The Kevin Sheehan Show - A New Day

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Kevin today on the turning of the Dan Snyder page. He also has recommended opening remarks for Josh Harris. The rest of Kevin and Andy Pollin's conversation from yesterday as well.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Between Dallas and Washington. Why did I open up the show with the Rocket-ishmile game, you ask? Well, that was the first game of the Dan Snyder era. September 12th, 1999, Dan had just taken.

over the franchise a few months earlier. That was the first time. He sat in his box at FedEx Field as the owner of the team, a team that he would own for 24 years, along and painful, 24 years. That comes to an end this afternoon. I'm recording this podcast, by the way, before the vote. We'll have, you know, the vote and all of the follow-up to the vote

on tomorrow's show. But, yeah, that Rocket Ishmael game, and everybody who's a hardcore fan knows the Rocket Ishmael game. That was a bit of a harbinger of things to come. What a game it was. I looked up the box score from this game. We all remember that Washington had a 35 to 14 lead and Aikman led a comeback. They scored 21 in the fourth quarter to tie it up. But that overtime play, by the way, Ishmael is wide open. Everybody bit on the play fake to Emmett Smith in the backfield. He ran by Darrell Green. He ran by the safety, 76 yards, and a no-brainer touchdown. In that game,

Brad Johnson threw for 382 and two touchdowns. Total yardage in the game? A thousand 45 yards in the game. Each team went over 500 yards of total offense. Remember, if Dan had gotten his way after he bought the team, because he wanted to undo the Brad Johnson train, Brad Johnson wouldn't have been the quarterback that day for the Redskins. But anyway, that was Dan's first game as owner, the Rocket Ishmael game. The last one for him as the owner was the Sam Howl game over Dallas at the end of last year. Now, he was not there for that game. Remember, he didn't go to the last few games. If you're wondering, you probably were not wondering, I was, so I looked it up.

During the Snyder era, Washington was 15 and 33 against the Cowboys. 15 and 33, and keep in mind, it's not like those were the Jimmy Johnson's Super Bowl cowboy teams during the Dan Snyder era. He got there after the Super Bowls that Jerry won. 15 and 33 against the Cowboys. Gibbs was 4 and 4 against Dallas with Dan as the owner. Rivera is three and three against the Cowboys so far. Only one coach of the 10 that coached here over the 24 year Snyder reign. Only one coach had a winning record under Dan. I think sometimes everybody just says no coach that coach for Dan ever had a winning record. That's actually not true.

I think we sometimes forget that Norv in his one complete season with Dan as the owner in 1999, went 10 and 6, and then in 2000, before he got fired at the end of the year, he was 7 and 6. So, Norv was the first Snyder coaching casualty, the first time he booted a coach. But he was 17 and 12 under Snyder. He did not have a winning record as the Washington coach, but Norv was 17 and 12 under Snyder. So technically Snyder did have one winning coach. and it was Norv Turner, and he fired him at the end of his second season. Marty was 8-and-8, 500, and then all of the other eight coaches, full-time and interim.

Don't forget Terry Robisky, or as Dion called him, Terry Rabinsky, Bill Callahan as well, all of the other coaches, including Joe Gibbs, left here with losing records. I personally hate giving Dan any credit for 1999. That 10 and 6 season with a playoff win goes on his record, but he had nothing to do with it and tried his best to ruin it before it started. Rocket Ishmael. Oh man, the days of Washington versus Dallas meaning something. That would be fun to see again down the road. The show today is brought to you by the Circa Million and the Circus Survivor pools out at the Circus.

sports book, Hotel and Casino out in Vegas. It's the biggest and best sports book out in Vegas. The Circa million guarantees $6 million in prizes, a million dollars to the winner. Pick five teams against the spread every week. And if your record is the best at the end of the season, you'll take home a million dollars. But there are another $5 million in guaranteed prizes in that pool. The Circa survivor pool is like any survivor pool. You pick one team straight up. up no spread each week to win. If that team loses or ties, you're out. You can only pick each team once per season. Eight million dollars is guaranteed to the winner or winners in that contest. So $14 million in guaranteed prizes for the Circa Million and the Circa Survivor pool.

There's no rake. So if entries go above the guarantee, all extra money will go to the prize pool. Entries close September 9th at 2 p.m. They're open right now. The last chance to enter is September 9th at 2 o'clock. You must register in person at a circus sports book in Nevada.

So I understand you've got to be in Nevada to do this. Weekly picks can be made, however, through a proxy from anywhere, including your home. The Circa million, the circus survivor pools are the biggest and the best out in Vegas. If you're planning a trip to Vegas before the

of the summer or right before week one of the NFL season. Consider these contests, they are good ones. So Washington hasn't won the Super Bowl, as we know, since January of 1992, basically just over 31 years ago. It was their third Super Bowl win in 10 years. They went to four over a 10-year period. They won three of them. At that moment in time, Washington was one of the best two franchises in the NFL. The other one was the 49ers. The two of them were the teams of the 80s, and Washington had just won the 91 Super Bowl. There was no indication on that day back in January of 1992 when the skins annihilated the bills that we wouldn't get close to another Super Bowl for 31 years. Man, that 91 team was so good. I think one of the greatest of all time. 14 and

two in the regular season. Two losses, one in the season finale to the Eagles, where the starters basically sat much of the game. And the other one, a close loss to the Cowboys. Remember that ended that 11-0 start in their run at a perfect season. They dominated the playoffs. They won three games against Atlanta, Detroit, and Buffalo by a margin of 102 to 41. Those 91 skins were awesome. But that was the culmination of an incredible run by the franchise. You know, if you go back to 1971 in the arrival of George Allen, there was a 22-year period with George Allen, Jack Paradee for a brief period, and then Joe Gibbs as the coach, that if you put side-by-side with Dan's 24 years, kind of tells the tale, kind of tells why we are where we are to a certain

degree as it relates to the results on the field. That run from 1971 through actually 1992 because the 91 team went back to the playoffs in 92 and they won a game in the postseason. But during that 22-year run of 71 to 92, the franchise went 21, 111, 111 games above 500. During that 22-year span, 28 playoff games, 18 and 10 record in those playoff games, five Super Bowl appearances, three Lombardi trophies. You know, the result was one of the most successful franchises in the league, in one of the most passionate fan bases in all of sports. By contrast, Dan Snyder's 24 seasons, 164. 24, 220, and two. All right, 56 games below 500.

Two playoff wins. Two. The last one 17 years ago. And again, the first one came in that 1999 season where he didn't have a chance at that point to put his paws all over the roster, which he wanted to do, but he didn't have enough time to screw up the 99 team. I hate giving him credit for that, but it goes on his record. 56 games under 500.

More than twice as many last place finishes than anybody in the NFC East. A franchise that was awful most of the time and average the rest of the time. And really, you know, absent of the Joe Gibbs teams, two of them anyway, that went to the postseason, and the RG32012 season, there really weren't any more. moments of legitimate on the field hope. And then of course, off the field, the way he behaved, the way the organization behaved, he truly ran what was one of the great organizations in the NFL and in sports into the ground in 24 years. We've been through it over and over again. I know that. Dan was an absolute disaster as an owner. His team's not.

only lost and lost a lot. The behavior of his organization was, you know, at best, immature, and at worst, you know, arrogant, dumb, and mean. You know, he got here in 99. And yeah, the team was in the midst of a tough run. I have not forgotten that. But the passion for the team hadn't waned. Norve was the man Jack Kent Cook and Charlie Casserly picked to help kind of rebuild the franchise in 94. after the Gibbs run in the one, you know, Richie Pettibone year. And the team was old when Gibbs and Pettibone were done with it. Free agency and the salary cap were part of the game.

No longer could you draft players and stash them on IR like this franchise did for several years until they were ready to play. And yeah, I remember 93 to 98. Just two winning seasons in six years, no playoff appearances. But remember the 9th. 99 draft, which was before Snyder took over the team, was the draft where Charlie pulled off one of the all-time one-sided trades. You know, dealing with the Saints and Mike Dicka, you know, they wanted Ricky Williams so badly. Washington moves from number five overall back two spots,

just two spots, to number seven overall in the first round. And they get the Saints' entire 1999 draft, and they get the Saints' first and third round picks. in the 2000 draft. By the way, that first round pick would become number two overall. Washington, remember, in the 2000 draft, had number two and number three and took Chris Samuels and LeVar Arrington. Plus, they traded in that offseason before Snyder took over for Brad Johnson, and things were looking up again.

But, you know, before Snyder arrived, it was still our team. You know, when Dan purchased the team, it became his. And the love affair, even though most of us didn't really know it at the time, the love affair with the team would start a decline in 1999 that lasted 24 years to a point where we are today, with two-thirds of what was the fan base then gone or mostly gone. I talked about some of what I'll mention now a few months ago, but Dan saw the team as his team, not out. hours, and it's the way he did business. You know, if you were a season ticket holder, a fan of the team, a business partner of the team, if you were an employee of the team, you were made to feel like you should be grateful that he and his organization were giving you the opportunity to be a part of what he owned. You were the lucky one, not him. You know, I talked about this a few months ago.

He never viewed us as the customer. He viewed us as a target, as an ATM. And he took advantage of us because we were so devoted, so emotionally attached, that we were easy to take advantage of. You know, the product didn't have to be good as long as the memories of it being good made us write another check for tickets or put down another credit card for a jersey. The whole thing was a scam. It was a con. We were slow to the punch to figure it out, but eventually we got there. Most of us did anyway. And that's what we dealt with.

We dealt with a guy who was focused on making money. We dealt with a guy who came into an organization that we had been used to as classy and well-behaved. And, you know, I talked about this before, but it was like the Griswold showed up in 1999. Rude, crass, mindless, dumb, and arrogant. You know, the losing was bad. bad enough. But we've talked about this. Lovable losers survive. That wasn't the case with this group. They were the worst combination. Arrogant and dumb. Mistake after mistake after mistake. But the arrogance always got in the way of learning from those mistakes. You know, it was never,

ever his fault. It was always someone else's fault. And his lack of self-awareness and understanding of that combined with the impulsivity, made it much worse for him because nobody smacked himself in the face as much as this guy did. We talked about the emails on John Gruden, you know, the private investigators intimidating former employees. This guy did it to himself. But we helped get the franchise to where it is today, which is starting late today, a franchise that will move forward without the worst owner in the history of the NFL for all intents and purposes. We helped, you know, because while we were suckers for many, many years, most of us finally figured it out. We got slapped around so much. We finally said no. And over the last five to six years,

the acceleration of the loss of the fan base was in overdrive. There were stragglers. You know, there were stragglers. There were 10, 12, 15,000 a week that made their way out to FedEx Field. God bless you. Bless your hearts. You didn't help, but I don't, you know, hold it against you because there were enough people that really hit him where it hurt the most. And that was in his wallet.

You know, they were borrowing money. The league was looking at them like the worst earner in the league, lowest attendance, local TV ratings in the dumper, private sponsorship, corporate sponsorship in the dumper. We had a lot to do with getting it to where it got to today. Look, without the John Gruden emails and the private investigators, you know, intimidating, et cetera, all of that stuff that brought out the congressional oversight committee that started that investigation into the Tiffany Johnston and eventually the Jason Friedman stuff. The league finally, got to the point. And look, the Snyders, I think, were already headed there, the family,

to getting him to sell the team without having to force him out, which I still to this day don't think would ever happen. The women came forward, the many, many women, dozens that came forward and talked about their employment with the team led to so much, including the Beth Wilkinson investigation, which has led to this three-year period of investigation after investigation after investigation, lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. They're still coming. Mary Joe White, by the way, is in Minneapolis for this league vote. She's apparently, according to reports, going to update the owners on her investigation. We did learn the other day that Dan actually met with Mary Joe White. That was our big reveal by Nikki Javala and Mark

Masky in the Post. But the women that came forward, those that supported, those women, all of us as fans, and certainly Dan, the big reason why he's lost his team, his behavior, his incompetence over a long period of time, regardless of whether or not he really loved the team and wanted to win, he never learned how. But we've, you know, we've helped this along, and here we are. We are here, and it's the start of a new era. And I have to be totally honest with you. I am not super passionate. I'm not super celebratory right now. It's a bit bitter sweet. It's sweet that he's going. It's bitter that he sucked the life out of the team for so many of us, me included, and that I don't feel the same way I felt

about the team five years ago. I think 2017 was kind of the mark for me. I know it was the final year of Kirk, understood. But I think just the handling of that and the behavior around that, I just think that, you know, that was another rock bottom moment. And I think it was the last one for me. And I really did start, look, there were moments. End of 2009. Tommy and I talked about that the other day.

End of 2013. You know, I promise that, you know, I remember after Shanahan was fired, and he picked RG3 over Shanahan and his staff. I said, you know, it's going to be hard for me to be back in, you know, with blinders on. I'm going to have to have some proof here that Snyder's had an epiphany, that he understands it's him. But anyway, it's been four or five years.

I've been honest with everybody, and all of you have been honest with me. I mean, you've all shared a lot of, you know, how you feel about the team. And I got a lot of tweets today and a lot of calls from various people who, you know, kind of felt this feel the same way I do, which is if we could push the clock back five years, this is, you know, put the lampshade on, let's get hammered, and let's celebrate deep into the night into the early morning hours of tomorrow. You know, we finally got what we got. This tweet I wanted to read, it came from, you know, at Skinsdraft. happy for folks that can savor Dan Snyder's exit.

I'm not going to pee on anyone's parade. It's unmistakably good news no matter how you slice it. Though his rebrand finally killed it for me. I remember what it felt like to want him gone more than anything in the world. Enjoy. Yeah, I remember those days too. And I am glad he's gone. And I love games and I love talking about games.

And there at least now is this light at the end of the tunnel that says it's a normal, it will be a normal functioning franchise and we don't have to suspend the reality that Dan Snyder still owns this team. It'll be interesting if they start to do things that we all like and they start to win on the field, how many of us will come back and feel the same way about the team that we used to feel. I think more likely than not, if they produce a really good product that we're proud of and that represents the city, I think we'll be back, but we'll treat it as something new that we're into. And we'll remember the old, but treat this as something new. And maybe it'll just become a new passion at some point.

The chance now exists for that to happen. It didn't with Dan here. Later in the show, I'm going to play the second part of my conversation with Andy Poland. I probably yesterday that you would hear that. I'm also going to end the show today with some more sound. This is sound of Joe Gibbs that I found on the internet. And it's just kind of Joe doing Joe things in interviews where he fears the upcoming opponent and then talks about how he's going to need the fans. And it was just the ultimate in underpromising and over delivering. I hope that's what this next group understands more than anything else. Speaking of this next group, it's very possible by the time that you listen to this podcast

that Josh Harris has already made some remarks. Now, I do think that tomorrow there will be a press conference of sorts at the event that they're having at FedEx Field. So we will comment on all of those on a podcast either tomorrow or I might wait, especially if it's later in the afternoon. I may wait until Saturday morning to put out so that we have all of the sound from the new group. Josh Harris, maybe Mitchell Rails will speak. Maybe Magic Johnson will speak.

Who knows? But when we come back and before we get to Andy, I'm going to give you my suggested opening remarks for Josh Harris the first time he's actually in one of those. you know, press conference settings. We will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. It's possible as you are listening to this podcast that Josh Harris has already made some remarks. I would imagine coming out of that ballroom after the vote today that Josh Harris and Roger Goodell will be ambushed by some of the reporters. But I think something more formal will happen tomorrow.

And when that happens, we're going to hear, you know, Josh Harris, I think, maybe even Mitchell Rails and Magic Johnson, but we're going to hear the new owner for the first time in a press conference setting. I think that'll happen tomorrow. So if I were given the responsibility as kind of a PR person to write up some introductory remarks for Josh Harris, this is what I would say. And by the way, I would start with by saying, keep it short, okay, brevity for this. You'd have to really prep them on the Q&A. But I would also suggest going into it, do not mention the Snyders and do not mention commanders. I'm serious about that. You'll see how I got around in the remarks that I would suggest saying commanders.

But this is how it would go. Josh Harris would step to the podium and he would say, It's an honor and a privilege to be here today as the newest NFL owner. I want to thank Commissioner Goodell and the other 31 owners for giving us this opportunity. I also want to thank the rest of our ownership group. Without all of you, this wouldn't have happened. To Washington, D.C., to the DMV, and the fans of a football franchise that has played in this city since 1937, we pledged to do everything in our power to earn your support. You'll never be taken for granted.

This is your team, too. For those of you that have lost faith, I'm not asking you today to give it back blindly. I'll just ask that you give us a chance to prove to you that we can put a competitive product on the field and one that you can be proud of off of it. I don't have a lot of answers. I don't have a lot of details to share with you today

because we just got here. The process of purchasing the team has been many months in the making and it's been our focus. I will promise a few things, though. We're going to be a group that makes decisions based on, will it help us win? Turning this once-proud franchise into a winning organization again is the goal. I'll add that there are things that are important to our fans,

and we know what many of those things are. Many in our ownership group are from here. They're lifelong fans of the team. We are sensitive to the issues that are important to many of you. Every issue that is important to our fans will be taken seriously. Every issue. We can't wait to get to Ashburn to meet the rest of our team. We'll get to work right away.

Be patient with us. We've got a lot to learn. We've got a lot to figure out. This season is just around the corner. We can't wait for the opener against the Cardinals on September 10th. Hope to see you out there. Thanks so much for this opportunity. That would be it.

short, sweet, move on to Mitch Rails, Magic Johnson, coach them up. That's what Josh Harris should say. There's probably going to be a Q&A, but he's got to be prepped for that for sure. Up next, my part two with my good friend Andy Pollan from yesterday. You'll hear that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.com or MyBooky.orgie.org. code Kevin DC, and you can secure a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000.

You have to use my promo code, Kevin DC. MyBooky.com, mybooky.orgie.ag. They've got all of the NFL prop bets that you'd want at this point, all of the week one and week two lines. You can bet NFL week two right now if you want. The season prop bets on the over-under-wind totals, Washington at six and a half. Is there a win total for the upcoming season? MyBooky.com, mybooky.ag, promo code, Kevin, D.C. So this morning, and I took calls on this,

the moments in which Dan Snyder did something, and you were like, okay, we got to give him some credit for that one. Number one is, like, easy. There's a moment more than any other that Dan Snyder gets credit for, and you know what it is, and I know what it is. is. Yep. It's Gibbs, of course.

It's Gibbs return. The King comes back and Dan Snyder pulled it off. God, Andy, you know, those were the first days of me working at the radio station. Yeah, yeah. Those were the first days. I somehow got a gig doing weekend updates. CJ and Todd gave me a chance to do weekend up. I'd never done updates before.

And I just listened to, I think, Lynn the day before and came in that day. And Bram was doing the Kentucky Derby, by the way. That was the first day. But actually, you know what? That was the year before. What am I talking about? That would have been the year before. Yeah, because Kentucky Derby was the year before.

Yeah, yeah, 2003 was the first year at the station. But, God, I remember how fired up all of us were. I remember that press conference in Bugues and. And, you know, all, he had the whole gang back together. And it was like, here we go. We, I don't think we had any doubt that Gibbs would come back and succeed and save us from these first five years of the Snyder reign. No, as a matter of fact, you know, he, good old George Michael, got me rest in peace. The night before the announcement came, there was what they called the Bulldog edition of the Washington Post, which would come out of like 10.

o'clock at night. And he held it up on his sports cast and he said, this is not happening. I have talked to Joe Gibbs. He is not coming back. Oh, really? And it was announced the next day. And George flew out to his auto place and the Carolinas and did an interview with him and the rest of his history. But, you know, we did not, was for sure. I mean, when they, when Steve Spurrier quit from the golf course, there were a lot of names thrown around, including Dion, who had not yet retired as a player. Remember, Dion had sat out and sat a couple of years, and he was talking about coaching.

That name came up. Ray Road seemed to be the choice at that time. Right. Exactly. And then, so this is announced, and then they start to have the news conference. Now, the news conference, that was something in itself, in that hundreds of people lined the long driveway in Ashburn just to watch his limousine pull up. and he was doing, he not only did the news conference, but he did the one-on-one, including George, and he said something like, hey, you know, this is uncharted territory. We may fail here.

And I'm thinking, oh, Joe, stop, come on, you know. And, you know, and then the first year, it didn't go well. And in fact, it started well against Tampa with Clinton Portis' first carry. won the first game, but then it became clear he was trying to run a 1980s offense in 2004. But I remember also from training camp because we were working with Joe Jacoby at the time, and Jake came in the studio, he goes, I'm watching this. He's doing the same stuff that we did. And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, well, that was really good back then. I hope it still works.

And it took him a year to realize that it wouldn't. In fact, we did the radio show with him the first year. It all last a year. He didn't like our questions, but we would ask him about certain things like the shotgun. And, you know, because 31 teams in the league were running shotgun. And he said, no, you go on the shotgun. He says, I'll put you in the shotgun. Yeah.

And then the next year, the running shotgun. So it took him a year to get his feet wet again to realize how the league was working at that time. Yeah. I don't remember all of the details leading up to it. I remember waking up that morning and, you know, we had the Internet in 2004. We had had it for almost 10 years at that point. And I remember reading it, I think, on like ESPN.com. Do you remember who broke the story?

I think it was Jay Glazer, if I'm not mistaken. I think it was him. So that's number one. Number two for me, and this is where, I mean, the list is pretty short here. So you've got to reach a little bit. I think that that awful week in 2007 when Sean Taylor passed away, the organization really handled everything that it's, you know, it's hard to handle that stuff. And you can't really be wrong in handling that stuff. but I think everything that the organization did came off as incredibly sympathetic in first class.

And I do remember people talking about Snyder, including us, talking about, you know, this team's done a lot here to make this, you know, this awful tragedy. Yeah, anyway, that was my number two. The whole thing was he had a news conference sitting next to Joe Gibbs. And of all the times you wanted to hear from Snyder, this is the one time that he shouldn't have spoken because he just opened up with some unprepared, like, oh, we're just so sad, so sad, so sad. And then Gibbs took over and was incredibly eloquent, you know, as he always was in these kind of things and said things about Sean Taylor and his life and the person he was, et cetera, et cetera.

They flew the whole team down there. Remember this, too. They played a game the following week against Buffalo. And he had, this was Gibbs where, you know, people were starting to wonder about Gibbs at that point because he called the back-to-back timeouts at the end of the game. Remember that? Oh, yeah, of course. A long field goal into a very makeable one, and they lost.

The following day, they got on a plane, the whole team, and they flew down to Miami for the funeral. they had a Thursday game at home that week against Chicago. So they had to turn around in just a couple of days, and then Jason Campbell hurts his knee. Todd Collins comes in. They managed to beat Chicago, win their last, what, four games, and they got into the playoffs. So that was pretty remarkable, but you're right.

They did overall handle that very well. I think that one of the most, I think for me, and we were apart then because that was the first year, second year of Red Zebra. And so I was doing the show with Rigo and Gary and Bram was at the station. And Bram and I were hosting pregame and I were doing postgame during those years. And anyway, long story short, I do think that that's one of the most memorable weeks for me in this business was, because I remember Castleberry, we remember we went to bed the night before thinking that Sean Taylor was on the up and

up because the report. Because of the irresponsible comment from Vinnie Serrato. Yeah. Vinny. That was part of the reason. Vinny had some encouraging comments about his condition improving. And at 4.30 in the morning, my phone rang at home, and it was Castleberry saying, you got to get into the station. He died.

And the next several days were all surreal. But that Buffalo game, that was the most incredible and surreal stadium environment, I can ever remember. The moment of silence was unbelievable before the game. And then, you know, the end of that game with Gibbs calling the back-to-back timeouts was just so awful. And then somehow, you know, Gibbs figured it out, always did at the end of the year. You know, they win four in a row. They go into the postseason.

And they had Seattle in a bit of trouble there in the fourth quarter before they got blown out, you know, at the end. But anyway, so I have one other thing on my. Snyder Good Moment list. What have I missed, if anything? Can you come up with anything? Well, I mean, you know, he did, the stadium that was thrown up in an hour and a half by Jack Keg Cook did need some improvements. And he did put, I think it was reported, $100 million into fixing it up. So he did some of that. And there was a little bit of a better feeling about that. Gosh, what else?

I mean, there's just so most of it involves things like, you know, suing the grandmother for the club seats. And just, you know, just one vicious, wicked act after another. It's hard. It's hard to think of good. There probably were a few good things along the way, and I'm sure, you know, you would hear, you know, you hear coaches talk about how charitable he was

and how he helped people out and so forth. And people who have money should do that. But, you know, I mean, by and large, his legacy is of one of a dastardly man who's chased out of town, really. I mean, that's really what happened here. Yeah, the other thing that I had on my top three and really the only three is for, look, for better or worse, and it depends on your perspective. But for the people that thought it was for the better,

he hung in there with that name and fought off the activists and those that wanted that name sacked. And he had the data on his side. It was not a hard fight, but it was an exhausting fight. And I certainly would have never said what he said to USA today. when he said never, never, never, you can put it in caps. That was his, that was just, that was typical impulse and lack of self-awareness. But, you know, I think owners that felt differently in their overall kind of outlook on things

may have succumbed to, you know, what was very much, you know, a small percentage, but a loud percentage of people that wanted the name changed. But eventually, as we've already talked about, he got chased out of that. Well, I mean, I think what you've laid out there is an incredibly polarizing opinion. There are many people on your side and just as many on the other side. And I don't think there's really a middle on any of that, you know? I don't. Oh, I don't.

None of the data would suggest that it's split. I mean, the last real polling we had was 90s. percent of Native Americans saying that they did not consider it to be derogatory or pejorative and they didn't think that it was insensitive and didn't want it changed. I think the large majority of people, and the only people that matter in this conversation are Native Americans, they have never, in large majority, had an issue with the name. But there are those that have had it. And I saw a film that was produced by Evita Kempner and Kevin Blackistow, where it lays it out that for them, at least the ones that appeared in this film, it's,

same as the N-word. Yeah, except that you've still got a half-dozen to a dozen Native American high schools with the supposed N-word is their team's nickname. I just, why are we doing this? You and I shouldn't be doing this. Since then, today to do this. You know how I feel. You know how I feel.

To me, the worst part of the entire debate is comparing it to the N-word, because it's just not true. There may be people that think it's true, but it's such a tiny, tiny percentage of those people that, you know, look, you bring up any kind of controversial topic, you're always going to find 10% of people that have a problem with it. And in many cases, they're motivated to feel that way. But anyway, whatever, we move on to Josh Harris.

So we never thought we'd, like, at any point before last November when they announced their retaining Bank of America, did you ever think we would actually see this day? No, no. I mean, the owners don't give up their teams. And we've had bad owners in the past, but they passed away, like Earsay and Bidwell and people like that. And here's a guy in his 50s who's going to be around for a while. So, yeah, I did not think it would happen.

and now that it has, you have people who are pretty much in our wheelhouse, right? I mean, these are guys in their 50s, in the case of Mitch Rails, who I know a little bit is in his 60s. And their frame of reference for the great times is the same as ours. They remember the 80s and even the 70s where George Allen took the team to a Super Bowl, and that's something that they have to recreate. And at least my efforts to try to get that through to Jason Wright have not worked. So if I had the opportunity to talk to either one of them, I would say, you know, let's appeal to the people who are in our age group, you know, probably between 50 and 70, and say, you remember the days of going to games, you remember what it was like if you won't with your dad or you want with your friends or however it worked. And that's the kind of atmosphere we want to recreate there.

And these marketing efforts that I've seen, even with Brian Lafamina, oh, let's try and get the millennials to go. You're not going to do it. They have no good memories of the good times. You've got to appeal to the people like you and I who have some disposable income and kids, in my case, a granddaughter. And those are the people, I think, that you have to reach to try and get them to bring up the generation that was missed, like my son and your sons, of kids who could. have become fans but didn't because the team was so bad. Yeah, I don't know if I agree with you on that. I don't know what the answer is.

I would bet that in today's day and age, their marketing people will say, there's a whole group of people that used to be super passionate that aren't anymore and that's going to be a harder sell than attracting a younger person who is, for all intents and purposes, an independent voter. They haven't made up their mind. And will have and provide much greater lifetime value to us.

Because, you know, the guy that's 65 or 70 that's lost interest, there's not a lot of lifetime value left, even though he's got more disposable income than the 25-year-old. Okay, but, yeah. Okay. Your sons are all out of college. They're grown. And I guess one of them lives in California, but the other two are relatively nearby.

One in New York, one in L.A. and one here, yeah. Okay. And you've got one in New York and one here. Yeah, and my daughter and my son-in-law, actually, who's 35, is sort of a fan. He's sort of, he's part of that lost generation that kind of, you know, wandered in and, you know, he buys gear and watches games and things like that. So if you are appealing to me, you'd say, Andy, here's a four-season ticket package that's going to be very attractive for you. And, you know, you could bring your family and your granddaughter, as she gets older, you know, she's going to say.

Those are the people I'd be marketing to. I would not be marketing to people who are my son's age who never had any interest. I want people who at least can look at Burgundy and gold and say, oh, yeah, those were some great days. That's the way I would feel about it. Scarlet and White or whatever they are. Whatever they are now, yeah. But that, that, that, you know, my son can't, my son was in a bassinet when they went to the Super Bowl the last time.

So he has no, no real feeling for success with this team. And he couldn't. I'm sure your son's the same thing, right? Yeah, I mean, none of them care anywhere approaching. Like, I've got three boys, I would say one of them doesn't care at all. The other two, you know, one of them's lukewarm. I think he would be back, you know. I think he'd be into it.

And the other one really would like to see him be good again and, you know, live up to and have the experience that we had. I just don't think that that'll be the marketing strategy going after, you know, an older demographic. But it just seems like they've ignored us. And the history of the team seems to have been forgotten and not, because the people don't know it. These guys, I think, know it. And another thing about Snyder, that was always, to me, oversold that he was this lifelong guy hard thing. You and I've talked about this forever. I agree with you 100% on this.

Go ahead. So I don't think he had a real feel for it. No. So I think these guys do, though. Yeah. Dan, I think Dan's father was a big fan. I think Dan, because his father was a big fan, was, you know, certainly paid attention. But Dan's not the kind of fan that you.

were, that I was, that a lot of the people that are listening to this right now were. He can't go back and talk about games or players other than Sunny, you know? Yeah, I'm telling you that in one of the early interviews that we did with him, I asked him what players he liked to watch. No, he said, no, Sonny and Sam. Yeah. Sam retired when I think he was one or two. Right, right.

And Sonny retired when he was like five. That's right. Come on. That's right. He was not a real hard. core fan. It's just not. There were, there were, I think I remember that interview and I, there were other times when he was asked things where I was like, he doesn't know anything about this team. No, no. So, uh, Josh Harris comes to you on Friday after he gets the team and he says,

give me, give me a couple of things you think that, uh, I should be working on right away. Well, I mean, one is to have a news conference, and now, you know, things are different now for introducing yourself to the fan base. I mean, it used to be that you would do sit down interviews with the three sports anchors or the four in town. Who are they now? So, you know, what do you do? Or you would sit down with one of the top columnists. Well, Barry's Ruluga still has that kind of cloud, I guess. You would do something like that.

But you've got to get the fan base to know you a little bit and know what you're all about, right? Don't you think that's important? Yeah, I just think that it almost doesn't matter because this guy will have the longest honeymoon, longest grace period that any new sports team owners had in recent memory. But what's your reason? But I don't want him to blow the press conference. No. No.

Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I want you to get the message across, you know, buy in now. We're building. And when we're good, you're going to. want to be a part of this. And, you know, and the old days are gone. And we're going to be different than we were. And we'll be, everybody uses the word transparent. But, you know, just let people know that whatever went on here for 24 years isn't going to happen again. Those days are long gone. I asked Zabe the other day, should he mention the Snyders at all?

Zab said, absolutely not. I agree with him. I, I, I, can't even think of a way he could say even in a very obligatory way, anything about Dan that people wouldn't roll their eyes at. I think it's a total focus on what's next and no recognition for what has just occurred over the last 24 years. Yeah, and maybe, now, I don't know how much referencing he would do with the Sixers and the Devils. I mean, they really haven't won anything. So, you know, I don't know how much that's going to help them. Well, I mean, the devils are considered one of the better teams in the NHL right now. And, you know, I got into it with, well, I got into it. I had Howard Eskin on the show, the radio show the other day.

And he can't stand, you know, Josh Harris. He said he called him a carpetbagger, said that he's only interested in making money and that the teams aren't very good. I go, the 76ers after the process ended up with Joel Embed, and they've won four. 50 plus games four times in the last six seasons and been to the playoff six straight years. Like Washington, our NBA franchise, they haven't won 50 or more games in 44 years. Yeah, how it doesn't understand the landscape. I mean, the Eagles are not that far removed from winning a Super Bowl and playing at a Super Bowl. So it's a different look here. So there are a couple things that I would say today.

them just, you know, if I had a minute or two. Number one is, you know, treat people well and be humble because we just lived through mean-spirited, dumb, and arrogant for 25 years. And the last part of that, the arrogant part, is a controllable part, and so was the first part. But, you know, this is, there are lovable losers in sports, and this was a hateable loser because of the way they behaved. Behavior actually matters. One of the reasons we love the team because we love the team, and they won from the time George Allen arrived until Gibbs left in 93, but they were also a first class group always. Everything about the organization reeked of, you know, high-end, you know, classy and humble, you know, the constant underpromising and over-delivering. And I would mention that.

We've been over-promised and delivered nothing for 25 years. Don't promise us anything. You don't need to. You're in a grace period. You're in a honeymoon period. And then hire the best possible football person. Let them run the football operation and make all the football decisions. We haven't had that.

It was Vinny and Dan. And then it was Bruce and a couple of coaches. We've actually never had a true football decision-making GM. hire the best of the best, give them what they want and get the hell out of their way. And then my last piece of advice, and not to bring up this issue again, because we just talked about it, but they absolutely should take seriously the brand, the name, and the brand. Now, if they ultimately decide because it makes better sense economically or whatever the reasons are, to stick with commanders in the current uniforms, fine, and explain that to,

everybody. But if they come in and say, that's not even on our radar. We're not going to address that at all. We're sticking with commanders. We're fine with it. That's a misreading of the room. The majority of this fan base wants to hear that they're going to explore this name and brand situation and, you know, take your time on it. We don't need an answer today. But at the very least they have to take that conversation seriously rather than blowing it off, which a smaller portion of the fan base would like it just to be blown off. You can do multiple things at once. You can focus on building a winning football team, which should be the top priority, no doubt. You can focus on building a culture of, you know, kinder, smarter, and more humble people

in your organization. And you can also look into. this name, which, by the way, has no value at all. There's no equity built up at all. You're not getting rid of something with any kind of value. I agree. So anyway. No, I agree with all that. And just to highlight one of your humble points, this is another early sign. I remember Doc Walker particularly upset about this. After they won that division in his first year in 99, they hung division champion banners across the facility. And Doc said, you boys want to check the trophy case over there? We got three Lombardy.

That's the standard, not that division titles. Amazing. I mean, this guy came 24 years ago. I hate giving him credit for that first playoff win in 99. For me, he had one playoff win as an owner. One, one. And it came 17 years ago. I mean Chris Sim as the quarterback.

Chris Sim for Tampa. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What else? No, I think we covered a lot of ground there. You know, this is a, this would probably be one that we'll talk about for four years to come. But boy, this was a hell of an experience.

And, you know, the ironic thing about Snyder becoming the owner is he came in with two guys named Milstein. and the other owners didn't want anything to do with Milstein. And I believe it was Wellington Mara, who went to Dan Snyder and said, we like you, get yourself some investors, we'll take you. Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. Wellington Marr was a fine man, but that was not his funnish moment. Well, and remember Wellington Mara, well, John Mara stuck it to this franchise

with that salary cap penalty because John couldn't stand Dan. Well, none of them could stand Dan. But, you know, Shapiro, Len told me the other day, he said, ultimately, Milstein was a no-go for the owners because they considered him to be overly litigious. Right. And Dan to be, you know, a guy that they could work with. I read some of the quotes from back then in the opening of the show, yeah. Yeah, they saw him as a young, I mean, didn't you think when you heard 34 years old this guy was a dynamo? Didn't you assume that?

Andy, I was, look, I was not working in broadcasting, as you know. I was involved in, you know, at that time it was the second or third of the tech startups that I was involved in. And, you know, I was basically his age. And I was excited about it. I'm like, yeah, this is like the world's changing. Technology has become a big part of it. And so I was all in on, you know, somebody 34 years old. I do remember, though, what we just talked about a little while ago,

I remember realizing very quickly, this guy's really not a fan. Like I could tell. Like anybody that was a real hardcore fan, a couple of interviews in, like you said, he's naming Sonny and Sam as his favorite players of all time. No, that was fake. And then, you know, there were obviously in the first year indications. But again, I didn't think we were doomed. I certainly didn't think we were doomed when Gibbs came back.

How about this? A person we both know very well, who I think has incredible powers to sniff out bony's. Tony Kornheiser. Yeah. Tony was friends with him in the early years. I remember. So was Wilbon. So was Wilbon.

And Tony talked about being invited to a rolling show. Stone's concert with Snyder, and they had the pregame meal with them. And, you know, I mean, Tony is not, as you know, as you know, he's not one of those guys. He's not a, he's not a jock-sniffing type of person. And he somehow found a friendship with him. I'm not sure what the common ground was, but they were actual friends for the first three years. Well, again, that gets back to Snyder was a big star effort. And so if you were a big star, You know, he was in awe. And so, you know, you were just like, wow, you know, this guy seems okay.

He really likes me a lot and wants to do a lot of things for me. Yeah. Yeah. But Tony's the kind of guy who would say to you, oh, yeah, he wants to chum up to me. I'm not buying that crap. And he did. Yeah, but he also was an owner of an NFL team and it just paid $800 million for it. No, but you're right.

I agree. All right. Good talk. Good talk. All right, I'll talk to you soon. Are you going to celebrate at all? Are you going to do anything to celebrate? I don't know. You know, Dave at one point was talking about doing this podcast and having people come down. But like a lot of Zayb plans, it's not going to get off the ground. I was on his pod last night. Yeah. And, yeah. As we've said about our good friend Steve Zabin and your longtime partner, Steve Zabin. I don't think there's a better ideas guy than Zabe. It's just the follow-through tends to not always work out. Although, when he's really passionate about something, he does follow through. I mean, you know, that golf tournament for years. Yeah. He ran the Potomac Cup for 10 years. It was a great event. Great event. Great event. Right.

He had that ability. No question. Yeah. All right. See you. Thanks for doing this. Take care. All right. All right. That is it for the show today, back tomorrow. We'll probably be the biggest, you know, underdog in the history of sports. They know how important this is going to be. We know how important this is going to be. Both three and two. We've got a huge game next week for us. We're going to play the best football of our life. You know, I say each week, I guess that's the paranoia of the coach.

I say each week, the next game is bigger than any game we've ever played. This is going to be a first-class, big-time football game. I'm counting on our fans. You've got to help us. I'm thrilled that we're coming back home in front of our. our crowd. Our fans is the one thing I can count on. I want to get back in front of our fans. I want to start off by saying a big thanks to all of our fans out there. Yesterday I walked in the stadium and I felt like the electricity in there. I felt like my heart was right out here beating. Our fans here are kind of what makes us tick. It's the greatest sports franchise in the world

and the greatest fans in the world. Our fans, the greatest sports fans in the world and the greatest sports franchise. Everybody here has heard me say it, but this is the greatest sports franchise with the greatest fans in the world. I appreciate everybody praying for us and pulling for us and everybody in that stadium in the middle of night, then everybody else, just period out there watching. We appreciate you.