The Kevin Sheehan Show - #5 is #5

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Kevin opened the show answering an email from a distraught Cowboys fan before getting to ESPN's "Top 10 QB Rankings" based on surveys of 70+ NFL coaches, front office execs, and scouts. Al Galdi jumped on to talk about the Nats' first round/first overall pick in the MLB Draft last night. He also took a guess on when Terry McLaurin will sign a contract extension. Kevin finished up with CBSSports.com's "NFL Head Coach Rankings" and had thoughts on whether Dan Quinn's spot in the rankings was fair.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. One guest with me on the show today, Al Galdi will jump on in the next segment to talk Nats' draft, specifically what they did at number one overall last night, which I think was a surprise to many of you. We'll talk some football with Galdi as well.

The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Windon Nation, 86699. or Windonation.com if you need new windows. All I ask is give them a shot to come out and give you a free in-home estimate. This from Michael T to open up the show, Michael T writes Kevin. I'm a lifelong Cowboys fan living in Montgomery County for the last 15 years. I've never called or written, but I've been a listener of both radio and podcast since the day I arrived. It was much more entertaining for me when the Redskins were a lot. laughing stock. He also, by the way, wrote in parentheses after Redskins. Yes, I said Redskins,

they'll always be the Redskins to me, and I would say to most cowboy fans as well. But he writes, it was much more entertaining for me when the Redskins were a laughing stock. I laughed out loud on Mondays, especially when you referred to losses as, quote, organizational losses, closed quote. Ah, the good old days. I miss them so much. Strangely, though, I'm happy for you and all Redskin fans. The pain you all endured shouldn't be wished on the worst of enemies. Now my team is a laughing stock, and that leads me to my question.

When will I get to the I don't care as much stage? How long does it take being the worst franchise in the NFL before fans like me move on? Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Michael, for writing that. But wow, you are way too dramatic about your team's situation. I mean, first of all, you're not the worst franchise in the NFL, not even close. I mean, Cleveland, Raiders, Panthers, there are three or four organizations that are in much worse shape than Dallas. I have not thought at any point, honestly, of the Cowboys being the worst franchise in the NFL.

For many years, Washington was the worst franchise in the NFL. But you're just way too hyperbolic about your situation. Your team just recently won 36 games in three seasons. Not in the 1990s or the 1970s, but 2021, 2022, and 20, 23. The Cowboys were 12 and 5, 12 and 5, and 12 and 5. That's 36 and 15 in three very recent seasons. Are you kidding me, Michael T? You have no idea how far away you are from the point where you start to care a little less. Your team's been to the playoffs six out of the last 11 seasons. All right? You have been to the post-season. in the last 11 years six times more than half of those seasons.

We've been to the playoffs six times over the last 25 seasons. In the last 22 years, your team has finished dead last in the division, the NFC East, just one time. One, my team dead last 11 times in the last 22 seasons. And the other thing is, your team, no matter how, you know, we'll get to the playoff stuff, you guys just don't have terrible seasons. Just once in the last 22 seasons has Dallas won less than six games. That was 2015.

Romo got hurt. Dak wasn't there yet. And the Cowboys went four and 12. We've had eight seasons of less than six wins during that same span. where you've had just one. We've had consistent, terrible seasons over and over again. You've really had one. And I would say, by the way, as it relates to your team right now,

you still have a team that if it stays healthy, that's a big if, but if you stay healthy, you've got enough talent to win more games than you'll lose and make a run at the postseason. We'll see about Brian Schottenheimer. but your team has hope this year, you know, especially if DAC can play a whole season. There were so many seasons where there was no hope for us. I think with all that said, you know,

I do think that we, the Cowboys and the Redskins, the Cowboys and Skins, have shared some of the same frustrations over a long period of time. There are similarities going back to the early and mid-90s for both franchises. For us, you know, it ended last year, but ownership for both franchises has been, for us, had been a roadblock to championship level success. I mean, our franchise didn't even sniff any level of success under Snyder. But for as many games as Dallas has won since the last time it went to the NFC championship game, it just doesn't win in the postseason since 95. Since 95, which was the Barry Switzer Super Bowl with Jimmy's players, the Cowboys are 5 and 13 in playoff games with zero trips to the NFC title game.

That is now the longest drought in the conference between championship game appearances. It was us until last year. Now it's Dallas. But look, Michael T, your team's been relevant in many regular. seasons since that Barry Switzer Super Bowl in 95. Over that period, going back to the time between our last NFC championship and last year, so 91, we were largely irrelevant as an NFL franchise until last year. We had zero hope of being sustained good with Snyder. Even with Jerry, you guys, you know, have won a lot of games. I mean, three straight

12 win seasons in a row. We went 32 years without winning 11 games. During that span, you guys have had 11 seasons of 11 or more wins. Yeah. How long does it take before you feel no hope or you feel like you're losing interest? Much longer, much longer is the answer. I get the Jerry concerns. I do.

But you and your fan base, cowboy fans have always been pretty damn. optimistic. You know, I would say borderline delusional. And you know what? I think our fan base for a long period of time was a bit overly optimistic and maybe even a little delusional as we were getting fooled by Dan during those early years. But the Cowboy fan base is different because it's so big, it's so national, it's so international. You know, Jerry's going to be able to fool you guys for at least as long as Dan fooled us. And that was, I don't know, I would say Dan fooled us legitimately for a few years. And then it took many more to believe what we knew to be true and actually act on it.

You know, I would say, you know, after Spurrier and then definitely after Zorn, we knew that it would never happen. and it was probably after Zorn where people started to act on it, meaning not going to games, not watching the games as much, not spending as much money, etc. But even if Brian Schottenheimer turns out to be the wrong guy, and I wouldn't be shocked if he is, and let's just say Dak Prescott's best years are behind him, you guys are going to keep coming back,

believing that the next year will be the year. I mean, we got fooled for a long period of time. You guys, I think, are even more gullible as a fan base. So leave it at that. All right, let me get to something that I think has been a pretty big conversation among NFL fans today and certainly NFL pundits. And what I'm referring to is the ESPN surveying of coaches, execs and scouts in the NFL to come up with a top 10 quarterback list. Now, this is something ESPN's been doing for six years now. They do it for 11 different position groups, and they've already done it for running backs, defensive tackles, edge rushers, safeties, tight ends, interior offensive linemen,

and offensive tackles. Today was the quarterback list. top 10 quarterbacks based on the opinions of NFL people, coaches, scouts, front office execs. By the way, on the lists that have come out so far, the rankings that have come out so far, only Laramie Tunsell has made the top 10 in any of the previously released top 10 rankings of the various positions. He was number seven on the offensive tackle list. I don't think we mention that because it came out the tackles did over the weekend. Still to come, offball linebackers, wide receivers, and cornerbacks starting tomorrow. But quarterbacks came out today.

And the list was, you know, very hotly debated in two different areas. One was Lamar Jackson's ranking. And secondly, was Jaden Daniels. ranking. Now, a couple of things about the ESPN top 10 quarterback list for this year. They wrote several themes emerged from this year's quarterback polling, none more important than this. Tier 1 is historically good. The top four quarterbacks left the rest of the field in the dust during this year's top 10 voting. All four are squarely in their primes between 28 and 29 years old. They have five MVP's among them, and although three of these quarterbacks are still chasing Patrick Mahomes's Super Bowl achievements, they appear to be closing the gap by the year. This is a golden era for young quarterbacks that should be appreciated.

They also write, the group is more exclusive this time around. And most years, at least 16 quarterbacks attract significant votes. No longer. Just 12 players had traction this time around the top 10 plus two honorable mentions. That means that four quarterbacks on contracts of 50 million or more are not under serious consideration for the top 10. This is interesting because when I first looked at the list and I didn't read the setup for the list, the thing that struck me first was, man, the quarterback position in the list, the NFL isn't as deep as it was a few years back. I think we've talked about that in recent years.

The retirements of the Brady's and the Mannings and the Rivers and the Rathlisburgers, etc. The Drew Brees. I mean, there was a time not that long ago where it was just Hall of Famers. And then you would get to, all right, well, who comes in, you know, borderline top 10 now, and I'll just throw this out. Baker Mayfield is the number 10 quarterback in the NFL. I actually think Baker has played really well. I mean, he played exceptionally well last year and probably deserves consideration for the top 10, but it just speaks to the fact that the position just isn't as deep. Or we don't know it's that deep yet because so many quarterbacks are young. Remember, in the 2024 draft, the Jaden Daniels draft, we'd six quarterbacks go in the top

12, all six of which will be starting at quarterback in this upcoming season. There's only one that we know anything for sure about. And yeah, he's very high in the rankings. Also in the setup to this list, ESPN writes, four of the 12 quarterbacks are from the 2020 draft class, which is turning out to be one of the very best of the 2000s. That 2020 draft class, of course, we remember it at the very top, including Chase Young. But Joe Burrow was one, and then it was Young in Okuda, 2, 3. Not great.

Then it was Andrew Thomas, Tua, Herbert, Derek Brown. All right? I mean, Derek Brown's turned into one hell of a player in Carolina. I think he just made his first Pro Bowl, or maybe it was the year before. Oh, that's right. He got hurt last year. Derek Brown got hurt last year, but he was a hell of a player the year before. And he'll probably be great again. I'm not going to go through the whole draft, but it includes, you know, guys like Tristan Wirthes who just got hurt. It includes Justin Jefferson, Brandon Ayuk, Patrick Queen. Yeah. It also includes Javon Kinlaw. Let's not forget that. Let's hope he ends up. being a very positive of that draft class. So what else did ESPN say in their setup to this? It's the first year without Aaron Rogers in the top 10.

Matt Stafford is the only top 10 quarterback above the age of 30. Yeah. So let me get to it. Let me get to the list. number one overall Patrick Mahomes number two overall Josh Allen number three overall Joe Burrow and number four overall Lamar Jackson

and as ESPN wrote in the setup this is a tier one and the top four quarterbacks in terms of the surveying left the rest of the field in the dust during the voting so that means that number five Jaden Daniels yes Jaden's at number five didn't get any votes for very few, if any, for the top four. But he probably absolutely dominated number five and certainly dominated the five through ten voting of the rest of the

quarterbacks, although it does say that he barely beat out Stafford, who was six. So let me just start with the top four here. I do think as we look at the NFL right now that Mahomes, Alan, Burrow and Jackson are a tier one. I think Jaden is debatably in that tier one, and I don't think it's going to take much longer for Jaden to be considered universally as one of those guys. But after one year, it's tough to put him in that group. I mean, I think that's what's coming, but after one season, I'm not going to put him in that group yet. Now, would I trade spots if I were a couple of these teams with Washington and their quarterback, I would. I think I would do it if I were Cincinnati, and I think I would do it if I were Baltimore, in part because Burrow and Jackson have had issues

with injuries. But this ranking caused a lot of controversy. I don't think you can really debate Patrick Mahomes at one. I understand that the gap is narrowing between he and Alan and maybe he and Jackson and probably not Burrow for most of you, but I would say Burrow. He statistically hasn't been as dominant, you know, and last year, you know, he had a season in which he didn't throw for 4,000 yards. He threw for 26 touchdowns 11 picks. But let's face it, offensive line in major decline, wide receiver group last year, completely cleaned out by injury. Kelsey is getting older. I mean, they won 15 games and got to the Super Bowl.

Why? Number 15, Patrick Mahomes. I still think I would take him over anybody else in the league. I think he does it when they need him to do it. And he does what it takes to win. And if it's greatness start to finish, that's what he does. And when he does it at the highest levels, it's the highest level in the league. I don't have a problem with Josh Allen being number two.

I think those two actually there's a little bit of separation between Mahomes and Allen and then Burrow at 3 and Jackson at 4. I do. That's my view. I would take Josh Allen and Mahomes over Burrow and Jackson. Number three and number four is where there was a ton of debate. A lot of people don't like the Joe Burrow. you know, again, this is the opinion of many coaches, scouts, and NFL front office execs.

Okay, this is not, you know, some, this isn't Pete Priscoe's opinion or, you know, Jeremy Fowler's opinion, or Bill Barnwell's rankings. This is 70 plus coaches, scouts, and front office execs in the NFL. And they wrote about Joe Burrow. prolific is the best way to describe Burrough's 2024 campaign leading the NFL with 4,918 yards and 43 touchdowns on his way to his second comeback player of the year award. Burrow makes a compelling case as the game's most accurate quarterback, his 70.6% completion rate against the backdrop of a league high 652 attempts in 2024 is impressive. His 11% off target rate is also the lowest among starting quarterbacks. One AFC scout said, quote, If we're talking about playing the quarterback position,

nobody is playing it better than him. Footwork, ball placement, the mental game at the line of scrimmage, feel for the pocket, eye level, finding creases to step up and throw. He's the best right now, and he's more mobile than he gets credit for. Burrow became the first player in NFL history last year with 250 passing yards and three passing touchdowns in eight straight games. And he had a lot to overcome. Worst defense, certainly one of the worst defenses in the league, the 30th ranked rush offense in the league. But he did have Chase and Higgins.

And one AFC executive said, I get the guy has two elite wideouts, but their run game was average. and the offensive line wasn't very good. On top of all of that, their defense was porous, and he kept him in every single game for the most part. I thought it may have been his best year, but it didn't get the same pub because of the other high-profile teams. I agree with that, man. Joe Burrow was sensational last year.

Sensational. If they win one or two more games, and they had so many super close losses, they were nine and eight, and there was only one game, only one in which they got blown out and had no chance, and that was against Philadelphia at home in October. Every other loss was a winnable game. They lost by six, one, five, three in overtime, one, seven, six. Every game was winnable that they lost except for the Philadelphia game. Of course, we remember the Monday night game.

The week before that, they beat the, they lost the Chiefs 26, 25. In the Netflix show, quarterback, which I might get to on this show, but probably save it for Tommy tomorrow. Steve Spagnulu walks off the field and tells Joe Burrow, other than our guy, you are the absolute best. That's Spags saying Burrow is second best to his guy, his guy, of course, being Patrick Mahomes. Joe Burrow, if they had won two more games last year, probably is the MVP. That's all it would have taken. Another two wins. think he would have been the MVP. I think he may have been the best quarterback in the league last year, but it doesn't always go that way in terms of the voting. I mean, Allen's team won more games.

Jackson's team won many more games, and they were Super Bowl contenders. And so the controversy on this list comes that Lamar was ranked below Joe Burrow. And many people think below Josh Allen is a slight to Jackson. What's written about Jackson, he's the most breathtaking player in the game. He might be the most feared too. I would say in terms of most feared players with the ball in their hands, Jackson and still Tariq Hill, still, maybe Barclay, maybe Daniels, maybe Alan. Look, I love the way this list lays out. It's exactly the way I would lay it out, one through four. And I love Lamar Jackson. I'm a big fan. I've rooted so hard for the Ravens in the playoffs the last few years. I want him to get over that hump. But he hasn't. And last year, you can blame the drop

on the two-point conversion. You can blame other things. But he had two crucial turnovers. The fact of the matter is, Lamar Jackson has not played well in the Ravens' biggest games, those games being postseason games. At times, he's been really bad. Now, I don't think he was really bad against Buffalo last year. I don't think he was really bad against Kansas City. He wasn't good in the title game the year before that. Meantime, Burroughs been to a Super Bowl, and Josh Allen has been lights out in the postseason. All three of those quarterbacks are chasing Mahomes' titles, and they all need to get over the hump to a certain degree. The big difference between the three and why I would have Burrow and Allen ahead of Jackson, even though I'm a big Jackson fan, is Jackson's not

performed anywhere near the level of Allen or Burrow in the postseason. Now, Joe Burroughs only been to the postseason twice because of injuries. He just won his second comeback player of the year award. Number five on this list, Jaden Daniels. And this is exactly where I had them when we talked about, you know, a few weeks ago, you know, where we would have Jaden Daniels on the list. I know a lot of you agreed, and a lot of you said it's way too early. No way he can't be that high. This was when somebody put out a list, I think it was Fox Sports, and he wasn't even in the top 10, and I'm like, that's a joke.

He's easily top 10. I think he's closer to 5 than 10, and I would put him at 5. And so did NFL coaches, scouts, and front office executives. All right, here's what was written about Jaden Daniels and his number 5 over. ranking on this quarterback list. Daniel's phenomenal rookie season demanded an appearance somewhere in the top 10, that he pushed his way into the top five, narrowly outd distancing Stafford in the voting, shows voters have no problem validating his hype. Last season, Daniels posted the fourth highest QBR in the NFL, the best mark for a rookie since Dak Prescott, but he was even better on

third and fourth downs recording a league leading 95.3 QBR. QBR on those downs. Here's a quote from an NFL coordinator who prepared for Daniels last year, I would assume, a defensive coordinator. Quote, single-handedly took one of the worst franchises to the NFC title game as a rookie with a bad defense, one legitimate wide receiver, a dinosaur at tight end, referring to, of course, Zach Ertz, and an average at best O-line. The kid can read coverages, throw with accuracy, and touch to all levels of the field,

just as dangerous as Lamar and Josh Allen with his legs, and has a clutch factor to him because his team already believes that if he has the ball with a chance to win, he's going to find a way. If he repeats anything close to his rookie year, he's no lower than number three on this list next year. Sometimes they write the year one can be overhyped and it can be tough to replicate in year two. C.J. Stroud was number seven on last year's list. He is not in the top 10 on this year's list, although he was among the two quarterbacks that were listed as honorable mention. Some around the league are at least asking the question of whether Daniels' play will taper off a bit as defenses adjust to both him.

and Washington's offense, but the consensus is Daniels has too much going for him. Here's one other quote from an NFC coordinator, quote. One 12 games with a mediocre at best defense in just a decent offensive roster around him. System he plays in requires him to play off schedule and make plays with his feet on a regular basis for success. And he is still solid in the pocket, close quote. Yeah, I think that first quote where that defensive coordinator says, the kid can read coverages,

throw with accuracy, and touch to all levels of the field, and just as dangerous as Lamar and Josh, and then talks about the clutch factor. That's it. I mean, where is the weakness? He can throw it to all levels of the field with accuracy, with touch. He's just as dangerous as Lamar or Josh with his legs, and he's just as clutch.

let's just say it's Patrick Mahomes. Heady stuff, for sure, and quite the ranking. This is, you know, what the NFL thinks of Jaden Daniels. This isn't just the off-season list where people are giving their opinion who don't participate in the NFL. Number six was Matt Stafford. Number seven was Justin Herbert. Number eight was Jared Gough.

Number nine was Jalen Hertz. and number 10 was Baker Mayfield. C.J. Stroud and Jordan Love were the only two quarterbacks listed as honorable mention, and then they listed Kyler Murray, Brock Purdy, Dak Prescott, Aaron Rogers, two atung of Iloa and Bo Nix as others receiving votes. But as the prep for this ranking said, it's unusual that they only ended up with two honorable mentions, meaning that only 12 quarterbacks got meaningful consideration. And we know that Jaden was far away from number four and very close to number six.

But we also know if he has a year like he had his rookie year in 2025, it's going to be tough for him to be any lower than five next year and probably will end up being higher. I love this list, man. I was thinking about this. The top six is probably exactly the way I would have it. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Jaden, Stafford. I think Herbert would be my number seven. Herbert's issue is certainly in clutch situations, but the talent is unmistakable.

Gough at eight, Hertz at nine, Mayfield at 10, and then Stroud and Love, I'm a big Jordan Love and a big CJ Stroud guy. I think both of those guys have huge upsides. I really do. I love the way Baker plays. And I'm a big Jalen Hertz fan because I think he does it when it matters the most. Gough is an elite system quarterback.

I don't have a problem with the rest of the list. I mean, again, like one of the first things I thought of was, man, we don't have the depth at the quarterback position, or at least. you know, the name depth, you know, the recognizable depth that we used to have. Jadenet 5. Hard to really disagree with. I know a lot of people around the league probably are like, wow, one season and he's five, you know, you had to witness that one season up close, every play, every game, every

all of the context and nuance around every game. I think that's where he is entering next season with only higher to climb. He could do what C.J. Stroud did last year if the team around him in very good. I mean, C.J. Stroud struggled with a bad offensive line, but I think Jaden is a cut. We're two cuts above Stroud, and Stroud's good. All right, Al Galdi on the Nats picking Eli W. Willits with the overall first pick in the draft last night.

That seemed to be a surprise to many. We'll get to his thoughts on that after these words from a few of our sponsors. It can be hard for men to deal with hair loss, even though it's common. Luckily, I'm here to provide you with a solution, so you don't even have to talk about it. Through Hymns, you can restore your hair by accessing their personalized hair loss solutions. Hymns provide you with convenient and quality access. to a range of hair loss treatments that work all from the comfort of your couch. Hymns makes treating hair loss simple with doctor-trusted options and clinically proven ingredients.

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Great customer service, great product, and a great deal. Right now, 50% off on all Windows styles with no interest charged, until the year 2030. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to windonation.com. Mention my name and they'll schedule a fast, free-in-home estimate. Joining me right now is my good friend Al-Galdi from the Al-Galdi podcast. Of course, he also does the Nats chat podcast with Mark Zuckerman. They've been busy the last 24 hours.

And we'll talk a little bit of football at the end of this, but I wanted to have Al on to talk about the Nats draft last night, specifically number one overall. Al is as good as anybody in town when it comes to baseball and the Nats and the Orioles. So I know that the selection of Eli Willits was a surprise to many. Was it a surprise to you? And what did you make overall of the pick? Yeah, it definitely was surprising.

most of the mock had the Nats taking one or two guys Ethan Holiday the high school shortstop out of Oklahoma or Kate Anderson, the starting pitcher out of LSU. There was a little bit of Eli Willett's buzz

as we got closer to Sunday evening, but like still most of the people who like study this and know this you know, like the back of their hand, they had it as like, you know, 80, 90% probability that the pick would be Holiday or Anderson, you know, like that 10%

wiggle room of maybe it's somebody else, and it ended up being to somebody else. Look, this is one of those deals where you have to hope that the people making the pick know what they're doing. I get a kick out of some of the people who say, oh, great pick, bad pick. I mean, if the MLB draft is as much of a crapshoot as any draft as there is, Willett is well regarded.

I mean, he was viewed as a top five at worst top ten picks. And the Nats do really like them. The interim general manager, Mike de Bartolo, in a session with reporters on Sunday evening talked about how this was the case where the analytics matched up with the scouting. De Bartolo is a big analytics guy, which is very encouraging. De Bartolo did say that Willis was the number one guy on their board. I know everything says that, but De Bartolo did say that. And yeah, the thing with this draft is there wasn't an obvious number one overall pick.

And so to be wedded to any one guy was always kind of silly. So you just hope that the Nats made the right call. I also think there's a money factor here in play where, where the Nats can go cheaper in signing Willits, but then could go more expensive on some of their later round picks, which it looks like the Nats are doing. And this is a viable M.O.B. draft strategy. I know a lot of people saw that.

It immediately said, there go to L. Cheap-O Nats again, and I understand that reaction totally, but it actually is a strategy that a lot of teams employ. And if it is, in fact, the case that they like Willits above everybody else, and he's cheaper, and, oh, by the way, he's not a Scott Borris client, then maybe you get the best. of everything here. We'll see.

Is it really as much, like, compare the drafts, NBA, NFL, and Major League Baseball. We don't need to include the NHL. Which is the bigger of the total sort of who the hell knows crapshoots? The biggest stuff. I think it's MOB. I mean, the NBA increasingly is becoming that because the guys are so young. But in MOB, I mean, you're talking about guys straight out of high school. You're talking about, you know, so many rounds.

And you're talking about a draft with a lengthy history of great players taken well beyond first round. Like, and I'm not to talk about like third or fourth rounds. I'm talking about like 10th rounds, 15th rounds, 20th rounds, et cetera. So I would say the M will be drafted. I mean, this guy, Eli Willis, who the Nats took, he's 17 years old. It's like, who the heck knows, you know, with a guy like that who's that young? Now, I think there is a real sneaky positive to that, and that is if he hit, he's hitting the majors around his age 20 season, which means he would come up for free agency around his age 26 season, which means that you would feel a lot better about paying big money to a guy in his mid-20s as opposed to his late-20s, early 30s. So that is the real upside with the high school player.

There's more uncertainty as compared to with a collegiate player. But if the guy hits, he arrived at the majors at a young age, he hits free agency at a young age. And especially if he isn't a Scott Boris client, he's maybe someone who you could sign to a big money long-term extension and feel pretty good about doing so. That actually dovetails perfectly into my next question. Do you think Rizzo would have selected Willits with number one overall? Or was this, you know, a Mike DeBartolo and what's left of Rizzo's staff, them making a different call? Hard to say. I think Rizzo would have been open to Willett.

but Rizzo is very big on pitching and on the foundation of every contending team is starting pitching. That's been a big thing with Mike Rizzo for a long time. So I would not have been surprised at all if he would have gone with a Kate Anderson or with one of these other starting pitchers. Also because a guy like Anderson is viewed to be potentially Major League ready by saying next season or the end of next season. And the state of this Natch rebuild being what it is, you know, I think there would have been a real desire on Mike Rizzle's part of desperation on his part to expedite this thing

and to get this thing in a better place. And so he maybe would have gone with the guy who would provide a quicker reward as opposed to someone like Willett, if he's going to pay off, probably won't be paying off for at least two or three years. So if I had to bet money, I'd say probably Rizzo would have taken Kate Anderson and one of the other starting pitchers out of college. But Rizzo in recent years has taken Bats, not pitchers, with first-round pick. So I don't think it's like incomprehensible that he would have taken Eli Willis. I mean,

Rizzo did take Brady House in 2021. Brady House was a high school player, a high school infielder the way that Willits is. So it is possible Rizzo would have taken this guy. Yeah, well, just out of curiosity in the 23 draft, had they had the number one pick, would they have chosen

schemes? So that's a great debate. I think Rizzo probably would have taken schemes just because of like I said, he's very big on sorting pitching. He was with the Diamondbacks when they won the World Series in 01 with Kurt Schilling and Randy Johnson, and we all remember how great. Those Nats rotations were 2012 through 2019. So yeah, I think he probably would have taken it. So back to Rizzo, the discussion about his firing just over a week ago centered on those who

thought it was justified. It centered on his terrible draft history recently, certainly from like 2012 through 2022 or 2021. In a sport in which it's the ultimate crapshoot in the draft, what made him so bad at it? It's hard to say.

No one has a great answer for that. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Rizzo did not have the staffing that other teams that have excelled in the draft have had, and so that hurt him. The problem, though, is this. The draft results have been so poor that to just chalk it up to lack of staffing, ownership problems, et cetera,

I think you're being naive. They have whiff on pick after pick, 2012, up until, you know, wherever you want to draw the demarcation line, because, you know, it's still too early to say anything definitive about like a Dylan Cruz or even a Brady Howard. But the Washington Post put out a graphic that was a jawropper. You look at every player drafted in 2012 to 2024 in terms of those who were drafted and signed. And if you go by their offensive war, offensive winds above

replacement for baseball reference in the regular season for position players, the NACs over that time a cumulative offensive war of 1.2, which is beyond atrocious. But I cannot overstate how bad that is. The M.O.B. average

during that span was 63. The Houston Astros for that span were at 162. That the Nats were at 1.2 is unacceptable. Like, you know, In no way can you say that that's okay or that that's justified or that that's something you can excuse. So, you know, I think with Mike Rose, multiple things are true.

He was outstanding a trade. He dealt with ownership and things with ownership, the likes of which will probably never know. And I know Tommy has been great on detailing some of that. But also the drafting just was not good enough. And the drafting to me is the number one reason this team is in the spot that it's been. We had Matt's Astros in the 2019 World Series. The Astros since then have remained a good team. team. The Nats have fallen off a cliff, and the difference has been the Astros

replenished so many of the great players through the Astros had on their 2019 team. The Nats have not, and that is what has doomed this team as much as anything. The drafting of Willits, does it say, I mean, you mentioned in reference the fact that it's cheaper. He's not a Boris client like the other two would have been. But does it also say that they've extended the rebuild even longer than maybe a lot of fans won? Yeah, potentially, it might. I mean, I think what it's going to be so interesting is what this team does at the trade deadline. And I'm not talking about, you know, trading away the obvious guys, the guys who are going to

hit free agency this coming off season. I'm talking about someone like a McKenzie Gore who contractually is at the exact same point that Juan Soda was at when he got traded in 2022. do. If you view this rebuild as a failure and as something for which you need to start over, then I do think you need to be open to trading Gore as much as I know people don't want to hear that. And trust me, I don't like saying that. But that would be the prudent thing to do if you think the rebuild is a failure. Now, if you think the rebuild is salvageable, which it might be, then you don't trade Gore because he's a foundational piece. So I think stuff like that is

going to be really telling. DJ Abrams is another guy. You know, Abrams is only under team control for another few seasons. Could it be that this offseason, Abrams get dealt if you think the rebuild is a failure. Or again, if you think it's salvageable, then you hold on to Abrams. I mean, it's such a weird season. You have Wood, Abrams, and Gore all having great seasons, not good seasons, great seasons. And yet the team is struggling like it is, 20 games under 500, run differential of minus 102. It's hard to sort of wrap your arms around where these three key players are all proving to be really good players. And yet the overall results for the team have been abysmal,

have been far worse than I think even like the biggest pessimist would have anticipated for this season. Galdi, by the way, joining us from the beach where he is on vacation with his family. How good of a guy is Galdi to do this? I told him he didn't have to do it, but he was nice enough to do it anyway. Real quickly, tell me the difference between what you described

as a salvageable rebuild versus a totally new rebuild. Like a salvageable rebuild means, you know, you're going to contend in how many years, and then if you decide to start the rebuild all over, how many years? What's the difference? So a salvageable rebuild would be one to where you say, okay, I think with a little bit of tinkering and with some encouraging developments the rest of this season. So say Dylan Cruz comes back healthy and it's productive. Brady House ascends.

You feel like next season you can take a big step forward and maybe have a win total in the 80s and maybe be on the periphery, the wild card race. And then by 2027 truly be back to contention, that to me would be a salvageable rebuild. And there is an argument to be made for that. You know, you have to sort of assume some things, but you can make the case. I mean, I don't think this entire thing is a total loss cause. A failure of a rebuild would be you don't see this team being a year or two away from being good again, that you see this team having, yes, Wood, Abrams, and Gore,

but then you don't see this team having much else beyond that. And rather than prolong this, you think it's time to hit the reset button and get back to doing what you were doing a few years ago, which is, you know, taking a much longer-term approach on things. Personally, I do think if I had to go one way or the other, I would say salvageable. but look, it's not an easy call, and if you forced me to argue the opposite of that, I very much could do that. But what I think would make this salvageable would be, like I said, first of all, would Abrams for all having good seasons? If Cruz and how to perform well the rest of this season, and that's a big if, but if they do,

now you're talking about, you know, five key pieces that have had good slash encouraging seasons. You have Josiah Gray, who will be back full-time next season, might be back even late this season off his UCL surgery. And that has to have two very high-level pitching prospects in the minors in Travis Decorah and Harlein Susana, who could be Major League ready by next season, certainly by 2027. So you can start to cobble together the picture of a team that actually is pretty good and is exciting. But look, we've had these conversations in recent years, and we said, oh, it looks pretty good, and oh, it looks like this team is on the right path. and it turns out it has to been on the kind of path that we thought.

So, yeah, it's tough. You know, I think this team this off season is going to have to have some honest conversations about a number of other players. I think the Cape Bret Ruiz conversation has to be had. Louise Garcia Jr. off a very nice season last season. He's been okay offensively this season. He's been one of the worst offensive players in the sports this season. So, you know, there are some guys who we thought might be fixtures here for years to come

who may not be fixtures here for years to come. And so I do think there needs to be some real honest assessments about what this team has. And, of course, looming over all of this is, well, who's going to be making these decisions? You know, you have an interim GM and Mike DeBardolo, is he the guy beyond this season? Is he just a part-timer and, you know, someone else is going to come in? So maybe DeBardolo views things one way right now, and then whoever ends up getting the full-time GM job this off season views things in an entirely different way. That's the scenario is possible.

So last week on the show I discussed with Tommy and I think I discussed with Barry's Verluga as well and maybe others. The similarities between where the Nats fan base is currently and where we were as a football fan base for a long period of time, kind of in that no hope zone because of ownership. With Dan, there was no hope as long as he owned the team that there would be any, you know, sustained level of success. And I think, you know, many Nats fans now believe that as long as the current ownership group owns the team, that there's not much hope. The situations are different, the personalities of Dan and the learner ownership group completely different. And the Nats had so much more success, obviously, than Dan ever even remotely thought of having. That eight-year run from 2012 through 2019 is as good a run, Al, as,

we've had in this town other than Gibbs 82 through 91. I mean, it rivals anything else that any of the four major pro sports teams have accomplished. But I'm curious to know where you think Nats, you know, nation is. Have they reached the point of thinking the way we eventually, you know, thought with Dan, which is, as long as they own the team, there's really not much. much chance of a sustained, successful run. Yeah, I'm not there yet. I certainly have gotten closer to that point.

I know a lot of Nat fans have gotten to that point. The hope is that, you know, they sort of wake up and say to themselves, okay, this team is in a really bad place. If, in fact, we are sticking to owning this team, we've got to start to do some things a little differently in terms of spending, not just on players, but on infrastructure. That, to me, is the bigger thing. They need to beef up staffing.

They need to get in on analytics. They need to spend the money on the necessary tools to get properly in on analytics and sports science. This is part of what was so encouraging from Mike DeBardolo in a session with reporters last Tuesday, where he expressed the need for the team to do these things. And I don't know if he was told by the learners that the NAC are going to start to invest in these things, or if DeBartolo was trying to speak these things into existence, or maybe he was just trying to present his personal vision for this team. But ownership needs to understand there is an information arms race in MOB,

and the NACs are still behind in that information arms race. You know, this is not 2009, 2010 anymore. Every team is smart now, and if you're not spending money on this stuff, if you're not spending money on the tools for this stuff, you're falling way behind, and the Nats have fallen way behind. And I think that's a big part of the problems here with this team. When it comes to the learners, I've always felt that if the right offer came along tomorrow, the team would be sold.

I've never bought this thing that the learners are no longer exploring a sale of the team. I still think if the right offer came along, they'd sell. And so maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but I still feel like within the next few years, this team will be sold. I may be wrong, but I just feel like once you put it out there that you were exploring, selling the team, that is toothpaste that's out of the tube. And I don't see how you can walk that back or all of a sudden say that, oh, no, we're all in on owning this team. I think once you say that you're thinking about selling, you got one foot out the door, and I think all it takes is the right offer.

And, you know, they've been waiting for that right offer, and we know how they are with their offers. You know, if they don't get their right offer, they don't make the deal. But if they do get that right offer, I still think this team will get sold. Yeah, I agree with that last part. All right, two more, and I'll let you run back to the beach. Number one is, how do you think James Wood will do in the home run derby tonight? He's the third choice odds-wise to win it. I think he's going to do well.

I mean, I would bet him to win it. And, you know, part of that is, of that is, of course, I want him to win it. Part of it is the Nats have a good history in the home run derby. 2018, Bryce Harper won it at National Spark, 2020, one, Soto won it at Dodger Stadium. But Wood is one of these guys who, first of all, he really has. in slump at all this season. You know, you maybe could find like a week or two in which he wasn't at his best. He actually had a bad game on Saturday over five-four strikeouts, and he had a defensive

miscue. But, like, he's been so good. He's been so consistently good. He's hitting for a ton of power. And while we haven't seen him yet in, like, a big spot, so we don't really know how he'll respond in a moment like that. He has every characteristic that suggests he is someone who will thrive in the big spot. He actually reminds me a little bit of Jaden Daniels and that Wood is very calm. He doesn't

say a ton. He smiles a lot. So you know, like he's enjoying himself. But he seems to have that thing that a lot of great clutch athletes have where you control the heart rate, you control the breathing, you don't get overwhelmed, and you just go out there and you perform. And I've gotten that sense with Wood since he was promoted to the majors July 1st the last year. And I totally could see him stealing the show in this home run derby on Monday. Sunday night. I hope he does. All right. Last one. Do they get Terry McClorn signed before camp begins a week from tomorrow? I say yes. If they don't, I don't think it's the end of the world. There are plenty of examples of contract extensions that Washington assigned players to that happened after camp opened up.

Trent Williams signed his contract extension. It was announced on August 31st of 2015. So these things can linger. Clearly, you want it done sooner rather than later. I continue to believe, there are too many reasons for this deal to get done at some point this offseason and two few reasons for the deal not to get done. So I do think it'll happen. But, you know, I recognize that a lot of people thought it would have happened by now. It has it. But I think it will happen. I just think there are too many reasons for it to happen. Get back to your kids. Enjoy it. Thanks for doing this. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll talk to you later. Al Galdi, everybody. When we come back, another list, this one ranking,

NFL coaches. We'll get to that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, we've reached that point on the sports calendar where it is all about baseball. Basketball's in the rearview mirror. Football's still a few weeks away in terms of preseason games. So let's focus on baseball. Step up to the plate with prize picks and add your favorite baseball players to your lineup, whether it's strikeouts, RBIs, or first inning runs. Make your call with more or less and play for your shot to win up to 2,000 times your cash today. Prize picks is the best place to turn your sports knowledge into cash. With millions of members, prize picks has made daily fantasy sports accessible to all.

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going to roll through this quickly. I'm going to finish up the show with Cody Benjamin from CBS Sports, his ranking of the coaches in the NFL. I actually just, let me mention, like Cody a lot. I've had him on the show many times. I think he is super sharp and astute. And before I looked at this list, I would have guessed Dan Quinn would have come in somewhere between 10 and 15. I think he's definitely a top half of the league coach. Clearly, in a better spot right now than he was a year ago, when many people thought he was Washington's fifth or sixth choice to be their head coach, which was not true. That's where I guess. he would be. I've seen other lists where he's been in that general range. I didn't think he'd be

in the top 10, but I thought he would be closer to 10 than to 15. So top half of the league would mean top 16. I thought he'd be closer to 10 than 16, but I thought he'd be somewhere between 10 and 15. So Benjamin puts him in three tiers, tier three unproven and underwhelming, unproven and underwhelming. Coaches like new coaches, Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn are ranked in this tier. And by the way, those coaches are ranked 21st through 32nd. But there are guys that have been coaching for a while

that are in that general area like Brian Dable and Rahim Morris. I'm not going to go through that stretch of the list, but 21 through 32, unproven or underwhelming. From 13 through 20, he titles this Tier 2, Servisable Coaches. And then Tier 1 are the top 12 coaches. He titles that tier, cream of the crop. So let's go 1 through 20. Number one overall, Andy Reed.

No surprise there. Number two overall, Sean McVeigh. Sean's easily a top five coach. I have no problem putting him at number two. John Harbaugh is three, maybe a little bit high for Harbaugh, but he's excellent. Siriani's four. Man, there have been times where I've referred to him as a clown or a buffoon, but they love him in Philly, and he has figured it out. He's gone to two Super Bowls in three seasons, and he's won one.

Dan Campbell is five? I don't know about that. Jim Harbaugh six, I think Harbaugh is one of the best coaches in the game. Kyle Shanahan's seven. I think Kyle is top five-ish, maybe a little bit low for him. Matt LaFleur may be the lowest ranked on this list. He's at eight. He's exceptional.

LaFleur is a top-five coach. I think I'd have LaFleur, Kyle, and Jim Harbaugh in the top five, and maybe Campbell, Siriani, and John Harbaugh out of the top five. At number nine, Kevin O'Connell, 10 Mike Tomlin, 11, Sean Peyton. Man, Sean Peyton's one hell of a coach. 12, Sean McDermott, 13 Kevin Stefansky in Cleveland, and then 14, Dan Quinn. So he was between 10 and 15. He comes in at 14, and Cody Benjamin writes, few coaches enjoyed such a catapult in stock in 2024.

That may be mostly due to Jaden Daniels' magical dynamism. him at quarterback. His coordinator higher of Cliff Kingsbury was part of the equation, though, as was his experience on the playoff stage. Dan Quinn is, I think,

an exceptional leader. He is phenomenal for your culture and for a franchise like ours, we needed him. Adam Peters needed him. Josh Harrison Company needed Dan Quinn. He may not

be the best X's and O's coach. He's been a pretty exceptional defensive coordinator, minus a couple of playoff games. But Dan Quinn is definitely, I think, a top half of the league coach. And I would put him closer to 10. I'd have him in front of Stefanski on this list. Honestly, as much as a fan of Mike Tomlin, I am, I think at this point I'd have him right there with Tomlin. Tomlin's a 10.

Sean Peyton, I don't think I'd have him ahead of. but maybe Sean McDermott, I would. Stafansky, by the way, is a bit underrated. I'm not saying that I think most people would have thought Stephansky would have been in the back half. Stifansky being at 13, I think Cody Benjamin gets it. Kevin Stifansky can really coach and coordinate. He's got quite the challenge this year in Cleveland, that's for sure.

But Quinn at 14, I don't have a major problem with it. I don't. I would have liked to have seen him maybe at 13 or 12 or 11 somewhere around there. one more season like the one he had last year, and he will be much higher on this list. But I think that is a pretty fair list. By the way, after Quinn, the rest of the serviceable tier,

D'Amico Ryan's at 15. Mike Vrable at 16, Pete Carroll at 17, both of those coaches going into their first years in New England and Vegas, respectively. Zach Taylor at 18 and Todd Bowles at 19. Bowles is higher than that. I'm sorry. And then Mike McDaniel, he would have been much higher on this list a few years ago, and I think he was at 20. All right, that's it for the show. I'll be back tomorrow with Tommy.