The Kevin Sheehan Show - A Cooley & Kevin Day

Episode Date: April 3, 2020

Cooley and Kevin spent close to 90 minutes discussing several Redskins and NFL topics. The guys talked about DeAngelo Hall's comments about Dwayne Haskins, Ron Rivera, and Kyle Allen. D-Hall said that he doesn't see Dwayne Haskins as the Skins' starter next year. The guys talked about Chase Young, possible trade down scenarios, and Cooley weighed in on Skins' free agency so far. Also on the show, Cooley on what his draft day was like back in 2004. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, Aaron's here. I'm here. Coolly is on the phone from his home out in Northern Virginia. And he joins us on the podcast today. So we're going to do a Cooley and Kevin show today. I'm going to play for you the DeAngelo Hall comments from the NFL network. If you haven't heard him, you have to hear him. because DeAngelo Hall essentially doesn't believe that Dwayne Haskins will be the starting quarterback for the Redskins next year. So we'll get to that and a few other things. But how are you and Maddie and the kids holding up through all of this?

We're great. We're just trying to find stuff to do. We've been out shooting baskets for the last hour. That's fun. We've been doing that in our backyard a lot. teaching my daughter how to dribble. So she got 10 dribbles today, and that was cool. And doing some yard work.

Teaching her the right way, head up, ball low, keep that ball low. Finger tips? Yeah, fingertips is what we're working on today. I mean, keep in mind she's five, and we're working on getting consecutive dribbles, so really we're just working on the ball. We're looking for consecutive dribbles.

Yes. She got 10. That's good. That's really good. Is she right-handed or left-handed? She's right-handed. Got to work on that off-hand, too. You know, Cooley... Yeah, she's actually good with two-hand. My son is the one that is very right-handed. My daughter is pretty good with both hands doing a lot of things.

My son is only right-handed. So your daughter, as when Charles Shackleford once said, is amphibious. Yeah, she's amphibious. He swims well. You know, I've told so many of my friends this who have young kids or younger kids, the number one thing when it comes to basketball with a young kid to teach him is ball handling. Like, if they can handle the ball, if they can learn how to handle the ball, it doesn't matter about the rest of it.

At a young age, they will have so much success because most kids, when they start playing basketball at a young age are weak ball handlers. They can't handle the ball. And the kid that can really handle it is basically moving his or her way through the entire court on his or her way to a layup.

But ball handling is everything. The rest of it will come. But ball handling is the thing that if you learn it at a super young age, it sticks with you. And shooting is important too, but ball handling. You can be a really good shooter as a young kid, but if you can't handle the ball, you're not going to have the kind of success.

That'll lead to confidence. That'll lead to really enjoying, you know, what you're doing. Ball handling is everything. Right, and she only shoots granny shots, which is driving me absolutely crazy right now. But we'll move on from that. Well, I actually, I finally, I've been looking at hoops that go down lower because I put in a hoop a few years ago. I mean, you stopped. Yeah.

And it only goes down to about 11 feet. It only goes down to about five and a half, six feet, six feet probably. So you want one that goes lower? Well, yeah, I'm getting another one that goes from three feet to seven feet. But they know the difference between a fake hoop and a real hoop. So I do have to get somewhat of a real hoop, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yes, you do.

So what are you doing? Because you and I talked last week, and I think on the show the next day, because I had talked to you, I had talked to Scott, you know, friends of mine with young kids. And it's, to me, you guys have the biggest challenge. You know, of the families that are hunkering down, staying at home, it's so much easier for me with older kids than I think it is for families with younger kids. You said basically you have to entertain them, sun up to sundown nearly. Well, they never leave your side.

there's almost always one of them right next to one of us. Right. And so, yeah, it's constantly engaging them, entertaining them. What we started doing was just trying to walk. So I took them yesterday for like a mile walk. And that wears them down enough to calm them down for a while. Right. They're good, man.

It's good. The funny thing is, is as kids get older, they would tell you that they're getting sick of you. I can tell our kids are getting sick of us, too. Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're ready to have some engagement from friends or from other people.

And so there's... One of our friends has two little girls, and they ended up buying us the thing called a portal so they can talk to each other. Right. Which is pretty cool. Like, they can call each other on their portal. Yeah.

It's a boxy-looking iPad thing. So it's good and bad because now my son knows how to do it. So he calls, and we have like my uncle, or my brother-in-law and sister-in-law, mom and stuff. And if we're not careful, they're on the portal calling someone at any time of the day. Right. But, yeah, it's good, man. It's good. This whole thing's really interesting.

You can tell it's going to go on for a while. So we'll see how it plays out. Are they – I haven't asked you this, and I don't think I've asked Scott this either. What do they think? I mean, Sloan's old enough, right, to sort of recognize that things are much different than they used to be. Are they worried? I mean, what is a younger kid think about all of this? I don't think she's old enough to be worried.

She calls it the sickness. After you and I talked, I tried to get her to call it the Wuhan virus. Oh, stop. I didn't advocate that you tell your daughter. daughter to call it the Wuhan virus. Yeah, you did. No, I didn't. Let's be honest. You said, tell your kids, it's the Wuhan virus.

I did not say that. I did not say that. But, no, she's been good. Maddie's parents came over for a while yesterday in her family. And, I mean, they've been, they've been two weeks. I'm assuming they're fine, but they still, we still all hang out outside. and Sloan said, I can't get close to you. So, I mean, I think they understand it. Or she does?

Yeah. I don't know, man. She's been fine with it. You just got to keep them busy, keep them entertained. And that's fun for a while. Yeah, it's nuts. I mean, I think, you know, you and I did the podcast together a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, whatever it was. It feels like two days ago.

No, it wasn't two days ago. It seems like it probably... It said it feels like two days ago. Well, I mentioned this yesterday when on April 1st, which was two days ago, a friend of mine said, God, it's a damn good thing. We moved on from March 91st because that's what it felt like. March had... March was the longest month of our lives, pretty much. Oh, my gosh. And it's like, if it would just be warmer outside, that would be huge. Well, we've had a couple of warm days, but, God, the last two days have been windy, and sort of chilly.

And, you know, I'm wondering, you know, you live, I know how built up Loudoun County is, I understand that, but you live in a more, in a less densely populated area than I do. I live close in suburbs to D.C. And you live further out. Do you have more of a sense of that you're in a better shape out there than you would be living in close where there are more people? Well, I think in part it's where it is more.

I mean, I'm in Loudoun County, and obviously it's everywhere, but there's not as many cases in Loudoun County, and maybe that's because there's not as much testing. I don't know the exact answers to that. But to be honest with you, no, I can't answer that question, because I went to the gas station to get gas so I could power wash three days ago. the only time I've been in my car for 10 days. Yeah. I've just stayed at home. Yeah, you're, I mean, I've been coming in to do the show, the radio show and the podcast to the studio. Now, you know,

it's isolated and there's really few people, if any, in the building. And it's, you know, a mile from my house. So I do get into the car every day. But I'll tell you what, if I didn't come in here to do this, I think I'd be going crazy right now. I mean, lots of dog walks, obviously, around the neighborhood. We talked about that last time. But, yeah, it's, yeah, I mean, you, I don't know, you're out there and it just seems like the air is cleaner and there's more distance between you and the homes around you. We're on top of each other here. We are not close. I mean, everyone's on three, four, five acres right here. Yeah. I'm not concerned really about getting it based on the way we've been staying at home.

I mean, my wife went to the grocery store for an hour the other day. But I'm really, I don't think we have a lot of concerns because we really social distance. Are you wearing a mask? For what? I don't go out. My wife's making masks. She's been sewing masks. God, she's the best.

She's making masks. That's impressive. We ordered them about a week ago, and there was a projected date. I think of this weekend that they're supposed to arrive. I don't know if that's true or not. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get them. I have a bunch of masks. I mean, not a bunch, like, I'm going to help a hospital by giving the masks,

but because of some of the art stuff and some of the pottery things and spraying stuff, I have three or four and 95 masks, and then one big auto body mask. I don't know. I have not put on a mask. Okay. All right, let's talk about what people tuned in to hear today, and that is some talk about. the Redskins and football in general.

I'm going to play for you what DeAngelo Hall said on the network. I think it was late Thursday. He said this on the NFL, or late Wednesday. This is what he said to on the NFL network about the Redskins quarterback situation. I think the jury's stood out on this kid. I don't think you can totally judge a kid off of,

you know, Robert Rivera is a former player. If you're in a player's mind, I'm thinking this. We told this kid he wasn't playing. And so he obviously did not get in his playbook. Then when we found out, when we finally told him, hey, we're going to throw you in. We throw him in the middle of a game. He's unprepared. And then we see him gradually get a little bit better.

But still not the way we really want him to, you know, perform at the quarterback position. I think by just not trusting him right now, it's saying like a whole lot. And, you know, I don't think Duane Haskins is going to respond. A lot of young kids don't respond. That style of coaching. Robert Bear is a old school mentality type of. coach. He wants competition. These young guys, they want things given to them. I would have loved to see Duane Haskins get the opportunity to be this starting quarterback in Washington, not have a

talented guy like Kyle Allen behind him, a more veteran season guy behind him that he knows the kings are his, and he can fully go out there, make mistakes, and just be young and energetic. With Kyle Allen breathing down your throat, you are not going to be able to make many mistakes. And so I don't know how he wins his starting job, man. I mean, I really don't. Robert Vera, knowing Kyle Allen. I don't know how he wins this starting job. You know, Kyle Allen, with Kyle and Allen, Kyle Allen breathing down his neck, Dwayne's a young kid.

Young kids need to be handed things. Old school versus new school. You know, Rivera doesn't trust him right now. That's why he made the trade. What did you make of what you just heard from D. Hall? I think he made the trade in part because of what you kind of brought up to me with Cam Newton and then in discussing would you want somebody to be able to run this offense if you didn't really have time to install this offense?

Kyle Allen is not a talented guy. I don't think Kyle Allen will be competing to start. I don't think it'll win the starting job. I think it's the safety blanket, especially for the backup quarterback to know the offense if something happens, Duane, or if hell breaks, loops with the way he plays, but even at that,

I still see him as a growing quarterback. The jury still out. DeAngelo Hall is absolutely correct on that. Yeah, of course. That, I don't think, is, for me, anything that I would debate. I'm not convinced on Dwayne Haskins at this point.

I think that you, and I and a lot of people pre-draft even thought the floor was maybe lower. I don't think the floor is as low as maybe I did before he got here. But you thought there was, you thought there was significant bus potential. Yeah, I thought that there was, I don't know if I thought he was a bus. I don't know. It's not that you said you thought he was. When you evaluated him when he was in college. You said you thought there was bust potential there for him. You saw a lot of things you liked, but you thought there was bus potential. I certainly didn't see him as a first rounder. Now, that said, it's funny when you say that, everybody thinks that you see him as a bust

or as a guy that you should never draft. I would have had no problem with him as a second or into the third. Right. You said that too. So I just didn't see him as a first round quarterback. And I'm not sure he's going to be a first-round quarterback. I'm not sure he's going to be one of the top 15 quarterbacks in the league. That said, I think as he develops, he's got a chance to be a starter for a long time if he continues to grow. I'm not concerned about who the starting quarterback. Duane Haskins's starting quarterback. I'm nearly sure of that.

And I'm also nearly sure that there won't be competition, that it'll be Dwayne Haskins' job from the start. So I feel pretty confident saying that. And I don't think Kyle Allen is an answer as a starting quarterback. I watched Kyle Allen play a few games last year and watch it on film before we played them. And everybody watched Kyle Allen's absolute meltdown against the Reds team's defense. Right. So, yeah, Duane's a better player than Kyle Allen. So a couple things. Number one, I agree with you.

I think Duane's a better player. I think also I agree with you. I think Duane's going to start. I think there's the one possibility that you end up with this continuing and you get a weird schedule, which leads to a very condensed training camp with nothing else leading into a season opener with no preseason or whatever, maybe one preseason game. And maybe that would give Kyle Allen an early edge. I actually disagree with you about Kyle Allen.

I went back and watched a lot of those games when they made the trade for him. I actually had suggested that he would be a target potentially. I was thinking, you know, if they let him go. He was a restricted free agent. They actually signed him to a one-year deal because I think they knew there was some interest in him. I don't think the Redskins were the only team that would have been interested in trading for him. There was a report that Belichick and the Patriots were actually interested. I think there were games that I watched that he was terrible in,

and there were games that I watched that made it very clear he can play. like he's a sort of a system guy. You've got to have a running game, you know, but he can make plays. He can make every throw. I actually saw a guy that's pretty talented. I don't think he's going to start. I don't think that's why they traded for him. And here's why, more than anything else,

and I really want you to tell me if you think I'm right or not. I don't think Ron Rivera would be here as the Redskins coach if he didn't commit to make him. Haskins work to a certain degree. I don't think Dan would have given the job to Rivera, offered the job to Rivera, or Rivera would have taken it, unless there was a significant discussion about Haskins and about what Ron Rivera thinks about Haskins. One of the first things he said in that initial introductory press conference is they had Dwayne as a first round guy. You know, he has said things about Dwayne's leadership, commitment, all of those things. He's also said, and he

said it after the Kyle Allen trade, it's Dwayne's job to lose. I just don't believe that Rivera could have walked into a meeting with Snyder or had a conversation with Snyder that said, you know, I'm just not sure. We'll just have to see what happens. I'm going to look at the guys in the draft. I'm going to look at guys in free agency. There's a guy down here that we coach this year, that's young that we believe in, that Scott believes in. I'm not exactly sure. He will see. I mean, he's got some talent, but I can't guarantee you anything as far as Dwayne goes. We're going to go with what we think is best for the team and to win. And then I don't think Dan would have offered him the job.

That's completely fair. I would agree that it played out exactly, as you said, that's exactly how the Jay Gruden hiring played out as well. Well, what I just described, the way it played out to me is the opposite of that. Rivera said I like him. he's going to be our starter. We're going to give him every chance to be our starter. I think he can be the starter for the next 10 years, and certainly he's going to get an opportunity to prove it on the field. And that's all Dan needed here. And you don't think Jay said that about Robert? No, I absolutely think Jay said that about Robert.

I absolutely do, but there was a big difference. Jay didn't have any other opportunities. Rivera could have – Rivera would have been hired more likely than not had he not been offered this job or if he had turned it down. I think there's a chance. Yeah. I think it's likely that he probably would have had the Giants job. Very likely he would have had the Giants job. So he didn't, Gruden had to sell Dan on RG3's the guy, I believe in him. We can turn him into a drop-back quarterback. You can assure Robert and his father and all the people that, you know,

I can turn this guy into a drop-back quarterback. I mean, how quickly did it, did Jay learn that that wasn't true? It happened pretty quickly, but, you know, Jay had to do that to get a head coaching job. Rivera didn't have to do that. My point is, my point is he can still do whatever he wants to do once he has the head coaching job. Yes. But I don't see him bringing in Kyle Allen as a starter. Yeah.

So when I say that, I don't know exactly the way he played it out, but I think that if, relationship-wise things went bad with Duane in any way, shape, or form, or if Duane played poorly, then we would talk about it. But, I mean, with Rivera, we can go all the way back to Cam Newton not wearing this tie on the bus. One of your favorite, favorite, you know, little rants on radio. What? You're not wearing a tie? Yeah. I got to find me off. audio of that. Yeah, I could probably have Greg find it one day.

But yeah, but Cam Newton was a guy that has had a little prima donna, and he seemed to be just fine with Ron. Everybody seems to have been just fine with Ron. I mean, that's encouraging. I mean, Steve Smith, Senior wasn't, but every single person that we've heard loved Ron Rivera. Josh Norman, who had nothing to gain because he knew he was heading out of town, you know, said the best things ever about Ron Rivera. The players, Keeckley, all of them have said, you guys are in for a treat. So back to Kyle Allen for a moment. So you watched his tape leading up to the game that they played in Charlotte.

Have you gone back and seen some of those? early starts. He was a five-and-one starting quarterback playing pretty damn well. I think the other day I added it up. It was like nine touchdowns, two interceptions, 67 percent completion percentage. Like he was really playing well. They played some very good defensive teams like San Francisco. That did not go well. They had that Green Bay game in the snow in which I actually thought he played very well in. And then for whatever reason. I watched that game live. He played all right. right in that game. He played just... I thought he competed really well. Okay. Well, he also had some skewed numbers from Christian McCaffrey and some of the things he did

run after the catchwise and making easy gross go running back. I'm not sitting here telling you that Kyle Allen can never play football in the NFL. I'm just telling you that Kyle Allen is a backup, in my opinion. Now, that said, he's a undrafted rookie who got a great chance, and he only played what, 12 games, so he could get much better. He's not there. He's not there. He's a yet. Right. Now there's Dwayne, but I just see Dwayne having way more talent. I do too. So we'll end up seeing how that plays out, Kev. How about when D. Hall talked about the, you know, sort of the old school, young school, Dwayne needs it to be given to him. He needs to be able to play carefree, etc. And he's not, he essentially said he's not going to handle this well. Well, I see that is,

enough people around the building or guys in that locker room telling Duane or telling DiAngelo Hall, that's how they see Duane, which is, I think, slightly concerning. But also Duane was a rookie with the staff who didn't believe in him, and it was hard to, I mean, there's a lot of circumstance that went into how Duane felt, how Duane was handled, how Duane actually is as a teammate. He's got some new school to him. there's no question about that, though. And without saying anything from locker room stuff that you would look at,

look at some of the things he did on Twitter or social media last year. To new school, retweeting positive grades from pro football focus is not a thing. It's normal. To you and I, it's silly. Like, let other people do that for you. You know, blocking people who put out bad charts on you, on social media is not something that old school would do. And Duane does that.

And some of his press conferences, I mean, wanting to say, yeah, I talked to Dan, and he told the doctors, or the doctors told him, or whatever, you know, some of the things he's done publicly are not old school. So I think you can look at that as somewhat telling of, Wayne Haskins. But keep in mind, he's a young kid. We had some great success at Ohio State and doesn't want to hear things that are negative about him. Tweeting out his good pro football focus, you know, reports and numbers and not tweeting out the bad ones and, you know, selfies on the sideline and taking number seven and some of the press conferences and all of that.

you know, to me, well, by the way, he did respond to this on Twitter yesterday to DeAngelo Hall. At least I think it's his response. Can't stand fake love. You know, again, I mean, I'm with you. Like, stop. Don't, you know, it just makes, I understand that all the young people are doing it, coolly. But it just makes you look so sensitive and insecure. And the thing about Haskins that I've loved from the jump is I think he's very competitive.

He certainly plays that way on the field. And to me, a guy that came out of Ohio State beat out Joe Burrow, almost beat out J.T. Barrett, a guy that was in the true, you know, big limelight of Ohio State football. I mean, hell, let's be honest, there isn't a game that he's played in professional football at this point that can even remotely compare to the pressure and the crowds and the attention he got in some of those Ohio State Big Ten games. You know, he's been through the gauntlet already. He's competed for a job with Urban Meyer as the coach. So I don't really see him having a problem with the competition or needing it to be handed to him.

With that said, you know, the marketing company and the clothing line company and him responding to this on Twitter, I can't stand that part of it. But, you know, most people would just say, shut up, boomer. you know, I mean, and that's fine too, but I'm not going to change my mind. I don't see him responding incredibly well to an open discussion of competition. Really? But I think that's fair. I mean, he should be the starting quarterback.

He was drafted. He played well. I don't think he should be. I don't, I mean, Kyle Allen would have to be the month. administratively better for it to even be a consideration at any point going in. And by the way, if there is no OTAs and you get some of this cut into training camp, it's going to be hard to even show that you're that much better. I guess they'll have a good feel for who Allen is.

But I don't see this as a competition in any way, shape, or form. That said, if it got made into one, I don't see DeWain handling it well. And also to respond to that tweet to DeAngelo Hall. it's not fake love. DePaul probably likes Dwayne Haskins, and he's probably been cool and shown him love in person, and all he's doing is stating his opinion on Dwayne as a professional quarterback, not as Dwayne as a guy.

I don't know. I guess a little bit, a little bit calling him New School a little bit. Yeah, that he's not going to be able to respond to that. If you don't want to be called New School, don't do New School things. it's sort of ironic right de angelo hall at one point in his career was basically referred to as me angelo because he did a lot of at that time young school things and by the way i think nobody transformed sort of the early narrative on himself more than de angelo hall did during his career here you know i i think people felt much differently about him at the end of his career than they did maybe at the beginning of

his career but you know de angelo probably had a lot of young school versus old school in him when he was a young player? No, no question about it. I mean, and I watched, we were in the same draft together. I knew DeAngelo Hall before he came here. And so being around him, most of his professional career, there was no question that he could completely change. I mean, I don't want to say he's a different person,

but he changed how he handled a lot of these situations. And there's no question about that either. What was he like when he first got to Washington in 2008, right? I think he'd been beaten down a little bit in Atlanta, at least in the media and stuff, that he had toned it down a little bit. He was absolutely 100% convinced in himself, which, by the way, good football players should be. Right. But D. Hall's never been anything but a hard worker.

Now, in his first couple years in Atlanta, having a chance to meet him a couple off seasons or be around him when he was working out. DeAngelo Hall was the best thing that there had ever been. But that's a lot of young corners. So I got no problem with the year, the way he's acted, or the way he's transformed. And I got no problem with him saying anything about Dwayne Haskins. And I also don't believe it to be fake love because I think Dwayne, or D'Angelo Hall probably wants to see Dwayne have success.

And that's the same, I guess I'm saying that because that's how I feel. I don't care if I'm wrong on Dwayne Atkins on a pre-draft evaluation. It was what I thought. I said it. I believed it firmly. I still have some doubt. I also really liked Dwayne, had a chance to really get to know him,

have not showed him fake love, but I'm still not 100% sure on his development. Is all that fair? Of course it is. I think it's all fair. But a lot of young people don't take it that way, because they, I shouldn't say young people. A lot of people in general don't accept criticism very well,

and they misinterpret criticism. The way you just laid it out is perfectly fair. You know, it's like you like him personally, you want him to succeed, but based on, you know, you as an analyst evaluating him as a player, you're not sure yet. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Nothing.

I think that DeAngelo took a couple of shots at him, but at the same time, I think what he was also saying is he was saying that he believes that the arrival of Kyle Allen is Ron Rivera essentially speaking about what he thinks about Dwayne Haskins. And I don't know if that's true. I don't know if I buy that necessarily. Again, I go back to Rivera wouldn't be here. He wouldn't have been offered the job if he actually didn't believe that Haskins had a chance to be pretty good. And if he wasn't going to give Dwayne a chance to be pretty good. Now, that doesn't mean he's going to hand it to him. And to me, by the way, Kyle Allen, Cooley, isn't Brett Hundley or Matt Moore? He's a higher level than that because of the Carolina connection and the system familiarity, et cetera, not to mention that I actually liked, I liked them last year at times. I liked them at Texas A&M, too, but whatever.

He's going to have to show me a lot to say that he's not more than a Matt Moore-Hungley at this point. I'm saying the perception, hold on, let me back up. Okay, okay, okay. The way Ron Rivera can present him as legitimate competition, so Dwayne feels it, if that's what he wants Dwayne to feel, I think he's got a much better shot at doing that with Kyle Allen than he does with Matt Moore or Brett Hundley. Like, to me, when I saw the, first of all, they traded for the player. They sent a fifth rounder to Charlotte.

Just by, you know, immediately that elevates that player into a level that's different from the guy, the veteran that you're going to sign on a one-year veteran minimum deal to be the true backup. But the fact that he also coached him, and so did Scott Turner, and they liked him, and he started 12 games for them, I think he can present him as, you know, formidable competition. Like, Dwayne... Yeah, I just don't believe he's going to do that. You don't believe he's going to do that? I'm telling you right now he's not going to do that.

Who's not going to do what? Ron is not going to present any form of competition to Wayne. Really? Why would you? I don't see any real gain in that. I see Allen as a safety blanket. He said at the Combine, what kind of competition do you want for Dwayne?

Very competitive competition. He wants everybody to compete. He said we're going to bring in somebody. That doesn't mean he wants him to necessarily compete for a job at all time. He wants to breed competition in the building. You're saying that he's essentially going to hand it to Dwayne and say, this is your gig. We brought in Kyle Allen to be your backup.

Yeah, to say whatever you want to say. My belief is that even I don't think he presents it. I don't think it ever comes up. I think Duane is the starting quarterback. I would be blown away if anybody else became the starting quarterback besides Alex Smith. Well, that's not going to happen. Well, there's Kyle Allen competing for the job. I mean, you didn't throw out Alex Smith there because you think that there's still a chance

Alex Smith's going to play. I just like to hear you respond to me when you do that. Okay. Also wanted to play this for you. This was Stephen A. Smith yesterday on first take. I've been told that the Washington Redskins are not going to touch a tour because they're going after Chase Young. That's what Daniel Snyder wants them to do and they're not drafting a quarterback.

That's what I've been told. So we'll see what happens. That's what I reported weeks ago. Okay. The reason I wanted to play what Stephen A said is not because, you know, most of us don't think they're going to draft Chase Young. I think they are. And I want to get to some of that with you here in a moment.

But it's because of what he said, you know, the reason they were going to draft Chey Chung, because that's what Dan Snyder wants to do. You know, I think at this point when people say things like that, they are just throw away default positions, by the way, totally reasonable and justifiable to say that any sort of personnel move needs to have the have it stands. or, you know, Dan Snyder's got to be on it, and it's Dan Snyder's team, and he's going to make all those decisions. But there's no, all of us know that there's legitimate reason to think that way.

I just don't think that way now. I think that at the very least, there's a honeymoon period here for Ron Rivera. And I think that, you know, Ron Rivera and Dan Snyder talked about the quarterback position long ago and that a quarterback's not going to be somebody, the Red Haskins are going to consider it number two. It's going to be Haskins and they're going to take Chase Young. But it would be frightening, wouldn't it, if, you know, two months into this thing already, three months into it, whatever it would be at this point, that already, you know, Ron Rivera only has a vote when he's home alone, you know, and that wouldn't be a good thing.

What do you think about that? Do you agree with me or not? I 100% agree with you. And I think it would be. we could make this an argument in some way if it wasn't Chase Young. You know, if it was another guy that, let's just say, people like, but weren't sure of, or a position that you probably didn't need, or this is, to me, the easiest pick that there's ever going to be. And the other thing with this whole deal is you've got to keep in mind, none of these guys have draft rooms.

A lot of these, most of these guys can't go to their facility out of the fairness issue. You can't go to your facility in California, so you can't go to the Redskins facility right now. So they don't, the worry rooms are going to be completely different. This is a draft that you're not going to see a bunch of trades in,

in my opinion. People probably play this thing safe across the board through the first round, at least. And it's not Dan Snyder that's going to pick Chase Young. it's anybody drafting it too. The only thing, the only thing that makes it interesting is if somehow someone wants to move up to number two for Tua and promises you that, or the Bengals want to make a trade or for some reason wanted Chase Young instead of Burroughs.

I mean, if Chase Young's sitting there too, I would say 95%, 99% chance for Redskins take him. But I don't see them moving out of two to take anybody else. or drafting to it, number two. Clinton told me on the show the other day he'd take Isaiah Simmons at number two. Okay. What? Did he? Yeah, he thinks that Isaiah Simmons is the next Lawrence Taylor.

He said, he says, I love Chase Young, but Isaiah Simmons is going to be the next Lawrence Taylor. That's who I would take. And I said, would you try to trade back and get him? No, I would take him at number two. Well, you wouldn't take him at number two, though, because Chase Young's going to go at number two if the Redskins don't take him at number two. Well, I mean, the problem is if, like, let's just say that Clinton was right, that all of a sudden, and Isaiah Simmons is being talked about as, you know, a top three, top four, you know, possible player. He ran a four-three-nine at the combine, and, you know, personally, I've watched him play.

I've watched all the highlight stuff. To me, it's Chase Young. I mean, I wouldn't even think twice about it. But the problem with the draft is that, you know, the Redskins, if they really liked Isaiah Simmons, like if they had Simmons sort of comparable with Chase Young, like he was right. Not sort of.

Very comparable. Very comparable with Chase Young. All right. Same grade. Just say same grade. they risk losing both of them by trading back. There's no guarantee. It depends on how far you trade back.

It depends on where you trade back. Well, I mean, the first trade back opportunity, more likely than not, is five, you know, with Miami. So you now have Miami jumping up to take Tua, and now Young and Simmons very possibly go three and four to Detroit, New York. And so you're sitting there at five, and maybe you got a haul with, with, with, you mean, number five for number two, but you missed out on maybe the, well, Todd McShay calls it the best pass rushing prospect he's ever evaluated. Others think that he's every bit as good, if not better than Bosa. And you also miss out on Simmons. I think there'd be too much risk for the Redskins to trade back and assume that they'd get one of those two players.

To five, I think that way too much risk. I think if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, you're actually considering trading back to five, it's that you don't believe that you need a guy like Chase Young on the edge, and you have other needs that are much more valuable. Like no second round pick, and no, you know, if you were to make a trade with someone, like, let's say, who has two first rounders? Miami, Miami. Miami is three first rounders. Right, right, right. Yeah, if you were to swap with Miami and get all their first rounders, I think that'd be interesting.

Well, let's talk about it, because how interesting. This is where you get into, you know, the possibilities, because it's very likely the Redskins are going to get offers. You know, from teams, you know, Miami to Chargers, other teams that want a quarterback that don't want Miami to take two at five. They may want to jump ahead. Now, they could jump to Detroit. They could deal with Detroit because most people. I think believe that the Redskins aren't going to take a quarterback. The problem with that is, you know, the only chance you have of making sure you're ahead of everybody

if Joe Burrow goes number one is to get to number two. So Miami's got five, they've got 18, and they've got 26 in the first round. So is that enough? You know, most of the proposed, you know, hypothetical trades give the Redskins, Miami's 18th or their 26th along with number 5, and their number 2nd. To me, that's not enough. No, it would have to be next year's first as well. Yeah, exactly.

I want an RG3 kind of deal to jump from 6 to 2. And by the way, the draft value chart doesn't do you any good in this. This is context. This is a team desperate for a quarterback. And by the way, taking away a dominant potential pass rusher. So you're going to have to give up more than what the draft trade value chart tells you. No, I'm absolutely with you. When it's a quarterback, it's almost like, let's take the draft value chart and times it by two.

So if you were in the Redskins decision-making group, and let's just say that you had the final call, Chase Young, or you get Miami's number five, you get Miami's number 18, you get Miami's second, round pick, which is, you know, a couple of picks into the second round, and you get a future number one. Okay, so you're basically swapping two for five, and you're picking up two first rounders and a second rounder. Would you do it? One of the first rounders is next year. I mean, if you made the trade with Miami, right, where's Miami? You'd get their five, they're 20. No, I just gave it to you. You'd get five, you'd get 18, you would get 39, which is their first second round pick, and you'd get their next year's number one.

So you're swapping spots, two for five. They go to two, you go to five, and you're picking up another first round pick at 18. You're picking up a second round pick, which you don't own currently at 39 overall, and you're picking up next year's number one. Would you do it? I think that you would absolutely consider that type of a trade. Well, then you don't – You're not all in on Chase Young.

Yeah, I am. But you're going to take the cornerback out of Ohio State at 5, Okuda. Yep. You have a chance. Well, you're going to have a chance out of either Okuda, young, or Simmons, depending on what happens in the following picks after two of goes, okay, at 5. Okuda would be the worst case for you and me because we both love Young 1, and I like Simmons too.

you're not going to have a chance it's going to go burrow young Tua Simmons 1, 2, 3, 4 Well, no, no, no, if the Redskins traded it would go burr a 2a, 2a. Okay, and then the Redskins would be sitting there at 5 because the dolphins would have taken 2 at 2. Okay, okay, yeah, so

then you got a chance, I mean, I still see those players going 1, 2, 3, 4 no matter what even if there's another trade. Yeah, so you end up with Okuda, fine. So you end up with Okoot-at-5. You get a chance, depending on the Trent situation, the draft in offensive tackle.

People say that it's a really great-o-tackle draft. Nobody's in this draft is Trent. There's not. Trent's not in this draft. Not that kind of player. There's some good players. There's not Trent Williams. But you get a chance that potentially Ruggs or Jerry Judy would be.

Not at 18. Judy's not there at 18. But you do it. You could also continue to trade. But this is where I think of what I said to you is going to come into play is do you feel like you're going to get the kind of players you want at the picks that you're talking about? Because if you're not, those trades might not be available this year.

They might be harder to come by. I mean, I'm going through this exercise with you to really find out what you really think of Chase Young. Because if Chish... I think Chayshund is as good of a football player as I've seen coming out of college in a long time, as well as Joe Burrow. As good as I've seen in a long time,

I think Chishung is an elite professional pass rusher right away. I think that he has every skill set. I'm blown away by Chay Shung. I'm blown away by Isaiah Simmons as well, but... Chish Young is amazing to me. And he plays a position that, you know, arguably is the second most important position on a football field.

And it's also a guy that you're going to draft that you have under a rookie contract for five years. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, you know, assuming all of the, you know, due diligence, character, all that stuff, which everybody has said will come up, you know, all thumbs up, it's not even like you, you would have to offer me almost one and a half times what I offered you to get me to move off Chase Young. Like, I need Miami's number five.

I need their number 18. I need their number 26. I need their second rounder. And I need a future first. Like I just gave myself three first round picks, a second round pick, and a future first round pick from Miami. If you tell me that you're going to give me that kind of a deal, I'll consider it. Other than that, anything short of that, I'm taking a player that is going to impact games for years to come

more than any other player I could take in this draft. Other than Borough. You're not going to get all that, but you could get three first this year. Okay, so if Miami offered 518 and 26 to move up four spots, you know what? I don't know if it's enough. I don't see, I'm with you on Young. It's funny because, you know, I've said about the Clemson playoff game for Chase Young.

I'm like, if you're at one of these box score readers, then you think Chase Young failed miserably in the game. If you actually watched the game, then you realize what they were doing to him and how much of a factor he was in the game. And this guy, Daniel Jeremiah, do you know who he is, the guy from NFL Network? Yeah. He said, hold on, let me find it. I had it up here a second ago. He said about Chase Young, who he believes the Redskins will take it number two overall as well. He said, those who think Chase Young disappeared in the big games are those who don't watch the tape.

He was everywhere. And so, I don't know. I mean, I love watching college football. We get a chance to see all these Ohio State games. You can watch the tape. Simmons is really exciting. There are some really good players in this draft. nobody will wreck a game defensively like Chase Young will in the future.

I mean, again, he could get injured, or he could have some character issues that we don't know about, and all those things need to be taken into consideration. But the tape says that he, and to me, this guy, Derek Brown from Auburn, are going to be two game wreckers for years to come. If you think you've got Nick Bosa, I don't care what you're offering me, because he's going to elevate the rest of your defense. that's the thing that you've got to remember is how much better does he make everybody else on the field

how much pressure does he take off everybody else while still making play and that's what I see in Chase Young that's why it's hard to move away from Chase Young for a not sure thing at 18 and 26 yeah you're getting a short thing at 5 because I think you're getting a CUDA and I see him as an absolute short thing.

You do? But I don't, yes, he's awesome. So I like getting a kuda. He's not going to change the game, the way Chase Young will change the game, but he's a guy you can play man coverage a lot with. But at the same time, that's not necessarily been Carolina's defensive forte.

They've been a cover three zone defense team, and that's what they're going to be this year. They'll mix coverages, but they'll be predominantly a, single high safety zone team so i i don't see him as having massive need for that how much college evaluation stuff have you done i should do more it's actually hard to watch some college film right now uh because the internet everywhere is low and so it freezes a bunch and it's a little frustrating to be honest with you i haven't you know what knock on what i haven't had

internet issues. But I heard that there were going to be issues because in part so many people are working from home, I guess. Would that be a reason? I don't know. I think that'd be a reason. It also makes it interesting for any of these scouts or anyone that's got to work at home. Like, are they, because now they're not on access to the team's full database.

They're on streaming, whatever they put on the, whatever they put into the system on the cloud versus everything. Let's just talk real quickly a little bit more about the Redskins. Then I want to get to some of the stuff that we haven't talked about since it happened, like Brady and other quarterbacks. So when we last talked, it was sort of at the beginning of their free agency. They've added more players. Kendall Fuller's back in the fold.

You liked that deal, right? You liked him as a player. Yeah, I absolutely like Kendall Fuller. he can do anything you want him to do. And he continued to show that in Kansas City. So who are the corners next year for this team? You want me to refresh your memory on who's on the roster? Moreau, Morland, Fuller, they signed Derby.

You know, you still have Moro, Morland, Fuller. those are sort of your top four. I think they still have Stroman and Johnson maybe on the roster. What do you think about, just tell me how a lot of fans like to sort of, you know, figure out how they're going to, the secondary is going to play. And I talked about this the other day, Cooley. For most of us, I think the hardest positions to evaluate and to really understand are offensive line and DBs because we just don't know what they're

responsibilities are more often than not. And certain schemes and certain coverage types, you know, take advantage of talent better than others do, which by the way, Brandon Bean, the Buffalo Bill's general manager said yesterday, we like Josh Norman because we think Josh Norman's been playing, you know, in a scheme that didn't fit his talent for the last few years, sort of a shot at the Redskins. But looking at the corners, you know, Fuller, Moreau, Morland, Derby. Are those? Yeah, and Darby struggled in a zone system in Philadelphia, so you wonder what you're getting out of Darby. But Darby is exceptional when they had a better pass rush.

So I think Darby's a definite starter outside. I think you could start Kendall Fuller outside. I think you can do anything. We saw him develop as a slot. I think having a slot is incredibly valuable or a guy that can play inside, especially if you get to nickel packages. Like, he could bump inside and nickel and stay outside in base situations. Morland's going to continue to develop.

I think that Morland saw speed that he wasn't used to. But I just believe in his instincts and playmaking ability and what he can do. I think Jimmy's got some stuff to him and the competitive nature where he's going to grow and get better. Hard to say on Stroman. it's hard to say on Stroman. I just don't think they're done there. I don't think you can be done at Corner yet.

Do you think they're done at safety with Sean Davis, you know, penciled in as a free safety with Landon Collins? Unless you draft somebody. Yeah, I think you're probably, I don't know where you're going to go at safety. I said something after the Sean Davis signing, and we haven't talked about this. But I'm curious as to whether or not you agree with me.

I understand why they cut Monta Nicholson loose, but I think Monta Nicholson's talent and upside is greater than Sean Davis's. Yeah, but his downside is way greater. Yeah, I understand. But I think Monta is really talented. He's incredibly talented, but that's obviously not been the Rivera M.O. These aren't going to be guys we're going to have there. This isn't us.

We're not going to build this way. We're doing it different. Can Troy Apki play or not? Yeah, there's been times where Troy's looked pretty good, and then there's been times where Troy's been out of place, taking bad angles, made bad decisions. I'm not sold on Troy Acty as a starter yet. He's a great special team's player, not sold on him as a starting safety to shit.

At linebacker, they signed Tom. Davis, you played against him during his career, tackling machine, obviously a Rivera guy, part of this culture change, you know, bringing AP back, you know, signing Thomas Davis, etc. They re-signed John Bostic. I think we talked about that last time. Do you think that Bostic right now, unless they, unless Rubin Foster is healthy? And actually, Rianne and Walker from the Athletic had some information on that and said that they expect you know, Ruben Foster to be ready for camp.

Is the middle linebacker battle between Bostic, maybe Ruben Foster, and maybe Sean Dionne Hamilton with Davis and Anderson as your outside backers? And I don't know what you do with Cole Holcomb. Obviously, he's depth at that point. Tell me how you see the backers. I see Cole Holcomb as a starting linebacker. I think that becomes interesting if Ruben Foster is healthy. I don't know if Thomas Davis is a full-time starter.

I do know that I really like that he says this defensive unit has a chance to wreck the game because the talent they have on hand. I appreciate that. I'm excited about that movie forward. I didn't hear that. I didn't hear that. Did Davis say that? Yeah, he said it's a J.P. Finley.

He said this unit has a chance to wreck the movie. the game because of the talent on end. Oh, my God. Why do they always do that when they come here? I don't know. I don't know. But who's the middle? So give me the linebackers.

Give me the starting linebackers right now today. Yeah, because I don't know where Ruben Foster's is. But I think... Let's assume Ruben Foster's not. Ryan Anderson is going to compete with Thomas Davis, unless you want Thomas playing inside, which is not what he's done. but Ryan Anderson and Thomas Davis would compete and probably share time.

I see Cole Holcomb as your weakside starting backer, and I see Ruben Foster or, I guess, Bostic, or somebody inside. There will be competition at those spots, but I think Cole Holcomb is a starter. I'd pencil on it. If they draft Chase Young, you've got sweat, ionitis, pain, Alan, Young and Carrigan. You know, you have, you know, you have sweat and young, you know, I think most people would say

sweats one D.N. Young's the other. You got Payne and Allen and Ionitis and Carrigan. How do you make all that work? I mean, I'm all for more players rather than less players, but how does that all work? Payne Allen and Ionitis rotate inside. I think Tarragon and sweat rotate some, and Young plays most of the... Okay. It would be... That's how it would work for me, is I'd have a pretty even three-man rotation with more Jonathan Allen

and my in a third-down situation. Pain's shown flashes as being up the rush, but Ionitis has been better of pushing the pocket than him. I think Alan can continue to be a pretty good rusher. So those are my guys inside. And then if Jake Young is on the field for me, I'm playing 80% of the time, at least. And so I see Sweat and Kerrigan probably sharing some more time at that other defensive end spot. And maybe Kerrigan is a first and second down end more so. And even when I say that, maybe that's where you get Chase Young some reps out.

base situations in first and second down is you have Carrigan on the field. That's a pretty good position to be in right up front, if that's what it is. It sounds like you can wreck the league. Yeah, you can wreck teams. Why do you think the Redskins have added two running backs, J.D. McKissick, and Peyton Barber, and Free Agency?

Because they're looking for Christian McCaffrey, and they're not going to find Christian McCaffrey, but you're looking for a guy that can do what he does out of the backfield. Okay, so that's McKess. And it's not going to cost you a boatload of money, and you're going to try to find a guy that can run your choice routes and your option route. Because it's probably not going to be guys,

even though Geis believes he can run routes like that, and it's not going to be AP. And so you're not sure on Bryce Love yet. Does it say, I mean, we know Geis's availability has been limited. So there's a concern there that makes sense, right? they're not sure about Geis from a health standpoint. Is there anything about Geis that they may not be sure about? As a pure back?

No. More than that. No. As a culture and maturity guy. Geis is a little different. But Geisel's work. I have no problem with his personality and the way he goes about his business. He's a little different.

He'll make you look. it'll make you look at him a little bit. But I don't know, I got close with Darius last year. He's a guy that it takes a little bit of time to build trust for him to build trust in you. And he'll test you, and he's a little bit different. But no, I'm not concerned about his character. By the way, I thought in some of the games that he did play in, especially that Carolina game, wow. Like, he could be a big time back if he could ever stay healthy.

And that's going to be the only thing that I think you're worried about. left area. Tell everybody about the two tight ends because they signed both of them since the last time you run the podcast. Richard Rogers and Logan Thomas. I don't watch a whole lot of Richard Rogers to be

honest with you. He's the guy that I thought had a lot of talent when he was at Green Bay. But it never really showed. It's interesting though. You would think playing in Green Bay is a titan. And Graham made some place, you'd think playing with Aaron Rogers

that you'd have 80 catches a year. But guys haven't there. So I'm not too worried about it. He's not an overwhelming blocker by any means. And Logan Thomas is still a developing project. There are a few plays. If you look at his catch tape, you say, wow, he's got something to him. He's got some run after the catch.

There are a couple, I mean, the Kerrigan block, There's a couple blocks that he had, for the most part. Still, a lot of technique issue for Logan to work out. I see some stiffness in the tip. I think he's a two. I just don't think you have your starting tight end. I don't think you have a pure starting tight end yet. Yeah, and there's a lot of discussion about, like, if they don't add picks,

you know, if Trent's not traded and they don't get something that the third rounder, there's a chance. I know who you like, but he's not going in the third round. Is he Charlie Warner from Georgia? He's not projected to go there. No, he's not projected to go until later. You still believe that that'll change? I don't see him getting past the fourth.

I just don't. I just don't. I don't. He might. I think teams will be wrong. If he goes past the fourth, then someone's going to be incredibly pleased to have him because I see him as a starting tight end.

But I just, I don't, I see my guy Charlie Warner as a big time starting tight-end in this league. I mean, there are some guys that can play. Colquette from Notre Dame is, he's going in the first round, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the top 15. He's going to be an awesome player. He is very good. And then you go down through this list, the guy that, from Missouri, Albert,

I can't say his last name. Yeah, right. It's incredibly long. It is a flashy guy, but didn't make a lot of plays last year, and I just, I don't, I don't really love the way he plays. Sometimes guys change as they get in the league. Adam Troutman out of Dayton, a tiny school, it's hard watching their film. It's hilarious, actually, watching their film. It's a guy that can play a little bit.

He'll go in the first three or four rounds. Bright Hopkins out of Purdue, go early. I mean, probably third round. I really, I think it's Kmet and Troutman and the kid from Missouri in the first three rounds. And I don't know if anybody else goes much higher than that. There's a guy, Devin Ossi-Oci-Oci from UCLA, that's underrated right now. I actually like him a lot. Did you coach him in that game or not?

No. He wasn't there. If Cole Commet goes in the first 15, you're genius, because I don't see him in many first rounds, period. I don't see any tight ends in the first round. I know, but you look at the kid from Iowa last year, how he climbed all the way up to seven, because he can do everything, and Cole Commett's the only guy to do. You're sure. Is he comparable with Hawkinson as a prospect?

Yeah, he's better than Hawkinson. Really? Mm-hmm. He's a better football player than Hawkinson. I watched so much Hawkins last year. Yeah, I know. And I didn't think he could separate.

But I also, I'm sure that I'm 100% sure of this, because I did coach Nate Whiting, who was a type of out of Iowa this year who played with him. I'm sure that they were not coached to separate. Because I talked to Nate about it. They're great run blockers. And even Nate was terrific as a run blocker. we spend a week together, and it's funny you teach him a couple little things,

and you all of a sudden watch him making DBs fall down. I have videos of it on my phone. I mean, a guy that couldn't separate is making DBs, like safety, fall down. So I think a lot of these guys need help either in the run game or in the past game, and they didn't get it in college. So this is a position that will develop, but there's from the fourth to the seventh round. and I think Charlie Warner's one of the best of them Charlie Warner's going higher than people think

Okay You just if you if you start watching his film If you go back and watch the bowl game Our bowl game that he played in Some of the things that he can do Talk to him as a guy And this is actually I mean he's not going to get to do a bunch of these meetings

You guys aren't going to travel It might hurt some of these guys With high character in the draft To not be able to go do a lot of these meetings That's not going to help him a lot because if you spent an hour with Charlie Warner, you'd fall in love with him. So, I don't know. He ran a 4-7-8 at the combine.

I thought he'd run into 4-6s. That was not a good time for him. It's a good time for the Redskins if they want to draft him, though, because they can't draft him in the third, I don't think. Yeah. All right. Lastly, well, two things, because I don't think. I don't think it hadn't happened the last time we talked.

I don't think Quentin Dunbar gets traded for a fifth to Seattle. What was your reaction to that? I think that was probably the best offer you got. Because they didn't just willy-nilly call Seattle and say, we have to move this guy right now. They weren't in a rush. I think Quentin Dunbar is a good two. I think he's a good zone corner,

which is what they're going to play here. I don't necessarily see him as an elite man-to-band corner. I would rather have Quinn Dunbar than an extra fifth, to be honest with you. Me too. The corners that we went through. Me too. But if you didn't believe he fits into your culture,

I don't see it as the biggest loss. And you got something back. All right. Trent Williams, his agent spoke last week. his agent essentially said multiple times this isn't about the contract it's not about the money which i would then say well then it must it should be easy to trade you then but it's not or come back and play for the redskins um the redskins are according to reports they want a second they haven't been offered that how does this thing end i i have a firm belief in how it

should end, and you and I have discussed it a little bit. Right. So tell everybody. I talked to Khan the other day about it on Times podcast. I think that Trent Williams and Ron Rivera and Kyle Smith and Trent's agent should all get together, and they should be very clear on where they stand and what they're willing to take and what offers they're getting because they're not getting a second. They're probably third, which is insane. teams are going to play the game of, and they can say this to Trenton's age.

Teams are going to play the game of this is a one-year rental. And so, you know, we're not getting anywhere near what your value is. So come back and play, show everyone you can play. There might be trade value for you early in the season. We'll work with you collectively. We love your talent. We love what you can do. Maybe it ends up being a fit.

Maybe this new Redskins thing is something that you end up wanting to be a part of. And you're playing great and we'll work out of. contract through the year. We want you here. We're not going to give you away for a fork. I don't know how they want to sue them, what course they want to take. The Redskins don't have to give them away for a force. That'd be assonite. They don't have to give them away for a third. Quentin Dunbar went for a fifth. You're telling me you're worth for Trent Williams? I just don't think so. It's absolutely crazy. And so I'm also wondering on this, our team's fishing with a guy like Kyle

Smith and a new regime and believing they just want to move Trent Williams, you know, are they trying to bait the Redskins a little bit? But what the Redskins could do, essentially, is say, okay, it's a fourth until you work out a deal with Trent Williams, and then it's your second, and your fourth. If you work out a deal with Trent Williams before his contract expires, we get your second. They may get it this year if someone traded for Trent and they worked at a deal this week, or they may get next year second. But you get this year's fourth, and you say as soon as he signs a long-term contract with you, we get the second.

Yeah, because then it's not a one-year rental. Correct. I wouldn't give him away. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a second-round selection, and really, I'd want a top half of the second-round selection. And if we can't get that, Trent, you're going to have to come play for us, brother. And by the way, I'd approach it the same way you. it would not be good for Trent to fake an injury.

It would be bad. He will not get a big deal if he does that. But he could do it. And he's not going to get a big deal if he holds out for a second straight year either. He just doesn't have any, he just doesn't have that much leverage. By the way, the fines are more punitive now for holdouts. And the Redskins, you know, look, the disadvantage the Redskins have in all of this. is, A, if you believe that it's somehow disruptive, I don't think anything can be disruptive right now,

given what we're going through here. You know, nobody's paying so much attention to it that it can be disruptive. But you've said all along, everybody loves Trent. Like, if he had to play for him, it wouldn't be a problem in the locker room. But the real disadvantage for the Redskins, and it's the only one. The other, you know, they have advantages in every other part of this sort of confrontation slash maybe a negotiation. is that it'd be nice to come up with an answer at left tackle before, you know, the draft. I don't think anything's going to happen until the draft, but it would be nice to know, you know,

if we traded him, now we can go sign Jason Peters to a one-year deal, or we can re-sign Donald Penn, which they might be able to do anyway, or now we've got to look for a long-term left tackle in the draft if we don't think that Christian's that guy. You know, it'd be nice to know where they are rather than it being in limbo. I mean, yeah, you just don't have the starting left tackle on your team. You're going to end up having to draft somebody. And so you're hoping you get a guy that falls or...

Well, Penn is still out there. So is Peters. You can't sign Peters if you got $12.5 million on the books with Trent. But you could certainly re-sign Donald Penn. I know that. And the thing that you've got to like about Donald Penn is he can protect. tech Duane a little bit. It's just

he wore down through the year. He's not going to be a huge impact in the run game. And by the way, you know how much I love Donald Penn. I know you do. And this isn't fake love towards Donald Penn. I'm just, this is where he's at in his career. You're his college teammate. Yeah, he's my guy.

But he's not the answer you want as a starter. I would keep Donald Penn because I think he'd be a great guy to have is your backup. I'm not always of the belief that your backup's got to be Geron Christian a developing prospect. Sometimes I like the idea that Donald Penn could be your backup, or a Thomas Davis might not play all the plays, but could be your guy that is going to be the right fit for your team and the right fit if you had to put him in. And you're not going to lose anything if he goes

in the ballgame for a few games. But Donald's not going to play. I just, I don't see him being a 16-game guy that has a huge impact. It would be nice to have the answer. Yeah. All right. Last thing, I want to read this to you. This actually I thought was interesting. Ty Law, did you ever know him at all or not?

I don't know Ty Law. I know obviously I know who did. Did you ever get to know Peyton Manning at a Pro Bowl or anything here? Yeah, I got a chance. Yeah, I got a chance to meet Peyton a few times. He's awesome. He's exactly who he's. and all the stuff on ESPN and all the commercials. I'm a huge Peyton Manning fan as what he does and a guy.

So, Ty Law was on a Boston radio station yesterday or the day before. And let me give you some background on this, first of all, or background from my perspective. If you watch this NFL, you know, 100, you know, all-time 100 list develop and the shows around it with Rich Eisen. and Bill Belichick and Chris Collinsworth. Did you watch any of those shows? I forget if we've talked about this before.

I haven't watched any. It was phenomenal. It was so good. Anyway, in one of the shows when they were doing the quarterbacks, when they got to Peyton Manning, Belichick was telling stories about how they'd be at a Pro Bowl, and he would try to get information from Peyton Manning, and Peyton Manning would be doing the same thing with Belichick.

And they'd both, you know, they'd have a couple of drinks, and they both would realize, you know, nobody's given up anything. Thai Law told a story on Boston radio. He said, Peyton Manning used to buy him drinks in Hawaii at the Pro Bowl to try to get him drunk to get information out of him. Now, something I didn't remember or just didn't know. Thai Law faced Peyton Manning twice in the postseason and intercepted him a total of five times.

Thai law had five interceptions in two playoff games against the Colt. That's unbelievable. But anyway, he said, quote, Peyton would try to get you drunk. Once you get over to the Pro Bowl, you're on the same team. Peyton tried to get you drunk and then would try to dig into your brain. You know, what did you see? Why did you do this? He'd feed you my ties and then butter you up and ask you questions about this and that.

And I was always like, Peyton, I ain't falling for that shit. I just think that's fun. I just think the whole Peyton Manning over there trying to get guys on the Patriots drunk to get information is hysterical. But remember, New England was the smartest team in the league. They weren't giving up anything. Oh, can you imagine if Thai law leaked something to Peyton Manning about what they were doing? Yeah. Yeah, that's a funny story.

I mean, the Provo was always fun. Peyton's good. Peyton's brilliant. So I'm not surprised. I'm sure he did it with everybody that he faced. And the thing about Peyton is he's not even trying to be discreet about it, I'm sure. I'm sure it was very obvious what he was doing, and Tylen knew it, and it was kind of a funny gag. Do you ever think about what your career, and you had a really good career, obviously?

Like, I think about Peyton Manning and those cult teams, how perfect you. you would have been for Peyton Manning on those cold teams. You know, and same thing for Brady and Belichick in New England, but there's something about you as like this white tight end in number 47 in blue Colt

uniform with Peyton Manning as the quarterback. That would have worked, don't you think? Yeah, I absolutely think it would have worked. I have literally no regrets from the teams I played on. The one thing that I do notice

a lot of those teams. Ben Utecht was like his really good Tedd. Dallas Clark and Ben, Dallas Clark and Ben Utec. You were better than both of those guys. I think they drafted Ben Utec in the second round in the year. I got drafted.

Yeah, I know. He was one of the guys who wanted. The one thing that was nice that I always like with Peyton and some of the Brady teams, and really the teams that stayed together, is they had those teams that had great relationships. Peyton had some great relationships with guys. And obviously I did as well, guys like Clinton and Santana,

but we just didn't have as many guys that stayed. Right. We didn't have as many guys that were there for long periods of time. So that would have been fun to be able to develop some more very good relationships. I'm not saying anything negative about my teammates, but a lot of them just weren't there very long. But, you know, think about it. Like, you know, look, grime.

I've thought about it. Come on. How many catches would I have had consistently every year, same quarterback, same offense, be the right spot at the right time. But, again, I don't wish different in my career because I think about it the other way. I always do that and then I always do this. That my same year, Chris Wilson, who was a decent tight end out of pit, got drafted to Kansas City. He played special teams and behind Tony Gonzalez. Now, maybe I would have done that, and maybe I would have proved to whoever it was,

I think it was Al Sunder. Yeah, no, I would have been good there. I would have loved me. But Chris Wilson never played. So I could have went somewhere where I didn't play. So there's the flip side of it, too. So I'm not playing that year. He was a second round pick your year.

Chris Wilson? Yeah. I think he was a third. No, I got it right here. It was a second round pick. The Chiefs picked him second round 61 overall. So it was towards the end of the second round. Right.

Yeah, there were several tight ends that went before you in that 2004 draft. Ben Troop, Ben Watson, Chris Wilson. There's another guy I couldn't believe went before me. Who? Who? He ended up being a blocking tight end for a long time. Well, Kellyn Winslow went. Yeah, Kellynne, obviously.

He went in the first round. And then it was Ben Watson end of the first round. Ben Troop. Ben Troop to Tennessee early. Another Ben, And the other guy's Ben. It was like the draft of Ben. The other guy's named Ben Hartsock.

Ben Hartsox's his name. Yeah. To that kid you never went before me. Yeah, didn't he. Was he Iowa or Ohio State? Oh, here he is. Ohio State. Yeah, Ohio State.

Ben Hartstock, Chris Wilson went 61 overall. Ben Hartstock went 68 overall. And then it was Chris Cooley, which the Redskins traded up in the third round with New Orleans to draft Chris Cooley in the third round at 81 overall. What was your, I know I've asked you this before. I just, I'm forgetting what the answer is. What, what round, when, who told you they were going to draft you sooner than the Redskins in the third round?

Nobody. Nobody did. Nobody really, I didn't talk to anybody that, I really didn't have a lot of conversations with teams. Nobody called me that day. And remember that draft. it was when he did three rounds in one day. Right.

Which was awesome. I still love that. And were you sitting around that? Were you sitting around that day waiting for a call? All day, man. I knew it wasn't going on in the first. I tried to play golf. There was a golf tournament going on at the public course.

I could have went to another little course about an hour away. And I was like, I'm not going to do that. I don't want to get into the second round and be stuck on the golf course. and then, so yeah, I said I wasn't going to watch the first round at all, and I went and I watched the entire first round because I couldn't play golf. And then I got in the second round, and I saw, I mean, that year, a lot of the guys started to go, right? Like, I thought I could be the fourth or fifth tight end drafted.

And obviously that was talking to my agent and talking to people. And I should have been, but I mean, obviously, in the looks of those names, I should have been higher. But, yeah, I got into the third round. I'm like, this is crap. and then Joe called. You were certainly, I mean, in that draft, to your point, I haven't looked through the rest of the draft,

but you had the most productive career. I mean, Ben Watson would have been second, right? Yeah, and Kellynne Winslow obviously had the talent. Yeah, but Clinton talked Gibbs out of taking Kellyn Winslow. Clinton's told that story many times to me and others. He got winning. I know because he wanted Sean. He wanted Sean.

And my favorite line with that is Gibbs said we won offense, and Clinton said, then draft Sean. That's the best offensive player you can take there. Clinton's the best. Yeah. All right, man. All right. Stay healthy.

Stay safe. And I'll talk to you. Thanks. Yeah, thanks. All right. We head towards our fourth weekend. Aaron with no sports, this would have been the final four weekend, and we would have been getting ready for, you know, probably Maryland against somebody in a final four semi-final. Absolutely.

Well, let's be honest. We'd be down there. Oh, oh, if Maryland were in the final four, I would be, well, we'd be completing the show and I'd be on my way down there. Certainly either tonight or by tomorrow morning, that's for sure. to my man Lou D on Twitter. You couldn't be wrong about almost everything you tweeted me with respect to my comments about the president. My comments about the president have been about these briefings

in the communication in these briefings. And so you're loud wrong on that. You're also loud wrong about the podcasts and the downloads that we've been doing. They've actually been increasing exponentially here since this whole lockdown thing started. And by the way, that leads me to this. I appreciate so much all of you that continue to listen and all of you that continue to send me very nice messages. Trust me on this.

It means so much to me too. It means as much if not more. I'd be going stir crazy if I couldn't continue to do this. And the bottom line is we've had so much. to talk about, so much to talk about with respect to sports. NFL free agency continuing was huge, and now we've got a draft to prepare for. I had Adam Schaefter on the radio show yesterday for a half an hour. Adam's very much against the draft continuing moving forward on April 23rd. He thinks that this is just a situation that doesn't make any sense. He felt the same way about

free agency. And to his credit, he said, after the fact, I was probably wrong about that because it turned out to be a really nice diversion. His concern about the draft is all of the predictions of, you know, this thing peaking two weeks from now. And by the way, then starting to peak, you know, in other areas, you know, for the first time. And I understand that. And one of the things I said to him, if I haven't said it on the podcast, is the perspective of those in the hot spots right now is much different than the perspective in a lot of. other places. Not that we're all, we're all obviously worried, concerned, angst ridden to a certain degree, and everybody wants to stay healthy, and everybody wants to avoid this thing. And, you know,

not everybody, clearly, but most people are following, you know, the recommendations from, you know, Dr. Fauci and Dr. Berks and the CDC and everything. But the people in New York, I have a good friend of in New York. He's got two people in ICU that he knows very well, four or five others that have tested positive. One of the people in ICU is very sick. And Adam lives in New York, and he's seeing all of this sort of up close and personal, not to mention the fact that, you know, Adam, Adam's wife is a 9-11 widow. They were, you know, obviously, you know, he lived through that as well. So everybody's got different perspectives on these things. But it was a very interesting. interesting interview with Adam. Go listen to it. Today, by the way, on the radio show, Tommy

Shepard was on the GM of the Wizards. He was great. I like Tommy a lot, and we talked for nearly 25 minutes. That's all available, by the way, Team 980.com, Team 980 app. By the way, it is Ovechkin versus Gibbs in the Ultimate D.C. sports bracket, Aaron. Gibbs rolled past Riggins, and Ovechkin beat Darrell Green in the other semifinal. And just as we're finishing up the podcast, I get a text from Tommy. A lot of you asked me how Tommy did. I literally just got the text. Everything went fine. I should be out of here by three o'clock. That's a relief. Good to hear that Tommy is going to be okay. That's awesome. Anyway, have a great weekend. Stay safe. Stay healthy. So much appreciate. all of you listening. I know that I'm sure in some cases the numbers have gone up because people

are simply bored. I will concede that point and I understand that. But there's been a lot to talk about too and we'll have a lot to talk about certainly over the next couple of weeks leading up to the draft. All right. Aaron and I both thank you. Cooley does as well. Have a great weekend. Do your best on all the stuff they're telling you to do and we'll be back on Monday.