The Kevin Sheehan Show - 11-2-22

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

Kevin and Thom today with a ton of info and opinion on the Dan Snyder news from yesterday. They both gave their guesses on how likely it is that yesterday's news was an announcement that the team's majority ownership was up for sale. They talked about potential buyers and what should be on the list of initial actions taken by the new owner. They finished up with some Commanders' talk, World Series, and the passing of the NFL's all-time best punter.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. Thank you.

We got more reviews and ratings yesterday than I think we've ever gotten on one day. And I really appreciate all of that. That is so helpful. And if you haven't rated or reviewed the show, on Apple in particular, it's really helpful for us. This one came from Jay. Kevin, 2-22 was a date that will live in infamy. 11-2-22 is the equivalent of V-E or V-J-day. Thank you, Jay.

You know what? You know what? Let's call it V-D-day. V-D-day. Victory over Danny Day. Yeah, or, you know, basically, what we've been dealing with for 23 years, which is VD. And penicillin couldn't cure it, could it?

But maybe other things did. Boy, what a day yesterday was. Lots of feedback from all of you. I mean, I'm just sitting here as we were getting ready to start the show, Tommy. And I pulled up all of the emails, which we've never gotten that many emails through the website before. I mean, yesterday was a day for me. I don't know if it was the same for you.

But I was sitting here in my studio doing an interview with my good friend, Stanford, Steve. We were talking about the college football playoff rankings. You know, it was a conversation that just kind of morphed into college football and NFL. I love Steve. And, you know, it was one of those where he gets on. He goes, look, let's just talk about anything and keep me as long as you want. And then like an hour later, I look up and he and I are still talking. You know, and Steve is great.

And we had a great conversation. I doubt many of you actually listened to a lot of the college football talk from yesterday, but it was really good. But all of a sudden, towards the end of our discussion, my phone just starts, you know, I look at it and they're like 17 text messages because I've got it on silent, you know, in the studio like we always have to do when we're in studio. and the first few are from two of my three sons who are like, is this for real, Dad?

Oh my God. And then I just see a lot of my friends and then work people. And I just said to Steve, and those of you that listened to the Steve portion didn't hear this because I edited it out. But I said, you got to hold on for a second. And he said, okay, I said, it looks like there's like big news related to Dan Snyder. And Steve said something like, well isn't that every day? And I said, yeah, but this one appears to be different.

And so I told him, I said, all right, we got to wrap this up right now. I got to get started on this because I'm going to have to find people to either come on and I got to see what the hell is going on. So we wrapped it up anyway. I ended up getting in touch with the guy from Forbes who broke this story and had him on. And, you know, many of you commented on that interview. And by the way, some of the comments, which I'm not going to go into, I don't disagree with you. I think that the story was clearly planted with Forbes and that a lot of the, let's just say, the environment here in D.C. As it relates to the feelings about the owner, I don't know that he was completely familiar with.

And Tommy, I don't know if you ended up listening to it or not because you and I talked yesterday afternoon as well. And I said to you, I said, really nice guy. He broke the news clearly, really understands the business and, you know, valuations of NFL teams and where this might be headed, etc. But I kind of got this sense that he didn't really understand that this would be, honestly, one of the most glorious days in the history of D.C. sports, no exaggeration. like that there would be a full-fledged, you know, parade potential. That's hyperbole. I don't expect Mayor Bowser to schedule a parade for this in all seriousness. But that this was such a significant day because it's been a dream of so many for so long. But it was good to get him on anyway.

But anyway, I got so much to get to, and so do you. You haven't had a chance to weigh in on this, not on the podcast anyway. Have you written about this yet? I'm writing about it for tomorrow's paper. Okay, so for tomorrow. I'm curious on a day like yesterday, was there a push from the paper to say, get something done that we can have in the paper

tomorrow is in today? They don't push me, Kevin. I push them. Okay. But why didn't you have something for today? I mean, this... Because when the news broke, I was not in...

a position to be able to turn around and write something about it. What did you have plan that was, what were you in the midst of that was so much more forward? I was nowhere near home. I was nowhere near my computer. And I just realized that, you know, it'll be there the next day. It'll be there. It'll be there the next day.

It's a calm. It'll be there the next day. I'm not writing the news story. You know, Matt Parrish wrote the news story. I mean, you know, so I'm writing my column. And when my column appears, it's when people will read it. You know, that's pretty much it. I actually really do appreciate that.

I think there was a time in my life where I would have said, no, I'm sorry. This is something where if you're a true self-starter, you've been waiting for this column. This is the column. people are so locked in and tuned in right now, you got to have it done. But you know what? The truth is, just like with this podcast, like so many people will say, what about an emergency pod, are you going to have an emergency pod? I mean, Chase Young got hurt or, you know, some, I'm like, eh, I don't know. I think I may have, I think in the history of the, of this podcast, we've done maybe two or three emergency pods. The truth is, if it comes a day and a half, two

days later, they're going to listen to it anyway. And they're going to read your column anyway. Yes. Yeah. And there's probably a better chance that the column I write for tomorrow will be better than the column I would have written for today. Because I'll be of more perspective, more information, and more time to think of ideas. So, I mean, look, my first reaction was I got to turn around and go home. You know? Right. And write. But then I said, you know, I mean, they weren't bugging me for a call. And I said, you know, I said, I'll write a column the next day.

Okay. No big deal. Right. Well, you know what? I benefit from that because Tommy's first spoken words on this situation will come today on this podcast, long before you get to read his column. But you're going to read his column anyway, because the truth is his idea, for his column may come from this conversation

that we're about to have. That happens very often. I know. And conversations with you often drive what the next day's content is or on radio. There were a couple of other notes from various people. This was from James. James basically wrote, Tommy had it right all along.

this was about the stadium and the business improprieties. We'll get to all of that. And then my buddy Jimmy actually sent me this text, and I know you remember every prediction you make that is accurate. I don't all the time. I like to the big ones, you know, whether it was Vinnie Serato or Tiger would come back and win a major, or Kirk Cousins, who by the way, they're playing on Sunday and others. but my buddy Jimmy said, you had it.

You said you wouldn't believe it until Goldman Sachs and the team put out a release that they were going to handle the sale of the team. Yeah, a few months back I said, I'll believe it when the team puts out a press release that they have entered into a deal with Goldman Sachs to sell the team. And yesterday that was the news, not with Goldman Sachs, but with Bank of America, that sparked, you know, a wild and crazy day that the team had entered into an agreement with Bank of America to initially, you know, the statement, the headline from Bank of America, not that I want to go through the whole chronological, you know, event by event part of the day yesterday. It started with this story, he's selling the team.

I think the immediate reaction from everybody is he's selling the team. It's time to rejoice. And then I think, you know, a lot of us, me included, said, well, hold on for a second. Is he selling the team or is he selling a minority stake in the team? And then the team put out a statement that was, you know, per usual for them, Tommy, right? Incredibly vague and self-serving. Dan and Tanya Snyder and the Washington commanders announced today that they have hired B of A Securities, Bank of America's securities, to consider potential transactions.

The Snyders remain committed to the team, all of its employees, and it's countless fans. By the way, you can count them on just a few sets of hands to putting the best product on the field and continuing the work to set the gold standard for workplaces in the NFL. That has been a theme of almost every press release now for the last couple of years. You know, the diversity, inclusivity, the gold standard. Everybody's come from all over the world to see their HR department. And because that was so vague, you know, reporters had to get some clarification. And they were asked, wait a minute, are you selling the team or are you just selling a minority stake in the team?

And the team had a spokesperson that told a lot of the beat reporters, including Ben, that's where I saw at first, Ben Standig, quote, we are exploring all options, closed quote. And then, you know, I think a lot of the national guys that were unsure became a little bit more sure. And then we had the news last night about a criminal investigation, just another investigation from the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Virginia about some of the Jason Friedman business impropriety allegations that came out a little bit later in the day. I'm going to let Tommy take his first swing at this. I had a lot of conversations with a lot of people that are in the know and some that aren't specifically in the know as far as this is concerned, but kind of can read a press press release and can read the tea leaves with respect to kind of

an acquisition situation. And so I'll get to a lot of what I think right. now. But Tommy, why don't you go first? What did you make of the day and where do you think we are today? Well, first of all, clearly the story was planted. I mean, the story

was posted at 1059, and I think the team posted their statement at like 1102. Right. So, three minutes later. So they were not caught off guard, certainly by this. As far as the concerns about,

what it really meant in terms of maybe opening the books to minority investors. I pointed out to people that any minority owners would have to be approved by the other NFL owners. Okay? So, I mean, if the NFL owners are trying to drum Snyder out, then I'm going to turn around and go ahead and improve new business partners for them. So that's really not an option. That's not going to happen. Right.

So the sale of the team, you know, I thought it would happen. And it's, I'm trying to measure like what kind of what this means to people. And I think there'll be an impromptu parade somewhere. I really do. I think somebody's going to figure out. some kind of a parade somewhere. I mean, certainly it's not going to be an official parade, but I think somebody will figure out a parade with this.

As to what drove him, it could have been this latest, you know, U.S. attorney's criminal charges investigation into him. I want to point out to people that this is different. This is not the Virginia Attorney General who was investigating him, and that is not necessarily, I don't think, a criminal investigation. that may be a civil situation, but this is the U.S. attorney for Eastern Virginia, I think. This is a federal investigation.

Yes. And this is number eight. And if you're keeping a count in the amount of the... I lost count. It's number eight? It's number eight. Yes. This is number eight.

Okay. None of which have ended. Okay? It's not... We're not even counting. We're not counting in previous investigations or anything like that. He has eight ongoing, him and the team, not just him, but him and the organization, have eight different investigations going on with as far as we know, no resolution of any of them.

And nobody can believe that much. This can't happen. I mean, you and I couldn't believe that much if we had eight different agencies looking into it. And not without somebody standing by for a transfusion. And I'm not talking about the vodka transfusions, although those would help as well. Yes. Yeah. What else?

So, well, I mean. I want to wait, I want to wait to get to what's next in terms of potential buyers and, you know, what they would do, et cetera. But what about, so. Now, yeah, go ahead. The front office sports reported that, and they do a good job front office sports, they reported that the booing of Tanya Snyder on the video screen recently. recently, when she was doing a public service announcement for cancer and cancer research, apparently had a real big impact on her and the family. That was front office sports, because I know Michael Phillips tweeted something out,

and I've got something about that, too, which I'll get to here shortly. Front office sports. Is that that AJ guy? Is that that AJ, whatever? Yes, it is. AJ Perez and and so

and you have you have always you know wondered what kind of impact how much can the family take in terms of being such an ostracized unit

in the capital of the United States I mean you know the most hated arguably the most hated person in town and that's got

that's got to take its toll and, you know, maybe that was the final straw. Maybe it was this federal investigation going on. Who knows? But this is the real deal. I think this is going to happen. So percent chance he sells the team? I say 95 percent.

Okay. I'm just going to tell you up front, I'm at 90 today. And I wasn't when you and I talked yesterday. I think I said I was at 60 or 70, but I'm at 90 today. So, you know, let me just start with this. Like yesterday really was in so many ways, although I'm going to be really candid. Like, I remember a day when I would think about, God, if he were forced to sell or if he decided to sell, it really would be like this massive, massive exciting day.

Like, personally, I would be so pumped, you know, and I would be like, God, finally, we're going to get our team back. I do think, and I talked to some friends last night about this, there has been a general, you know, long, you know, wearing down of everybody to the point

where, you know, a lot of people just aren't fans at all. And a lot of people, the apathy included, I don't even give a shit anymore if he sells the team. You know, so, no, I think that can change, you know, when it finally happens and there's a new owner, and hopefully the new owner can really understand,

what this is about. But I certainly felt like this is really a good thing. And by the way, a really good thing for me personally and you and everybody else. If, you know, they get a new owner and they can have actually a functional football organization in the most popular league and the most popular sport in this country, it would be great. You know, I love the people who have said to both of us over the years, what do you got to, what would you guys do if Snyder sold the team? Or voted out. Well, maybe we could be talking about a functional organization for the next 10 to 15 years, God willing. We're still doing this 15 years from now together. And a team that's, you know, a contender at some point because as we've talked about for years, we've had to, you know, suspend

reality, the reality that this organization was never going to be a winning organization as long as he owned it. So yesterday, I mean, I know that, you know, there were dreams that were potentially, you know, realized finally. You know, it was a joyous day. I thought, you know, I wonder if they're just doing things they've done before. Like remember when they floated Jim Fossil out there as the head coach just to see what the reaction was? And everybody's like, Fossil! No! And so that's when you were walking through the parking lot and heard Jim Zorn say to his wife,

no, honey, the head coach. Still one of the all-time great stories. And he had to go home to get a suit to go to Mr. Snyder's house. And, you know, are they floating like a trial balloon out there just to see what the reaction was like, do they really think that somehow a bunch of people would say, no, no, stay, Dan? I don't think that's what it was. You know. You know, I mean, to put that out like that, I think what happened, and this is just guessing, this guesswork.

And it could have been a jarring event like the bullying or the U.S. attorney's investigation that may have triggered it. But, you know, it may have been a conversation to, and this may have all been part of it, altogether, with whoever Dan Snyder talks to in the league, that he would semi-trust, that finally conversation that says, look, I mean, it's not going to get any better for you. Okay, you're not going to get your stadium, you know. It's only going to get worse for you. Put the team up for sale and will help you get the highest dollar you could possibly get much more than the evaluation for the team. Right. And, you know, putting it out there like that, I think, I mean, I predicted it could go high as $7 billion. You know, I still think that that may wind up being.

conservative prediction, who knows? But I think there's going to be a real scramble to buy this team. And I think once they see the dollars come in, if there was any hesitation before, I think that will disappear. Yeah, the guy that I had on yesterday from Forbes, Mike Ozanius, said he thinks it's not crazy to think that somebody will offer him $8 billion. Yeah. And mentioned Bezos and Elon Musk among us.

others. So, you know, we've, we've often asked, and you mentioned it sort of, like, you know, why? You know, why? I mean, so many times on this show, whether it's the two of us discussing it, or me discussing it with Cooley, or me discussing it with, you know, somebody after they've written the post story, whatever, just, you know, why would he want to own this team anymore? I mean, how much could the, you know, the ego massage of being, you know, the one of 32, owners, which is, you know, a big deal and how it makes him feel so big when he's on his yacht, you know, in Nice or on the Amalfi Coast, and he's hobnobbing with George Clooney and Tom Cruise and Matthew McConaughey. You know, how was the way he was viewed back home, reviled, despised?

I mean, as I've said many times, there's no question that he's the most despise. Washington, D.C. figure of all time that wasn't a politician and maybe more than any other politician. And, you know, how could he enjoy? And knowing that his family probably doesn't enjoy this, how could he enjoy it? Well, I do think that a lot of that came into play. But let me just give you the reasons that I think that ultimately this is about a sale. I'm 90% that he is selling the team, not selling a minority stake. I had many conversations with a lot of different people yesterday, many thoughts, Tommy, throughout the day, including thoughts after that, you know, the criminal investigation that was federal, the announcement of that. I just believe the chances

that he's selling the team, not selling a minority stake are very high. And look, it is, there's a big difference, you know, I know many of you had said to me, and I felt the same thing, and I think I pushed back, you know, adequately with the guest yesterday. Like, you know, the joyous news is him selling the team, 100% of the equity. The selling of a minority stake is terrible news. So I don't think that, I still don't think people outside of this market grasp, you know, what this market's become as it relates to him. I think some do, but I don't think all do.

Here are the reasons. You know what? A lot haven't. And I always felt that taking consideration when they would make their predictions about how the team would do. Now that changed eventually in later years. But when they would assess the team, they would assess it like an NFL team. And it's not an NFL team like we've talked about.

It really isn't. It hasn't been an NFL team to me since the Shanahan era. Yeah. So here are the reasons for me why I think that yesterday was really, you know, this was the day. This was the day where all of our dreams were realized that, you know, I feel very confident that they're selling the team. Number one is this. You know, when the team was asked about that vague press release, they said, you know, we're exploring all options. If they were truly low, looking to sell a minority stake in the team using Bank of America, which they would still use an investment banker to sell 40%, 20%, whatever it is. They would still use an investment banker. But if they were only selling 40% or less or 49% or less of the franchise, they would have used that as an opportunity like they have in recent months to say, we have decided to sell a minority stake in the team to bring on and we have targeted a culturally diverse group of

investors as we continue to be the gold standard when it comes to being the most inclusive and diverse company on the planet. You know, they would have used that as an opportunity. They didn't say that. They said exploring all options. That's a big tell and was the first tell yesterday that they're really, when you, when you suggest that publicly, you are really saying. as a couple of the investment banking friends and people that I know said,

no, no, no, this is goal number one. Now, if somebody doesn't make a good enough offer in a normal transaction, it's very possible that they'll just end up selling another stake. Because remember, investing in an NFL team, even if you're a minority investor, it doesn't come with any control. You don't get to be the owner, but it's been an incredible investment for anybody. that's had any kind of equity stake in an NFL team, even though, you know, as I pushed back yesterday on our guest,

Washington's different from the other 31 teams. But that's reason, number one. If they were doing this, could they have just trolled us and they're just, they wanted to see what the reaction was? I don't think that's what it was. I think they, if it was all about a minority stake, they would have said that. Number two, you know, with that story that came out last night, you know, and as you've suggested, and we've talked about many times before,

You know, I don't necessarily think like this was an announcement because they knew this report was coming out. I'm not suggesting they didn't know that this report was coming out. But like you said, the counts at eight or whatever. And remember, there have been, you know, the Beth Wilkinson investigations was closed. So whatever the number is, they probably knew this was coming out. But I think it's about a lot more than just the fact that this was coming out. Although, you know, I certainly believe that there's still a chance that one of these investigations produces the smoking gun. You know, that's, you know, possible.

But, you know, it just reminded me you can't do business with Dan Snyder. It doesn't matter how attractive and financially beneficial being an NFL team investor is. because let's just say 40% of the team would sell for $2 billion. I mean, it would probably be worth $4 billion in 10 years. That's a hell of an investment. Look, if Snyder sells it for $8 billion, that's a 10-to-1er, Tommy. That's unbelievable, you know, since he bought it. But it's just different in Washington with Snyder.

He's toxic. And being associated with him is more stain than stature. you know, and because of all of these constant investigations, you've got liability risk when you're an investor in this company, a significant investor, which sometimes, by the way, Tommy, comes with a board seat, not controlling, obviously, sometimes comes with officer designation. You know, you can't, you don't want to do business with somebody like this because, again, it's more stain because of the toxicity. it's not necessarily going to elevate your reputation or the reputation of your businesses like it does if you were an investor in the other 31 teams or at least 30 of the 31. I think Cleveland and the Haslam group is probably a little bit sketchy there. But you've got liability risks. So even though it's a great investment, I don't know that he can find anybody that wants to do business with him and be beholden to him as the majority. owner. Thirdly, and I think this is cumulative, you know, over the last couple of weeks. You know,

it's everything that I just mentioned. And then I do think something has happened here in the last two weeks because we went from two weeks ago, Jim Mersey at the league meetings saying that there's merit to take a vote on Dan Snyder to oust him as an NFL owner to that statement that the team put out, quote, the commanders have made remarkable progress over the past two years. We are confident that when he has, meaning Jim Ursay, has an opportunity to see the actual evidence in this case. Mr. Ursay will conclude that there is no reason for the Snyders to consider selling the franchise and they won't, close quote. You know, it was the typical Snyder, never, never, never, and they won't. You know, let me make myself clear, I'm not selling my effing franchise.

They can come at me all they want. Erse can come at me all. I'm a fight guy and I'm digging my heels in. So what changed? I think there's several things at play. Number one, I do think that family has something to do with this. You know, you and I have talked, you know, kind of on the podcast, but definitely more off the podcast. I think for years this has been very, very stressful.

you know, to the family. And, you know, for years it's been all, you know, the venom and the anger has been towards dad, towards the husband. And a week and a half ago at the Green Bay game, it was towards mom and my wife, if you're Dan. And I think that, you know, you said something to me yesterday when we were talking, and I totally agree with this. She was booed, you know, whether it was on the screen

or whether when she was interested. introducing various people and she said, you know, hail to the Redskins, you know, beat, beat the Packers or whatever. She was booed out there. And you said, you know, you were surprised that she was booed. I can't imagine personally had I been there booing Tanya. I don't know. But I think, you know, they probably even thought, yeah, they're not going to boo Tanya.

They hate Dan. And so I think that may have been, you know, something that was more obvious. opening than anything else. Not that, you know, it's surprising that the venom and anger is there for Dan, but that this was now about mom and a wife, not about dad and a husband. I think the realization, too, that he's got nobody left in the league that supports him. You know, I'm not sure what took him so long to figure this out. But I think, you know, as Sally suggested when she was on with me a couple of weeks ago on radio, what'll happen. It was right after the Ursa thing. And I think you kind of agree with this to a certain degree also that, you know, like you said earlier, Jerry, you know,

who he idolizes, and maybe a couple of others sat down with him and said, it's time. It's time. It doesn't matter whether you're innocent or guilty of some of these charges. You've got to go. Your market is dead and with you there it will continue to stay dead. There will be no reviving it. It doesn't matter if you prove yourself to be innocent of the Tiffany Johnston allegations or of these business improprieties or something else. And by the way, I'm not discounting the possibility that there may have been something else that Jerry and the others said, look, Mary Joe White's got this on you too now. This is, we didn't even know this. Like, and they're just, but really at the end of the day, like I said to you last week,

shouldn't even be about these investigations anymore. Again, not diminishing the significance of the victims and the alleged victims, but this is about a market that's completely dead and won't be reborn until he's gone. And I think all of this, you know, started to add up. And I think the realization of, you know, the fact that, you know, a fight would be costly for him. It would be ugly. it would be an unseemly path, not that he's unwilling to take an unseemly path. He's certainly done that before. But ultimately, he probably was convinced by somebody, you can go down this path, but the result is not going to change. You're out.

Whether, you know, whether it comes to a vote, which we'd rather not come to a vote, because that's just ugly and costly for everybody. Or you voluntary, you're done. And, you know, part of also the realization that it is a fact that he has no real chance to build the stadium that he always thought would make him a hero in this city. You know, I was told a few years ago his dream of, you know, getting back into the good graces of citizens in this town and fans was to build a brand new spanking beauty of a stadium on the RFK site. Well, that's not going to happen. You know, that's just not going to happen with him here. So, you know, we've had these dreams of him selling the team, and he's had this dream of a new stadium being his salvation.

But that was delusional to begin with because it was never about a new stadium. But, you know, it's in recent months become very clear that that is a dream that will go unfulfilled for him. You know, the best he's going to do is build something on the land. Sandover's site, you know, and he's not going to get a cent from Maryland. And he probably, Tommy, was made very aware, we're not giving you the $200 million that we usually give to owners that build new stadiums. You know, they've got the, in the coffers of the NFL, they have $200 million that is given, not loaned, given to an NFL owner for the building of a new stadium.

So the fact that the new stadium dream was dying a slow death could be a big part of this as well. I think you just add it all up and it's kind of this cumulative effect where, as you like to say, even for him, he kind of realized the juice ain't worth the squeeze. And I do think the family thing could have been a big shakeup for him. It also could be something that's coming in the Mary Joe White. investigation, or perhaps it was the announcement last night. But I think, you know, they, he also, by the way, has a family and kids that are adults now. You know, the adults now who are kids can say, Dad, enough is enough. Eight billion dollars, seven billion dollars. We'd rather have that than the

team. You know, we would rather have that money than have any part of this team in a market that nobody's going to want us to own it either. So selling voluntarily is for him right now the most financially fruitful path of kind of least resistance. And I think that he's finally gotten there. I mean, you know, like we've been asking ourselves and all of you, how could he enjoy doing this? And maybe finally he doesn't. I have one more thought before you react. And this is one skeptical kind of fearful thought.

And I think everybody needs to be careful here. I don't think anybody should be high stepping it yet. I don't think the parade should be announced yet. Because this guy, over a long period of time, has proven himself to be incredibly impulsive, incredibly reactionary. And if he had a moment of clarity here in the last few days, you know, let's let them continue to have more than just the moment of clarity. Like if there is something new that's ready to break that isn't, you know,

something that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, something that's going to piss him off and say, damn it, that's not true. And I'm sick of this. I'm going to fight this now. I think right now people should just let this thing happen. and I'm not suggesting that somebody who's actually a victim, you know, doesn't come forward. That's not what I'm saying here.

But I do think, like I've said to you before, the truth will do, don't give them any small win, you know, whether it's the India media company that Sharr was probably behind. And I say probably because the NFL has barred him from ever owning any equity in an NFL team. And I do think that Snyder was smeared by that campaign. and it was not true, the Jeffrey Epstein stuff, and the, you know, the sexual, the sex rings and the drug rings. I mean, and I think the last two years, what's happened is, you know, he has taken the last two years of accusations and said, this isn't me. And I want my family, I want my kids, I want my friends to know, I'm not, you know, I'm not guilty of this. I'm guilty of having been the chairman and CEO of a business that did have a toxic workplace.

But I didn't put my hand on Tiffany Johnston's leg. I didn't sexually harass her. We didn't cook the books or whatever it is. You know, he can't see, because he's a narcissist, all of the harm that he had done for the 20 years that preceded the last two. So, anyway, that's all I have on this. I'm 90% on this is going to happen. And maybe the only part of me that is 10% unsure is because he's really very impulsive and reactionary. And who the hell knows what he'll wake up and feel tomorrow or the next day?

Well, he'd have to be an insane man to turn around and change his mind at this point. because, I mean, if he was hated yesterday, imagine how much he'd be hated tomorrow if he pulls the rug out from under. I know. I know. So, I mean, and again, like I said, as far as taking a minority investors, I mean, you made a lot of good points, like who would want to do business with Dan Snyder. But if the league wants them out, they're not going to approve any new investors for his organization. That's right. But can I throw out one thing to that?

Let me throw out one thing on that. Because if he had a culturally diverse group of, and the league didn't approve them, you know, not everybody knows how bad of a person or an owner, Dan Snyder is, and how despised he is. But they would know by then. Okay. They would know. I don't think that would...

I agree with you in general. I don't think that would stop them. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, I just think that, you know, I mean, there's, there'd be too much to overlook in a situation like this. So I think VD Day will stick. Okay.

VD Day. Victory over Danny. Finally. It was a long war, Tommy. There were a lot of lives lost, a lot of casualties. But I'll tell you, there were a few battles here and there. We fought the good fight, and ultimately we were battered, bruised, but we won. And I say we as in the collective we, all of you and everybody else.

Yes, absolutely. And I want to point that out. I just couldn't resist this. I'm sorry. The moment just I couldn't not resist doing this yesterday on social media. when I wrote my last column about the toxic workplace and how it could impact ultimately, you know, Skipper Dan, I got some pushback from a lot of people as I do,

and I got, you know, one pushback from Washington, D.C. tweet team who said, Tom, why do you have to be so hard on, why do you have a hard on for Dan? Can you talk about football just once? You focus so much like you have a personal vendetta. Nobody gives a fuck about Dan. I just want to win games. I want to hear how the team is turning the corner.

Not about all these unsubstantiated claims. Now, I use that as an example to tweet this yesterday. So I quoted that tweet. All the Mensa candidates like this genius who had issues with me writing so much about Skipper Dan the Sailing Man and his destruction of the franchise. Dot, dot, dot, dot. You're welcome. Okay.

Okay. Thank you, Tom. Thank you. You know what's funny as you were reading that tweet? And I really don't want to pick a fight because you and I have both gotten a lot of what you just read in terms of the tweet towards you over the years from what is, as I have referred to, you know, that, tiny portion of the fan base that is just never, ever going to think that the organization has done anything wrong. And I've said this before, and I'll say it again, you know, that group, which has shrunk to really a very small group. But by the way, a loud group on Twitter, right? These are the people

when it came to the Carson Wentz trade, when I bashed it and said, this is not a great trade, get on board or get out, you know? And with me, it's always, why don't you just move to the Twin Cities. Why don't you just move to Minneapolis and cover your boy? But in reality, what really kept them going for so many years and kept them delusional out there were a lot of these, you know, especially at away games. And look, I get it, you know, when you haven't lived the day-to-day in the city like we have, I've said this for years, people who have lived outside the market who are Redskinned fans, Washington Football. fans, Washington Commander fans, have never ever felt the same way that those of us who have been

here have felt. You know, even my friend Tim Legler, who I love dearly, like, this is the first year he hasn't come to every game. And I would say to him the last couple of years, why do you keep coming? And he's like, you know, I just still, this is still part. And I'm like, see, for us here, it kind of, the life kind of got sucked out of it. But I'm getting sidetracked. Those you know, parties and pep rallies in other cities especially, because they didn't happen here. The, you know, harvest

vests and the different things like that where, you know, you and I both had conversations on the air and I had conversations with people out there and I would say these people are not representative of your of the largesse of your fan base. These are the people that will

never think you're doing anything wrong. Look at your numbers. You got no coming to the games, you've got nobody watching the games, just because you have a good turnout in Virginia Beach for harvest feast or whatever it was called. And they immersed themselves in these events. And these events made Dan and Bruce and Larry and a lot of the other people out there think that they were still beloved. I mean, they were looking at the books and they were like, well, they're just disappointed with the results. It never until

recently really occurred to them that they were despised. And then by the way, people just didn't care. Like this person that tweeted you in many ways was part of the problem over these years. Now, again, it shrunk to a very small group. And in recent years, the team has known. Like the new group out there, trust me, they have known since they came on board about what the biggest impact, to winning, to revenue growth, to organizational success has been, and that's the owner. There isn't one person that's new out there that's come from somewhere else that if they were injected with truth serum wouldn't say, well, our biggest problem is the owner. I mean, that's been the biggest problem.

That's why, you know, even though this guy came on yesterday and we've heard from others about, you know, corporate revenue being up, up from what? Up from nothing? Well, because after a pandemic, you know, it's still in terms of the other revenue bucket after media or buckets after all of the media dollars, they get, you know, they get sliced into 32 pieces, it's still for the size market they are, it's near the bottom. You know, maybe tiny markets like Green Bay and, you know, Jacksonville, et cetera, you know, are lower in ancillary revenue than Washington. But it's been a massive, disappointment. So I, yeah, I mean, when somebody like that says nobody gives a fuck about Dan,

they just want to win games, that is somebody so detached from reality. And it's part of, as I've said to you before, I don't mean this to be condescending, but it's something they've told me out there. The biggest problem with the business is Dan, but the biggest effective Dan, is that the biggest revenue generating customers are the ones that have left. And, you know, there are fans of the team. There are people who buy tickets. But the big block ticket owners, the suite owners, the corporate sponsors, these are the people that just said years ago, if not more recently,

I can't do this anymore. I just can't do this until he goes. Because as I, you know, as we've said to each other many times, it's not just the losing. It's not just the fact that they've had one playoff win this century. It's the off-putting way in which they've operated. The behavior. You know, this guy Tommy yesterday, you know, told me he grew up in New York. He was a Giants fan.

And, you know, his father and uncles and everybody told him how great the Giants of the 50s and 60s. etc, with Sam Huff, you know, and all those great teams. And then there he was in the 70s and they had terrible teams. And he said, you know, people wanted Wellington Mara. They were burning up tickets and chanting Mara must go. And he said, don't, you know, and he said this, you know, during this interview yesterday, he said, don't discount the possibility that, you know, the team starts to win. And then all of a sudden Dan becomes a different kind of figure.

And I just said, no, no, no. It's apples and oranges. The Snyders are not the Maras. Certainly not the old man. This is a completely different situation because this has been so much more than losing. Because you can lose, and there are lovable losers. Look at the Cubs for all of those years. This has been a hateable loser, a loser that has embarrassed, you know,

the significant majority of what used to be the fan base. And he's been such an off-putting incompetent owner that no one wants to be associated with an organization that's run by him. It's completely different. If Bill Parcells came in and was the coach and we drafted LT and started to win under Snyder, of course some people would say, ah, they got a winning team. I'm back on board. But still, most people were never coming back until he was gone. And I think we both agree that he's going to be gone.

He's going to sell. Yes. Happy Thanksgiving. All right, let's talk about what's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, this segment of the podcast is brought to you by our good friends at Shelley's back room. You know, I was at Shelly's yesterday afternoon and joined one of those days that I talked about the other day on the podcast. One of those beautiful days where you sit outside in their great outdoor cafe. and watch the world go by while you're smoking a cigar and having a drink.

And today is another one of those days, you know. Today is absolutely another one of those days to be there at Shelley's. Whether you're inside or outside, it's like a retreat. And, you know, actually, this is the word they use on their website, and it's perfect description. They call it a comfortable retreat. That's really what it is. It's like an oasis.

I love that. It's an oasis in the middle of the city. Yes. That's really what it is. Was the conversation about Snyder yesterday? Was everybody talking about that like it was a big political thing? Yes, absolutely. A lot of conversation about Skipper Dan.

And while I was having that conversation, I was sitting in one of their overstuffed comfortable chairs that they have there, right next to the couch, cozy couches that they have there. you know, and I pointed this out to people, but I know it's important for some people who are more sensitive to smoke. They have a state-of-the-art air purification system that keeps the atmosphere comfortable for smokers and non-smokers. I'll be going there tonight after I teach my class at Georgetown to watch the World Series on one of their eight high-definition televisions. Nice. So basically, yes, that's the place to be, as they say, as Frank Costanza said in Seinfeld, it's the place to be. Shelly's back room at 1331 F Street, Northwest in the district.

Awesome. I love Shelly's. And by the way, the food's good, burger, beer, cigar on a fall day. By the way, we have plenty of nice fall days ahead. I know. I don't know if you've looked at the extent. We're not going to get chili again. Yes, I have. to late next week. It's basically going to be in the 70s, high 60s to 70s, even the high 70s over the weekend into the early portion of next week.

And then I do see some, you know, like 52, 39, you know, high, low temperature days when we get to next weekend. I have not looked at like the extended forecast because we're now into that time of year, everybody knows, or most of you know, that I'm always looking out for the next big snowstorm opportunity. It is November. We've had snow in November before. So it's always possible, but it seems like we're off to a pretty warm fall start. I love this time of year. Love it. All right. So if we both are in agreement that this is going to happen, the first thing I will say is I was told yesterday that this is something that could absolutely be fast-tracked, that it's not a Denver situation with the Bolin family, where it took months and months and there was

squabbling with the Bolin kids. This is something that basically the league has control over. Like if they want this to happen quickly, it can happen quickly. Now, you know, there is, it's a big financial transaction. And so there, you know, there's the investment banker, which, by the way, they will haul an unbelievable commission for a full sale of this footage. football team. There are lawyers, but this can be fast-tracked once they have the winning bid, and once that bid is approved by the league. So what are you hearing in terms of names? Are you hearing anything? I've got no particular intelligence other than the rounding up the usual suspects. You know, people who have tried to buy sports franchises recently.

football, basketball, baseball, and come up short, people with the wherewithal to do so. All those people and Jeff Bezos. His name comes up all the time, and his name has come up in connection with this franchise many times because he's Washington-based now. He owns the Washington Post. Amazon's building this huge headquarters in Northern Virginia. so people have always made the logical connecting the dots. You know, he's obviously, he's got his fingers all over the NFL.

I mean, his network is now showing Amazon Prime, shown Thursday Night Football, his Amazon Web Services actually does the schedule for the league right now. So he's everywhere with the league except owning a team, which would be the last step in doing that. I have no particular insight into who might be the frontrunner or something like this or who really might be interested. Just out of curiosity, do you have an opinion on Jeff Bezos as a potential owner being obviously not only the wealthiest man on the planet? I guess Elon Musk might be. It's probably one too, right? I'm talking about Americans anyway. I mean, I'm sure there are Saudi princes and oil tycoons that are wealthier. But do you have an opinion on Amazon's CEO, given that they are a significant partner to the league with him owning a team?

I am not put off by Jeff Bezos like a lot of people are. I'm not talking about put off. I'm not talking about anything in terms of political or anything else. I'm talking about is there a conflict of interest? You know, there doesn't, I don't think conflicts of interest even exist anymore, Kevin. Right. I really don't. Yeah, I hear you.

Yeah. I just don't think they do. They used to. I mean, like John Henry owns the Boston Red Sox, and he owns the Boston Globe. Okay? You know, I just don't think conflicts really exist anymore. I mean, most of them. many of the owners in the league

do business with Jerry Jones' Legends Hospitality Company. Right. Jerry Jones is one of the primary owners of a food and beverage company, which also sells suites and sponsorships. And many

teams are partner, you know, buy that from him. So they're already given that owner money for a business connected to the league. The Washington commanders made a deal with legends. to sell their suites and corporate sponsorships for their new stadium, whenever that happens. Now, people would think, well, that's a conflict of interest.

He's an NFL owner. There's no more rules, Kevin. It's money, money rules. I mean, didn't the Chicago. All the niceties. Yeah. Yeah, the Chodd, the Tribune used to own the Cod. Right.

The Dodgers, the Fox TV used to own the Dodgers. Ted Turner owned the Braves. Yeah. So I don't think there's. There's many rules left when it comes to conflict of interest. I think I'm with you on that, definitely. So, I mean, like you said, I mean, the guy that was on yesterday mentioned Bezos and Musk, and then essentially said, look at all the tech guys and look at all the financial guys in New York.

And so there are a couple of names of note that I have heard in addition to, you know, the obvious, like Jeff Bezos. and the name Byron Allen's come up a lot. Byron Allen is the CEO of Allen Media Group. He used to be a comedian. He was in on the potential purchase of Denver before the Walton family got it. He would have become the first black owner of an NFL franchise if he had gotten the Broncos.

But I've, you know, I think I've been told that he would be one of the guys to look at. Josh Harris is another name that I've heard. Josh grew up in Chevy Chase, went to the field school in D.C. He is the owner of the New Jersey Devils. He is a part owner of the Philadelphia 76ers. He at one point before the Walton family emerged was considered one of the frontrunners for the Broncos. He also, by the way, has a relationship with Magic Johnson who came into his group for the potential purchase of Denver, but that went to the Walton family.

So those are two names in addition to the, you know, the biggest names that I've heard. You know, just if you look at like the 400 richest Americans on the Forbes list, you know, like the Rails brothers, who, by the way, are Walt Whitman graduates, much older than I am, but they actually founded the station. You know, they were the ones that launched sports talk. radio in D.C. when they launched Sports Talk 570, which eventually became Sports Talk 980.

And then they sold it to Clear Channel, right? Clear Channel or Cumulus, and then it was sold to Clear Channel. I forget how that all worked out. I don't know if they have any interest, but they're certainly capable of buying it. There is David Rubinstein, who, along with Ted Leonis, has been considered you know, part of what would be a front-running group to buy the nationals. You know, you could get a Rubinstein with a bunch of the Carlisle guys together. So, you know, like locally when you look at people who might have an interest in the team that live in the DMV, like somebody said, what about the Mars family? Well, they are, you know, one of the wealthiest American families, but they don't do sports teams.

You know, they just do M&Ms. And, by the way, do them very well. So, I mean, those are some of the names I've heard. Here's what I hope happens with the new owner. You know, and I've said this before, some of, you know, the one or two of you out there that have always said, you know, be careful what you wish for. What does that even mean?

Be careful what you wish for. It could never be worse than it's been for the last 23 years. They have won one playoff game this century. So it's possible that the next owner won't be a good owner and they won't be a winning franchise. But it can't be worse. But I hope that number one, it's somebody that certainly has deep pockets. Number two is somebody who is likable and can communicate. Because I think one of the first things that needs to happen, they've got to go to D.C.

and they've got to convince D.C. to not necessarily just build them the stadium, but certainly to participate in the building of infrastructure and to get that land, to get the RFK land from the Department of the Interior. A stadium in D.C. would be number one on the list in terms of making this next owner super, you know, popular and people all of a sudden engaging. Number two on the list for me is I think they can redo the whole brand. This is not a sale that will be based on a longstanding brand. Whoever buys this team is just buying an NFL team in what is a very lucrative market

and untapped lucrative market. 2-22 wasn't, you know, it's not even six months ago. Oh, yes, it was. It's at this point, what, 11 months ago or 10 months ago, whatever. It hasn't been a year. And there's no brand value in the commanders or the uniforms or the stupid fight song or the mascot. There's no brand buying here. There's no value. In fact, it's actually probably a negative in the sale. It would have been much more advantageous for the new. purchaser of the team to have a chance to totally rebrand on their own and start from scratch. But I don't think no matter what it costs, it costs the last owner. It's not costing the new owner

to start over. That's a sunk cost what they spent to totally rebrand the team. I think they should go to Washington being the brand. And whether that's Washington football team or Washington FC or FC Washington, and we end up calling them the skins. Just like the senators were always the Nats because they were the nationals way back in the day before they became the nationals again when Montreal moved here. I think they should rebrand the team, get the old uniforms back. The helmets are fine. We don't need the logo.

I understand that's a non-starter. I actually like the W as the brand, Washington is the brand, and leaving that is the helmet. And I think they should completely do a rebrand. And I think it should be Washington focused. If they want to go Washington hogs or something like that, that's better. But the commanders and the decisions that they made with respect to the rebrand haven't been popular and really are clunky and not very sharp and not very, you know, I don't want to hold on to the past. I don't want relics of the past to be embraced, you know, as props, Tommy. You know, if Joe Gibbs ended up being a part of an ownership group, of course I would feel

good about it. But I don't need that necessarily. I just want it to be competent. Like, in some ways, I'd rather Peyton Manning be involved in the next ownership group. You know, the nostalgia is great. We'll always have that. But, you know, clinging to the past at this point, it just says. seems like that's gotten old, and for me maybe a little bit as well. But I don't want the new

owner to just accept this, you know, brand new name and the associated, you know, accoutrements. I don't, I think, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with completely starting over, because I don't think anything that they're acquiring is valuable there in terms of the brand. I would agree with you about the brand. It was such a pathetic. rollout, and they've invested so little in really have in trying to sell and change the thought process of a fan base in that brand. I think changing the brand back to something different is certainly doable. You're right about the stadium.

I mean, and the door has now opened for RFK. I mean, if Dan Snyder is not on the team, you know, the district and the RFK site, becomes much more in play. And even if the city council was still an issue, you can, depending on who's in power and the government, you can bypass them and go right to the federal government because it's federal land. Okay, your biggest problem would still be the NIMBYs

in the neighborhood, not in my backyard, which would be a powerful force. But still, a new stadium and RFK site is now a possibility, far more of a possibility than it would ever be under Dan Snyder. Here's a name, let me throw out to you. Todd Bowley, he's one of the minority owners of the Dodgers. Yeah, the Dodgers guy. I heard that name.

Chelsea Football Club, too, right? Yeah, he grew up in McLean. Oh, I didn't know that. The local guy. I didn't know that. Yeah, he's a local guy. That's a name to look out for. Well, he was also in as a potential or was a bidder on the Broncos as well.

So that's interesting. I didn't know. So you've got Josh Harris who grew up in Chevy Chase and this guy, Todd Bowley, you say grew up in McLean? Yes. Wow. There are a lot of billionaires out there that grew up in this area, you know. Well, we haven't got to the big question yet. What?

Are you going to be putting together a group? to buy the team. I mean, you know, talking about, you know, groups with money, have you been working on amassing a group? I'd have to be introduced to some of your friends down at Shelley's back room. I mean, that's about the only way it would happen. You're bad, man. I do think, though, that, you know, we will get into this. Once it's official that they really are, you know, we start to hear that this is an actual sale officially.

somebody will end up having that news, that this is, you know, they are now entertaining formal bids, a formal bidding process for the complete sale of the 100% ownership of the Washington commanders. You know, we could, then we'll start doing deep dives into all of these owners and we'll, we'll pick our favorites, you know. But we're, you know, we're not, none of these people more likely than not, I guess it's possible that we could get an owner of another team. A lot of you reached out to say, no, on Ted. when this guy said, well, what about Ted?

Well, no. I mean, Ted would be a hell of a lot better than Dan. Of course. Of course. The learners would be a hell of a. Tommy, what about the learners? They sell the Nats. They buy the commanders.

Yeah. I'm being serious. No, I don't think that's an option. Well, they can afford it. Yeah, I know that. I know they can afford it. But I think they've got a state issue that they want to avoid. What if Dan decides to buy the Nats?

Somebody mentioned that. Oh, this is, I know. I know. Somebody mentioned all that. All that stuff. Here's the irony. I mean, the poor Nationals, they can't even get front page when it comes to team sales. You know?

I mean, here the Nats are on the block. They're up for sale. And now the football team goes up for sale. So now the baseball team for sale is still not the most important business deal in sports in this town. you know because now the football team it's up for sale yeah and you know and the oriole are probably going to be up for sale uh in the near future like this is like the Costco for sports franchises right now you know this is a place to go not one stop shopping for multiple sports franchise it's amazing um how about how about the rg three push to be um a minority

shareholder in the commanders oh what a clown what a clown and what a And the people who take them seriously, they're even bigger clowns. You know? I mean, he's such a clown. He's really, he's very good on the air. I know. Let me just say this. He's better for me calling a game because when he calls college games, he's really good.

I think he's getting a little bit, I don't, he's fine in the studio or on the Monday night set. he's not my favorite. He's not as good as I thought he would be there. He's almost too overly enthusiastic that, but I will tell you this, if we didn't have the history that we have with him, he's very likable on the air. He really is charismatic and he's always been a phenomenal communicator and he's smart. But, you know, so you think it's clownish. And I, I kind of agree with you, but just remember where he played college football, where he is a living legend, right in the middle of oil and gas country. You don't think that there are people down there that just revere RG3 that are mega, mega wealthy that would say, huh? I don't.

I don't think they are. Well, I know there are. I know there are those people. I think there are people who revere what he did. would probably think he's a clown too. Yes, but remember, you know, and I think what RG3 has been pushing for is the minority stake, you know, if that's what's, and we both agree that that's not what's happening here. And by the way, you know, if it turned out that, you know, you were 95% wrong and I was 90% wrong and they're just selling a minority stake and they're looking for diversity, because that's what they would be looking for in that case. You know what's funny about this is, hasn't he, I have to be honest, I don't sit there and follow RG3 and get into all of the RG3 stuff on social media.

I find it to be incredibly insufferable and has been over the years. But hasn't he been critical recently of Snyder in the organization? Somebody's told me that. He may have been. Yeah. I don't know. But again, still, still, that even makes it more clownish, you know? Because he wasn't critical of Snyder when he used his yacht for his wedding, his honeymoon.

You know? He wasn't critical then. Did everybody hear what just doing what Tommy just said? Let me just tell you that may have been a salary cap violation back in the day. We all knew about it. I figure enough years have gone by. I think so. Let me just tell you.

I think we have. Let me just say Dan's boat for a wedding. a honeymoon. It's not cheap to have that thing for as long as he had it for with his new bride. His first bride, by the way, not the second bride. So, I mean, it showed disingenuous for him now to be dumping on Snyder since he was his best buddy when he was here. But I guess, you know, whether you're friends with Snyder, whether your enemies with Snyder, you know, everyone winds up an enemy of Dan Snyder. You know what?

The only friends he has are the ones that he pays for. Yeah. I mean, I think that's true. I mean, this is where I think sometimes, like, I do try, and I, you don't as much. I do try to check myself when I, when I am personally attacking somebody for not having any friends, and I have no idea if he actually doesn't have friends. Because I'm sure there, you know, that there's the long-time friendship that he's had with the guy that he went to high school with.

You know, the doctor that was, you know, apparently set up on fight night with one of the cheerleaders, or at least that was the accusation. You know, I don't know. And, you know, I don't know that he's not a terrific family guy. What we do know is he's been a horrible, horrible owner. And the stories we have heard personally about the way employees have been treated it's been horrendous. And we were close enough as, you know, employees of a radio station that was owned in part by a Snyder group

and was affiliated with the station as the longtime rights holder to know that for many years, the people, a lot of the people, not everybody that worked out there, not the brightest group and not, you know, the warmest of groups of people that you'd necessarily. You know, the bottom line is I said this so many times. The worst combination is being arrogant and being limited intellectually, and so many of those people were. And it was, you know, it was who he was comfortable with. You know, those are the kinds of people he was comfortable with. He wanted people that basically, you know, he never wanted to hire anybody that was smarter than him or even remotely close to as smart as him.

Anyway, whatever. Can we go to just a couple of Washington football items and the world? series? Yes is the answer. And we'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by my good friends at my bookie, go to my bookie.com or my bookie.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. And they'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to a thousand dollars. I've said this so many times, even if you're already betting through another site, take the free money from my money. my bookie. It's free money they're handing out. Sure, you've got to place some bets before they're

just going to give you the money, but it's still money in your account for nothing. You don't have to pick any winners to get it. Doubling your first deposit is not an offer that most places make, and you should have a second place. If you're taking this seriously, you should always have more than one place to wager with so you can compare point spreads and compare pricing. It all. all adds up. You know, you don't want to be sitting there on minus two and pushing on a 2422 final when you could have won at minus one and a half, which by the way is the run line tonight in Houston, Philadelphia game. The money line, Houston's minus one and a half plus 102. The money line, Houston with Verlander on the bump tonight, minus 156 over Noah Sindegard

and Philadelphia in game five. We'll get to the World Series in a moment. There is a football game tonight. And the football game is also Philadelphia and Houston. The Eagles trying to stay unbeaten. They are a 13 and a half point favorite against the Texans. That'll be an interesting situation in Philadelphia tonight. You know, game five of a two-two world series. I would imagine there will be a lot of flipping back and forth. But if you're in a bar in Philly tonight, how many, if it's a bar, how many TVs do Shelly's have? Eight. How many of the TVs are on the World Series and how many of them are on the football game? Well, generally, I'll tell you, I don't know. It depends on.

If Shelly's weren't Philadelphia. I would say five to six on the World Series. Yeah, it's got to be right. Because you've got a seven and nothing football team playing a bad Texan team, okay, as opposed to the World Series. So I would think, you know, two-thirds, if not three. quarters would be on the World Series. Look, the Major League Baseball is going to benefit from the fact that this Thursday night game is on Amazon Prime and not on, you know, easily accessed television. I mean, if it goes to a seventh game, Sunday night, they'll take a beating on that.

Maybe they won't. Maybe they won't take a beating. A seventh game in the World Series. No, it'll take a beating. Kansas City. A beating? They'll get beat. They'll get beat.

I don't know if they'll take a beating. Two different things. No, no, no, I understand that. But whenever we've seen in recent years, the NFL up against World Series games, the NFL has crushed the World Series. A game seven's different, but remember, it's Mahomes and the Chiefs on Sunday Night Football. Now, they're 12 and a half-point favorites against Derek Henry and the Titans, but still, it's football. I would expect football to win. I would, too. So anyway, my bookie. Washington, by the way, a three and a half point underdog right now. So if you like Washington Sunday, go to my bookie and take advantage of the half point because I've seen it at three in a lot of spots.

I don't know where that line's going to go. I don't. I am excited about the game Sunday because of what you and I talked about the other day. and many people have reached out to say, wow, seriously, you think you're watching a playoff team? I didn't say that I was watching a playoff team. What I said was I see a team that can win five out of their last nine games. I believe in them defensively. I believe that Taylor Heineke is capable of playing good enough in five of the games and having a team around them that believes enough in him. and that they could win five of their last nine games and be nine and eight,

and at nine and eight, they've got a legitimate chance to qualify for the playoffs as the seven seed. Yeah, I do believe that, but it's really driven by the fact that I think they're a good defensive team. And we'll find out Sunday against Minnesota. We'll find out next Monday night against Philadelphia, for sure. But anyway, by the way, think about this, Tommy. What if Philadelphia were to win the World Series on Sunday night? Oh, wait a minute. That's not this week.

I was going to say, and then it's followed up by the Eagles with a bunch of rowdy Philadelphia Eagles fans celebrating a World Series game at a Monday night game, but that's a week from Monday night. Just ignore what I said. Who do you like in the game? I like the Vikings, 35 to 20 over to commanders. I think this is – speaking of beatings, I think this is the beating. I think the hated Kirk cousins, four touchdown passes.

Big day. Kirk was asked yesterday about, he was asked about the Snyder News and he said he had no comment on that. He was asked about his time in Washington and he said that he has nothing but fond memories. And somebody said, what's the one moment? He talked about the Philadelphia game in 2015 at the end of the year where he threw for 360 some yards and four touchdowns. as he was, you know, stat stuffing with garbage yards in a game they won by 14. But it was also the game, yes, I remember what he did at the end of the first half where he kind of lost track.

But, you know, Jay Gruden came on my show, and we talked about that game. He said, that was Pierre Garcone's fault. He said Pierre refused to run the fade. He didn't want to run the fade. That's one of the great stories, actually. I've got to go find that and run that for all of you, maybe on tomorrow's podcast. what Jay Gruden said about the Cousins' half-time debacle and the first half debacle against the Eagles in 2015.

I'm going to go look for that. So you got him 35 to 20. I'll have my prediction and a game preview tomorrow. Hopefully with Cooley, we'll know more later today as to whether or not he can come on the show tomorrow. But it's a big game. It's a big game for both teams. Look, it's 6 and 1 against 4 and 4 in the NFC.

this is a, you know, this is a big game in conference. Now, I don't know that it'll be a tie-breaking kind of game with Minnesota because I think Minnesota is probably going to win their division, you know, right now. I mean, there's a lot of football to be played. I don't like the game tonight. The Eagles, by the way, are 13 and a half, 14-point favorites at my bookie right now, minus 13 and a half. I don't really like the game.

If you forced me to play it, I'd probably take the points just because I think, you know, overall, when in doubt on double-digit favorites, take the dog in the NFL, because they cover, it seems like a lot. Houston may be the bad team in the NFL. We may be discovering here over the next few weeks that Houston's actually the one team that really does stink in the NFL. They didn't trade Brandon Cooks. The Cowboys were in the running form. Apparently other teams were as well. But anyway, I'm looking forward to a good football weekend. But I did watch the game last night, and it's amazing, you know, sports. The night before, five home runs ties the record for the most home runs in a World Series game.

The next night they get no hit, you know, in a collective no hitter, which was last night. And as amped up as that stadium was the night before and at the beginning of this game and through the first four innings, man, you could hear a pin drop when the Astros, you know, loaded up on them with five runs in the fifth to really put that game. You could hear a pin drop in between the booing. Right. But they did. There was a certain amount of booing as their team literally didn't get a hit for the whole game. I mean, Javier was incredible. Good God.

Yeah. Yeah, he was. I think that's who Houston is, really. I know Justin Verlanders going tonight. I would hope that Duffy doesn't stick with him as long as he did in game one. You know, this is one of Dusty's fault is that he believes in players sometimes too much, you know,

particularly veteran players. But I don't like the Phillies chances with Noah Cindergarde. I don't see a pitching performance in like the Phillies have gotten in the two games that they have won in this series

coming tonight. So I think Houston leaves Philadelphia with a 3-2 lead. Yeah, I don't know what'll happen tonight. I'm rooting for Philadelphia, but like I said before, I also want Dusty to win. It's just been a really good World Series so far. I mean, how often do you see a record-setting home run performance and then followed up by, you know, a four-pitcher, no-hitter in a World Series game? Again, Javier was just light out.

My God, it was unhittable. My measure for events like this is when people who never talk to me or pay attention to sports, ask me about this. And I've been getting a lot of that from the World Series. Well, good. People who don't pay attention, you know, normally, I'll ask them, did you know about this? And they'll reel off everything that happened last night.

And normally they wouldn't pay attention. My son, my youngest son, who went to Penn State, who's now living in New York, went to the Whiteout game, the Penn State, Minnesota game. He had a bunch of friends. They were back for, you know, a weekend of partying in state college. which is a wonderful kind of party college town. But it was in the midst of, you know, the Phillies Padres series. And at Penn State, there are a lot of Philly kids, you know, at that school.

And a lot of those Philly kids are friends with my son. And he, you know, over the years, he's like, oh, my God, it's just they're the worst when it comes to the Eagles and the skins. It's just, I mean, I don't have a leg to stand on in any of this. And it's funny because having gone to Maryland, you know, during the 80s when the Redskins were great and the Giants were great and the Eagles were pretty good. I mean, I had a bunch of friends that were Philly guys, a bunch of friends who were New York guys, you know, Bergen County guys or Long Island guys. And the arguments and the back and forth were great, but all teams were great.

But I won basically all of those arguments back then. I mean, the 86 Giants team, oh my God, giant fans were so awful. But I also kind of understood just the thrill of them finally winning a Super Bowl, even though we had already won one and been in a few at that point. And then it's the same way I kind of felt for Philadelphia fans when they wanted a few years ago after waiting all of those years. You can understand, especially for the Philly fans who were in a division with Dallas, Washington, and the Giants who all had multiple Super Bowl Lombardi trophies.

and they were the team that was always left out. But my son basically said, you would not have believed the bars when Harper hit the home run against the Padres. And just all of the Philadelphia fans, it was like all of the TVs at Penn State in the bars were on that game and not the Penn State game. So he's really following it,

and he couldn't have cared less about baseball, honestly, until this postseason. And he's, you know, he's, you know, He's obviously connected to a bunch of Phillies fans where this is a big deal. I think last night was huge for Houston. I think they're the better team, and I think they'll probably win two of the next three. I hope Bryce somehow ends up putting up massive numbers. I mean, that home run he hit on Tuesday night, and that first pitch was incredible.

I think he went, I mean, well, he did. Everybody went over last night. He may have walked last night. I think he did walk on one at bat against Javier. Did he walk? Yeah, he did walk once. So, and ended up 0 for two overall. All right.

What else you got? Chase Young practice yesterday seems all as well. I don't expect him to play. That's what I've, you know, heard a lot of the beat guys saying. And that seems to make sense to me on Sunday. But maybe you'll get him the following week against Philadelphia, because that's, you know, a week from Monday night.

And they arrested somebody in association with the shooting of Brian Robinson, Jr. The young man was 16 at the time of the shooting. He's 17 now. I don't even know what to say about that. We were going to – I did want to mention this one thing because I saw this during the break and end on this. I was going to talk to you about Kyrie Irving and everything, but we did that the other day, even though there were been a bit of a lot of.

updates. But do you know who passed away yesterday at the age of 72 years old? Oh. Perhaps the greatest punter in the history of the NFL. Oh, Ray Guy. Ray Guy. The only punter who is in the Hall of Fame, I'm pretty sure. Ray Guy, for those of you two young, was an unbelievable punter and weapon for the Oakland and then a gun. And then a eventually the Los Angeles Raiders during a 14-year career, 70s into the 80s. He is a member of the 100-year anniversary, all-time team. Remember when we got that, the top 100 players?

He was great. I mean, he was the guy, right, Tommy, that pretty much invented the, you know, going for what they called the coffin corner. You know, the punt towards the pylon that would go out of bounds inside the 10-yard line. Before he did it, punters were just punting straight away. And if somebody fielded it, great. If it went into the end zone, they didn't think about kicking it towards the out-of-bounds to pin a team inside their 20.

And he became a specialty guy when it came to that. He was an incredible punter during those years. Yes, absolutely. He definitely was. And I don't think there's another punter in the pro football Hall of Fame, I don't think. No, the kickers in the Hall of Fame are Stenarood and then the punter's Ray Guy and then did, Morton Anderson. Yeah, Morton Anderson made it. That's right. But I think, but I think Ray Guy's the only, the only punter in the Hall of Fame. Am I right? Because I didn't read this. I just kind of remember that him being the first guy

to sort of angle punts towards the sideline and trying to pin teams inside the 20. He also had, I think he was the first guy that you, you know, you started to measure this was a new thing,

correct me if I'm wrong, hang time with a punter. Because his punts went so high up into the air and they realized that gave more time for the coverage to get down. and usually, you know, resulted in a fair catch. I don't think that people really measured hang time before Ray Guy.

Am I right or wrong? This was a bridge too far for you, Kevin. Oh, boy. Coffin Corner was started by a coach for Princeton in 1932 named Leroy Mills. He actually came up with the name Coffin Corner Kid. Okay. Okay. He was the first guy to use a punt as a weapon.

What year? What year? 1932, Kevin. So only 40 years. too late. What about hang time? What about hang time? Oh, I don't know. Haven't you driven down this road enough? Back to car up. Forget about it. I'm looking up Ray guy hang time. Oh, geez. People are hanging themselves right now.

Out there are looking at it. Yeah, they're hanging themselves right now. He had a career high 77-yard punt in Denver in 1977. There you go. Okay. Let's save this for a segment in July. Trashway. All-fain punter or not? No, but the punter, why am I forgetting the name of the punter during the 90s that was the last all-pro player for Washington before Brandon Sheriff became the punter? What's his face, you know, whose brother was the long snapper? A Turk. Matt Turk was the only punter, the only player. The only player, the only player, during the Snyder era until Brandon Sheriff who made a first team all pro.

And that was, so he essentially went like, you know, 15 years without having a first team all pro because Trent Williams was never a first team all pro here. He was a second team all pro. Are we done? I hope so. Do you remember? I got nothing else for you, Bob. Nothing else.

Do you remember Matt, do you remember Matt, Turney? poor brother, God rest his soul. Oh, yeah. He rolled that snap back in the Tampa playoff game. I was in the stadium in Tampa when that happened. And then he didn't take the plane ride with the team back home. And then he died like a year later. It's awful.

Okay. That's it for the day. I'll be back tomorrow.