The Kevin Sheehan Show - Aiyuk News + Jay Gruden

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Kevin opened with some Brandon Aiyuk news from The Athletic and then he got to the NCAA Tournament expansion to 76 along with the NBA's anti-tanking "Draft Lottery" proposal. Jay Gruden jumped on to talk Commanders' draft as well as the off-season in its entirety. Hall of Fame Chicago Bears Tackle Jimbo Covert joined Kevin to talk about his involvement in the "ALS 4000 Mile Coast to Coast Ride" and to take a trip back to the '80s to talk about his Bears teams and their match-ups against the Redskins.   Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link www.ThriveMarket.com/SHEEHAN for $20 off your first three orders plus you’ll get a FREE $60 gift. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show with me today. Jay Gruden, next segment, to talk about not only the draft, but Washington's entire offseason.

Following Jay, a 1980s Hall of Fame left tackle. I wish I was going to have Joe Jacoby on the show, but he's not in the Hall of Fame yet. But Jimbo Covert is in the Hall of Fame, and Jimbo Covert is involved with coast to coast for ALS. It's a 4,000-mile ride raising awareness and funding for ALS research. He'll join me in the final segment of today's show. We'll talk a lot about his 80s Bears teams and some of the matchups that they had against the Redskins. The show is presenting sponsor, as always, when donation, 8-6.

690 Nation and windownation.com if you need new windows. This from Nikki Javala and Matt Barrow's with the athletic this morning, talking about the Brandon Ayuk situation. Talking about Washington's interest in Brandon Ayuk, they write that the Washington commanders appear the likeliest landing spot for IUC if and when the 49ers sever ties with. them. Commander's GM Adam Peters was the 49ers vice president of player personnel when they drafted IUC, and IUC is especially close to quarterback Jaden Daniels, his former Arizona State teammate.

Multiple people with knowledge of the commander's thinking said the team believes IUC could be a boost to the roster, but that Washington can't rely on that given the circumstances. Should IUC become available, Washington would likely consider a short-term, highly incentivized contract. If IUC performs anything like the player in his prime, he'd be a significant boost to the commander's receiving corps, which currently lacks a proven playmaker opposite Terry McLoran. But if the experiment were to fall through, Washington wouldn't lose much by parting ways. And the commanders, those people said, as in multiple people with knowledge said, appears steadfast in their unwillingness to give up draft assets to acquire IUC.

Yes, of course. It's now reported that Washington is thinking this way, but this is the obvious way for any NFL team to think if they are interested in Brandon Ayyuk. It is not going to be an asset that you trade for because trading for him, A, you give up future picks for a player that you're not entirely sure about. B, you acquire his contract, which has a base salary of $27 million plus this upcoming season and close to $28 million in 2027. You're not acquiring that contract.

You're going to take him off waivers. He's going to choose to sign with you if you make him an offer because he will be an unrestricted free agent if he's waived. So he could sign with any team. This isn't like a waiver-wire claim for a much younger player. This is him becoming because he's more than four years in the league, an unrestricted free agent. And you're going to sign him to a one-year deal, $6, $7, $8, $9 million for a year, and the rest of it can be made by achieving certain milestones, incentives.

That's what you're going to do if you're going to bring, bring, and Iyuk to your team. I don't know that there's another way to do it safely. I mean, if you get win that there's a lot of competition and you feel comfortable with his physical health and mental stability, maybe only then, but I wouldn't do it that way. I wouldn't be thrilled as a fan if they were to do it that way. Part of the story written by Nikki Gibala and Matt Barrow's also speaks to what I've talked about a lot recently, which is people keep focusing on this June 1 date.

That's an insignificant date in this particular situation. He is a player that they have placed on that reserve left squad list where players aren't paid. You know, when he went AWOL and he stopped reporting to the facility, and he stopped reporting for what he was supposed to report to, which was, you know, ACL rehab checks, they put them on that list and they voided between $30 and $40 million of his contract. And as I've said many times, it's an odd circumstance. It's really without precedent, especially when you consider that $30 to $40 million, it's somewhere in that range. There have been multiple reports. That's why I'm saying between 30 and 40. I've seen it at 30. I've seen it at 40. I've

seen it at 33. I've seen it at 37. Whatever it is, it's in that general range. And no one's fighting for it. He's not fighting for it. His agent isn't fighting for it. His attorneys aren't fighting for it. And the NFL Players Association doesn't seem to be interested in fighting on his behalf for that much money. It's gone. He's never going to see it, apparently, again. but the 49ers do not owe him any money per his current contract and his current status on the reserve left squad list until September 1st. That's a key date because if they have to stroke a check to them, which they're not going to do, they'll release him the day before that check is due. So that's why I think there's a chance. It's conceivable that they keep them through the end of August.

Now, in this report that the story that Nikki Javala and Matt Barrows wrote, they wrote that practically speaking, the 49ers first OTAs practice on May 27th, so about a month from today, might be an unofficial marker for the 49ers. And the reason for that is they write Ayuk is well versed at making a spectacle of himself, even when he isn't practicing. He did that during his 2024 holden. And essentially, they write, maybe IUC's most effective move to get released is something that he's failed to do in recent, you know, vintage. And that is actually show up for work.

So if he were to show up on May 27th and create, you know, a bit of a headache, you know, the question's asked, and he's trying to participate, They're not letting him participate, however it would play out. Maybe that kind of scrutiny, maybe that kind of attention might force the 49ers or lead the 49ers to saying, you know what, let's just get him out here. But again, June 1st is not a significant date. If they release him, yes, post-June 1 designation, you get to take any sort of dead cap money and spread it over two years. years. You can't do that if you trade him pre-June 1. You can't take that post-June 1 designation.

But post-June 1st, we'll see if they decide to do something with him, but they don't have to do anything until they've got to pay him. And they don't have to pay him until September 1st. By the way, Ben Standig had a report this morning in his substack column. about Joanne Jennings. And the report goes like this. Washington has been in communication with Joanne Jennings' camp, according to a source close to the situation. For now, Washington's interaction appears to be due diligence rather than aggressive pursuit, close quote.

Look, I'm sure that they've been in communication with a lot of free agents. but this one's interesting because it always seemed like a decent fit, especially for the offense that we think we're going to see under David Blow. Juan Jennings apparently is asking for too much money, but we'll talk to Jake Rudin about Joanne Jennings because he loves Joanne Jennings. But if the money got to a point in which it was reasonable, put Joanne Jennings opposite Terry, Chigacon-Quote, tight end, you know, Antonio Williams in the slot or whomever ends up winning that position and call it a day.

Now, you're not getting the, you know, the true down-the-field threat, playmaking threat that a Brandon Ayuk would bring, a healthy Brandon Ayuk. But Joanne Jennings would be, I think, a solid addition to this roster. I saw something, and maybe you guys have seen this already. It's a video of Caleb on Chase on the Edge Pass Rusher that they signed in Free Agency from the Patriots. A video of a conversation on the day that Free Agency began, or I forget if he was signed in the first day or the third day or whatever it was. But it's a conversation between him and his agent. His agent is Mulegeta from Athletes First. He's got so many players in the league.

And the conversation essentially offers, you know, were coming in. And one of the offers was a three-year deal from the New Orleans Saints for $40 million, you know, 13.33 a year. And he took and chose Washington's one year, $11 million deal. And he did it because he believes that Washington, is a contender. Now, he also may believe one more really good season, and next year, as an unrestricted free agent, he can really ring the bell.

Three years, $40 million, you know, is certainly a deal that's better than one year $11 million, but he may believe that the one year 11 with Washington leads to a much bigger deal next year. The interesting part of him choosing essentially a, lesser deal with Washington than the deal with the Saints is, I believe the Saints are going to be a good football team. I think they were a good team at the end of last year. I think they won four out of their last five. I like their coaching staff. Kellan Moore is the head coach and the

offensive mind. Brandon Staley is the defensive coordinator. They've got good defensive talent. Tyler Shuck, I thought, really showed some promise. And they've got playmaking. I mean, Alave, they added Jordan Tyson in the draft. The tight end, Joanne Johnson's really good. They added Travis E.T.N. Although I think he wants it to be pronounced Travis A-chan, like the A-chan in Miami. They still have Alvin Camara. I like New Orleans' team.

I liked them at the end of last year and talked about them a little bit as a team that was really feisty all year long, really, and ended up winning six games in a division that was won. by a team with a losing record, Carolina with an eight and nine record. They tied with Tampa and Atlanta with eight and nine records, but won the tiebreaker. But I think the Saints actually could be a surprise team next year. All right. Two things that I want to talk about in a little bit of detail before we get to Jay Gruden. So the first is this.

The NCAA tournament apparently is going to expand next. year, as in in 2027, in March of 2027 to 76 teams. Pete Thammel from ESPN reported it yesterday that the NCAA is in the final steps in heading towards an expansion of both the men's and the women's tournament from 68 to 76 teams. The men's tournament is 68. I don't know if the women's tournament is 68. I'm assuming it is. Seventy-six. So we went to 68, eight, nine years ago, whenever that was from 64. 64, we were at from 85, you know, through the 2000s into the early 2010s. And now we're at 76. So before I tell you how I think it will work, because there wasn't a lot of discussion about how it would actually be scheduled in that first.

week of March Madness, but I think it's pretty easy to figure out based on the numbers. But I'm not in favor of this. Now, I'm sure when we get to next March, and there are a lot more games early in the week on Tuesday and Wednesday, I'll be excited to go home and watch those games. But I just think, unlike football, where the argument against a playoff or an expanded playoff was it would render the regular season meaningless. I never thought that. I thought it would actually add more import to the regular season. There would be more games that would matter because there would be at large bursts. You wouldn't be eliminated with one loss. And I think it's played out

that way. But in basketball, here's the problem. The regular season already is somewhat meaningless, or at least not as visible as it used to be. Part of that problem, is that the sport has really centered in on this one month of March, in part because the NFL Super Bowl goes through early February, and then free agency starts to gear up. And football just seems to mask everything. I enjoy the college basketball regular season when my team, Maryland, is good, but I didn't really watch anywhere near as much of the regular season this year

because Maryland wasn't good. and the actual viewership, although it was up this year, I think actually, in part because there were some really exciting freshman players throughout the country. But for the most part, for the last 10 to 15 years, college basketball ratings have been on the decline during the regular season. It has really been a huge one month of the year sport. And that one month is massive for college sports. It is a massive revenue generator for all of college athletics.

So the expansion, I'm sure they feel, will generate more revenue because there will be more games. That'll increase the TV money, et cetera. But I think it renders the regular season even less important than ever before. And I don't like the idea of adding, you know, eight teams that will, very likely come from the major conferences, and they will be teams that will be, you know, seven and 13 in conference play and 16 and 15 overall. You know, sometimes at the end of those seasons, when you're following your team,

you're ready for the season to end. Now, you know, I say that, and if Maryland is 17 and 15 and 9 and 11 in the Big 10, and in years past, that wouldn't have been good enough for a birth, But next year they're playing on a Tuesday night game and, you know, a 12 versus 12 game to face the five seed on Friday or on Thursday. I'll be into it, certainly. But I don't think it's the best thing for the game personally. Now, in terms of the way it will work, because this is my guess, I think the math is easy on how many games they're going to have to play before you get to the main draw of 64. You know, the Thursday, Friday, first round.

You know, the Tuesday, Wednesday here recently has been called the first four, four games, eight teams. Now you're going to have the first 12, because 24 teams are going to have to play to get an even sort of entry into the 64. If you take 76 and subtract 24, you're left with 52. 24 teams means 12 games. 12 winners, that gives you 64 when you add it to the 52. So 52 teams will not have to play on Tuesday or Wednesday. They'll be into the main draw, so to speak. But what it creates with

these 24 teams that won't get into that 64 team bracket, they'll have to earn their way in, is it creates 12 new basketball games or eight new basketball games because we've had four on Tuesday and Wednesday night. Anyway, we've had two on Tuesday night, two on Wednesday night. You know, two 16 versus 16 games, and then, you know, an 11 versus an 11 or a 12 versus 12 as the nightcap for Tuesday and Wednesday. Now you're going to have 12 games featuring 24 teams. You'll still have your 16s versus 16s, but the rest of them will more likely than not

be major conference teams. I'm not saying they will all be major conference teams. Miami of Ohio obviously made it as an at-large team into the first four this year after they got beat in the Mid-American Conference tournament. And they played a very exciting game that they won against SMU in the first four on that. I forget if it was the first night or the second night. But on Tuesday and Wednesday, you'll have six games each of those two days. My guess is you're not going to get any of those games during the day. The day thing on Thursday and Friday for the NCAA tournament, March Madness, is sacred.

The 64 team bracket sacred. You're not going to, you know, I don't think you will add to that. I don't think you're going to add day games and expand the bracket to 76 teams where you're picking teams on late Monday night or early Tuesday morning before the action starts. I still think it's going to be get your brackets in by Thursday. you know, when the first game begins, and you're just going to have more playing, you know, empty spots, you know, for a 12 seed playing a 5-seat or a 16 playing a 1 or an 11 playing a 6. Now, I think the way they'll do it on Tuesday and Wednesday, again, I'm guessing, but I think they'll steer clear of playing day games. The first day games will happen Thursday.

And you'll get six games Tuesday night, six games Wednesday night, two windows each night, an early window. So you'll have three games on three different networks, CBS, TNT, and True TV. And they'll tip off at 640 and 7 o'clock in 715. And then the second window will have games, you know, tipping off at 955, 1015, and 1030, something like that. And I think you'll get six each night. And look, by the time we get there, it'll be fun. It'll be great for betters to have all those games. You'll have, you know, not one game that you're watching. You'll have a window of three games in two windows, three games each.

I'm sure when we get there, it'll be fine. I just don't love the idea of a team like, you know, take this year, Indiana in the Big Ten, looked like a tournament team all season long. And then towards the end of the season, they lost like six out of their final. eight games, something like that, six out of their final seven. And they ended up being a nine and 11, sub-500 team in the Big Ten and 18 and 14 overall. They missed out on the tournament. And their fans had had it. You know, by the end of the year, they lost six out of eight, and they lost some games to some teams that they shouldn't have lost. I think they lost to Northwestern twice

down the stretch. But Indiana would have qualified for a 76 team field. as would have USC, more likely than not out of the Big Ten. They were 7 and 13 in league play, 18 and 14 overall. So that's the kind of thing that I'm not thrilled with, but you're going to end up getting. But look, by the time you get to, you know, Thursday, Friday, first and second round, it'll still be, I think, one of the great weekends of the year. The other thing that happened that was interesting yesterday, late day, is that the NBA introduced their anti-tanking lottery idea. It has not passed yet.

This is something that was reported on. And essentially, they call it the 3-2-1 anti-tanking draft lottery. here's the net of it. The net of it is it no longer benefits anybody to finish with one of the three worst records in the league. Because the teams that will have the best odds in the lottery will be the fourth worst team through the tenth worst team. They will get three lottery balls placed into the hopper with their names on it. the teams that finished with the fourth worst record through the 10th worst record. That's seven teams, all right?

16 teams total will now be in the lottery. The teams that finish in the bottom three will each get two lottery balls. So they will not have the best chance to getting the number one overall pick. Again, spots fourth worst through 10th worst will. But the bottom three teams along with the two nine, seeds and the two 10 seeds in the playing round will get two lottery balls each. And then the two teams that lose in the seven versus eight play in game, they'll get one lottery ball. The real takeaway from this is they're trying to create a situation where there are

equal odds for a lot of spots like seven teams with three lottery balls, seven. teams with two lottery balls, and they're really, you know, essentially taking away the true tanking to be horrible because finishing in the bottom three will not be beneficial. Your odds will be reduced. NBA playoffs last night, I have to say that the performance by Joelle Embed in the 76ers in Boston was pretty thrilling to watch, down three, one, six. seemingly done. They were, you know, almost a double-digit underdog. And Embeded, man, when he plays and he had an appendicitis, which is why he missed some of these early games, I mean, he really can be an absolute elite-level dominant player.

It's going to be interesting to see if the 76ers can force a seventh in deciding game with a game six win at home. Wembe Nama, great again. The Blazers are done. The Knicks routed the Hawks. And tonight you get the Lakers and Rockets and the Pistons trying to hang on down 3-1 as a one-seed against an eight-seed. You also get Raptors Cavs game five. All right, Jay Gruden, after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I introduced you recently to Thrive Market. I told you it's a product that I use that I think you should use two. Now I want to tell you why membership makes a lot of sense.

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And the membership pays for itself anyway with their discounts and sales. Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link, Thrivemarket.com slash Sheen, for $20 off your first three orders, plus you'll get a free $60 gift. This segment of the show brought to you by Windonation. you've got two days left in Wind Donations. The more you buy, the more you save sale. The more you buy, you could save up to 50% off.

Plus, get 0% financing for five years if you choose to finance the purchase. It all starts with an in-home estimate. It's free of charge. It'll be convenient for you. Call the schedule at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name and they'll take really good care of you. Joining me right now, the former head coach of the Washington Redskins, Jay Gruden, who makes a weekly Friday appearance on this podcast during football season,

and he will do it again when football season gets underway in September. I think we spoke shortly after Free Agency began, maybe after the first week when they signed a few players, but they've done a lot more since our last conversation, including draft six players over the weekend. I want to get your thoughts on that, but the offseason as a whole pre-draft with all of the players that they've added, especially to the defense, what do you think about what they've done?

I think it's been solid. I think they've addressed a lot of the needs. They've got some experience and got the young guys to fill in. They've addressed some of their offensive needs as well. So I think it's been a solid offseason. I think they are put in positions along with Jayden State. selfie to compete for the NFC final, without a doubt.

Who do you like a lot versus who you don't like a lot? Not draft, just in terms of the players they added. I mean, defensively, Owey, Chanel, you know, Chaseon, Nick Cross, Amick Robertson, they brought Tim Settle back. You know,

offensively, they added Chigacanquo from Tennessee. They brought Diami back. Van Jefferson, Rashad White. Are there any players that they've added here in the offseason that you really feel good about, and are there any that you're lukewarm on? Well, I love the draft pick.

Sonny style is a monster. You know, this is a guy that can play all types of linebacker. He can play a nickel-subs cover receiver of tight ends and running backs. He can play the A&B gaps with physicality. He's a guy that I expect to have over 150, 160 tackles when it's all sudden done and have that impact on defense right there in the middle is huge. And then Tim Settle coming back. add a little depth with pain and Ken Law is good.

O.A., you know, I'm not a huge fan of a guy that has a limited-sex production, really, but he's a solid player. He's been a solid player for some time there. I like Nick Cross. I like Amic Robertson, too, on defense. I think he's a little guy, but he plays his ass off, man. This guy's a good player. He can play Nick. He played a little bit outside at Detroit. I like him. I like Witherspoon for some depth over there at corner, just in case Trey almost doesn't get it done. Amos, I think Robert Wetherspoon can do some good things.

So defensively, I think they did good things. Offensively, I'm not a huge man on the tight end. They added, but he's a productive player at Tennessee. Rashad White, Jerome Ford, marginal back's pretty good. I just wish they had some more choose. They added to the offensive side of the ball. They don't have any big home run hitters other than Terry.

I think that's what they need to find. You know, Deaum Brown's a good ad. Traylon Burks has been good for them last year, but, you know, he's had an up-and-down career. Luke hasn't really done anything. I like Antonio Williams. They added. He's more of a slot player, but I feel like they have Williams, Lane, and McCaffer are kind of the same guy. They're inside players, and they're all punt returners. So one of those guys have to emerge as the number one guy. So they do some good

things, but I still need. I need some more juice on offense, somebody that has some big play ability other than Jaden and Terry. Well, there's a chance that could be coming in the form of Brandon Ayuk. What do you think about adding him? I think that'd be big. I think that's just what they need. They need another guy. If they want to go too tight as, that's the opposite at Terry. Right now, who is it? Is it Diami? Is it McCaffrey? Is it Berks? I don't know who it is. I think they need that guy. I really do. I think that would be a much needed addition to this offense. What would concern you about Iyuk at this point? How would you approach it? Or how would you recommend to just say, let's just say if you guys were all back together,

what would you recommend to Bruce about how to go about adding Brandon Ayuk? I think the most important things is health. And that's the trainer has to get with the coach and staff and make sure that this is a guy that can be healthy and play to the level that he's played at. You know, if you've got an injury and it's not looking good, it's upside, not there, then we wouldn't take a chance on him. But if he's cleared all the medical issues, then I think there's really no issues we have to deal with. He played with Jade, for God's sake. The GM had him in San Francisco. They should know him very well. So I would have a long talk with Jayden and this is a guy that can help our football team and have a long talk of the trainers, this guy healthy. And if so, then that's green

light this. I've got to get him in here. So it looks like the 49ers aren't in a rush to release him. They want to trade for him. I can't imagine. I would assume that you feel the same way that no one's going to take on his current contract via a trade. They're going to wait for him to get released. You agree with that? Yeah, for sure. I think that's a no-brainer. And I think San Francisco will have to cut ties with them eventually. They're going to try to get what they can, maybe a third or force, but you're right, the contract's probably too high right now. Everybody knows that, and Sam Fran's kind of got their hands tied behind their back, and they're going to have to make a move.

They don't have to pay him, according to some of the reporting, anything until September 1. I mean, if they are really, you know, at this point, upset about the way things went, not worried about what's best for him, not trying to help anybody else, they could conceivably wait until August 31st before releasing him. Would you have a cutoff date for acquiring him and getting him into your building? And if you pass that date, you've got to look elsewhere. I think it depends on what else is out there. Is there another player of his caliber that you might be able to add, which I'm not too sure.

Stefan Diggs is out there. Yeah, somebody like that. And I think you'd have to really make a decision, hey, should we go get Stefan Diggs and not have this problem, wait and see what the San Francisco is going to do? you've got to try to add. I just think that's one of the most clarings need to have on this team right now is another wide receiver that can make some plays opposite Terry. They have this slot guy that can help you with the addition of Antonio and obviously Luke and probably Jalen, but they need another outside guy. And whoever that is, they better address it quickly. So there would be a date in which it would be too late after. Like is that the beginning of training camp?

When is it specifically for you? I'd say beginning of training camp would be fine. You know, I think this guy's, an experienced player, and I think he can learn a system quickly. If as long as you get him in their training camp, just make sure he's healthy and can run and be that number two opposite Terry, then I think that it would be a great addition right around training camp would be the ideal time, or the ideal cutoff time, I would say. The Terry people hate when I say things like what I'm going to ask you and say to you, but if they got the Brandon Ayuk from the end of 2023, he'd be the number one receiver on this

team, in my opinion. What do you say to that? I'd say 1A, 1B. You know, I think when you have two great receivers, you know, I don't really think it matters. You know, you look at some of the teams with two really good, Jamar, Chasing T. Higgins. We know Jammar is number one, but T. Higgins makes enough plays where he's considered number one as well. He gets paid like a number one. So having two great receivers is not an issue.

Who cares who's one and two. I think it's 1A and 1B, quite frankly, if you have Terry and Brandon, because both of them can hurt you a lot of different ways. if they did acquire Brandon Ayuk, let's say at the latest possible date, let's just say the 49ers just wanted to, you know, wait as long as they could. And he got acquired via waivers, you know, as a free agent on September 1st. When would he be able to be up to speed and play at a high level? How long would it take at that point in the account?

I think it'd try to take them a week to 10 days, really. This guy puts his effort into learning it formations and motions and all that stuff, which he's a smart guy. He played for a pretty good offensive coordinator and Kyle Shanahan. He had no problems learning that, so I don't think you'd have a problem. And, you know, with a new addition to David Blow's offense, I think they'll do a lot of under-center stuff, or I think it'd be pretty simple for a receiver to learn.

You know, one of the receivers that's still out there as a free agent is one of your favorites. I mean, you have called him the best blocking wide receiver that you've ever seen. Apparently he's just asked for too much money, Juan Jennings. But would he be, is he the juice that you'd be looking for? Or just a really good starting opposite receiver to Terry in the run game and elsewhere? Yeah, I don't think he's as polished as a receiver as Brandon and I. He's more of an all-around guy that can really block and run out to the catch and gives you some size advantage.

He's just a big, good football player. You know what I mean? He's done a lot of good things in his career. He brings us physicality to your offense. You know, it's kind of weird to say a receiver can do that, but he does that. And he'll help out Rashad White and obviously Bill Merritt and Barrett and Jerome Ford

and these guys in the running game. They'll help out Jaden, too, with the tough catches between the numbers. So he'd be a good addition as well, but I think from a receiver standpoint, when you really want to run the route tree, I think Brandon I, you, fits that bill a lot better.

Why aren't you a fan of Conquo, Chig? I don't know. I don't know if he's a great blocker. He's not a great receiver. He's okay at everything. You know, he's just, I don't know, he's just a guy to me. But he's better than, you know, the alternative, which is Bates, because Bates doesn't really run routes.

Bates is a good blocker. And obviously, Ben Samaat's been kind of a disappointment because he's had a lot of opportunities in training camps and practices and for them to acquire a guy like Chig is concerning for me for Benson's progress. So he's better than the alternative. a tough position to find. You know, there's really only a handful of really, really good tight ends that can do both in the blocking game and the receiving game. I just think Chigs down the line a little bit, probably mid-packed, but he's a good ad. Do you think

it's concerning that Nick Allegretti right now is the number one center? A little bit, and I think that's another concern I have. I think the interior part of the offensive line, I think they have good players. You know, I think Laramie Tumple's obviously a great player, but other than that, you know, kind of, kind of he's got to get a lot better. That's for sure. He's got to play stronger. He's got Al Grety, you got Paul, you get the draft pick, Gublin. You got Andrew Wiley, he's got some experience. Trent Scott's got some experience. How that line gills is going to be, how that offense is going to tick.

One more marquee player on offense, and then how the offensive line plays will be critical. They're all decent players, but moving Algrady to center, let's see how he does. I'm sure he can do it, but, you know, jury's still out. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll continue with Jay on the other side talking about Sunny Stiles and some of the draft picks. We'll get to that after these words from a few of our sponsors. We continue with Jay Gruden. I didn't have a chance to talk to you before the draft. What were you hoping for heading into the first round for Washington at 7? If style was there, I was hoping they get styles, to be honest with you. I love the fact that Caleb Downs is a great player.

I think he would have been a great addition as well. I think that probably was the discussion they had. add. Do we go downs? Do we go styles? But having a captain of your defense in the middle, there's not a lot of middle linebackers anymore. They can do what styles can do. Play in the passing game, run sideline to sideline, and play physical in the A&B gap. He's a guy that is a rare commodity, and to get him, he's going to be a captain

of your defense. He's a captain at Ohio State. You can be the captain your defense for the next seven, eight, ten years. And losing Bobby Wagner, obviously, you know, if they don't draft him, they probably would have to Reese by Bobby Wagner. He's leaking oil. He's still a good player. Had 150 tackles. But this guy's different. This guy's a hell of a lot faster. It can cover a lot more ground and still play physical. If he had been picked earlier, who was number two for you? Caleb Dowell, yeah, for sure. He's a guy that can move all over the place.

You know, that piece on defense where you can play him in so many different locations has been very successful at Baltimore and obviously Seattle with the guys that they have. having that player is very important on defense. That's who I would have gone with next. Post-draft, is there a player and they fit with a team that you're really high on? Anywhere in the draft? Oh, you know, I just, I think the draft was not that strong this year, personally, and I didn't do as much work as I have in the past.

You know, I played a lot more golf, studied all these staff players. Yes, I know. I just, you know, I wasn't really... sold on the receiver from Ohio State, the Tennessee took at four. I think this is a late round player. A late first round player. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Jim going to four kind of tells you that, you know, the draft isn't that strong, quite frankly, but who knows? I mean, we'll see. I like the past rush of Texas Tech. You know, the top five, six guys with the top five or six guys for reason. I'm surprised at the Rams picked Simpson at 13, but other than that,

you know, I think it's wait and see. That's the way the draft always is. Everybody's high on the guys that they take, and then three or four years later, they're all gone. You know, so we'll see how they do. I mean, it's so true. I mean, I've talked so much about this, and I do it every year. We obsess so much as football fans over something in which the experts, people like you, get it wrong two out of three times. And the one that you...

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Maybe one of it. Well, overall, other than you, and you're super keen of... evaluating talent I, which by the way, Scott McLuhan once said, the best coach evaluating talent that I ever worked with was Jay Gruden. But for the most part, you know, it's a, you know, 40% is a really good hit rate when you look back on a draft three years after it happened. And like you said, sometimes the four out of ten that hit, they hit with another team.

It's not the team that drafted them. Yeah, exactly. That's why I think what they did in free agencies, kind of big, you know, adding what they added with, you know, the defensive players that they added, I think it's a safe call, and hopefully some of these young guys. They didn't have a lot of draft picks anyway, but they had to address a lot of issues in free agency, which they did. So it'll be interesting to see how this team plays out, but I still think there's some weakness

they have to address, and they really have to keep a close eye on the interior of the offensive line and the right tackle and make sure he's progressing. So you're pricing out Seven Woods more in terms of research than the draft over the last month or whatever the club was. I did want to ask you, because I don't think we talked about him the last time we spoke or at any time during the season. Do you like Mendoza?

Yeah, I like his upside. Obviously, he's a big kid that can really grow it. I'd be a little nervous if I had to start him, year one, game one. I think he's a guy he'd want to have, like, to be a backup for a year or two. Let him have time to really let this offense sink in, the protection plan, the footwork, all that stuff, the routes, the route trees,

the route combinations, the audibles. That's a lot for a kid like that. You know, a lot of times, you know, these athletic quarterbacks come in with his own reads and the RPO's. It's really all he did at, not his own reads, but the RPO's, he did a ton of those at Indiana, right? Either hand off the inside zone or if it's a single guy out there, just throw the hitch.

He did a lot of that. He's got a lot of work to do when it comes to mental progression, and I'd love to see him sit for a year or two behind Kirk and let Kirk play and let him develop. I think that's the way they should go. but if he has a great training camp and picks up the system and is winging it and practice them, he'll start. All right.

Out of the rest of Washington's picks, you already said Antonio Williams is an inside guy. But between the edge pass rusher, Tennessee, the running back from Penn State, K. Tron Allen, the center, the quarterback, was there anything that stood out about any of those players good or bad? No, I think they already got Ketron Allen in the building with Rashad White and Merritt and drone forward. I think he's that type of guy. I don't think he's really going to hurt Sean third down.

he's more of a plotter between the tackles. You know, Google in the center. He's going to come in and compete probably with Al Grady maybe. I don't know. The past rusher was very, had hardly any production. You know, I tried to watch him on film and pull up his sack. I couldn't find any. So I know he's got the length and he's got to get off that people like,

but production of sack production is not there for me. So not really excited about any other guys. We'll see how they do, though, but I am very excited about Sunny style. I'm excited about Antonio Williams. This guy can really run after the catch. We've got strong hands. he's a good player. Those two picks, I think, were very, very good. Other than that, the quarterback played in the hula bowl, I think, against me, and he didn't really jump off the field.

Right. He wasn't too excited to me, but we'll see. You liked a receiver. I think I saw you tweet out. You liked one of the receivers that they signed as an undrafted free agent. This guy, Chris Hilton, man, he didn't have, he only, he didn't play much at LSU's. I don't know why. You know, I don't know the whole story about him. I know I had him at practice every day, and I had him in the game and all that stuff, and this guy can run. He ran 4-4 at the combine. He's long. He can eat up ground in a hurry. He's got good hands.

I think they're going to look at this guy in training. How the hell of this guy only have 12 or 13 catches LSU? This guy is a good player. I might be missing something, but I think this guy is going to make the team. I really do. All right. Last question. You've told me many times before that when you got here, the guy that you had no idea,

that you had no idea was as good as he was, was Jordan Reed. But when you go back and think about all of the rookie mini camps, you were involved in after drafts with drafted players, undrafted, free agents, et cetera. And they've got their rookie minicamp coming up, I think, in a week and a half. Is there a player that during a rookie minicamp, you remember more than any just sticking out, and you're like, this guy is going to be on my roster? Terry, for sure. We picked him in a third round, but third round receivers, there's no, you know,

there's no guarantee that these guys are going to have an impact on your team right away. right when he walked in on the first couple routes he ran and were like, this guy's going to be a stud. He's just so explosive off the line, and he was so smart and detailed. Yeah, we knew right away. That's why we kind of held him out in training camp and preseason games and unleashed him against Philadelphia. Yeah, for sure.

Terry was the one. Yeah, you really did. You hit him that whole preseason because that opener against Philadelphia was a surprise. You were a big fan of Geis, too, right? Love Darius. Love them. I think he would have been one of the better backs on the National Football League,

just those two unfortunate knee injuries, which I would have never thought if he was going to get hurt, it would have been a shoulder because he ran to the low to the ground and just plowed into everybody and so strong. I would never thought it would be his knees because he was so strong. His lower body was so strong. Just shocking, just unfortunate, terrible, terrible for him because he would have had a great NFL career.

Thanks for doing this. Hit him well today. I'll talk to you later. Yeah, thanks. Hey, Gruden, everybody. Up next, a Hall of Fame left tackle from the 80s after these words from a few of our sponsors. Quick favor to ask if you haven't rated or reviewed this podcast and you don't mind doing it. It's really helpful for me. And for everybody associated with the podcast, those that are selling the advertising in particular, it just helps. Advertisers want to see positive ratings and reviews and a lot of them. And many of you have done it.

and I really appreciate it. If you haven't done it, it really only takes a few seconds to just click on the star count. You can give us up to five stars if you think the show deserves it. That's obviously the best case for us. You can write if you don't mind a quick one to two sentence review on Apple. And following this podcast, just hit the plus button or the follow button. That's big for us as well. Joining me right now is a Hall of Fame left tackle from the 1980s.

Jimbo covert played eight years for the Chicago Bears, a member of the incredible 85 champion bears. Jimbo's involved with coast to coast for ALS. It's a 4,000 mile ride raising awareness and funding for ALS research. You can go to coast to coast for ALS.org and donate now to try to find a cure for this dreadful disease. Jimbo is with me and we'll find out more details about this 4,000 mile ride, which, by the way, a very good friend of mine is on this ride as we speak. It's a great cause. But I want to start with this. You were a part of some incredible University of Pittsburgh teams. Dan Marino was the quarterback in the offensive line at one point included you, Russ Grimm, and Mark May. I mean, did Marino ever get touched? Well, not too much.

And Kevin, he gets rid of the ball pretty quick, but I think he had a lot to do with giving him the opportunity to pick out a receiver and let it fly. So he's pretty special quarterback who's great to have him, you know, behind us. But, you know, we had a great line coach at Joe Moore, who is, you know, they have the award now, the Joe Moore Award, which is for the outstanding, you know, outstanding, you know, offensive line in college football, not just a particular player. And, you know, I know Russ felt about Joe as well. So he was the guy that kind of set the tone and was such a great coach.

And I don't know how many guys he got to the NFL. I think someone like 45 guys. Crazy. He played for him. And, you know, at Temple, Notre Dame and Pitt. So, I mean, pretty incredible line coach. Yeah. And those pit teams are really, I think, you can correct.

me if I'm wrong, but those are the greatest pit teams of, you know, probably in program history, a national championship team and a contender for a couple of years. And then, you know, you came out in the 83 draft, which is still all time for the production of Hall of Famers, seven Hall of Famers in the first round of that 83 draft, which was known as the quarterback draft with, you know, Elway and Blackledge and Kelly, Eason, Ken O'Brien. and then finally your teammate, college teammate, Dan Marino. You went number six overall. An amazing class.

And you join a team that's on the rise in the Bears. When did you have a sense that you guys were going to win a title with Didka and Buddy Ryan in the group that you had? Did you know it from your rookie year? Because 84 was really that first step forward in terms of the playoffs and a playoff win. Yeah, you're right about that, Kevin. I think 83, no. I mean, when I first got there, we weren't very good at the beginning of the year. I mean, we were still trying to find our way.

You know, was McMahon's real first full-time year as a starter. I mean, he started his rookie, but that was a strike year. Yeah. 82 was, yeah. So it was kind of abbreviated, and so he didn't get a full season. And so we were just trying to try and trying to find our way. And I think we lost our first five out of seven games. or something like that, something crazy.

But then we kind of started to find ourselves a little bit, and I think we won six out of our last eight. I can't remember exactly what it was, but we finished eight and eight that year, which was, believe me, was a miracle for that team as the way we started. And then, you know, as you said, the next year, I think we started to find our footing,

and you can see the difference. And even though McMahon was hurt halfway through the year, we managed to put it together with a bunch of different quarterbacks and still got to the NFTTA, championship game. Although we lost, I think that really set the tone for the next year. Yeah, you could really see it coming as an NFL fan, the 84 Bears. It was a team that really started to play well. And we here in Washington actually saw it up close and personal because the first playoff win for those 80s Bears was at RFK Stadium following the 84 season in the

divisional round before you guys went on the following week and lost against the 49ers at Candlestick in the NFC Championship game. But I wanted to get your memories of that game because the skins were, you know, a dominant team there for a few years. They won the Super Bowl in 82. They were the NFC champs and the Super Bowl runner-ups in 83. And they were the NFC East champs again in 84. And they were a big favorite that day at RFK.

They were supposed to win that game. And I just remember Joe Thysman, I think he got sacked seven or eight times. in that game, but it was a close game. Take me back to that day. What are your memories of the Bears' first playoff win of that era? It was at RFK. Well, I think we were ready. I mean, we went down there ready, and, you know, I think the skins might have just maybe underestimated us a bit, especially on offense. And, you know, even though Steve Ford was yours, our backup, who was a real quality player as well, we put together some good drives. But our defense put us in such great position for most of the day. And, you know, we paid off for us. And I think you could see that

in some of the drives we put together and some big plays, too, as well on offense. But our defense played so great that day. And, you know, I think that's really what they're going into RFK back in those days, it wasn't easy. And, you know, in the regular season, but then, especially in the playoffs, it wasn't easy. And it was a good win for us. Yeah, it was. And that 84 experience included in that. winning at RFK in the postseason against the Redskins set the stage for what came next. And what came next? The 85 Chicago Bears.

For my money, Jimbo, in my lifetime of watching NFL football, that's the single most dominant season by a team that I've ever seen. You've been told that, I'm sure, tens of thousands of times. And I'll be another one to ask you about those 85 bears, which just had, I think, the greatest defense in the history of the game. Certainly, it's a top two or three defense of all time. In my lifetime, I think it's the best I've ever seen. So just take me back to 85 and just give me your memories,

because I'm sure you never get asked to do this about those 85 bears. Well, I mean, you're exactly right. Excuse me, our defense was very dominant. And, you know, I just remember watching it from the sidelines. And it was pretty amazing, you know, seeing what those guys were able to accomplish. But I think what people really forget about that, Kevin, is that, you know, we led the league in rushing, we led the league in time possession, we were second in the league in scoring, we led the league in first downs. That makes your defense pretty good. And people don't really remember that when they talk about the 85 bears.

You always want to talk about the defense, which they should, right? because they were so great, but they played on, a lot of times they played on the short field, a lot of times they, you know, they didn't play because we always led the league in time possession, and we led to league in, or we led to in most games in time possession.

So when you get that kind of combination of a great running game, and you can still score some points and you let your defense go, that's, you know, that's very complimentary, and I think that's what that team was, very complimentary of each other, and it showed up most of the year. Does it bother you guys?

on the offensive side of the ball that the first thing NFL fans think of when they think of the 85 bears, is that defense? I don't think it bothers us because they were so great, and you're right, but people don't think about just look at the stats. If you look at the stats, the stats don't lie. So if you lead the league in rushing, right, you lead the league in time of possession, you're second in the league in scoring, second in the league, it's scoring. not in the conference.

You lead the league in first out. I mean, just think about what that does for a defense, but nobody really thinks about that because the defense is so dominant. And that's fine. You know, I mean, it is what it is, but Chicago has always been known for defense, right? They had an old middle linebacker.

You had Dick Bucke's. You have Mike Singletary. You had Bill George. It's always been known as a defensive town. So you really weren't going to get that kind of recognition. But at the end of the day, we won a Super Bowl, and that's all it counts. I mean, there was that one night, you know, in the Orange Bowl against Miami, perfect record on the line. And your former college teammate lit up that defense,

which is still kind of a remarkable thing after watching you guys that entire year that that happened. Give me 30 to 60 seconds on that night in Miami late in December of 85. Well, we were practicing in Atlanta then because our field behind Halifahou is just a quagmire of mud. So they sent us down to Atlanta, and we were kind of practiced in afternoons and mornings with the Falcons in that facility down there. And I remember Buddy Ryan coming up behind me, and he said, we're going to blitz your pal, your buddy, and knock him on his butt. And I said, you do that? He's going to kill you. He's going to kill you because I've seen it.

And, you know, Buddy actually, if he goes to talk to a defensive guys, Buddy refused to play nickel. He wouldn't play five defensive back. Right. The best quarterback in the league. Plus, you had, you know, five, four, five guys. I mean, you had dupor, you had Clayton, you get that more. They all could get open on anybody. And when you put that

combination together, and you're only playing four defensive backs, you think you're going to get to the quarterback, and that was our kind of a, you know, our recipe all year, right? Get to the quarterback, you're not going to do that. And then they had the moving pocket a little bit. They got them out of the pocket. And they had a great game

They had a super great game plan. But when I look at that game, I say it's the best thing I've ever happened, one of the last, because we went down there, we thought we were going to kick the hell out of Miami. We really did. And when we got beat, it was like, okay, this isn't going to be easy. I mean, we're going to have to work at this. People aren't going to give this thing to you. You're going to have to play some football.

And that's what happened. And I think that really helped us later on the year to refocus. And we ran the table after that. Yeah, and none of those playoff games were close against the Giants, Rams, and then against the Patriots in the Super Bowl. You know, I kind of consider that decade to be, you know, one of the best ever in the history of the league, especially for the NFC teams.

And the skins had kind of these many rivalries with teams outside their division. The NFC East was loaded, obviously, but they played the 49ers multiple times in the postseason over the Gibbs era. And, you know, we talked about the first playoff game. There were two more playoff game. and several big-time regular season games. It seemed like every year the Skins and the Bears were a highlighted game on the NFL schedule, but two times at Soldier Field, Washington went in there and beat the Bears.

The first year in 86, Flutie was the quarterback. McMahon had gotten hurt. And then the next year was a game Jimbo that includes probably a top five play in Skins' franchise history, Darrell Green's punt return at Frid Soldier Field to give the skins the lead and win that game. But what do you remember about the games against the Redskins in the 80s? Well, I think, you know, that 86 team was a good football team. It's just our quarterback that hurt. Exactly.

Yep. And so, you know, Doug Flutty, excuse me, Doug Flutie was not ready to play that game, in my opinion. and, you know, I think Mike thought he could get out of the pocket and make some things happen, but he didn't really even understand our offense. I don't blame him for that. I don't think you really understood our offense that well. And, you know, and Washington was a good defense. They're really good defense.

So we just couldn't run the ball. I mean, we had to throw the ball. And so that really changed a lot of stuff. But you got to remember that year we played with a bunch of different quarterbacks after McBan got hurt, and we were 14 and 2. Yeah. I mean, we were a 50-yard field goal away when the Rams beat us on Monday night from being 15-1, two years in a row. No one's ever done that.

And we did it with like four or five different quarterbacks. So that was a heartbreaker for us because we really had a chance. If Jim would have stayed healthy, I think we could have won two Super Bowls in a row because of that. And then that 87 game, I mean, that game was a close game until Darrell kind of, you know, ran that punt back, and that was a heartbreaker for us. But, you know, we're still pretty close to the end, and then, you know, we end up getting B. We fumbled the ball down towards the end up. That was tough. But those are great games against I mean, I played against Dexter Manley. I had to make sure I was playing well, and he's a great

player. And for me, you know, they were always a challenge, right? That defensive line was really good. And so we had to make sure our offensive line was playing well. So, you know, your names come up in a lot of conversations over the last couple of years, and I'll tell you why. Joe Jacoby, who is, you know, near and dear to everybody's hearts in D.C., you know, he's a three-time world champion. He was in all 80s, you know, tackle. You were as well.

You're in the Hall of Fame. Jake was certainly one of the best, along with you and a few others during that time. he's not in the Hall of Fame, and I think a lot of us believe that he deserves it, as much as Russ Grimm deserved to get in, from maybe the most famous in terms of titles or labels, offensive lines in NFL history, the 80s and 90s, skins, hogs.

What do you think about Jake's candidacy for the Hall of Fame and the fact that he hasn't gotten in yet? Well, I mean, he definitely deserves to be in. and it was a great player. So just the whole process and the whole deal to get in the Hall of Fame is extremely difficult. And I waited for a long time as well, and it was in my second year as a senior is when I got in. And I just think it was fortuitous because I think the year before I was one of the senior candidates

and I didn't make it, but I was in the room, right? And so they were discussing me, and then the next year was a centennial class. So I think for me, it was just happened to be, you know, at the right place at the right time. And so, you know, and Joe played a couple more years than I did, so he wasn't, he was still a modern era candidate then. And that kind of hurt him, right?

But if you go back and look at the 80s, you know, you had Joe, you had Gary Zerman, you, Lomas Brown, Mike Ken, you know, Jackie Slater. I mean, all those guys made the Pro Bowl at one time or another in the 80s. Yeah. I mean, go back and think about those guys, right? So at one time or another, one of those guys made the Proble. So they were, you take votes away from each other, right?

And there's only going to be three guys. And then if you look at the ASC, it was more Anthony Munoz and who. Right? Yeah, no, exactly. Right? I mean, maybe I'm wrong about that. I mean, I'm sure there were some other guys. No, Munoz was an absolute guy.

Yeah, Munoz was the absolute lock from that decade in terms of the tackles, right? Sure, sure, sure. But I'm saying as far as other. No, no depth like the NFC head. Right. Yes, correct. Right, the NFC head. So what happens is, you know, there's just a lot of names there, right?

And if you think about that, you know, Gary's in the Hall of Fame, Jackie's in the Hall of Fame. Is Mike Ken deserved to be a whole thing? Yes, I think so. And I think Wilmus Brown does as well. So you start thinking about that, and it's just a huge competition. And like I said, I was just extremely fortunate and thankful that it just happened the way it did. If it happens a different way, you know, maybe I'm not in the Hall of Fame. So, I mean, that's how difficult it is to get in.

But does Joey Jacoby deserve to be in Hall of Fame? Absolutely. Absolutely. you know it's just hopefully his time will come when when it happens like I said when you know circumstances are in his favor and that's kind of what happened with me so let's let's get into the present what do you think of Caleb Williams and the current team in Chicago well we finally got a quarterback and a guy that can help us go to the next level this kid's special I mean when you look at him and just the difference that he's made over a year and just his maturity, I think,

has been incredible. But I also think what happened is the year before, I think he gave up like 68 sacks or some god-awful number, something like that. And I remember in 16 games, one time we gave up like 24 sacks. I mean, just think of the difference with that, right? And so 17 games give up that many sacks, but, you know, they built that offensive line around them. And so, you know, you had a couple good pro-bow, all pro-caliable, palpable players around him, and you can see the difference. So they cut those sacks down

in more than half, and he got some maturity, and they got some kids for him to throw to. And now the next thing you know, that's a recipe for, you know, him being successful. And then he get Ben Johnson as an offensive coach. And so I think all of those things got him to where he is, and only a second year. You're going to see some incredible things from the kid. And I think he throws better on the run than he does in pocket. Yeah. His accuracy is incredible.

So I think you're going to see this player, this Caleb Williams, this kid, he's going to be a special player for a long time. Yeah, it's a brutal division. But, man, some of those games last year, some of the plays in which basically he went backwards 30 yards and then through 60 yards were thrilling. including the game-tying touchdown in the playoff game against the Rams. Real quickly, before we get to why you're here,

give me the player, the tackle in the game today that you really enjoy watching. That's a really good question. There's so many really good players out there. I think an old-school guy that I don't know if he's going to come back or what the story with him is. I think Lane Johnson's a really good player. I think he's played for a long time. He's a good pass, really good pass protector,

blocks for the run really well. So he's a really good player. I think the kid from Detroit, Penae Seul, yeah. Yeah, he's a really good player as well. I think Darnell Wright, this right tackle for the bear, is going to be a great player. two. I mean, he's still, you know, a young kid. He's only, there's only, I think, third year,

and he's shown some really good potential. So there's a lot of good players. I mean, there's some tough guys in the league. There's a lot of good players out there. And, you know, playing left tackles are the easiest position in the world to play, you know. So that's a difficult thing. And so playing left tackle in the league, I think, especially now with a lot of these dead guys, you know, when Joe and I were in the league, you played against the guy that played, know, 60, 70 snaps. Every once in a while they bring in a pass rusher. But you play against the guy all the time.

Now you get a guy, you know, your specialist coming in playing 20 snaps. Yeah. And they're fresh. And you're on turf. And these kids can run four or five and you're going backwards. Yeah. Right. So playing offensive line, especially tackle in this league is not an easy proposition. So they have to be great athletes.

And that's what you're seeing today. You know, with Jake's name being brought up by me and, and then you again there. I think about another left tackle that played for this team, and actually Jake ended up moving to right tackle there for a little bit. But Jim Lachey may have been the most talented lineman to play for our franchise, and one of the most talented in the game back then. Do you agree?

Yeah, great feet. Yeah, really good feet. I think, you know, I got hurt that year in 88 and went back and had back surgery and missed the first half of the season and then came back and, you know, and played like last day games and we made it to the NSC championship game, got beat by San Francisco. But they were looking at the Bears were thinking about trying to trade for him because, you know, what is such a great player he was, but it was very difficult, you know, maybe they didn't have a capital or draft capital or whatever they were looking for.

But he ended up there. And, you know, I think that's another bad rap that, you know, maybe Jake gets because they think, well, maybe if he was, if he, he should have made stated left. And since he got pushed to right, right, it was because, you know, that Lachey was a better player. I don't agree with that. Yeah. I just think you're trying to put the best five guys out there, right? And so you got to find a place for him.

I mean, just traded for the guy, right? So. They traded a quarterback. Jay Schrader was dealt for Jim Lachey straight up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a bad route to Jake unfairly. get. He should not get that because, you know, one of the premier lift tackles of the 80s. I mean, he shouldn't get that wrap. And I think that was an unfair comparison. So tell us about coast to coast for ALS.

Well, I've been on the Packard board at John Hopkins. It's a Packer Board for ALS research at Johns Hopkins. I've been on there for quite some time, almost seven or eight years now. because I'm so interested. It was way before Steve McMichael got diagnosed with the ALS. I just kind of feel like there's a real correlation, a real connection between concussions and ALS and Parkinson's and other neurological diseases. And that's just my opinion.

And I think some of the things that you see maybe more anecdotically, but I think you're going to see some of that. you know, a science that might come out is, there is, especially in football players and, and, you know, combat veterans that see that. And so it's just really interested me. So they got me involved in that and, and then, you know, just trying to help them raise awareness and therapies and, you know, and trying to find a cure for this dreadful disease, right? ALS. So I got involved with them, and then, you know, this hill coast to coast thing is really kind of cool. You know, you talk about going a 4,000-mile bike ride, starting on the West Coast and finishing up in the East Coast,

and they're trying to get me on a bike in Chicago. I don't know if that's going to happen. I haven't been on a bike since I was riding my Schwinn Continental up and down the hills in Pittsburgh, trying to get ready for camp. Right. And yeah, and so we'll see. But it's such a great cause, and they're going to have the ability to raise more awareness for ALS, raise money for ALS, and hopefully one day Kevin find a cure for this season.

Hopefully that's where this thing is going. Coast to coast for the number for ALS.org. There's a big donate now button in the right upper corner. Yeah, it's a dreadful disease and a lot of people making a long journey coast to coast to raise awareness and raise money for it. Jimbo, thank you so much. Really enjoyed it and appreciated it. Yep, Kevin, you bet. Jimbo covert, everybody. I enjoyed that. Coast to coast for ails.org. Go there and help out if you can. All right, that is it for the day back tomorrow with Tommy.