The Journal. - Trump's Case Against James Comey

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

After former FBI director James Comey was indicted last week, Trump said that there may be more indictments coming. WSJ’s Sadie Gurman takes us inside the President’s push to prosecute the people he views as enemies and what this may mean for the future of the Justice Department. Ryan Knutson hosts. Further Listening:  - The Federal Reserve Under Siege - Trump’s Letter to Jeffrey Epstein - Trump 2.0: A Fast Start to a Second Term Sign up for WSJ’s free What’s News newsletter.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

President Donald Trump has long promised to prosecute the people he sees as his enemies. Last week, he started to make good on that promise. The Department of Justice has indicted former FBI director James Comey. Comey is charged with giving a false statement and obstruction of a congressional proceeding. If convicted, Comey faces a possible sentence of up to five years in prison. It's a huge deal, not just for the fact that this is a former FBI director, but this is one of Trump's number one enemies. That's our colleague Sadie German, who covers the Justice Department.

After Comey's indictment came out, Trump said he expected there would be more. So Trump stood on the White House lawn and basically said he hoped to see more of his enemies be prosecuted by the Justice Department. It's not a list, but I think there'll be others. I mean, they're corrupt. This has been going on for years and years now. Even during the first term, what we saw from Trump was some serious pressure to have the Justice Department go after his adversaries

and show leniency to his allies. But what's different about this Justice Department in the second administration is that they seem to be sort of giving into that pressure. It's the first real case where we see Trump getting what he wants, basically, having one of his adversaries be charged by his justice department. Department. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudsen.

It's Monday, September 29th. Coming up on the show, Trump's case against James Comey. This episode is brought to you by SAP. From pleasing investors to keeping customers happy, it's your job to make it all happen. Not to worry. With the AI-powered capabilities of SAP, you can streamline costs,

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That's the power powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at amex.ca slash yamex. So President Trump has made no secret of his desire to go after people he sees as being against him. Since he's come back into office, what has he actually done to carry out that mission? Yes, so right out the gate from the first weeks of this administration,

Officials started firing prosecutors, agents who worked on investigations of Trump or his supporters. We saw dozens of prosecutors who handled cases from the January 6th Capitol riot get pushed out or demoted. And basically, everybody that worked on special counsel, Jack Smith's team, which brought two criminal cases against Trump, has now left the department. And he's also installed people who are very loyal to him to run the Justice Department. Yes, that's right. So you have Attorney General Pam Bondi who represented him during 2020 election challenges. You also have Todd Blanche, the Deputy Attorney General, who represented him in his New York criminal case. So these are all people who kind of, they already have some allegiance to him. Trump's beef with former FBI director James Comey goes back almost a decade to the 2016 presidential campaign.

It started when Comey said he would not recommend prosecuting Hillary Clinton over her handling of classified emails. And then, a few months later, Comey said publicly that the FBI was investigating whether the Trump campaign had coordinated with Russia. There's this famous meeting where Comey is actually at the White House having dinner with Trump, and Trump is asking him questions about it,

and Comey says, you know, we'll try to, we're doing it as fast as we can. But at that point, according to Comey, he felt, this intense pressure and this need to be loyal. Trump has disputed Comey's description of the conversation. Not long after, Trump fired Comey. Yes, that's right. So President Trump fires Comey, and then that triggers a series of events that spawned Special Counsel Mueller's probe,

which dogged his first presidency. And so Trump has just been fuming about Comey for almost 10 years now. Now, walk us through what's happened with Comey since Trump took office on his second term. Oh, you mean like the Seashells? Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. The Seashells. Earlier this year, Comey posted a photo online of seashells arranged on a beach that spelled out 86-47. 86 is slang for getting rid of someone, and 47 was a reference to the 47th president, aka Trump.

Conservatives saw this as a threat against Trump. Comey said he didn't mean it as a threat and deleted the post. host. The seashell episode eventually blew over, but not Trump's efforts to bring charges. Prosecutors started examining in July whether Comey lied during testimony he made five years ago on the Hill, but the Russian investigation. And what we know about it is that career prosecutors handling the case repeatedly expressed to their superiors that they didn't see enough evidence to muster a case against Comey. U.S. Attorney Eric Siebert, a Trump appointee, a Trump appointee, a agreed with them. According to people familiar with the matter, Siebert told colleagues that there

wasn't enough to bring a case. And when Trump found out, he wasn't happy. Trump has gathered at the White House with his advisors, and he asks them point blank, where are these prosecutions? And Justice Department officials explained to Trump in that setting that a prosecutor who had looked at the case, didn't think that it would be a slam dunk, thought it would be pretty weak, and was not intending to bring charges. And Trump basically said, I don't care. And then all of a sudden, Siebert receives this call from a senior official saying he's probably going to get fired. And so he starts packing up his things.

And the very next day, Trump says during a publicly televised press conference, I want him out. So you're just you want him fired. You want him out. Yeah, I want him out. Earlier this month, after that press conference, Seabert resigned. So Seabert's gone. Within a day, Trump installs his own hand-picked prosecutor, another former defense attorney, Lindsay Halligan.

So Lindsay Halligan is somebody who had worked for Trump in the past? Lindsay Halligan was actually at Mar-a-Lago when FBI agents searched the property in August 2022 for classified documents in their investigation into his handling of classified information. She represented him in that case, and she's been by his side for a number of years now. Here's Halligan in an interview last year.

No matter what life throws at him, no matter how many people doubt him, he gets back up and he fights every single time. Halligan has spent most of her career as an insurance lawyer. This case against Comey will be the first criminal one she's ever prosecuted. And what details do you have about what information prosecutors showed Halligan on her first day as U.S. attorney? Prosecutors presented her with a pretty detailed memo explaining why they didn't see probable cause to charge Comey. and explaining that this, doing so, could raise some serious ethical issues, and they presented this all to her,

and she basically barreled through it. That's according to my reporting. Halligan had been on the job for three days when she filed the case against Comey on Thursday. In the indictment, Comey was charged with making false statements and obstructing Congress. The statements traced back to an exchange

between Comey and Senator Ted Cruz at a hearing in 2020. So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak. And Mr. McCabe, if he says contrary, is not telling the truth. Is that correct? Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today. The Justice Department alleges that Comey lied in his response. You, in your career, have read lots of indictments. Did anything about this one stand out to you? Well, for one, it's very short. It's bare bones. It's two pages. That was surprising.

And the other thing that stood out to me, of course, is that Halligan is the only person who signed it. Usually you see an appointed U.S. attorney, their signatory, and then the names of other career officials that worked on the case. Hmm. She wasn't the only person involved, though. There was also a grand jury. So can you explain how that works? In a grand jury, you basically have up to 23 people who have to decide whether there's the probable cause to bring an indictment. And that standard, is much lower than the standards that prosecutors would have to meet at trial. So it's much easier to get an indictment than a conviction.

And, you know, there's sort of a saying, you know, in the legal community, a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich. And that's just to say that it's really easy to get an indictment if you're a prosecutor. How did Comey respond? Well, Comey in typical Comey fashion. He posted a video basically saying that his heart breaks for the Justice Department. My heart is broken for the Department. Department of Justice, but I have great confidence in the federal judicial system, and I'm innocent.

So let's have a trial and keep the faith. And what did Trump say after the indictment? Trump just took the opportunity to do a victory lap and doubled out on all the insults that he's leveled at Comey over the years. And it also provided an opportunity for Trump to be very public about the other people that he wants the Justice Department to go after. Who those other people are is after the break. Did you lock the front door? Check. Close the garage door?

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Learn more at Dynamic. C.A. slash active. Who else does Trump want his Justice Department to go after? Okay, so the other people are Democratic New York Attorney General Letitia James, who brought a civil fraud case against him last year. And then we also have Fawney Willis, the Georgia prosecutor, who brought racketeering charges against Trump and his allies in Georgia.

He's also called out publicly Adam Schiff, the Democratic senator from California, who, while serving in the House, led the first impeachment trial against Trump. And you've also reported that he wants to launch this other investigation against Soros and liberal funders? Yeah, that's right.

The Justice Department has also been directing prosecutors to go after left-leaning groups, those particularly critics and skeptics of, the administration, and so right off the bat, a senior Justice Department official directed prosecutors in the field to think of ways to investigate the Soros Foundation, accusing it of bankrolling some of the protests that we've seen

against Trump administration policies. The philanthropic foundation that George Soros founded, Open Society, said in a statement that the move was an effort to silence Trump's critics and said that its activities are peaceful and lawful. The person who's in charge of moving these investigations forward is Pam Bondi, Trump's Attorney General. And before Comey's indictment, Trump posted a message on truth social that called her out directly, saying that she was moving too slowly. The president wrote, we can't delay any longer. It's killing our reputation and credibility.

And justice must be served now. He basically says justice must be served in all capital letters. and this is a post that's directed toward the Attorney General. And I just don't think that there's any more explicit pressure that Trump has put on any of his officials that I've seen. How has Trump justified all of this? Trump repeatedly in meetings has brought up the state and federal criminal prosecutions that he faced, including two that were brought by the Justice Department.

Last year, I mean, even in his post to Bondi, he says, they impeached me twice, and indicted me over nothing. Trump has been saying for a long time that he's the victim of a politically motivated justice system. How is what he's doing now different from other presidents? Other presidents at least tried to maintain the appearance that they were giving independence to the Justice Department

and not meddling in criminal investigations. At the Justice Department, there are a series of rules that were put in place after Watergate that are designed to insulate it from this kind of partisan pressure. but by doing this, Trump has just barreled through all of those norms. It seems like there's a certain amount of resistance within the Justice Department to bring these charges against Comey. What is your sense of how likely it will be that we'll see other indictments of the other people

that Trump is calling out here, like Adam Schiff and Ratisha James? Well, you know, a week ago I might have answered this differently, but now I think we will see those prosecutions. And when we do, I think that you will. will see career people trying to duck out of it and stay as far away from them as possible and they are going to be handled by Trump appointees and signed by Trump appointees.

And I think basically this is a model for how they might unfold. What do you expect will happen next? Because if these appointees might bring these charges, there's still the rest of the legal system that has to unfold. There's still presumably a jury that will have to look at the evidence

and weigh in here. That's right. It's going to be up to the legal system to decide whether Comey's guilty, and if they bring a weak case before a jury, that's going to be a huge embarrassment for the Justice Department. What do you think that will mean

for the institution going forward? Well, I think this will seriously strain the Justice Department's credibility going forward because, you know, the general public wants to believe that criminal cases are being brought for legitimate reasons, and if it's abundantly clear that this case was brought because Trump made it happen and directed the Justice Department to do so, then it will raise doubts about

other future criminal cases, even in matters that are not as high profile. I mean, none of this is good for the institution. You know, what this does is it sets a precedent for future administrations, Democratic or Republican, to direct the justice Department to do what they want and turn it into a weapon against their enemies no matter the party. And so over time, I think this just erodes the credibility of the Justice Department and its ability to bring cases that people think are legitimate. That's all for today. Monday, September 29. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal.

Additional reporting in this episode by Josh Dossi, Aruna Vishwanatha, Annie Linsky, and Meredith McGrath. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.