The Kevin Sheehan Show - A Heinicke Goodbye

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Kevin and Thom today on Taylor Heinicke leaving Washington after signing a deal to play for the Atlanta Falcons. Plenty on that along with thoughts on what's next at quarterback and a quick recap of the moves Washington made yesterday. Also on the show, news on the Commanders' sale, Robert Redford, Barbara Streissand, The Last of Us, Joe Pepitone, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Go to 247 remaining. Three timeouts, do you agree with this? Going forward on fourth? I do agree with it.

Heineke on fourth down. Again, under pressure from Ojo-Jolari, fires downfield, and it's Curtis Samuel, who makes the catch out of the 48-yard line and quieted this crowd a 21-yard connection. Wow, he's getting pressure from both sides, has to escape out of the pocket in order to be able to even see who was downfield. I had no idea who he was looking at.

I see him going, going, and then he's trying to set up. I'm like, who's he throwing into him? Curtis Samuel out of nowhere gets open for that first down. Remember that play, Tommy? Hard to forget it. Heineke magic. We'll be talking about that tie for years. to come.

Tommy's here. I am here. Tommy is back in his fortress of solitude out in Frederick after what seemed to be months upon months in the panhandle of Florida singing virtually every night. Hopefully

healthy. We'll get your foot here in a moment. But Taylor Heineke, if you miss the news, I can't imagine that you did. Taylor Heineke is an Atlanta Falcon. He is going to sign with the Falcons to back up Desmond Ritter. He got a really good deal.

Now, some of the early reports, two years 20 million, I think we're a little bit overdone. It looks like all of the reporting now is basically two years, $14 million, with like six and a half of the million guaranteed. But still, Taylor Heineke and his magical run as the Washington backup quarterback and often starter, is over. How are you feeling, Tommy? Well, I knew this was inevitable. I mean, I kept reading, you know, references from the people who covered a team saying,

they really want Taylor back, you know, and their plans include having Taylor back. And I'm thinking, are you nuts? He's not coming back there. He thinks you screwed him. He's not playing for that coach ever again. It's funny. I had Kime on the show, radio show, very early this morning. And at 6.45 a.m., he told me, I think Taylor Heineckeel probably sign a two-year, $10 million deal to stay here. They want him back. There's interest from Taylor and his agent to come back unless they get a much better deal. And it would appear as if they got a much better deal from Atlanta. And remember, Atlanta is home for him. and so he's going home as well.

I don't know that I agree with you. And if you're right, then I feel less about Taylor Heineke, the person than I do, which is I really love his story. I think he's a gamer, baller, all the things we've talked about. I just don't think he's that good of a quarterback and certainly not a starting quarterback. But if he isn't appreciative of the opportunity that this organization Scott Turner and Ron Rivera gave him. He was on his sister's couch just a few years ago,

taking classes at Old Dominion, and now he's got millions of dollars and millions more to come in income. That would be disappointing if he really honestly felt like he was completely screwed. No, no, no, no. Don't twist it here. What do you mean? His loyalty is to Scott Turner. Scott Turner is the one who brought him in.

He was Scott Turner's guy all along. Rod was never crazy about him. You kept saying week after week, they couldn't wait to get to bench him and put Carson Wentz back in. I think Scott Turner felt the same. Scott Turner, this was Scott Turner's guy. And look, I mean, you saw what, you saw what Taylor's good friend and former coach at Dominion, Bobby Wilder said on Al Goldie's podcast. No, I didn't. Did he call him the five-wrench quarterback again or the five-tool?

He's never seen a five-tool quarterback like him? What was the, is that? Actually, that may have been his college coach. Are you talking? Who was this, his high school coach or college coach? Okay, sorry. College coach. Yeah.

Okay. You know, what did he say? Basically, he basically said, I don't want to get in his specifics about what happened, but I don't feel it's my place to share that conversation. But when you're in that position, the starting quarterback of the team, and you've led that team from being two and four and out of it, so we've got a shot to get the playoffs. You've done that.

Sure, you haven't scored a lot of points. But the locker room loves you. The team has really come together. Then all of a sudden we're going to go in this direction. We're going to make this move. That's a hard pill to swallow. I'll leave it at this. What happened at the workplace was not done.

professional manner. Oh, bullshit. I don't feel like Ron handled it well. I think there was some animosity. Okay. Taylor was getting too much credit for the turnaround. Right. In the back of his mind, Ron is taking credit or blame.

He's getting too much credit from people like Sabah. Okay. Okay. The Heinekeye hive. That's because you've proven wrong on this. I told you weeks ago that Taylor Heineke felt betrayed, and you dismissed it. I don't. And I'm telling you, this is his, this is his,

one of his best friends. Well, then if the guy that he was so tied to, why weren't the Raiders interested? They don't have a backup quarterback on their roster. They let Jared Stinn go. I know that. Maybe he got a better deal in Atlanta. Maybe. And what the Raiders might have been offered. Or maybe, as I discussed here a couple of weeks ago. Let's not deal with maybe. Let's not deal with maybe. Okay. The commanders wanted him back. He didn't go back to the commanders. His former college coach and very close friend say he felt betrayed and this is what I said weeks ago. And that's exactly what happened here. Well, that's a maybe.

If you take his college coach at his word and rather than just being non-objective when it comes to the overall situation and being a huge fan and supporter of Taylor. First of all, first of all, this idea that Washington desperately wanted him back, they wanted him back, but at a number. That's what I actually discussed here. And for the most part, reported, not really reported, but discussed as a strong, you know, informed hunch that they had a number and Taylor and his representation thought they could get more. And the team said, go for it. If you find more, great, but we're not going above this number. And Kime pretty much reported the same thing. And by the way, congratulations. He got more than what they were offering from the Falcons. And

that that's it. But I would bet that if there weren't many other options for Heineke and the only option we know of is Atlanta, and there may have been other options. Maybe Scott Turner was interested, although I had heard that that's probably

not what Scott Turner would be pushing the Raiders for, but they didn't know who their starting quarterback was until yesterday when they signed Jimmy Garapolo. But you're acting as if you got this right that he felt screwed, and more importantly, because this was more about, this was the debate,

it wasn't about whether or not he felt like he was screwed, which you now think has been validated. The argument was whether or not he should feel like he got screwed. I said at the time, I think he should be incredibly appreciative of the opportunity that this organization gave him, and you disagreed with that. That was the argument, not whether or not he felt like he was screwed. No, no, no, no. That was not the argument was... I said he shouldn't feel like he got screwed. Did the coach betray him during the season?

Betrayed. Right. And I... And here's... And here's the one part. I said he shouldn't feel like he was betrayed. It's bullshit. He betrayed him for his own self-interest, for his own ego. He played Carson Wentz because he saw it as his last chance to be proven right

on the most idiotic stupid personnel move we've seen on this franchise. That's a long list to choose from. Okay, and he was doing this for his ego. He didn't even know after the game that there was a playoff position at first. No, he didn't. Okay? But, and this idiot started Carson Wentz out of his own pure ego. Nothing else.

Nothing else, nothing else other than the fact that he wasn't a very good quarterback, and he had been turning the ball over and the games leading up. up to the Cleveland game with fumbles, and the offense was really stagnant because he wasn't a very good quarterback at that time? I guess other than that, nothing else. Now, I will say, the best game he played all year was the San Francisco game, but they had already made up their minds prior to that. Other than the fact that the offense was really subpar at best, and the quarterbacking was not very good, then the only other reason was his own self-interest.

Yes. If he had benched Taylor Heineke when the offense was humming and Taylor Heineke was playing well and it was really debatable as to whether or not Taylor Heineke could lead him to the playoffs and they could do something, that's one thing. But that was not the reality of the situation. You take the small minority of voices out there

that think that this guy is Joe Montana, and you realize the guy's not very, good. Okay, you see, there you go. He's not very good. And he wasn't very good. The reality of the situation was they had their best chance to be Cleveland was with Taylor Heineke. That is true in hindsight. That is true in hindsight. I did not feel that way going in. As I told you and I was very clear, to me, I have no idea. I'm totally non-plussed on this argument. I don't have a strong opinion. It might be whence. It might be Heineke. I have no idea what we were going to get. In hindsight, yes, they would have had a better chance. I still don't.

think they would have won the game. Because the defense, it was the worst defensive performance since week two. They made Deshawn Watson look like Deshawn Watson for three straight drives, giving up 21 points and like 300 yards almost on three drives. That was the defense number one that lost that game. I'm not coming off that. Now, with respect to Heineke and whether or not he felt betrayed, maybe he did feel betrayed. I'm not saying that he didn't feel betrayed. I didn't tell you that I didn't know if he felt betrayed or not. I'm saying it's bullshit. If he felt betrayed, that's bullshit. He was betrayed. No, he wasn't. He was not betrayed. If he had been playing great, then he would have been betrayed. He wasn't playing very well. The offense needed

a joke. This guy from even worse embarrassment than he's had as a coach. He saved his ass. That's what he did. First of all, there may be no saving this coach, but it's certainly not Taylor Heineke that's saving him. Taylor Heineke's not very good, Tom. Can we start with that? He's a backup NFL quarterback. So if you... Yes, except with a 12 and 11 record, not playing well, shouldn't feel betrayed about anything. With a 12 and 11 starting record with a coach who has a losing record since he's been here. Yeah, but they didn't have a winning record because of him. He was, you know what? He was on the field. He played the most important position on the field

for this team. But no, they didn't have a winning record because they am. No, they didn't. He was not the lead reason as to why they had a winning record. There were the games that they won, that he played well in. Such a winning record? What'd you say? Maybe it was it, was it the left

linebacker? Is that the reason they had such a winning record? The time he was on the field? No, it was several other players on defense, though. Several others, including one that they just extended, that they just gave a contract extension to. Yeah, that was the reason that they were competitive this year. The defense was top 10 in the league, and it led them the entire season. That's the number one reason they won eight games and finished 500.

Number two was their playmakers. Yes, it is. In my opinion, it is. No, it's not. Yes, it is. Okay. What's the number one reason? Well, it's not number one reason they want. every game. I said it's the number one reason why they went 500 this year and not something much worse. Okay. All right. I'll grant you that. You are. Okay. Taylor Heineke was a backup quarterback. He's not very good. He is all the positive things that we said about him. I'm not going to say him anymore. Everybody's heard him a million times. I don't dislike him as a player. I like him as a backup quarterback. End of discussion. The bottom line is a backup quarterback who's not playing very well for an offense that is stagnant, shouldn't feel betrayed if he gets benched for a guy that they paid big money for and started early in the season and they wanted to give him one more chance.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that there wasn't some self-serving motive that was a part of Ron Rivera's decision. And by the way, I would suggest to you it wasn't just Ron's decision. This was something I told you before the first giant game that a lot of them were thinking. That when Carson gets back and is healthy and ready to go, they want to move back to him. And it was that giant game with the highlight that I played coming into the show, which was among several highlights, by the way, of Taylor Heineke's career here in Washington, that kept him in the starting lineup through the by week and for the giant game where, you know, Kvon Tibado and O'Jolori and everybody else completely

got the best of him. And they had, you know, not much of a chance because of turnovers and because of poor offensive play. I just don't... You have a coach who's a distance, who can't be trusted when it comes to dealing with his quarterback. That's fine. That's fine. You know, way after he left, Alex Smith felt betrayed by this same coach, you know? And this is the guy who's leading your team. That's bullshit if he did. He did.

did feel that way. And I said it before. I think Alex Smith, to not be smart enough to realize the position the team was in with his catastrophic injury was really, you know, to me, out of touch and out of reality. The team doctor quit because of the way Rivera handled Alex Smith. I don't care. This coach is a nightmare at quarterback. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. Yes, he does. Anybody who's playing that position can't trust the guy. Yes, he does.

And if the quarterback can't trust them, how can the rest of the locker? I can't trust this group to pick the right quarterback. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't trust them personally. They put Alex Smith back out onto the field when there was a massive downside for the organization to doing so. We sat here and we talked about it before he ever went on the field for the first game against the Rams, the incredible risk that the organization took in putting him back on the field. To expect, by the way, after that injury that he was going to come back and play again is ridiculous because not even he or only he thought that that was a possibility.

So to go out and sign Ryan Fitzpatrick and try to move on from him was better football sense. When Alex Smith wins football games and performs well, what does this coach do? he comes out and says, well, we could have done the same thing with Kyle Allen. Tommy, Alex Smith. This guy is a weasel. Alex, Alex, Alex Smith, by the way, that wasn't specifically, I don't think what Alex Smith complained about. Alex Smith complained about before that season in 2020, the fact that they wanted to move on before 2020 or before 2021. I'm getting mixed up now.

Before the season, when they had made plans to move on without him, and that that that was that that somehow that that betrayed him that that was wrong that they should have taken more into consideration the possibility that he could come back that's bullshit it was a long shot it was a wing in a prayer that he would ever play again but but moving on from alick remarks the carl allen comments were part of it as well okay you're sure about that they should by the way yes they were they should that should have been part of it that's not right to say that for a guy that was out there in 2020 actually playing better than Dwayne Haskins.

I don't know that he was that much better than Kyle Allen. In fact, I probably would agree with Ron, but Kyle Allen was hurt, and he wasn't an option at that point. And then they had to go obviously to Taylor when Alex couldn't play in the playoff game after barely making it through the Philadelphia game, when Philadelphia basically threw in the towel and put in, what's his face, the guy that we drafted? Sudfeld. But enough about Alex Smith. Back to Taylor Heineke. Taylor Heineke got an opportunity

from his, from being a backup quarterback in the XFL to completely out of football to looking for perhaps a career after, you know, was he getting his master's at ODU? I think he was getting a master's in something or getting a graduate degree in something. And then working on Wall Street was the goal. And instead he's made $6 million with Walsh. Washington and is now slated to make another perhaps, you know, six, seven to 14 million dollars in Atlanta. If I were advising Taylor Heineke as somebody that's close to him, I don't know every detail of this situation. You may say on our next show, oh, you have no idea what happened that week. They berated him. They verbally abused him. They told him how much he sucked and how little

they appreciated it. I doubt that happened. But my advice to Taylor Heineke would be high road. matter how pissed off you were. And by the way, glad you were pissed off that you got benched before the game against Cleveland. But you owe them a thank you for the opportunity that they gave you, that Scott Turner gave you. And by the way, as Scott Turner's boss, Ron Rivera gave you to completely change your life financially. Not if you felt backstead. Not if you felt backstead. I mean, you don't automatically, okay, you give the guy the chance and then you don't treat them like fair and square you don't treat him on the up and up what wasn't treating him fair and square he wasn't playing well the offense was generating like 12 points a game but there was no other option well there

was an option in ron reverer's mind and by the way again let me emphasize it wasn't just ron rivera's mind i think the offensive staff had been thinking about this for a few weeks they wanted to go back to wence they thought he could provide a jolt they were wrong what they knew what they knew is Offensively, they weren't very good with Heineke. That's a lot of people to all be wrong about the same thing. Well, it may not be a lot of people. It may be three people. It may be Scott Turner.

It may be Ron Rivera, and it might be Ken Zampeze. I don't know all the people. I just know it wasn't just Ron Rivera. I think Scott Turner felt the same way that he was ready to go back to something and look for a jolt. And by the way, Scott Turner wasn't the biggest Wentz fan. We read about that after the season. but the best game that Taylor Heineke probably had was his final game.

And I'd said that after the San Francisco game. I said, to be honest with you, for two and a half quarters, that's the best football he's played all season long and some of the best football he's ever played here. But this was not a team that was thriving offensively with Taylor Heineke a quarterback. And there was no way that they were going to make the postseason or have any chance in the postseason without better play at that position.

And by the way, I would also say better play along the offensive line. That's not true. Yes, it is. In my opinion, it is. If they beat Cleveland, they're in the playoffs. Yeah, I said. And, you know, my personal view is that they wouldn't have beaten Cleveland with Taylor Heineke. I've already said that to you.

You disagree with me. A lot of people disagree with me. That's fair. You're entitled to your opinion on that one. It's a close call. The defense was horrendous in that game. Horrendous. Taylor Heineke had to benefit all season long.

of playing with dominant defensive play. And in that game, Carson Wentz's start. Look, Carson Wentz was terrible. He was rattled. He looked awful. He looked scared until that longest drive of the season, right before the first half that gave him a halftime lead. But the defense gave up three drives, 268 yards, and 21 points on three consecutive drives game over.

Something the defense had not done since week two. It had been a dominant defense all season long. and that's why they won some of these 50-50 games, the Packer game, the Colt game, the Eagles game, the Falcons game. The reason they tied the Giants. Now, Taylor was a spectacular at the end of the Giant game, which is why he got another shot in the next Giant game. But I just don't, my perspective is if I were Taylor

or if I were somebody close to Taylor, I would say you can be pissed off that you got benched. but they it's not like you were playing well or the offense you were leading was dynamic in any shape or way or form and ultimately these guys gave you a life-changing opportunity and you made the most of it. I'm not saying it was all about them. It was probably more him and his play on the field that created this life-changing opportunity. But they gave him the chance to do what he did on the field to prove that he was an NFL backup quarterback. I would not tell him to feel betrayed and feel angry and feel like they did nothing for him.

But that's just me. I don't think, okay, well, I don't think, you know, because you gave this guy a chance, at the behest of Scott Turner, you gave this guy a chance. Well, you didn't have many choices. And Ron went along with it. And Ron went along with it. I don't think that means that you can basically, you know, basically dump your values and backstab the guy like they did.

I don't view it as a backstack. I don't think that gives him carte blanche to do that. You know what? I don't think it gives some carte blanche to backstab them either. I agree with that. I just don't think they backstabbed him. This coach is such an idiot when it comes to the quarterback. Among other things, he really is.

I mean, it's just amazing. One decision after another that he screwed up. And now, quarterback number one is the guy he had to be. be talked into playing in the last week. By, ironically, Taylor Heineke. Taylor Heineke, who didn't want to get hurt. Right, well, I mean... But he knew he was going to get paid.

I think the best compliment you can pay to him is he is obviously very smart. He's very smart. There was absolutely no upside to him going back out on the field. I do think it's interesting, though, as this played out, because it was two weeks ago that I came on here and I said, I've got a very strong hunch that it's probably not going to work out for Taylor Hineke here. They have a number in mind. Taylor and his representation do, and the team doesn't think that their number for him is even close.

And then this morning, in the last day, you know, his tampering period opened up, there's been a lot of discussion. Kime and others, people on the beat, they had a strong sense that Heineke was going to resign here and that he wanted to resigning here. and that, you know, he understood what the market would be for him and that the team's offer was going to be, you know, maybe his best offer. And it wasn't. I mean, Atlanta offered at least based on what we know a lot more. I mean, at least, you know, if you take the guaranteed dollars, at least two to three million per year more. So, and again, let me emphasize, he's going home. He grew up in Atlanta.

That's where he played high school football. And by the way, you know, and we haven't talked to football here at all. But I actually think the opportunity for him in Atlanta with Arthur Smith as the head coach and offensive mind is a great opportunity. Now, Taylor's going to have to commit to running a little bit more, like what Marcus Marriota did for Arthur Smith and the Falcons when they were here. And that was one of Marriota's best games of the year and one of his best running games of the year. But Arthur Smith has made Ryan Tannhill Marriota, and we'll probably do the same thing with Desmond Ritter. He wants his quarterback to run. He wants his quarterback to be part of the running game.

And that was something here, and you know this. That was my number one criticism of Scott Turner when it came to Taylor Heineke. I would have thought that he would have wanted to leverage to me what was Taylor's number one strength, his athleticism and his playmaking ability as a runner and as an off-schedule quarter. back, but as a runner in particular, and they never really did that. They never really emphasized that. So it may be better for him in Atlanta. And by the way, Desmond Ritter, you know, third round pick last year. There are several people that really like him in Atlanta, I think likes him. The reports are that Ritter is the starter, that they've signed Hineke to be a backup.

Heineke, by the way, will make more money than Ritter as a backup, because Ritter's on that year two of a a rookie deal for a third rounder. But it'll be a good position. And by the way, Taylor Heineke, remember, said recently on, I think it was the McAfee podcast, there's really no better job than being a backup quarterback in the NFL. It's a pretty good gig. I'm paraphrasing, but he said something to that effect. And he's going to get paid a lot of money to be a backup quarterback.

That's really good backup quarterback money, you know, roughly $7 million a year. Really good backup quarterback. back money. And Atlanta, by the way, has some weapons. You know, they signed John Hsu Smith yesterday. They traded for him. They've got Kyle Pitts. He'll have the two best tight ends he's ever worked with. They've got what's his face from USC that Washington wanted in the draft, the receiver. They've got the guy that I love the running back, Tyler Algier, who played incredibly well last year as a rookie. I think they're well coached, too. I think Arthur Smith's good. Drake London is the name I was trying to

come up with. You know, and they're in a division where as Sabah pointed out to me this morning, well, he's already beaten the Falcons twice. He's already beaten Carolina and he's already beaten Tampa Bay. So this division with him in the backup role should be Atlanta's. Just give him the division right now. The Falcons. Actually, I like their team. This is the spot that I said to you a while back would have made so much sense for Lamar Jackson. But they didn't want to go after Lamar Jackson. After, by the way, remember being all in on Deshawn Watson last year. Yes.

So, anyway, what are your favorite memories of Taylor Heineke? What's your number one memory of Heineke? Let me just point out. I never thought he was a good quarterback. It didn't sound that way. I just always thought he was the best option they had while he was here. Right. Right.

Okay. They didn't have any quarterback options. No, they didn't. There are two quarterbacks that they signed. Both got hurt early in the season. We never had a chance to see Fitzpatrick. And by the way, I'll agree with you. He was certainly different than Wentz

in that he didn't soil himself every time he went out under the field, it seemed like. Yeah. So my favorite memory of Taylor, Well, how can it not be the playoff game that they lost at Tampa? The first time we saw them. Right? Yeah, I mean, the best memories are of a loss and a tie.

Exactly. Yeah. I agree. I agree. What about the Colts game? See, that's a game that I think I have, in my own mind, of course, I think I've given him accurate praise for, being the reason that they came back in that game.

People say we threw the 50-50 ball up for McLorn, and McLaurin made a great catch. Yeah, but that misses the fact that he converted two fourth downs when they were down 16 to 7. Now, they only had seven points early in the fourth quarter because they weren't very good offensively, but that was a spectacular two-drive performance by Taylor Heineke. Look, he had a clutch gene.

There's no doubt about that. when the game was on the line, you knew he was not going to pee down his leg. That was not his makeup. And so getting that playoff start, you know, after playing what, the fourth quarter of the Carolina game, like two weeks earlier, or three weeks earlier, whatever it was. And to come in and throw for, I think that's his only, that may be his only 300-yard performance as a quarterback or no, maybe the giant game last year on Thursday night football. he was outstanding in that game. And exactly what you would want from a guy who has never played, who's barely played at that point in a playoff game,

not to come in and totally soil himself right there on the field. Like who was the guy that, remember the quarterback they had a couple of years ago that they put into the game briefly, and he was just terrified? was it was it a Rivera team who's the quarterback that I'm thinking of a Stephen Montez do you remember when they had to put Stephen Montes into a game wow and he was pretty good good good guy I forgot that guy and he was terrified that's one thing that Taylor never was but you're right I think the greatest the memories the two best memories are of a tie and a loss well what they've had more losses than wins that would make sense well the the right answer is well what great

memories from any other quarterback in the last quarter century uh you know are tied to wins um not many uh RG3 certainly had a couple in 2012 Kirk had a couple of here here and there as well um but yeah look I I wish him the best I think it's I'm not being condescending or flipping I swear to God this is the kind of kid. If you watch the kind of kid that I coached in basketball, this is the kind of kid that I would have fallen in love with. And by the way, would have been trying to convince everybody

that he should get more playing time. He is, you know, a coach's dream, you know, from a competitive standpoint, from, you know, an intelligent standpoint, from being having natural leadership skills, the whole thing. But the bottom line is with Taylor Heineke, he just ain't that good. He can't make NFL throws for the most part.

And you're not going to win anything with him as you're starting quarterback for 17 games. So I am actually, you know, cutting to the chase here after 30 minutes. I am actually happy for him, but I am also happy for me that next year we don't have to talk about why the coaching staff and his teammates

are totally screwing him out of being one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. That was a bit much to handle from some of the people in the Heineke Hive. That the coaches were screwing him, that the players were letting him down, enough already. He's a backup quarterback. By the way, a good backup quarterback who just got paid very well and good for him. Do you have any last thoughts on Taylor Heineke? No. No. I have no last thoughts except For whatever reason, a quarterback that they wanted isn't coming back.

You could argue it's because he got paid or whatever. Because, look, I think there's better backup quarterback options. We're going to get to that next, yes. Okay. I even hate to use the word backup quarterback in this situation. I know you do. So why don't we wait until then? Okay.

What do you mean because of Sam Howell? Right. Okay. I thought you were talking about that you don't even like to refer to Taylor as a backup quarterback. No, no, no, no, no. I got it. I got it there at the end. All right, what is next?

And we'll go through in more detail what they did yesterday. And we'll get to all of those things right after these words from a few of our sponsors. That's right, Tommy. Memories of the way we were when Taylor Heineke was in town. I have a question for you about that movie. That was Streisand in Redford, right? Yes. Was it a good movie?

Not for me, it wasn't. Okay. No. I've never seen the movie. And I like Redford a lot, and I'm for the most part like Barbara Streisand. But, uh, no. That movie didn't do anything for me. It's not on my list of anything.

The only reason I asked you is that I saw something recently, and I don't know, It's in the last couple of months. It was on Redford in particular, and it was some maybe documentary, and they were talking about them making of that movie and about how he and Streisand really were at odds with one another, that Redford apparently was a one-take guy. Like, if that one-take wasn't good enough for you, I'm not going to sit here and do it over and over again.

That wasn't his style. He liked to do one take, maybe a second take, and that was it. but Streisand apparently was majorly, you know, a borderline kind of perfectionist, OCD, and every single scene she wanted to continue to do it over and over again because she didn't think she got it right. So it drove him nuts and apparently made the filming of that movie dreadful for him. And it got to the point where he actually thought about walking off the set of that movie. I don't know anything about that movie.

I remember the song because I... I remember my father and mother, loving Barbara Streisand and that being a big song in like the early to mid-70s. But I don't think I've ever seen the movie. I do like Redford. You ever see Jeremiah? You ever see Jeremiah Johnson?

No. Oh, my God. What? Okay. That's Robert Redford's greatest movie. It is? Oh, my God. Who's in it?

Just him for the most part. I've never seen it. I swear to you, I haven't seen it. Well, you got to put, look it, you got to write this down. You got to put it somewhere where you won't forget it. What year was it made? So when you go home, I don't know, I'm thinking 73 maybe. Okay.

72. 1972. Sidney Pollard. Sidney Pollard. Yes. Never seen it. You'll love it. Oh, my gosh.

There you go. That's your homework. Um, you think he's, he's, he's, you think he's, he's, better in that than he was as Bouch Cassidy and Sundance Kid? Or all the president's men? Yes. Or the natural? Jeremiah Johnson? He is Jeremiah Johnson. He's on the screen 90% of the time. What does he say his best movie ever is? Do you know? I don't know. Okay. No, I don't. You know, I mean, I loved him in the natural. I was great in the natural. He was great in the

sting. The sting was such a great movie. Yes, yes, it was. I mean, He was so great. But he's done a lot of great work, you know. But Jeremiah Johnson, that's the gold standard. Okay. By the way, speaking of entertainment, I finished the last of us season one, episodes seven and eight. Eight and nine, excuse me, last night. So I'll just tell you, I like this show.

I don't love the show. I like this show. Episode 8 was great. Episode 7 was a bore. I told you I kind of compared it to the fly, Breaking Bad. The finale was just okay. Overall, I would give it like a solid B to B plus. It's not some of the really good shows that I've watched in recent years. I liked it, and I think you would like it. You're not going to give it a shot, though, because, you know, it doesn't have demigorgans in it. It only has zombies in it.

But I liked it, but I didn't love it. And the number one reason I didn't love it is I kind of felt all along that the relationship between Joel and Ellie was just a little bit too much of a stretch. And I also thought that she in particular at times was difficult to understand, which I've heard from many of you who have said that you had to turn on the subtitle. and watch it that way. She's a Brit, and there was just a lot of a dialogue that, you know, was important dialogue that I thought was hard to understand. I think it got better as it went along, but it's a good show, not a great show, many shows that are better.

Like the show that Tommy and I both agree on, which was Stranger Things, that's a much better show, in my opinion. So I'll never, ever really push you to watch The Last of Us. Now, that's just season one. so maybe season two will be better, and I'll give it a chance in season two, because I liked it enough. You know what actually comes on tomorrow

is season three of Ted Lassau. I am looking forward to that. I forget. Did you watch Ted Lassau or not? I watched the first couple episodes and got forward. Okay. I'm looking forward to... I thought season two was not nearly as good as season one.

I am interested. This is probably nearly two years now since we have had Lassau. But it's out tomorrow the whole season three available. I haven't read any reviews of it. So let me just read a couple of reviews of us, all right? Kevin and Tommy Purify! Exclamation point! exclamation point, exclamation point,

from Hogskins 91 on Apple. Love the show from Connecticut. it, listen to it, so much that my wife and eight-year-old daughter are always saying, enough Kevin Sheehan, can we listen to something else? Then he says some very nice things about me, and I appreciate those. And then he says about you, Tommy, you were the best, although I think you should really start listening to Kevin and stop scrolling through porn. I mean, Google, while he is trying to make a good point.

I think you might be hurting his feelings. I have a place right down the street from Kenny Dees and my girlfriend. goal is to come witness a live performance by the great Tommy Purify. Keep it up, boys. Thank you. I'm for that. This from R.S. Abes via Apple, thanks for sharing your talents. If not for this and Tony's podcast, especially Kevin with Tommy and Kevin's morning radio show via Odyssey. I would toss this cell phone into the Potomac. Well, thank you. for that. And then by the way, very nice reviews. And I got a lot of tweets and emails from people who really enjoyed the conversation with Liz Clark from Friday. Liz is retiring from the Post

after 25 years with the Post, 37 years in total as a journalist. And we talked, you know, a little bit about the football team and then kind of talked about Liz and her career. And people enjoyed that. So I appreciate all of that. pushback from MIJ. Thanks so much for doing the Liz interview. It was wonderful. Always admired her work, especially as an old NASCAR fan. Yeah, Liz had a successful NASCAR book that she wrote after covering NASCAR for a few years. But yeah, Liz, Tommy loves Liz. Liz is one of the most well-liked people in sports media in this town. Speaking of her, she has written this morning with Mark Maskey about ownership. There is a bit of an update on that, and we will get to that here shortly.

This segment is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Go to MyBooky.com. A.G. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. And they will allow you to exit after you wager your deposit amount one time. Most places don't let you do that. MyBooky will. You have to use my promo code, Kevin D.C. If there's something written in the promo code, erase it, and put in Kevin D.C. By the way, I did see upon Garapolo signing in Vegas, now part of this was just, you know, the possibility, the outside chance that it could have been, could have been Aaron Rogers, I guess. But the odds for the Vegas Raiders to win the AFC championship basically went from something like 25 to 1 to 45 to 1.

one after Garoppolo got traded for. So the book's not really super bullish on Jimmy Garoppolo who got $34 million guaranteed in Vegas. And they cut Jared Stidham loose, which I was surprised. I just thought Stidham might be the backup for Josh McDaniels and for Jimmy Garoppel. But he signs a deal and goes to Denver to backup Russell Wilson. All right, so with now the only quarterback on the roster being Sam Howell, Washington needs... Quarterback number one, QB1, as he should be referred to from now on.

Okay, so who will they sign? Well, here are the options. Andy Dalton, you know, we've mentioned Andy Dalton a lot. I actually... You see that? The Saints? the Saints are working to make a deal with James Winston. So that would mean that Andy Dalton would be on the market. I'm surprised at that. But yeah, I think they are more than making a plan to sign them. I think that they can't actually sign them until tomorrow at 4 p.m.

But it looks like James Winston is going to stay there. There's no news as of yet on Andy Dalton. I haven't seen any news yet on Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton would be my number one. He would be because I am not convinced that Sam Hal, like many of you, are that he's going to be the answer. It would be great if he is. Don't get me wrong. But I'm not convinced of it.

And I think Andy Dalton would be the best backup and the best starter, you know, for this team since Kirk Cousins was here. I say that, and I think I've said this a couple of times already, I don't mean to knock Alex Smith's 2018 season. It's probably better just to say that Andy Dalton would be the best quarterback they've had since Alex Smith in 2018. But Alex Smith was not that great in 2018 before his injury. The offense wasn't that good in 2018. I don't consider Dalton to be like a quarterback that's going to lead him to a Super Bowl or deep into the playoffs. But I think with that defense, with the playmakers that they have, if they improve that offensive line, and if many of you are right,

and Eric B. Enemies, a major upgrade at offensive coordinator, I think this team could be a really competitive team with Andy Dalton. And by the way, if Andy Dalton's on the team and he's not playing, then that's a sign to me that Sam Hal actually really is pretty good. He would be my number one choice. Well, it depends. What does it depend on? Depends if he's Ron Sky or not.

All right. Because Ron's guy is going to be the guy that Ron plays. Jacoby Brissette's another possibility. He played very well last year. Baker Mayfield's still out there. Gardner Minchews out there. Marcus Marriota's out there. You know, guys like Chase Daniel, Joe Flacco, they're too old.

Kyle Allen's out there. By the way, you know, and Ben Standing tweeted this out. Carson Wentz is still available. if he really wants to be proven right on Carson Wentz, he could re-sign him for just a one-year deal for like $3 million. I hope it's Dalton. I will tell you right now, I think I'd be as interested in this team as I have been in a while

if Andy Dalton was in training camp battling it out with Sam Hal, even if Sam Hal went in as QB1 sort of his job to lose. I also think Andy Dalton and Jacoby Brissetta both pre-exam Hal, proven that they're okay being backups and mentors, and I think both of them would be excellent mentors to Sam Hal. But how ridiculous would it be, okay? I mean, I agree with everything you said. I think they'd be lucky to get Andy Dahl.

And I think they could be competitive with Andy Dahl, their quarterback, given the weapons they have in their defense. I think the same thing about Teddy Bridgewater, actually. It's also available. Yeah. But if Dalton comes in, will he be QB2? No, we already talked about this. Will he be QB1A?

That's what he would be. Well, QB1A. Yeah. Okay. So he wouldn't be QBA1A. He'd be QB1A. Whatever. Right?

It's Sam Howell's job to lose. It's ridiculous, isn't it? What does that mean? I mean, this is a guy, this is a coach who has declared a couple years ago about Dwayne Haskins, a year after that happened, that I made a mistake. I should have had a quarterback competition. I should have announced it right from the start and made it a competition. You've already said it.

Don't listen to him. He plays to the audience in the moment and then forgets what he said three days later. At this point, it's kind of ridiculous to really listen to Ron Rivera. Talk about anything important. Football wise. said something about your head coach. Well, he didn't know that they were eliminated, or there was a chance that they were eliminated after the Cleveland game.

That says all you need to know about the head coach. He's not the same head coach in terms of how he's being a head coach in Washington that he was in Carolina. He is settled into the CEO role, and hopefully Eric B. Enemy is, you know, a magical playmaker for their offense. and they've got a quarterback that works. Because look, even if Sam Hal is the right guy, I think we've talked about this,

but it's possible that he could be the right guy and we'll learn watching him, he's growing, he's developing, but they're probably not going to be a playoff team with Sam Hal next year. You just don't usually have a guy who is a fifth rounder in his first full year of starting have the kind of performance that is playoff worthy. Now, he's got a good team around them, and if they fix the offensive line, we'll get to that in a moment,

But I would love them to have a failsafe, a legitimate starting failsafe. And to me, Andy Dalton or Jacoby Brissette fit that label. Teddy Bridgewater, there was a time where I like Teddy Bridgewater. I just, the last couple of times I've seen Teddy Bridgewater, nah, including a game he had to play this year for the dolphins, and he just doesn't seem to have it anymore. to be honest with you he's never really had it since the terrible injury so those would be my two top two in that order Dalton Brissette do you have a preference or not

I would say Dalton Dalton would be my number one I'm still higher on Bridgewater than you are but I just find it laughable that Sam Howe is is QB1 I just I'm sorry you know, when the coach speaks, I mean, what else do we have to go by other than what the coach says? Now, I understand coach speak. Believe me, I understand that. But the contradictions are overwhelming sometimes and embarrassing. And we should talk about that when it comes

to signing Duran Payne. Well, you haven't weighed in on the signing of Duran Payne. So what do you want to say about Duran Payne? What do you want to say? Look, I think, you know, you could argue that it's a lot of money between two defensive tackles to invest in that position, but he's a good player. And this team has wasted a lot of money on bad players. So if they're going to invest money poorly, at least invest in a good player in this case. but what I find ironic is with Rivera you know I mean

I've maintained that you saw the best of Chase Young this past year because he was trying to get paid you know and I can't find it now what are you looking for what are you looking for?

I'm looking for Ron Rivera's comments about about Chase Young when he was talking about using the 50-year option as a motivational tool for Chase Young. And his reference was Duran Payne. He said, look what Duran Payne did in a contract year, basically. He played his best. You see, this works.

Why wouldn't it work for Chase Young? So basically, he's saying this guy played his best year because he was going to get paid. Yeah, of course, Duran Payne was playing on his fifth year option year, and they're contemplating not even picking up the fifth year option for Chey Chung. Look, the Chase Young thing, I think, you know, right now, one of the top storylines after the ownership stuff, which is, you know, one, and then everything else is one, A, B, C, D, D, F, H, I J, J, K, L MN OP. I think one of the most I think one of the most intriguing storylines right now and important storylines for this franchise after the owner

of course is Chase Young and what they do in two months or in it's more like nine weeks or whatever it is eight eight seven weeks whatever it is it's early May that they've got to pick up the fifth year option do you know what that says if they don't pick up the fifth year option on Chase Young, it says that they are totally fine right now

with him leaving at the end of next year. That this is a one-year deal, and if it turns out that he's the Chase Young we saw as a rookie and the Chase Young we saw at Ohio State, then they can franchise tag him. They can franchise tag him and then try to come up with a long-term deal. but picking up the fifth year option would be the best way to do it. Actually, you know what?

I'm talking myself into something right now. This is beautiful the way this just worked out. It actually may make more sense for them if they're unsure about him, not to pick up the fifth year option. And just to use, if he ends up having a great fourth season this year, use the franchise tag and try to settle in on a long-term deal with him on the franchise tag next off season. Because if they pick up the fifth year option, they're locked in to whatever that number would be in 2024 on the fifth year option for that position. Actually, maybe it's not

as telling. I just completely did a 180 there. And I, you know, why? Because it makes sense to me that if they aren't sure about him, and I think it's, I think it's clear that they're not sure about him. I still think it was stupid that Ron Rivera went public with the Duran pain comparison and contemplating not picking up the fifth year option and, you know, by the way, injecting the health of the knee back into the conversation. I think that was stupid because if they really don't think that they're going to want him at the end of next year, they should be trying to trade him right now. And maybe he's hard to trade right now. But we did see two games of them. And he looked athletic to me. He looked like to Chase Young, you know,

athletically from his rookie year. But this is a really interesting part of their football team right now. This guy, they picked number two overall. This guy was the defensive rookie of the year.

They passed on potential quarterbacks in Tuatunga Viloa and Justin Herbert to take him in that number two spot. And by the way, I didn't disagree with it. I thought Tua's hip was a major red flag, and I was not a big fan of Justin Herbert coming out of Oregon, nor were they, nor were a few teams, until it got to the Chargers at number six.

But can you imagine the number two pick in the draft not getting his fifth-year option picked up when, I mean, the fifth-year option without a contract extension? But maybe it is the best strategy for them. They can always franchise him at the end of next year. Well, my point being, I agree. with a lot of what you said, but my point is his blurting out that Duran Payne was motivated by getting paid, and now he's just sign him to a night. What's his motivation now? Well, this is the argument. This is the argument that, you know, you have made, and because, by the way,

it wasn't so much what Ron said about him. Your opinion was really shaped on what Duran was putting out there, which was it was all about the money. That's what had bothered you, that there were social media posts and other things that led you to believe that this guy just had a career year because he was on a contract year. And that's not an unreasonable position to have. My position is he was one of your best three football players on the team last year. He's been one of your best six or seven football players easily throughout his career. I don't let those guys go, especially when I don't have a lot of them. And I, my hunch, and I have no idea if I'm right about this, is that this guy at 25 years old, with Sam Mills being gone, and that guy was a

major problem for the defensive line as a coach, that we saw the beginning of something special here. This guy was dominant last year at the position. You could actually make the case he was their best football player, but it was either him or McLaren or John Allen. And then And then the second part of that, he doesn't miss games. He's played an 81 out of a potential 82 games. And if you're getting him entering his prime, his age 26 season, off of his best season, man, I would have hated to see him, you know, not next year because he would have played on the tag potentially, but the year after that, he leaves because you can't afford to tag him twice.

I think it was a smart signing by the team. I could be proven wrong easily. even in the years that Duran Payne wasn't in a contract year he was good he still played he still was good that's right he wasn't like he was last year but he was still good okay yeah so and like I said you know they've paid a lot of bad players a lot of money

so even if it's too much to invest in one position between him and Jonathan Allen at least you know you're probably not wasting your money on the talent. What's interesting is, it's the $90 million. Is that the biggest contract a player has ever gotten for this franchise?

Um... I think it is, isn't it? Uh, I don't know. I'm thinking here. I don't think anyone's ever gotten paid more than that. Well, in terms of aggregate contract value? Well, wasn't Albert Hainsworth's deal? I know it was like 41 million guaranteed,

but wasn't it over 100 million? And that was back in 2008. I'm looking it up right now. You're right. Okay. Am I right? I think it was. You might be right.

I remember it was 41 million in guaranteed money. Yeah, it was a seven-year $100 million contract with the Redskins on the first day of free agency. Oh, okay. So that's still the gold standard. Yeah, in many ways. Yeah, real quickly. My point is, go ahead.

The pain making $90 million, Terry McClureen getting a $71 million extension, and Jonathan Allen getting a $72 million extension. Who drafted those guys? I know. I pointed that out yesterday. The best players on this team are the players that were here when this group got here.

That is true. Yeah. And by the way, that's always the case in the first year or two of a new coaching staff because I get that. Yeah, but now they're entering year four. No, you're right. And now we're talking about Ron's first guy up for review, arguably, is their defensive end, Chase Young, and they don't want to commit to him for a fifth year.

I don't want to commit that fifth year option. That's true. I mean, Chase Young is Ron's first judgment case. Yep. Cameron Curl came in the seventh round of that draft, and he's probably next up. He in sweat, you know, for an extension. I mean, that was a hell of a pick in Cameron Curl

because he's a really good player, and Gibson's a good player too from that draft, but it doesn't matter. You can't get the number two pick in the draft that wrong. Now, if it's wrong because the injury will limit him from being what he could have become, that's not their fault. But let's face it, before the injury, there were, you know, there were rumblings of trouble. Yes.

Now, what I'd like to see is I'd like to see Chase Young come out and have the kind of season that I thought we would see from him after college and then after his rookie year. I hope that happens for them. Yeah, go ahead. The next one is Montez Sweat. I know. That's another brute guy. I just said that. Were you Googling? I was looking at porn.

Sorry. On the moves they made yesterday, I, look, people, there is, with, you know, social media now, everybody's a film expert, you know, everybody's an expert on all these guys. I'm not, okay? I'm not an expert on Andrew Wiley or Nick Gates or Cody Barton. or Cam Dantzler. All right. And I would suggest that especially at the positions they play, that scheme, that system,

that responsibilities, that position, that players around them, all of those things will contribute to whether or not it will work out for them. These were the only thing I can say about their day yesterday. Overall, takeaway is they, all these players were, we're basically. gotten on the cheap. These were mid-level and low-level free agent signings without a lot of downside to signing these players at positions of need. And so if they turn out to be much better than Andrew Norwell and Trey Turner from last year are, then there's only upside here. Now, the other important part of this for me was just to get a sense from people like John and Ben as to what

the team is thinking with respect to position. Nick Gates, John, is convinced as a center, that they brought him in here to be a center, not a guard. Wiley, he's either going to be the right tackle or right guard, more likely than not right tackle with Cosme moving to right guard. It certainly will not stop them from drafting an offensive lineman if he's the best player on the board at 16. As far as Barton goes, I did like him and watched enough of him to know how active he is, how he can run, how he's a good tackler. But again, system fit, have no idea if it'll work here. Cam Dantzler, I watched a lot of him the last couple of years because I liked him coming

out of Mississippi State. He was on that team with Montez Sweat and Jeffrey Simmons and some of those really good defensive players at Mississippi State. But man, he could not stay healthy. And when he was out there, it was total hit and miss. But he's one of these guys at 6-2 with long arms can run a little bit. If he can stay healthy, maybe he ends up being a guy that can help him. But there was no, you know, they picked him up off waivers.

So those are the players, right? And they re-signed Danny Johnson. So that's what you have right now. The draft, you know, whatever, whoever the best player on the board is, and hopefully it's at, you know, a tackle or a line or a corner. primarily or a tight end, that's where they should go. And they're still in position to do that. They sign some players at need positions,

but it's not like they're all buttoned up in those positions, not as of now. Look, unlike you, I don't know if these guys are going to work out or not. I don't know how good offensive linemen they were. The guy from Kansas City played 59 games with the chief. And he's a B-Annemy guy. going for him. Yes, and he's a enemy guy. He's coming here, obviously,

in part because of Eric Bianemy. So I think those are all good things right there. But nobody knows. Nobody knows yet. You're right. All right. Look, bottom line is we all knew going into free agency and into

the draft. They need offensive linemen. They need to take they need to put, they need to throw bodies at this situation and hopefully they land on a new body or two to plug in that are better than what they had last year. I do think center is in particular very important because if Sam Hal really is your QB1, it's going to be important that he's got a solid, healthy, consistent veteran center that he's playing with, which would take

some of the responsibilities away from him and give him to the center in terms of protections. All right, let's finish up the show. You've got some things. I've got some things. We'll get to them right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell everybody about Shelley's, which I would imagine would be a great place to sit down, grab a stogie, grab a cold beer, and watch March Madness.

Okay, look at this. Look, I'll do the selling around here, Boba Louie. Okay. And don't you forget it. All right, well, let me start over. Tommy, tell us about Shelley's backwards. material from. You're stealing my material from me. I might be down there on Friday, not Thursday. Well, it's the place to be for watching Mark Madden. They got eight high-definition TVs spread

all throughout both rooms of the bar. There's two rooms, so there's plenty of room at Shelly's. You know, I've already told you about the great menu they have and the great selections of beer and whiskey. and the great staff they have. Like I say, if you're new to cigar smoking and you need some help picking out a cigar, they've got a cigar menu available, and they'll give you advice. They'll ask you what you're looking for.

They'll know what to give you in terms of starting out, you know, and things like that. It's just a friendly, comfortable place. And I tell you what, it's the only place in D.C. or Maryland, for that matter, the only bar restaurant where at the end of the game if you're team won March Madness

you can do like Red Hourback did and light up a victory cigar Yeah you can you can light up that Red Arbeck victory cigar when your team wins That's right You know the story about Red Hourback You see it at legal seafood in Boston all the time

The original And they had Yes And they had no smoking But it always said on the menu except for Red Hourback. Yeah, they had to make an exception for Big Red. All right.

So you can be just like, you could just be like Red Hourback and enjoy a good victory cigar when your team wins at Shelley's backroom, 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district. Great beer menu. Burgers are good. Good spot to watch games on Thursday and Friday. By the way, it's supposed to be. It's freezing here today and windy here today.

Yeah. But it is going to be, I'm looking it up right now because I looked at it earlier today. On Thursday 60, on Friday 62. How about that? It would have been better, I guess, if it had been kind of chilly and damp so you can stay inside and watch hoops all day, which I will be doing anyway. Real quickly, I was coming in here this morning after the radio show. just went out, got some coffee. I was driving back. I was listening to the NFL networks on Sirius XM. And the host, I think it was that guy, Adam Shine, was talking about this world

baseball classic. I'm not following it at all, but apparently Mike Trout hit a monster home run for the U.S. This is what he said. And then he made the following comment, and I made a note of it because I wanted to ask you. He said, Mike Trout might be the best player that's ever lived. the best all-around player that's ever lived. And I just went, excuse me? That's a bit much. That seems like the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life. Yeah.

I know that he's a great player. Who, by the way, correct me if I'm wrong, has he ever played in a playoff game? No. So do people in baseball consider Trout to be one of the greatest players or rivaling the best players that have ever played the game? One of the best players ever, no. No, no, no, no.

Nobody that I know does. Okay. I mean, the first guy most people think of is Willie Mays or Babe Ruth, or I know this may be shocked to Adam Schein. You know, Josh Gibson in the Negro leagues. There's a lot of, I mean, Hank Aaron, there's a number of players that would be ahead of Mike Trout on. that list. He's the best player in baseball now, although some people would say Mokey Betts

is the best player in baseball. But that's an absurd comment made by a child, obviously. Who's the greatest... Now, you want to talk baseball. Who's the greatest player of all time? Yeah, but just real quickly, who's the greatest player of all

time? I think Willie Maze's. He could do it all. More than Ruth Ray. Run, catch. Yeah, I think very highly of Ruth. I'm not one of these guys who think just because he played in the segregated error that he doesn't deserve to be among the greatest of all time. His home run totals were so far ahead of whoever was in second place. Right, exactly.

When you dwarf the competition, it goes beyond those roadblocks that you think of. Well, I think it's Willie Mays. Okay. I think it's Mays Aaron Ruth. Mays, Aaron Ruth. Okay. Yeah. Not Mike Trump.

Now, I want to talk about a great player for the New York Yankees who passed away. Very near and dear to my heart, a guy named Joe Pepito. Right. You ever hear of him? Of course. Okay. He was on the Yankees of the 60s. He was a pretty good first basement and a pretty good power hitter.

Hit 28 home runs for them one year. Gove in 100 RBI, hit 31 home runs for them another year. But he passed away, and I'm just telling you, if you want to read a baseball biography, an autobiography, that will just shock you and blow you away. He came up with an autobiography about 35, 40 years ago called Joe. You could have made it proud. I've never seen anyone reveal themselves so openly as he did in this book, when the revelations are so ugly to reveal.

What were the revelations? I mean, in terms of sex, in terms of lying, cheating, drugs, alcohol. I mean, he was a five-tool player when it came to vices, okay? So he was a party, he was a party guy. Yeah, I'm reading right now, the obituary. I had no idea. Of course, I've heard of Joe Pepitone. Yeah.

He, uh, he was arrested in Brooklyn in March of 18, March 18th, at 1985 for running a red light. The car contained nine ounces of cocaine, 344 quailudes, a free basing kit, a pistol, and $6,300 in cash. I told you. That was, that was, he spent four months in Rikers. This guy, look, this is important. This is near and dear to me because he grew up in my neighborhood in Brooklyn. He did?

I mean, like literally a couple blocks from where I grew up. I have a button still, a big button that says Joe Pepitone, the kid from Brooklyn. And our insurance guy gave it to me when I was a little kid, but he was. friends with the Peppaton family. They even got us tickets once to see a Yankee game. It's the only time I ever went to see a Yankee game in old Yankee Stadium.

And Joe Pepitone grew up on St. Mark's Avenue, a couple blocks away from May on Sterling Place. And it's funny because in the book, he mentions this family, this friend of his name, whose last name was

Fortunato. Okay, well, I went at school with Tommy. Tommy Fortunato, and they were probably the toughest family in all of Brooklyn. I mean, they were tough. I remember sitting by my window in Brooklyn, because that's what you did back then. You sat at the window and you watched the world go by because there was always some kind of shit going on. And it was late at night, and I watched his mother slap the shit out of this guy's either wife or Beyonce or out of her son's wife.

or fiancé or girlfriend or something like that because she caught her cheating on him. I mean, just beat her up right there in the street. This was the mother. Okay. This was also Brooklyn in the 60s. Yes. Yes, this was. This was definitely Brooklyn in the 60s.

So, I mean, Joe Pepitone was a hero of mine growing up before I knew about all the Coke and all the other stuff he did. but it's a hell of a book. And don't forget, Joe Pepitone, according to Kramer, also designed Central Park. Right, of course. You know, somebody else, two other people passed away since we last did the show. Bud Grant, the longtime Vikings coach, probably the number one legend, maybe, in the history of Minnesota sports. I don't know. I mean, it's Bud Grant, Kirk Cousins, Kirby Puckett, who else am I missing?

No, but seriously, Bud Grant's probably like Gibbs is here. Bud Grant's probably number one, right? I mean, Timberwolves haven't been around that long. You know what's ironic? What? Is ironic? He never won a Super Bowl. No, he lost four of them.

Okay. Yeah. But Tom Kelly, who is the manager of the Minnesota Twins, won two World Series. Right. But he's not in the same conversation with Bud Grant. No, but Kirby Puckett might be, in terms of legends in the history of Minnesota sports. you know, along with, you know, Fran Tarkington and Chuck Foreman and Alan Page and Carl Eller and the Purple People Eaters, the whole thing. But anyway, he passed away. He was 95 years old. I remember they, the playoff game that they had back in 2015 against Seattle and they had to play it outdoors because they were still building the new stadium.

And they were playing at the University of Minnesota. And I think it was like three below zero. And there was a shot of bud, you know, walking out onto the field before and like a short sleeve Oxford without a coat. on. And, you know, to think of him as a 95-year-old, in some ways I kind of thought he might have been older. But it dovetails into the other guy that passed away since we last did a show because Super Bowl 4, which Bud Grant coached, Joe Cap, the Minnesota Vikings 12.5 point favorites against Hank Stram and the Kansas City Chiefs, and the Chiefs won that game. It was back-to-back massive upsets. You know, think about you live through that. think about Super Bowl 3 and Super Bowl 4 back to back.

Joe Namath and the Jets pull off the biggest upset at the time in sports history against the Colts. And then the next year, the NFL franchise, the Chiefs, as a 12.5 point underdog beat the NFL franchise in Minnesota. But the guy that caught a touchdown pass in that game for the Kansas City Chiefs, Otis Taylor passed away. And I briefly mentioned him, I think, on the podcast on Friday. Tommy, for me, and I know you've written about the Chiefs teams and all of their Hall of Famers on defense, Buck Buchanan, et cetera, all those guys. Willie Lanier, Thomas, the corner that was here, all those guys. Yeah, Emma Thomas. That is the Chiefs of the early to mid-70s with Hank Stram.

I mean, my first memories are of George Allen's 71 skins. and then of, you know, the football that was going on at the time. The Chiefs were a glamour team. And Otis Taylor and Lenny Dawson, you know, and all of those great defensive players, one of the first games I remember watching was Redskins at Chiefs in George Allen's first year in 1971. Otis Taylor, I think, had a touchdown in that game. And he was a major start. By the way, not in the Hall of Fame, which actually surprised me.

He was on the ballot this past year as a senior but didn't make it. But Washington played the Chiefs in the middle of the season, 1971, and Washington was undefeated. And Charlie Taylor broke his leg or broke his ankle in that game with Washington up. And then they ended up losing the first game of the year. And they didn't have Charlie Taylor the rest of the year. They ended up going to the playoffs in George Allen's first year. but it was like magical to see the Redskins against the Chiefs. Do you remember that era of the Chiefs, Raiders being like the best rivalry in football?

And, you know, they were AFL teams, obviously, but they were a glamour team. Oh, the Chiefs Raiders was always much watch because the Raiders were just every bit a glamour team. Right. Dowell Lomotica, the mad bomber at quarterback, you know, the, I mean, they were very much. Upshaw and Shell. Lenticoff and Warren Well. Jim Otto. Yeah.

Yeah. Fred Davidson. Ben Davidson, I mean, the guy with the Handel Bar mustache at defensive end. Ted Hendricks, all of them. Yeah. Yeah. The Chiefs were a glamour team. And Hank Stram was a high-profile coach to watch.

Fun to watch on the sideline. Yeah. I just pulled up the box score from that game. October 24, 1974, 1971. Washington was 5-0. The Chiefs were 4-1-1. So this was a heavyweight game, 4 o'clock, you know, national TV. And Otis Taylor caught two touchdown passes in that game from Lenny Dawson.

But Washington had a 17-6 lead, and it was on a 36-yard touchdown pass from Kilmer to Taylor, and I believe that it's on that play, and somebody will tweet me at Kevin Sheen, D.C. to let me know that I'm right or wrong about that. But I think it was on that play that Taylor fractured his ankle or leg, I forget, and they weren't the same the rest of the year offensively without Charlie Taylor. But Otis Taylor in that game, two touchdown catches for the Chiefs. Len Dawson, I mean, he would be smoking on the sideline. you know, when the defense was out on the field. All right.

You got anything else? Well, you know, I hate to bring it up again. Your foot? Well, I don't really. No, no, no. You know, I've told this story before, but Jack Del Rio beat the crap out of Oates Taylor once. Oh, right, right, right.

You did tell me that story. Yeah, during the strike. Yeah. Because he thought that Otis Taylor, who was a coach, I think or a scout for the chiefs was a scab crossing the picket line. Yeah, but he was a coach. And he literally beat him up. Yeah.

I mean, Otis Taylor was like 45 years old at the time, I think. Yeah. Yeah, there's pictures of that confrontation, by the way, before whatever happened happened. That's unfortunate. All right. All right, anything else? How's your foot? Just real quickly update everybody on your foot.

Much, much better. to see a doctor today, but no walking boot. I think I'll have a full recovery. All right, my friend, Thursday back here. We're going to get a show out early. I'm going to need your commitment to be ready to go right when my radio show ends because we've got games that start at 1215, and the first game of the day on Thursday is Maryland, West Virginia. We'll talk brackets. We'll do a lot of college basketball on Thursday. That's it for the day. Heineke off play action. There's Fowler in the backfield.

Heineke gets away, lobs it in the end zone, and it's caught. It's a touchdown. A full situation, he ends up with six.