting as a hit job and an unprecedented attack on her and her law firm. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Kate Leinbaugh.

It's Friday, March 14th. I'm Kate Leinbaugh. It's Friday, March 14th. Coming up on the show, the high-pressure tactics Gloria Allred uses on her own clients. I'm going back to university for zero dollar delivery fee, up to five percent off orders and five percent Uber credits back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get Uber One for students. With deals this good, everyone wants to be a student. Join for just $4.99 a month.

Savings may vary. Eligibility and member terms apply. Grab your friends. I thought you'd be dead by now. Get to the theater and experience the movie audiences are calling an adrenaline rush of a good time. It's a big screen blast. Find a badass.

I know, all right. Nova Kane, now playing. Caroline Wallner accused the acclaimed author, Neil Gaiman, of sexual exploitation. She said that it happened when she was a caretaker for a property Gaiman owned. Gaiman denied the allegations. Wallner approached Gloria Allred's firm, Allred Morroco and Goldberg, in 2021. She wanted to find a lawyer who could take on a case against such a high profile figure.

And that's when I just thought, well, I guess I could go to the best Gloria Allred and looked her up on the internet and I emailed her and probably three hours later or something they called me. What was your state of mind at the time you were approaching the firm? I was probably like one of the lowest periods I've ever been in my life. I was not in a good place at all. And I did tell them that, you know. Caroline spoke with Allred's legal partner, Nathan Goldberg, and what happened surprised her.

When she told him Gaiman's lawyer's name, he told her that he actually knew that lawyer and he would call him. And you know, I don't think after that conversation, I really ever got to go into the sex abuse and what had happened. Like I don't think he ever knew any of the details. Maybe I had told him a couple of them. I can't really remember.

I was asked like not a lot of questions about that. After that call, things moved fast. Within a day of retaining Allred's firm, Caroline had signed a settlement with Gaiman. It included a non-disclosure agreement, or NDA, that both she and Gaiman signed. These agreements prevented her from suing Gaiman or speaking about her allegations against him to family, friends, and associates. She and Gaiman were also asked to destroy photos, texts, and videos they sent each other.

But the settlement wasn't the only thing Caroline signed over those quick few days. When she agreed to be a client of Allred's firm, she signed a retainer agreement, basically a contract between a lawyer and a client. Within this contract was something called a forced arbitration clause. This clause is found in many types of contracts, and in this case was meant to prevent Caroline from taking the firm to court or publicizing her experience with the firm. The thing that makes it interesting for Gloria, she has spoken out publicly against forced arbitration clauses. That's our colleague Khadija Safdar again.

And there's like even some language on her website where she talks about these private arbitrations. She say they quote, deprive survivors an opportunity to be heard and seek justice in a system of checks and balances. So she's criticized these agreements, but then she employs them in her own retainer agreements. It like protects Allred and her firm.

From public scrutiny. So like you can still seek recourse against her in an arbitration, but like the public wouldn't know about it. She said when I asked her about it that she does it because she's trying to protect women who have NDAs from opening themselves up to financial penalties. Caroline said when she signed the settlement agreement, her focus wasn't on her ability to speak about her case. She said she believed at the time she was Gaiman's only accuser. Did you have time to read the NDA? I mean, he said you should read the NDA, but the NDA was so long,

and it was not language that I was used to at all. I did not know what a lot of it even meant, and we didn't go over the NDA together at all. In a statement, Allred said, quote, if the client does not wish to sign a confidentiality clause in a settlement agreement, the client always has a right to reject the settlement and proceed to file a civil lawsuit.

Caroline said her top priority at the time was finding a place to live for herself and her three daughters after Gaiman had evicted them. I wasn't in the frame of mind to even make a decision about an NDA to tell you the truth. I didn't have a place to live. And it's kind of like when you're in a situation like that, it's like, wait a minute, what is right in front of you?

Right in front of you is you need like a roof over your girl's head, you know, and like groceries in a refrigerator. And that's how I was thinking. I wasn't thinking about the fact that the NDA was going to like, call me hostage for the rest of my life. Allred's firm negotiated a $300,000 settlement for Caroline from Gaiman. Caroline tried to move on with her life. She stuck to the terms of her NDA and didn't discuss the case.

But last summer, she listened to a podcast that changed all that. It was called Master, the Allegations Against Neil Gaymon. In it, other women made accusations against Gaymon. Gaymon has denied those allegations. How did the podcast make you feel? Completely sick. I mean, what happened to us was different, very different. But so much of it was the same.

Caroline began to feel strongly that she should speak out about what happened to her. The only way to take care of yourself when you've experienced a trauma is to talk about it and to come to terms with it and try to understand that it was not your fault. And so to not be able to talk about that and to have to keep that silent is really, really bad for your mental health. And I think that's one of the things that keeps people traumatized is re-traumatizing. It absolutely is. Caroline wanted to speak out publicly and support the women.

She contacted Goldberg, her lawyer at Allred's firm, to ask if she could. And he said, listen, don't be stupid. If you break your NDA, you are breaking the law. You signed that NDA and you have to follow it by law. Don't be a fool. You're one of the lucky ones. If you do break this NDA, I will no longer represent you."

That's what he said and he hung up. I hung up. How did you feel after that call? I was totally crying. I was crying so hard because it was really, it was aggressive. It was an aggressive phone call. Caroline did break her NDA. Eventually she hired a different lawyer to send a letter to Allred's firm alleging malpractice.

Allred's firm responded, saying that Caroline couldn't sue or publicize her experience due to her retainer agreement. But there was more. Allred's firm made clear they had recently obtained what they called sexually provocative texts, photos, and videos from Gayman's lawyer. These were materials that Caroline had sent Gayman during the period she accused him of sexual exploitation.

Caroline said she was surprised that one of Allred's lawyers, John West, would be in possession of these documents. But he was using this to scare me and make my lawyer think that he had all this sexually provocative stuff that would prove that he didn't have a case. Caroline told Khadijah that she didn't send any nude photos or videos. It was just so duplicitous and shocking and I don't know, it just felt really kind of like, I don't know what the word is for something like that, like Machiavellian or something. Caroline and Gaiman have now both filed arbitration claims against the other for breaching the terms of their NDA.

Allred said she can't respond to specific client allegations because of ethics rules and other legal reasons. Caroline told Khadija that looking back at her experience with Allred's firm, she wished she'd been encouraged to go to the police. She also talked about signing the NDA. There's a problem with signing an NDA, and that is with somebody who is a serial predator, and that is that you protect them because you have to be silent about that, so you don't go on the record. And I don't know what to do about that.

You know, that's like a societal issue that I think has to be talked about. Khadijah spoke with dozens of people who felt silenced or let down by Alred. Effie's story is next. Wanna own part of the airline you flew with on your last vacation? Or part of the company that makes your favorite triple shot latte with extra foam? What about owning part of a company that one day could send you on a tour of outer space? Now you can.

With partial shares from TD Direct Investing, you can own part of your favorite companies. Just pick a stock and decide how much to spend on the share. It's a piece of cake. Learn more at td.com slash partial shares. TD, ready for you. Efrasina Angelova was 24 when she posted on her Instagram page The The The The

The The The The The The The The

The The discussed rape and cannibalism. They went viral online and led to other women making allegations against the star. Hammer has denied the allegations. Efrasina, who goes by Effie, spoke to our colleague Khadijah. We're going to go back to when you first approached Gorya Alred to help you. Why did you approach her? I was speaking out about my rape and a lot of people were recommending that I get a lawyer. And a lot of those people were recommending Gloria specifically because, you know,

she's known as this like feminist icon that like helps victims and protects victims and fights for victims' rights. So she has a reputation. Effie became a client of Allred's in 2021. And like Caroline, she was asked to sign a retainer agreement with the forced arbitration clause. She requested that the law firm remove it, but they refused. Effie ended up signing the agreement.

Allred would help Effie pro bono to provide evidence to law enforcement and act as her media spokesperson when and if needed. It didn't include settlement negotiations or filing a lawsuit. Effie didn't sue Hammer, but she did file a police report and Allred helped Effie provide evidence to the police. The LA District Attorney in 2023 decided not to bring charges against Hammer. But during the criminal investigation, Allred told Effie that she shouldn't speak publicly. And so Gloria telling me to not talk and she actually had me take down the screenshots from my Instagram of the messages that went viral which Felt very silencing because I had just finally started finding my voice. So it was not good. It was very strange

Effie said she wanted to speak out for herself, and Allred offered options. She and Effie spoke on a call, and Effie shared a recording with Khadijah. On the call, Allred presented Effie with options, like interviews that would include Allred, a potential movie deal, and also licensing photos of the victim with the accused. Allred referred to that as the money shot. Maybe they would license photos if you were alone, but I mean, that's what we call the money shot, that key. That's the most important photo.

But Effie pushed back, saying she didn't want to make any money from her experience. No, it's not my goal to make money off of any of those. Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying, there's nothing wrong. I like my clients to have their money, and their principles, and be portrayed the light most famous. I mean, I like it all.

Yeah. So, you don't have to be defensive about getting money. Allred continued. I've never had a man say, oh,, don't get me in and run it. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I know. So I'm just saying, so women are socialized to think there's something wrong with that.

Effie said she never sold her story or licensed any photos to a media outlet. And then she kept saying that I have to make a decision and badgering me about you have to make all these decisions. And then she gives you two days. And so it's like, you know, making major decisions about speaking out about your rape and your abuse and your trauma. Like those are major decisions. You shouldn't be making them in a span of like immediately or two days, you know. So you have to decide what's your priority. When do you want to tell me?

Well, I'll think about it and as soon as I think about it, I'll let you know. No, not as soon as you think about it. Give yourself a deadline. Allred steered Effie toward doing a press conference, telling her it was important for the public to see her. It was held online in March, 2021. Thank you for coming today. I'm attorney Gloria Allred, and I'll be making a statement.

And then my client Effie will be making a statement. Effie appeared on screen and tearfully read a statement with her allegations against Hammer. He abused me mentally, emotionally, and sexually. How did you feel about that at the time? So it was very scary for me. It was very like she steered me into that direction. And then it just felt like the whole time it was basically her guiding me to do it. And I would have never thought of doing such a thing myself.

On a call about a month later, Effie told Allred she was suffering panic attacks. Effie shared a recording of the call with Khadijah. It was because I was having a panic attack. Oh, come on. Get a hold of yourself, all Khadijah. It was because I was having a bad time. Oh, come on, get a hold of yourself, all right? How old are you? 24? Get a hold of yourself.

In a statement, Allred said, quote, I practice tough love with clients and potential clients. She also said this to Effie. I'm giving you my tough luck. After Khadijah's story ran, Allred put a statement up on her website. She said that her firm informs their clients of the options, benefits, and risks,

and is honest about what is possible. Quote, Not only do I speak truth to power, I speak truth to clients. And because I am honest, I often tell them things that they do not want to hear, because they deserve to be informed of the risks that they face. Not long after the press conference, Effie was asked if she would take part

in a documentary about Armie Hammer's family, which she declined. She sent Allred an email saying she didn't want to be included. Allred replied a month later, saying she hadn't been retained for this purpose. In August 2022, a trailer of the documentary called House of Hammer was released. Allred was in it, discussing Effie's case. I was devastated. My family was devastated. My parents, it was shocking to me because she knew how much against the making of the documentary series I was. And I was very outspoken about that on my social media and to her. And so she was very aware that I was against it, that it was traumatizing for me, that I did not want it to be made. And so for her to then, behind my back, go and participate in it, while, in my opinion, very deliberately

not telling me that she was doing this. How did that change your relationship with Glory Allred? It just completely destroyed it. It didn't change it. It ended it. I was like, I'm done with her. Allred eventually resigned as Effie's lawyer after Effie complained to a reporter about Allred's participation in the documentary. Now, I never refer people to her.

And if somebody tells me that they're looking for a lawyer, I give them other recommendations. I never refer her to them because I know what she's like. So I cannot risk putting someone else through something like that. We asked Allred to respond to the allegations that some women felt repeatedly bullied and re-victimized by her firm. Allred said she often tells clients things that they don't want to hear, because they deserve to be informed of the risks that they face. She said clients need to know that taking on the rich, the powerful, and the famous will be very challenging for them.

Quote, in order to win rights, they are going to need to be courageous and make sacrifices. They are going to need to be courageous and make sacrifices. We can't do it for them. We can only do it with them. Some of the women you spoke with had been allegedly assaulted by celebrities, and now they're going to the celebrity law firm and they're feeling like they're, they alleged they were taken advantage of. Yeah, like Caroline said this to me at one point, that I just feel like everywhere I go,

it's like you're being bullied over and over and over again and being beat down and beat down. And that's how some of them described it to me, just feeling like victimized and then victimized again and then again and again. What's your takeaway from your reporting here? This law firm is a business and they look to maximize the settlements and they try to do them quickly and efficiently. try to do them quickly and efficiently. And that is sometimes at odds with the image of an advocate that's a justice seeker that is being portrayed publicly.

That's all for today, Friday, March 14th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. The shows made by Katherine Brewer, Pia Gadkari, Rachel Humphreys, Sophie Coddner, Ryan Knudsen, Matt Kwong, Colin McNulty, Jessica Mendoza, Annie Minoff, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Alessandra Rizzo, Alan Rodriguez-Espinosa, Heather Rogers, Pierce Singie, Jeevika Verma, Lisa Wang, Katherine Whalen, Tatiana Zamis, and me, Kate Limbaugh, with help from Trina Menino. Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapok, and Peter Leonard.

Our theme music is by So Wiley. Additional music this week from Peter Leonard, Nathan Singapok, Griffin Tanner, and Blue Dot Sessions. Fact-checking by Mary Mathis. Thanks for listening. See you Monday.