The Journal. - The Hospital at the Center of Israel’s War on Hamas

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

On Monday, Israeli troops reached Gaza’s largest hospital, Al-Shifa where Israel says Hamas conceals a major command center. WSJ’s Chao Deng and Margherita Stancati discuss what's happening at the hospital, where thousands of people, including patients and doctors, are trapped because of the fighting.  Further Listening: - For Palestinians Trapped in Gaza, There’s No Way Out  - The War Between Israel and Hamas  Further Reading: - Israeli Forces Reach Gate of Gaza’s Largest Hospital  - Israel Pushing for Hamas to Surrender Stricken Al-Shifa Hospital  - Gaza’s Al-Shifa Hospital Goes Dark at Center of Israel-Hamas Battle Zone  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the last few days, one specific area in Gaza has become a focus for Israel's war against Hamas. Gaza's biggest hospital, al-Shifa. Al-Shifa Hospital, Gaza's largest, now a battleground. Israel's accusing Hamas fighters of hiding in hospitals and using the Shifa hospital complex as its main command center. A dire and desperate situation, essentially saying that the hospital has stopped its basic functions. Our colleague Chow Deng has been reporting on the hospital. What happened in the last couple of days is that it became very clear that the Israeli military was closing in on the hospital. Doctors inside were saying that they were hearing more explosions outside, and so

essentially the hospital became sealed off. Were you able to reach anybody in there? I was. You know, I've been able to speak to some doctors who remained at the hospital. I've also been in touch with this nurse and he used to be able to make daily trips to Shifa. And on Saturday, he said that, you know, he basically risked his life walking the 300 meters from his office to the hospital. And when he got to the emergency ward of the hospital, he said he couldn't believe what he was seeing that there were very few medical staff around and still hundreds of injured patients and those patients I couldn't even believe

that he had made it to the hospital because they knew that the explosions and the gunfire outside was so bad and this nurse said that there was very little food and water very little medical supplies in the hospital he kind of did what he could it sounded like to sort of bandage up people and provide some basic services but by the end of the day he was saying that he was so thirsty and he felt like he needed to head back because there was no water at the hospital. And he was walking back from the hospital to his office. Again, it's just 300 meters.

And he said he was basically running for his life. And he said it was the most dangerous, heartbreaking moment he had experienced. There was a woman who was pleading for help across the street and he couldn't do anything about it. He just had to take cover and run for his own life. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Kate Leinbaugh. It's Tuesday, November 14th. It's Tuesday, November 14th.

Coming up on the show, how Al-Shifa Hospital became the center of Israel's war with Hamas. At AirMiles, we help you collect more moments. So instead of scrolling through photos of friends on social media, you can spend more time dinnering with them. How's that spicy enchilada? Very flavorful. Yodeling with them. Eww.

Ooh, must be mating season. And hiking with them. Is that a squirrel? Bear! Run! Collect more moments with more ways to earn. Air Mile. Al-Shifa Hospital is one of the oldest hospitals in the Gaza Strip. It's a sprawling medical complex that sits in the heart of Gaza City.

Al-Shifa is the biggest and most important hospital in the Gaza Strip. So it provided critical medical care to many of the 2.2 million people who lived in the Gaza Strip, and especially Gaza City, which is the biggest city in Gaza. That's our colleague Margarita Stankati, who's been reporting on the war. On October 7th, Hamas militants stormed into Israel, killing 1,200 people and taking more than 200 hostages. Israel immediately declared war on Hamas and unleashed a barrage of airstrikes on Gaza. So after the attacks, what has happened to the hospital?

Al-Shifa Hospital completely transformed after October 7. And the first thing that happened, of course, is that, you know, you had this kind of constant flow of injured people. So suddenly the medical staff there was struggling to cope with this, you know, you had this kind of constant flow of injured people. So suddenly, the medical staff there was struggling to cope with this, you know, flood of trauma cases in its hospital. And then it started running out of key supplies. It started running out of medicines, of anesthetics, and crucially, fuel needed to power its generators. So what we've seen in recent weeks is the gradual shutting down of, for example, of lights in the hospital. Parts of the hospital are kept dark and, you know, even

basic medicines are running out. So you have these like wounds with developing terrible infections. It's not just the sheer number of people who need care, but also the inability of the staff to treat even quite simple problems. How are doctors even able to treat patients? We've heard some really horrifying stories. There's doctors without borders who have staff at Al-Shifa said that a surgeon had to partially amputate the foot of a boy without anesthetic, just using, you know, very little sedative. So, you know, they're providing medical treatment in circumstances that are absolutely horrifying for them and for the patients.

And, you know, the hospital is very quickly ceasing to function like a hospital. That situation got worse. On Friday, there was an explosion in the hospital courtyard, and the tens of thousands of civilians that were sheltered there fled for the South. Over the weekend, explosions hit the hospital buildings. We've received voice messages from doctors in the hospital saying that bullets were flying outside. Here's Marwan Abu Sada, head of surgery at the hospital. We cannot get outside of the building because there is a shooting everywhere.

We don't have electricity. We don't have water. We don't have even the food. And we are afraid in the middle of the night. One of the team was hit in the neck and he got paralyzed. And we lost two patients who were in a ventilator, one in the ICU, one in the neonatal ICU unit. It is very, very dangerous, very critical situation. Israel said its troops dropped off fuel near the hospital. But staff at the hospital said it was too unsafe to leave the compound to get it.

Israel blamed Hamas fighters for preventing the retrieval. Even under these circumstances, al-Shifa's medical staff say they're trying to keep working. Here's Ahmed Mukhala Leti, al-Shifa's head of plastic surgery. So we are here treating our patients, doing nothing other than this. We are waiting to know what's the next step for the Israelis. They keep bombing the area. We are in the middle of war zone.

Israel says that it has told Gazans for weeks to leave the north and head south. And last week, the military added that hospitals in the north should evacuate too. The Israeli side has asked the general director of the hospital to evacuate the hospital, but then he said it's almost impossible. We have more than 60 patients on ventilators in the ICUs and 40 neonates on the incubators, and they all need special care, and they have to be connected continuously to a machine to survive. Unless we have a proper plan to evacuate, we can't evacuate the patients.

We all staying here because we have commitment towards our patients. We can't leave the patients to die here. Coming up, why Israel says Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. Summer is like a cocktail. It has to be mixed just right. Start with a handful of great friends. Now, add your favorite music. And then, finally, add Bacardi Rum. Shake it together.

And there you have it. The perfect summer mix. Bacardi. Do what moves you. Live passionately. Drink responsibly. Copyright 2024. Bacardi. It's trade dress and the bat device are trademarks of Bacardi. Do what moves you. Live passionately. Drink responsibly. Copyright 2024. Bacardi. It's trade dress and the bat device are trademarks of Bacardi and Company Limited. Rum 40% alcohol by volume. With Uber Reserve,

good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. The Israeli military has been trying to shut down what it says is Hamas activity at al-Shifa hospital.

And on Monday, Israeli ground forces reached at least one of the gates of the hospital. Can al-Shifa hospital be a target in the war? Like, is it a legitimate military target? Whether al-Shifa is a legitimate military target or not is really open to interpretation. So far in the conflict, Israel has adhered to a rather broad interpretation of what in its view constitutes a legitimate military target. So we have seen strikes targeting Hamas militants that have also killed a lot of Palestinian civilians. In terms of international law, if you look at the Geneva Conventions, for example, places like hospitals are protected. So under normal circumstances,

they're not considered legitimate targets. But they do lose that protection if they are used by one of the warring parties to attack the other warring party. And that's, of course, the case that Israel is making. However, to become a legitimate target, it has to be also cleared of people. So people need to be given advance warning and they need to be able to evacuate. And there needs to be a clear deadline attached to that as well. Why is Israel so focused on al-Shifa? Israel not only says that Hamas has a presence at al-Shifa hospital, Israel says that al-Shifa is absolutely essential to Hamas's operations in Gaza. They believe that Hamas has its main

command and control center at Shifa and that it's also, the hospital also sits above a critical section of these kind of vast underground networks that Hamas relies on to move people and resources across the Gaza Strip. So from Israel's point of view, it's absolutely critical to dismantle that in order to eradicate Hamas. How does Israel know this? Israel has shared some of the intelligence it's using to make its accusations. The Israelis have released a recording describing al-Shifa as where the Hamas headquarters are, but they really haven't shared much more evidence to back up their accusations.

If Hamas is hiding under the hospital, why doesn't the Israeli military just attack Hamas in the tunnels? So Israel says that Hamas has a presence in the hospital, including in the tunnels, but they claim that some of the tunnels can actually be accessed from hospital wards. So it's not clear to what extent Israel believes that Hamas presence is only underground under al-Shifa and to what extent it believes that the Hamas presence is embedded elsewhere in the hospital. Healthcare workers say, you know, they haven't seen Hamas presence there, but it's really hard to know. What does Hamas say about it? Hamas has rejected the accusations and says that al-Shifa is just used for medical

purposes. Is there any sense that some of the hostages that Hamas took after the October 7th attack could be under the hospital? So we don't know where the hostages are, but, you know, one senior Israeli official told us that it's possible that the hostages are being held by Hamas in the grounds of the hospital. On Monday, Israel claimed that it found signs that Hamas had been hiding under another hospital in Gaza, the Al-Rantisi Children's Hospital. We found a Hamas command and control center, suicide bomb vests, grenades, AK-47 assault rifles, explosive devices, RPGs and other weapons,

computers, money, etc. And we also found signs that indicate that Hamas held hostages here. It was the first time Israel had shown video footage from a hospital to support its claims that militants operate there. A member of Hamas's top leadership body dismissed Israel's accusations, saying that the hospital basement was used solely for medical purposes. Today, the U.S. declassified intelligence, it says, confirms Hamas is operating out of the hospitals, including al-Shifa. Is there precedent for this? Has Hamas used hospitals in the past as cover? So the Israeli claims that Hamas uses

al-Shifa date back to at least 2014. There was also a report by Amnesty International documenting evidence that Hamas interrogated and tortured Palestinians it accused of collaborating with Israel in the grounds of al-Shifa hospital during a previous war there in 2014. We know that Hamas has a vast network of tunnels all over Gaza, so it's not completely impossible to think that there would be a tunnel near Shifa hospital, but the point is we just don't know at this stage whether or not the Israeli intelligence is correct. Even if it is correct, so what? Like, it's a hospital. Right. And that's exactly the point.

Many people are saying, can we prove that Hamas uses the hospital as a command and control center? And the answer is, no, we can't. We don't have evidence to back that up. But many are saying that is kind of besides the point. What we do know for sure is that the hospital is also functioning as a hospital. So the question is, even if there is Hamas presence in the hospital, would that justify targeting the hospital? And that really, that is a question that's really at the heart of the broad discussions about how Israel is conducting its war in Gaza. Gaza health authorities say 11,000 people have been killed in the war so far.

After the violence around al-Shifa, international leaders have spoken out. Far too many Palestinians have been killed. Far too many have suffered these past weeks. These babies, these ladies, these old people are bombed and killed. There is no reason for that and no legitimacy. So we do urge Israel to stop. President Joe Biden said yesterday that he hoped there would be, quote, less intrusive action relative to hospitals.

As Israel continues its war with Hamas, the al-Shifa hospital remains contested. If Hamas is indeed using al-Shifa as a command and control center, that essentially means that it's using it as a human shield. And as someone put it, it's the human shield of human shields. And that in itself has to be condemned and is against international humanitarian law. But of course, the ethics of attacking a hospital, even if it is being used for military purposes, are incredibly complicated and for Israel, extremely difficult, not only because of the, you know, mass casualties that such an attack could lead to, but also when it comes to public

opinion. You know, there's growing pressure on Israel to do more to protect civilians and to help relieve the humanitarian suffering in Gaza. Att attacking the hospital. You know, it's basically the worst thing they could do in a situation where they're under growing pressure to protect civilians. That's all for today, Tuesday, November 14th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Dov Lieber and Saeed Shah. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.