The Kevin Sheehan Show - A Bieniemy Philosophy Theory

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

Kevin today with thoughts on Eric Bieniemy's play-calling during Sundays' game against Arizona and why it might have been an indicator of an early sign of a philosophy in the development of his offense in Washington.ESPN's Scott Van Pelt jumped on to talk about what it was like to be at Met Life for the Aaron Rodgers short-lived debut on Monday night. The boys talked NFL, Commanders, Terps, and College Football as well.MASN's Mark Zuckerman was a guest to discuss the Mike Rizzo contract extension and the Nats/Steven Strasburg retirement situation. For your sports betting needs, to go https://www.mybookie.ag/. Use code KEVINDC at signup. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. At this point, none of my thoughts are about the previous game. It's all about what's our new game plan and what's our mindset going into Denver this week and how can I attack that

and get to know the plan and get to know the defense as best as I can going into Sunday. So I'm really not focused on anything really that happened in the game. Obviously, there's some things throughout the week that we know that came up in the game that we like to do a better job of. but all my focus on the game playing for Denver.

That was Sam Hal from earlier today. Wednesday is Media Day for the quarterback in the NFL, and Sam did address a lot of what happened on Sunday, but eventually got to the point where he was ready to move on to week two and their showdown with the Broncos in Denver on Sunday. The show's presenting sponsor is Wind Donation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. Mention my name.

good care of you. You'll get a free estimate. Again, 86690 Nation or windownation.com. Thanks to Window Nation. Two guests on the show today. Scott Van Pelt will be on in the next segment. Mark Zuckerman after that. Nat's GM, Mike Rizzo, finally got that contract extension today. Good for him. And I think good for us as well. I'll also ask Mark about the Steven Strasbourg retirement situation that has got. gotten a bit sideways. For those of you asking about a Cooley film breakdown for this week, maybe later in the week or perhaps next week he is busy. I do know that on Sunday he heard from Alex Ovechkin very early in the morning who was wondering

why Cooley wasn't at the game on Sunday because Alex Ovechkin was. so were a lot of other athlete celebrities on Sunday at the game, including Philadelphia 76ers Center, Joelle Embed. Of course, Washington's new owner, Josh Harris, he owns the Sixers. And Embed came down to the game and sat in the owner's box, took pictures with Josh Harris and others. There's one picture in particular of Embedd and Kevin Durant with Josh Harris. And that picture was commented on by longtime Philadelphia sports personality Howard Eskin.

Howard Eskin quote tweeted that picture, or whatever we call it now on X. Is it a quote repost? Whatever. He wrote this about Josh Harris with Joelle Embed in this picture. He wrote, quote, tone deaf is one way to describe this photo. which fans are more offended? Philly sports fans, Eagles, or Sixers fans? Can't figure out who's more asinine.

The owner of the commanders and 76ers, Josh Harris, for asking Joelle Mb to appear at a commander's home opener as ambassador for a rival Philadelphia team or Mbid for agreeing to it. A Sixer is insulting to his biggest fan base when supporting a rival of the Eighty-Beele of the Eighty-Beeed for agreeing to it. Eagles. Does anybody in Philadelphia even respect or like Josh Harris? Hashtag clearly tone deaf. That was Howard Eskin. Longtime Philadelphia WIP Eagles radio network guy rather opinionated,

as many in this business are. He's a polarizing personality in that market. It has been for a long time. I've had Howard on my show many times on the radio show. I think I've had him on the podcast. I just had him on recently, in fact, to talk about Josh Harris. And he's not a fan of Josh Harris. I think I basically told him in that interview that it really doesn't matter much about Josh Harris. We would have taken Lee Harvey Oswald as the new owner if he were still alive if it meant

that we didn't have to have Dan anymore. To which Howard actually agreed, yeah, Dan's much worse. but he's not a fan of Josh Harris, thinks that, you know, basically it's a business to him and, you know, making money is the priority not winning. That's his take. Now, as far as Harris goes, I like Josh Harris so far. I haven't mentioned this, but I have had a chance to meet him and have a conversation with him. And I think he's smart. I think he's genuine.

I think he's far different than Dan in a lot. lot of ways, but one way more than any other. He's not arrogant. There's a humility to him, as well as the biggest minority owner in the franchise, Mitch Rails. That is a far different personality trait with this ownership group compared to Dan and his group. I had somebody text me on Sunday, late Sunday to say, you know, one of the things that was noticeable, pregame was Dan wasn't walking around the field, you know, with his henchman just dripping arrogance and said that these guys were engaging and they were friendly to anybody and everybody. Yeah, look, they're enjoying the attention that comes with this new team as they should.

And they're also in that, you know, mode of really trying to, you know, let everybody know, hey, it's a new day. Dan's gone and we're not Dan. And so far I think that's true. But anyway, from my perspective so far, it's been so far so good, no matter what Howard Eskin thinks. But look, we needed this. We had to have this. And that's something that Philadelphia fans, Eagles fans anyway, don't really understand or get with Jeffrey Lurie having owned that team for as long as he's owned it now. But Howard Askin did have a point about Embed being in the box at a Washington game when Washington is a division rival of the Eagles who are a team in the city in which he plays NBA basketball. You know, we didn't like it, or some of us didn't like it, when John

Wall had an Emmett Smith Cowboys jersey on at a Redskins Cowboys. Cowboys game walking around on the sideline. Bryce Harper never hid how big of a fan of the Cowboys he was. You know, you really, look, you can't count on players these days to figure that kind of thing out, unless they are really in touch with their city and their fan bases. I'm sure, by the way, at this point, it would have been much worse for Eagles fans, had imbed been in Jerry Jones's box or even in the Mara's box in the Meadowlands. Our team isn't the rival for their fan base that the other two teams in the division are.

Look, the part of what we've had to suffer through is horrible teams, horrible ownership, but also the loss of our standing in the division. You know, we're not really the Cowboys chief rival anymore. That's the Eagles. The Eagles chief rival is the Cowboys, and maybe that's always been the case. But, you know, we were a big part of the mix of rivalries in the division. And, you know, they've just beaten the shit out of us for so long.

And they've understood. Those fan bases have understood, and those organizations have understood that, you know, we're at the bottom of the barrel. I don't know. Look, in Joel Embed's case, he was there with his owner, his boss, the guy that owns the NBA team that he played for. What's he supposed to do? Say no.

But I doubt that he even really knew that this might, you know, generate an actual response. Maybe Josh Harris shouldn't have put him in that position. But you know what? Like, this is an old school thing, I think. Fans like Eskin are the only ones who really care because rivalries aren't nearly as important as I think they used to be, or they're not as important as they are with older fans. They aren't as important with younger fans as they are with older fans. Excuse me.

It's certainly with professional sports. Anyway, I thought that that was kind of entertaining. I think we reacted similarly to John Wall being in that Cowboys jersey and Bryce Harper during an All-Star game asking Joe Buck about the Cowboys and whether or not, you know, Dach and Zeke were healthy, I think was the question several years ago. Don't forget to rate us and review us. Very important for us, especially on Apple and Spotify. and I mentioned this with Tommy yesterday.

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so we're hopeful that it won't happen again. But just a reminder that if it does happen, you can always just listen to the show on the website at Kevin Sheeonshow.com or the kevincian show.com. Both URLs will pop up the show with a big button that you hit play on and you can listen to the show. that way if you end up having issues. But I do apologize for those issues. Rate us and review us if you have time on Apple in particular. It's always good to get a rating and a review because it really does help our ability to generate revenue. This from Billy Ho, love the show, especially during football season. Met Tom before would love to run into you.

By the way, he titled his review, Kirk stinks, but did give us five stars. And then this from Neil, Neil titled his review, STMS, Shian Time Management Services. And he wrote, once again, the clock whisperer, whispers us. Seriously, though, the second you said to run out of bounds at the nine and a half yard line, I said out loud, because you can't get a first. down. Great take. Yeah, I was talking about what I thought, again, it was a weird situation. Andy Reid in that first game last Thursday night going for a fourth and 25, you know, with still three timeouts left. Like we've never seen that really happened before. And so it just occurred to

me and my son. We were sitting there watching it. What if he had just taken it and run backwards to the nine and a half yard line? At that point, it would have. absolutely guaranteed that the Chiefs would have gotten the ball back because Detroit couldn't have made a first down and run the clock out. They would have gotten the ball back worst case down eight with a chance to score, two-point conversion tie. More likely than not, down four, and it's possible they could have gotten it down one if Detroit turned it over or missed a field goal. It's also possible Detroit could have gone for two and gone up by nine. But that was the only way to guarantee getting the ball back.

And the context of that particular moment was Andy Reed clearly did not believe in his defense. Anyway, rate us, review us, especially on Apple and Spotify. And again, if you've had some issues with Apple and Spotify, just go to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. That is always there. The show always gets posted there. And even though it is posted on a similar platform, no one's had an issue. listening via the website show platform. So anyway, by the way, I talked a little bit about Denver yesterday in the game that

they had played against the Raiders and that there were only six possessions in the game, which was crazy. The other thing about that game that I didn't realize until I watched more of it last night, Sean Payton opened up that game with an on-sides kick. the first look at Sean Payton's Denver Broncos for Denver Bronco fans was an onside kick. Amazing. Remember, he did that in Super Bowl 44 to start the second half against the Colts as the Saints coach, and it ended up being one of the really big plays of that Super Bowl, which is the only Super Bowl that the Saints have ever won.

The other thing also real quickly about Denver, and I'll have more on this on Friday. They are not explosive offensively. They move the football and a lot of the Russell Wilson completions and he had 27 of them were typical Russ Wilson plays, you know, vintage Seattle Russell Wilson where he's moving around and outside of the pocket extending the play. A lot of off-schedule completions, including the two touchdowns. Look, Russ has never been a big-time pocket passer. his best work has been done outside of the pocket.

And that's what you noticed from the game on Sunday, is that, you know, Russ has struggled from the pocket in part because of his size over the years. But I thought he did a good job outside of the pocket, but they're not an explosive offensive team. Cortland Sutland's out there, but no Jerry Judy this week, no Jerry Judy in the opener, no Jerry Judy this week. Tim Patrick got hurt before the season started. I am a Giovante Williams fan. They're running back, and I think Somaget Pirine has looked pretty good for them as well.

I'm looking forward to this matchup because I do think it's a winnable game. Look, they're playing a team that's more interested and better than the team they just played, but it's not an explosive offensive team, and I think it could be another game in which the defense shines. We shall see. Denver's defense is capable, and again, it's going to be. better than what they faced on Sunday overall. Anyway, Denver, a three and a half point favorite on Sunday, where the weather is supposed to be beautiful.

83 and sunny in Denver. That's not a humid 83 either, not at 5,280 feet. 5,280, right, equals a mile. I'm pretty sure. It's 5280. Before we get to Scott, I wanted to talk about Eric, be enemy here for just a moment or two. I was constructively critical of the play calling on Sunday against Arizona because I thought there were too many dropbacks. I thought there were too many

passes. And I didn't think that there was an adjustment to the fact that the game's result was being put at risk by dropping back Sam as much as they dropped him back. And look, they had, you know, they took six sacks and had three turnovers. and still won the game. That's pretty remarkable. And it's also a reflection of just how bad Arizona is. They were playing a guy that, for all intents and purposes, is really a third-string NFL quarterback in Josh Dobbs.

But I also pointed out that there could have been perhaps, you know, a long-term thought, a long-term plan with Eric Bien of me. So I want to talk a little bit about that because I actually think I may be on to something. here. So they came out and they were chucking the ball all around the park. I mean, at one point, I think it was 33, you know, called pass plays, including plays that ended in penalties, et cetera, that didn't actually count on the play sheet. But in terms of what was called in the huddle, at one point, I think it was 33 to 11, all right, passes overruns. And that went from first half into the first two series of the third quarter. And then the approach changed.

And I had talked about the other day that there's a long-term thinking here as it relates to not only Sam Howe, but the kind of offense that Eric B. Enemy wants to coach. In today's NFL, it's really hard to win big and win often over a period of years without being able to throw the football. You know, game-managing quarterbacks and game-managed teams are. aren't sustained winners typically, and they're not consistent threats to go deep into the postseason. And Eric B. Enemy just came from a team that has been a consistent Super Bowl threat year and year out since Patrick Mahomes took over. But, you know, even Andy Reid has always had sustained winners and has always understood that today's game, you've got to be able to throw the football. You have to think aggressively.

And I think that part of the Eric B. Enemy plan here is to play it aggressively and to err on the side of being aggressive. And that's the game plan. Like, you can talk about there weren't a lot of wrinkles. There wasn't enough, you know, trickeration. There wasn't enough Kansas City in some of the plays and play design. Well, it's early. And by the way, he doesn't have Patrick Mahomes or Tarek Hill or Travis Kelsey. but I think that winning the game is important.

Of course, they want to win every game. But if they go down, they want to go down thinking aggressively and becoming a team that can throw the football. And by the way, it's easy to think that way with this particular group because, A, he's got a quarterback that can actually make every throw, and, by the way, has some mobility and is coachable. But most importantly, is it's, actually the strength of the offense, the pass catchers, the wide receivers.

So he wants the ball in their hands. And so I just think that there is a mindset with Eric B. Enemy. It's one game, and I've cautioned all week about one game, especially week one. But I can't wait to see what the game plan is for Denver. I can't wait to see if he continues to let Sam go back and drop back and throw it a lot more than they run it. Ultimately, it balanced out, but it wasn't the way games typically balance out, right? Usually, you know, you throw it to get the lead, you run it to run the clock out and win the

game. They were losing for much of the game, and they ran it to take the lead after trailing. Like, they decided, well, we've put this game at too much risk, and we didn't think that the game would be at this much risk. Maybe they're thinking they thought they could certainly. throw the football. That was part of the thinking, but I, you know, in terms of, it wasn't that, oh, we're just going to come out here and throw it. It doesn't matter what it results in because it's going to be a learning experience. But I do think that the learning experience, that he wants

Sam to learn that we're going to throw the football and we're going to be aggressive, and you're going to take some lumps here early in your career as a starter. And you're going to have to grow from those experiences. I don't want you to grow from game managing experiences. I want you to grow from being aggressive. You know, a lot of coaches will also always say in any sport, I don't care if you make a mistake, but I want it made full speed. And I think that's Eric B enemy's mindset. I do. But I think on Sunday, because the game actually had been put at risk by being too aggressive, that when they got that big turnover from Montez Sweat, they decided, okay, we're not going to drop back and potentially take a sack and get knocked out of field goal range and then have to punt and let

them, you know, full around, you know, being, and I'm talking about that drive at the second turnover when they were up 17, 16. And, you know, we'll take the four point lead because that should be good enough for a win. And so he ran Brian Robinson, Jr. three times. But even on the drive after the sweat turnover, the touchdown drive that gave them the lead, you know, we started to see an emphasis on not putting the game at risk. They needed a touchdown. They were down 1610, but it was Brian Robinson, Brian Robinson, Brian Robinson, Brian Robinson, and then on first and goal from the eight, Sam Howell, incomplete, Chris Rodriguez

for a two-yard gain, and then they dropped Sam Hal back and he scrambled for a touchdown. But the mindset changed when the game became a major risk in terms of losing it. I said this on Monday that maybe there's a method to this. Maybe he wants to think in terms of developing this young quarterback in a way in which we're going to throw the football because that's the way you win big in this league. and it may put the team at risk at times of being in a closer game than they want to be in or maybe losing a game, but that there's some long-term thinking here. And I think to a certain level, I may be correct on some of that.

So I want to see, I can't wait to see how this Denver game gets handled. Who knows? They might come out and just try to ram it down their throat with the run. and be much more balanced in the first half than they were. But I think there was a message that Eric B. Enemies was giving to Sam Howell, giving to this offense that we're going to be a team that not only improves, but we're going to be a team that improves that when we improve, we're going to have a chance to win big, not just go nine and eight and be a seven seed. And that may not happen this year.

It may happen next year with Sam or the year after. So overall, I liked the aggressiveness. I love the aggressiveness at the end of the first half. And I just think watching Eric B. Enemy call these games was always a big storyline heading into this season. But it's become even more interesting to me after one game. But we'll see. The one game may have just been the one game. Scott Van Pelt next right after these words from a few of our sports. This segment of the show brought to you by, my good friends at MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C.

On a deposit of $50 or more, you can receive up to $200 in cash instantly into your MyBooky account. Bet your deposit amount just one time and you can withdraw at any time, but you've got to use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to claim your cash deposit. You can bet anything, anytime, anywhere. only with my bookie. Jumping on with me right now is my good friend, Scott Van Pelt from ESPN. First of all, did you check out how the odds makers adjusted the totals for week two in the NFL?

You see how low they are? No. You know, it was a very low scoring week one. Unders were 12 and 4, and there are like four or five games that are in the high 30s, like 40 in terms of totals. So I don't know what's going on.

It was a low-scoring week one. There were some weather issues, I think, in some places. But I don't know. It looks like defense is ahead of offense at this time of the year. How are you doing? How was Monday night at MetLife? It was fun. It's a great reminder of what it's like to be in the middle of something like that.

The atmosphere before was unbelievable. I mean, it was a city that was in a frenzy, and then the air comes out of the balloon when Rogers gets heard, and then it ends with this walk-off, and it's 80-something thousand people going just bananas, and then you're on TV a second later. And there's nothing that's quite like that, and so being in the middle of it was great fun.

You know, you told me that just the feeling before kickoff, and the electricity in that building, the energy in that building. And you and I both know what, a stadium or an arena that's really jacked up feels like. Where did this rank? I mean, it doesn't get much, it doesn't get much higher. I mean, what's the volume go to, right? I mean, it's the old spinal tap joke. It goes to 11.

I mean, this was at 11. And it was the kind of thing where, you know, the stadiums now, they're different from the old days of, I mean, our memories of RFK, which might as well be 100 years ago. But, I mean, every stadium's got pyrotechnics and lights and the speakers are out of, you know, ear splitting. And I'm damn near deaf. So, I mean, it's all of that. But then it's just you're waiting at September 11th, and you're just outside of New York City. And guys are coming out with American flags, and here comes Aaron Rogers. they've been waiting for decades forever for a moment like this where they all buy in.

And then it's, you know, Charlie Brown with a football. It's just impossible, impossible how it went from 11 to zero. And that building was, it was, you can understand it. I mean, they're just like, you've got to be kidding me. And the defense gives them a chance, keeps a minute. And, you know, like, that's a game if you're buffley. You just can't lose. It can't lose that came and they did.

I mean, before and after were amazing. The middle was, you know, it was understandably flat. Yeah, I mean, it was just such a stunning occurrence, four snaps into it. And I just, I think everybody was just completely jaw dropped in that moment. And then it was just waiting to see what it was. Scott, for those of you who don't know, and my guess is most of you do know, is now hosting Monday Night Football's pregame on ESPN with RG3, with Marcus, with Spears, with Ryan Clark, and a lot of others.

And it's off to a great start. You know, just tell everybody, this is a different role for you. You've done so much in so many different ways, play-by-play of golf and the big majors and obviously Sports Center and so many things. But what's this been like through the first, you know, when you did the Baltimore game here in Washington during the preseason, but that really didn't match what Monday night was like. So what's the gig like?

It's interesting just because it is different and it feels different. You know, they gave me SportsCenter to do with it what I wanted, right? I mean, it was me sitting out there by myself, my man, Stamper-Seeve. in the studio, but not sitting next to me. And it was just a total departure, and it was a blank canvas, do what you want with it. Like that I count down, there are people on the production side and in front of the camera who have been on it before, and I'm sensitive to that. I don't want to come in and just start elbow on my way up to the bar and say,

here's what we're going to do, because I don't think that doesn't feel like being a real good teammate. at the same time, they didn't put me out there to be a traffic cop either. So this was the first show we ever did. It's 9-11. It's New York. It's Aaron Rogers. It's not like you get to kind of test the water. You're diving in the deep end right off the bat.

And then there's weather that arrives an hour before, and you can't do the show on the field. They sent you up to some club-level people or four guys sitting on chairs in a suite. I mean, it's the smoothest way to try to take off. but I was really pleased because I felt largely like myself. And what I mean by that, Kevin, is, I mean, you know me. I'm very comfortable with myself. I'm very comfortable with the role in SportsCenter.

So I think when you watch me, I think largely you know me as well as anyone. Like, that's me. I'm not, I really don't alter myself. I just didn't want to, I didn't want to feel like I was playing some role or being some version of me that wasn't me. And I didn't. And so I was pleased with that, it felt like, um, You know, it felt like me largely that the one thing I told them when we talked about this

beforehand was I don't tend to watch pregame NFL shows. And I just don't understand why the networks feel the need to have like an all-22 on a set. Like, what are we doing? You just, no one can get a word in Ashwise. It's just, I don't know what the point is of so many shows where it's just there's like 20 people. What are we doing? I agree.

And we don't have that, for the most part. I mean, there are segments where it's two or three of us. There's one segment where you're making picks, and it's everyone who's there, Alex Smith who's there, who's just a phenomenal guy. And for the first one, if this is where we start, and I'm optimistic about how, as we all get more comfortable with one another, we'll get to a place where we all feel great about it.

I just had no idea what it would feel like. And thankfully, you know, as I said, I felt comfortable. I didn't feel like I was kind of a passenger along for the ride. I didn't know where we were going. Real quickly about the game, well, not about the game, about the future of the Jets and Aaron Rogers. Do you think he plays again? I tend to.

I think he put so much into it and invested so much in it, emotionally, just with his time, just trying to get all these young guys on that jet side kind of all aligned and see his vision and all the rest of that bit. I just can't imagine that he wouldn't. Having said that, Kevin, you know, I've done golf my whole career, and Tiger was, he was going to catch Jack. Like, there was no other option. Well, okay, then your back gets used and you have a,

a million different surgeries and you don't always get to write your own walk off. You don't always get to choose it. So my guess is that this is the type of injury that would allow him to heal completely. He'd be 40 years old.

I know he was energized completely in New York in a way that, you know, he wasn't in Green Bay at the end. If I'm bed and I bet he would. I just can't imagine that you get the next year this time after all of that. You go, yeah, I'm good with

the fact that I got four snaps and 75 seconds, and then that was how my career ended. I don't think anyone can picture that. What were your big takeaways from week one other than Monday night? I mean, the headlines to me were Tua and

Tyreek and you know, what that looks like with two is healthy. We've seen games like that. I'd be really interested to see how they do this week against New England. New England largely boxed up Philadelphia. That offense didn't do a whole lot

against Patriots. They had a pick six and they ended up hanging on and winning by too many if you took New England thanks to a two-point conversion that got a flag on it. Neither here nor there. But I think the

way Miami looked was interesting. Dallas's defense was clearly the singular storyline from any one unit, like, you have to ask yourself, is this a Detroit, excuse me, is that the Dallas is that good or New York's that bad type of deal? I imagine it's probably a little bit of both. It almost always is.

And I just think there was, frankly, a lot of just kind of, I don't know, close games, but not really entertaining games, you know, the Broncos and the Raiders, the Saints, and the Titans, the commanders and the Cardinals. I mean, yeah, these are all close games, but none of them were, what you'd call brisk, well-played affairs. Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, I talked about how not only was it low-scoring, but basically almost every single game in the league,

with the exception of the Monday night game, ended with, you know, quarterbacks taking knees. And, you know, sometimes that happens after, you know, a last second field goal, but the close games weren't kind of walk-off games either. I mean, close doesn't always mean really entertaining. It just means they can be close kind of because everyone's sort of similarly futile. But it is real football, and thank God we have that back.

Oh, no, I'm not complaining. Oh, yeah. I mean, it just speaks to what we've always said. I mean, when you're ravenous for this, you know, it's like, all right, you know, was it filet? No, it's kind of a hand sandwich, but like, stack them up on the table. We all want to eat them. How much of Washington, Arizona did you watch? And what are your thoughts of them week one?

Quite a bit. Quite a bit. I mean, all I kept thinking was they can't lose this football game. You just can't. I know you were there. You and I talked off air about just, you know, there's buy-in from the crowd, and people are excited, and that's great. I mean, the defense is really good.

We know. I don't know how much you learned going up against Joshua Dobbs and that Arizona team. It's pretty limited. The HAL thing, I don't know. I mean, the turnover before halftime, you just can't make a mistake in that spot. I mean, I get what they were trying to do. You had enough time to make something happen. I just think I walked away from a kind of shrugging and going,

all right, well, they didn't lose, so that's all the matters in the NFL. And they say the biggest jumps typically made from week one to week two, and I think you're hoping to see that if you're a Washington fan, you know, you're hoping to see the offense having. something. They didn't have much going the other day. All right. Let's flip it to college football real quickly. How good is the Dion Sanders story been for the

sport here in the first two weeks? It's amazing. I mean, look, Fox is all in. They took their pregame show there and just didn't leave. I know. Which was fascinating. They set up shop out there in Boulder and did the pregame before the game they had

last week, and then they said, we're not leaving. And then game they said, well, we're coming and it's our game. So what are we doing here? Which, I don't know how they sorted it out behind the scenes who gets to set up where. It's just, you know, kind of very inside the Bellway, our industry pissing match, but who gets to have their set where. But ESPN's fired up because they've got, I think they've got Oregon, ABC has Oregon, Colorado the following week.

And, I mean, he's, I think every school that wondered about him and what it might look like if you signed up for all that comes with Dion. and that's not a negative. I just mean he is a massive self-promoter, which I'm sure you're happy to have, be part of what you get because it's made Colorado football relevant the way it hasn't been in forever. But I think if you're one of these schools last off season

that kind of kick the tires on, you know, should we hire this guy? I don't know, Colorado's been the singular story of the season. And granted, it's a couple weeks. in, but it's amazing. His son's excellent, hundreds and, you know, I saw a column today about how he sort of college football show Hey Otani, right? He's a two-way guy with the massive impact both places. We'll see.

We'll see what happens when they, in the next coming weeks when they play Oregon and USC. Colorado State can't do it. They're not going to beat him. But after that, all right, now you're in the ring with people that are not just in your weight class. They might have a few pounds on you. right? So that's when we'll start to really see what it is. But I love the dude. I always,

I always have gotten a kick out of sort of who he is. And he's energized, he's energized the sport in a totally different way. Yeah, I've always been a fan too, and he wins at virtually everything he does. We'll see what happens at Oregon. The thing, if you don't, like, if you're not, if you don't dig it, like, what is it? What, what, I'd be curious, what it is. And, you know, maybe people that are, you know, old school or whatever. I mean, stuff always kind of feels like it's kind of coded to me. Like, you know, is that?

What is it you really don't like? You know, but I just, I just, I've always, I've always been admired just the talent, which was one thing. But then I thought, I thought he would pivot into our business the way he did where he's, you know, he's a star doing that. And now, you know, he's a star in an ability to attract young players and give them this stage where, you know, again, it's early, but, you know, they're just guys are just showing out, you know. And how long will it continue? If it keeps going, I mean, the hype train will get just to the levels we haven't ever really received. Yeah, I don't know that I wouldn't describe it as coded. that there are people that are old school that don't like loudmouths, but loudmouths that have

consistently backed it up their entire professional life, you know, as a player and now as a coach. Like to me, that's, look, if he's going to, and by the way, loudmouth is, you know, is a subjective thing. He is, to me, very quick, very funny, quick, obviously very bright. And then on top of that, the dude just wins at everything he does and is arguably the greatest cornerback in the history of the National Football League. Well, for sure. And then he pivoted to baseball and was able to do that at the highest possible level. I just mean, I mean, anytime you say loudmouthed and it happens to be a black man,

then it can become, well, what do you mean? Well, you could, I could just, I could just, me, your point's well taken. You could just be loud mouth. I'm not saying it has any to do with you being a black guy. And there were people that framed, like, people cussing at him at the C.C.U. And did this happen to white guys? Were you joking? Like, the entire LSU Stadium, Shadding F. Nick Saban.

Of course it happened. It happens to, in college school, like, when you're at a certain level, then you're going to get the worst of it, the worst types of behavior from fans, unfortunately, comes with it. But, listen, you said it, well, he's wanted pretty much. everything. He's wanted everything he's done. And the question is how long can he win?

If they're a bold team, which is certainly a minimum they will be after winning a game last year, then flipping the roster entirely has worked at a level that the game now affords you the opportunity to do.

You know, it's kind of, it's, does it every school want to, you know, see their entire roster get flipped every year? Of course not. But I think we all understand it that the student athlete day and the idea of four years, you're going to go to school in the same place. I guess it doesn't happen. The portal and all that allows a turnaround like this.

You just need an attraction like Dionne Sanders. Excuse me, Coach Prime. Is that officially his name? Literally, like Gus, I think just kept called. I think it's just Coach Prime. Well, maybe he'll become a symbol at some point, just a symbol. You know, in thinking, exactly, in thinking about Dion, like I've always gotten the biggest kick out of Dion, and it makes me think of how much I actually miss Mike Leach and how much the sport will miss Mike Leach, you know, and what, and how an absolute quote machine and how entertaining he was. And by the way, how good of a coach he was.

That's interesting. Those aren't people you would necessarily think of as a comparative model. But, you know, Mike was an innovator and Mike was funnier than hell. And Mike didn't care what you thought, that's for sure. Did not give a shit. Yeah. No, he did not. So, by the way, I cannot.

This weekend, it's a good weekend. Week four, the weekend of September, it would be the 24th, it would be the 23rd, Saturday the 23rd. Have you seen the lineup of games? You already mentioned Colorado, Oregon on ABC. But that day features Iowa, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Colorado, Oregon, Florida State Clemson. I think UCLA and Utah play that day. You're right.

You're right. No, I was looking at them last night, and week four is great, but you know the thing that happens, Kevin, and you know as well as I do because we're old, that the weeks where you get caught looking down the road or what's coming next week is where somebody big is going to stub their toe. So who stubs their toe this weekend? Who? Yeah.

I mean, we always look for the – you look for the spot. I don't think it's Penn State because I think that – I think that this quarterback, they've got different. But you go on the road and take on an Illinois team that struggled at home with Toledo. and then got thumped at Kansas. I mean, it's the kind of spot that I think is always a little bit concerning if you're the higher-rated team, right? You go into a ranked, you're the ranked team on the road,

your first conference game, first road game. Those spots are the ones that always kind of jump out and look like maybe. Maybe that's a spot where you could get got. I think Kansas State of Missouri is a tricky spot. I think Tennessee at Florida for sure. I mean, I'm certain I'll have Florida in winners just on general principle, people, you know, there's some spots for, but, you know, there's always a spot for that. But you're right, obviously, the schedule next weekend is loaded top to bottom with teams from the same sort of, you know, same sort of space.

Yeah, the Penn State, Illinois game really stands out as does state, Missouri? By the way, our general principal games are 0-2, South Alabama and Nebraska may have been the all-time high-profile, general. principal game on Saturday. I agree. Look. Yeah. Totally agree. And I'll say, I don't know if I said it on the show or on Twitter or maybe I just thought it and didn't say it. But if you're Vegas, you better figure this shit out. Because if Vegas isn't in the business of opening up the drawer to the till for people to just come grab this full of cash, but they're going to line up and wait for you to open

the doors to fire on Colorado every week. until you figure out what the number's supposed to be. And giving them away last week at three in a game against the Nebraska team. And you gave them out, I gave them out, I'm watching the game. I mean, if Nebraska had any sort of quarterback play, the game was there to be a four-quarter close game.

If Nebraska could have figured it out, but they couldn't. But Colorado is going to win by more than three. So you better make your numbers right because, I mean, I'm sure people are lining that to fire on them this week, and why wouldn't they? Yeah, I mean, I think what they saw was they saw they were going to play a team that was really good defensively, and they played a team that basically had like four players in the

box the entire game in the opener against TCU, and they just shredded it. But they didn't account for Jeff Sims being as bad as any quarterback could possibly be in a football game, because they certainly looked like the right side through the first, through midway through the second quarter. Yeah, but then, you know, to quote the headball coach, not very good. It was not a sound performance in the quarterbacking game for the corner. No, it was a rough outfit offensively on Saturday for Nebraska.

It was. What do you make of the Terps so far? And Friday night, I mean, I was actually kind of looking forward to this when we found out that they were going to play, you know, an old ACC rival and football on Friday night, but Virginia stinks. Yeah, they're on the struggle bus for sure. I mean, here's what I'd say, and I know that yours is a show, Kevin, with massive reach here in the area. The weather's supposed to be perfect, like fall perfect.

In the 70s during the day, upper 50s at night, it's an old ACC rival. If they're good, if they're not, whatever. I believe they've sold a bunch of tickets, and I'm sure there'll be a lot of Virginia people in the building. Come to the game. You know, for a year, we know the myriad of reasons. Well, there's the Ravens, and there's the commander of time. We know there are a lot of options in it. Fine.

You could make every excuse you want to make. But you could also go buy a ticket. You can get one for not a lot of money, and you could cheer for the trips. If you're a Maryland fan and you don't get out there, then I don't know what you, what's ever going to get you out there. You know, this team, are they Ohio State or Penn State? No. They're trying to get there.

You know, these are the types of games we're getting behind them, fill in the stadium, showing some support for Lox and this team, would really help because it can be difference-making. You know, it truly can be difference-making at some point. They might need to lean on the crowd actually sticking around for four quarters. And I'm not talking to the students. I'm talking to the old. I know.

The old needs to do better here. do this every time we want there to be a bigger crowd for a game and a spot like this. And look, you and I went to, we sat in that box in Turgeon's box for the Penn State game. And when it was 21-0, we left. So let's not act like we haven't done that before. But more importantly, what do you make of the team? No, I know, I know I know I'm making this plea to call to action to the constituency, and you're asking, what do I think of the team? I really don't know how you know.

I mean, 14 to nothing to Charlotte was obviously not what anyone had in mind. The fact that the defense was a whole lot better the rest of the way, and the offense did enough to win, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to win that game, and they did ultimately fairly comfortably. And I don't know what you really learned against Virginia. I assume you'll get their best. You'll learn more in this game than you have in either of the first two. But I just don't know how to honestly answer the question

or evaluate them based on what they've seen. I think offensive line will continue to be a work in progress and the main issue. I think defensively they've got enough to be competitive. They've got skill position players. Certainly, you know, quarterbacks, receivers, and running back position that are going to give them a chance the score points.

And this week, I don't, I mean, I don't think that they're going to just blow the doors off, Virginia. And then next week you hit the road and take on Michigan State. You know, you're going to learn, you know, I'm talking about Colorado. You're going to learn more about them in the coming weeks. Well, you'll learn more about Maryland as well. Maybe to some degree beginning Friday. I mean, I just would expect Virginia to come in and play better than they have in the first two games.

All right. Thanks for doing this. Oh, you've got a double-header Monday night, so where will you be? When they have two games like that, they don't go to a venue. I'll go up to Connecticut on Monday. So the next two Mondays will actually be in the studios doing countdown for – it's a combination show for both shows. Does that make sense?

I mean, for both games, rather. And then I'll just stay there to do SportsCenter from the studio. And then the next time we're back out on the road is – Week 4, when it's the same venue, Meadowlands, it'll be the Giants and the Seahawks, who collectively played two just absolute ass games. I believe Seattle had 180 yards of offense, and the Giants had one of the singular worst performances ever. So let's hope that we get things buttoned up between now and week four. To go off to a huge ratings start, we need to continue to deliver the big numbers.

Two double-headers the next two weeks on Monday Night Football. And then by the way, just if you didn't know that Giants game in the Meadowlands, a lot of people that we know will be attending that game, including Grande, who's coming up for that game. Well, that's fantastic, have them come down on the field. Well, you know, all of those guys go to one giant game, a Monday night game, if it's at Monday, if they have a Monday night game, and they've been doing that for years. So, yeah, you'll have even more fans.

You'll have familiar fans. at that giant game. We're happy to have anyone that likes us at all. We're happy to have them a long side. All right. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks. Sounds good. We'll see you.

Scott Van Pelt, everybody. Up next, Mark Zuckerman on the extension given to Mike Rizzo. And I'll also ask Zuck about this whole Strasbourg retirement thing. That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Football season is finally here. if you're looking for a spot to watch your favorite teams battle it out, head to Do South Dockside in Navy Yard, right on the Capitol Riverfront Boardwalk

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But an exceptional menu, a real fun place to hang out for a bite to eat. Again, do South D.C.com for more information. Speaking of Nats Park, we're going to finish up with what I promised at the beginning of the show. and that is our good friend Mark Zuckerman, who covers the team for Masson Sports. You can read his stuff at massensports.com or just get it at his Twitter page at Mark Zuckerman on Twitter. So Mike Rizzo signs a multi-year contract extension. It seemed a little bit weird here, Mark, over the last month, month and a half, or maybe it's the last month at this point where Davy signed his contract extension.

we thought it was going to be Rizzo. Just tell us how the whole thing played out and your thoughts on Rizzo staying in D.C. Well, I think the order of this was a little unusual. You don't normally see the manager or coach get his deal before the GM does because the GM is part of the deal to the decision to retain a manager or coach. So the timing was a little odd. When it did happen three weeks ago, the sense I got was that well, there wasn't a deal done at that point.

They were moving towards it and still had some details to work out. According to Rizzo himself, he wanted to get David done first. He felt like that was important for the clubhouse chemistry. You didn't want a lame duck manager. And then he felt like they would get to his eventually, and he was never at all that concerned that it wouldn't get done. I was the same way. I knew even if it took a while, there were little reason to believe that they wouldn't

ultimately work something out. Now, in the interim, they made some changes to their front. office. Some scouts were let go or reassigned, and that led to some people wondering if there might be some discord there and some problems. I don't think there was anything all that out of the ordinary. I think it was probably a case of Rizzo negotiating with the Lerner family, what he was looking for, them offering what they were going to offer. I think some of that may have been, hey, we want you to make some changes. You've had a lot of people in positions for a while, and things always haven't worked out for the best.

Let's try something different, so maybe it took some time to get that done. But in the end, it made too much sense. There was no reason for him to want to go anywhere else. There was no reason for the learners to want anyone else in this position. My feeling has always been. The day they traded one Soto, I think that meant you had to give Mike Rizzo and Davey Martinez, for that matter,

several years now to go through the rebuild and see if they can pull this thing off. I don't think it would have been fair to evaluate them for their performance when you've torn down the roster and told them you need to start all over again. So two years from now, it's a different story. But for now, I think it makes all the sense in the world that both these guys should have the opportunity now to see this thing through and see if they can turn them into a winner again. Is Mike Rizzo a top 10 baseball general manager? I think so. I mean, he's the third longest tenure GM now in the sport, which is pretty amazing. Who's been longer?

Cashman. Who else? Brian Cashman in New York and John Moseilic in St. Louis are the only two. Kenny Williams with the White Sox had been there longer. He was just fired a few weeks ago, actually. So in this business, it's very rare to have this opportunity. And I think even rarer for someone to build a team up once, win a World Series, then tear it all down, and be given the opportunity to do it all over again.

those other guys, you know, the Yankees are pretty much always expecting to be competitive. Same for the Cardinals. Now, this year, the Cardinals have fallen apart, and Moseilic may be in a position for the first time to have to rebuild. So I think Rizzo is pretty unique in that regard. Now, I think there are people in the sport that would say he's a little too old school, and there are a lot of young up-and-comers with backgrounds that aren't even in baseball, but it's finance and in analytics and all those things who are the new wave of this. He is kind of a relic in that his background is all scouting.

and came up through the ranks that way and has stood a test of time as a 62-year-old still doing this job. So I think there are some that would say he's not the future. That's not the way that most teams are going. But I think what he's accomplished is right up there with anyone. And, you know, this is the conversation for another day. But if he does see this thing through, let's say they do build a winner again, maybe even go to a win another World Series, it's a pretty interesting case for him for Cooperstown someday. Yeah, right?

He does it. A huge. a huge if. I'm not I know, I know, but how many general managers in the history of the sport have done it twice with completely different rosters and managers? Right, exactly. And not going

different teams. You've had guys who've gone to different teams and won, but with the same team and like I said, to have the opportunity to build a winner, then tear it down and start all over again. It's pretty unique, I think, in the sport. Yeah, I mean, let's pump the brakes because he hasn't done it yet, and he's not anywhere

near there right now. By the way, as it relates to him, and I had him on the podcast maybe a month or so ago, I like him a lot. Of the executives in town that I know or have had relationships with over the years, he's one of my favorite people, because he's just genuine and he is a competitive grinder. You know, it's just the way he is kind of built. And by the way, he loves this city. You know, he's not from here. He's from the Midwest, and he loves this city. But what do you think he hurt him more? And I'm not talking about what they got back in return or how it will be judged down the road because we can't even talk about Soto now. Trading Harper or trading Soto? Oh, boy. I think they both hurt, obviously, for good reason. I think the Harper one probably was

softened by knowing that you had a lot of really good talent already, and obviously they won a World Series the next year. So, you know, not to say that they didn't want to keep Harper that he could have been a part of that, but I think he, you know, at least understood, okay, we're still in good shape, in part because of Soto, in fact. The trade of Soto, I think, was really hard because, number one, this is a kid they found in the Dominican Republic, Johnny Dupuglia, who is no longer with them, by the way, their international scouting

director for a long time. They turned him very quickly into not just a big leaguer, but an elite all-time big leaguer who performed at an incredible level right from the start, helped them win a World Series, and then so early on, you know, with three years almost ago before he could have a free agent, having to deal him for prospects, I think that was a really bitter pill for him to swallow. I think he knew in the end that it made sense from a baseball standpoint, but I think he think personally it heard him because this is a once in a lifetime player that they discovered, you know, Bryce Harper was going to go number one that year, no matter who had that pick. It's not like it was hard to make that decision.

They had to find Juan Soto and turn him into the player that he was, and then to have to let him go the way they did, I think that would probably, you know, beat down, hurt him a little bit more. One of the other reasons I wanted to have you on today is I just would like you, who covers the team on a daily basis, to explain to me and everybody else. out there listening why the Stephen Strasbourg retirement thing that was supposed to happen here recently hit his snag. Oh, boy, yeah, there's a lot to this one as well. And Rizzo talked about it. He was asked about it. That is a press conference announced a deal. Basically, let's go backwards here a little bit. Over the winter, last winter, I was told that Strasbourg was essentially feeling fine and doing

well and wanted to give it essentially one more try to pitch. And the understanding was that if he got to a point that he started throwing off a mound and it just wasn't working, he knew that was probably the end of the road. And sure enough, that's what happened. Didn't even make it to spring training and then we found out the first day of spring training what had happened. So I really do believe from that moment, he knew and the team knew that his career was over. Now, the problem is it's not as simple as just announcing that and deciding that. If you are a major league player and you voluntarily decide to retire, you forfeit the rest of your contract. I know baseball contracts are guaranteed, but you can't just walk away whenever you want and expect to be paid everything your own.

If he had announced the day after he signed his contract that he was retiring, he wouldn't deserve that money. You can't do that. So he couldn't just say, okay, I'm done. done. Now, there's contingencies in there if you suffer debilitating injury and can no longer perform, which is pretty clearly what has happened to him, that you can work things out with the team and with the league to make sure that you get paid. It's a complicated process. The sense I got was that three weeks ago, whatever it is now, the word got out. He had let them know they had worked this out and said, okay, he's done playing, and we've probably figured out whatever the financial aspects of this all are, and so we're going to start to make plans for a press conference.

Now, I think what was maybe mistakenly assumed at that point was that they already did have a deal in place of how they were going to work this out, whether it was him sacrificing some of the salary or whether it was just them spreading it out, you know, to lessen the blow of it, apparently that had not happened, not to the full extent. And Major League Baseball is involved. There is a whole process through the CBA that you have to go through for all this. And so while there was a tentative plan for a press conference this past Saturday, it was never officially said it was going to happen.

Anytime I and the rest of us would ask about it, they said, well, you know, leave that date open, but don't put it in stone. It's not for sure. And then I think about two days prior, we got the word like, no, it's actually. not happening yet. Now, I do think it will happen at some point. It's a complicated process. I think the back and forth, what you've seen both publicly said and privately said from both sides of the equation, and I'm not talking about Stephen here, I'm talking about Scott Forrest, and then the statement that Mark Lerner put out has made it look kind of nasty and shows that

there is a fight over some money, or at least the process of how they're going to decide how much he gets and how much they spread it out over. That's unfortunate. They all, I think, realize that now how that has come across. I do think ultimately they will figure something out. He's not going to attempt to pitch again. He's not coming to spring training and trying to pitch again. They all know that is not the case.

But it's going to take a little while longer for them to actually finalize whatever the terms of this agreement are going to be. Yeah, for those that missed it, because I read this over the weekend, and there was just too much football to kind of discuss it early in the week. But Mark Lerner had some interesting statements about all of this. He, you know, he said some nice things. Steven Strasbourg is and always will be an important part of the Nationals franchise. We support him in any decision that he makes and will ensure that he receives what is due to him.

It's regrettable that private discussions have been made public through anonymous sources, attempting to negotiate through the media. And then he said the following. It is our hope that ongoing conversations remain private out of respect for the individuals involved. Until then, we look forward to seeing Stephen when we report to spring training. I mean, that is a little bit of a threatening statement there.

It's like either get it together or we'll see in spring training. be ready to play. Yeah, that was the way I interpreted. I think that's the way everybody interpreted. And, you know, think of it in these terms. It's essentially a threat. Or it appears as a threat. Right.

Okay, fine. You don't want to sacrifice any of the money. You don't want to change the terms of your contract. Well, then you have to live up to your part of the contract, and that means you have to report to training and continue your rehab, quote, unquote, and attempt to pitch again. Now, deep down, nobody ever thought that would happen. and I was surprised at that line.

I think a lot of people were taken aback. Now, Mike Rizzo today, both with us and then when he was on with the junkies in the morning, tried to walk that back and say, that's not at all what Mark Ler meant. He meant that he wants Stephen to still continue to be a part of the team and work with young players the way that Ryan Zimmerman has in retirement and all that. Well, that may be true. It's not exactly Stephen's personality to be somebody who's going to be around a lot and very visible in retirement. Maybe he will.

I would be a little surprised by that. Even if that's all true, the wording of that statement, which I'm sure was not just slapped together. That was read over by many people, probably a lawyer included. That seemed to be not what they were trying to say and could have been said a lot better if that's truly what you meant. I think that was kind of a threat to Scott Boers and some frustration with what I assume they believe Scott Boers leaking things out about these negotiations and being frustrated with the quote-unquote cancellation of the press conference. And so that that's where it got nasty. I hope that it doesn't damage their relationship with Strasbourg.

It shouldn't. They've been too strong with each other for too long. I hope the cooler has prevailed here. But that statement definitely raised a lot of high prows around the sport. And I think really caught people off guard because it's so hard. out of character for Mark Lerner to make any kind of statement, publicly let alone something like that. So just real quickly, how much is left on his $245 million deal?

How much do they owe him? After this year, it's three years and about $105. So three years and $105 million. Right. I mean, if they're going to pay him the rest of it, what do they want? Do they want to spread it out over a longer period of time and defer it for longer? What exactly is the negotiation between Strasbourg and the team over what is owed Strasbourg? Because his career is ending because of a debilitating injury.

It's not retirement. Right. Right. And let's also make clear that the team could have taken out an insurance policy, chose not to. That's very cost prohibitive. And there's reasons why they didn't do it. If they did, this isn't really an issue anymore because insurance is going to cover

the majority of that, but they did not, so they're on the hook for the money. But, yeah, my sense was that their preference would be to try to get them to agree to space it out, and that maybe over time it actually decreases the value of the total value of it all. So that would maybe be the compromise. I don't think anybody really felt like he was going to sacrifice money or give any of the back. But let's be clear, this is pretty unprecedented. There have been other players who've been forced into retirement early, who had long-term deals, most of them were maybe a year left to go, like Chris Davis with the Orioles. Prince Fielder had a similar situation. I remember years ago when I first started working here, Albert Bell had a degenerative hip

and had to retire early. The Orioles had insurance on his contract out, so it didn't really matter. So this is an odd situation to say the least. And here's the key point of all. They need to resolve something and relatively soon because Stephen has spent the whole year on the 60-day IL, which is not a problem. But when the season ends, everybody comes off the IL and has to be placed on the 40-man roster for the entire winter. They cannot afford to waste a spot on him all winter, a spot that would go to a prospect or a free agent or someone else.

Those are precious spots over the course of the off-season. They cannot afford to waste a spot on that. So they do need to figure out something relatively soon. They can't just wait for three years and keep them stashed on the IL all this time. That would not do the nationals any good. Do most teams take out an insurance policy on big contracts like that? I think it was more common years ago.

I think it's less so now. What I was told about this months ago when I asked about it was kind of starting to crop up was it costs so much. The premiums are so high. What are the premiums, do you know? Like potentially $10 million plus. That's what we're talking about. In addition to the contract.

Now, in the end, would have been better to get that, sure. But you don't know that. And the other thing I was told is a lot of times the insurance companies won't even insure the part of the body that it would be important here, like his arm. Like the most risky. And it might just be, well, we'll insure him if he gets into a motorcycle accident, breaks his leg, something like that. So it's not as easy as it sounds. I know you want to say, oh, just take out the... insurance. What I was told is it's not as simple as that sounds. I hope that this gets resolved in a way

where Steven Strasbourg can be honored for being the, you know, the clutch player and the postseason pitcher that he was for this franchise. I know we've talked about this previously, but he, I mean, the idea that somehow Stephen Strasbourg's career fell short. of what people thought it would be, maybe in terms of Cy Young's and regular season, but his pitching in the postseason is what this franchise has as it's history now. I mean, at the top of the list is game six in Houston, you know, is the game, you know,

at Wrigley in the postseason. He's the guy. He came through more than Scher did in the postseason. And I hope that they figure this thing out and it ends amicably so that he can be honored in the right kind of way? Yeah, I believe it will. I think we'll see something probably next year where they have an official number retirement ceremony and 37 will go up there alongside number 11.

I mean, look, everyone's favorite player in national history is probably Zimmerman for good reason. The best player in national history is probably Max Scherzer, who is going to be a Hall of Famer and most likely have a curly W on him. his cap. But I think there's a case that Stephen is the most important player in national history. He came about at a time when they needed somebody like that to change the narrative of the franchise to turn them into a team that was actually on the national radar to then live up to all the hype and then perform, as you just said, in the biggest moments, they don't win a World Series

without him. So I do believe he is the most important player, and I think ultimately probably sometime next year as things calm down here. They will do that and he will be honored. And I do believe that fans understand what he meant to them and won't be looking at the contract or the times he didn't pitch. I think they ultimately understand just how important and what he meant to the franchise and they'll honor him as such. I wouldn't sell in the conversation of the greatest player to ever play for the franchise.

I'm talking about here in Washington's second go-round, the Expos, this team. Bryce Harper short in that conversation. He had an MVP. He had another phenomenal season. He was the rookie of the year, right? I think he was. And he's on a Hall of Fame track now. No doubt.

And he was their, you know, along with Strasbourg in those early playoff years, he was a clutch performer. I mean, that series against the Giants, when they couldn't generate anything offensively, he was their lone offensive player. He was the player that generated, I think, the most. I think. Maybe Rendon had a couple of hits in that series, but they couldn't generate anything other than what Harper did. Yeah, no, you're right. It was the two of them and nobody else, and Harper was even better than Rendon hitting bombs off Hunter Strickland into McCovey Cove. So, no, you're right. And I think the difference there, and unfortunate, and it goes back what we're talking about earlier. If and when Bryce goes into the Hall of Fame, he's going to be wearing a Phillies cap.

Yeah, unfortunately. Unfortunately. Last thing real quickly. Tell us about Jackson Rutledge, who's going to make his pitching debut tonight for the Nats. He was their first round pick in 2019, 17th overall. It's been a little slower path to the big leagues for him. He had some injuries. He didn't pitch especially well for a few years in the minor. So it is kind of an organizational win for him to finally prove that he was ready for this. And he earned it, working his way up the ladder, double A and AAA this year. He's not, the top pitching prospect. This isn't Cavali's debut, certainly not Strausberg's debut, anything like that, but a big

tall, six-foot-eight right-hander with good stuff, who can be a part of this in the future, and if nothing else, you know, they went there from pretty much Anthony Rendon in 2011 until maybe now Rutledge in 2019, where none of their top first-round picks

really amounted to much, either for them or for other organizations. Lucas Giolyto did a little bit for the White Sox before his career kind of fell apart as well. They need more success stories from their own draft picks who've developed through their own system. They've got a couple of the last few years who they believe are going to do that. Rutledge is a chance to also rectify that and show that they do know how to scout and develop and turn guys into quality big leaguers. Thank you for doing this as always. It's much appreciated. My pleasure, Kevin. Any time.

All right, that is it for the day back tomorrow with Tommy. With two out, nobody on, here's Bregman, who has an infield hit and a home run. This one off the end of the bat, Strasbourg, has taken his team through eight. What a night for the 31-year-old right-hander, Stephen Strasbourg. Ninth inning now, game six, Nationals bat up three.