The Kevin Sheehan Show - 100% Snyder

Episode Date: March 24, 2021

Kevin had John Ourand/Sports Business Journal on the show to discuss the reports that Dan Snyder will be buying out his minority shareholders and with that, will own 100% of the team. The guys also discussed the new NFL TV deals and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. All right. We're getting this podcast out late today. I apologize.

But the news this morning about Dan Snyder acquiring the rest of the equity of his football team from his minority owners has been a developing story all morning long. And I wanted to get John Oren from Sports Business Journal on with me to talk about. it and was still trying to sort through a lot of the information in various people that I have talked to. First of all, if you're just learning about this, Tyler Dunn, who is a, it's sort of a news business pro football guy, broke this story early this morning that Washington football team majority owner, Dan Snyder, was buying out the minority owner's 40.5% stake in the team that he had requested a debt waiver of $450 million to fund the deal, and the deal has been approved by the NFL finance committee. Tyler, by the way, will be on my radio show on 980 tomorrow morning at 8 a.m.

So tune in for that on radio at 8 a.m. tomorrow morning. Then we had the New York Times story that came out shortly thereafter. The New York Times basically following up on that report, or maybe they had it. initially before anybody else had it. The New York Times writers, Ken Belson and Catherine Rossman, who have been all over sort of the Washington football story here for months, along with the Washington Post, wrote earlier this morning, seeking to move past a year of tumult over the team's former name

and sexual harassment investigation of its front office. The owner of the Washington football team is close to a deal with fellow league owners that will give him greater control over the organization while he pays a fine for executives' misconduct. Now, let me just mention that real quickly because they barely even get back to this. And it's almost the burying of half of the lead. You know, certainly him buying out the minority owners is the lead here. But they mention that the football team's close to a deal with fellow league owners that will give him greater control over the organization,

which will be about the acquisition of the role. remaining 40.5% stake that the minority owners have. And then they write while he pays a fine for executives misconduct. So they're telling you that he's going to be fined for whatever is coming out of this Beth Wilkinson investigation is what I would assume. We're going to talk to John Orand about that here in about three minutes. Anyway, they continue to write. The arrangement effectively resolves two pressing issues. A protracted boardroom fight over ownership that's spilled out into the open and in investigation by the NFL and allegations that women who work for the team were sexually harassed by staff members, a number of whom have already been dismissed.

The league owners next week are expected to approve a special waiver that would allow the owner, Daniel Snyder, to take on an additional $450 million in debt in order to buy out minority partners he's been battling with, according to a copy of the resolution reviewed by the New York Times. The NFL's Finance Committee last week unanimously recommend that the full cohort of owners waive the limit of debt a buyer can take on to buy a team. Snyder will have until March of 2028 to repay the money. So in layman's terms, the NFL's had a limitation on how much of your ownership can be financed via debt. Snyder had already reached that level.

he needed a waiver for the league to increase the amount allowed. And certainly with these new TV deals, which basically is doubling the revenue for the league over the next decade plus, he's going to be able to easily pay this back by 2028 with the revenue that will be coming in from the new TV deals, which sort of leads me to believe that that made it easier for the owners to sort of provide this waiver on the funding. But more importantly, okay, for our purposes, it would appear, it would appear as if we are now in a long-lived-the-king situation that Dan Snyder is not going to be forced to sell the team or choose to sell the team. I really doubt that the league would waive the financing rule, which they did, for an owner who's been. under investigation for allegations of a culture that's included sexual harassment misogyny. If they were then going to force him out, it doesn't really add up to me.

We'll talk to John Orand from Sports Business Journal about this here momentarily. But the net of this is that Dan Snyder is going to own, and his family are going to own 100% of the team. and Fred Smith, Dwight Schar, and Bob Rothman will be bought out for basically, you know, a valuation of about $2.2 billion, which also, by the way, means that Snyder is getting a deal on the purchase of the 40 percent, because to be honest with you, this team, if it were made available, would be worth north of $4 billion, if not north of $5 billion. So not only is he going to own it and own all of it, He is in many ways getting sort of a deal, I think, on valuation.

But I'm going to talk to John about that because I think, you know, part of that is just that the minority owners in selling when you sell that stake and you can't sell that stake to somebody that gives the equity stake, also a corresponding control over the team, then the value of those minority shares are much less. Anyway, when we come back after this break, John Oran, Sports Business Journal, we'll discuss all of this with me. Again, right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right, let's welcome in John Oran, a good friend and one of my favorite people to talk to when it comes to sports and business and sports and television. He's also a D.C. guy, big D.C. sports fan, big Maryland basketball fan, and maybe I'll ask you about that in a little bit.

follow John on Twitter at Orand underscore SBJ. It's got a great newsletter too. I read it all the time. John, your reaction to this combination of this report that first came out earlier today from Tyler Dunn and then followed up on by the New York Times. Kevin, for me, it was just a big yawn, man. I mean, I know everybody. Look, I'm from D.C. I have a lot of friends that were hoping that they're.

Dan Snyder was going to move on at some point. Maybe Dezos would come and take over. But that's not how the NFL works. The NFL ownership never in its history has moved out an owner. This isn't like the NBA and Donald Sterling, you know, from several years ago. The NFL owners don't want to set any kind of precedent that can then be turned around and used against them. And so I didn't know what the specifics were going to be. I didn't know how this was going to play out, but I am not at all surprised that at the end of all of this, you have Daniel Snyder as the controlling owner, and now it appears the total owner of the Washington football team. I find that not surprising at all. And this would suggest to you, too, that, you know, the ability to finance the

rest of it. By the way, how much of that has to do with the new television deals and doubling the television revenue, and now he's able to take out more money, finance, more of this $875 million purchase of his minority shareholders buy out of them. How much of it has to do with the fact that the TV dollars are way up? Oh, I'm sure as the owners are voting on this, I'm sure that plays a big part in how they view this, allowing somebody have that much debt. Because if that media money wasn't coming in, then you could, you know, that, good amount that he would end up looking for investors, which is what I think he's still going to do. But now, with that media money, if he wanted to and just be the sole owner and not have to

deal with minority ownership again, then yeah, he has enough that he can start to pay it down just from the TV deals alone. You just said something that's really interesting to me that he may look for new minority investors. And by the way, maybe it will be a diverse group of minority investors as well, the minority meaning the minority share of the company that is the Washington football team. Do you think that that's probably something that the league will encourage? This is a team and a franchise that over, you know, the last year or so

has really become significantly more diverse than it used to be on the business side and the football side of its operation. This is a huge priority for the league in general to increase, you know, black ownership, female ownership. So it's something that the league will be pushing for. And as you pointed out, it's been a huge initiative at the Washington football team as well. I mean, they want to, I think it's more than a PR move.

I think it's something that's good business, you know, to try to diversify the ownership ranks. And I think that's something that the NFL certainly will be pushing pretty hard for. And it appears that the team is going to be completely receptive in trying to, to do that, if that's the route they decide to take. The value that he's paying for these to buy out his minority investors, roughly a $2.2 billion valuation, pretty good deal for him, right? Because if he ended up selling the team, which we both agree that he's probably not going to do

and he's not going to be forced to do, but ultimately, you know, this organization right now is probably worth $4 billion if you get the majority share of it. You know, I hate to say win-win because it almost never is win-win. Snyder got a great deal on this, no doubt. But the minority shareholders, I think that the number that I kept seeing, they wanted to sell their shares for about $900 million. They got $875. I mean, I know what's $25 million between friends,

but they got pretty close to the number that they really wanted to get. So I think that everybody leaves this deal. I wouldn't say happy. I think there's a lot of enmity. out there, but everybody leaves us still somewhat satisfied. And the reason, and you've explained this to me in the past, and this goes for most businesses, right? And that is, if you don't own the majority share, the overall valuation is going to be much less on the purchase of a minority stake.

There's something to be said for control, and people pay for control. So yeah, if you own a majority share, that's totally right. So the other part of the New York Times story, John, that they had in there was this mention that Dan Snyder was going to be fined for, executive misconduct. That leads me to believe that this Beth Wilkinson investigation, ultimately, you know, along with the allowing him to purchase the minority shares from his minority shareholders, it just leads me to believe that the league knows that there's no smoking gun in this Beth Wilkinson report, that there's nothing linking him directly to sexual harassment or something that would force the owners to, you know, to do something more significant than just find them?

What's your take on that? If there is, they wouldn't have had the owners already, you know, vote on, you know, allowing so much debt within their ownership. And things have progressed so much. They pretty much know what's going on. If there is anything that is a smoking gun, like you say, that we and they don't know about, that would be shocking knowing how the NFL goes about its business. All right. Let's talk NFL and the enormous new television set of television deals that they just did with all of their league partners. We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors.

Last week, the NFL renewed television deals with all of its existing broadcast partners and Amazon Prime. CBS, ESPN, ABC, Fox, NBC, and Amazon Prime, a deal that, John, begins in 2023, correct? Correct, yeah. And is a 10-year deal worth, you know, like over $100 billion, which basically doubled the revenue from where it was before? Right. It's actually an 11-year deal, and it's a 110 billion dollar deal. Incredible. And Kevin, it's not just the TV deal. It's not just the fact that they just about doubled the media revenue coming in. It's the fact that they had four packages and four TV networks.

It wasn't one. Buying rice is like buying a house. If you have more than one bidder, it's great. If you only have one bidder, you're screwed. But here they had four bidders and four packages. They had the networks bidding against themselves. ESPN paid a 35% increase, and everybody says, what a steel ESPN got. It's only a 35% increase.

there's not a media company that exists in this country that would pay $2.7 billion a year for Monday Night Football. It doesn't exist. All that money is already tied up. That's how powerful the NFL is. They got these networks to bid up against themselves and almost double what was already an astronomically high-right-seat. So let's talk about the stuff that you and I love talking about, which is how are we going to be able to view the NFL? I mean, the net that I had, you know, after reading your news, letter and following this story is really the two big things for me were Thursday night

football, although I'm an Amazon Prime customer, and I watched that Cardinals, you know, 49ers game that was just exclusively on Amazon, you know, on that Saturday late in the season. You know, that's sort of a big deal out of this. And then the flex ability for Monday night football. Talk about those two things and anything else that I'm missing in terms of, you know, how we're going to view the NFL starting in 2023 and beyond? You know, there's a little information about the flex someone in a football. They want to make sure that they get out of schemes that are totally meaningless at the end of the season, which makes sense.

I don't know how that's going to work. I just imagine buying a ticket to go to see a game out of market. You know, let's say it's Washington playing Dallas out of market. and you buy that ticket and it's a Sunday afternoon game and all of a sudden they flex out to Monday night. Even two, even like, you know, two months in advance, that's still like, I'm going to have to redo my plane ticket. I'm going to have to take a day off work. I'm going to, like, I just don't know how that's going to work out. And nobody really has easy answers to that question yet. Which, by the way, is precisely why in the past, that was always the reason given as to why Monday night was a

fixed broadcast, a fixed game, because of the inconvenience that it would cause those that were going to attend the game. And, you know, I gave a really bad example. Think about Lambo field. People all of a sudden, like, Packers games are not going to go to Monday night because almost that entire crowd comes from another market. True. And people go, what about Las Vegas?

People go there for the weekend. So those two teams don't go to Monday night? I just don't know how that's going to work. I see a lot of potential problems with fans for the Monday Night Flex. What about Amazon, exclusive on Thursday Night Football, no NFL network. Did that surprise you? Yeah, I thought that NFL Network would – I thought they would share it with NFL Network. That's been part of what they do.

I tell you, what has not surprised me is a lot of the people – a lot of reports right after this have been talking about He's a death of linear television. You know, here comes streaming. This was the first package that the NFL has sold. That's a digital-only package. And that is significant. But I would suggest to you that the package stinks. It's a Thursday night football package that none of the TV networks wanted.

It's going to go back. It's not going to be with Fox where they can take, you know, a couple of games from Sunday and do it. It's going to be one of those old Thursday. and night packages where every team has to be represented and you're going to get dog matchups and they're going to be exclusively on Amazon. And to me, this deal goes until 233 and it is such a massive win for legacy media companies because they took Jeff Bezos's company, Amazon can buy and sell Disney or Fox or

any of these broadcast networks. And they basically lock them out of the most popular video programming on digital and on television for the next generation, you know, until 2033. They're stuck there with 15 games on a Thursday night. You know, if that is big tech and Silicon Valley and streaming, taking over the sports, you know, that's not what we all expected five years ago. You know, when I was on your show five years ago, I think we were like, We're all looking for Google and Facebook and Amazon. None of them bid on these rights. Only Amazon was there.

None of these other big tech companies were there. And it's just, if I'm some of these other leagues, I'm starting to get a little bit more concerned that they've sampled enough sports that they don't want these sort of big game packages. That's such an interesting way to look at it because you're right. I mean, forever we've thought, you know, eventually, you know, know, it's going to be so many new players and you're going to have to pay for it. But this was a big win for traditional network televisions, for television networks.

Well, you know what's happened, Kevin, is like these traditional network television stations, they have created their own streaming services. So like, how are we going to watch? Exactly. How are we going to watch it in 2033? The odds are I'm going to be streaming it, but I'm not going to be streaming it on YouTube or Amazon. I'm going to be streaming on the fpm plus or peacock or Paramount Plus or Fox has 2B now. So, you know, it's just interesting to see how legacy media has really, like, sports is what drives legacy media.

It's what legacy media bases entire business plan over, and they have built a moat around sports to try to keep out big tech. And big tech doesn't seem to have the stomach at least yet to get into that. Well, it's a big cost, you know. and it's got, you know, for these networks, as you've always described to me in the past, it lifts all other boats, you know, not having it is more damaging, even if on a pro forma basis, you know, it doesn't necessarily pay. It's what it does for the rest of the network. By the way, I did read, correct me if I'm wrong, that Peacock was, that the streaming NBC, you know, Peacock Network, which, by the way, you know, debuted my,

all-time favorite show, the office got, you know, that's essentially what kicked off this network was the exclusive rights to the office and all of that related programming, that they are going to stream a couple of games over the course of this contract exclusively. Am I right or wrong about that? Yeah, ESPN Plus has one exclusive game. I believe that Peacock has three exclusive games per year. I think those are mainly going to be international games. But that is somewhat significant, I think. Yeah, because the Sunday morning London games, you know, there was that one year where, what was it streamed on YouTube or Yahoo or something? Yahoo had it.

By the way, for Washington fans out there, a Thursday night game, if you don't have Amazon, you're still going to get it. The teams that are playing will, the local market over-the-air television, station will be able to air the game, right? Yeah, which is hugely important, isn't it? Yeah, it is. All right, I wanted to ask you about the Washington football team name because there was more more from Jason Wright on this yesterday. I'll do that with John Orand right after this word from one of our sponsors.

Washington football team, John. That's what they are called right now, and that's what they may continue to be called. in the future. Jason Wright was on with John Kime yesterday and mentioned that people seem to like the name, and it's something they may stick with for a while. What do you make of that? I think that this reminds me of when did the bullets change for the Wizards? 98, something like that? They put out like the fan votes, and it was like, you got seed dogs, or we had really bad choices, and right, I guess, Wizards. That's what we were going.

through the whole time. I'd love to see that polling. I think that they're going to keep the Washington football team for a long time because if you go to FedEx Field, they put the WFT Insignias at the end of each row of seats. I mean, they've spent a lot of money putting the Washington football team branding in a lot of places. I mean, there were no fans at FedEx Field all season, and they still did that branding for fans that weren't going to see it. So that suggests to me that it's going to stick around easily for another year and probably for a little bit longer. You know, it's interesting that you say that because in multiple conversations I had with people in the know, in the team, one of the things they suggested to me right after the name got pulled

was, first of all, it takes forever to get this thing done and to do it right, which is why I think all of the criticism was completely, you know, not unwarranted when the team didn't have a nickname ready to go for the 2020 season. It wasn't practical. But the other thing that they mentioned is they said, do you know how much it costs just at the stadium alone to take everything that says Redskins and change it to, you know, Washington football team or WFT or whatever? It is outrageously expensive. And, you know, to do that and then to immediately switch, you know, right away to something new, they may not want to absorb that cost. So you might be be right, just from a standpoint of

keeping that name and keeping, you know, the investment that they made in swapping out all the old with the new, they may want to live with that for a little while, at least until 2023, when all the TV dollars, the new TV dollars, start coming in.

Exactly. All right. John is a huge Maryland guy and a Maryland fan. You said to me before we started this that you listened to Scott on on the podcast yesterday and the conversation we had about Turge,

about Turgeon and the program. From your standpoint, you know, is this a stay-the-course situation or let's make a change situation right now? I hope it's a stay-the-course situation. I think that, look, I go to a lot of Maryland basketball games. I love going to those games. They're fun. We're competitive in those games.

uh, we've had a complete, we've had a bunch of competitive seasons. Uh, what, what was the stat that you pulled out yesterday, six of the last seven, if you include, uh, last year. Yeah. That, Maryland's gone to the, the tournament. You know, that, that makes for just a fun November through March. I enjoy that. Like, I don't know why we would look at it. This just kind of reminds me of back in the mid-90s when my friends all wanted to get rid of Gary because he couldn't get past the week 16.

And I was like, you guys are insane. He was like, no, we just need somebody. He was great to get us here. We need somebody to go that extra ooms. And I'm like, you don't. And I understand that people don't like turd. My friends all want him fired, like probably 90-10 of my friends. And I stick up for him.

I think he's a good guy. I like that he represents my university because I just think that I like his demeanor on the sidelines. I like his teams. I think that he's performed. But I will tell you this. man, I think that if he doesn't get renewed, then it's sort of the beginning of the end. I mean, if you don't get, I would love to recruit against the coach

that isn't getting a vote of confidence and isn't getting renewed a couple years out on his contract. So I think that there is, there is, something's going to have to happen within the next couple of months. Yeah, I mean, it's so true for those of us that have been around following this program for so long, and I don't love anybody more than I love Gary Williams in terms of coaches in the area that have been in the area past or present. And he was, he couldn't get us past the Sweet 16 and all of my friends. And, you know, I mean, this is not good enough. We've been to Fort.

I went to school there with Bob Wade. I was like, what's the Sweet 16, guys? Right. Well, I mean, the Steve Francis team that got eliminated by St. John's in Knoxville, Tennessee in 1998, That was the last straw for a lot of my friends. They're like, that's it. We were number two in the country the whole season. We can't get past the Sweet 16.

He's never. And I'm like, yeah. And I, you know, I remember the frustration too. You know, I'd be disingenuous if I said, I wasn't frustrated in the moment. And, you know, that was back when we really felt, and we hadn't even been to a final four, and we still felt like we were owed the final four. So it's, you know, it goes back to the conversation Scott had. Scott tells me all the time, you know, about, you know, I just talk to this coach.

And a lot of the coaches just in college sports in particular really love him and love his show and the whole thing. And he's developed a lot of relationships with a lot of those guys. And, you know, a lot of them have said, you know, to him many times because they know how much of a Maryland guy he is. What is wrong with your fan base? Do they not know that this guy's one of the most respected guys in the league? And nobody thinks he isn't, you know, an excellent coach. But yeah, it's not just, Scott talks to all the coaches, I talked to all the broadcasters.

And there was like a senior executive at the Big Ten Network, who's a great guy. And he's like, what's wrong with you guys? I know. He goes, what is he not doing? Like, we, this is literally a conversation I had with a friend last week. I was like, we won the Big Ten last year. And we're a three-way tie for first,

as if that diminishes it. I think it's crazy, man. The one thing I think I said this to Scott yesterday, and this has frustrated me a little bit, and I don't know if it has you at all. But the one thing about being in the Big Ten, the one thing, God, I remember one of the first games of that first year, Dan Dockich is calling one of the games,

and he's like, oh my God, this is the best environment I've been in. And he's like, and he starts talking about, you know, Maryland's going to have a lot, you know, being in this league, they're going to go to a lot of really tough places. And I had him on my show, on my radio show, after he said that. And I said, hey, Dan, I don't, you know, you talked about the environment. And it was your first trip to Xfinity Center and how impressed. He was, oh, I was blown away with it.

It was just the best thing. It's probably the best student section in the Big Ten. He's like, but you're going to go to some tough places. And I said, well, that's one of the reasons I had you on the show. Do you realize we were in a league? A little league you may have heard about it. It's called the ACC. And that we played in places like Cameron Indoor every year.

year. You know, trust me, I said, no offense to your football first league. I said it this way, too. I said, no offense to your football league. We were in a basketball league, and we played in Cameron Indoor every year, you know, which is, you know, and he said, you know, forget, forget Cameron Indoor. I never want to see Little John again. Not when Clemson is good, not when they're good. I don't think we ever beat them there. Even in our good years. But you know what? The truth is, you know, I, I, bring it up because what you said, it reminded me of, I think I said this to Scott yesterday, you know, the Big Ten looks at the Maryland fan base and says, what are you guys talking about? And I sometimes think they don't understand like ACC fans would.

The history, you know, that they're, that look, the last team playing in the Big Ten to have won a national championship was Maryland, you know? and their tradition is as steep as anybody's in the Big Ten not named Indiana. So I think there's always been this sort of roll your eyes, Maryland Rutgers. Now, real basketball fans understand it. But I think ACC fans would understand more the frustration of not getting out of that first weekend in March than maybe Big Ten fans would. Yeah, because this isn't like, and something you and Scott were saying that was irritating me. Like, this isn't just a team that just went to two final fours and had a two-year run.

This started back in the 70s. Yeah, true. Lestie and Len Elmore and Tom McMillan and John Lucas and that. We had the second best team in the country that year and didn't make the tournament because only at NC State went in 74, right? Yeah. And then the Len bias, Adrian Branch, and, you know, that whole era, you know, and then Gary's whole run. And so, yeah, losing around at 32 by 30, or what was the score, 20, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah, I understand the front. I felt frustrated. That was an awful second half to watch, you know. And you feel frustrated, you know, because you go back to Lennelmore and Tom McMillan, you know, if you're in my age, I suppose. No, I agree with you. And when, you know, I think he was sort of describing what Stanford, Steve, his partner. And Steve's, you know, become, you know, he's moving. down here and I've spent a lot of time with Steve and he loves the whole, you know,

he's, as Scott said, he's sort of been assimilated into our group, which is all Maryland basketball fans, you know, and he's like, what are you guys talking about? You went to a final, two final fours. It was like 20 years ago. But to your point, and that's why I say like ACC people understand. Maryland, it was the third winningest program in the history of the greatest basketball league in college basketball league in history. It was Duke Carolina, but until recently where maybe Virginia has passed Maryland and wins or whatever, because we haven't been in the league now for six years. But when we left the league, we were the third winningest program.

We had gone to a final four. We had won a national championship. But more than that, you know, we were a perennial in the 70s, 80s, 90s through the mid-2000s, a top 15, top 20 college basketball program. We just weren't Duke or Carolina. And by the way, I think that's part of our identity is always sort of feeling this inferiority conference complex, you know. Carolina ref. Carolina, they still exist, too. Exactly.

Anyway, I appreciate you coming on, really do. Love your insight. You know how much I love the conversations we've had over the years. John Oran Sports Business Journal. Follow John on Twitter at Orand underscore S. BJ. He's got a fantastic newsletter. There's nobody that covers sports and business, sports and TV better than John does. By the way, real quickly, because I did see you tweeted this out, and I'm pulling up your Twitter account right now. The Maryland Bama game did a good number

the other night nationally, right? Yeah, yeah, too. I mean, two big brands. Bama is a big brand, even if it's not a basketball brand. And I think it was going against a pretty poor game as well. I think that the competition wasn't very good. The number was good, but Maryland generally brings in good numbers. Yeah, you know, you and I understand this, and sometimes, you know, the listeners that listen to my radio show or the podcast that couldn't care less

about Maryland basketball and think we're too obsessed with it, you know, for many years in this town, the number two television draw behind the football team was big Maryland basketball games. Like it really, I mean, they'd dwarfed anything else that was on television locally? You know, it's great when we're good at football, but it doesn't even matter. Like, if we're bad at basketball, it ruins my ear. Right.

We just need to be good. I love going to those games. I've been watching them forever, and yeah, we just need to be. But I'm right about the TV numbers, right? Locally, Maryland used to have massive numbers that were second only to the Skins numbers. Oh, yeah, yeah, especially hockey never rates. it did better than the Wizards bullets and baseball really hadn't been here. It hasn't been drawn big numbers historically.

I mean, they did better, obviously, as they started winning. Yeah. Appreciate it, as always, John. Have a great day. This was so fun, man. Thanks for having me on. John is such a good guy and really does a phenomenal job covering sports business. And, you know, the NFL stuff with TV stuff.

I know not all of you are into that stuff. But it changes every once in a while, and John's always all over those changes. So follow him on Twitter, get his newsletter, totally worth it. We're done for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.