The Kevin Sheehan Show - 29%

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on a ton of topics including the Caps' Game 2 loss in Florida, the new Washington Commanders' marching band, the latest poll on the disappearing Washington football (Commanders) fan base, the Rivera-Carolina connection, and more. Eddie C jumped on to preview and pick the Kentucky Derby.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show is Kevin. Turn it over. 2-1-0, and they're stuck. And it's floor one. The Panthers, even the series with the Capitals, and one game apiece. Yeah, rough night for the Caps last night.

They lose game 2, 5 to 1. The Panthers kind of flex their muscles, their offensive muscles last night. The Caps had that four-minute opportunity. down 3-1 with a power play couldn't generate anything, and the series is all knotted up at a game apiece. But, you know, what they say about these best of sevens for the team that is on the road to start, we just need a split. And the Capitals did get a split, Tommy, in Florida. I don't know if it really applies to hockey as much, but they got their split and they're coming home for a game tomorrow afternoon. Yes. Yes, tomorrow afternoon. Why? It's a 1 o'clock

Yes, it's a one o'clock start on the ESPN. I got to tell you. What? Listen. And I know people will raise their eyebrows on this, but I don't particularly give a shit. I'm not that particularly interested about the capitals this year because it actually turns my stomach. Oh, God. That old Mexican is such a defender of Putin.

That's really why you're not watching? Is that really? I mean, it seems, yes. It seems so hypocritical. to sit there and pay attention to this team and this player, you know, given his political alignments and his personal alignments, they make me sick. Okay.

So you didn't watch the game last night. No. It's fine. It's just, I just think that there are so many things that matter more to ending the war. between Russia and Ukraine. In a hockey game, nothing matters. So this matters more than anything in the hockey game. Well, this matters more than anything we talk about on this podcast on any given day.

This is a diversion for people. This is a diversion for people. They don't want to hear us talk about Ovechkin's Instagram photos with Putin. But you brought up the hockey. hockey game. I explained why I wasn't watching. I don't want to make it a big discussion. Well, you have in the past. Well, I think, well, we've, I mean, you want to talk, you want to talk about Roe v. Wade? Should we go Roe v. Wade in the second segment? No, no, no, no, no. I mean, what else do you

want to do here? I just was explaining why I am not interested in this series. Okay, can I? And it makes me a little sick to my stomach. I'm, I, I, okay, fine. We, we understand your point. And your position. Now, with respect to the game last night, the Panthers did flex their offensive muscles. They've been a high-scoring, high-octane team all year long. They hung five on the capitals. Vanichek got removed for Samsonov. It'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. I haven't read yet that they've made a decision on the goaltender for game three. But I do think what is intriguing about the NHL playoffs every single year is that basically anything can happen. This is the sport of

the best of sevens, you know, baseball, basketball, and hockey, where virtually any result is possible. It doesn't matter if you ended up with 35, you know, less points than your opponent. We've seen eight seeds beat one seeds. We've seen eight seeds win the Stanley Cup. It is a sport that is incredibly unpredictable and I'm you know I've had this discussion by the way in recent days actually with people who really like hockey and I'll just tell you as you know I've been you know over the last week or so I've I've had to spend time at a hospital nearby my mother's been in the hospital for over a week she's getting better but I had a conversation with somebody who I ran into as I was walking in and the person said you know hey I'm a fan of the pie

and the radio show, Love You and Tommy together, et cetera. When are you getting Cooley back on was the question the other day? Anyway, long story. By the way, Cooley was on for those of you just tuning in. Cooley was on yesterday, did a film breakdown of Sam Howell and Jahan Dotson. It was excellent, and I know a lot of you were thrilled with it. For those of you that for whatever reason said to me, ooh, Cooley disagrees with your positions and you got really bent out of shape.

What are you talking about? I love Jahan Dotson. I loved him before the draft and I love the pick. I think he's going to be a really good player. And so does Cooley. And as far as Sam Hal, when we've had discussions about quarterbacks before the draft, he was the one quarterback I didn't like more than any other. It's not that I liked any of the quarterbacks.

Malik Willis was the guy that I liked a lot. I didn't like Sam Hal. Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked here. I had this conversation with this gentleman when I came back down from where I was and he happened to have been there as well, and we ended up talking, and he's a massive hockey fan. And he kind of took an exception to me not being a big Caps fan, which is what Sands did the other day, by the way, on the podcast. Anyway, long story short, or shorter, he just said, you know, hockey's not as random as you think it is. And I said, really, and he said, there's definitely puck luck.

There's no doubt about that. But the teams that are really skilled and are well-coached, they create more. quality chances than teams who aren't as good. And it's the volume of quality chances that you get that eventually makes puck luck less important. Because if you're throwing more quality chances at the opposing goaltender in a game, even if you, you know, are unlucky from a puck perspective, you're still going to have a chance to, you know, land a couple of them.

And he said Florida is, this was before the series started, But Florida is much more skilled than Washington. They're much faster than Washington. And he goes, I'd be very surprised if Washington pulls it off. And I just said to him, I wouldn't be. But what do I know? Well, how does that explain the Canadians an eight-seed against the number one seed capitals a few years back,

who were very fast and full of tremendous skill players getting beat in that series. I mean, how did they just explain the simple fact of the hot goaltender? Yes. You know, it's Tark El Bashir has said that before as well. I mean, this sport should just be called goalie.

But then I said that to him, or I said something about that. You know, it was Halak, right? The Montreal goalie, and I think I brought that up and maybe something else. The Kings that wanted it as an eighth seed, I forget, I'm not that long ago.

I think that's true. Maybe like in 2015. or something like that. You hockey people will correct me on that, but I think they were an eight seed, and they won the cup. And he said, well, that's fine,

but then how do you explain how many dynasties there have been in the sport? You know, the Canadians, the Islanders, the Edmonton teams of the 80s, the Pittsburgh Penguins teams of the 90s, the Penguins teams here in recent vintage with Crosby. And, you know, that is kind of a good point.

Look, one of the things we've said about the NFL so much over the years is how it's built, you know, for parity. And yet we have over the last 20 years lived through the, you know, you could argue the greatest dynasty in the history of the game, the Patriots. Yes. And yet in baseball, you know, people complain that, you know, there is an imbalance that, you know, know that the rich teams, the teams with the most money always win. But yet, out of the last 21 World Series, there have been 20 different teams in the World Series. Right. So sometimes there's no explanation that work.

Right. I mean, it was a really good. I thought it was a really good point. It's like hockey, you could almost say has had more dynasties, although I think the NBA's had some real dynasties. You know, obviously the Celtics of the 60s. You know, you get into the Lakers and the Celtics of the, you know, of the 80s. And, you know, you had, you've had big runs. I mean, the Bulls and the Pistons and the Lakers again.

And the Lakers. Yeah, absolutely. And the Warriors, you know, of recent vintage. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yes. I don't know.

I don't have an answer for the hockey thing. I do. I, and I've said this a lot, but I'll say. it again. I do find the NHL playoff close game to be as riveting as anything you watch in sports, in part

because it just can end so abruptly. Like the overtime thing is pretty cool. In the tension, and by the way, the fan bases of these teams, they're all so damn passionate. That goes for the Caps fan base too. You know, it is

right now, Tommy, of the professional sports teams in town. And it's been this way for a while. Forget the overall numbers. And we're going to talk some numbers, by the way. There was a poll done by Channel 9 on the Washington Commanders fan base. But overall, there's not been a more passionate fan base over the last 10 years, 12 years, than the Capps fan base, in terms of just wanting it so badly. And being there and being supportive and being loyal.

Yes. A hundred percent right. Game three tomorrow. A hundred percent right. I mean, I'm just going to say, game three tomorrow at one o'clock. All right, what's next? You don't have anything else in this moment. They're getting the band back together again.

They're getting the band back together again. We'll talk about that. I wanted to read this quick review from Bruce, spelled B-R-O-O-C-E, Allen, A-L-D-D-S-E, L-E-N. This via Apple podcast, please rate us and review us whenever you can. If you haven't done it, it'll take you 30 seconds to give us five stars in a quick one-to-two-two-sentence review. Bruce Allen wrote a lengthy review for us. He gave us five stars, but the title of it was, this guy is so mean to me. I'm not sure what I did or said to deserve such mean words from this

man, so toxic and hateful to me. I didn't even do anything wrong. This guy, Kevin, and his minion, Tom, have not praised me yet for the damn good culture I brought to this historic franchise. You guys still haven't realized that the, uh, that you, what you, the, the gem you lost is a GM and president of football operations. I will, I will await an apology from these two anti-Brus Allen propagandists. Uh, thank you, Bruce for writing us. means Bruce is listening. That's great. He paid attention.

Look, they all claim they don't pay attention, and they all pay attention. A lot of people pay attention that say they don't pay attention. Because I remember the only time I ever heard from Bruce Allen was an email about a column I wrote about an old Redskins lineman who had passed away, John Wilbur. I remember this. And he complimented me on it. So I know he was reading me. because that's the only time he ever, I'm sure I ever wrote anything that he liked.

I don't think Bruce listened at all. In all honesty, I don't think Bruce listened at all to Sports Talk Radio. Not even a little bit. But he was an old school guy, so he would read the newspapers. Yes, this is true, and I think he thought. That's what he would do. I don't think he understood. Bruce definitely was very much stuck in the 70s.

which is one of the reasons he wanted the games back on WMAL so much, you know. But anyway, it's funny because as critical as we were of Bruce over the years, every time I ran into Bruce, you know, typically out at the park in our radio studio, Bruce was always nice. And I don't know Bruce at all. Bruce definitely had this error about him that he was 100% the smartest guy in the room and nobody knew anything compared to what he knew

including the owner which probably was true and I think overall I mean we will certainly say about the Bruce Allen era it was a disaster with him as the teams GM and the team president I think it's also worth mentioning that his job essentially was to shelter Dan Snyder from all of it. You know, Snyder became the recluse that he is today when Bruce Allen arrived in the organization in 2010. He was much less of a recluse when it was he and Vinny, you know, kind of being able to do whatever they wanted with the various coaches that they had.

and you know coolly always described bruce allen the hiring of bruce allen as dan's attempt to become a better owner and that he hired him and he gave him so much more responsibility than you know clearly viny or any coach previously had he just hired the wrong guy to do it and then obviously got in the middle of a lot of stuff as well and then blamed him on the way out Yes. So what do you make it? The new band story. They're bringing back Washington's band, and apparently they're going to have a revamped

arrangement of the fight song that would be hail to the Redskins. We say that on this podcast without much worry. That's what they were. They were the Washington Redskins, and it was the Washington Redskins, and it was the Washington Redskins marching. band and the name of the song that was played forever was hail to the Redskins. So they're bringing back. Which at one point, at one point had the words Dixie in it.

Yes. They took Dixie out. Yeah. When did they did? They took Dixie out. Look, I'm all in favor of music. Most music makes people feel good when they hear it. Yeah.

And I think the marching band is a great thing. It's a George Marsh. Marshall invention. I mean, this was, I know, George Marshall may have been a low-life human being, but he was a hell of a promoter. He was the guy who really put on the big half-time shows and created the first marching band in the NFL. And I think it's great. I think fans love it. I think it's a good thing. And it needs certainly to be modernized a little bit, and apparently it will. The Vice President of Guest Experience, Joey Colby Bogovic for the commanders. Quote, we are very excited to bring back the marching band with a new sound as we enter the inaugural season of the Washington commanders.

We have continually emphasized the return of traditions that have lived with the franchise for decades. Well, not everybody has. Not everybody has welcomed the return of traditions. The coach isn't crazy about him. The coach isn't crazy about traditions? About returning to anything in the past. Oh, yeah, right. Coach wants to leave the past behind.

Right. You know? Forget about the past. They're also very much behind the hashtag HTT, which they are now using on social media. People have asked me in recent weeks about, what I think of Take Command as the hashtag. I'm just not really following all of this that closely. I don't really care that much about this.

HTT or Take Command, like what is it? The official hashtag of the team? I mean, I don't care. I mean, when this vice president of guest experience, Joey Colby Bogovic says, you know, we're excited to bring back the marching band with a new sound as we entered the inaugural season of the Washington commanders. Those last, you know, a few words of that sentence sums it up for me.

This feels like the inaugural season of an expansion team. So you're going to have to give some of us some time. I don't know if I'll ever embrace this. I have no idea. I can tell you this, if they continue to suck and they continue to suck with, you know, poor behavior, there's no chance of me jumping back in with the same level of passion. I like a lot of the people in the football operation right now. I'm rooting for many of them, including Ron Rivera,

no matter how much he's kind of gotten a little bit slippery here over the last several months. I think he and I think Jason Wright on the business side are quality people. So I am rooting for them as individuals, but they can't, you know, You're not going to change my level of passion right now. I don't know how I'm going to feel when I see the new uniforms on the field in the fall. When I see, you know, the new name and full-screen Kairon next to the Cowboys or next to the Giants, you know, I don't know how I'm going to feel. My guess is very detached, very detached. That's my guess.

You know, it's funny. It's funny. and right, and they certainly seem to be very decent people who want to do the right thing. But it's kind of sad to watch them, like, slowly disappear into the muck, you know? It's like watching somebody in a movie in quicksand, you know? And, you know, they're slowly going down, slowly going down to the place where everybody else has gone before them. And, you know, they didn't know how deep the quick fan was when they came here. But I believe, look, I think this is a good development.

I think fans will like it. I think, like you said, it'll be a little bit of fun and a little bit of a distraction if they needed, and they probably will need some bit of a distraction. I want to take the car and really veer off sort of right here a little bit, but there is a connection. Okay. You with me? I'm listening.

In the press release, it talks about Tanya Snyder, Dan's wife, co-owner and co-CEO, helped design, she helped design the marching band uniforms. So she's involved in this as well. Okay. Now, the reason I bring this up is George Preston Marshall's wife, an actress named Corinne Griffith, is credited with writing the lyrics to the team song. Okay. Okay. And I've been hanging on to this for months waiting for an opportunity, and this is probably as close as I'll come.

Somebody sent me, just to show you how crazy it used to be here sometimes in an era where we weren't, where I didn't even walk the earth. somebody sent me a story from 1953 about Corinne Griffiths speaking to a business group in Baltimore where basically she said the 16th Amendment, which is basically the right to tax people, was called organized thievery and the root of all our evils. she attacked it for the Gestapo it holds over our heads and the dictatorship it is spawning in Washington. She charged it as brought us back to the days of the debtor's prison. She compared the federal government to Hitler's regime claiming both embraced the policy of destroying small businessmen.

This was 1953? Yes. Imagine what a pistol she must have been, comparing the federal government to Hitler. We certainly had some of those accusations recently. And I might want to point out, she received a standing tribute before and after her speech. And George Marshall was in the, her husband, the red-skinned owner, was in the audience. How does this How do you

Why are you connecting this to Tanya Snyder designing the uniforms? Well, because he was connected to the band Well, I understand that He was connected to the band Right So there's the owner's wife Right

Now connected to the band Designing the uniform Okay, so are you going to somehow I said it was Column where Tanya Snyder? No, there's no column to right here Okay No, there's no column to write here

And I'm not saying Tanya Snyder once income tax has done away with or anything like that. But it just goes to show you that when we think things are crazy, there have been times where things have been crazy for decades. Well, haven't we always talked about that? Haven't we always talked about how, you know, everybody wants to live in the moment that is the craziest or the greatest or the worst? And, you know, these people typically have no sense of history.

and what's come before them. But, yeah. But this was, this was, this was, I thought this was hilarious, given that it's like six or seven years after World War II. Yeah. And people were throwing around. It was, it was actually eight years, to be exact. Okay. And, and by the way, right as the Korean War was ending in 1953.

Yes. All right. So, yes. I want to, and I think you've seen this story. I want now to veer back to kind of the conversation about the state of the team and the state of the support and, you know, et cetera. Because Channel 9, this guy, Eric Flack, who's actually had a lot of good stories here over the last six months, right, Tommy? The Channel 9 guy on the stadium, he's been all over the stadium stuff. A lot of stadium stuff.

Right. His name's Eric Flack. And he apparently Channel 9, or I'm sorry, Nielsen did a, a polling of Washington residents, and I'm assuming that there were lots of questions in here, but the part that Eric wrote about was the part that asked through this polling for Washington, D.C. market adults to yay or nay on whether or not they're a fan of the Washington commanders. I'll just read from the actual story on WUSA9.com. According to dated WUSA9, exclusively obtained from the consumer research firm Nielsen Scarborough, only 29% of adults in the Washington, D.C. television market,

which, by the way, includes Virginia and Maryland, called themselves commanders fans. That's fewer than one out of every three people in the area, and it's a gigantic drop from 2004 when 51% of the market said they were fans of Washington's franchise. By comparison, Nielsen Scarborough says 52% of the Baltimore television market still considers itself fans of its NFL franchise, The Ravens. And then you get a bunch of quotes from various fans in here. Then there's a quote from Jason Wright.

Washington Commander's President Jason Wright told WUSA 9 in a one-on-one interview in April, he believes the Nielsen Scarborough research. quote, because when we walked in, we quickly discovered that the fan base was not what it used to be. That's obvious, closed quote. Wright also spoke to the team turning things around with the team ranking fourth right now in the NFL in new season ticket sales and number two in new club season ticket sales and sweet sales. And he said the numbers reflect some enthusiasm for the team, close quote. I'd like to see what those numbers are. Like, are they just compared to where their sales were last year or the year before?

So it's kind of a percentage thing. You know, did we go from three new club seat sales to, you know, eight? Or are these real numbers that are going to impact crowd size next year? Anyway, I did read through this. And I think I have a slightly different take than some others, but I wanted to read this quick tweet from Ben. Ben wrote and attached the Eric Flack story, and he said, Kevin, did you see this?

This is what you've been talking about for a long time now, spelled out in poll form. You've used the famous quote from Jim McKay at the 72 Olympics before, but it does apply. They're all gone. That's from Ben on Twitter. Ben, have I used that? that before to describe the eroding fan base? I hope I haven't because it's inappropriate to use that.

And I'm very familiar with the Jim McKay, 72 Olympics, when the hostages were all found dead. And he said very famously, they're all gone in a very moving, you know, a couple of days, obviously a horrific couple of days. If I've used that to describe the fan base erosion, I apologize because that's not a good analogy. However, back to the story, you would agree, Tommy, that's not a very good analogy to use. Probably not. I mean... Not the worst I've heard. Probably not. I mean, Dan...

Comparing the federal government to Hitler, like George Marshall's wife did, that would seem like a bad analogy. Dan Snyder isn't the equivalent to Palestinian hostage takers. He's pretty bad as an NFL owner, but he's not that. So anyway, we move on. I've got maybe a slightly different take on this. I'm actually surprised that the number is that high. I would have thought it would have been lower. Now, I would have needed to know what the 2004 number was before I answered that.

But in seeing the 2004 number, which was 51% of the respondents said that they were, at that time, Washington Redskins fans, that number would have seemed low to me, but in, you know, given that, you know, not everybody's a football fan and not everybody, you know, this is a transient market, we know that, you know, whatever. The fact that it's fallen from 51 to 29 percent, so it hasn't even fallen by half, is actually and should be good news to the team. Now, it's still a very low number. And I also, I was just reading, so many people tweeted me this story. And this was one from Sorrell something or other on Twitter. She and this is what you've been talking about. This is what's left.

And the fan base needs more of the significant influencers back in the fan base. I have talked about that, that the screamers on social media. that tell you just to shut up and root for the team or leave, that they have very, very little influence over the business of this organization. They're a very small percentage of the fan base, even though they're super chesty on social media. And they tend more than, and this is going to sound a little bit pretentious. I'm not meaning it to be.

It's just factual. Those that have hung in there and have this undying loyal, and have had it and are critical of those that have said no more, you know, very loudly and very sensitively on Twitter, they're just typical, they haven't been part of the big spending group that has gone away. Tommy, you know this. It's the suite holders and the club seat holders that are all, that are gone. You know, that's where they've lost so much. And these were the higher, you know, kind of profit customers that the team had and needs back. And I don't know if they're going to get them back with the feeling of an expansion team here.

And with new uniforms and new everything, I just, I don't know if that's true if they'll come back even with a winner. Or even if Snyder were to leave. You know, I think a lot of those people have kind of moved on maybe for good. But the only test of that would be if Snyder was forced out or sold the team or the team won big. And then we'll know for sure if those people will come back. But anyway, I don't think 29% of the respondents is that low. What's interesting? Well, when you compare it to the Ravens, it's almost half.

No, you're right. It is low, but I thought it was going to be even lower. I would have thought that the number would have been more than half, or less than half of what it was 18 years ago. And it's not. Further in the story, it has something interesting. It talks about their 1.6 million commanders fans in Virginia. Right, I saw that. As opposed to 1.1 million fans in Maryland.

Okay, we kind of thought that, right? that there's more fans in Virginia than there are in Maryland. Well, you have the Ravens in Maryland. Right, right. So we kind of thought that, and it says in here, the success of the Ravens has siphoned off huge chunks of the younger generation in Maryland. And I think that's accurate. But one point, again, for people who say, let's put the stadium in Dumfries and don't worry about Maryland,

that's a million fans. Right, it's still 1.1 million. Yes. Yeah. I mean, this team can't afford to give away 100,000 fans, one or a million fans. But they may not have much of a choice, you know? I mean, the only thing here is that Virginia fans are used to traveling to Maryland for games.

Maryland fans and D.C. fans haven't been asked to drive to Dumfries for a game. Yes. Ever. Ever. The team's been in existence. Right. I think there's another thing here, too, is that the team has, you know, said, at least to some of us over the years, that literally, based on their, you know, research and their data, 75% of their real, true, hardcore fans live outside of the area. And, you know, that number, I think, maybe 10 years ago was.

like 50-50. Now it's like 75%, something like that. And, you know, unfortunately, when it comes to LiveGate and television ratings, et cetera, that's not going to help them much. But I've always found that to be interesting. Now, that is reflective of people, you know, being here and moving. And also, by the way, you know, just a fan base that at one point did have great reach. You know, it had huge reach outside of this market. Now, a lot of it was because people were fans here and then they moved to another area to live. And I've always made the case, Tommy, and I believe this to be true, that people who live away from their hometown are much less likely to give up on their hometown teams, even if those

hometown teams are bad and those that still live in the market have given up on them. because it's like this badge of honor, and it's like this, they love to kind of hang those flags, you know, Caps fans, Nats fans, Skins fans, you know, Wizards fans, when they, they're a DC, you know, a DC guy who now lives in, you know, Dallas or lives in Nashville or lives in Columbus, Ohio. There's this, this pride of representing your hometown team. And the easiest way to represent that many times is through your sports fandom.

And so they're less likely to give up on that than people who live here. And I think that probably goes for almost any fan base. I think that's logical. I think you're right. So what you need to do is move away. Then you won't have given up on them so much. Tommy, Steve Sands, who. was on with us the other day. Steve is still the biggest fan of every single local sports team.

This is where he grew up. He's a Montgomery County guy. And Steve gets upset with some of us. And he listens to the podcast all the time. He'll be hearing this even though he's out at the golf tournament working this weekend out at Wells Fargo. But he's like the perfect example of that. He loves these teams. He hasn't felt, I think people who have lived away for a long period to time, haven't felt the day-to-day wearing down? There you go. It hasn't really cost them much. Not as much, maybe.

No, no, no. He has not to endure the daily flogging. Now let me just end this particular segment on an upbeat note. They're at rookie minicamp this weekend. and, you know, I was, this person that I told you I was having a conversation with, I almost did this with Cooley yesterday, and I had it ready to go, but I decided to back off it and save it for you today. He was doing film breakdowns.

But just this whole notion that the football operation is in a better spot. And this particular person said to me over and over again, what do you think about just all these Carolina guys? And I said, I'm okay with it. I mean, I don't know why so many get worked up over a head coach who has total control of the football operation for now and wants to surround himself with people that he's super comfortable with and that he has, you know, won with before. And a lot of you will, you know, tell me, well, three out of the last nine years were winning seasons. well, he had an overall winning record and went to the playoffs, a lot of Carolina. I don't want to get into his record again.

I mean, it's what it is, and everybody has sort of a different perspective on it. But anyway, when Cam Newton was healthy, they did pretty well. But I just don't have that much of an issue with that. You know, they signed this guy, Alex Erickson, the punt and kickoff returner yesterday. And people were like, there it is, another Carolina guy. Jesus Christ, I mean, enough already with the Carolina connection. Well, first of all, Ron didn't even coach. this dude. He played in Cincinnati when Ron was the coach of Carolina. But I don't really,

I think in many ways this is the kind of organization where it may be super important for Ron to surround himself with people who understand how he works and are loyal to him, you know, especially in this organization. Look, if you're a boss, If you're a good boss, you're going to bring people with you who you have confidence in, who you've worked with before. It's not going to be, you're not going to fill every position with them because you have to be open to new people and new ideas. But there's a certain level of comfort in being able to count on certain people. You know, you are a big boss, okay?

I was a little boss. and I remember when I went back to being a worker, and I took a vow that I said, I was going to be the kind of worker where my boss never had to worry about me. In other words, they told me what to do, and I just did it, and they didn't hear from me

until I presented them with the story. You know, I would figure out things on my own. And if you're a boss, if you're a coach, you want guys like that around you. You want guys you can count on. Now, I think part of the, this may be a stretch, but part of the pushback here in Washington is because of Bruce and the Tampa connection.

Right. It seemed like Bruce Allen, you know, went to the Tampa well very often during his time running this franchise. And those results were not positive, and I think people got tired of saying, oh, there's another Tampa guy, you know? And I think this is a carryover from that. I think it would be so much worse if we knew that he was trying to get all these people that used to work for him, and they didn't want to work for him.

You know, these people do like him. They respect him a lot. His former players in Carolina, when he got fired, the reaction from those players really, good players, Luke Kieckley, you know, and others, he definitely connects with players and there is a belief among those that have worked for him or with him in him. It would be much worse if like he was floundering and he was hiring people from, you know, every which end, and nobody from Carolina wanted to come here and play for him and work with him. I think that would be much worse. but I wanted to extend it to this one offshoot of this conversation.

I don't care about someone hiring people that he's familiar with, that he trusts, etc. I think it's probably more important in an organization like this one, considering the owner. But what's interesting about all of this and the draft that also reflected seasoned, experienced, low maintenance, high, you know, on the culture side, you know, continue. this, we're trying to change the culture here, that the most important person right now in the organization that isn't the owner or the head coach is the quarterback, and he's not a Carolina guy. He's not somebody who Ron's worked with before. And there are red flags about him being the right kind of culture person. And this is why, going into next season, Carson Wentz

is the most important figure right now in this organization. In a sport that demands high-level quarterbacking, and by the way, in many ways, a level of leadership and a level of certainly accountability and being coachable, he has put all of his eggs in 2022 into a basket where he has no previous familiarity with the person at all. and it's the most important position right now on the field if not in the organization. Well, like we've talked about, he was in a position of desperation.

He didn't have many options the way he saw it. Cam was available. Yeah, I know. I know. And RG3 is available. Oh, did you see what RG3 tweeted out about Ryan Tannihil? No. Ryan Tannahill the other day said, it's not my job to mentor Malik Willis.

You know, the Titans took Malik Willis in the third round. RG3 tweeted out, Ryan Tannahill not wanting to mentor Malik Willis is a recipe for disaster. He needs to check his ego at the door because leadership comes with the cost of ego. Is that amazing? It's so funny. That really is. Talk about a lack of self-awareness. It's amazing how lacking and self-aware to see is. Now, I think in Baltimore with Lamar Jackson, he really tried to assume that role.

But checking ego at the door, this, the guy that walked in to a meeting a few months after a playoff game and a surgery with a PowerPoint that said, these are the plays I am not running next year, to his head coach, to the offensive coordinator. and to the quarterbacks coach at the time. By the way, two of those three being very successful head coaches in the NFL right now. All right, a few more things to get to. On the show, by the way, at the very end of the show, Eddie C, for those of you who remember Eddie C coming on with me last year on the podcast to predict the derby, and I think he may have come back for the preakness, I forget.

Eddie C, who's a local favorite in town for many of my friend group. Lives down in Florida, spends much of his time at Saratoga, however, is going to jump on for you race fans and give you his exact a box for the derby and his pick to win it. I think Tommy has a pick for it as well. Have a couple of other things to get to next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Cigars and Curveball Action and Auction, Tommy, on Monday night. Can't wait for it. Yeah, we're expecting a good turnout at Cigars and Curveballs,

at Shelly's backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district. Monday night, May 9 from 6 to 8 p.m. It's a fundraiser for the Grays who provide equipment and uniforms, among other things, to underprivileged kids to play baseball in the district. It's a lot of fun. You can buy tickets. You go to D.C.Graise.com. You can buy tickets there.

it's $100 donation, and plus we have an auction, and I posted the other day, one of the items included in the auction, is an autographed jersey of number 66, Joe Jacoby. Yeah. Super Bowl champion, and as you wrote in your tweet, Future Hall of Famer, please. Future Hall of Famer. And listen, people, he's going in the Hall of Fame. That's going to happen. and when they go in the Hall of Fame, that stuff becomes a lot more valuable.

They'll also be able to bid on hanging out with us during a podcast recording in these palatial studios here in Bethesda. So let's see what that item goes for. I may have to bid on that myself because there may not be any action, but we'll see how it goes. But Tommy's events always awesome. It's an easy place, by the way, for those of you who don't spend a lot of time downtown. Shelly's is at 13th and F. There's plenty of parking. Great area.

Great spot. We're going to have a great time Monday night. I'm looking forward to it. I'll be there. A lot of people will be there that you'll recognize names, if not faces, for sure. Listen, the next day when you read the TMZ story about it, You'll wish you had been there. I hope the TMZ story is about something that happens in Shelley's backroom versus outside of it.

That can be worse. All right. I know that you wrote a column, which we'll get to here in a moment, but I did just want to weigh in real quickly on this Phil Mickelson story, that Mickelson had more than $40 million in gambling losses from 2010 to $20. This is an excerpt from the Alan Shipnuck biography on Phil. You know, the previous excerpts from this book that's coming out have gotten them in trouble as it relates to the new tour over in Saudi Arabia, which, by the way, Sergio Garcia yesterday basically said, I can't wait to get off this tour and to the new one. Also, real quickly, Denny McCarthy, he has yet to go out for his second round in the rain today, but five under yesterday.

and he was on the radio show. We had him on the radio show yesterday morning before his round. A lot of people in town rooting for Denny to play well. But $40 million in gambling losses. You know, Billy Walters, you know, the well-known, long-time, you know, true sharp of all sharps in terms of legendary sports gamblers. He was involved in that insider trading case, which included Mickelson, and Billy Walters is in jail. Billy Walters is promised when he gets released.

He's writing a book. God knows what he's going to say about Mickelson. But $40 million in gambling losses, even for a guy like Phil Mickelson, is a shitload of money. Don't try to say, well, he's worth $400 million. So it's 10% of his overall net worth. I don't know exactly what his net worth is. When you lose 40,000, by the way, it's not the amount that you lose that indicates whether or not you have a problem.

For some people, losing $40 or $400 means you've got a gambling problem. For him, this is a clear indication of a problem. It was done in every which way. I mean, we've all heard stories about Mickelson's legendary gambling, you know, prowess and how, you know, it was in casinos, it was sports betting, it was, you know, betting on the golf course as well. You know, there's the story about the golf club deal that he had to do to essentially pay off some of these debts. But, man, $40 million, Tommy. This is somebody that has a problem. Maybe he doesn't anymore. Maybe he's had that problem addressed.

But, you know, that must have been unbelievable. You know, he's contending at the highest levels of that sport all the while, you know, having to meet his guy behind 7-Eleven with a brown bag filled with like $3 million in cash, you know, at a time. It wasn't handled that way, I'm sure. But, God, that is unbelievable. I don't know that I've ever heard a story of somebody losing $40 million. Ever.

So that's beyond Sheean territory, huh? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Archleister stuff, you know, which you're going to probably hit me with a well-known athlete well-before Archleaster, whether it's the Paul Horning or the Alex Carrey's of the world that got suspended, you know. But Archleicester, who played at Ohio State, you know, I think I read at one point that maybe over the course of his gamper's. problem life, he may have lost like a million bucks in total, you know? And that's a lot for back in the 80s for sure. He's, I think he's still in jail right now for, I don't know what he, what he ended up being in jail for. Was it bad check rating? He was in jail a couple of times.

Yeah. He was in jail a couple of times. I interviewed his wife a long time ago. Oh, really? He was running a gambling, a gambling, like rehab center out in Vegas. But that was a long time ago. The Mickelson thing, though, like I think anybody that's ever had bad gambling, you know, stories of being, you know, in the hole with money that you really can't afford. He could afford it, but I guarantee you it wasn't very pleasant to be, you know, to be cutting those cashiers checks to the guy or real checks or real, you know, transfers

to casinos. I, um, I mean, it's certainly what we've told stories on here about bad gambling situations before. I'm not going to get into those, but, you know, it's somebody who, you know, continues to believe that he's going to be the one that's smart enough to get it all back and to, win and end up looking much smarter. Like he's super competitive. You know, those with gambling problems, typically super bright, super competitive.

And Mickelson fits that description to a T. And I guarantee you those books, those casinos, they were just drooling every single time he walked in, you know, to the casino to sit down and play cards, if that's what he was doing. or, you know, a big-time sports bet, I would bet that they were falling over themselves to get his action in these places. And I think a lot of it was probably lost on the golf course too, all the while him thinking he was the smartest guy in the room and that he would eventually get it all back.

It's insidious. It's a bad disease. It's a problem. But $40 million, man. Arch Leicester. after, I mean, just multiple arrests. He had been released from prison in June of 2021, and he's got Parkinson's disease and dementia.

Oh, my God. How old is he now? I don't know. He had between 15 and 17 concussions from when he played, he's 62. 62. Yeah. And he's not in good shape. All right. Tell me, tell everybody about your column about Larry Luchino.

Well, you know, now that the nationals are up for bid, you know, the learners have hired a company to explore the sale of the franchise. People are looking for possible bidders. And we've talked about Ted Leones and David Rubinstein and others. but I mean, Larry Lekino would be a natural for this. Larry Lekino is the guy who had division for Camden Yards in Baltimore. He was the guy who was determined that they were going to build a retro baseball-only ballpark that changed, you know, the entire game after it was built. When he was president of the Orioles, he went and did the same thing in San Diego with Petco Park And then he went to Boston, where he was one of the owners in Boston,

won three World Series titles after an 86-year drought, you know, the curse of a Bambino, so to speak, and reversed everything. Instead of building a new stadium because people wanted to tear down Fenway Park, he came up with a way to preserve Fenway Park and to still make it, you know, a functioning stadium in the 20th. 21st century. So he's going to be a Hall of Fame executive at some point in Cooperstown. He stepped down from the day-to-day's operation in 2015.

He's still on the board and runs the chairman of the Fenway Sports Group, their overall umbrella. But basically right now, he owns a AAA minor league team in Worcester, Massachusetts. that just moved from Paul Cuckett. And I called them up, and I said, you know, are you interested, would you be interested in Washington? And he didn't say he wouldn't be, but he said, I've got my handful, hands full now, with a new stadium we just opened here in Wooster. But I know, under the right circumstances, he would love to come back to Washington. This is where he got to start working for Edward Bennett-Williams.

And he was actually a vice president of the Redskins in the mid-70s. And he's a guy who's got a Super Bowl ring, World Series ring, and an NCAA championship basketball ring. But he played with Bill Bradley on Princeton's NCAA championship team. I did not know that. Wow. Yes. So this guy is a remarkable sports background. I'm a brilliant visionary guy.

He's 76, but Ted, let's face it, Ted Leonez. Ted Lerner was older than that when he wound up buying the nationals, and it would be great news for national fans if Larry Lekino was somehow involved with the team. I don't think he's got wherewithal to be the sole buyer, but if you're looking to bid on this team and you're an outsider, not involved in the game, you want to bring Larry Lekino into your group, but he's the ultimate insider. What was his...

So that's what the column is. Do you know what his ownership interest when Edward Bennett Williams and then, you know, obviously Jack Kent Cook, what his interest was in the Redskins during that period of time? I mean, he was, wasn't he, he was a Williams and Connolly lawyer, right? Which is how he got involved with the Orioles and the Redskins through Edward. Edward Bennett Williams. Yes. Well, what was his, do you have any idea what his actual ownership interest in the Redskins was?

Obviously, it was a minority state. I don't think Larry had it. Larry did not have any ownership. I think he did. I'm not sure he did. Okay. He was just a vice president. And the Orioles, he would develop a piece of the ownership of the Orioles.

And then when they got sold in bankruptcy auction, to Peter Angelo's. Larry actually with partners with Bill DeWitt who wound up buying the Cardinals, and they lost out to Angelo's in the bidding for that. But Larry is, here's the story I always tell about Larry. When he became president and owner of the Red Sox, the Red Sox were a legendary franchise in New England, but they had an arrogant attitude about themselves where they said,

we're the Red Sock, you're lucky to do business with us. Boy, that sounds familiar. Right. You know, and so when Larry came in, he gave a speech to all their employees. He said, for years, you've been into no business in this place. Starting today, we're going to be in the yes business. Meaning we're going to say yes.

Everybody who wants us to come out to talk to us, to do business with them, we're going to start saying yes. And basically he took the Red Sox, which was already a valued brand, and expanded it to the giant it is in New England now. He just has, when it comes to marketing and promotion, I mean, you know, compared to the learners who have a lack of either, then don't know how to do either, he would be a breath of fresh air for this. He'd be a really interesting owner prospect for the football team.

But he doesn't have that kind of money himself, does he? No. He just would be part of a group. Right, which was my point, that if you're a group interested in the nationals, the learners, what put the learners over when everyone was bidding for the team. No, no, that was Stan Kasten. Oh, Stan Kasten, yeah, of course. Loved him.

Caston had been a separate bidder for the team, but he knew, I mean, everyone knew the idea was that somebody was going to bring Stan in, and the one that brought Stan in would be the winner, and the learners were the ones that did that. I mean, no Stan Caston. The learners do not wind up owning this baseball team. I'll tell you what, Stan Castan was a say-yes person. Yes.

He said yes to everything. I loved him. And Likino is the same way in terms of being the insider that if you're a baseball outsider trying to buy into the club, this is the guy who will get you in. Yeah. Okay. I think the Likino story is really an interesting one.

I do have one question to ask you to end the podcast with you today, and then we'll get to Eddie C's Kentucky Derby. picks. Is it Worcester or is it Worcester? I don't know. Okay. Secondly, you worked up there. I know I did. I thought it was Worcester, but that's okay. But I was taken to task by, not taken to task, but Fauss on Twitter said, you keep mispronouncing Lancaster PA and I said, well, spell it phonetically for me.

And he spelled it L-A-N-C-S-T-E-R, Lank C-U-S-T-E-R. Lank Custer. You know Pennsylvania. He said the same thing to me, like, I need to correct you. I've never heard that. I'm with you. I called it Lancaster. That's what I always thought it was.

I've never heard. But it's Pennsylvania Dust Country. Right, it is. You know, I lived in the Poconos. There might have been another world. Yeah. Yeah. You weren't going horse and buggy to work every day.

Are we done, or did you have anything else? Oh, what's your derby pick? Okay. My derby picks, I've got a trifecta of epicenter, tie-by, and simplification. Simplification being the long shot at 20 to 1. That leaves the favorite Zandon out of the trifecta. So I may do something different this time.

I may do a super. So you've got the three... You've got the three horse epicenter who right now is, I think, the favorite, or close to the favorite. Actually, Zandon's the favorite. But epicenter's close. You've got, did you say Taiba, the 12th horse? Yeah. Okay, you know, that's a former Baffert horse.

You know that, right? Right. And then... By Mike Smith. I'm a jockey guy. And then who's your 20-to-1 simplification? Simplification. That's the 13 horse.

Okay, so you've got... Written by Jose Ortiz. Okay. All right. You're going to box that up? You're going to box that up? Yes, I am. That 312-13?

All right. Yes, I am. Remember, I cashed a $6 ticket a couple years ago. I remember. Made $1,700 bucks. I know you did. All right. Have a good weekend.

Eddie C, who really is into this stuff for you derby people, is up next. First Saturday in May means the Kentucky Derby. And last year we put Eddie C on the podcast predicting the derby. Eddie C is a friend of many in town. He is South Florida based now but hangs out a lot at Saratoga. He's a former golf professional. You can follow him on Twitter. It's me, Eddie C on Twitter.

The derby, I think, is sneaking up on a lot of us. You know, Tommy certainly is aware that it's going on tomorrow. This used to be, by the way, Eddie, a weekend for Vegas. Like it was a fight weekend. It was sometimes a Cinco de Mayo weekend. It was, you know, derby weekend. It was NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs. It was always a great weekend to be out in Vegas for it.

I'm curious as to Twitter. where you will spend your Kentucky Derby Saturday. Well, hey, Kevin, first off, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. It's always good to be heard in the DMV, old stomping grounds. But, you know, this year, I'm either going to go to Hiaiaia. I got some friends there to watch it at the racetrack there because that's the old grand dam of tracks.

But I'll probably end up going up to golf stream and watching it there. did have an opportunity that was offered tickets to go this year, but too much going on. Daughter graduated last weekend from the University of Florida, so what's going on there. Congratulations.

I have one graduating from Penn State this weekend. That's where I'm headed. And it's supposed to be 48 degrees in raining sideways for his graduation, which should be lovely. How many times have you been to the derby? Just one.

Just once. And worth it for a guy like you, of course, right? You know, like I'll put it this way. If I were 25 years old with a bunch of buddies, yeah, it's totally worth it. Just get general admission tickets and, you know, and have your fun like we used to have in the infield of Pimler. But yeah, I mean, whenever I go back, it was very worth it just because we had box seats and stuff like that. So, you know, I'm not a foo-foo snob guy, but it's definitely the way to go. The infield at the Preakness back in the day, that was quite the scene.

There were truly no laws, and if there were, most of them were broken. I went for like four straight years with a bunch of buddies, infield, mud pit, you know, just some of the most debauchous scenes you can imagine. And really the goal after like the first two years was to make sure that you didn't get or you steered clear of any of the big time brawls. Really, that was like the goal. Let's not get hit unexpectedly in the middle of some melee that has nothing to do with us. You were hoping to be able to walk out of their unscathed or at the worst, maybe a black eye. And you didn't.

covered in mud and hammered is one thing. A black, you know, blood gushing from the top of your eye is quite another. But anyway, all right. So what are the stories this year with the Derby? Obviously, there's the big story regarding Bob Bafford. Explain to everybody what the status of Bob Bafford is right now in horse racing. Well, you know, obviously Baffert historically can be considered the Bill Belichick of horse racing. you know, technically he's won seven Kentucky derbies, but they disqualified his horse last year

for an overage of a legal medication. And it's important to say legal medication because a lot of people report it incorrectly and say that, you know, that he's cheating and with illegal drugs. And that's not the case. So, but anyhow, he's won six derbies officially. He's won two triple crowns, both of them in the last five years. So it's pretty impressive his resume. But what's happened because of the last year with Medina Speer being disqualified because of the drug overage, he has been suspended for two years of running in the Kentucky Derby. So he will not be a listed trainer on any horse. And that said, he actually has two of his horses running in the race under. He has the owners transferred him to a different owner, and they're both big chances to win.

But he's been suspended by Kentucky can't race there for two years, so he won't be in the Derby this year or next year. He won't be Pimlico, and it's called the First Group, which is run by the Strontic family that owns Pimlico. They have suspended him. He will not be – cannot race a horse there. And also, Belmont for the Belmont Stakes, which is run by the New York Race Association known as Naira, they have banned him from running this year as well.

So pretty big ramifications when you take the best trainer in the game out of it, and he had to transfer his horses to other trainers. So the derby's not allowing, won't permit him to, won't permit any Baffert-trained horses to run in the next two derbies. but what does that mean with respect to horses he's trained? They can't run or they get transferred to somebody else. Explain that. They have to be transferred to another trainer that's not affiliated with him.

So his assistant trainer, which a lot of times when a trainer gets suspended for a week or two or what have you, they transfer the horses into the name of their assistant trainer. He can't even do that. It has to be transferred to. a independent trainer that runs his own barn and is not affiliated with Bafford. Now, that said, it's interesting that the two that are running on Saturday, he transferred to an old assistant trainer that worked with him, you know, like five, ten years ago. I want to say closer to ten years ago.

So he transferred him to somebody that he knows and respects. But, you know, it's... So who are the horses that are, for all intents, and purposes Bafford horses, but are being trained by another barn, even though this person that is training these two horses used to work for Baffert. Right? Did I get that right? Yes. So one of them is the six horse called Messier, named after Messier, the hockey player. Okay. And he is currently 8 to 1.

He's one of the probably, I say he's one of the top five, six horses in the field. And the other one is called Taba, which is Taba is currently, I believe, 12 to 1. And that's an interesting horse because it's only run two races in its life in the past couple of months. It's won both of them incredibly impressively. They paid $1.7 million for this horse. And he's 12 to 1, but I'm going to tell you right now, he's going to go off at 5 to 1, maybe 4 to 1. That's how impressive he's been.

So two of, so before we, I know you wanted to mention a little bit about the Kentucky Oaks, which is run later on this evening, late afternoon this evening. No, 5, yes. Yeah. Correct. But I just want to make sure I'm clear before we come back to the Derby. Baffert's got two horses in this race that have a chance. Yes, and there's a lot of people that I know of that are betting those two horses and only those two horses because they're Bafford horses, and he's won it seven times slash six officially.

Okay. All right, we'll come back to the Derby. But later on today is the running of the Kentucky Oaks. and I know that you have some strong thoughts on this race for anybody that's going to be wagering on this stuff later today and certainly almost everybody ends up putting some sort of wager even if it's at a party on the derby. But tell me about the Kentucky Oaks.

Well, you know, the Kentucky Oaks actually has an incredibly strong field. I want to say that there is 14 horses that are listed to run. The curveball that's going to probably happen is it's going to be raining all day, so we're going to get a muddy track. But there's two horses in the, there's four horses that really stand out from their performances prior to this. You've got a horse called Kathleen, that is four for four has not lost and has dominated pretty much in every race.

You've got another horse, Echo Zulu, who's five for five. And many say is a superstar. and many say that it would have been their pick in the Kentucky Derby had she have qualified for it, but she had a few problems and has only raced once this year. And then you have another horse called Nest that's four-for-five lifetime and is the morning line favorite. And then the last horse is Secret Oath that has four wins and finished third running against the boys in the Arkansas Derby. and she got a brutal trip, otherwise she may have had a chance to win. So you've got four really special horses in there.

But real quick, just to go through it, the way the race shape is, Echo Zulu is a frontrunner, and there's another horse in the race that's definitely going to go to the front. I've spoken to the connections, and that's what they're doing. And the horse is the six horse called Uguiri, I believe it's pronounced, So they may get caught up in the speed battles. And if they do, I really love the one-horse secret oath. Again, she proved grand third in a competitive race against the boys. She's won from big races.

She has the look of being a superstar. So I'm betting the one-horse secret oath. And I'm going to key it in a trifecta over the three hidden connection, the four horse, which is nest, the five goddess of fire, the eight, Ventee Valentine, and then I'm going to use Kathleen O, who is pretty special in their own right. But I'm trying to do like a little value bet to where people can get some, you're going to get 20 to 30 to one odds on a couple of those horses. All right, let's get to the Derby on Saturday.

How many horses are running? 20. Oh, my God. What's the record number of horses that have run in the derby? Do you know? Well, they limited it to 20, I forget how many years ago. I think the most they've ever had is I want to say 24. Okay.

But what they did last year, which makes it a bit more fair for all the 20 that run, is they used to have two gates. And then if you were in the one hole or the two hole, you know, or the one post or the two posts, It was a huge disadvantage because you literally had to break out to the right not to hit the rail. Now they have 120-position gate, which gets moved off the rails, so it's a lot fair. Okay, but they're still, they're bunched up, though, aren't they? Oh, it's bumper cars when they first break out of the gate.

All right. Tell me about this race. You've already told me about the two former Baffert horses. Messier named after Mark Messier and Taiba, or Taiba, or however it's pronounced. So who is everybody pointing to as the favorite? Is there an obvious favorite? Is there a triple crown horse that we're going to see the first leg of tomorrow? Well, I'll say this.

If Teba can win, yeah, that's your superstar. That's your triple crown candidate. but again, it's only run two races. And out in California, in small fields, she, she raced against a six-horse field and a seven-horsefield. Now he's coming into a 20-horse field. It's totally different. And only having two races of experience, you know, that's like taking a quarterback, starting two races and throwing them in the, I mean,

playing two games and throwing in the Super Bowl. You know, I mean, stuff happens. So from the top contenders, the way the race shape is going to probably go is you're going to have three or four horses battling for the lead, which I don't think any of them are going to have a chance to win. There's this horse called Summers Tomorrow is definitely going to the front, and then you might have Pioneer of Medina, Zosos, and Classic Causeway going to the front. and setting a pretty quick pace. The winners, I think, the horses who I think can win are going to be right, you know, in the group behind them, rating behind the speed. And without getting too deep into it, because I don't want to lose the listeners here,

I am, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take three horses and box them in an exactor. And I'm going to take the three-horse epicenter, the eight-horse charges, and then I'm going to take the 10 horse called Zandon. The only thing I don't like about Zandon, and Zandong is a morning line favorite, I believe, at 3 to 1. Yeah, right now, 3 to 1, yep. Right.

But the thing about Zandon is he's a closer, which means he's going to have to weave in and out of traffic, avoid bumping horses or getting shut off, but I think that horse is so special. I really do. I think that's one of the two or three special horses in this group. And that's why I'm picking is my winner. I'm picking Zandon the 10 horse.

And, you know, I'm using epicenter. I'm using the 6th Messier and I'm using charge it. I'm keying off of those four horses, but I'm keying Zandon on top of them too. I just think he's going to come flying late and is going to catch them all because I think out of the 20 horses, there's like, I mean, there literally is like 8 to 10 that could win this, but I think there's also, you know, five to eight that have no chance and they're going to be floundering late and it's just going to

open up some lanes for Zandon to come flying home late and win. All right, let me just interject real quickly before I summarize Eddie's Derby picks in the exact a box that he just described. Let me remind everybody that if you don't have a place to bet the derby tomorrow, go to my bookie. Go to my bookie.orgie.orgie.com. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. and they'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to a thousand bucks. They've got, in addition to a sports book and an online casino, they've got an online race book as well, and they'll have all of the action, not only for the Kentucky Oaks later on today, but the Kentucky Derbyt, derby tomorrow. So go to mybooky.orgie.orgie.com, use my promo code Kevin D.C.,

and they'll take good care of you. But just to recap, Eddie, you've got the three-horse epicenter, you've got the eight-horse charge it, and you've got the 10-horse Zand-on in an exact box. But you like Zand-on to actually win the race, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. Now, I'm using charge it. And charge it's a really interesting horse for people that are looking for a price. He's 20 to 1 morning line right now. He's a very young horse. He's raced three times. And his last race, he came second in the Florida Derby. And only because, and make sure I explain it, he ran green coming down the lane towards the finish line, which means he kept on weaving in and out because he's a young horse.

You know, he's still not sure how to run, but he came second. And if he had stayed in the straight line, I think he probably wins the race. So for a price horse, that's who you're looking for. There you go. Charge it right around 20 to 1. And then your other two horses are 3 to 1 and roughly 3.5 to 4 to 1, somewhere there, 7 to 2 to 4 to 1, somewhere in that range. Eddie, great job. Really appreciate it.

Eddie C on Twitter. Enjoy the Derby. We'll talk soon. Kevin, appreciate it. Congratulations to your son. Enjoy Happy Valley. And to your daughter as well. All right. Take care. All right, that's it for the day. A reminder if you missed Cooley breaking down Sam Howl and Jehan Dodson on yesterday's podcast, go listen to that over the weekend. Have a great weekend. I'll be back on Monday.