The Kevin Sheehan Show - A Beal Deal?

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

Kevin opened with the ESPN news that Bradley Beal and the team are open to trade scenarios. Ben Standig/The Athletic jumped on to talk Commanders, Novak Djokovic, and more. Denny McCarthy was a guest talking about LA Country Club and this weekend's US Open.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show today presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C.

for a chance at a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000. You've got to use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to claim that bonus. They've got everything you want, golf fans, to bet the U.S. Open. at My Booky, whether you're a diehard or a casual fan, simply put, there's never been a better time to start exploring the world of online sports betting with My Booky. In addition to everything you'd want, related to the U.S. Open, which starts tomorrow, they've got all of their NFL 2023 prop bets up.

The season totals, odds on winning divisions, championship games, Super Bowls, rookie of the year odds, first coach to be fired odds, all of that available at my bookie where you can bet anything anytime, anywhere with my bookie. Two guests on the show today. Ben Standig is coming up. And then after that, you're going to hear part of my conversation with Denny McCarthy from last week on radio after Denny nearly won the memorial. He's in the U.S. Open. and in that conversation that I had with him last week, he kind of previewed LACC, L.A. Country Club, and the kind of U.S. Open it will be. But we start with some breaking news, literally as I am recording this podcast.

It's a good thing I checked. Twitter. Adrian Wojnerowski from ESPN, their senior NBA insider. As rival teams begin, reaching out to the Washington Wizards to explore the possibility of trading for three-time All-Star Guard Bradley Beale, team president Michael Winger, and Beal's agent Mark Bartolstein of Priority Sports, are staying in close contact to discuss scenarios presented to the franchise. Sources tell ESPN on Wednesday.

The Wizards are working with Bradley Beale. right now on trade scenarios. Remember he just finished the first year of his five-year $251 million deal and I suggested last Friday or Thursday or whenever Ted Leonis held that press conference with Michael Winger and with Will Dawkins. First of all, I found both Dawkins and Winger to be impressive, especially Dawkins. But no matter how much they try to sell this new front office. The first tell will be whether or not they recognize that trading Bradley Beale is important. And if they don't recognize that and they think they can actually contend with Bradley Beale on a five-year, $251 million deal as their highest paid

player and the player perceived to be their best player, well, that would tell me that this isn't going to be any better than the past. So we've got to draft a week from tomorrow. There are, you know, player option decisions with Kyle Kuzma and Chris Stapp's Porzingis coming soon, but it certainly would appear based on Woj's reporting that the Wizards and Beal are talking about trade scenarios. interesting because a piece of news that came out yesterday was that the Miami Heat actually tried to trade for Kyrie Irving at the trade deadline. I think that would have been disastrous personally.

But they've got Tyler Hero and three first round, future first round picks to dangle in front of somebody like Washington. Now, would that be enough to get somebody like Damian Lillard, who is in a class above Bradley Beale? He is. Maybe not, but maybe it would be enough to get Bradley Beale to Miami. I like this news, and I'm a fan to a certain degree of Bradley Beal. I don't have anything against Bradley Beal, but I want this team to eventually contend for a championship, or at least contend for deep into the postseason.

With Bradley Beal is your best player, the best you're going to be competing for, really unless you get some real good young players, players and draft exceptionally well, you're going to be looking at, you know, playing territory, seven to ten range every year. That's not what they want. That's not what he hired these three people to do. So there you go.

Some news related, you know, within a week of hiring all these guys, I guess two weeks since they hired Winger. The Wizards potentially looking at trading Bradley Beale. One other quick thing before we get to. to Ben Standing. And by the way, my conversation with Ben will include some stuff on the Wizards, but this was recorded with Ben earlier this morning before this wizard's news broke. But you'll hear us talk about Beale without knowing that news. But the other piece of news that came out from Ben Fisher at Sports Business Journal is that the NFL has put out a memo to its owners

that they should reserve July 20th and August 8th as dates for a potential vote on a very important league matter. So, you know, what we're talking about here is, of course, you know, the ratification, if you will, of the Josh Harris Group as the new owners in Washington. I still will say what I've said multiple times. don't know why they have to be together to do this. I think it's ridiculous that we've got, you know, a month, you know, in a week or potentially a month and a half before these guys can vote on it. I don't know why in 2020, in 2023, excuse me, they can't do this via Zoom. But NFL owners,

according to Ben Fisher from Sports Business Journal, have been told to reserve July 20th and August state as dates for a possible special league meeting. So all the while, you know, a month and a half is going by potentially without stadium stuff, without, you know, getting excited about being the owners of the new team and allowing guys like Ron Rivera to make decisions on contract extensions for Cameron Curl and, you know, any other football business that needs to be conducted, we'll have to wait just a little bit longer. All right.

Let me just remind everybody. Please rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify. If you get a chance, that's really helpful. And follow us as well on Apple and Spotify. That's helpful as well. All right. Let's get to Ben Standing next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Ben Standing, jumping on the podcast with us today.

Of course, Ben covers the Washington Commanders for the Athletic. You should subscribe to the Athletic. I'm a subscriber. It's very inexpensive and totally worth. it. You can follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Standing, and you can listen to his podcast, Standig Room Only. So I'm having Ben on today to talk about a number of things because Ben and I have a lot of the same interests. Like Ben actually really likes tennis. I think he likes tennis the way I do, which is he likes talking about tennis in the 80s and 90s, more so than watching tennis today.

but we can talk a little tennis and a little bit about where Novak Djokovic ranks all time. Many people now saying he's the greatest of all time. We can talk some wizards. The draft is a week from tomorrow night. But we will start with, of course, the football team. And yesterday was the last scheduled day initially of OTAs. They had the three days, two of them were docked. Ron Rivera made it very clear to you guys, as in the beat reporters covering the team on Thursday after minicamp,

hey, don't forget, we are practicing. We are taking advantage of this last OTA day on Tuesday, June 13th, which they then, on Monday, canceled and had some sort of light workout or something yesterday. So I want to go back to last week when he was so adamant and telling him. everybody about this. You and I talked about this on the radio, but for those that just listened to the podcast, you really felt like this was an Eric B. Enemy decision last week, as was a lot of the scheduling with respect to, you know, OTA days and mini camp days. Yeah, I mean, it's a weird dynamic because typically we've seen here the coaches cancel the final day of the off-season program

as a bit of a reward, assuming they feel pretty good about everybody doing their work, and typically they do and then they move on. So in that regard, it's not surprising that it was canceled, except that they already had two days of OTAs docked because of some excessive. of hitting last year. The league did that. So they're already down two days, leaving this one day. You know, they were asking the players to finish a mid-camp Thursday

and then stay through Tuesday. And, you know, any of us who've ever gone through, like, the last days of school, you know, it takes forever to get there. So I'm sure for some guys, again, the OTA is voluntary. So, you know, players didn't have to be there. there that I imagine the coaches eventually saw the landscape and we're like, all right,

a bunch of guys are probably not going to come back. So let's do, let's make this less official than it would have been. And, you know, I also so, so yeah, so they did switch in that regard. I also wonder,

you know, to whatever degree they're thinking, hey, we've kind of avoided the injury bug here. Obviously, it's a bummer with Armani Rogers. But You know, he is the only one that we know of who's had any type of notable injury here that set them back. And if you think where they were a year ago this time, with the amount of guys who are out that maybe they were like, you know what, we think we've gotten some good work in. We're asking guys to say four more days. We know a bunch of guys probably aren't.

So let's just, you know, those who are here, we'll get some stuff done. It looks like they're having some fun out there yesterday with a punt pass and kick competition. among other things. So, you know, a light day, but some guys, you know, where they aired stayed, and I don't think it's a huge deal, but yeah, they went from being, you know, we're definitely doing this too, okay, we're going to shift course here. I mean, you and I talked about this last week. I thought, look, I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. But considering that last Thursday, I felt like, okay, they're going to have this, you know, scheduled day. Eric Bienimi is probably, you know, influencing this taking advantage of every opportunity to install his new offense, work with his new players, have his players work with him because he's new.

And then I said to you, it's going to be interesting to see how many of the offensive players stick around and post for this thing. And ultimately, they probably canceled it because overall there just wasn't going to. be as much of a turnout and they may not have wanted to, you know, deal with whatever the response would have been to a light turnout if they had had a light turnout. Or let me say, instead of light turnout, if they had had a significant number of absences, compared to just the three that they had for the first, or the three to four, whatever it was, because I know there were others that, you know, had, you know, a couple of misses. But basically less than five absences for OTAs for the first six.

Yeah, and by the way, like the primary difference, at least from my perspective, of them changing the format is, if it was an OTA, that it's open to the media, it's open to the public. This way was open to nobody. Right. So, yeah, so we're not there going, okay, well, this guy's not here, this guy's not here. actually half the starters or whatever it would be. You know, if you follow some guys on Instagram, you could see some guys were certainly elsewhere.

If you look at some of the videos that are out online from the team and elsewhere, you can see some of the guys that were there. So definitely a, you know, not a full house, but, you know, like I said, I don't make it be a huge deal, but, yes, it's the story line would be very different right now. If we're all going, all right, well, they had this one OTA and X amount of players didn't show. So, yeah, they avoided that as well. All right, let's talk some

football. You've written this morning, part one of two parts of your big takeaways of the off-season so far. You know, the next time we will see this team together is Training Camp, which they announced earlier this week begins on July

27th. So give me a couple of your big takeaways from, you know, you don't have to give your whole story here because I want people to subscribe to the athletic and read it. But a couple of these are things that we've talked about on radio, but I'd like you to give your first one because I think this is an interesting development. Big takeaway number one was what?

Yeah, it has to do with Antonio Gibson. For me, I go back to when he was coming into the league. and, you know, when they drafted him in the third round that year, it was sort of like, wait, why are they drafting a running back? They've got Adrian Pearson, they've got barrier guys. It doesn't seem like a position that you need, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay, well, this guy actually played receiver in college, and wait a minute, some people think he's a slot. Some people think he's either running back who could shift outside, he can return. He was like, okay, this is a really interesting player. We don't quite know what he's going to be, but it's clearly a guy that's the guy that's,

they can use in a lot of different ways. And to some degree, they did some of that. But I always felt he ended up being much more of a conventional running back than the way it was initially portrayed as how they were going to use him. And, you know, his yards per carry has gone down each year. He was obviously highly productive as a rookie, but his yards per carry has gone down each year. and, you know, it hasn't felt like he's been this big dynamic playmaker for a while. Or, you know, not that he's not been effective or helpful, but just not as dynamic.

And with Eric B. Enemy, I think there's a chance that we get back to some of those initial thoughts as to using him in a varied way. You know, one difference is this will be the first year he's playing where Katie McKissick is not a factor, right? McKissick was around, and I know he got hurt, but when they start their planning, McKissick was always there as this past catcher, you know, change of pace kind of guy. Well, now, Gibson is kind of in that role. You've got Brian Robinson, and now you have Chris Rodriguez, who are more of those between the tackles guys.

And, you know, we talked about, I think last week, about how the screen game has been a bigger element in practices so far, something that they rarely used with running back last year. I think when you put it all together, I think it's pretty interesting to see where Antonio Gibson can go. I don't know about usage yet. I mean, we'll see more about that later. But in terms of role, I think this may be the more interesting of the ways to use him than they have in the previous season. Yeah, I'm excited for that.

I just think that, you know, in watching, you know, the Chiefs in recent years, as we all have, because it's been impossible to ignore them. But to see, you know, the way guys like, well, a guy like Jerich McKinnon in particular in the last couple of years has been used. Obviously, Isaiah Pacheco was a real fine for them last year, and they'll have McKinnon and Pacheco this year. But just watching the way they use their backs, and part of that's the quarterback, too, you know,

the quarterback going through it and creating off schedule. But a lot of it is planned. And Gibson to me has, I've, I just think he's one of the most gifted players on the team. And I wonder how much the fumbling problem early, you know, in 2021 and 2022, or going back to 2020, excuse me, how much of that, you know, had them thinking Brian Robinson, Jr. Had them thinking running back, which you were all over last year before the draft. but now you've got a fresh set of eyes, and it sounds to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but Eric Biena me likes what he sees in Gibson. Yeah, I mean, I think also like the three running backs, you know,

Brian Robinson didn't catch a ton of passes last year, but he's got the ability to make plays and Chris Rodriguez, he looked at his Kentucky stats. Same thing, not a lot of plays as a receiver, but from what I've seen, he can do that. And I think, like, you know, the more versatile your running backs can be, it's going to keep the defense a bit more off balance. And I think that's going to be interesting to see here. And then, you know, Gibson obviously is the most naturally versatile of the bunch.

And, yeah, I mean, go back and watch his highlight tape from Memphis and even some of that first year here. And you're like, wow, like this guy is. you know, incredibly dynamic and explosive, and we just haven't seen it as much. Now, again, some of that is him. We talked about this lot after his rookie year. Like, there were some really good numbers, but he left a lot on the table on the field in terms of, like, you know, seeing running lanes.

And, you know, sometimes it's like we say, like, well, players got to improve, and sometimes you just have to say, hey, why are you using him in ways that he's not as effective? and because he's a big guy also, you know, he, I think it probably lets you think, well, we could just, like, you know, run him up the middle or, you know, between the tackles like we would some other players. And I just don't think that was his guy. Whereas I thought with Brian Robinson last year, you definitely see a guy who's much more decisive at the line of scrimmage.

So, you know, I'm just intrigued to see what they do. I would probably put, you know, Curtis Samuel in this vote as well. I mean, they did use him a lot out of the backfield last. here in various ways, but I'm curious if he would be enemy will do with him when the time comes. And, you know, Diommy Brown is another one. I mean, the guy with, you know, like that crazy speed that they've never figured out how to use in his first year. So I don't know exactly what will happen with him.

But those are the guys that I think, you know, if the enemy system is what people hope it could be, then I think those are three guys that can really be interesting in ways we haven't seen as much in their careers here. Yeah, I mean, I still, and I've been stuck on this for a while now, I still think that Antonio Gibson was pretty good between the tackles as a thumper. I don't think that he, you know, maybe there was some, you know, coolly pointed this out his rookie year, thought that his vision wasn't great, and his patience wasn't great. I thought that improved dramatically. I remember Scott Turner telling me that last year when I had him on. He said he's a much more, His patience and his vision is improved dramatically, and then last year the fumbling improved. But look, Brian Robinson, Jr., I'm not taking anything away from him. I think he is their best in between the tackles guy. But they rode Gibson to a four-game winning streak in 2021 and back into playoff contention.

I mean, that was a really good defense during that stretch and a lot of really good Antonio Gibson during that stretch. I'm glad that I remember Ron Rivera saying early on. We'll see, you know, what Eric thinks of Antonio. I'm glad that he's going to be, it sounds like he's going to be a big part of what they do. And remember everybody, he is on the last year of his rookie deal. So it's a big deal for him. So you wrote about something else that I wanted to talk about. briefly, and that is that, you know, the D.Bs and how it will shake out. And even though during some of this period, you know, of OTAs and minicamp, we saw Forbes in the slot, that's not where he's going to be. So in your best estimation, who's the slot corner when we get to September

10th? Yeah, I think, well, you know, I think what's interesting, thing is they have two distinct paths that they can go, depending on the matchup or what they want to do. You've got Benjamin St. Goose obviously started at that position last year a lot before they moved him outside when the William Jackson thing imploded. And he gives you that really big, you know, six-three option, especially if you're facing like, you know, tight ends or some, you know, big receivers.

But, you know, they drafted Kwan Martin. even they were basically like he's not really a safety basically that spot like they basically drafted him to play this specific position and you know again it's early and we haven't seen a ton yet but you know I think he's looked pretty good he's been around the ball

you know his versatility of these players in the secondary is so important but you know you have to you have to adjust you know within the play depending on what the other team is doing and you know he can play close to the line of scrimand. He can play, they think, deep safety. He played cornerback some at Illinois.

So this is a guy that can use in a lot of different ways, and I think like, we, you know, we just spent so much time early on about, you know, four or St. Juice or Fuller there, and the reality is it's much more Quinn Martin and or

St. Juist there. But, you know, I think golf would have wouldn't rule out, you know, there's still the, you know, you can play Cam Curl there. you know, you can go with another cornerback if you wanted Danny Johnson or someone like that. But I think Juan Martin and Or St. Juice is going to be one of the more interesting battles for sure. And I say battle. I mean, I just mean like how do they want to deploy them?

I think they can both play there. But like it's just how do the coaches want to use them? I think it's going to be an interesting watch throughout the summer. All right. How do you think they think Sam Howell did? I think they did pretty good. I mean, you know, he's got natural talent, arm strength, you know, good mobility. Doesn't seem to be overwhelmed by the situation.

And I think all that played out in these practices, you know, inexperience is only going to come, or experience, I should say, is only going to come with time. And, you know, they gave him all the first team reps as a way to, you know, try to help speed that process up. And, you know, I think they think he did pretty good, you know, that Dallas game was only one game and it isn't to suggest he's going to the Hall of Fame base off of that. But it showed he can play. And I think, you know, a lot of times we watch some of these quarterbacks implode, I mean, you know, maybe they have the one game and, you know,

that things fall apart after that. But, you know, do you see the guy look the part when he's out there? And if he does, then, you know, obviously, that's, you know, that's a most of the half to battle, but that's a good part of the battle that you've got to work on fine-tuning at all. And I think he did that, and I think he's continued to do that here. You know, but we'll see when I get back to training camp and start dialing things up, you know,

he did throw a bunch of interceptions. Was that a function of experimentation and, you know, the defense knowing they're not running the ball and things like that? Or, you know, was that a concern? And we'll see if that continues going forward. But, you know, I think for the most part they feel pretty good about where they are with him. And, you know, now we've just got to see about taking, you know, up a notch or two as they move forward. You want to talk a little tennis?

whatever you want to do man you're uh you're running the show here all right where does novac jokovic rank on the all-time greatest men's tennis player list well the reason why this is so fascinating to me is look obviously we can all you know it's like all these go debates we can you know oh this guy had a better this this guy had a better that you know whatever may be but i remember and i've got the tweets to to back this up that when federer you know he passes pete sampras for the most major and keeps going and, you know, gets to 20, and, oh, he's the best ever, people would cite the number often.

And I was always like, okay, but if you're telling me the number is the thing, then what happened when the doll catches him? And the doll, you know, for that, the current, it's all had a better head-to-head record. I know a lot of that, of course, the things like the French Open, but the doll beat him on big stages and other surfaces. and, oh, well, you know, that's not a thing. Well, sure enough, the doll catches and passes, et cetera. Now, you know, that argument seems to go away.

And now you have Djokovic who's passed them both. And what is so fascinating to me is, like, to use the NBA as an example, you know, Bill Russell, the great players, has the most rings, but he played primarily at a time where, you know, he was like, you know, There just wore a lot of athletes like him. I mean, Will Chamberl was there for a little bit,

but he just had better team that, you know, he just won more dominantly. Whereas, like in some areas, you know, you've got, you know,

simultaneously, you know, Magic Bird, Michael Jordan, et cetera, Isaiah Thomas, and boy, if you really have to go up against,

you know, some of the best ever to win. Jokovic to get all these majors, other than since Federer's retired last couple years, he's had to win them all with those two guys there, already ahead of him. I mean, they both had, I mean, Federer, if you go back and look at it with a four-year period of his career,

where Sampress and Agassizade retired, or was retired, and Nadal had only just started to play, and Djokovic was nothing, and that's what Federer racked up a huge amount of majors. And I'm not saying that's negative. I'm just saying that's what he did. So he won a lot at a point where there really wasn't another all-time great with him.

Nadal and Jacobich always had to win when Federer was there. It's for Djokovic to have done it with both of those guys are there. When you have Nadal completely dominating one surface and Federer being great at the way at Wimbled in and, you know, pretty like everywhere, of course, it's just incredible that he's been able to do this. So if you're just a majors person, well, then I think he's got to be the best one when you put it all together. Now, if you want to, we point to that forehand, that biggest clutch performer. I don't know.

Some of these things maybe give him more difficult, but I think it's pretty hard to ignore right now the Djokovic would be the guy. Am I right? I think when he just won the French, he's just pretty the first person to have won at least three times on all the surfaces. Yeah, he's the first one to win three on all four, at all four, majors, yes. Yeah, but there's only so many players who even won one at all majors. I got a goal left.

You'll need all your fingers to count. I think the number of players have done that. So that he's done it that many times. Again, in a point when two of the other guys who are in the discussion of the best ever are playing is, you know, insane. Yeah, it's really, I hear what you're saying. I always try to think about, like, you know, at, best who was better? I still think Federer at his best was the best of the three and the greatest

of all time, but he's got a losing record against Nadal. He's got a losing record big time in Grand Slams against Nadal. He's got a losing record against Jokovic. Jokovic, by the way, has a losing record against Nadal at Grand Slams too, and I think they're pretty much 500 overall. But then you look at Nadal and you're like, you look at at his, you know, his 22 and 14 of them have come in Paris. Does that, you know, does that factor into this? I think Federer and Djokovic actually as all surface players are actually are ahead of Nadal, but at the same time, Nadal head to head with these guys and Grand Slams has a winning record.

So I don't, it's a hard thing. I just think Federer, and you brought up a really interesting. Federer did win a lot of those majors starting in 2004 as Agassi was winding down. I mean, he had Roddock there, but he owned Roddick. Nadal, to be fair, I mean, Federer won his first, I think, in 2004, and then racked up like literally 11 majors in like four years. And Nadal had started to win the French at that point. You know, he was, you know, I think Nadal's first French came in 2000.

2005. So that rivalry was beginning, and the doll was his, you know, his greatest rival during that era. But the early, you know, 11 out of his 20 came in the first four years. I think it was. Hold on. I'm adding them up right now. Federer's first major, I'm sorry, came in Wimbled in 2003. So he got that three the next year, two the following year, three the next year, three the next year. So 3, 6, 8, 11, 12 majors over a five-year period, 12 of his 20. It's pretty amazing. But for me, just watching Federer on any surface, to me, the eye test tells me that Federer, at his best, was better than Nadal and better than Djokovic. But it's hard to argue with Djokovic, who's been an absolute machine.

And by the way, he's missed a couple of the last majors because of not being vaccinated, because of the pandemic canceling, you know, Wimbledon in 2020. So there have been, though, you know, he's missed a few of them. Not that the others haven't missed majors as well due to injury. But as he's really, you know, accelerated his major gatherings, he's missed out on a couple that he probably would have won along the way. I mean, he could easily, easily be at, you know, somewhere close to 25, 26 now, if not for missing a couple of these because of his vaccination status. But yeah, it's a hard.

And then I think about like the great, like, people were convinced when Samperus retired that nobody was going to catch Sampris and his 14 and that Pete was the greatest of all time. Although really a lot of the old-timers will say Rod Laver is the greatest player to ever play. This is another one of those conversations about sort of evolution and what it's done to the athleticism and the physical abilities that they have today, not to mention the technology that's totally different from what it was in Labor's Day. But I don't know. Federer for me at his best, I don't know if we've ever seen anybody that great. and by the way, that graceful at the same time. Maybe it was as much about the way he did it as it was that he did it. That's why I think with Federer.

Aesthetically, he is just so pleasing to watch, whereas, like, the doll is a true grinder, and Djokovic, it's not like you're watching. It's not like watching a ballet. It's a machine. But, like, Federer is, like, you know, I don't know, and if I go Barishnikoff, that may be too old of a rapist.

But, you know, like, he just had that dancer, like, vibe at him. And I think that made him just so elegant to watch, especially I play at Wimbledon, where, you know, it worked so well. But, like, I think your point about, and this is sort of what I was saying, like, if you're telling me somebody who's the best because of the number of majors,

and we have the same debate on the women's side, if you're telling me they're the best because of the number of majors, okay, if that's your argument, but I don't love that. I think like in the NBA goat debate, like I don't personally think there's a debate between Jordan and LeBron, but people will always just go to, well, Jordan, and I'm saying because Jordan would be the better, but like people say, well, Jordan's got this many titles,

and LeBron doesn't, therefore he wins. I don't like that argument. I watch them play. Jordan was better. The number of the majors, you know, it doesn't matter. In the case to say the NFL, Tom Brady's, what, seven, is such an overwhelming number. It's such an outlier. Yeah.

Yeah, it kind of trumps the debate. But, like, it wasn't that, you know, Joe Montana ended his career being viewed as the guy. He, you know, like Jordan, never lost a Super Bowl. But because Brady's number just dwarfed what Montana did, it's now. it's no longer a discussion. I kind of think maybe it should be, and I would even put John Elway in there and whatever. But, you know, the Rings culture that has dominated these conversations over the last,

and I don't know, a decade or two, you know, I think it's an important data point, obviously, but it shouldn't be the whole conversation because of something like this. If you're going to say that, then is Joachovic and the doll better than Federer, who you and a lot of other people are saying is the best ever? How do you, you know, we're just going by rings. Yeah. But the thing is, is that, you know, even though I just said that I think Federer at his best is the best I've ever seen, you know, at the apex of his career.

And an individual sport, it really does come down to, you know, the numbers. Now, you can say, I mean, Djokovic is the greatest winner in the history of the sport. You know, Tom Brady is the greatest winner in the history of the NFL, but you're talking about a team sport versus individual sport. The individual sport, this has to matter as much, if not more, than anything else, because you're not dependent on anybody else to win a ring, to win a title. But with that said, I watched all these guys, and to me, Federer is the best I've ever seen when he was at his best.

didn't feel like there was ever a chance that Federer was going to lose when he was at his best. And yeah, I think the gracefulness of style may have some influence on that. But he was spectacular. I mean, six Australians, eight Wimbledons, five U.S. opens, just one French. I'm glad he got that French. And Nadal, you know, heavily weighted on clay and on, what he was able to do in Paris. And Djokovic, by the way, has 10 Australians out of his 23, you know, and I'd like to look at

the fields in the Australians that he played in, you know, over that period of time. But he's got 23, and so he is, you know, one thing that's not debatable is if you judge, you know, that particular individual sport by its majors, Jokovic is the greatest winner of all time. And by the way, he's not done yet. And I would also say, you know, we talk about, obviously, part of this debate when you're judging different errors is, okay, well, how do you factor in the training that guys had or the advancement in medicine and medical technology, whatever? I don't know if there's any sport where that is more notable than tennis. Sure. You know, when Bjorn Bord retired at like, what, 26 a minute or whatever, I mean, that was like burnout.

That wasn't an injury, but, like, it was all, you know, that was really, but, like, there weren't many. tennis players who thrive beyond like 30. Like when Jimmy Connors was out there as that older guy back in the 80s, like he might as well have been 100 compared to like some of the guys he was going up again. You know, this is a sport where like 15-year-olds, you know, especially on the women's side, have great success. So the fact that these guys have been playing deep into their 30s and then you wouldn't know that they're, that they're, that they are there.

That Joevich is like the fittest guy out there. you know, Tom Brady was in Djokovic's box the other day for the final, and I was thinking the joke which probably looks at Brady's diet as like, I've got two minutes, too loose there, Tom. You're eating too much junk food. You know, Tom Brady's is, you know, crazy as anybody. But, like, the advancement of these guys have to take their fitness up to these levels is crazy. And in that sport in particular, where so much of it is about the cardio, you know,

the ability to stay out on the court for four or five hours for a match is remarkable. And it's way different than it was back in the day. It's actually interesting. And I don't have, you know, the data in front of me for this. But I think we went from an era in which players actually played well until they were older. I think, you know, Rod Laver and John Newcomb and some of these guys did play well into their 30s, if not late 30s. And, you know, Conner's never won a major at 39 years old, but he got to the U.S. Open semifinals at 39 years old, which was that famous, you know, open back in 1991.

90 or 91, whatever year that was. McEnroe, by the way, followed it up a year later, I think it was, with a run at 35 years old to the semis. And then we went through this era where, you know, like, you were done at 25. Like, you know, I know that, I mean, Agassi started to get injured, but, you know, it was like, no, this is a young person sport. And now Djokovic is 36 years old. And he's still got more majors to come. So there's, it's been, I don't know what the right answer is. I think for a while people really thought maybe it was because of Borg's retirement, you know, and it was burnout retirement at 26 after losing to McEnroe in the 81 U.S. Open.

But I think that there was a period of time where everybody thought, my God, you know, Andrea Yeager and Tracy Austin and Andre Agassi and all of these young phenoms, Aaron Krixton. And it's like, you're done at 25. And by the way, you've got to be a pro by 15 or 16. And now... Right, we set up for Capriata. Yeah.

He's on the 14. Right. But I just remember, for the great. Rod Laver won the Grand Flam. These were his last majors. He was 31. 31. So he was into his 30s, though. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, a little bit.

These guys are just playing, you know, I said, way, way beyond. Also, it is insane that, like, I always, like, love the idea, like, what's the most random sports data that you just find interesting? And I really go with that Stan Rorowinka, who most people are listening to that probably don't even know who that is. He's Swiss. He won three majors. during this Federer Nadal's joke of its era, which is insane because those guys, like, combined like 60-something.

65 out of the last 79, 65 out of the last 79 majors have been won by Novak, Fed, and Nadal. And by the way, their combined, you know, major count of 23, 22, and 20. So what is that? 65 majors. I just said 65 out of the last 79. The, no, that wasn't the stat I was coming up with. Djokovic is 23, all right. McEnroe, Connors, and Lendell combined have 23.

We have been living through by far and away the greatest championship run, grand slam run in the history of men's tennis. and it coincided, by the way, with the sport being the least popular it's ever been in this country. Still wildly popular in Europe and in South America and in Australia and other places around the globe. But in terms of the interest level in tennis, I mean, you tell me, I mean, I think Serena's been by far and away the number one draw for Americans, American tennis fans over the last decade. and a half. Nobody's cared about this Joakovich-Nedal-Fed run in this country. And what's interesting about that is I don't think it's just because they're not American players. I mean, we were all in on Borg, but I guess it's because he had a rival in Connors and then eventually McEnroe. But, you know,

there were periods of time where it was Becker and Edberg and V. Lander and, you know, those kinds of guys were dominating the game. And we were. watched. Yeah, I mean, I do think that, like, certainly for me, like, I'll be honest, like, this French Open, I watched the Jokovic match most of the final. It was the only match I watched for even one minute. Yeah. And part of it is this inevitability with these guys.

I mean, there's something to be said for watching greatness, but we watch greatness all the time with these guys. But I always believe that the universe at any given time spits out only so many players in whatever sport you want to talk about who would be considered to be the best, a chance to be the best in their sport at any moment. And oftentimes something derails one or two or three of those people because of whatever it is, injuries, off-the-field issues, whatever it might be. I think Serena Williams is a good example of this. While she was able to sustain a very, very long career, some of her biggest rivals didn't, for whatever reason.

Martina Hingott had off the court issues. Kim Kleister, Justin N. and our dad, both... Retired. And we retired. So, like, all of a sudden, you went from having these players who were Serena's rival, if not maybe equals, to the field was open and now she's dominating. And, you know, we see that sometimes just, you know,

know, the NBA is well, we're looking at the star players. It can happen a little bit. So, yeah, I mean, these three guys played their whole careers, other than, you know, fits and starts with injuries or whatever. Or, like, in a case joke, like you said, the vaccine and some other matters, like they played, and that's why these guys were so, you know, to have three of them simultaneously playing is, yeah, it's insane. And, yeah, it's been fun.

But you're right. I think it's going to be really interesting area here for tennis. Obviously, Federer is retired. Nadal's on the verge of retiring. I don't know how much longer a joke of it just had. When is somebody else really going to step up and show that they are worthy? Maybe it's the Alcoraz kid from Spain. But, you know, that's always so fun when you see the next generation, you know, stand toe-to-to-to-to- with this group and then beat them. And it usher is in a new era, and I think also allows fans.

to feel like it's still connected to the prior thing. I think this is part of the problem with the women's sport, with women's tennis. Nobody challenged Serena. There was no consistency. I know right now whether it's White Tech, I think he's got four majors. But, like, in general, like, it's like every major. Like, you could, it's like four reign of new names in the semifinals. There's no consistency.

It's part of the problem. And I'll be interested to see what happens here with the men. Of course, at this point, it's given up to an American. his calendar rise up. It is insane that nobody has done anything since erotic, basically. And he was, you know, one major. He was in a bunch of finals, but yeah. By the way, you know, just thinking about Djokovic, it's like Serbia right now on top of the world in terms of Nicole Yokic and Novak Djokovic. All right, enough tennis.

Let's finish up with this. Do you have any kind of overarching thought about what Ted just did over the last week, hiring three executives to run the Wizards or to run monumental basketball? Did you just ask if I have any thoughts about Ted Leo if it's running the Wizards? I'm more curious as to what you think of these hires. Yeah, I mean, you know, look, I, you know, I'd be lying if I said I had a deep dossier on Michael Winger before it was mentioned that he was interviewed and they got hired. But, you know, I asked around and, you know, I think generally speaking,

you got pretty high remarks. Multiple people told me that, you know, really smart guys are really going to help them from like a salary cap perspective and being creative

and things like that. He is not a basketball town evaluator by nature. He's a lawyer. So he is truly the president, and I guess like, you know,

it would be sort of like Dick Patrick with the Cats or when Stan Kasten, who was here, of course, with the Nats, was overseeing things that it's like that.

So I think that's pretty interesting. The Will Dawkins part as essentially the top eyes for the basketball side, we'll see. I don't know. He's obviously come from good stock with Oklahoma City. And then Travis Schlank, who was

the GM at the Hawks, the fact that Travis Slank is the third guy here, essentially, pretty interesting, considering, you know, it has felt like, you know, say whatever you want about, you know, Grunfeld or Tommy Shepherd, but it didn't feel like the, there was a like a deep

group of thinkers here, I guess, to say. I mean, I don't want to discount people that I know, but, you know. Yeah, well, Ted likes to use the words mindful and thoughtful. He used that a lot last week, and that's kind of what he put together. I mean, he swung kind of big for Ted, don't you think? Yeah, well, what's interesting is the Wizards were the only team. You know, at least at the point they were making the higher, obviously Golden State, Bob Myers, left, whatever, but like they were the only team.

that had an actual GM opening, you know, the top of the front office opening. So, you know, who knows? I don't know if there's a year where there's like five, do they get winger, do they stay in a type of hire, do they make normally? I don't know. I mean, you know, I think that Travis Schenck came here, again, and, like, a third guy is, it says something about where the marketplace was, perhaps. But, yeah, I give Ted credit for that where I will 100% ding him,

his notion like when people were asking hey Michael Winger you have the ability to rebuild and he said I do okay great we'll see what happened but then when Ted has asked about this I don't know if where it was the press conference or somewhere I heard on the radio

but he's like well just look at my track record you know look what we did with the cap so you know way back when we you know traded a bunch of vets and look what we did with the wizards you know we traded away three all-stars meaning Gilbert Arenas Antoine Damiener and Akron Butler not only is some of that disingenuous.

I mean, Gilbert Rebus was oaken at that point, and, you know, coming up the guns in the locker room, and, you know, they definitely had to rebuild. It wasn't like a big, big shock at that point to think that. But he is completely ignoring the fact that he said publicly, within the last five years, we will never, ever tank. And that has been the basis for the frustration for so many of us over the last two years.

I have to say you had to definitively blow up the wizard five, six years ago, but it's been pretty apparent the last couple of years that the move was, as good as Bradley Beale is, to trade him knowing he was going to get this huge contract, looming, trade him, start over, you got you traded Westbrook without having to give up picks. They were in such a good position a couple of years ago to really get a quick turnaround here from a rebuild standpoint, get excitement, and he didn't because he said, we will never, ever tank. So to act like he's always been open for this, give me a break.

And if he's not going to own that, then I can't give him total credit for this. But, again, I think it's an interesting move. But, come on, you've got to own that guy. Anybody that you specifically want them to draft, that you hope falls to eight next week? Unless it's Victor 1-Bagnan or Scoot Henderson. I have zero idea. I don't even know.

I mean, you know, I haven't, like, remotely, a callbacked all of me is not what it was. So, you know, you would know much better feel than me for these guys. So the answer would be no. I'm just much more interested to see what they do with Beal, if they do anything and what they do with Kyle Kuzma and Porzengis. Because keeping all that, it will help you in the short term, but it's getting you nowhere long term.

But if you let them go for kind of nothing, then, you know, you're not helping your cause either. I'm worried to sit in that, but how about you? Is there somebody in the draft of you? At eight, I don't know, honestly. I mean, there are some players that, you know, that I haven't seen. I didn't watch, you know, these Thompson brothers. They played in the G-League.

You know, I've seen a lot of highlights on Scoot Henderson, but they're not going to have a chance to draft him. You know, Grady Dick's just another really good shooter. I kind of like Anthony Black, but I don't think he's going to be there at eight. And the guy that I think is going to be an outstanding NBA player, but they just don't need them from a positional standpoint is Hood Chafino from Indiana. But I think the most important thing without question in terms of the moves that they make once they sort of take this thing over and the draft is over is, do they try to move Beal?

Because they can't win and contend for an NBA championship keeping Bradley Beale in that contract. And Bradley Beal, you know, thinking, continuing to think that Bradley Beal is an elite player because he's not. And Ted's thought that he was. You know, Ted was sure that not only was he a great ambassador for the franchise, but that he was somebody you could build and contend with. But you can't, not if he's your best player. So I think that's the most interesting thing is to watch what they do with Bradley Beal. Porzingis and Kuzma have, you know, player opt-outs, and they'll probably both opt-out.

And to me, Porzengis is worth resigning because he's got the massive ceiling. He's the guy that could be elite, like true superstar. Hasn't proven it because of injuries, but there were times last year and games last year. I was like, wow. I mean, he really is a difference maker. All right. Anything else on that? Well, I'll just say, and I'm with you, like, if they hadn't botched the draft

with just so many mediocre picks, the Beal-Poorzinga-Kuzma Trio, could have been a lot more interesting, but that's not how that worked out. I would just say that I know, like, in the summer months, you've got to dig deep for topics. If you do a topic of what's been the worst decision that any of these teams have made over the last 20 years, I defy you to tell me one that's worse than giving Bradley Beal to know a trade clause, considering they didn't have to on any. any level. Like, it is such an unforced, like you can say signing Albert Haynesworth is bad.

Albert Haydra was the defensive player of the year. Yeah. Right? I understood why it. I still don't. I still don't think that that was a bad signing. I still thought in the moment that, you know what, this is what they need. Yeah. Giving Beal the no trade clause was obviously not necessary, but I also think that they should have dealt Beal prior to that. But anyway, all right. Oh, yeah, for sure. But, yeah, you've got to go. I do have to go because I've got to do a radio show,

but I appreciate you doing this. I will talk to you later. See ya. Ben Standing, everybody. That may have been a bit too much tennis for some of you. So we'll go to golf next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. The heat and the humidity are coming.

They're going to drive your energy bills much higher, forcing that air conditioning into overdrive this summer. It's time to beat the heat with Windonation's summer sale. Right now you can save thousands with no money down, no payments, and no interest for two full years. Plus, Windonation will give you two free windows with every two you buy, no limit. Protect and increase the value of your home today. Call Window Nation 86690 Nation.

Go online at Windonation.com. mention my name Kevin Sheehan. You'll get a free estimate so there's nothing to lose. I've been endorsing Wind Donation for now 14 years. I've been a customer of Wind Donations and I promise you you won't go wrong if you choose them. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. No money down, no payments and no interest until the year 2025. Plus buy to get too free with no limit. You'll save thousands on your new windows all the while upgrading the look and feel of your home. So tomorrow at Los Angeles Country Club, the U.S. Open gets underway. I had a guest on the radio show this morning, Brody Miller from

the athletic. He was excellent in describing the mysterious Los Angeles Country Club. It sits right there in Beverly Hills, Wilshire Boulevard. And it has been one. It has been one. one of the more exclusive places in the country for a long period of time. The USGA, which runs the U.S. Open, has come to the Los Angeles Country Club membership many times over the years, wanting to play its United States Open at LACC, and they've been denied over and over again. LACC's never hosted a major championship. But a few years ago, maybe eight, nine years ago, whenever that was, they finally,

said yes. Brody Miller did a great job of describing not only kind of the history and the mystery of LACC, but he also described the kind of course it is, which is exactly what Denny McCarthy did with me on radio last week when I had him on after he nearly won the Memorial Jacks tournament in Dublin, Ohio, right outside of Columbus. So I wanted you to hear Denny McCarty who will be playing in tomorrow's U.S. Open this weekend's U.S. Open. And Denny nearly winning at the Memorial, a lot of people like Denny's chances. I mean, he is a great putter, and he's actually got a game that's more suited for very difficult courses than the courses where you go 25, you know, 20 under par and win.

So I wanted you to hear Denny McCarthy describe sort of L.A. Country Club, and this weekend's U.S. Open. Here was our conversation from last week. I think somebody told me a mutual friend, family member, mentioned to me that you've played it a number of times. Is that true? I have, yeah. I've probably played it.

I played it in February to get a look at it when I was on the West Coast, and I'd probably played it two or three times before that. So I've seen it at least three or four times. I wanted to see it in February just to get a look at it. you know, familiarize myself. And it's going to be a great test. I'm looking forward to it. So is it a course?

Like I think, and you said this in your press conference, that tough courses are good for you. I mean, you're a great putter, great short game, the whole thing. Does this set up as a very difficult, you know, U.S. Open course? Yeah, it was hard to tell in February. Right. It was really soft. And no matter how long it is, you know,

if it's soft for pros, even if we're hitting four irons, you know, with the softness, you're able to stop it quickly. And it's not as difficult when it's soft. So when I played it, it was kind of soft, but it was very long also. So if they get it firm, which I imagine they're going to, California doesn't get that much rain, it's going to be a hard test, just because there's just a lot of rolling hills. It's going to be Bermuda rough.

Fairways are firm. and undulating. So if you get a ball rolling on the edge of the fairway and trickles just into the rough, you know, it's going to be difficult to play out of the rough. You're coming into firm green, deep bunkers. It's going to be a test. You're going to have to put the ball in the fairway. You're going to have to get quality shots around the greens that might not even get rewarded

and, you know, might be, you know, bound off the greens. And then you're going to have to, you know, obviously at the U.S. opening, you're going to have to have some grindy up and downs. make some par saves, and, you know, that's what I like to do. It's more suited for me than it is, you know, going out and trying to shoot 25 under at an event. I like the events where, you know, shooting around par is a really good score. And, you know, I like those championship type of venues and courses,

and, you know, I'm really looking forward to it. Good luck at the Open next weekend, and I appreciate you doing it. this as always. Of course. Thanks for having me on, Kevin. Denny McCarthy from last week talking about the U.S. Open and LACC, which starts tomorrow and he will be in it. All right, we are done for the day, back tomorrow with Tommy.