The Kevin Sheehan Show - A Nice Woodbridge

Episode Date: May 24, 2022

Kevin today on Day 1 of OTAs, the Mark Maske info on Snyder from Atlanta, the Woodbridge land option, and Terry McLaurin's contract possibilities with J.I. Halsell.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. On the show today, OTA Day number one. Aren't you excited? Also, Mark Maskey's down at the owner's meetings in Atlanta and has talked to a few owners about Dan Snyder.

I will read to you what Mark has written and have a few thoughts on that. Also, there is the Woodbridge land option that the team has for a possible stadium, you know, over the hills and through the woods down I-95, we go. I'll weigh in on that just a little bit. And I've got on the show today, J.I. Hallsell, good friend, current NFL agent, former cap analyst for the Redskins. We'll talk to J.I. about the Terry McClorn contract situation and some contract situations around the league that have gotten interesting as well.

Now, as far as OTAs, an OTA day number one, organized team activities. They are a voluntary thing. You know, most teams actually don't get complete attendance. We here in D.C., or at least some of us, have spent too much time talking about who shows up and who doesn't. Guilty has charged. But, you know, in our defense, for those that do occasionally talk about things like OTA attendance and express interest or concern over, you know, the minutia like OTAs. In our defense, we are talking about a team that hasn't won much over the years. We're going on basically the third decade of being an NFL bottom feeder. So to be fair,

you know, those that criticize those of us that talk about these kinds of things, especially people, by the way, associated with the team, they should be, thrilled that we are discussing anything about the team with that kind of level of passion and caring. In fact, they should send us handwritten thank you notes. Thank you for discussing OTA attendance. It doesn't mean much, but it shows that you actually care. I don't really care that much, but I do think some of it is interesting, and we will get to that in a moment. Look, this is the low season of the NFL calendar. Most NFL fans don't give a shit about OTAs in mini camps.

This is the time of the year for the fringes, not the masses. But with that understood, let me go through some of the things that perhaps the fringe might be interested in as it relates to the Washington commencement. commanders first OTA day as the Washington commanders. Terry McCluren wasn't there. It would appear he's not going to be there until his contract extension is done. We knew he wasn't going to take the field until his contract extension was done. I would say that the deadline to be concerned would be training camp for Terry. You know, you want someone like Terry McClorn with a new quarterback to be there for the beginning of training camp. If it wasn't a new quarterback,

he's mature, he knows the playbook, he's a pro, he'll be in shape, so you would probably say, just be there and have this thing wrapped up a week before the season begins. But I think with Carson Wentz being brand new, it would be nice to see Terry have this deal done and be ready to go for training camp. Now, as far as the contract negotiations, and we'll talk to J.I. Hullsell about this in more detail in a little bit, Ron Rivera did say, and he was asked about Terry McLaren, quote, we've had communications with them, them meaning Terry McLaren and his agent, we've been working with them, it's just a matter of time, closed quote. Other nuggets from today's OTA Day, number one, Montez Sweat wasn't there, but they

expect him tomorrow. Cam Sims wasn't there. He's apparently having a baby. So to congrats, congratulations to Cam and Cam's wife and or significant other. And then lastly, Chase Young wasn't at OTA Day number one. Of course, Ron Rivera was asked about that. Chase, he said, quote, for the most part, is working with his rehab. He's met with doctors. They formulated a plan. He's completing that right now. we will have him here eventually, and I believe the next couple of weeks, he'll be here. There was a follow-up question saying, do you expect him for the voluntary stuff or just the mandatory things like minicamp? And Rivera said, quote, I think he'll come for some of the voluntary stuff, but he has a plan that they've been working on.

We've been in communications with them. he's seen the doctor, closed quote. So the obvious question for those on the fringe that nerd out over OTA days, is this a big deal or not that Chase Young isn't there for OTA day number one? Well, I would say this. The coaches a few weeks back, Rivera and Del Rio, set some expectation levels of full attendance for off-season stuff. Rivera's answer a few weeks back implied, that he expected Chase Young to be there this year for all of it.

If you don't want blowback on OTA attendance, then don't create any expectations on OTA or off-season work attendance. Just say, I hope everybody attends, period, and leave it at that. Chase Young is rehabbing out in Colorado. I believe that that isn't exactly what the team would have preferred, but at the same time, I've been told that they are very confident with how his rehab is going. I think they've gotten to a point with Chase Young that they understand they have a very talented player and that he has his own ideas on how to get himself ready for a season,

and even if his ideas don't exactly align, with their ideas. Right now, the only thing that matters is his performance and him being 100% healthy and game ready for Jacksonville on September 11th. So they'll judge him on performance. And you know what? That's where we should all be on this. You know, the only people who really know if absences from OTA days impact performance on the field when the season begins are coaches and maybe other players. You know, and Cooley has said many times, these days are insignificant.

The only people who know for sure if absences from OTA days are impactful to things like, you know, team camaraderie or leadership or any of those other things, the coaches and perhaps some of the players know whether or not that's truly impactful. You know, no more on Chase Young today.

Other than to say, Logan Thomas, who is also coming off a serious injury, was there today, even though he didn't participate. Some good news? Curtis Samuel was out there today and apparently looked good. They need that injury to be fully healed and for him to be ready to go for the 2022 season. I wanted to read just a few Ron Rivera quotes on a couple of things. First of all, he weighed in on the running back situation, and I thought this was an interesting. answer, and I think really sums up the exact reason they drafted Brian Robinson, Jr. in the third round. He's going to play. Rivera said on the running backs, quote, I think for the most part, it's going to be by committee. Some of the things that we did in Carolina were trying to emulate. You know, we had a two-back system that was good. We had DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart, and then we had Fossey Whitaker

as change of pace, third down type of guy. Well, you look at what we have right now, you can say we have the same thing. So just feel that, you know, it's one of those things that you're going to go with. Who's hot, who's rolling, who's doing good things, and then you're going to have to spell that guy. I mean, in this league today, you know, you just can't have one primary back. You've got to have a plethora of them. And we just feel it's a really good room right now. Closed quote. So that sums it up, really, on the running back front.

They want to have Antonio Gibson and Brian Robinson, Jr. be the first and second down backs. And they'll go with the better guy and the hot guy, and they'll spell him with the other guy. and then J.D. McKissick's, their third down back. Personally, I liked when J.D. McKissick at times was in there as the first down back. Remember Chris Thompson occasionally would take some first down, second down carries. I always liked that as well.

I thought that was a change of pace on your first and second down back. That was nice. But they're going to go with Gibson and Robinson Jr., which obviously, you know, the drafting of Robinson Jr. means that they really weren't confident that Jared Patterson could be that guy. So that's what you're going to have. I think he summed it up very well in terms of what they are planning to do on that end. There was something else that he talked about that I wanted to share with everybody. And it deals with these joint practices. Washington is not going to have any joint practices this year. But there were reports from like Michael Phillips, Richmond Times Dispatch,

that Washington was considering joint practices with Buffalo at one point, and that Ron actually was seriously considering him because he thought they would be beneficial. He was asked about that today, and this is what he said. Specifically, the question was, will there be any joint practices with another team during training camp, and Rivera said, no, we're going to focus on us and really just try to work and continue to develop. He said, we really like who we are. It's a young team, a lot of guys that have played a lot of football for us already and added some good young players, so we just feel this is about focusing on who we are, closed quote. I don't care that he answered it that way, to be honest with you, but the truth is, I believe, and I think Michael Phillips

has reported on this, that Buffalo was a joint practice possibility until the J.D. McKissick saga when he had committed to Buffalo and then backed out and signed with Washington, and that blew up any possibility of joint practices. I think Rivera would have preferred having joint practices with three preseason games now, second year of three preseason games, but it didn't happen with the team that maybe they were planning on having it, happen with. Lastly, there was this question on whether or not the coach thinks it's a problem signing guys late in the offseason program because then they've got a lot of work to do to catch up in training camp. And he said something in his answer that references the whole

secondary situation that Jack Del Rio referenced in recent weeks. He said, quote, not necessarily worrying about a specific veteran. Last year, there was a group of veterans. that missed for various reasons, meaning some of the offseason stuff, Ben Standing reported, you know, it wasn't necessarily the OTA days. It was the days before that, what they call phase two. And Rivera said that was a sore point. I don't know if you saw it or heard it today, but you could hear this secondary with their communication. That's something that we really didn't get rolling until the middle of the season last year. Now you hear it from the beginning, which is a very positive sign as far as I'm concerned, closed questions.

quote. They're really hanging on the, you know, past defense sucked because the veteran players missed some of the phase two activity last year. I guess they're going to ride that all the way up until the beginning of the season. But let's remember that because they're very positive now on the secondary being together for all of the offseason stuff. So it should perform pretty well when we get to the regular season. All right, up next, Mark Maskey's down at the league meetings, and I'll weigh in on the stadium story from yesterday, or the land option story to be more accurate from yesterday. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Mark Maskey from The Washington Post is out with a story this afternoon titled Some NFL Owners Support Tough Suspension wary of forcing out Snyder. So we had the Jarrett Bell story from over the weekend at USA Today with the money quote, which is we are counting votes,

implying that the owners were actually counting up whether or not they had 24 votes to Al Snyder. If you missed yesterday's show, my takeaway was, I don't think they've got 24 votes to Al Snyder. I just don't think that's the possibility in getting rid of Snyder. I think the best bet is that Snyder decides to voluntarily sell, although I saw. although I certainly wouldn't wager on that. Mark Maskey down at league meetings in Atlanta had this story with some owner quotes. First of all, I'll read to you from the beginning of the story. Several NFL team owners said they would support a significant league suspension

of Washington commanders owner Daniel Snyder if allegations of sexual harassment and financial impropriety against him and the team are substantiated. But despite growing displeasure with a string of controversies that began nearly two years ago, the owners said no meaningful steps have been taken toward making a push to remove Snyder from ownership of his franchise. This from one owner in Maskey's column, quote, there's certainly concern. The owner speaking on the condition of anonymity said there's anger, but there's quite a difference between wishing he was gone and taking steps to force him out, closed quote.

Look, they wish he was gone. But again, as this owner said, quite a difference between wishing he was gone and taking steps to force him out. That owner and others Maskey writes said they would support the league taking significant disciplinary action against Snyder if the ongoing investigation being conducted by attorney Mary Joe White corroborates allegations. You know, the allegations of the Tiffany Johnston sexual harassment and the financial improprieties. One owner said, quote, it all depends on the report. We'll have to see. I would think a tough suspension could be in order, closed quote.

Two other owners said they were not aware of any efforts to gauge support for attempting. to force Snyder to sell his franchise. Such a move would require 24 votes among 32 teams. This is the quote, quote, if that's happening, no one has asked for my vote, closed quote. Another said, quote, I don't think that's accurate, closed quote. Bottom line from Maskey's story is that, you know, they're not voting him out. They're not going to get to that point.

What they would like to see for all of this is much tougher discipline. an actual suspension of Snyder. This is what should have happened last summer. This $10 million fine in this whatever, you know, elevating Tanya to day-to-day CEO and Dan was going to focus on the stadium was really a missed opportunity by the league and the team. Now, unfortunately, the team is owned by Dan Snyder, so he was never going to accept any punishment.

And this $10 million fine, as we've talked about many times, he had his lawyers calling people to say he wasn't fine, the team was, and that he wasn't suspended, even though it would have been beneficial for the league and for him for people to believe that the league took the Beth Wilkinson investigation and report, even if it was presented orally, very seriously and punished him harshly. it would have all, for the most part, it probably would have gone away to a certain extent. Now, you know, the emails and the Gruden stuff would have brought it back, you know, last October. But the owners were disappointed in the Jared Bell story with the punishment that was handed down initially. And they seemed to be very, you know, intent on Snyder paying the price a little bit more severely with a more severe punishment now. Anyway, it certainly in Masky's story would appear as if there's not going to be a vote. They haven't been made aware of any vote. And this is, I think, the reasonable conclusion to come to, that just nothing's going to happen on the ousting of Dan Snyder.

But these other owners would prefer because they don't like him and he's embarrassed them. and they've got Snyder fatigue, and they'd love to see him gone, but they know they can't go down that path. They can't go down that path of trying to force him out. In fact, there's a paragraph in here in Maskey's column. Asked whether owners could reach the point of attempting to Al Snyder from ownership if Mary Joe White's report substantiates the allegations against him. One owner said, I don't know.

But Maski wrote, while not ruling out the possibility, multiple owners cited the legal complications of such an attempt, expressing the belief that Snyder would go to great lengths to fight any such effort. So anyway, I think right now, as it stands, there's a possibility he could be punished, maybe suspended for a year, whatever that means for an owner. But it's highly, highly unlikely that anything married. Joe White produces is going to lead to a vote to oust him and then for them to have three quarters of the owners vote to force him out. Lastly, before we get to J.I. Hallsell to talk about Terry McClaren's contract negotiation and more. I wanted to just weigh in briefly, very briefly on the stadium story from yesterday, which started off as a story where the team, had purchased land in Dumfries, but the actual story was the team has an option to purchase land

in Woodbridge. So the most interesting thing about this story to me is that I think for the first time we actually saw something in print about what the capacity of the new stadium would be, 60,000. For many years, I've advocated a much smaller stadium with fewer printings. seats to create kind of a sense of exclusivity. Now, $60,000 would be an incredible crowd for 2022 at FedEx, obviously. When I first started to talk about this, it was when they were still drawing, you know, $75,000, but they weren't filling it up to capacity. And they were having, you know, many of the opponents fans invade the park. And that was the big issue of the time. And I'm like, it's got to be a smaller stadium. It's got to be M&T Bank sized or smaller.

And there has to be this feeling of like it's special to have a ticket. Now, nobody feels that way anymore. The times have changed. But I think 60,000 or something smaller is the right number for this kind of franchise. You know, they're not the Cowboys. They don't have a massive, you know, loyal fan base like Denver or Green Bay. You know, Denver has sucked for years, but they've got a very rabid, still very loyal fan base. Obviously, Washington's isn't that anymore. They would love for it to be that way again,

which leads me to the whole idea of Prince William County. I mean, we laughed at it previously, you know, Dumfries or Woodbridge and what a mistake that would be, but that's really coming from people like me. You know, Marylanders who are older, 40s and 50s, who don't go to games anymore, and whose passion for the team has waned, and really the whole stadium issue is not as exciting to discuss. It's not even that interesting to discuss. I think it's much more of kind of a small fraction of people. It was very popular yesterday among all of the insiders and reporters and people on Twitter in particular. And I'm not knocking it.

I just think that a significant percentage of people that used to be hard, hardcore fans, they're like 2027 or 2028, I don't even know if I'm going to care at all about the team then. I mean, I got to get through this next wave of just dealing with the fact that they're not the Redskins anymore. They're the commanders and the uniforms look different. And I have no idea how I'm going to feel in 2028. So I honestly believe that this story just doesn't appeal to as many as it used to appeal to for those reasons. I do think that the team got this story out in part because they want to look like they are, you know, earnest about moving forward with a new stadium.

It's probably a way for, you know, them to get Maryland and D.C. to get off their, you know, behinds and come to the table with something more formal. I think DC is the number one preference for the team and the league. I do believe that, but it's also the hardest path to something because it's federally owned land. And DC probably isn't going to go for contributing much to what they want to do. And Prince William County and Virginia may ultimately be the destination. Would they prefer Maryland over Virginia? I don't know because they might prefer Maryland and even the FedEx site building right.

next to it more than Virginia, but will Maryland come to the table with as much as Virginia is going to come to the table with? And I also think there's this part of the franchise, and I feel for those that are kind of intimately involved in the stadium, you know, as far as stadium responsibilities for the team, because they're dealing with consistently, and Tommy has talked about this before, politicians who really can't help them, even if they want to, because their constituents will look at them and say, wait a minute, you're taking my tax dollars to give to that guy, you know, to that organization that for a decade treated women poorly in a hostile workplace. And even if that's not true anymore, and I believe that it's not true anymore to a certain degree. I think Jason Wright has gotten, you know,

you know, rid of a lot of the riffraff and is brought in higher quality people. And it's probably completely different than it used to be, you know, out in Ashburn. But it's still hard to change the perception of what they are and still hard to convince your constituents to pony up for Dan Snyder. That's the challenge they have. I think that what the team more likely than not is learning is that a lot of people that used to be, you know, hardcore fans, especially 40s, 50s, and older, they're kind of lost. They're not going to recapture the majority of those people, especially with the name change,

and as long as Snyder's here. But their best hope is to go for a new fan base. And the, you know, the majority of who will be rooting for this team, say, 10 years from now, may be a bunch of young people that live in Virginia, you know, in these fast-growing Virginia counties like Prince William County. So I don't know what's gone into all of it. It's not that interesting to me as it used to be. It just isn't. And I kind of feel that many of you agree with that sentiment.

Anyway, let's get to J.I. Hallsell. Haven't talked to J.I. in a long time. We'll do so with him. about Terry McClorn and more right after these words from a few of our sponsors. J.I. Hallsell's been a friend for a long time. He worked for the team as a cap analyst many years ago. He's been an NFL agent for a while. And he is from the area. He grew up in the area and is a Gonzaga Purple Eagle. J.I. joins us to talk about Terry McClorn and more at Salary Cap 101 on Twitter.

cut to the chase here on Terry McClure. Do you think he and the team will agree on a contract extension before the season starts? I do. And I think it's because, I mean, he's the type of player that as an organization, you want to reward. You know, it looks good to the players in the locker room when one of your best players who you drafted, who's been, you know, what you want in the locker room gets rewarded by the organization. And if they can't, you know, can't come to, you know, a reasonable number that makes sense for both sides, then that's not going to be good in the long run in terms of managing morale in the locker room. So the long wind way of saying, yes, I do think that they get a deal done. All right. What do you think is

happening right now? Posturing. No, I think that, yeah, you know, as from a player-agent side of this, you don't want to put your client in harm's way, so there's no reason that go out there in OTAs and risk the injury. They know who you are as a player. You know the scheme. So, you know, right now, it's within Terry's right to withhold his services and everything going on right now is voluntary. I know that every contract negotiation timeline doesn't match the others necessarily.

There isn't, you know, a built-in time frame for doing this. Every situation is different. But we've heard, you know, deadlines make deals, and I don't know if that's training camp or the beginning of the regular season. But what do you think is going on right now? From afar, where do you think the team and Terry McClorn are in the process of negotiating a new contract extension if you believe that one's going to happen? And you said that you do.

I don't know if they've talked or not. I would imagine they've had at least, you know, a 30,000 foot macro level conversation on what their expectations are. I don't know how much in depth they've gone beyond that. But I think when you look at the wide receiver market where, you know, you could have some disconnect in any conversations are what are the true values of these deals? Because when you look at the top of the market and, you know, without going into all of the details just yet, you know, the Tyreek Hill and Devonte Adams deal quite, you

frankly have a lot of fluff in them that build up the average per year. So, you know, when you are having a negotiation with a club or the club with the agent, you've got to make sure that you're viewing the numbers the same way. And so that can really derail or at least slow down these conversations. All right. So let's look at it. I mean, we've had the Tarik Hill deal. We've had the DeVante Adams deal. We've had the A.J. Brown deal. We've had, you know, the Stefan Diggs deal. Where do you slot Terry, and I think the easiest thing for everybody to understand is the average annual, and even if there is some fluff in Hill's deal at $30 million a year, Adams is at 28, Hopkins is at 27.25. A.J. Brown just signed a deal for an average annual of $25 million. Diggs is at 24,

and those are the top five, and then there's a drop-off of roughly $3.5 million to DJ Moore. where do you think Terry McClure is going to come in? What do you think his agent is asking for? And where do you think ultimately a deal could get done at? Yeah, so of all those deals that you just listed Hill, Adams, Brown, Diggs, the only one that's really like a true deal in terms of the average per year is Diggs is $24 million per year. When you look at Tyreeks Hill's deal, he's got, you know, exorbitant base salaries later. in the deal that makes the true value of his deal, 25.

Devonte Adams is probably the same thing. His true value is probably about 24. A.J. Brown, same thing. His true values probably in the low 20s based upon the, we're talking about base salaries in excess of like $30 million in the last year or years of these deals. So I feel that to say that Stefan Diggs' deal is actually more reasonable where he's kind of in the high teams, low 20s consistently,

throughout his deal. And again, he's at 24 million per year. Like you said, there's a drop-off then after the Stefan Diggs deal where D.J. Moore is at 20.6 million. So there is that gap, right, where conceivably Terry McCorn could land somewhere in there. Did he land at a true $22 million per year? Could he push Stefan Diggs and be at $24? I don't think $24 million per year. given Terry's productivity, given, again, you want to show to your players that you reward your productive players, you reward your leaders, that $24 million, I think is worthy of that type of player. So if he landed somewhere in that 22 to 24 range, that would not surprise me. From an agent perspective, though, you are leaning on, well, Kyrie Hill, I don't care what the cash flows are. his deal is 30 million per year.

Devante Adams, I don't care what the cash flows are. His is 28 per year. So that's how you build your argument from an agent perspective. But as you play the game of high and low in the negotiations, you give yourself some wiggle room so that maybe you land somewhere in that 24, 25, maybe even 26 range. Do you see that kind of contract being reflective of where he is on kind of the NFL wide receiver pecking order?

Terry McCorren, to the casual NFL fan across the country, is not going to be top of mind when we think of elite receivers. But when you dig into the numbers, you know, clearly he's one of the best receivers in football. So as an agent, you're going to say, I don't care that he doesn't say he doesn't have this name recognition that AJ Brown, Stefan Diggs, all these other guys have. neither is DJ Moore, right? And DJ Moore got 20.6. And I would tell you that Terry's a more productive player. And again, like I said earlier, from an agent perspective, I would tell the club, like, do you really want to show your locker room that, you know, you're not rewarding your leaders with market value deals? So, you know, again, that's his leverage.

His leverage is, you know, look, you know, this is going to look bad in the media. this is going to look bad in the locker room. You know, you should pay me my market value. If you choose to have me play for less than $3 million this year and you choose the franchise tag me next year, that's going to be a bad look. So, you know, that is leverage in this situation. How do you handle it with a client where, you know,

you get into a back and forth with a team and you can't agree on what this. the player's value is the team, you know, doesn't agree with you, the agent on what the player's value is or the structure of the contract. And then you've got that dilemma, which is going into his last year, young player hasn't signed the big deal, still playing on his rookie deal, and kind of the bird in hand, you know, that even if you ended up signing a deal that you guys weren't thrilled with, ultimately, it's generational, you. you know, wealth in the signing of a deal, and you take all the risk out of playing that fourth

and final year on a rookie deal in terms of a potential, you know, devastating injury. How do you deal with that with a player? Yeah, you bring up a great point because, you know, when, you know, young people who aspire to be agents or aspire to work in football ask me kind of, you know, what is it like to negotiate with a team or what does it like to be the negotiated for a team? I tell them often that from an agent perspective, it's not the negotiation with the team that are the most difficult conversations often. Often, the most difficult conversations are your negotiation with your client in terms of expectation setting. And, you know, this kind of goes back to your previous question in terms of, okay, what levers can I play with in order to get a deal that takes that injury risk off of your plate but still makes some level of sense relative to you.

your market value. And so that's when you start thinking about, okay, would you take a lesser API to have a greater percentage of that total value guaranteed? Would you take a lesser APY if the deal, instead of being a four or five year extension, was only a three-year extension so that by the time, you know, you're 27, 28 years old or 29, you're getting back to the market again to get another bite at the apple. And it's those conversations with your clients where you articulate kind of these are the different levers we can play with what is most important to you. And as I said previously, you know, maybe I'm willing to take the lesser or the shorter deal that gives me a better guarantee structure and I'm willing to sacrifice the average per year.

And therefore, now you can hang your hat on the fact that you've got a great guarantee structure and then the team can hang their hat on the fact that they've got an APY that makes sense relative to their cap situation and relative to the wide receiver market. Yeah, I think that's, you know, those are interesting conversations because, you know, at the end of the day, the agent wants to win, the player wants to win, and they want their deal to look good relative to their contemporaries. And at the same time, you know, you don't want to risk what, you know, like I remember Cooley essentially telling me it's like, you know,

what's ultimately the big difference between 50, million and guaranteed and 47 million in guaranteed. It may not look as good as, you know, a comparable player, but you're set for life without ever having to, you know, worry about an injury not getting you to that kind of money. I mean, these are the decisions that obviously normal people are never faced with, but there's a lot of competitiveness to get a deal that looks good for the agent and the player. and sometimes that player and agent are taking, you know, a big role of the dice.

I mean, if he were to go in, you think that he'll get a contract extension done before the season. I do too. I think it'll be done before camp. It just seems like this is the kind of player, J.I., that they have wanted to be a part of this culture change that Ron Rivera's been talking about since he got here. So I expect that they'll get a deal done. But if they don't, there's huge risk for Terry. There's also, you know, the possibility that he is one season away from unrestricted free agency if they decided not to use the franchise tag.

And that could be an even bigger, you know, payoff. But when you're off of a rookie deal, the best course of action if the team's interested, right, is to get a pre-end of rookie deal contract extension done with a lot of guaranteed money. That would seem to me to be the best way to go rather than, you know, Even if you didn't love the team you were playing on, that's the way to get it locked in. To get that first big deal locked in is with the team that drafted you. Yeah, no, I mean, for both the club and the agent and player, for that matter, a lot is at the end of the day comes down to risk management, right?

And you hit the nail on the head, you know, why, you know, in using the Cooley, you know, example, what's the difference between 47 and 55? I get it the optics are different, right? And, you know, you think back to the coolie days, the over-the-cats and the bow tracks of the world didn't exist. So, you know, players' compensation wasn't as public as it is today. But, again, 47 versus 55, you're rich. You're generationally rich either way.

So let's take that risk, that injury risk, off of the table, and do what makes sense for both sides here. Yeah. You know, there's always the possibility, right, that you could demand a trade like A.J. Brown essentially did, or even if he didn't, ultimately Tennessee decided to, you know, they weren't going to pay A.J. Brown what he and his agent were looking for. And they leveraged, you know, the trade opportunity right now before, you know, getting to the point where they would have to franchise him next year to keep them. I don't see that as a possibility. Terry McClureen, do you? I don't, and it goes back to what you said a couple of minutes ago, in terms of this culture shift within the organization, within the locker room.

He is the post of child for what you want in terms of that. So you don't move on from that player. You just find a way to make the numbers work from both the cash and cap standpoint so that you keep that player in your locker room so you keep that culture change moving along. What would it say to you if they didn't get a deal done before this season started? And what would your advice be to your client if you didn't get a contract extension done?

Yeah, it would tell me one that, you know, Terry was comfortable betting on himself. You know, betting that he would make, you know, while he's only making less than $3 million this year, he's betting on himself that he'll remain productive and he'll get either to pre-agency next. here or you're going to get tagged and, you know, possibly traded. I would advise him that, you know, you're not playing through any injuries. If there are games missed because you've got a sore back or a tight hamstring, people in the scouting community will know kind of what was going on. And so that should not affect your market value if you get to the market next all season. But again, it's really Perry is betting on himself and you manage that, of course.

Yeah, I mean, so your advice wouldn't be to hold out with a player like Terry, who is very valuable. I mean, he's not your typical third-round pick at the end of a rookie deal. No, well, the challenge is that the new CBA really is penalized when it comes to hold out. So, yeah, so it's really not an option anymore, but you can't hold in. You can't say, you know what, my back is tight. My hamstring is tight. I don't think I can go today. And, you know, we've seen that, you know, recently with players.

But, yeah, again, he's betting on getting through this season. If he does not get a deal done ahead of training cap ahead of the season, then he's betting on himself. You know, you just reminded me because I remember feeling this way what you just said about Trent Williams. And I forget maybe we talked about this, but Trent should have just shown up and said, you know, I can't play with this, you know, this head injury. And instead, you know, he missed out on, you know, what was it, a full season of salary?

And maybe it was a little bit more than that. He should have just shown up and then not played. Yeah, no, without a doubt. And I think sometimes, and we see this at all walks of life, sometimes your emotions kind of get ahead of you and over, you know, rational thinking, particularly when it comes to making millions upon millions of dollars, right? But yeah, I think you've seen over the past couple of years that there is a little bit of an arch to holding in, and we've seen players do it. What about Duran Payne? Fifth year, option year, unrestricted free agent, potentially next year.

There have been reports that Washington is not going to sign them to a long-term deal. How does that player approach this season? I mean, it's they, on one hand, it's a kind of contract year, and it's a chance to get a boatload in free agency next year. And at the same time, there's some risk of injury. And, you know, potentially there's the, what you just described, the hold-in situation. You know, what's your advice to a player, you know, in his fifth year option year? I think when any player is in the final year of their deal, there is in the back of their minds. It's my contract year, either I need to ball out and or I need to manage any injury. or try not to get injured type of deal, right?

He's making $8.5 million this year, and it's fully guaranteed. So he's going to get it regardless. But, yeah, in the back of his mind, but in the back of his mind, yes, he knows it's a contract year. But again, pro scouts, they know when players are kind of dogging it because they're in hopes of getting their payday next off season, which then becomes the red flag to say, do I really want to pay this guy a bunch of money, and then when he gets here, he feels like he's made it, and now the effort dropped off.

So there's a delicate balance there for Durand Payne in their contract here. And when you know that in all likelihood, your current club is not going to extend you, now that could change. You could become dominant and become defensive MVP in the league, and they choose the franchise tag you, or they choose to engage you in extension. things can change between now and the end of the season. But, yeah, he's trying to, he's playing for his next contract, wherever that may be. Let's talk about some of the other contract situations around the league. What do you think's going to happen with Lamar Jackson and Baltimore? I think, as I kind of observe Lamar's situation, obviously, you know, players self-representing themselves

is something I'm kind of familiar with, given my time, you know, working with Russell Okun. I think Lamar Jackson could go the Kirk Cousins route. I think Lamar Jackson saw what played out with Kurt Cousins in Washington and ultimately led him to getting a fully guaranteed contract. And then the, you know, Deshaun Watson gets a fully guaranteed contract this offseason. I think that is his end game. He may not know mechanically how to get there. he may just know at a macro level.

I know Kurt Cousins bet on himself and he got tagged, you know, twice, and then it led to him getting a fully guaranteed contract. Well, I'm a better player. I'm, you know, former MVP. Baltimore's not going to move on for me. So there's no need for me to lock it in my rights with Baltimore for an extended amount of time. I want that fully guaranteed contract. I think that's where he's at.

Big risk, though. I mean, there's a difference in the players. And I'm not talking about, you know, which player is better. I'm talking about the style of. of the two players. Sure. And he was already banged up this year and missed some games. That's a big bet on himself with the way he plays, don't you think?

Without a doubt. And I think when you go back to our earlier conversation about, you know, when you have an agent and a player, sometimes you need your agent to kind of help you weigh out the risk versus the reward given your style of play in this example. Right. but when there is no agent in the process, you know, Lamar's going to bet on himself all day, every day. And so the players are going to bet on himself and say that, you know what,

I might get dinged up, but I'm that good, I'm going to get there, and, you know, I want to get that fully guaranteed contract or I don't want to give Baltimore my rights for all these years. I'm going to get there. What about Debo Samuel? What do you think the likely outcome is there? That one's a tricky one just because it was so public from the player his desire to not be there. And then, you know, in return, the club is very public about, you know, saying,

we don't really want to trade the guy. Like, you know, he's an asset. And I think that, I think that Debo and his representation, again, without knowing either one of those parties, they probably want that higher in Devante Adams, Tyreece Hill money, right? and the Ninth clearly are balking. But, and this goes back to the Lamar Jackson conversation. The silent with Debo Samuel plays football and the way they use him,

do you want to commit that level of compensation to a player who is put at risk a lot? Right. And so, you know, the Ninth hold his right, short of them trading him. He's got to show up because, again, the CBA really makes it hard to hold out. And so I see Veebo Samuel being a 49ers this season.

What about Russell Wilson? After what Denver gave up for Wilson, he's got two years left on his deal. Don't you have to sign him almost immediately to an extension? Or can you wait until after this upcoming season when he's got one year left? I would get that deal done sooner rather than later, just because the later you wait to do that deal. More leverage you're giving to Russell Wilson and his agents.

The quarterback market could change a little bit more, although probably not dramatically, barring a Kyler-Murray deal. And, you know, if you're making that commitment to the guy, which you clearly have by acquiring him, go ahead and, you know, lock him in. Because, again, it's hard to find quarterbacks. And that's why the Broncos gave up what they did in order to acquire him. So along with the way of saying that I would do a Russell Wilson extension this year, while he's got two years left on the deal, as opposed to waiting as he goes into the final year of his deal.

All right, let's finish up with J.I. Hallsell with this, J.I. You worked for this organization. You were here during some tumultuous times, not the most tumultuous times. Those times are happening right now over the last couple of years. What have you made of the Snyder situation? And what do you think happens? He's not going to go out without a fight. He's going to fight tooth and nail. And, you know, that's been his history, right? It does seem like there are things accumulating that are getting us to that point where,

yeah, he could be ousted by his partner, the other owners. But, you know, the history has shown you that Dan has been able to survive a lot. He's got to fight in him from a lawyer-lawering up standpoint. So it's not going to be easy. And quite honestly, it would not surprise if he survived it. Do players and agents talk about this? You know, there's this discussion among all of us that if a good player has a choice, they're not coming here because of the dysfunction for a long period of time and ownership. Is that a discussion among players and agents as it relates to Washington or not?

Oh, absolutely. It absolutely is. You know, particularly when we get the free agency, you know, you're looking at stability of an organization, stability of ownership, stability of the coaching. staff, the ability of the front office staff. All of those things, you know, play in that negotiation between agent and player. So when, you know, you've got a client and Washington has shown interest in free agency, you have to have that conversation. Like, you know, there's a reason why this organization has had what seems like a gray cloud

over it for, you know, two plus decades now, right? And do you want to voluntarily sign up for that, you know, unless the money is just tremendous? And we've been down that road before where, you know, Washington had to pay well above market prices to get players to come there. And so it absolutely is a consideration for agents and players. Thanks for doing this. It's great to catch up. I hope you're well and we'll talk soon. I appreciate it as always. Hey, as always, Kevin.

Thank for having me on. All right. That is it for the day. Back tomorrow.