The Kevin Sheehan Show - A Conversation w/London Fletcher

Episode Date: September 2, 2022

The show today features three interviews highlighted by Kevin's conversation with London Fletcher. London talked about his career while revealing a few things that many of you will be surprised by. He also previewed the upcoming inaugural season for the Washington Commanders. He defended Dan Snyder talking about his relationship with the owner and more. After London, ESPN's "Stanford Steve" Coughlin jumped on to talk College Football which includes a very surprising College Football Playoff pick. Marc Sterne called in from the US Open in New York to talk Serena Williams to finish up the show. Kevin also opened the show with some thoughts on the games last night, some breaking news on Kam Curl, and his College Football "Smell Test" picks for this weekend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Three interviews on this show today, on this Friday, September 2nd, entering the first full college football weekend of the year. Yeah, three interviews.

That's rare for this podcast. But I just spoke moments ago with London Fletcher. And I think you are going to really enjoy this conversation with London. He had to do it early. He was heading out to the golf course. He's a big-time golfer. But I think you're going to hear London say some things that I at least haven't heard before, and I thought were pretty revealing.

He'll talk about his career in a way that maybe he hasn't so publicly in the past. You'll hear him discuss the franchise of the three that he played for, Washington, Buffalo, and St. Louis, the Rams in St. Louis, that he feels. most associated with. He talked about Dan Snyder in this interview. He discussed what happened with Albert Hainsworth. He was here when Al

got here. And of course he gave me his thoughts about this year's upcoming team. I won't give it away, but he's more optimistic than most of you are. I really enjoyed this interview with him. I think you will too. It's coming up

in a few minutes. Remember, London is now part of the radio crew with Bram Weinstein and Julie Donaldson. But that's coming up. And then following London, Stanford Steve from Scott Van Pelt's show. Stanford Steve's a good friend of mine. We're going to talk college football not only in terms of the upcoming season, but he will give some of his picks for the weekend as well.

And then one of my favorite people in my life, Mark Stern, who produces Tony's show, of course, is Nigel. Mark covers the U.S. Open for the tour, actually. He's got a podcast called Courtside at the U.S. Open. He's been in New York all week. He has been there for both of the Serena Williams matches so far, and he'll be there for tonight's Serena Williams' third round match. So we will talk to Mark as well.

Smell test coming up in this opening segment, got off to a 1-0 start last night with Central Michigan, more on that opening night win coming up when I get to the smell test. This show today is brought to you in part by MyBooky. Use my promo code Kevin DC when you go to MyBooky.ag or MyBooky.com, and you'll get your initial deposit doubled. All of your football betting needs met with fair lines, fair pricing, and a double deposit bonus that most places don't offer.

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All right. Before we get to the London Fletcher, Stanford, Steve, and Mark Stern in interviews, I wanted to mention a few things. Number one is college football from last night. Two excellent games last night. The return of the backyard brawl goes to Pitt 3831 over West Virginia. It was a 56-yard pick-six return with three minutes to go that won it for Pitt. By the way, it was a terrible drop by the West Virginia receiver. The ball went right through his hands, got returned for a touchdown, and gave Pitt a 3831 lead. West Virginia had a chance at the end.

A fourth and 16 throw to the Pitt one-yard line was reviewed and called incomplete. Everybody seemed to agree with the call on that. If you were watching the game, maybe you did too, I actually thought it was a catch. I thought he got his arm under the ball, even though it did touch the ground. I don't think he ever lost control of it, the receiver. Anyway, before the game got to that point, there were a couple of big decisions. The biggest being a fourth and one that West Virginia had, with roughly six minutes to go in the game, in Pitt territory, up seven.

They had been ramming the ball down Pitt's throats with their running game. And for some reason, Neil Brown decided to punt it with fourth and one with a seven-point lead at the Pitt 48-yard line. Again, they rushed the ball down Pitt's throat to the tune of 5.6 yards per carry. They had scored on their previous two drives on long drives, highlight, by their ability to run the football. That was a weak decision by the West Virginia coach. They were probably in position to run the clock down to something inside two minutes, and at worst come away with a field goal for a 10-point lead.

Instead, Pitt took over after the punt at their own eight-yard line, went 92 yards to tie the game, and then got the pick six, the interception return to win the game. One thing about this game, the same goes. for Penn State and Purdue, the second game I'm going to mention here in a moment. That game was nearly four hours long. If it had gone to overtime, it would have probably been a four and a half to five hour game. I've mentioned for years that I love college football. In many ways, I really prefer Saturdays to Sundays. I love the NFL. Don't get me wrong, but I love college football. I

love everything about it. But the one criticism I've had is the games are too long. I mean, these games last close to four hours and sometimes longer. And there's one rule change that would make a significant difference, and that is don't stop the clock after first downs to move the chains. There are too many explosive plays in college football, which leads, by the way, to much higher scoring games, which just by the nature of higher scoring games, games are going to be longer because you're going to have more clock stoppages with scores. But they add to that by stopping the clock, at least for a few seconds, sometimes longer, to move the chains after first downs. They should stop that. Now, to keep the tradition of the college game of having the clock stop

after a first down, you know, keep it for the final two minutes of the game. You know, let the clock stop after a first down in the final two minutes of a game. But all game long just adds to the length of the football game. And that game last night was four hours. The other great game last night was Penn State and Purdue. Purdue was the team. Actually, many believed, to be the better team coming in last night. They were a three and a half point underdog. But Penn State wasn't ranked preseason this year. I don't want to overshadow. I don't want to overshadow. Penn State quarterback Sean Clifford's redemption drive at the end of the game. After throwing a terrible ball that got returned for a touchdown,

you had a pick six in that game as well that gave Purdue a 3,1,28 lead with just over eight minutes left. Clifford and Penn State had three chances with the ball after the pick six, did nothing on the first two drives. And then with one final chance, Penn State, by the way, at that moment, getting ready to throw Clifford to the wolves. With just over two minutes to go, third chance down 3128, he leads an 80-yard drive going 6-for-7, 72 yards, and the winning touchdown pass from 10 yards out.

He was 14 of 30 before that final drive, went 6-4-7 for 72 of the 80-covered yards, and was flawless on Penn State's final drive, and they get the win 35-31. Purdue coach Jeff Brom criticized heavily after the game for his offensive play calling, the team's offensive play calling. After they got to pick six for a 31-28 lead midway through the fourth quarter, they got the ball back twice and did nothing with it. But worse than that, they didn't burn any clock. The first time they got the ball back was with about six and a half to go.

The second time with about four and a half to go. Up three, they ran the ball one time on 14 snaps once. So they didn't burn much clock. They didn't force Penn State to take timeouts, and they left too much time for Penn State. So Jeff Brom was being just torched last night on Twitter. I have a slightly different take. Certainly, you know, with a three-point lead and you're down to the last six-plus minutes in the game,

you'd like to take some clock off, burn the clock, and end up with some points. I think it's a bit nitpicky because Purdue could not run the football last night against Penn State. The way they had moved the football and scored points, really, other than the pick six, was through the air. Aiden O'Donnell, their quarterback, threw for 356. they only ran it for 70 yards. So Bram, I think, was going with what he thought was their best chance to move the sticks and keep the ball and potentially score again. They just didn't execute.

You know, it's easy to look at that and say, you've got the lead, you get the ball back two times in the final six minutes, and you basically burnt a total of like a minute and a half or two minutes of clock time. And you threw it, you know, 13 times and ran it once. I get it. I mean, a little bit more balance at least would have been called for, but they weren't running the football against Penn State. They were struggling to run the football in that game, and they threw it pretty effectively. In fact, the Iowa transfer, the wide receiver Charlie Jones, who played with Aidan O'Connell. I said O'Donnell before I meant O'Connell. You know, same Irish background, I'm sure. But Aidan O'Connell,

and Charlie Jones had played together in grade school, and Jones had 12 catches for 153 yards in his first game with Purdue. So again, nitpicking a bit to just crush Jeff Brom, I think that's my personal view, because I don't know that running the football would have done anything than just force Penn State to use their timeouts and then would have run more clock. But Penn State's winning touchdown drive happened in a minute,

it. So anyway, two really good games last night. Really, really good football games to open up the first Thursday night of college football. The second thing I wanted to get to here in the open of the show, some commander's news. Ben Standing reporting this morning that Cam Curl has an injured thumb that may have required surgery. So his right arm was in a sling yesterday, and it could have been a cast. Rivera was asked to describe the injury to Camp Curle, and he said, I'm not going to do that. I don't have to do it until next Wednesday when we put the injury report out. So good for him. He doesn't need to talk about that. Ben wrote that it's unclear when Curl was injured because he didn't play in the Baltimore game.

So it must have happened sometime during practice earlier this week. If he misses some action, Derek Forrest is likely the replacement for him. So look for some news on that next week. Maybe we'll get something before Ron Rivera speaks on Wednesday, but I'm going to guess we won't know for sure until that first injury report comes out. All right, the last thing I want to get to here in the open to the show. is the first smell test of this football season. Let's get to that.

Kevin looks where the John Q Public is putting their cash and does the opposite. It's time for the smell test. The smell test off to a 1 and 0 start wasn't easy. I had to work to get it last night with Central Michigan plus the 22. They were down 51 to 15 early in the third quarter. I had chalked it up as a loss, as many of you had as well because you tweeted me to tell me what a shitty start I had gotten you off to. I am accepting all apologies. No, I chalked it up as a loss too. I thought it was over. They outscored Oklahoma State's backups 29 to 7. They actually had the ball back down 14 with like two and a half to go trying to win the damn thing, trying to get back into it. I knew with their quarterback and running back and their offensive group coming back in a well-coached team that they would be able to score and they will score this year.

And the game started off competitively and then it got sideways. I didn't think it had a chance, but we will take it. You know, they don't draw a picture on your betting ticket on how it got done. It's either a winner or a loss and last night was a win, a one-and-o start to smell test year number 17. Yeah, 17th year of doing this smell test. It started all the way back when I was doing a show with John Riggins and Gary Braun. May have started the year before that, actually. But anyway, I have had 11 winning seasons, five losing seasons. One of those losing seasons was last year. I was 90, 92, and 6 for the entire football season, two games under 500. Weird year because a lot of the people that handicap the way I do and pick games the way I do, sort of an anti-public contrarian philosophy, which now it seems that everybody has.

But, you know, it was novel 17 years ago. A lot of those guys, including my very good friend Scott Van Pelt, did very well. He finished 19 games over 500 with the picks on his show. I had so many games every week that sort of fit the model. and then for some reason I picked the wrong ones and I excluded a lot of those that ended up winning. I personally didn't have a terrible year gambling, but the smell test didn't do exceptionally well.

But two games under 500, you know, at least you didn't get your ass kicked. Anyway, for those of you that don't know, yeah, it's a bit of an anti-public contrarian zinging when everybody else is zagging strategy. It incorporates definitely, some information that I've had access to for many, many years for reasons I will not talk about. But yeah, I get information every week during football season in particular as to where a lot of the super sharp action.

And there isn't a lot of what you would call super sharp betters. You know, a lot of people don't really understand that. There are some that are, you know, relatively speaking feared by books. but there aren't a lot of those people. But anyway, it's a combination of all that that leads to, you know, somewhere between, I don't know, four and 15 selections each week. I don't have any selections for tonight. I like two games personally that I'm going to play.

I like TCU with Sunny Dykes as the new coach to really amp it up offensively. They're laying 14 at Colorado. I think Colorado stinks. And I also like a little bit tonight, not as much as I like TCU, but I like Illinois a little bit, getting a point in a half at Indiana. I'm a big Brett Bielma fan. I think he's going to get it done at Illinois. I think they will be significantly better at football than they've been in recent years.

But those are not official plays. The official plays are all Saturday games. I don't have a Sunday game. I don't have the Sunday night game and I don't have the Monday night game in this. smell test. Clemson plays Georgia Tech on Labor Day night, and the Sunday night game is LSU and Florida State. I don't have a selection on either one of those games. If that changes, I'll let you know. But I have eight selections for tomorrow Saturday, which will make it nine total in the opening weekend. Let's start with App State at home against North Carolina. This is now the post-Sam Howell era at

North Carolina, and I think they're going to struggle this year. App State is a team that the public really doesn't know much about, even though they actually were in a bowl game last year. They are laying a point and a half at home against Carolina. I'll take App State. I would play that sooner rather than later. There's been sharp money moving this line upward. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if by kick off, App State's two, two and a half, three. I am playing it right now as I am recording this podcast at App State minus one and a half. There's an early start in the Rose Bowl tomorrow, 1130 a.m. local time for UCLA and Bowling Green. UCLA is one of the biggest public plays on the board tomorrow for some reason.

They're laying 23 and a half. I'll take the team from back east or from the Midwest getting 23 and a half. getting 23 and a half against a team that I think has a chance to be a good team in the PAC 12 this year. But I'll take Bowling Green plus the 23 and a half. We're going to buy some key half points as we have the last two years. But I'll leave that at 23 and a half and not buy the half point to 24. I may regret that. Cincinnati and Arkansas, two ranked teams.

I think Cincinnati comes in ranked 22nd, Arkansas 23rd. Cincinnati losing all those players off that final four team, including their quarterback Desmond Ritter, but they are well coached. They are well stocked. And I think they've got a chance to win this game outright in Fayetteville tomorrow afternoon. The public is backing Arkansas. I'll take Cincinnati by the half point at plus seven. UTSA is home against Houston. Houston's ranked 25th in the country. I know I've had UTSA several times over the last several years. It doesn't always work out. but Houston's another major public play tomorrow. I'll take UTSA. That's University of Texas, San Antonio. I'll take them plus the four. BYU is coming south tomorrow in the heat of South Florida to play USF.

Tough for a mountain region team coming east and facing that heat and humidity. USF can score a little bit. They're catching a short number, 11 and a half. perceived as short by the public. BYU was one of my favorite teams last year to bet on. And they had that running back, Tyler Alger, who's in Atlanta, who I think is going to be outstanding. I'll take USF plus the 11 and a half.

One of the best games of the day tomorrow comes tomorrow night at 7 o'clock. In the swamp, Florida, getting three now. If it's two and a half where you are, that's fine. I'm buying the half point. I'm going to take the gators at home plus the three. against eighth ranked Utah, a team that some are picking to make the final four this year. That is a big time opener, I think on the SPN tomorrow night at 7 o'clock. Give me the Gators plus the 7.

Miami of Ohio is getting 16 tomorrow in Lexington against 21st ranked Kentucky and Mr. Levis at quarterback. I'll take Miami of Ohio plus 16. they're a major, major anti-public side. Lastly, I'm going to take Georgia State at South Carolina getting 12 and a half. Sean Elliott's done a good job at Georgia State. He was at South Carolina for many years. South Carolina coming off, you know, a decent season, certainly last year that finished

up with that bowl win over North Carolina. And so Shane Beamer doing a really nice job there. But I think the line's short. The public does, too. They're playing the game, Cox. I'll take Georgia State plus the 13. So there you go. Last night we had Central Michigan plus 22 winner.

Tomorrow, Appalachian State minus a point and a half. Bowling Green plus 23.5. Cincinnati plus 7. UTSA plus 4, USF plus 11 and a half, Florida plus 3, Miami of Ohio plus 16, and Georgia State plus 13. very much in line with my philosophy of not playing many favorites. All underdogs in week one.

Good luck for entertainment purposes only up next. My conversation with London Fletcher right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. Jumping on the podcast right now is one of the greatest linebackers in Washington franchise history. London Fletcher is with us. London is in the team's radio booth this year, calling games with Bram and Julie, first year calling games. And yesterday, the team announced, and not surprisingly, that he was one of the next 10 added to the team's 90 greatest players of all time. I mean, you were a total no-brainer.

Everybody knew you were going to be in. I'm curious, an answer as directly and honestly as you can. Do you consider yourself more of a ram where you won a Super Bowl, a Buffalo Bill where you played for several years, or a Washington Redskin? I'll answer it this way. I believe Bergeny and gold. Is that answer your question? That answers it. Even though you won a Super Bowl as a very young player in St. Louis? Yeah, you know, that's part of my legacy, part of my history, was being a champion that will always be. be a part of me, that special team that we had in 99 and for the Rams of giving me an opportunity when I came out of college at John Carroll University.

There's a Division III player being able to make their team and being part of that Super Bowl winning team. But I went to Buffalo for five years, played in St. Louis for four, and I finished my last seven in Washington. And the way the organization has treated me and treated me during my time there, I I'm a debt of gratitude to them to Mr. Snyder and his wife, Tonya, and the organization as a whole. And that's why I believe Burgundy and Gold. They treated me the best out of all the organizations that I play for.

You know, it's funny because your name comes up often in different, you know, ways. You're obviously, you know, you're an Iron Man for this organization. You're the only one of only five players in NFL history to play in over 200, 150 consecutive games. You hold the record for consecutive starts at the linebacker position. Do you ever feel that your career has been underrated? Absolutely. Yeah, without a doubt, there's no question that my career was underrated while I was playing and, you know, kind of even overlooked since I've retired in terms of Hall of Fame, battling and honors and things like that. During my time,

time that I was playing, there were numerous times. I only made four pro bowls, but when you look at the numbers that I put up, it's mind-boggling that I only have four pro-boes and only two all-pros on my career resume. It just doesn't make sense. You can't put up the type of numbers that I put up and only have four pro-boes and two second-team R-pros. It just doesn't make sense, other than the fact that people just overlooked me. And it was a popularity contest, a lot of those times. So, you know, just the way it is, the way it goes. One of the more popular players in terms of nationally.

My teams and my teammates, they all appreciated what I did. So guys who competed against me, they know what I brought to the table and what they were going to be dealing with. And if they didn't get me blocked, it was going to be a long day for them. And also the things that I can do in coverage and also from a leadership standpoint with my team and my defenses. but without a doubt out, my career was overlooked and underrated, and it should be mentioned as one of the greatest

in NFL history at the lineback position. You know, it's funny, you did. You only had four Pro Bowls. They were all in Washington. You made two all-pro second teams, both times in Washington in 2011 and 2012. But you were like a Pro Bowl alternate like 58 times or something. I'm exaggerating.

But you were like a Pro Bowl alternate, I think 11 or 12 times before you finally made your first Pro Bowl at the age of 34, which you had been a tackling machine in the league for many years. You know, going back to St. Louis and then through Buffalo, and it took that long. I don't know, two or three years ago, I remember when you retired a while back, and then we were. we had the conversation then, and we had a conversation a few years ago, and I remember putting your numbers up against like Ray Lewis, you know, somebody who's considered to be in the conversation of the greatest middle linebacker in the history of the game. Other than the all pros and the pro bowls, statistically, you guys are pretty dead even. I don't know, have you gone through that process of comparing yourself statistically to other great players at your position or not?

I haven't gone through the process, but there have been people who have gone through the process. I've seen the thing on social media. I've seen also in greater detail where a couple of people have actually written articles putting myself up, not only against Ray, but all the middle linebackers of my era and showing, you know, where we stack up statistically. and it's a race the only one whose numbers are better than mine and you know over for as a whole you know when you look at from all the numbers standpoint but the rest of the guys they they don't they don't no they pale in comparison yeah they fail experience but some of those guys are already in the hall of fame and again it's just part of it it was I put it like this you know when you play at st. Louis a smaller market you play in buffalo another small market is tough for a defensive guy to get that recognition. Off of the guys, you're going to get a lot more recognition because you can put up numbers

and, you know, the touchdowns and highlight plays. Those are guys stand out a lot more. Those are ones that will be highlighted and run on the different shows nationally. But when you're a defensive guy, you're playing in those smart markets. It's just tough to get that recognition nationally. and it wasn't until I came to Washington and played in that big market that all of a sudden I made the pro bowl

and I'll tell you this, Kevin, I didn't I was a great player even before I came to Washington. I put up numbers before I came to Washington. So, you know, it wasn't like all of a sudden got there and it was like, man, I turned into some other player. No, I was, I was a beast in St. Louis. I was a beast in, in Buffalo.

It's just, you know, the market kind of dictated me not getting that attention that I deserved. I think that, you know, a small market team that wins, you know, there's not an issue. I think more of the issue, this would be my opinion, is that after early in your career in your second year in the league winning a Super Bowl and being a significant part of that Super Bowl winning team with the Rams that beat the Titans, you just weren't on enough teams that were contenders.

I mean, you weren't on any that was a legitimate contender in one. Washington or Buffalo? Well, I would say this in terms of we had great defenses, though. I played on great defenses. And Buffalo, I played on some defense that were top two in the league. There were number two ranked defense in the National Football League a couple times. So it wasn't like defensively, we had some players, and I was a part of that unit, and they did some great things.

But my defense is the first three years in Washington. and we're top ten every year. You know, we're top ten. I think we went fourth, eighth, and tenth. So, you know, we put up, we put up numbers from a defensive standpoint. Again, you mentioned that being in the smart market, if you win consistently makes things a lot easier for you. We didn't, in Buffalo, tell you what we won.

We won the Super Bowl. So that helped elevate, especially our offense was highlighted so much. It kind of overshadowed. what we were able to do from a defensive standpoint. We're in Buffalo. We didn't win. We didn't make a playoff. Didn't make the playoffs.

But defensively, oh, man, it's going to be a long day for you going against some of those defense that we had in Buffalo. And then Washington, you know, I made the provost because, again, it's a bigger market. We're playing in more national games. People are seeing what I'm able to do and seeing what I was doing. And, you know, that's why I was able to finally make breakthrough. You know, your first year, you were a Gibbs brought in player in 2007. And so you got one year with Greg Williams, one year, obviously a tragic year, your first year in Washington, with Sean's passing. I think that was the last really good defensive team that we had. I think that 2007 team was the last really good defensive team that we've had. Because since you retired, there have been some horrendous, defensive teams over the last, you know, seven, eight, nine years. But I thought that 2007 defense that you

played on here was, do you agree that of the teams you played on here? Do you think that was the best defensive team or not? I would say 2007 and, you know, when you had Sean, obviously, you know, his ability to just erase so many different things back on the back end. That was probably the best, I would agree with you from a standpoint now. The 2008 team, statistically, we ranked higher than 2017. I think 2008 we may have been 8th. In 2008, I believe we were probably four. So we actually bet statistically, and, you know, there's a lot of different variables that

are coming in and played. But, you know, with that 2018 didn't have Sean. So it's just, heck, if you throw him into the mix, you know, may have been a number one ranked defense instead of number four. So, you know, from a talent standpoint to the old seven team definitely was the, I would say, probably the

best. Yeah, 2008, too, right, was the year that DeAngelo got picked up halfway through the season. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right about that. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah, he did. So that changed, that changed the dynamics as well, having, have a

haul, and he came in the last eight games, and he played lockdown. corner at the cornerback position. He really came in, you know, just was ultra-focused and really, I mean, for him to fit in in that group and that team. And it wasn't, our, our defensive

meeting room, we, there were no punches pulled in there. Yeah. He was coordinator Greg Flod. So he came in and, you know, he became, you know, our top corner in, in a short period of time. But, you know, I had Greg

Williams, who were my head coached, coach in Buffalo. So I had spent several years with him as a coach, and then he was my defensive coordinator that one year in 07, you know, another great defensive coordinator. You know what I'm also reminded of thinking about those teams, the 07-08, and then the team that followed, and Greg Blasch was the defensive coordinators, you were there for the signing of Albert Hainsworth and then the deterioration of the relationship between Albert Hainsworth and the team. What was that like to be a part of that? You know, it was very disappointed because from a talent standpoint,

and pure talent standpoint, Albert was one of the most physically gifted guys, you know, that I've ever lined up with. And I've been on the team with Hall of Famers and, you know, future Hall of Famers. And just from a pure talent standpoint, I mean, there was, you know, Haber was up there. He's a Hall of Fame talent,

but he didn't have necessarily that Hall of Fame work at the, and, you know, the buy-in wasn't what it needed to be. And, you know, he was accustomed to doing things a certain way when he was in Tennessee. And under Greg Blotch, Greg was a stickler on, hey, doing things, you know, this way. And you've got to be in your gap. And, you know, Albert made a lot of plays, but he might, you know, backdoor blocks and all those types of things. So there was a, there was some pushback. And, you know, it didn't get off to a great start then once we switched to a three-four.

That first year, we were in a 4-3. Then when Chattahan came in, we went to a 3-4, and they were going to put him at the nose-tackle position, which meant he could even make – he was going to make even less play. That was not a good thing. And it was a situation where it definitely was – and we – you know, you got this guy who's, you know, one of the best tackles in football,

and he's not contributing because of, you know, him not buying into the system. You know, you told me something, and London and I played golf together last week. And you told me something about, or you were telling all of us something about Albert Haynesrith, you know, there's this, this memory that it all changed when Mike got here, Hazlitt got here, they switched to the three-four, and Albert didn't want to be a nose tackle. But you mentioned in 2009 he was in a four-three and he still wasn't thrilled with the way he was playing and being played in 2009, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That was, again, he had played in a 4-3 defense in Tennessee. And in Tennessee, they played a different type of 4-3. They played their defense of ends and what you call why not. And the tackles were kind of more pass rushing and getting out of the quarterback. It was more about, you know, you didn't have to necessarily be in your gap,

told us speak at all times and he would if he had the B gap and it was a run play he may have back doored and went into the C gap but then he was you know it chased down and make a bunch of plays well and that was fine they were they were that's the way they played

in Tennessee well once he came to Washington our defense scheme was predicated on everybody being in their gaps and you know if you weren't weren't in your gap it was going to

affect everybody else on the, you know, on the defense. And Coach Blas, he didn't, he, he did not like that. So there was a lot of pushback. And Albaugh wasn't happy. And Greg Blach, anybody who knows him, he's not going back down. So it was, it was definitely some, you know, some tension, to say the least. All right. We're going to get to this year's team here in a moment. But I learned something about you last week that I had no idea. And I think people listening, I'm not so sure everybody knows this about you either. You were a college basketball player before you became a college football player at John Carroll University in Ohio. Was basketball your first love and did you think that that was going to be your sport?

Oh, without a doubt. That was my first love. I only played one year of high school football. basketball was what I loved from elementary, you know, throughout up until, you know, going into college. I took a Division I won basketball scholarship. I like football while I was playing, but I didn't play tackle football to my senior year high school. And from there, I had Division I football offers but also basketball offers and decided that I wanted to stick with basketball and take the D1 offer. I went to St. Francis University up in Loretto, PA,

played there for a year and a half, and then transferred and played basketball and football. But my mind was set on, and my heart was set on basketball for as long as I can remember. And, you know, it wasn't until I started falling too much. And I was like, you know, maybe it's time to give this basketball up. I'm a little too physical.

The referees aren't allowing me to play. physical. I like the bad boy style of defense where, you know, the old school, you get physical with guys, and the rest weren't seen it in my way. So I was having three files too early in the game. Were you kind of a mini-barkly? I was, I was a unique player in terms of I was strong for a point guard, physical could jump, you know, very quick. I love going to the basket. It had what I called the Tim Hardaway crossed over to U-Tep two-step. I had that as part of my game. And, you know, it was a streaky outside shoot.

I can get out from three-point land, but I was either threes or going all the way to the bucket. But defensively, I get after you. I mean, you were a boxy point guard. I mean, were you 5-10 in like 250 as a college basketball point guard? No, no, no. No, no, I was, no, I was my, I was five-time. 10 and about 200 pounds. Okay, all right.

But you must have been one hell of us. I mean, you just mentioned that you were your defensive ability, but you must have been tough to check too. I mean, especially if you had a handle. And I have to say that playing golf with London last week, you know, not all middle linebackers end up being really good golfers, but you have great hands in a great short game. And I bet that that's from your basketball background.

It's possible. Now, I work at it. No, but you've got natural hands. I mean, you know, you've got a natural feel that you wouldn't necessarily think of with a starting middle linebacker. All right. I thought that was, I mean, everybody knows your story as a Division III college football player. I'm just not sure everybody knew that you actually were a D1 college basketball. player at St. Francis. You got some D1 college football offers, but they were more preferred

walk-on offers, right, from Ohio State and others? Both. I had offers from Bowling Green, Miami of Ohio, maybe another, I can't remember another, like, Max School for a football, scholarship, football. Ohio State and Michigan came in, and they wanted me to be a preferred walk-on at their schools. And I was like, man, I'm not, I got scholarships. I'm not paying to go to school. I didn't come from a family with a bunch of money. So, you know, going to college and paying for it wasn't going to happen,

especially when I had scholarship offers. I had Division I offered in football, Division I offers in basketball. When they talked about Walk-on, it was, that wasn't even part of the equation. And also, I had my heart set on playing basketball. So that wasn't even in the equation. I did get an offer from Northern Illinois in basketball, and they said I could play both. They already had a guy on the basketball team who was playing football as well.

So that was intriguing to me, and I was almost ready to commit there because it would allow me to play both. But it was just, I felt like it was a little home being up in Illinois. and I wasn't ready necessarily to go that far away from home. So I ended up going to St. France and just playing basketball. Were you a good basketball? Were you a good player at John Carroll? How many years did you play both sports? I played, I transferred in the middle of my sophomore year.

So I finished the season out playing basketball. And then the next year I played football and basketball together, both seats. So I only played one year playing both sports. in college. Okay. One full season playing both sports. One full season, yeah, one full season playing both sports. And then after that second year playing basketball, I gave that up completely and played two more years at Carroll and then strictly football only. And was that because you saw a future, an NFL future potentially, even though you were to D3 school?

Dad, and I was falling too much and I was too frustrated I was like, just too frustrated. I'm mad. I'm upset. I can't be physical

like I want to. They're taking away my skill set. I wasn't enjoying it anymore, any longer. Football had come to the forefront and there was a, there was a realization

that, man, maybe the NFL is a possibility. I had a couple coaches on our hands. staff, we had a couple of coaches on our staff that had been in the NFL in various different roles or had

connections in the NFL and they were they saw the potential and that they kind of put it into my ear like, hey London we think you can play in the NFL and I was like, okay let me go ahead and know really embrace this and dedicate all my

attention and time to playing football. All right, let's talk about this team. Actually before that How's the booth going? I mean, this is a transition for you into a broadcast booth as the lead analyst for an NFL team. How's it gone through the first three preseason games? I think it's going well. With anything, it's a new role, new element.

I've been on television doing studio shows since I retired for CBS Sports Network. So I did that for eight years. I'm very comfortable in the studio. But being in the game and calling the game and being a game and being. in the booth is a totally different dynamic. And also we're doing it in a three-person booth with Julia and myself as an analyst and Bram as a play-by-play. So there's a dynamic and chemistry that you've got to get used to.

So just the third preseason game was I feel better than the first. I felt great about our last game in just in terms of being in the booth and the way our chemistry in that game against Baltimore is an exciting game. and I'm just looking forward, and I know we'll only get better, and we'll continue to thrive off of each other. And hopefully it'll be, it'll come to the point where fans will prefer to watch it on television, but listen to turn the sound down and listen to us on the radio, because I feel like we do a great job of informing you of what you're getting,

you know, plays wide, why play work offensively and defensively. That's what I really try to articulate to the listeners, letting them know what I'm seeing and give them my perspective and my knowledge of playing the middle lineback position for for 16 years. We are the quarterbacks of the defense, so we see the defense as a whole. I understand defense, and heck, I understand office because that's what I was faced with or task with stopping for 16 years. and so I'm uniquely qualified, I feel, to give them that person.

The second great franchise middle linebacker in the booth. Of course, Sam Huff was in it for many, many years. All right, let's talk about this team. When friends of yours ask you what kind of team Washington's going to have this year, what do you tell them? I think they have the potential, if they play up to their potential, they have the potential to challenge for a playoff spot, When you look at the NFC, it's not as top-heavy or as loaded as the AMC.

You know, you're going to have your four-division winners. And then I look at whether it's the NFC West with you're going to have Sanfran, the Rams, Arizona. So they'll all be in a mix. Whoever doesn't win that division, no two teams are being in a mix for one and three wildcars spots. And then you look at the NFC South. It's either Tampa and New Orleans, I feel, will win that division. and the other team will be in the mix and probably make the playoffs between the same

for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And in our division, it's us, the Cowboys, and the Eagles. There'll be two other teams fighting for one of those spots, whoever doesn't win the division. So really, when you look at it, I think it's going to be about five teams fighting for those three playoff spots, and Washington will definitely be in the mix.

We'll be in the mix to get one of those wild-car spots. I'm not ready to say we should win the division. Just do we have the talent? Sure. If we play up to that potential, we could shock some people and win that division. But definitely it wouldn't be, it's not far fast to expect us to compete for a playoff spot. When it comes to this team, what are you most confident in and what concerns you the most? Most confident in, I really like the playmakers on offense.

you know, I just, there's so many guys that they'll be able to take advantage of the defense for every single player. You know, you can dictate matchups, dictate the terms of the agreement, what I like, terms of the agreement like I like to call it. You can flex a running back out, get him lined up or masked up against a linebacker on a running back or tight ends are very good weapons. Our receivers are very dynamic. I really like those.

Concerned about the depth of the defense on the back end, you know, there were some concerns, obviously, in the preseason with our third down defense. It was an issue last year, something that has to be fixed. If you want to play great defense, you have to be great on third down. That's that. Get off the field, get the ball back to your offense. And so those are concerns for me, the depth of the defensive backs and the third down defense. What do you make of the linebacker situation?

You know, they re-signed John Bostic the other day. We've known for a while that Rivera and Jack love Bostick. You know, he's probably you without the athletic ability in the production in terms of being kind of the coach on the field. You know, they've always loved that about him, about how smart he is. But overall, I mean, you know, it's whole. it's Davis, and they brought back Mayo, they brought back Bostic. There aren't a lot of linebackers on this team, and it's a question mark. What do you think of the group they have?

I think Davis and Hocom are going to be really good this year. I really like the way Jamie played in the preseason and what I've seen so far of him in the training and training cap. You can tell he's a lot more comfortable in his role, a lot more comfortable in his play. I mean, there's some times where, you know, he's just, the speed and athleticism, you see that, you know, every play he's making a play on the sideline or across the field, just running the guy down. But you also, and now the physicality is him taking all blockers and getting, and shocking them in a hole or rocking their head, his back. And then also, Cole, as a middle linebacker, you understand. He understands his role better and everything that comes with the middle lineback.

like a position now having played it for a number of games last season. So I feel good about those two guys from a depth standpoint. Once you get into whether it's Bostic or male, you're going to lose some athleticism with those guys, but you gain probably more savviness and experience. So those guys don't have to do what we call ability align. You know, whatever your ability says that you are, that's where you should align.

So, you know, from that standpoint, hopefully Damon and Holcomb, Cole, don't go down because you will, there will be a drop-off from an athletic standpoint and speed standpoint, but you'll get enough experience standpoint and probably knowledge at this point just because Mayo and Bostic have been around for so long. All right. So, you know, you can't do an interview about this team and talk about this team without weighing in on the kind of year that you think Carson Wentz is going to have. So what's your answer to that? I think if Carson plays to his abilities and understand he doesn't have to be the hero, he doesn't have to be the guy that goes out and throws for $3.50 a day a game for us. to win. I've mentioned all the playmakers that we have. He just has to get the ball into the hands of those playmakers and let them do the rest.

Offensive line, the protection, you know, we got one of the best offensive line coaches in the NFL. They protect him. The offense will dial up play to make, and he just has to execute those plays. You know,

if he plays to the level he played at, maybe a little better than he did at this indie last year i think it'll be good enough you know just um just him playing at that level it'll be more about him getting comfortable with his offense this is his third office first time playing in this type of offense getting comfortable with the playmakers he has around him and you know from there he doesn't have to shoulder the low because there are so many playmakers on the offense best case record worst case record for this team prediction time Best case, let's code 12 and 5, 11 to 6.

Okay. Worst case? Man, I'm too optimistic. I don't think worst case. That's not in my, I don't know. I'm not a half-half-half-fool type of guy. Okay. I can't think of worst-case, man.

That's, yeah. Well, let me just say, for a guy that took a stroke on a par three last week, I'm going to require that you answer this question. Hey, the scope, all I do is line, all I do is play with a stroke. I didn't, I didn't sign the course. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't do the handicapped. It was, let me. Hey, hey, but what did I do?

I know what you did. I got a three, two. You got a three, two, baby. So that's not my fault. You know, I really, I haven't, again, I, it's all, I can't think, like, worst case scenario. Like, I don't, yeah, anything less than winning. Okay. I won't put you on the spot there. That's fine. Anything less than winning nine games would be a disappointment, I would say.

That's fine. And let me also just explain for all of the golf people out there. It was a, it was supposed to be a par four on the card, but they had some issues on the course. They had to turn it in that weekend to a par three, but London was already getting the pop there. He was already getting the stroke, and he did make par for a three net two, which basically won the back nine for his team. But he would, but, but, go finish, finish, finish what you're saying? No, I'm just going to say, you played really, really well. I mean, you know, all, London, what were you, a 14, 13 or 14 or something like that? You shot 80 or 81? I did like, I shot an 80. Yeah. Yeah, you played.

well. I was playing two-fort. And I was with a double on the last call. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can tell though golf right now is one of your passions, isn't it? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Let me ask you to Kevin, you, so you told the story about the part three, you failed to mention that's really well. Oh, the Dan Snyder, the Dan Snyder store. We beat you guys pretty, pretty handily. You did. In terms of just winning I'm not going to say how much we were, but it was significant. Fortunately, I had some side action going that got me almost back to even. But no, I thought you were going to say. So at one point during the round, the conversation of Dan Snyder comes up, as it does almost always,

when you're out playing golf and talking about the team. And London, and I've said this before about Cooley and about Santana and Clinton, and in particular, Clinton and Cooley, Cooley I did a radio show with for three years and he's become a really close friend. And all of you guys, especially the stars of the team, always had a great relationship with the owner, with Dan. And you said something very nice about Dan and Tanya at the beginning of this conversation. And when I made the comment, you know, that it's hard for me as a lifelong born and raised Washingtonian who's been a massive fan of this team from birth. It's hard for me now to believe that they'll ever win, you know, in a sustained fashion as long as Dan is the owner.

You took offense to that. And you said, well, why? and I listed the reasons. And then by the way, London was so flustered, he stepped up to the T-box and shanked one out of bounds, which we both laughed at. But no, you know, I've said this before to Clinton and to Cooley in particular. You know, you guys have a personal relationship. You know him and the family personally. For us, we can only sort of evaluate the professional.

And the professional has been awful over 23 years. You know, it's been as bad as any in all of team sports. But you came to his defense and then got a little rattled and drove one 40 yards right out of bounds. That was more about club selection. I know. I know. I know. I've known him since 2007.

He's always been great to me. Always been treating me great. And I wish more people knew him. You know, he allowed more people to know who he is from a true standpoint. He doesn't do a bunch of interviews, really any interviews. So that allows the media to paint their own narrative of him. And, you know, what you read or hear is not always reality. It's not all true.

To kind of give you an example of how Danny is as a person is a couple years ago, about two years back, right during the pandemic, my wife got diagnosed with cancer, breast cancer. And I probably several months had passed, and I, you know, reached out to him, letting him know about my wife and what, you know, what she was going through. And I had contacted his assistant, actually. And even though, you know, I could contact him personally. Within, I don't know, two, three minutes, Dan was calling me, you know, hey, Lundon, anything. you need. You know,

his wife has gone through, you know, breast cancer, herself. And, I mean, he's like, hey,

you know, put her, let her talk to Tanya. I mean, just all, you know, these are doctors, you need,

what do you need? You know, just get from that standpoint. And we've talked, you know, multiple times and text or whatever, you know,

since then, and even every time, you know, London, how's your wife doing? You know, just always, you know, want to know how she's doing.

Can he do something for her? I mean, just, you know, they send us random gift baskets for no reason. This was even before the cancer diagnosis. You know, he's sending gift baskets for my kids and myself. And, you know, this is even before, you know, the cancer stuff. So just to give you an idea of who he is and how he's treated me and my family. And this has nothing. I haven't played for Washington since 2013.

So this is prior to me even going back and coming into the radio booth. So, you know, I just wish more people knew the stories of just his generosity because the only narrative that is out there is, you know, all this stuff about, hey, him and ownership and meddling and all those things. And trust me, a lot of that is overblown. It is grossly overblown. How's your wife doing? She's doing great. She's cancer-free.

It was tough, obviously, with just having breast cancer, but also with it being during the pandemic. So there was just that added anxiety of, hey, you had to be extremely careful because her immune system was compromised. Sure. During the chemo and everything that she went through. But she's doing great. She's cancer-free, and thank God for that.

And London's coaching high school or middle school football down in Charlotte. Yeah, as well. So good luck with that. Have you guys had a game yet or not, or is it this coming weekend? We did. We had our first game a couple days ago. We won 22.14. We were up 22-0.

And then in the fourth quarter, the defense coordinator, I'm not going to say his name. You. You know, a game of 14 points. I understand how tough it is, coordinated defense. But, you know, the guys, they play well, and we were able to come away with the victory. We had a shout-out going through three quarters, and we were holding on to our seat of our pants at the end of that game.

You know, the guys, I'm happy for them, and, you know, there's a lot of work we still need to get done before our next game. Do you want a coach? You know, I really enjoy coaching, doing the coaching that I'm doing right now. Yeah. I look at the middle school level is great. My son, he plays JV football, and I'm able to watch him play on the high school level. But just the middle school level, there's so many guys that are just being introduced to the game.

You know, just the pureness of it and teaching. And I feel like if you can coach middle school football, you can coach anywhere. You know, some guys don't understand you're talking to them And they have no clue of what you're saying So it definitely challenges me to To know how to communicate with them Because I can find myself speaking in terms Like I'm talking to a guy who played on a professional level

Or a collegian level with some of my terms And then I have to realize This kid has no idea what I'm talking about So let me, you know, explain it to them In a matter that where it gets through to them So I enjoy coaching on the middle school level. You never know what the future holds, but between this, coaching middle school and being in the booth, man, I'm extremely fulfilled. I think you're, I think you nailed it.

I think first of all, you know, if you can coach, you can coach at any level. But more importantly, when you've got that age group, you have such an impact and you can have such an impact in their, in their what are still, their formative years. And I bet you're an outstanding coach. So good luck to the team and good luck in the booth. I appreciate you doing this. Get out of the car, get to the range, hit some balls, and go break 80 today. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. All right. As long as I win the money, I'm happy. You were competitive. I appreciate it, London. Take care. All right, thanks. All right, bye. London Fletcher, everybody. I enjoyed that. I hope you did as well. Up next, some college football talk and some Serena talk right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, this segment of the podcast is presented by my good friends at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag. Bills and Rams a week from last night, full-fledged NFL weekend a week away. It's time to prepare for your winning season at MyBooky. Whether you're a veteran better or a first time or my bookie gets you the most for your money with a double deposit bonus it's quick it's easy a 250 deposit puts 500 dollars into your account um and from there you just uh pick winners uh and to help us do that it's my good friend Stanford steve neither one of us I think would be described as a first time better um that wouldn't that wouldn't be the description uh for us. By the way, I gave out my first pick of the year last night, and it looked so dead in the water. I gave out central Michigan plus 22. They were down 51 to 17, and I thought that Oklahoma State was going to run it up to 70 something. And then they scored, you know, 22 unanswered,

I think, in the fourth quarter to get, you know, what turned out to be kind of a comfortable cover. They had the ball back, you know, down 14 at the end. Who did you have last night? Did you give anybody out? I've yet to watch Scott's first winner segment. I haven't watched it yet. Okay. Okay.

Well, it's out there for the people. It's good to see we have a new winner segment, Kevin, because I'm getting tired of talking about last year and how well he did. So now he can't live off that one anymore, as everybody loves to tell him. Earlier in the week, I grabbed Fresno State because it was the first number I saw at 32, and they won 35-7, so we didn't hit there. And then last night on Daily Wager, I took the over on the Missouri-Lewythead of Texas game that got there in the fourth quarter.

It didn't look good in the first quarter, but I just, I think the world that Eli Drakewood, as an offensive guy, Sonny Cumming, going to Louisiana Tech, I just thought defense was going to be working on. Good by you with Central Michigan. That was one I looked at, but I just couldn't pull the trigger. The MacKillain, I mean, he batted on it. Yeah, it was 50. They scored on like the third play of the third court, 5115, and then McAwayne, he's got his quarterback back.

They have the leading rusher in the country back. Right. And Oklahoma State still working through some things defensively with Derek Mason coming in. So, yeah, you got there. Central Michigan. It was unbelievable. I think they scored 22 in the fourth quarter to get to there.

So there you go. Got to start my win. You know, what's interesting is the game was 7-7 and Central Michigan got the ball back there on the move. They missed a field goal. Then they got another stop, but the punt went to the one, and it turned out to be a safety. And then the floodgates open. By the way, you mentioned this guy, the Central Michigan running back, Lou Nichols. He's a pro-running back.

I mean, last night was my first night watching him. I knew he was really good last year, and I knew they had the quarterback and Nichols coming back off a high-octane offensive team last year, which is why I thought they could score some points and cover, plus the public was on the other side, on the 11th ranked team in the country. But the kid, people who are listening, Lou Nichols, Central Michigan, he's only a sophomore, but that's a pro back. I think.

Yeah. I agree with you. You know, Mac and Wayne's the coach. People know him from, you know, Alabama offensive coordinator, Colorado State Coach, Florida. He still knows what he's doing on offense. So that was a nice one for the Mac. All right. I want to, we're talking college football.

We will get back to the betting portion of this conversation to see who, you know, Steve likes. But I want to just start overall with the state of college. football right now. And a lot of what's happened over the last month plus with, you know, UCLA and USC to the Big Ten and all of the discussion about what's coming next. And then even yesterday, you know, this meeting among the sports, you know, higher ups about potentially expediting and expanded college football playoff, maybe to 12 teams by 2024. I think they'd be nuts if they don't do that. And maybe by the time some of you listen to this, it's already been done. But what, you know, as someone like me, we both love this sport so much, where do you see it going?

What does it look like three, four years from now? Well, I think the idea of everything, Kevin, is after this off season, it's been pretty negative. The talk as a whole around the sport, whether it's NIL and how the hell or is this kid going to this school and it's all hush, hush. and, you know, the old school gets mad because, you know, terms of a financial agreement were made with NIL and then, you know, the transfer portal alone. UCLA and SC, you know, coming out of nowhere, coaches leaving big-time schools and those schools feeling pretty hurt. And, you know, by those guys leaving to take other jobs. And when I talk about that, I mean Notre Dame and Oklahoma. And then those schools having a tough time and then absolutely just jumping off.

in after they get their head coach for a little while. So I think the powers that be need to make this happen and get a positive going. And I thought it was pretty ironic that this story comes out the day of the season.

And because you're going to get a person like me that when it comes down through everything in the sport, I want to talk about the games. I'll let all that stuff shake out. There's people that know things and moves are made. before, you know, it happens.

So I leave all that to the powers that be, and now we got games on it. So I do think it was kind of funny that that story came out yesterday on the first day of games. But I will believe it when everybody starts agreeing, and I'm talking about that with the commissioners of the conference. They have to get on the same page. I know the presidents are meeting,

but the Aedes and the commissioners are the people that get the balls rolling. The presidents, I think, are just want to see some numbers. So we'll see what happens. But, yeah, I could only see this going as well. By the way, let me just make sure that I properly introduce Stanford, Steve, because I didn't do that. We just kind of got into the conversation. Of course, Stanford Steve is a big part of Scott's Sports Center. He does the podcast with the bear on ESPN, ESPN.com, and so much of his college football musings.

and wagers are all there at ESPN.com. Plus, he's a big part of the nightly show, the daily wager on ESPN or one of the ESPN stations at Stanford Steve 82. So, you know, I agree with you. It's not a comparison here necessarily, but I can't, I have to talk about the NFL preseason and training camp, but to me,

it's so dreadful to watch, and I just want the real games to come, because I like talking like you do, I like watching and then talking about games, like real games, you know, not roster spots 48 through 53 and obsessing over that stuff. But, you know, with that said, I had Bruce Feldman on the show, I don't know, maybe a month ago, and I asked him the following question, and we'll do this, just one more question, and then we'll move on to the season in the game. I said, do you think that college football has gotten over its skis and they're not seeing the forest for the trees that they're actually all of this, you know, conference reshuffling and the possibility of a super conference that eventually nobody's thinking about the product itself

and that the product is, you know, Saturdays and conference rivalries and traditions? And I know things change. I'm not trying to be the old man, get off your lawn guy, but that ultimately all of this stuff could really end up hurting this sport that you and I and so many others love. Yeah, for sure. I believe so, because when you look at it, Kevin, it's broken down in so many different parts.

You know, I talked about the president's going to meet about this playoff, and you got your commissioners that just want their conference to get in that playoff knowing the money. is at stake and get in those bowl games to make sure their schools are taking care of financially. And then you go down even further. The ADs just want that image to be good at their school. And then you go down even farther to the people that I talk to, and that's the like the assistant coaches in this.

And those guys were just counting down the days to the season starting and getting in camp because it's turned into an everyday job, whether it's NIL or transfers. those guys are immersed every single day, not only going out and recruiting new players for their team that are in high school, but now you've got guys in a player development program they talk about where, you know, hey, who's from this area, you know,

that left to go to school and might not be starting and wants to come back home possibly? And then, you know, your own battles on your roster because I think it's pretty eye-opening what Lane Kiffin's doing that quarterback and what Jim Harbaugh is doing at quarterback because I think they're scared of death to lose a quarterback. And what's going to happen?

This kid's going to get a starter. He's going to be able to put QB1 on his Instagram and his Twitter page, and then the other guy's going to start looking to go other places. So it is an everyday deal when you talk to these assistant coaches, and I know they are, but when you go down the ladder,

look how far they are from the people that are actually ultimately going to make this decision. That's where I think it's a scary still because these people are in it every day. They know what's going on. The people at the top are just throwing numbers around and seeing if everything will work there. So I do feel like there is a disconnect

when you look at the tiers of people involved in the sport. All right. Let's talk about the season and then we'll get to this first weekend. Last year, you know, we did have Cincinnati and Michigan into the playoff, you know, two new entrants to go with Alabama and Georgia. Do you see this season being back to a lot of halves, Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson, and then a lot of have-nots? Is there a big difference between, well, especially Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, and everybody else?

Yes. I believe it. Last year, I did the same spot for you the day the season started, and I talked about there was opportunity for other teams because I thought last year was the time to get Alabama. to get Clemson, to get Ohio State because of the youth at quarterback. Right. And, you know, it ended up opening up. You know, Cincinnati took advantage of their opportunity. Michigan finally beat that door down and got the job done.

And now when I look at everything in totality in this Power 5 deal, and even in the non-power 5, I think it's going to be really tough. I still think Clemson has work to do, even though their defensive line is the best unit in the whole sport. You know, they got a local kid in Brisee on that D-line. I think those four guys might be better than the team. Georgia was. National championships. I really, no, Clemson.

No, I'm saying, do you think it's better? You're saying they're defensive front. Yes. Is it better than what Georgia had defensively last year? Because I thought that was one of the best defenses we've ever seen in college football. Yes, I'm talking about the front four. Yeah. The front four is better.

Okay. The front four is better. I'll get to Georgia. But that defensive line is going to keep them in games in that conference. And their schedule, I think, is doable. But I looked at Ohio State, Georgia, and Alabama as teams that are playoff worthy. And so that leaves one spot. And I keep going back and forth.

I play in the Pac-12. The perception of the conference is as bad as it could be. And I'm sure we'll talk about Utah, Florida. That's why it's a monster game. Right. But I look at UCLA, Kevin. I see a road there because

this is something that Chip Kelly thrives in. Everybody's talking about USC. Utah is a top 10 team. Oregon is a top 10 team. And UCLA's just waiting in their wings. When you go down their roster, they got 21 guys who have already graduated.

20 of those guys are in graduate school. He brings his quarterback, his running back back. He's got, you did a great job in the transfer portal of getting guys. They got a ton of depth on defense. They don't play anybody in the non-conference, and they get Utah at home. They got to go to Oregon, and then they get USC at home. So a team off the path, because I think the Big 12 is going to beat each other up. I think the ACC is way better than people are giving it credit for, and that's why I think it's a one-lost or even undefeated UCLA team would be a two-lossed ACC team. So when you look at that top tier,

I do think Alabama and Ohio State are there, and I think Georgia, talking to people around the program, they are revved up to show what they got. And what people aren't going to understand, you know, the average fan, you know, when they turn that game on tomorrow with Georgia, is number 88, Geron Carter, who I think is the best defensive lineman possibly in the country, is going to jog back out in the field for Georgia. And people are going to be like, wait a minute, that guy wasn't one of the 15 guys drafted off that Georgia defense. Yeah. So it's going to be a whirlwind for people, I think, when they see Georgia and see how many guys are back because they played so many guys because they were, they buried so many teams. So I think Georgia has the goods. And obviously, the quarterbacks for Ohio State and Alabama are pretty special, let alone those rosters. So I think it's those three. I think there's a spot for one. And I'm willing to take a shot with UCLA. Wow. I mean, UCLA, that is way off the grid. I mean, they're not even ranked. I mean, they barely got votes. Yeah, I think I really like, I like this. Do they still have the Dorian Robinson hyphenated last name guy at quarterback?

Dorian Thompson Robinson is there. And if people, you know, Dylan Gabriel, who's one of my favorite, it's my favorite quarterback in college football. He was at UCF. He committed the transfer to UCLA. The day he got on campus, Oklahoma named Jeff Leby, who was his offense coordinator at UCF, the office coordinator in Norman,

and he got Dylan Gabriel to leave UCLA a day on campus and go to Oklahoma. So I love to me even more then. Obviously, DTR has plenty of experience, but when you go up and down that offensive line and defensive line in the depth, that Chip Kelly's been able to do with transfers, and recruiting. I see a path there. I really do. And I can't wait to watch them this year. They, again, I was just looking, I pulled up their schedule. They've got a very weak non-conference schedule. Bowling Green, Alabama State, South Alabama, three home games to start. As you mentioned,

Utah and Southern Cal, the two highest ranked pack 12 teams, and Utah opens in the swamp tomorrow night at Florida, which I think is one of the real great first weekend games. They go to Eugene. They play at Oregon. That's interesting. That's really, so I, that leads to my next question, which was going to be, give me your best over, win total over bets for the season and your best under win total bets for the season. What was, what's UCLA's number? Eight and a half. Eight and a half, all over, all over that under. I think they won, you mean over that game. over, sorry, sorry, over UCLA. I also like Washington State out on the Pac-12 because when I look at the Pac-12 and watch it as much as I do,

for the first time in a while, they have four good above-average teams that I think possibly, you know, could be double-digit-win teams. And that's UCLA, USC, Utah, and Oregon. But the rest of the conference, I have no idea. and when I look at Washington State, they got a huge test at Wisconsin. I don't expect them to win at Wisconsin next week. But they have this quarterback, Cameron Ward, who's from Incarnate Ward in Texas. And what they did at Washington State was bringing him,

a while what Western Kentucky did last year with Bailey Zaffy and Kitley. They brought the quarterback and the offensive coordinator, and then they brought guys from that school. And if you go back and look at Cameron Ward's numbers, they're fantastic. and you've got to see this guy. He's a big dude. He's about 6-4-220. He can run, and he's a better thrower than you would think, you know, as you see him. So I look at in a conference where there's winnable games,

and the North teams in that Pack 12 are not good. You've got three first-year head coaches. Stanford has not been the same since COVID. Cal is not good offensively, and they lost their best defensive player before the start of the year. So I think Washington State, their number is five and a half. I love that over. I also like South Carolina's over at 6th.

And then for an under, I took Indiana under 4.5. I just think that the portal and way it's worked, they didn't win a conference game last year. Right. You know, and I think everybody, everybody in the Big Ten East got better this year. Everybody. And probably not Michigan, but I think everybody's better than they were. So I think it's going to be tough for them to win another conference.

conference game. So I looked at Indiana under four and a half. I also on under Wisconsin nine. I think those other teams, I know Nebraska did what they did, but look at what Northwestern did. They're improved. And so I look at those two unders. I think nine, I mean, you've got to get 10 to beat me. I just don't see that off as, you know, making that much improvement. So those are two unders, actually two big 10 unders. Do you like? Do you like Brett Bealmus' chances to turn Illinois back into a legitimate football program? I meant to mention them. I love Illinois this year. Going back and watching the tape from last week, I had them last week.

That was my one pick against Wyoming, who's not good. But when I look at Illinois and we could move to this week because I know that the money's been all over the place on this game against Indiana. And it's fishy to me. I'm sticking with Illinois, even though the numbers say not to. because of the line movement, but I don't think they should be an underdog in this game. And they got a new offensive coordinator. They brought this guy, Barry Lundy Jr., who was the office coordinator of UTSA last year in San Antonio.

And if you go back and look at it, they tore it up last year. They won conference USA, and they put some serious numbers up. And when I watched Illinois back last week, I think having a game under their belt with the guys they have, they got an elite running back and Chase Brown. This kid is a monster, whether you split him out of the backfield, you know, run routes with him out of the backfield, or just give the ball to him. He's electric. And I love – they got a couple transfers at wide receiver. I love their tight ends.

And having a game under their system where they could fix some things and haven't done it in a game situation, I think that's a huge advantage as opposed to Indiana who starts their season with a conference game. So that's why I'm sticking with Illinois. I think DeVito transfer from Syracuse is a capable quarterback. Better than the Sittitsky guy, the guy they had last year stuck. Yeah, Sikkowski. Yeah. I like them too. I've always liked Bielma as a coach.

I was actually kind of surprised that he did not get it done at Arkansas. I felt like that was going to be a good fit, and I'm surprised at that. That's one of the games I like. It just doesn't fit. The smell test kind of because the action is kind of all over the place on the game. But I think Illinois is going to crush Indiana tonight. And there's a chance they could be, you know, a pretty good team. So let me just make sure I have this straight.

Over UCLA, over Washington State, over South Carolina, you like Indiana under. You kind of, I don't know what the Illinois number is. What's the Illinois number? Illinois. I have the Illinois over. It's four and a half. Yeah.

So you got them over four and a half. a half. Anybody else that I missed? What do you think about Clemson's ten and a half? I'm just not a fan of the quarterback. I'm with you, and everything I hear and read out of there, Kevin, is they're ready to make the move a la Trevor Lawrence with this kid

Klubnik who's a Texas kid who everybody raves about. But I don't think Clemson's going to struggle enough offensively. where Davo could make that move. So I think the schedule is formidable. I really like at the NC State. I saw early this offseason had a number of eight.

I think they win 10 games. And then the other wild card in that coppers, too, to me, were Pitt in Miami. We saw Pitt last night, obviously. I think, you know, they learned a lot about themselves, knowing what they lost in Pickett and Addison. And they got a fascinating game next week against baseball. Tennessee who looked apart last night against an underman ball state team. And then I look at Miami.

Christopher did an unbelievable job as he does, you know, getting that roster ready. I'm actually going to their game in two weeks at College Station, which I'm fired up for because that's another team. That's the thing, Kevin, with the portal, I'm just dying to see these new guys in their new uniforms, you know. I think of Oklahoma, like Brett Venable says, they have 50 guys who've never. never put on an Oklahoma uniform, whether it's transfers or recruits. Like, I just, I need, I need to see these big-name teams with what they're bringing

at the table. So, uh, I look at the ACC, I'm trying to think of other team. I'm not a believer in North Carolina. I wasn't before the season. I think they're in a tough spot. They're an underdog. After watching what, look, yeah, we went to Florida A&M did to their secondary. So, uh, NC State's a team I got my eye on. I almost picked them to go to the playoff. I think they could go to Clemson and beat them because they have a really, really good defense. And they bring back everybody, they bring back two guys who were all league that didn't even play last year because of injuries. And when you get into it and, you know, they got to go to Clemson, I think at the end of the month. But that defense is going to travel. And I think

Devin Larry is a legit quarterback. I'm not as high on him as his coaches. He's the best quarterback in college football. But when I go back and watch him in two-minute situations and when you need something done that could get to done man so i have my eyes at nc state i do believe the hype that's surrounded them okay um let's talk about some players uh right now you're your your best bet for the number one pick in the draft next year and let's just assume it's a team that doesn't have a quarterback is it stroud is it young or could it be will anderson who is you know by all accounts, the best defensive edge pass rushing college football and the best pro prospect as well? I think he's the best player in the sport without a doubt.

I don't see how anyone is not going to take him because when I look at the sport or the sport this year, I'm trying to go down and find, like, you know, I thought the Jets got a great, did a good job in getting players that are going to play right away, you know, out of the draft this year. I do that because that kid, Jermaine Johnson, who was a Georgia kid, and he went to Florida State and had an unbelievable year last year, there's not a lot of elite pass rushers in college football this year. And so when I think about that, and I think about offensive lines and what they got to do, there's not a lot of guys where you've got to get totally game planned for.

Will Anderson is that guy. I mean, he is an absolute game wrecker. He has every pass rushing move in the book. He's as stout as there are against the run. run. He'll take on double teams. He's smart. You can't really screen him. If you want to let him let him have a free release to the quarterback and throw the ball behind him, he's smart enough. He's seen everything. So I think he's in his own tier when it comes to players in the sport from an overall that has every tool you want for the next level. Will Anderson's that guy.

All right, but let's just say as an example, the Falcons end up having the first pick. And they're going to take a quarterback. Is it Stroud or Young? Yep. Ooh. Probably Stroud because I still think Bryce Young's size is going to be a factor. I don't think – I thought actually talking to Chris Long about this yesterday. Who's the comp for Bryce Young?

And being on the field for the national championship last year, I was blown away at how not tall he is. Yeah, he's 511, right? Because on the other side, no, no way. No way is he 511. I don't see it. But I think he's more than, meaning you think he's like 59 or 510? I think he's 510 at the most, at the most. And I think he's, but he's, he's, he's got that, that it where he can wait to the last second with pressure in his face and he gets, he anticipates. throws. And when I say that is he throws receivers open. So guys, you know, even on a crossing route, he's going to throw it a little deeper where it's over that defensive back. And you can't teach those things. And that's like when I look at the next level, I know, you know, the Eagles are

getting all this type. I think we've seen the feeling of Jalen Hertz throwing because he doesn't anticipate throws. And that's what gets him in the trouble. And I think that's what thing you need at the next level is giving those guys a shot. Where can I throw this ball? where my receiver is the only guy that could catch it. Bryce Young is as good as I've ever seen, especially as a freshman doing that stuff last year. And, you know, people want to go back and, you know, they almost lost the Iron Bowl.

What he did late in that game is still incredible with me. On the road, freshman, you'll lose your best, best two receivers and still be able to pull that game out. He's special, but I think Stroud, and I know everybody, you know, around here, wants to talk about the idea of Ohio State quarterback's not working out in the NFL. But I think Stroud's a different animal.

And I think Ryan Day knows that. And he's got a special guy there. So I think Stroud will be the first one. The guy who I'm not going to give up on is Jake Hainer at Fresno State. I absolutely love that kid. And they got a chance to beat USC early this year. I think Hainer is only going to climb. Now, he's a six-year guy.

But when you talk about having experience and wanting all all the stuff that you need in a quarterback, you know, as far as getting looks and seeing everything in the college game, Jake Hainer's seen everything. So I think he's a guy that's only going to climb up the board. All right. Before we get, well, okay, one last thing between Stroud and Young. Who wins the Heism? Yep. I think there's going to be Alabama fatigue. I think this Will Anderson hype is going to get momentum.

It's going to hurt Bryce Young's chances. And I also think the kid that got. got from Georgia Tech, Jamir Gibbs. I think Alabama's going to run the ball a little bit more. I still think they got a lot of proven to do with their wideouts. So I think Jamir Gibbs is going to take a lot of the limelight away, too, because Bryce Young's going to throw the ball to him out of the backfield. And I think Trayvion Henderson is going to take things away from Stroud.

So, like, I went down. You know, RG3 and Tebow won the Heism with three losses. And that's the problem with this award is it's been attached to winning so much. and I took a shot when the Heisman odds came out with Dylan Gabriel because I think he's going to put up absolutely ludicrous numbers in Oklahoma in that system. So I take a shot with him. What did you get Gabriel at?

What were the odds? I have him at 38 to 1. Wow. So it's tough. Like I said, I want to see everything. The problem we're running back. You got B. John Robinson, who's phenomenal. Trayvion Henderson.

Tramion Henderson. I think Will Shipley at Clemson is going to have a monster year, but they have too many running backs. Like they have, they got four running backs that could start anywhere in the country. Does one of the A&M skill guys break out, you know, out west? Does Caleb Williams do the, do everything? And do they win enough games? I'm not, I don't think they do. Because there's, he's going to be strictly attached to how many games they win. When you talk about perception and then that's how these narratives get started, that's what I look at there. I don't think there's anybody in the Big 12. Like I said, I think that

that conference is going to be. I think they're all a good team. Caleb Williams with Lincoln Riley and whatever SC, that's a possibility. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it is. But like I said, I think they're going to be attached to winning. If they lose to like Fresno State or somebody early, he's going to go way, way down the list.

All right. Let's talk about this weekend. Who do you like? Yeah. I like Illinois. I have them. You'll love this one. We just talked about SC. I just have to take the 32 and a half of rice. I just have to because there's not going to be another opportunity to take rice. Didn't you have rice several times last year or am I thinking of somebody else? I had him a couple years ago when everybody in the mother had Army to open the season. They were catching a bunch, and they almost won.

But I just, they're in a total contrast of style, and why I don't like USC this year, is like they legitimately have six guys on the offensive line. And once they lose one of those guys, they're, they're to walk on. And that's something that you don't talk about that's going to happen. So I look at them, and yeah, it's tough. I like Oklahoma to come out and jumpstart Utep. I just need Utep to score like 10 because I like the over there. I think it's only 50. It's in the 50s.

58 maybe. So I like that over. You're doing the trying to cover a 30-point favorite and keep the game under 50. I remember that a few years ago. Bama was playing somebody. They were a 41 point favorite and the total was 43. And I think I said, well, that just reeks. And so I took Bama and the under and it was 42 to nothing.

I may not have gotten the numbers or the actual game right, but it was my buddy Steve Solomon and I were both sitting in our bullpen at the radio station. And you just looked at me and he said, Bama is a 41 point favorite and the total is 43. And I said, let's take the favorite in the under and see if we can thread the needle. And it worked. But yeah, that's always tough, right? When you've got a massive favorite, you're also rooting for the under.

All right. So who else? I like Louisville, even though I don't like giving points on the road. And I'm taking a shot with Rutgers on the road catching seven. I don't think BC's that firepower heavy. and I think Ruckers do enough to muck it up and make it ugly. So I'll take the seven there. At Stanford Steve 82 on Twitter.

He gave you UCLA as the fourth playoff team after Bama, Georgia, and the Buckeyes. That's the first I've heard about the Bruins and a final four run. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. We'll do it again soon. Thanks, brother. I appreciate you. Stanford Steve, everybody, with UCLA as one of his final four.

picks. Wow, have not heard that a lot. I wanted to mention, because we haven't talked about them yet. Maryland opens tomorrow at noon in College Park against Buffalo. The terms are 24 and a half point favorites now. That line has gone up. I think they're going to crush Buffalo to get their seasons off to a good start. This is Mike Loxley's best team at Maryland. If you missed my conversation with Mike Loxley. It's from the August 27th show. Last Saturday, put out a show. I think we had been standing on the show, and then there was a conversation that I had with Mike Loxley, which was a part of that show as well. If you didn't, for you TURP fans, if you didn't listen to that, go back, go to the Kevin Sheeonshow.com, click on past episodes and click on the,

Are They Ready or Not episode? It's a shorter episode from last Saturday. And you can hear my conversation with Mike Loxley. But I think the Terps have a chance to win seven games this year. Maybe eight. You know, they've got a very difficult schedule. As Mike pointed out last week, probably the third or fourth toughest schedule in the country the Terps have.

That's part of the problem. They're in that Big Ten East. But even beyond just being in the Big Ten East, they play out of the Big Ten West at Wisconsin and Purdue, who's good this year. We saw them last night. They also play Northwestern. I don't know what kind of team Northwestern has. Their three non-conference games start tomorrow. Buffalo, then they're at Charlotte. Those should be two easy wins. And then they get SMU in College Park for a nationally televised game on September 17th. But still, the Terps will be solid favorites, heavy favorites in the first two games, including, you know, being 24 and a half

point favorites tomorrow against Buffalo. There'll be a big favorite against Charlotte next week, and they'll be a favorite more likely than not against SMU, maybe a slight favorite. But they've got a chance to start off 3-0 and maybe get some recognition nationally before they go to the big house on September 24th to face Michigan. They are loaded offensively at the skill position players. They really are. They've got an improved offensive line as well. Maryland should be one of the best offensive teams, not only in the Big Ten, but they should be one of the more explosive teams in the country offensively. Again, the competition is the problem. You know, Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin,

Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue this year. You know, they could be a much improved team and the best team that Loxley's had and still end up struggling to be bowl eligible. But I think, you know, with Copeland, with Deemis, with Jarrett, with Jones, with some of the backs, with some of the offensive linemen,

they've got a pro prospect up front as well. And with Leotung of Iloa, coming off the finish that he had last year, which was an incredible finish against Rutgers, and then just a flawless bowl game against Virginia Tech when they beat the Hokies 54 to 10. I think Maryland's got a chance to win seven plus games this year. So good luck to them.

I'm into that, as most of you know. I'll be watching tomorrow. I'm not going to go to the game tomorrow. I think I'm going to go to that SMU game in two weeks. Well, one of the most exciting things going on in sports, even though this is the first college football weekend of the year and the NFL opens up on Thursday with the Bills and the Rams. Serena's first two wins at the U.S. Open have been incredible to watch,

and my good friend Mark Stern was there. Why was he there? Well, he's got a podcast called Courtside at the U.S. Open. You can get it anywhere you get a podcast. Mark, of course, was the producer of the sports fix with yours truly and Tom Levero for seven and a half years, and he is a major part of the Tony Cornheiser show as its producer. and Nigel voice. So you and I both, I mean, I don't know how many times over the years we've had these

just obscure tennis conversations and people will walk by us and go, what are you guys talking about? And you know, and you know that I don't love the sport as much as I used to. You still do. You're working in the sport. Let's just start with this. You've been there for the first two Serena matches. I, what was it like to be there?

The electricity was popping through the TV. Well, then it conveyed it very accurately what it was like. I mean, it's loud. I mean, first of all, it's a night session at the U.S. Open with this fantastic New York crowd. And so it's very boisterous. And, I mean, it's packed. There's an electricity to it. And it really, Kevin had to feel of a championship match.

You know, it was that sort of anticipation and the way everyone was hanging on every point. And it's funny because as loud as it was on Monday night when Serena played for the first time, and she came out at this thunderous applause and everybody's on their feet. It wasn't really going the way the people wanted it to go, and then it was definitely silent because everyone was like, oh, no, is this going to be it? Is this going to be the farewell tour? And then, and listen, I was among those people that thought there's a really good chance that she could lose in the first round. Just based on what we had seen from her in the few matches leading up to this,

she hadn't looked sharp, she hadn't looked like she was moving well, and then she turned it around, and she was pulled together and was terrific, and the crowd just erupted, and it really has been something special. And again, I don't know how much of the post-match ceremony you watch with Gil King hosting, and Oprah Winfrey had narrated something, and it was like, sometimes I look at those, and I'm like, all right, this is a little maudlin, this is a little too much, but, and But that night, it was pretty cool. And it was one of those things. We kind of looked around and you said,

I'm really glad I'm not just watching this, but I'm here on site to sort of feel the vibes for it. And actually, by the time the match ended, I had left. And I was sitting next to Zina Garrison, watching that because I interviewed her for the show right after that ceremony. And I knew that she had a relationship with Serena, but I didn't know that she basically knows Serena since Serena was like eight years old. So it was really, it was really cool to sort of share that moment with Zena,

who's, you know, I mean, a tremendous career in her own right, you know, terrific runs and really broke a lot of barriers. So it was kind of cool to share that moment with her and then talk about it afterwards. So it's just been really cool. I said something to Tommy on the podcast yesterday, and I, and this was not meant to be, you know, a shot at women's sports at all. But watching on Monday night and then on Wednesday night, and I'll be watching again tonight, I can't think of a women's sporting event that had the raucous atmosphere. And like you said, you and I have both been a huge fan of the U.S. Open night matches over the years. I mean, you know, go back to, you know, the Connors run in 91.

One, his first match against Patrick McEnroe in the first round when he was down two sets and a break in the third ended at like 2 a.m. in the morning. The Harhus match, the Khrickstein match. You know, the Agassi-Sampras quarterfinal on a Thursday night back in 2001 or two or whatever year it was. I mean, and it's been a while since you've had that kind of atmosphere. No offense to Roger and Nadal and Jokovic, but it just nobody riled up that crowd like Connors did, or McEnroe did, or then Agassie in his comeback years. I felt the other night may have been one of the most intense, bloodthirsty, you know, one-sided crowds for a player rooting for a player for a women's athlete that I've ever seen. I couldn't come up with a comp for it. No, I think you're right.

I think you hit it on the head. And, you know, there's a part of it that you love it because you're there and you're just, and again, you sort of feed off the crowd. I know Serena's feeding off the crowd because, you know, everybody is willing her to win every single match. And again, because it's New York, where I was sitting in my studio, I don't know if this came through in the audio and the TV broadcast, but I was thinking I was at a Yankee game because every, like, every like five minutes, this one guy just kept shouting out, let's go, Serena.

And then at some point, though, you sort of started to feel bad for, and at Contivate because, you know, like she gets a double fault, everybody's cheering, and it's like, okay, maybe it's not that cool, and it clearly affected her. And, you know, she talked about it in a post-match conference, and it was, you know, it's a tough moment when you're playing one of the greats all-time, even if she's not what she used to be, she's still a terrific player, obviously, but you're playing to thousands of people a packed house, just rocking at ash. It's a really, it's a tough

environment, it sure is. I mean, and good God, the celebrities were out en masse for that one. What were the tickets going for Monday night? I mean, it was outrageous, right? I don't know specifically,

but I did hear this as I was walking through the ground. There was a sort of obnoxious guy right at the gate and all I heard him say, I guess he couldn't get in, and all He was like, look, I paid $1,000 for these tickets. You're going to let me in right now. So I know at least it was a grand, but I'm sure for something down close,

they had to be going for, I mean, just a premium price. And again, this is a huge stadium. Right. And there was not one seat open. And even last night for the doubles. And by the way, Kevin, when was the last time you saw a doubles match in the first week? You know, it was open. In prime time.

Never. Never. Never. Yeah, you never see it. And again, it was a packed-outs, and that didn't go the way people wanted it to, but it was still so much fun. It doubles is a lot of fun to watch for people to don't check it out a lot. It was a really entertaining match. Mark Stern is joining us. He has a podcast. Courtside at the U.S. Open. He is there covering the entire tournament up in Flushing Meadow. Listen to the podcast, wherever you get a podcast. So obviously the question, and I kind of felt like you did before this started, you know, you know, you know,

I'm a Serena fan, and you haven't been as much of a Serena fan as I've been over the years. But I felt the way you did, which is this is going to end early and that Monday night was potentially going to be it. Now that she's won two matches and beat the number two player, number two seed in this tournament, what are her chances to go super deep? Well, I think her chances are looking good, particularly in this next match. She's playing Ayla Tamyovic, who was a lot like. like, and I contovate, in that she stays back on the baseline. She's a big hitter, which Serena at this stage of her career really likes, because if you're sending the ball with pace at her,

she can fire it back. It's harder for to sort of generate that, the tremendous pace that she had in her younger years. And not somebody that's going to really dictate terms to Serena, move around a lot, you know, hit slice shots and kind of throw the timing off or hit drop shots. and I think that all sort of plays into Serena's hands. So I think she's got a great shot to make it into the fourth round. I think there's one potential match, and it would either be a fourth round match or a quarterfinal match. I can't remember off the top of my head,

but the number five feet on is Jabour. If it plays out like that, because she's really talented, she's been playing really well this year. That could be a really stiff challenge for Serena. But the other thing is, and I said this a bunch, not with you specifically, but a bunch before the tournament, was like, look, I don't think she, I think she's a good chance he's going to lose in the first round.

But if she starts to win and she wins a couple of matches, she gets a little momentum, and that confidence and that swaggerback, then there's no telling how far she could go. And to be honest with you, it's a really wide open field, as it kind of tends to be these days with the women's side of things. So there is definitely a good chance that she could actually win this whole tournament. Like, that's not out of the realm of possibility at all. Yeah, and she, you know, each one of these matches, is, you know, she's not going to play, well, actually, maybe Sunday. She might play a late afternoon match if she wins tonight because sometimes I think the

Sunday match, weekend matches do better during the day. I don't know. I could be wrong about that. But she's going to have home court advantage like nobody's had. And that's going to be, it's going to be interesting to watch. You know, I also said to Tommy yesterday, I said, if she were to win this tournament, as much as much as she has talked about, you know, and everybody assumes based on, you know, the, what was it, the Vogue story. Yeah, the Vogue, yeah, the Vogue story, yeah. That this is it, you know, for her. You know, she said after the match the other than I thought it was interesting,

she said, you know, the results didn't match how well I was playing in practice, you know, earlier in the summer. And if she gets it going here and she wins here, you know, it would be kind of hard after the farewellish kind of toned this whole first week and what it would be next week for her to continue to play. But I kind of have this sense that if she wins, she's going to want to continue to compete. What do you think? Well, I think there's definitely a large part of her that won't want to hang it up

because she doesn't really want to hang it up now. She loves playing and she's a fierce competitor. and she wants to win. And she doesn't want to get off the court. This is something she really loved. The only thing I would push back against that, and she did sort of leave it open, and she never really definitively said,

I'm retiring after the tournament. But when Gail King was interviewing her in that post-match ceremony on Monday, Gail King kind of like asked her about that, said, you know, are you going to keep going? And she pretty definitively, in my mind, said at that point, no, no, no, this is it. You know, so.

but you win, you know, who knows? I mean, you know, it's not etched in stone, but I kind of agree with you. First of all, it would be weird to have the big farewell and then keep it going. And I always, and I think so many people look back in this, it's like, you know, John Elway had that great, you know, ending to his Hollywood story.

You know, you win and you're right off into the sunset. And I think there's something, there's a lot to be said for that to going out on top. You'd rather have that than come back and lose in, like, the first round of Wimbledon again next year or come back here and losing the first round. It kind of sullies the moment. So for me, if she were to win, it would just be such an incredible story. I don't think you can do anything better than that. And for me, not that I have any idea of how it still be a champion like Serena, I would ride out at that point say,

that's it, I'm going out on top. Real quickly, on the men's side, Nadal got through last night, but do you agree? I know. Yeah, it was rough. That was scary. I mean, if people just look at the final score, like, oh, he wanted four sets. You knocked himself out almost. There was a point in that second set. We knocked himself out, but in the second set, he was down a break and not playing well at all. And Funini was just like on fire. And I'm sitting there going, you gotta be kidding me. Rob, you can't grab the second set. But then, of course, it's Rafa, who has 22 Grand Slam. He's like, oh, I'm really good. Watch this. And he just turned, he flipped the switch and was just amazing to write out. Do you view the field as wide open on the men's side as well? A little bit. I mean, there's been so many upsets all over the place.

I mean, top five, top ten players, you know, in the tournament just getting knocked out. I still think it's Danielle Medvedev's tournament to lose. He hasn't been getting a lot of press. I mean, he's playing late after Surveena. Yeah. Nobody's in there. Yeah. Right.

And I think he's enjoying that because he wasn't really clicking on all cylinders coming into this, but he's looked really sharp in his first couple of matches, not playing super high-calibre opponents, but doing what he's supposed to be doing, taking him out very efficiently in three sets. He's so good on hard court, and he's so good here, that I think he's going to be really tough.

I think with Rapa, you worry about, you know, he's coming back from the abdominal injury, and he's not 100%. But as we just talked about, you can never truly count him out. But there is one kid, and I think we've talked about him for, Carlos Alcarez. He's playing so well, and that is somebody that could easily win this tournament. And even if he doesn't win here, Kevin, he's going to win a ton of majors. This kid is the next big thing in tennis. And for those that haven't watched him play, watch him. He is exciting. He's like, you know, he fires up the crowd, and his shot-making ability is just astonishing. And it gets to everything. I don't remember being that. Like, I mean, he's so young. Like, well, of course you get to everything.

I mean, when I was young, I couldn't get to anything, and he's just, he's all over the court. Carlos Alcraz is from Spain, and he is really over the last year, taken men's tennis a little bit by storm. He's got great sort of charisma and star appeal, and he's the number of three seed in this draw. You know who I'm rooting for. I'm rooting for Curios, but he, I think if he could win too, yeah, if he gets through this next match tonight, I think it's Medvedev in the fourth round. Because he didn't get any points at Wimbledon for getting to the finals.

He's the 23. Right. He's seated 2030. He would have been seated. He would have been a top 10 seed and wouldn't have faced somebody like Medvedev this early. That could be one hell of a Sunday afternoon, you know, afternoon, Sunday night match if it's Medvedev and Curios. Great job. I appreciate it.

follow Mark on Twitter at Mark Stern, Mark with a C, stern with an E, and listen to Quartzside at the U.S. Open, his podcast. If you're a tennis fan, he's doing a great job with that. This is certainly from a sports standpoint one of his first loves, although the Red Sox are the number one. First love and everything else pales in comparison. Well, I want to thank you, Kevin. And you and I have had so many great tennis conversations over the years.

What are the other ones? I know. I know. But we grew up with Connors and Maconeroon, Cripsy and Averte-Slova, and that passion still lies within me. I know it's still within you. And I love talking tennis with you. So this is a real great thing.

Is there an American? Does Francis Tiafo have a chance to advance here? Who does he have next? Because I know he won. I should know, and I don't know off the top of my head. I know who he does. did win his match. I think, oh, you know, I think he played Diego Schwartzman, which would be a tough matchup

for him because Schwartzman is just one of those guys that never quits and never goes away. Here's the thing with Tiafo, he's super talented, he's really, and he's great, you know, he's got great energy. He just, he gets to a certain point of tournament and he can't get past like the fourth round

of the quarter-final. He's due for a deeper run, but I've got, until he does that, I'm always going to wait for that shoot a drop. It's like, this is the round where he just sort of falters. But I hope that's not the case because I love watching him play. For those that don't know, Francis Tiafo, a product of that college park tennis complex. Yeah. Yeah. And he's done really well as a professional player. All right, thank you for doing this.

I'll talk to you soon. Be good, man. Bye. All right. That's it for the show. Thanks to Mark. Thanks to Stanford, Steve. Thanks to London, Fletcher. I know it was a long show today, but you've got all weekend, a holiday weekend, to listen to it. Although, although I will be back on Monday with a podcast. All right, I will be doing a podcast on Monday, Labor Day. I'll be back on radio on Tuesday. Stay safe, have a good holiday weekend. Next week, we'll get into all of our NFL predictions and start building towards the NFL's week one,

including, of course, a Washington's first ever game as the commanders in the regular season.