The Kevin Sheehan Show - A WFT Vaccination Problem

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

Kevin talked Chase Young Defensive MVP odds to start the show. He discussed Brady's amazing SB year in Tampa on a torn MCL and then got to the AP story from earlier today that revealed Washington and Indianapolis as the teams with the lowest vaccination rates in the NFL. Chase Hughes (NBC Sports Washington) joined Kevin for a discussion about Bradley Beal's exit from the USA Olympic team. Kevin finished the show with an interview he did with Mike Silver (WFT'S latest hire) from January of 2020, shortly after Ron Rivera was hired. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Chase Hughes from NBC Sports Washington will be on the show today. The Bradley Beale situation, him off the Olympic team for COVID-19 protocol reasons. I think the story, the way it's been reported, hasn't offered up a lot of detail.

We will talk to Chase Hughes about that in a few minutes. Also, I went back last night and found an interview that I did with Mike Silver. Mike Silver is the newest hire by the Washington football team to be involved in producing content for their website, etc. I interviewed Mike for the radio show right after Ron Rivera got hired, in part because the week prior he had written a lengthy story about what Rivera was doing. doing, which sort of indicated that he was going to get back into coaching. And I referenced some of that the other day, including some of Rivera's quotes from Mike Silver's story. What I was going to do, and I think I've done this maybe once before, at the end of the podcast, the last segment of this podcast, I'll just let you hear the raw interview with Mike Silver, which again was shortly after

Ron Rivera was hired. I listened to it, and I just think that there are some things that. I'm were interesting, his take on Rivera at the time, some of the things that Ron Rivera was thinking and looking for at the time, some of his predictions on what Ron Rivera would do in Washington, et cetera. So you'll hear that. I think it's roughly 20, 22 minutes, something like that as the last segment of the podcast today. If you are listening to the podcast and you want to bet on sports,

go to MyBooky at MyBooky.com. use my promo code Kevin D.C. And they will match your deposit halfway up to $1,000. Kevin D.C. You got to use my bonus code so that they know that you found my bookie because of me. NBA finals game tonight. By the way, I do not have a strong feeling on the game tonight. Not after the other night.

You know, I was wrong on Phoenix. I loved Phoenix plus the four and a half. I loved them on the money line as well. And neither one of those worked out very well. Phoenix is a four-point favorite tonight in game five at home. I don't like the game either way. I was going to tell you that I was on my bookie last night looking at various NFL props for the upcoming season. And I thought one of the interesting ones was for defensive MVP of the 2021 season.

And I wanted to see where Chase Young was on that list. Miles Garrett is actually the favorite to be the 2021-2020 NFL defensive player of the year at plus 300. Aaron Donald is second at plus 550. By the way, Aaron Donald is the best defensive player in the league right now. And as John Thompson used to say, you can count three or four spaces before you get to number two. That doesn't mean he will have an MVP caliber year. And Miles Garrett as more of an edge pass rusher, he's a monster too.

Now the third, the third pick right now, odds-wise, at My Bookie to win the NFL defensive player of the year is Chase Young at plus 800. He's ahead of T.J. Watt. He's ahead of both of the bosses. He's ahead of Khalil Mack. He's ahead of Devin White. He's ahead of Bradley Chubb and Bobby Wagner and Derwin James,

who will be coming back off of injury for the Chargers. he is up there and really it's Garrett, Donald, and Young. Garrett's at plus 300, Donald's at plus 550, and Chase Young is at plus 800. The third pick in year two to be the defensive MVP this year. By the way, in their long list of NFL players that have odds, and they've got roughly, I think, 25 to 30 players listed with odds, as potential MVP's. Montez Sweat is one of those players. Now, he's a long shot. He's not the longest shot on the board, but Montez Sweat is plus 6,500 to win the defensive MVP. So put 100 on

Montez Sweat. If he ends up becoming the MVP, defensive MVP of the league, you win 6,500. By the way, the same odds at plus 6,500 as Richard Sherman. odds at plus 6,500. The two players with the longest odds are Darius Slay, Corner in Philadelphia, and Kyle Van Nuoy, who are both plus 10,000. But a lot of the offshore, a lot of the legal sports books as well in Vegas, all looking at Chase Young as a potential defensive MVP at MyBooky, Chase Young at plus 800. Go to MyBooky, mybooky.orgy.orgy.org. And you my bonus code, Kevin D.C., and they will match your deposit halfway up to $1,000. You certainly want to get that done now while you can get the big bonus before football

season begins. I want to start with this story that broke early this morning. Tom Brady, the Super Bowl winning quarterback for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Tom Brady played much of his first season in Tampa Bay on a torn MCL in his left knee. That according to a report in the Tampa Bay Times this morning. Brady suffered the injury in his final season with the Patriots, and it gradually worsened during the year in Tampa last year. However, he was never listed on the injury report, all season long, never listed on the injury report. He, Underwent surgery that was already reported to repair that knee in late February a few weeks after the Super Bowl. Brady has never discussed the specifics about the surgery, only saying, quote, at the time, it was pretty serious, closed quote.

Remember that Brady did in 2008, we recall, even though the Patriots went 11 and 5 without him, he suffered a torn ACL in week one of that season. That's the only other season, that's the only season where he was injured. He played last year on a torn MCL. Buck's QB coach, Clyde Christensen, said last month that Brady's knee injury was a nagging nuisance that affected him all season long. He said, quote, I don't think he was 100% last year. His quote or close to a quote was, hey, I'm going to get my knee fixed up. I'm going to be better next year and you're going to be excited about that closed quote.

Christensen talking about what Brady said after the Super Bowl. Brady did wear a brace on his left knee during the Super Bowl parade where he tried to throw the Lombardi Trophy from one boat to another. But there you go. If there's any other data that you need in your conversation or debate about the greatest of all time, Tom Brady led a team to a Super Bowl on a torn MCL the entire season. So not a lot of Washington football team news to discuss, but there are two items. Number one, the Brandon Sheriff playing on the franchise tag thing is official now.

Many of you asked me what percentage odds would you put or what percent chance would you put on Brandon Sheriff being on the team next year? And I said, you know, less than 50-50. but I wouldn't rule it out completely. I remember how I felt about the second franchise tag on Kirk Cousins, and I remember saying at the time, well, this will be his last year. That's almost a lock that he's going to go to unrestricted free agency and that another team will be willing to pay him what his market value is. This team was not willing to pay him his market value and didn't even recognize what the market value was,

But then I also said, sort of straddling the fence, if you will, look, if they have a big year in 2017 and they get to the playoffs and all of a sudden he and Jay and he and Bruce and Dan, they're all getting along a little bit better and he has a big year, maybe the team will make them a long-term offer. And he won't want to leave because, you know, they want a playoff game and the arrows pointing upward because the defense is getting better or whatever. That possibility existed. but of course 2017 turned into a debacle of a season with all the injuries. So with Brandon Sheriff, I would sort of say the same thing, that he's going to, you know, more likely than not, you know, roll the dice on unrestricted free agency. I mean, once you sniff it as a player after two franchise tags,

the second of which pays you nearly $18 million and makes you the highest paid guard in the upcoming season, you're going to let teams, you know, have a bidding war over you. And I mentioned this the other day. there are no real at this point, sort of legitimate upper-tier guards that are going to be free agents after the upcoming season. So he's going to own that market. Anybody that needs a guard, let's just say it's three or four teams that desperately need one. There will be a bidding war for Brandon Sheriff. But is it possible? You know, they go 13 and 4 this year and they win two playoff games and they lose in the NFC championship game to the bucks or to the cowboys or to the

Rams and Brandon Sheriff says, I want to be a part of this thing. We're going to go win the Super Bowl the next year and I want to be a part of it. I guess, you know, that possibility exists. But I would wager against him playing for Washington after this upcoming season. So then there was this other story from this morning related to the Washington football team. From the Associated Press, two NFL teams remain under 50% vaccinated less than two weeks from the start of training camp, a person familiar with the vaccination rates told the Associated Press. Washington and Indianapolis had the two lowest COVID-19 vaccination rates among the 32 teams

in the league, according to a person who spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the league hasn't released the numbers which are changing daily. Washington and Indianapolis are the two teams under 50% vaccination rate. Pittsburgh, Miami, Carolina, and Denver, if you're curious, have the highest vaccination rates according to this report. And the league overall has a vaccination rate of just over 70% at this point. Washington at under 50%, Indianapolis being the other team that's under 50%. So I don't know if Washington's dead last or 31st, but they're one of the two lowest vaccinated teams in the league. Now, we could have the whole conversation about, you know, vaccination or not. I think you should get vaccinated. That's my advice. I got vaccinated. Everybody I know

and I love has gotten vaccinated. I don't know why you wouldn't get vaccinated. I certainly did enough research that led me to believe that overwhelmingly it was the right thing for me and my, you know, in my kids. I'm also a big believer in your body, your choice when it comes to this thing. But that's a separate conversation for another day. I think personally, I don't know, you know, other than for some specific health reason or, you know, you've been reading a lot about, you know, you had COVID, you've got the antibodies and you're concerned about getting vaccinated because you've already had it, you've got, you know, the built-up

antibodies already, whatever. That conversation aside, it is a competitive disadvantage or it could be a competitive disadvantage to be on the lower end of NFL teams from a vaccination standpoint, because unvaccinated players will continue to get daily tested, They have to wear masks. They have to practice physical distancing. They won't be allowed to eat meals with teammates. They can't participate in media or marketing activities while traveling. They're not permitted to use the sauna or steam room at team facilities.

They can't leave the team hotel on road trips. They can't interact with people outside the team while traveling. Vaccinated players will have none of those restrictions. There's also some limitations on training camp practices, joint practices in particular. But the bottom line is a vaccinated player won't get tested. An unvaccinated player will continue to get tested. An unvaccinated player will be subject to contact tracing protocols in the NFL. vaccinated players won't be.

So if you are exposed to somebody with COVID-19 and you're unvaccinated, you could miss practices and games. And by the way, the NFL's made it very clear. They are not canceling or rescheduling games this year. They do not plan to cancel or reschedule any games this year. So will it manifest itself into a major issue for the teams that are not? on the lower end of the vaccination scale. It could. It doesn't mean that it will.

It could. Washington last year did a great job. We should, you know, we should understand that last year, Washington was one of the leaders in the NFL in terms of teams without issues related to COVID. I think ultimately there were just a couple of players, and that was Matt Ionitis, who was already on injured reserve for the season. And then Javon Leak, the Maryland kick returner. running back that they signed to their practice squad ended up with COVID. But nobody, nobody on the team lost games or practices that were eligible for those during the season.

The team did a very good job for the most part compared to other NFL teams. Still, you would rather have your team be on the higher end of that vaccination number than on the lower end because there's more risk. Okay, when we come back, Chase Hughes, who writes for NBC Sports Washington, does a lot of TV work for NBC Sports Washington covering the wizards. We're going to talk about this Bradley Beale situation, speaking of vaccinated or unvaccinated. That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. We welcome Chase Hughes from NBC Sports Washington on the podcast. Follow Chase on Twitter at Chase Hughes, NBCS.

He writes, he tweets. he tweets, he does a lot of work for the NBC Sports Local Network and does a ton on the Wizards. And I just think this Bradley Beal thing, Chase, is a bit confusing to me. And I was hoping you'd be able to clear it up. First of all, I'd like to go chronologically before we even got to this week because there was a COVID outbreak on the team, you know, during the season. and we remember some of the games that were lost and some of the delays, et cetera. I wanted to clear one thing up. Bradley Beale never got COVID, correct?

That is correct. At least not during that time. He did not get COVID, which was pretty remarkable if you think about the timing of this, that the Wizards had, by some account, the worst COVID outbreak of any team during the NBA season. They certainly had it the worst before anyone else. they had six games postponed, basically half their rotation was affected by it. And Brad the Beale was one of the few guys that wasn't. Him and Russell Westbrook were in the line, but I think that's what made a lot of their losing right after that

confusing to people because they were like, well, they had Brad DeBeele and Russell Westbrook, weren't they winning? Well, they were missing a lot of other guys. He missed one game during the regular season due to COVID protocols. And that was after he interacted with Jason Tater following the Wizard Celtics game. But he was cleared right after that. So it was an inconclusive test. So, yeah, he was able to go throughout the entire season unscathed,

and then it affected him now. Obviously, it's just an unbelievably terrible time. Okay, so let's get to this week. Tell us sort of step by step what happened here. So Bradley Beale played in the game on Tuesday night. He played well enough to be the representative at the podium because he led the team in scoring with 17 points. And then the next day, he entered protocol.

And the following day after that, he was ruled ineligible for the Olympics. You know, I think that the timing, again, was terrible. They're supposed to leave for Tokyo on Monday. When the news first broke that he had entered protocol, it was 11 days before their first game. But, of course, the ceremonies before that, and of course, as I mentioned, their departure to Tokyo was much further before that. So the timing just didn't offer enough time for him to get it out of his system and get clear. The good news is that he doesn't have symptoms. I mean, Chris Miller, my colleague reported that,

and then we talked to Bam out of bio yesterday, who's a friend of his, and he said that he talked to Bradley Beale. He's feeling good, he doesn't have symptoms, and that's a good thing, because Bam out of Bio actually dealt with it earlier this season and was not as fortunate. He had symptoms and said it was really, really rough. So I guess that's the good news, but obviously very, very disappointing for Beal, who has dreamed of doing this for a long, long time.

Okay, so what you just said is a confirmation, I guess for me, and I thought it was rather vague, that he actually does have COVID. That's why he's in protocol. It's not because of contact tracing. Right, right. And all this stuff has been very vague when it's announced and handled by the team. I think they see it as different than an injury. At least that's the way that the Wizards approached it all season, and I think that's

the way other teams did. They would tell you that a player tested positive or a player was out, but they would never name that player. So the public would know, but they could never say it specifically, I guess, because of HIPAA law. So it's all been kind of nebulous all season. So I wasn't surprised that USA basketball was pretty vague to start. But then, of course, they did have a release, and they mentioned Bradley Biel and Greg Popovich was able to say that it was Bradley Biel and that they'll miss him, but he didn't go into any detail in terms of the circumstances, which we haven't heard much details in terms of the circumstances of how these guys have caught it all year, you know,

all throughout the season. So I don't know if we're going to get that information unless Bradley be able to decide to offer it up. All right. So the great news is he is without symptoms, having tested positive, it sounds like with COVID. The obvious question that I have not seen an answer to is whether or not Bradley Beale had been vaccinated. Right. That is the big question that a lot of fans are asking me. And the short answer is we don't know for certain. The long answer would be judging how this affected him compared to Jeremy Grant, for instance. You could certainly deduce that Bradley Beal, my guess would be that he wasn't vaccinated. Throughout the season, you know, you can go back and look at pictures that the team put out of them at

practice and notice that he's one of the few guys with a mask on and, you know, the rest of the team won't have a mask on. So you could consider that a clue. but he hasn't said anything publicly about it, and there's nothing definitive. So unless he comes out with an interview soon, if he does, I would imagine someone would ask him about it. I just talked to him last week, but this was before all this stuff blew up. So certainly if I was talking to him now, I would ask him. But yeah, the long answer is we don't know for certain, but certainly you could guess based on how things have gone. Well, I mean, the deduction could be sort of conclude with, are they tested if they,

they've been vaccinated or not. Because if they're not tested because they were vaccinated, well, then he was tested had COVID-19, which means that he wasn't vaccinated. You know, it's like the John Rom's situation, and I have no idea if they're comparable, the PGA tour and what USA basketball is doing. But had he been vaccinated, he wouldn't have even been tested. That's a good question. That's a really good question.

Yeah, I don't follow golf, but I do remember that the guy had to bounce out of the tournament, right? and he was playing pretty well. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of clues here that would point in one direction and suggest that Brad the deal hasn't been vaccinated. But, you know, as we have also heard, I guess it's a slim chance that you can still catch it even if you have been vaccinated.

That's right. Generally, you don't have symptoms. Generally, you're much less likely to go to the hospital. You're much less likely to be in great danger because of it. But there is technically that possibility. So you mentioned Jeremy Grant that I did read he was placed into the protocol, you know, the thing, but he, but Popovich expressed optimism that he'd be able to remain with the team and be on the Olympic team, which tells me that he obviously didn't test positive. And maybe this is just out of precaution. But the whole thing is odd because I think especially with Popovich as the head coach,

I think it's very interesting that part of the determination on who was going to be on this team and who wasn't, given that they were going to be traveling, given that they were going to be in very close quarters, I think they rolled the dice by putting, if Bradley Beale isn't vaccinated, by putting an unvaccinated player on the team. I think that could be a fair assessment for sure. I mean, Greg Popovich also keep in mind, if you wanted to compare, NBA teams and how they dealt with COVID. The Spurs had a really tough bout, too. Right.

It was then the Wizards, the Celtics, I think the Grizzlies, maybe those would be the four teams that got it the worst. But the Spurs were after the Wizards, and they had four or five games postponed. So certainly Greg Popovich has been through it. Bradley Beale's been through it. For Bradley Beale, if he isn't vaccinated, to go the entire season and not be affected by it

while being in the locker room and being in the practice facility of the Wizards when they had so much of it going on. And then to get to this point and have it affect him, that certainly is surprising. So, yeah, you're right. I mean, obviously this is an unusual Olympics that's going on at the same time as the NBA playoffs.

So they had to weigh a lot of different factors. They had to focus on players that are not still in the NBA playoffs. And Bradley Biel, kind of all the stars aligned for him to come. And he had a chance to be one of the best players on the team. And something went wrong before he could, even get there. Yeah, and they finally, you know, played a decent game the other night, and I watched some of that game, and he and Durant, you know, both had 17 to lead him. I was really, it's disappointing because I do like USA basketball. I like the international competitions.

I like when they're in the Olympics. And by the way, I think there's more intrigue when there's actually some doubt as to how dominant they're going to be going into it, which I think there is a little bit heading into this one based on the first two tuneups and exhibition games. Well, it's too bad. The good news is, obviously, he's not sick. If he's got COVID, he's not sick. He's symptomless, and that's the best news. And the whole thing, though, was interesting the way it sort of came about in the last,

you know, 24 to 30 hours or whatever it's been right now. While I have you on, first of all, what do you think about this? international team. I guess they're going to get Booker and they're going to get Middleton and they're going to get holiday right when the NBA finals are over. At least that's what the thought is right now. What do you make of this team heading into Tokyo in the Olympics with, you know, Australia and Spain and some of the other teams that are pretty good? I think they'll still win gold, but I think they're going to be pushed pretty hard. I mean, losing Bradley Beal, he was one of the reasons why they won their first game the other night. You know, he got hot in the first quarter, had 10 points,

shot perfect four for four from the field. They need all the help they can get. And we'll see if all those guys show up. You know, this finals may end up going the distance. And it's three players you're relying on all showing up. But if they can get certainly a guy like Devin Booker or any combination of those guys, Drew Holiday and Chris Middleton would help them with perimeter defense, which they've had trouble with.

Devin Booker would be the guy who could help replace Bradley Buehl's scoring. So they could use some help for sure. but the teams around the globe have gotten so much better. And this isn't as talented of a United States team as we've seen in the past. You know, maybe 10 years from now, that will change. I'll look back and be amazed at how many players they had. I mean, you can go back and look at some of the rosters. Like 2012, I was watching a game of theirs the other night.

I was fortunate enough to see their exhibition at Capitol One Arena when they played here. It was one of the best sporting events I've ever been to. Wow. You know, like the 10th or 11th guy on their bench was James Hart. Like they had Russell Westbrook, who was like nine years younger, and he was like a bench player, and they would have starting lineups with like Chris Paul, Kobe, Kevin Durant, LeBron, you know, Carmelo Anthony. It was just unbelievable the amount of talent they had. You can't compare this team to then.

Kevin Durant is an all-time grade, a legend. Damian Lillard, I think, is right on the cuff of being one, certainly a Hall of Famer. But they're not, they can't roll an entire lineup out of all-time great, like previous. teams could. This isn't the dream team. So I think talent-wise, that the gap is smaller, not just because teams around the world have gotten better, but because they don't have the Kawhi Leonards and LeBron's and Anthony Davis, if you had your best team, you would be a lot more stacked than they currently are, I think. So I think they'll medal, but I think there's going to be a lot of close games, and I think they're really going to be pushed, maybe more than they

have been since 2004 the last time they didn't win gold. I think their first game is against France on the 25th. I was looking at this last night, and they're like a 15-point favorite. France is a good team. Now, Australia and Spain appear to be the more significant competitors over there. You know, you've done, when I've watched you on like the pre-game stuff or the halftime stuff with all the different guys, you know, whether it's Brendan or the different guys that you are in, you know, you're in conversation with, I think you always do a really good job of holding

your own on the basketball conversation. And I was talking to, well, I mean, I've always felt that way. And even in our conversations, one of the things that fascinates me, and I think I was saying this to Tommy yesterday, or maybe it was on the radio show, I forget. But in watching some of the games early that they lost and then remembering when they've struggled before, you know, there are lots of differences between international basketball in the NBA. But one of the more significant differences is you can play a true zone in international basketball, whereas in the NBA, you've got a defensive three-second rule, which means that you

can play zone. And we've seen more teams, in recent years, in particular, employ a lot more zone and different types of zone, which we never saw when zone initially became legal with the defensive three-second. But in international ball, you can play a true college zone. And it's funny to watch the U.S. teams previously and even this one, they don't run typical zone offense against a real zone because they don't really have to at the NBA level. They can still run pick and roll. They can still run their man offense against an NBA zone.

But it's really hard to do that against a true zone, which is why sometimes I think, you know, we've watched them struggle a little bit, even though they clearly have the best players. And by the way, you would think intuitively they also have the greatest shooters and this team is loaded with them so that they shouldn't struggle with it. But it's just funny to see that. I think it's an advantage for the international teams that really play good,

traditional, you know, college high school zone, not NBA zone. Yeah, I think that's part of it. And that's why, you know, Bradley Beale after Tuesday's game, when he was at the podium, had some just really interesting, detailed insight on the adjustments that Team USA needs to make. And offensively, you know, he's talked about the balance that they have to tow between being aggressive and looking for their own shots and realizing that there's a lot of stars on the team. You have to defer to others sometimes, move the ball, make the extra pass.

What he said he thinks is most key is the drive and kick. And, you know, basically break down the defense and pass out to an open shooter. And we saw more of that on Tuesday night. And on the other end of the floor, perimeter defense has been a problem for them so far. You know, they gave up 23 to Nigeria, which is absolutely incredible, and a 40-minute game, too. And then they struggled with it against Australia, and then they were able to hold Argentina 9 to 24 from 3. But basically, they've been playing a lot of switch defense. And I think what they've realized is that these teams around the world have adapted to the three-point,

the emphasis of the three-point shot in basketball, and they can shoot from deeper range. So if you go under screen, you're in trouble, and these guys can knock down shots. Even players you've never even heard of that aren't in the NBA, can hit shots from 24, 25 feet now. So I think there's adjustments on both ends of the floor. There's more contact.

A few of fouls are called. Of course, the three-point lines, different, the distance. You can grab the ball off the rim, which would normally be goaltending, goaltending or active interference. So there's a lot of different things, and that's part of the process of these exhibition games that they've been going through.

And it seemed like Brad the Beal was getting it as much as anyone. And Greg Popovich even said that. So it's unfortunate that he's not going to be a part of this because he was really kind of rounding into his form already earlier than a lot of the other guy. For those that are listening that are seriously, Sheehan, we're doing 10 minutes on international basketball. Yeah, we are.

And the only thing I would say is that the drive kick and all of the space floor man concepts aren't going to work more often than not against a set zone. The ball's got to move and you've got to move the defense a little bit. But look, if Popovich should be able to figure it out. And the bottom line is if their defense turns it into an up-tempo game, it's not going to matter. It's sort of like the Wizards team this year, Chase, and really the Wizards team for the last seven years, when they took it off the glass or they turned people over and they were able to turn it into an up-tempo game, they thrived. When the game slowed down, whether it was with Westbrook or a wall before them, they struggled.

And this team should be able to dominate the glass and turn people over and their perimeter defense should be good or should be better. By the way, speaking of our wizards, are they going to have a coach anytime soon? Well, it looks like it'll be West Sunfield Jr., which is, I guess, a little anti-climactic, because that's the guy that everyone's been tying to this job, not only going into this search, but for a year. And I think one of the reasons, there's a few reasons why it's taken this long. One is that they went into the search, understanding they were going to go for an assistant and up-and-comer and not someone with head coaching experience. So I think they had to cast a wide net and make sure they talked to a lot of people

and go through a more extensive vetting process, right? because this person hasn't been a head coach before. You're asking them to coach Bradley Beal and Russell Westbrook and make it work right away. And then also I think Westonsel Jr. always had a really good chance at this job. But Darvinham and to a certain extent, Charles Lee, the two assistants of the Bucks just really impressed them in the interview process. And I think they warranted a stronger consideration than the Wizard's front office

expected to give them going in. But it still remains, and it looks like West Unseldorf, junior will be the pick. And if he is, I think it's a great choice, no matter the name or his connection to the franchise. He's got a great resume. Associate head coach of the Denver Nuggets, a really well-coached team. You know, he knows defense. He's coached at other stops, like the Warriors and the Magic.

He's a great head coaching candidate. So if they end up choosing him, it'll be a great story. But I also think it would be a good choice for what they need. A guy who, I think, could install even more defensive structure or maybe a lot more defensive structure and help them kind of build the program that they're looking for. All right. Last one, and I'll let you run. Actually, two more. Do you agree with me that if Kauai Leonard doesn't get hurt, the Klippers right now are in the NBA finals and probably ahead in the NBA finals? I do. I do agree with that. Not only because the

clippers were able to push the sun pretty far without Kauai Leonard, he didn't play in that series at all, but before he got hurt, I mean, he was arguably the best. player in this postseason. He was phenomenal. He was absolutely dominating offensively, I mean, scoring with volume and efficiency, and we know what he brings to the defensive end. So, yeah, I mean, considering how close they were without him and how valuable he is, especially this time of the year, I think that's a completely fair thing to say. But we have two really good teams in the final, you know, the Sons and the Bucks. I think the Bucks are going to take it. I think Yonis is going to get his first ring and really elevate himself historically,

obviously momentum as we've seen could shift in this series pretty quickly. I loved Phoenix. Before this series, the thing that was alarming the other night was really how bad Chris Paul was and how physically worn out he looked, you know, courtesy of just a big, physical, long-armed, relentless defender in Drew Holliday. He really, he looked his age the other night. And, you know, and losing obviously Booker to so many minutes in the fourth quarter hurt. By the way, just as an aside, how ridiculous was that non-call on Booker?

I mean, that's one of the most egregious, obvious, we're not fouling out a great player in a big game moments in the history of the league. He grabbed him. He intentionally fouled him. I know. I saw someone say, Devin Booker tonight had 41 points and nine foul. Yeah. I mean, it was ridiculous. But I'm, you know, I don't know.

I've enjoyed these NBA playoffs. I know you have to. But, you know, Phoenix, Milwaukee, I know doesn't do it for everybody. Thanks. Great work, as always. At Chase Hughes, NBCS on Twitter. Follow him. He'll have all the news if, you know, if and when this Wes Unsell Jr. stuff breaks.

I don't even know what to think about Wes Ansel Jr. other than what people have told me that he's been very, good as a defensive assistant that he's a great communicator and he's been coaching for a good coach in Mike Malone in Denver. Thanks, Chase. Absolutely, Kevin, any time. Thanks to Chase Hughes for jumping on the podcast today. Up next, an old interview that I did with Mike Silver from January of 2020 right after Ron Rivera was hired. You'll hear some of that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. We'll finish up the show today with an interview that I did with Mike Silver right after Ron Rivera got hired in January of 2020.

Now, I'm going to reach out to Mike to try to get him on the radio show or podcast and have a conversation with him and talk about his new role, producing content for the Washington football team. But when Tommy and I were talking yesterday about Mike Silver and the hiring of Mike Silver, I recalled having interviewed Mike, and I remembered the story that he had written about Ron Rivera before Rivera got hired in Washington. And I used some of Rivera's quotes yesterday in the show. I thought it was a pretty interesting interview and very revealing about Ron Rivera.

Anyway, I went back and listened to this interview that I did in January of 2020 with Mike Silver. And I just thought it was sort of interesting to listen to a year and a half later. You know, there's just a lot in there that speaks to why Washington, why the fit was good, things that Mike had talked to Ron about prior to Ron taking the job. Mike having this long relationship with Ron, knowing him and his wife Stephanie pretty well and predicting a few things about Ron Rivera in Washington. He has some things to say about Dan Snyder. So I just thought you might want to listen to this conversation from again a year and a half ago. And again, I'll try to get Mike on here in the next week or so to find out what he's doing with the team now. So here it was back in January of 2020, my conversation with Mike Silver, who at the time was with NFL.com and the NFL network.

I'm glad to finally catch up with you because I really thought it was perfect timing. You know, when you came out with that story about Ron Rivera shortly, you know, just a couple of days before the Redskins ended up hiring him. And there were things in that story that I found so interesting. And that is, first of all, he was always, you know, anxious to get back and was not very comfortable being unemployed. But what, you know, after sitting with him a week and a half ago or whenever it was, what do you think after sitting with him the Redskins are getting in Ron Rivera? Well, they're getting a guy who is a straight shooter and is very, very, you know, driven every day to try to create things in the image that he conceived. So he has a philosophy, he has a culture, he has a way of living, and it will permeate everything he does. And, you know, part of that growing up in a military family, part of that just being a guy who,

has been a grinder in his entire life. But, you know, if the Reds Kippwarned want a pro, if they wanted somebody who knows what he is and what he wants and how he wants to shape it, this was clearly the top choice on the market and one of the best. So around here, you know, it has been 21 years of Dan Snyder's ownership and the dysfunction that's gone with it,

the losing that's gone with it. And every single time, you know, we've been in this situation as a fan, base, you know, it's been sort of promised and painted in the same way. It's like Mike Shanahan, Joe Gibbs, Marty Schottenheimer. You know, not so much with Zorn and Gruden. It was different, but it was about the coach coming in and Dan finally stepping back. And it's never worked out. All of those guys have left in a way in which they weren't necessarily perceived coming in. What will be different in your mind about this time?

Well, I think if you're looking from an outsider perspective, the fact that he fired Bruce Allen and it's more than a gesture, a statement about what the organ that's going to look. So he did that. And, you know, listen, I'm not one of those people who thinks owners have to be completely invisible and passive and non-factors. I do believe Dan Snyder means well and desperately wants to win. And that counts for something with me. There are plenty of owners in the NFL where they're guaranteed a profit

and they essentially are like, cool, it'd be great to win, but I'm good either way. I mean, I think it was shock fans in a highly competitive industry, how content many owners are with just making money and trying to be good sometimes. So if you have an owner who aggressively is trying to win, that is a bonus. And so, you know, I'm not sure that Dan knows exactly how to do it the best way, but he's thinking about it a lot and he wants it. You know, I give him credit in this instance. People say, well, why would Ron Rivera jump at the first job? That's really not what happened. He was out there for weeks.

There were opportunities for everyone to at least back channel and convey interest. And he studied all the situations. And then Dan, you know, who had an advantage, as did David Tepper, because the coach had been fired early, Dan parlayed that advantage into an aggressive strategy. and met with them and they connected and took them off the market. So, you know, listen, I've criticized Dan Snyder for many, many things, but I think... Do you think if Rivera hadn't been aggressively pursued by Dan and potentially with the help of Joe Gibbs, which I'll ask you about here in a moment, do you think Rivera would have gotten another job?

I mean, you had four openings. Oh, yeah, no, I absolutely believe he would have gotten another job. I think, for example, you would have seen him up there with Jerry and... Stephen Jones, had he been on the, you know, had he still been there, I believe that all of the, other than Carolina, and there aren't that many openings this year, but, you know, the other four, I believe, would have looked very, very strong way at him if not offered it to him right away. How influential do you think Joe Gibbs was in Ron Rivera deciding on Washington? That's a great question. I mean, I know Ron and his regard for the people who've made the NFL

great and grow people as it would with anyone that Joe gives wooing you and connecting with you would carry a lot of weight so I have not debriefed with Ron about that but I don't see how that's a negative

and you know the fact that Joe did work for Dan and had that experience I'm sure allowed him to to share some things that very few others could and you know to Dan's credit if you're if you're

come and doesn't the blazing, you know, literally he did. You know, one of the things, we're talking to Michael Silver, who wrote a really good profile on Ron Rivera, and most of you follow Michael on Twitter, I'm sure he's done a lot of NFL stuff,

broken a lot of news over the years, written a lot of really good stories. You know, one of the things from your story, from your, on Rivera, that I've read from multiple times is the story that he told about when he first got to Carolina. You know, when the one player

said, you know, we've been doing it a certain way. And he said, so two and 14 was effing good enough, right? And essentially said, I'll take the bullets for us when we lose. You'll get all the credit when you win as long as you follow me. Do you think he viewed Washington as sort of the same as Carolina was in 2011 when he walked into it? That's a great question. You know, I don't know. I do know that the only conversation we had about that team, you know, and this was a Friday night hearing and you know the only conversation

we really had about the team was that he really liked the roster and that might not be a common perception in the Twitter world or you know for fans around the league but this was a guy who obviously broke it down and broke down

the rosters of all the teams that looked like they might have openings and he really liked it so you know that tells me a lot and you know listen he's a guy who, I guess I included that story about him going off in the meeting and, you know, railing against the players who wouldn't get on board, partly because, you know, people in my business understandably really, really revere this guy. He treats us really well. He treats us

with respect, and he's one of the good ones. So you hear a lot about what a great guy he is, and that's true. But I just wanted to juxtapose that with, hey, he can, he can, he can come in and put a foot up people's another region. So when you were sitting there and he told you that he really liked the Redskins roster, obviously that was not in your profile. I'm assuming that you had a pretty good sense that he

was going to be the Redskins' new head coach at that time. You know, it's one of those things where there are dots you could connect because they were the only two teams could be super aggressive above board at that point, right?

It was Friday night. But technically, only the Panthers who obviously aren't trying to rehire them, and the Redskins can do some things that are on the level and aggressive. So that made the most sense to me. I didn't have any knowledge that was reportable, but it definitely felt like that's what was happening, and certainly that's how it. I'm just curious, and it doesn't matter now.

He's got the job. But when you're sitting there, was that something you asked him about? or did he offer up his feelings about the Washington roster unsolicited? Honestly, we've known to hear it a long time, and we, because, you know, I flew in, got there kind of late, and I was going to come to his house, but then his neighbors were having a party, so he just kind of met me out front and brought me into this party.

So immediately we were in a very, like, shmoozy social contact for hours, and then eventually we went back to his house, and he and Stephanie and I sat. in the kitchen around midnight and did a formal interview. But the first few hours was just kind of hanging out. So, you know, there were a lot of moments during that lead-up where we talked about things. So teams came up, and I just, I recalled at that point, you know, or I recall that after the fact or maybe, you know, as I was writing,

but not including it, that that's what, you know, and maybe because that wasn't part of the formal interview, I felt like I wouldn't meander around the team. But yeah, my instincts were, that's what was going on, just given that they were poised to strike openly and others you're not. At Mike Silver on Twitter

who writes, of course, for NFL.com, does work for NFL network. You've seen him on the NFL network before. You know, I'm wondering if ultimately you know, the number one reason he chose Washington. You know, you talked about the roster, and I think it is thought to be, you know, by this fan

base anyway, it is thought to be, not a 3 and 13 roster. I mean, there's some talent defensively. There's some young talent on offense, and certainly they've got a quarterback, you know, who everybody's got a different opinion on, but he was a first round pick in 2019. Do you think ultimately it was the roster

and the ability potentially to turn it around quickly that attracted him the most? You know, I feel like, honestly, it must have been big picture things because you know, he knew he was one. This was not a mystery. It wasn't just one owner kind of wooing him hard.

You know, he was getting signals that everybody wanted him and he was going to potentially have it. You know, I think the things that most people in that situation would focus on things. And he's, you know, he's a guy who has time, I think. He obviously wants to win. He feels like he's under immense pressure to win the Super Bowl next year, you know, in his own mind. So, you know, I think he probably liked the things that a lot of us have questioned over the years. But, but again, if you're, you know, those of us on the outside, we have seen, you know, many dysfunctional things that we've railed against them. But he also made a pretty big move.

And it wasn't like, hey, Bruce Allen's a reassigned. And he's going to just work on the stadium, but he's still going to kind of be there overseeing or he's going to be in a different role. Like, you know, fired is fired. You know, I'm not, I don't think Ron, knowing Ron, I don't think Ron said, hey, I only want the job if you fire that guy. But I think Dan was trying to reassess things. So that's interesting because maybe what you just said is you don't think that Ron would say that. But do you think he would have accepted the job had Bruce had some role here moving forward? It's a great question.

I don't know. I wish, you know, I wish when we had that long conversation, we were specifically talking. about that one franchise because I would have obviously pressed him on those things. But, you know, listen, I don't – I guess I would just say that just remember that when he took the job, it was a competitive situation. He had options, and he, you know, not only chose that one, but clearly, like, embraced it, right? Excited about it. That's real. That's not an act. So, you know, we've all seen coaches who look like they have options,

and it turns out there's only one option and they go up there and sell it like, this is the one I wanted, but maybe, wow, if I could have had that job, I wouldn't, but of the ones that at least were open or could have been open. I think it's safe to say that anybody with options

wouldn't come in here with Bruce Allen here. I think that that's a pretty safe assumption. They could barely attract any assistant coaches here last year. And part of that was that Jay Gruden appeared to be lame duck, and I understand all that. You know, there was another part of your story that I've referenced

multiple times over the last week plus, and it was Rivera talking about what he was going to look for next. And one of the lines, one of the quotes in there is, I don't want personnel control. I just want to be able to pick which 46 are active for game day

and have a collaborative relationship with the GM, and if there's a conflict, at least be able to go to the owner and state my case, closed quote. Michael, everybody in this town has, we want one thing, those of us that are lifelong fans and I'm one of them, and that is for, you know, not just a new day, which we believe at least for now, at least Bruce is gone and there's a new

coach, but for that coach or that GM, if they hire a GM, to have autonomy, to have true control without any meddling, do you think that that was something he required specific to this job? Well, listen, you know, owners, owners signed the check. The owners always have final say. I don't, you know, it's one thing when it's Al Davis who had a career in football and was a respected football guy, and it's a different

one is Jerry Jones who didn't, but it's still, that's just that works in our capitalist society. So, I mean, you're never going to get rid of that, and I honestly like, you know, what are you going to do? Like, you've got to, you've got to communicate with the owner and

engineers and what you're thinking. You know, I think with Dan, it's not, I don't know if meddling is the word. Some of it I think it's been well-intentioned, but counterproductive. Like when Clinton Portis is riding on your helicopter, is that sending a message that, you know, to him and to other players that if the coach, you know,

insists on something that he has to follow it, or is it like, well, he's buddies with the owner, so it's okay. So, you know, sometimes I think it's just, you know, owner involvement is not even, you know, as sinister as people make it out to be, or as needy, I guess. It's more just people thinking that it's a good way to go about it and not understanding the unintended consequences.

So I think probably Ron, the good thing about Ron is he isn't, you know, he's not subtle. I'm sure Ron expressed exactly what he was looking for, and I'm sure he heard the things that gave comfort level. Now, if the owner decides, well, I set this, but I'm going to do that, then, you know, what are you going to do? But, you know, certainly with

hiring Ron first and then shaping the personnel department, it gives you a great chance at a collaborative. So, for example, how many times do you ever heard out of Seattle? You know, well, Pete Carroll made that call, but John Snyder made that one, or they clashed

on this, which one has control? You never hear about it. And you're talking about, you know, one of the best coaches of his era and possibly the best GM in the game in John Schneider. And they, you know, whatever, you know, tension has ever existed between them, we don't hear. That's the blueprint. That's what you want. And usually when Pete and John didn't know each other going in, they hired Pete and then he and John ended up connecting during interviews. But usually when you don't have, you know, tension. go in and at least gives you a chance to collaborate. It's funny that you bring up the Pete Carroll, John Schneider thing,

because around here for so long, you know, many people, and I would put myself into this category in group, think that the worst decision Snyder's maiden is 21 years was firing Marty Schottenheimer after one year when John Schneider was here as well. I have a story. Please. I remember going to Charger Training Camp at UCDen. Diego and La Jolla that next summer early on and seeing Marty.

And he came up to me and I said, hey, man, I said, I got to tell you, you know, when you were 0 and 5 and you bought your way back out of that, that was really impressive. And he said, oh, Michael, the only thing I was worried about was that somehow Dan wasn't going to fire me. Classic Martyism of all time. So Marty definitely did not want to say. Yeah. And it's too bad because after the O and 5th,

start with Tony Banks and Kent Graham at quarterback. They went eight and three the rest of the way. And the team really, that was one of the few times during the Snyder era where the era was clearly pointed upwards. You know, the story around here, of course, is that Dan essentially said with the other owners, we're not having enough fun. And Marty knew they weren't having enough fun because he was throwing all of them out of the building and doing it his way.

But what was funny just moments ago, and I get where you're, you're coming from, and I understand it, I think most reasonable people would say that this owner isn't intentionally trying to sabotage his own organization. There's nothing sinister about it, but, you know, the nice way of putting it is sort of that naivete has led to 21 years of unintended consequences. You know, that's like the nicest way to put it, because there have certainly been some moments, you know, that's one of them, you know, keeping Vinnie Serato along, you know, along for the ride for so long and Bruce as well that's led, you know, really to one of the most amazing erosions of a customer base that we've ever seen in business.

I mean, you know, you're an NFL guy. You know how loyal and rabid this consumer base, this fan base was. And in the last couple of years, it has eroded exponentially. And I think that, yeah, and I think that's why people are hopeful that this time, you know, whether it was Ron Rivera or Ronald McDonald. Whoever came in here just needed to have the control to do it their way. So I would ask you, lastly, do you think that Washington has finally gotten it right? I mean, I think so.

You know, I mean, I really believe in Ron, and I think they'll end up with, you know, something good going on on the personnel side. And, you know, he's not a guy who, you know, needed a year away because he was, burnt out. I mean, he's ready to roll. You know, it's a good time to get after it in the division, right? The Cowboys are in transition.

Similarly, the Giants just hired a guy that, you know, most fans have never heard of who presided over a position group for what it's worth that looked like one of the most flailing units in the NFL and the Patriots receivers. And, you know,

the Eagles look older and beat up right now. So I think it's there for the taking, but you know how these things go. You've got to be able to survive the emotional. All the peaks of valleys. But I do think Ron is one of those guys who's really, really good at that. I think he'll come every day. He'll be very consistent. Thank you so much for the time.

I really appreciate it. I'm glad we finally caught up. Kevin, thank you so much. That again, from January, 2020. I just thought it was interesting to go back. Yes, I'm going to try to get Mike Silver updated and on the show now that he is in town working for the football team. We will try to get that done in the next week or so. That's it for the day. Have a great weekend back on Monday.