The Kevin Sheehan Show - Aiyuk's Father's Day Message

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Kevin opened with the player he hopes the Wizards will take tomorrow night with the first pick in the NBA Draft. He also reacted to Trae Young's new contract before getting to Brandon Aiyuk's latest social media video. Steve Sands/NBC Sports & Golf Channel jumped on to discuss Wyndham Clark's 2nd US Open win in the last 4 years and a lot more.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link www.ThriveMarket.com/SHEEHAN for $20 off your first three orders plus you’ll get a FREE $60 gift.   So if you are looking to make Mother’s Day perfect, or just want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal next time you host, go to www.GOLDBELLY.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code sheehan.   Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Head to www.Chime.com/SHEEHAN. It only takes a few minutes to sign up.   Search Whatnot—W H A T N O T—in the App Store, download, and you can start selling right away. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. He is Kevin. Man, what's up, everybody? I have a great father's day. And before I lay down and go to bed tonight, I just wanted to say, go commander, go commander, man.

Go commander. Raise him and take him in. In case you weren't sure, I think Brandon Ayuk wants to play in Washington. Who knew? This show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation 86690 Nation, windonation.com if you need new windows. That was Brandon Ayuk's latest video on social media. It includes him saying that he had a nice Father's Day.

I hope all of you listening, who are fathers out there, had a very nice day yesterday. Steve Sands is a father of three boys like I am. me on the show coming up. With everything you need to know about yesterday's, I think, pretty exciting final round at Chinicock Hills in the U.S. Open. Steve will very likely have other things to say, other things on his mind, like who the Wizards should take in tomorrow night's NBA draft. Steve is a big fan of the locals because he is a local. So Steve Sands coming up. Speaking of the Wizards, News just broke, and it's not unexpected, but news just broke from ESPN's Shams Charania, that Tray Young, after opting out of his player option late last week,

he intends to sign to stay in Washington. The contract reportedly will be worth $212 million over four years. Now, the fourth year is a player option, but still, $53 million a year for Tray Young. Believe it or not, that doesn't even put him in the NBA's top 10 in terms of average annual, but it's still a healthy deal for him, even though, even though it's actually not a true max contract for Young in terms of what the Wizards could have offered. Any other team offering this amount would have been a max deal, but the Wizards,

at least according to this ESPN story, could have offered a lot more. It appears as if they could have offered up to $75 million more over four years. And that would have been equal to the max contract signing with your most recent team. Now, me personally, I believe that's a lot of money for Tray Young. I'm sure that he could have gotten that on the open market.

I'm sure somebody would have been willing to pay him that. So if you believe that, and I'm, I believe that. I think I believe that. I'm not sure if I believe that. But let's just say that he could get pretty close to a max deal on the open market, had he gone out and sought it. If you're a believer that that's true and you wanted Trey Young to remain in D.C., then I guess a nice golf clap for Winger and Dock.

is appropriate because, you know, they didn't pay him the true Max deal that they could have offered him, but they kept him here with an offer that maybe he could have gotten somewhere else. If they wanted him here, and I do want him here, then this is probably what they had to do. I will get to Brandon I, you coming up in the next segment in terms of my reaction to his latest video. But as long as we are talking wizards and we're now roughly 26 hours away from tomorrow night's NBA draft, I want to share with you that I have come to a conclusion on what I would do from a basketball perspective if I were the wizards holding the number one pick in the draft. The conclusion that I've come to is that if Darren Peterson

checks out from a health, personality, and anything else that people are concerned with when it comes to him standpoint, I think he's got the highest ceiling of any player in the draft, including A.J. DeBanza. And I think if you're picking number one and you've done what the Wizards have done for the last three years, you at number one are picking the player with the highest ceiling. And I think that's Darren Peterson. I do. Now, there's all of the other stuff with him. And that other stuff is meaningful, but I don't have the answers to the other stuff, although I'm going to share with you momentarily something one of my guests on radio shared with me today. Now, I've heard the story, but he emphasized it, and I want to emphasize it myself. But I think Darren Peterson and actually

North Carolina's Caleb Wilson are the players with the highest ceilings in this draft. I like A.J. DeBonza. Don't mistake what I'm saying for, I'm not a big fan of DeBonza. I am a big fan of DeBonza. I think DeBonsa is going to be a big time score in the NBA. And I love the fact that he was the opposite in college from Darren Peterson. He played 40 minutes a night six times over BYU's last, I think, 12, 13, 14, 14 games. he couldn't get enough of playing basketball. But as much as I like DeBanza, and I don't think there's like a massive difference,

but I think there's a difference. I think Caleb Wilson and Darren Peterson, and I would throw in Darius A Cuff Jr., the point guard from Arkansas, I think those are the three players for me in this draft that I believe could eventually one day down the road four, five, six, seven years down the road, be legitimate MVP contending types.

I don't know if I feel that way about DeBanza. I feel like he could be great and an All-Star great. And I think his floor is pretty high because I think the intangibles are probably there. I also think he's probably a better fit for the current group of wizards. But I would not draft that way. I mean, these wizards have proved nothing. I mean, we don't even know if AD will play enough under the current deal. And Trey Young, without an AD, I don't know if that's going to be a great situation.

I'm intrigued by Trey Young because of Anthony Davis. If you recall when they made the Trey Young deal, I said, I'm not a big Trey Young fan. But then I thought about after they made the Anthony Davis deal, the two of them together actually is intriguing to me. And I think DeBanza would fit into that dynamic along with their other young players. I think maybe better than Darren Peterson right now, but I don't care about right now. If Darren Peterson becomes what I think he could become if we're just talking about basketball, because I don't know anything about all of the other stuff. It's been a big time mystery. We've talked a lot about it on the show, going back to when it first started at Can

Kansas during the college basketball season. But I don't know that I have ever seen in college a smoother, more effortless style in terms of a score. He has good size at 6-6. He's got a tremendous wingspan. He's got a great handle. He can shoot it from anywhere. He very subtly, not with explosiveness, although he is a really good athlete.

but he uses incredible ability with short movements, with the ability, just the natural ability to create space. And then even if he doesn't get the space, he can shoot over you. Now, I don't want to hear from his team anymore. They apparently have said he's a point guard. Wherever he goes, he's got to play point guard. This may be part of the problem, is that, and I had John Fanta, you know, the college basketball guy,

I love John. He does NBA stuff, does college basketball stuff for Fox, for NBC. Now, John said to me a few weeks back about Peterson, it's not him as much as it may be the people around him. And they're going to have to understand that when he gets to the NBA, whatever they think doesn't matter anymore. Well, that's nice to say, but, you know, do you take on, a whole team that has big-time influence in the way he conducts himself.

For those that don't know, Darren Peterson missed a lot of games at Kansas. He pulled himself out of games at Kansas. He was going to play in one of the biggest games of the year against number one Arizona in Lawrence and 20 minutes before Tip said, I can't go. Now, there are reasons for that. And the reasons have, you know, bounced, around a lot, but I want to point everybody in the direction of a story that Ramona Shelburne at ESPN wrote on May 8th. My guest on radio this morning, Adam Finkelstein from CBS Sports. Adam is the

director of scouting for CBS Sports, covers the NBA draft, covers college basketball, and he just reminded me of this story, because the story was about high doses of creatine. that led to the consistent cramping problem that Darren Peterson had, that kept him from playing in games at times, and had him checking out of games at times. And he reminded me of an incident that Darren Peterson was involved in before his one season at Kansas ever began. And I'm going to read from the Ramona Shelburne story about this.

Again, this story's headline and the first part of it is the cramping issue was due to too much creatine. High doses of creatine created the condition. Now, there appear to be some holes in that part of the explanation from the Darren Peterson team. But let me take you to this particular part of her story on May 8th. in September he had an incident that sent him to the hospital in an ambulance. It was a very scary episode for Peterson. First his legs started cramping, then his stomach, back, arms, and hands. Eventually, his whole body was cramping.

Quote from Darren Peterson, I made it to the training room and just started begging them to call 911. They were trying to get a vein to get me the IV to get me back hydrated, but I was cramping so hard they couldn't get a vein. I thought I was going to die on the training table that day, closed quote. Finally at the hospital, the emergency room doctors were able to get a vein and give him several bags of fluids intravenously. Peterson stayed there for several hours being treated for what doctors thought was severe dehyne. hydration. He said he was sore for days afterward, but pushed to return to play. The experience was far from over, however. The full body cramp was so intense, Peterson said, that he struggled to shake the fear that it could happen again. Quote, this is from Peterson. Whenever I felt anything like

that come on, my initial thought was that it might get to that again, and I can't let that happen and be embarrassed and have that on TV and all that. It kind of put me in a tizzy because I didn't know what was causing it. Nothing has ever been wrong with me before. Basketball is my life what I love to do. But something was going on and I couldn't figure it out. My biggest thing was I'm going to keep trying because we don't know what's wrong and we can't say something's wrong.

So I'm going to go out there and when it happens, I'm going to ask to come out. I don't know if that was the right or the wrong move. Closed quote. So I think this is really interesting as it relates to everything that was going on with Darren Peterson. And it's not necessarily something that's going to help him in terms of teams feeling more comfortable about the situation. Because it's very possible that he has this fear, this panic. over what turned out to be kind of a traumatizing event in September,

him being rushed to the emergency room, 911, in an ambulance, feeling like he was going to die. There are certainly, and I'm sure many of you are familiar with anxiety attacks, panic attacks. And if that's what he was suffering from during the season, that is as much a mental, a psychological issue as it is a physical issue, the fear he has of his physical condition. So, interesting if that's actually what ends up being. Now, creatine could be the reason for the cramping, and it could be that, you know, silver bullet, you know, elixir that gets his head out of the space of, I don't want that to ever happen to me again.

But if he has that fear going into the NBA, will it cost him games? Will it cost him, you know, parts of games? Will he come out of games with fear that he's going to end up being in that same spot that he was in last September? If that's what he's dealing with, that's a real, real issue that needs psychological help. and I'm sure a lot more than that.

I love him as an NBA player. I like him defensively too. I mean, I went back last week and watched his games, DeBonce's games, a bunch, not the whole games, but a lot of just video on the top players in the draft so I could be prepared for this week. And to me, it's, I'll put it this way. If Darren Peterson had a normal one year of college

in Lawrence, Kansas, where he played in all the games and wasn't hurt and didn't have these other issues. I don't even think there'd be a question about which player would be going number one tomorrow night. It would have been Darren Peterson the entire time. And the conversation would be about DeBonza going number two or Boozer going number two or Caleb Wilson going number two. But if Darren Peterson had had a normal college freshman year, only year at Kansas, he'd be the obvious number one pick tomorrow night. If everything got checked out physically, mentally, and otherwise, I would take him if I were the Wizards.

I'm not going to be unhappy if they take DeBonce. I think DeBonce is going to be a good player. I'd actually rather than take Caleb Wilson from North Carolina than DeBanza. I really think that Caleb Wilson is a monster, potentially in the NBA down the road. 6-10 massive wingspan, and he's got some killer in him. He is a phenomenal rebounder. And, you know, there are parts of his game that he's got to develop,

but he is freaky and looks like he could be one badass, you know, defensive player, rim protector, shot blocker, rebounder, and score, especially in and around the rim offensively. I really like Caleb Wilson's upside. So A-Cuff Jr., you're probably not going to take a point guard no matter how physically mature he is for his age at number one overall. But with what Jalen Brunson led over the last two months, I bet some people will look at A-Cuff Jr. and say, I see the next Brunson-led title example right here. A-Cuff Jr. is a stone-cold killer as a score.

I think he's going to average 30 a game at some point within four or five years and be a threat to be a scoring leader in the NBA. To me, a lot of Dame Lillard in him. And yeah, he didn't like defending at the college level. Jalen Brunson's not a very good defender. You're going to find out Trey Young is not a good defender. But he's going to score. and he's a man physically already.

There are other players I like, and I'll share some of those with you tomorrow. You know, there have been a lot of stories about the Wizards wanting to trade back into some part of the first round. We'll see if that happens. But Darren Peterson would actually be my guy, if everything checked out, and that's a big if. But I think he's got the biggest upside.

All right. Brandon Ayuk's latest thoughts on playing in Washington when we come back after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, listen up. America is turning 250 this July 4th, an epic milestone that deserves an epic party, and Goldbelly has you covered. Goldbelly is the official food marketplace of America's 250th. Amazing food is goldbelly's deep. Amazing food is Goldbelly's DNA. Think about it. Every city's got that one legendary place people wait in line for. The spot locals are obsessed with. The place that's been feeding people for generations. Well, I've been telling you about Goldbelly for two plus years now. They've put together all of those iconic spots across the country that represent the best food America has to offer and they'll ship it to you for your next

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three orders, plus you'll get a free $60 gift. Man, what's up, everybody? I had a great Father's Day. And before I lay down and go to bed tonight, I just wanted to say, go commanders, go commander, man. Go commanders. Raise hell, take command. In addition to Brandon Ayuk yelling out, go commanders, go commanders, go commanders, go

commanders, raise hail, take command. That was in his latest Instagram video last night. He also posted a photo on social media of former Redskins quarterback Mark Rippin hoisting the Lombardi Trophy following Washington's Super Bowl 26 win in Minneapolis over the Buffalo Bills in January of 1992. Oh, that Brandon I, you trying to ingratiate himself into the Washington fan base and to this new Washington culture. I will tell you that hearing commanders three times in a matter of a few seconds is nails on a chalkboard for me. If you get a chance to rate and review this podcast and you haven't done it already, it would be much appreciated if you could do it.

It takes less than 30 seconds. Just hit the star count and give us five stars if you think the show deserves it. That's obviously the best for us. Following this podcast is a big deal as well for us. Just hit the plus button or the follow button. I'm just so sick of the Brandon Ayuk story. I really am getting sick and tired of him. Look, they've got all the information.

and I'm telling you right now, I feel pretty confident that they're going to, at the very least, give him a meaningful looksy when he gets released. I think there is certainly a 50-50 or better than 50-50 possibility or probability of Brandon Ayuk

being a Washington football player once he is released by the 49ers. but man, there is a lot to digest from the last week and a half. This guy is so intent on doing everything but whatever he should be doing to get back out onto the field to force the 49ers hand. It's just to me concerning. There's been nothing really about his desire to get back out onto the field to prove that he can still do it, to prove that he's healthy, to prove that he's in shape, to prove that

he's desperate to get back out onto the playing field, to talk about how much he's missed football, how important football is to him, none of that. Just shots at the 49ers, and then, like yesterday or last evening, expressing his desire as he has now for really a couple of years, if you want account this summer of 2024. His desire to reunite with his college quarterback at Arizona State Jaden Daniels and play in Washington. I just, look, I can't tell you what kind of shape he's in, what kind of condition the knees in, whether or not he's mentally stable or unstable. They're going to have to figure that out. They're going to have to figure that out. I hope they will figure that out. And I hope that if there's any real concern about his physical health or mental

health, they won't do it. Now, you know, we've talked about the price many times. This is not, you know, a big decision contractually. This is going to be a one-year prove-it deal with an opportunity to kick him out of the building the first moment that he becomes disruptive or becomes a problem. So some would say, well, just do it and let's see what happens. But they have spent two years reshaping the culture, not reshaping, creating a culture that is positive in the building. And, you know, as of right now, based on a week and a half of, you know, video messages on social media, this guy does not appear to have all of his marbles in place. So you've got to get that checked out. I loved the player at the end of 2023, but this is someone who has to be focused on getting to a point in which the 49ers have to fish or cut bait with him.

And we know that he's not going to play with the 49ers. He should have been at OTAs. He should be applying for reinstatement so he can force the 49ers hand to either leave them, on that reserved left squad list, which if he's filed for reinstatement, he's showing up, it'll be harder for them to keep him on that list. But he needs to focus on forcing their hand to either say, okay, you're here, you're healthy, you're in shape, you're going to play for us, which I don't think will happen, or we're going to release you. I mean, there are still some maybe twists and turns that we're not anticipating, like him showing up for the first

first day of training camp for the 49ers being in tremendous shape, having a good professional attitude. And the 49ers saying, well, now we're talking. This is the guy we signed in the summer of 2024. We don't want you to go anywhere. We want you to be a part of the team. George Kittle, the very good tight end in San Francisco, was a guest on the Pardon My Take podcast. And had a couple of things to say about Brandon Ayuk. He was asked about Brandon Ayuk and what he looked like on the field the last time he saw him. And George Kittles said, quote, I used to make it a habit of mine to go out early in the morning before meetings to watch him, Ayuk, train because he'd always be out there early. And I watched him run over 22 miles an hour and watched him stop on a dime. He's still got it.

But that was eight months ago, so I don't really know. You guys have fun with that, I guess. You have fun with all that comes with it. And then responding to the notion that IUC will be happy once he becomes a Washington player, Kittle said, and this has a tinge of sarcasm to it, quote, you're right. I wouldn't be happy either after a team paid me $130 million, close quote. Actually, they didn't pay him $130 million. The contract was for $120, I think, an aggregate, and they only paid $50 of it because they avoided the rest of it.

I'd still lean that he's going to be on this roster. because I keep coming back to if they aren't going to at least give it a chance, meaning when he gets released, sit down, meet with him, check him out physically, check him out mentally, then they may have already leaked that they're not interested to a Schefter or to a Rappaport. I mean, they don't have to do that. They can act like they're not even paying attention, but of course they're paying attention. I mean, this guy is bringing them into every conversation now, or at least recently. Of course he wants to play here.

That's never been in doubt. He wants to play here. And I'll keep coming back to this. If you're getting a healthy, mentally, and physically, Brandon Ayuk, then there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't give him a one-year prove-it deal. because this guy at the end of 23 was much better than anything you're going to have this year. And that includes Terry McClorn this year.

I thought he was better than Terry. I thought it was close. I thought at the end of 2023, he'd be a guy I'd take over Terry. But obviously I would have been wrong because the guy's nuts, or at least there's at least some, you know, character flaws and there's none with Terry.

But I think as a player, on the field, he's a more explosive deep threat. He is a faster, better route runner, and by the way, an outstanding blocker, so is Terry. But the two of them together, if you get that I-Uke from 23, sign me

up for that. But man, the more and more you see of him and you hear from him, it really pushes you away from that idea. But that's where ultimately, we're just going to have to trust in Quinn Peters, the front office, everybody.

That might be one that the owner may have to sit down with IU just to make sure that, you know, more eyes are on this guy. I'm not actually recommending that. I want him out of it. I trust Adam Peters and his front office and Dan Quinn to make the right decision. Benefit of the doubt, Kevin, in play right there. Messi scored another two goals as Argentina one. He's got five goals, all-time leading score in World Cup history.

There's some other stuff from the weekend. I'll get to on the show with Tommy, including the Nats weekend. They did finally beat Tampa, but they lost this series. There was a Jason Lock and Forrest story about Dan Quinn being on the hot seat. We'll tackle that tomorrow together with Tommy, and we'll certainly have, you know, final draft thoughts on tomorrow's show as well. Oh, big story from college basketball in the NBA. Dusty May, who took Florida Atlantic to a final four and then won a national championship with Michigan in his second season is off to the NBA to be the head coach of the Dallas Mavericks. college basketball must be now

just one of those things where if you've got better options outside of the sport and you're still coaching, yeah, do that rather than deal with NIL salary cap and the dynamic environment that is college sports. Steve Sands, after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, I've been telling you about Chime for over a year now. Chime has become America's number one choice for banking. They've changed the way people bank offering the most rewarding fee-free banking. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you

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Wyndham Clark holds on for Dear Life and wins his second U.S. Open in four years. He won the 2023 U.S. Open at L.A. Country Club. And he had a six-shot lead going into the final round yesterday, but things got interesting and very quickly. And Sam Burns got awfully close. finishing second. Three players in total finished under par. That was it at famed and very difficult Shinnecock Hills in the Hamptons. I want to start with Wyndham Clark because he's had a difficult last few years. And I think most golf fans know he's not the most popular guy on tour. So let's

start with what was the reaction from players, from people on the tour, to, Wyndham Clark winning a second U.S. Open. Well, I don't know if you watched any yesterday, but he was really roughed up by the crowd, Kevin. Yeah. Really borderline embarrassing. I don't know. I mean, I think people more so wanted Scotty on his birthday to win the career grand slam than for

Wyndham to win his second, and when it looked like Wyndham was kind of running away with it there for a while, they were jumping all over him, and then when it got really tight, when he was really tightening up, they got on them even more. And you got to give him credit. He handled himself beautifully in very, very difficult conditions from the fans' point of view. And he addressed it afterwards. So did Scotty Schaeffler, by the way, addressed it afterwards.

But what I call it a popular win? No, I think it would have been way more popular if Scotty or Sam Burns or someone else would have won. But Wyndham is a great, great player, Kevin. There is no debate on him. He is a great player, but for those that don't follow, you know, the PGA tour and golf, like, you know, obviously you do, and I do to a much lesser extent, but I love it, as you know. Tell everybody about kind of the last couple of years with Wyndham Clark and the incidents that have led to him not necessarily being anywhere near the most popular player on tour. Yeah, he's not one of the most popular guys on tour, but he wants his peers.

He's also not one of the most popular players with the fans, and certainly with the organization and the leagues, if you will. Look, last year he was frustrated at Oakmont. Oakmont's a legendary place after U.S. Open, and he went inside their famous locker room that's been around for 100 years and just destroyed the place. He paid his penance. He has apologized for it.

If we're all judged, Kevin, by our worst moments, We're all going to be in big, big trouble. You know, and he does stuff on tour that perhaps annoys people every once in a while. He's a little edgy. He's not the warmest guy in the world, but I think he's a nice guy. I get along with him great. Have walked plenty of holes with him and practice around and chatted with him. He's open and he's honest.

But you know what the other thing is, Kevin, I tell us to people all the time. You know, you and I are old, all right? The audience who we both speak to and live with are not, you know, in their, teams and early 20s. You know, the athletes are, and you've got to allow people to grow up. We don't grow up on the world stage. We don't have every move we make being judged. Professional athletes do.

And he's made some mistakes. He's admitted them, and he's done right by the sport. He's done right by his team. He's done right by his tour. And I think people ought to get to know him a little bit before they judge him from the exterior. It's a great point. We talk about it all the time. We often forget as adult sports fans that these are in many ways, certainly from a maturity standpoint, they're kids. And yet they've had, they have these huge responsibilities and they are critiqued at every turn, especially in the world we're living in now with social media. So let's talk about yesterday. He goes in with a six-shot lead. Did you before the round? think that it would tighten up the way it did? What were your thoughts going into the final round? Well, when we came on the air in the morning on USA and then when we continued on the air on NBC,

in and around commercial breaks and also on the air, I asked Jim Pyrick, Kurt Byron, Kevin Kisner, Brad Faxon, Aaron Oberholzer, you know, all these guys who have been there who have won them, that kind of thing. Is this thing over? Every one of them said no. And I agree, with them. But I also thought that six shots is something that's just too insurmountable unless the circumstances are insane. Let me give you one quick

stat. In the history of professional golf, in the history of the sport, which dates back beyond 1900, 20 of 21, going into yesterday, 20 of 21 players who had a six-shot leader

more going into the final round, went on to win. The lone exception, the 96 matter, Greg Norman. When he lost to Nick Soutto. Yesterday wasn't that type of scenario. And I just thought,

would he wobble? Absolutely. Would he be nervous? 100%. Would he make mistakes? Without question. But at the end of the day, I just didn't think Wyndham Clark was going to shoot a 75 or 76 and allow somebody to shoot 68, 69, or 70, and win.

He shot 73, did what he needed to do, made some big-time mistakes, but also made some big-time shots. And I think the end result was where I thought it would be, that it would be tight, maybe not one shot, but it would be tight, but that Wyndham's six-shot lead would be able to give you one more thing. People say this to us all the time when we're walking around or an airport or a bar or a restaurant, whatever, Thursday versus Sunday.

They all matter, Kevin. He gave himself a six-shot lead because of how he played Thursday through Saturday. Saturday night. And that really, really matters. It allowed him to have some wiggle room on Sunday when the pressure rises to its height to be able to shoot a 73 and still win. And that's exactly what happened. Man, I thought that, you know, I think a lot of golf fans entered yesterday, hoping that Scotty in the final group would put the pressure on him and Scottie could get it done. like you said, Scotty was certainly a favorite of everybody watching. And I thought some of those par saves that Clark had on the front nine,

I mean, they turned out to be critical, but they were big-time clutch par-saving putts that, you know, take away one of those and he's in a playoff with Burns. Without question. The thing about the U.S. Open that's different than the other three majors, And I've said this to you before. One of the beautiful things about the two biggest individual sports is tennis. And I heard your interview with John Orrin.

It was great. And I heard you say that tennis has waned. I still love the grand slams. But I don't love tennis nearly as much that I loved when we were kids because of what exactly what you said, because of all the Americans not doing it. Well, in this case, golf like tennis, the four major championships, the four grand slams of tennis, are very similar in their differences. And the U.S. Open is somewhere where PAR is really, really, really important and not going to hurt you.

Whereas at Augusta, where there are birdies and eagles flying all over the place, and so much excitement on the back nine, par is not necessarily your friend like it is in the U.S. Open. So if you fast forward all the way to yesterday from Augusta yesterday, to win at Augusta, you've got to have the pedal down. So when a U.S. Open, you have to be able to make those six to ten foot parsaise. You've got to stay away from double bogies. You have to be able to come up big when you have your knees wobbling over a five-foot par puttut that sliding left to right and you're a little bit on the uncomfortable side. And Wyndham made a ton of par saves the first three days.

He wobbled a little bit yesterday, but then he started his... the middle portion of the round, started to gather himself, settled in, started making some seriously great shots and some seriously great putts to save his par, then that birdie at 16. Yeah, 16. Yeah. It allowed just a little bit of a cushion coming home. He boged 17, and he made a beautiful lag putt on 18.

But those par saves, you mentioned, Kevin, in the middle portion of that final round are what won him be at USO. He was leaking oil, and he stopped himself by making some of those huge, huge par saves. Those par saves at a U.S. Open are in North. When three guys were under par. Par is your friend at the U.S. Open. I'll tell you what, his drive on 16, I literally said to my son, I'm like, he's not going to lose in a playoff.

He's going to shoot 200, and Burns is going to win this thing at 3 under. And but that's so that was an amazing birdie put at 16, an amazing recovery after that drive. I'll tell you what, I mean, I was really rooting for Burns after what happened to him last year at Oakmont. We talked about this, you know, a year ago that standing water he didn't get relief from. He should have gotten relief from. I can't believe that he didn't make one of those two putts on 17 or 18. I thought the way he had putted it all day long, but one of the, those should have gone in.

But one at 18. Yeah. He had a read. Yeah. I know. Not only that, but he hit a great putt. It wasn't like he left for short. It wasn't like he ate anything stupid.

I mean, Sam Burns, one of the top two or three putters in the world. And he played very, very well coming down the stretch to put all that pressure on Windham. But I thought he was going to make one of those two puts as well. And when he missed the first one, when he got to 18, and he got the read, I thought, oh, Sam's going to make this, and there's going to be a two-hole playoff. And it didn't happen for him. He got screwed last year, I think, by the USDA. No doubt. I mean, the ball was floating.

Yeah. And he didn't get the relief there. The golf guys have a funny way of paying people back whenever something like that happened. and I thought they were paying him back yesterday. It didn't work out, but he seems like he's getting, you know, like in the NBA, in golf, very rarely do you not get punched in the face before winning a title? You know, think of the pistons with the Celtics, then think of the bowls with the pistons. You know, you've got to get punched in the face before you actually get the title.

That's why I think the next beat Wemby, you can't just get the title the first time you're there in the NBA. That's not how it works. well and golf it's the same thing. I thought that Sam Burns was going to make that put on 18 and go to a playoff, and then who knows what would have happened. But because last year he got screwed by the USDA and he didn't make the putt. So that storyline didn't come to fruition, but I was with you. Those two puds, I can't believe one of them didn't go in.

They were both good putts, though. All right. This is crazy to say, but those that are following the sport will understand it. Scotty Schaeffler finished even par, tied for four. He tied, you know, he was in second at the Masters. I think he was, was he top 10 at the PGA, top 15, something like that. And yet, I think all of us watching him this past weekend, he's not Scotty Schaeffler right now, not as a putter anyway. So tell me what's wrong with.

It's crazy to frame it that way because he finished in the top five. But what's wrong with Scotty right now? It's a great question. and I'm not avoiding it by any means because there is a question about what's going on with Scottie Sheffer. Right. I think it's just the fact that golf is golf, and it's a four-letter word. Kevin, never forget that golf is a four-letter word, my man. It's just a fleeting game, and I think that, look at Jordan Speefe.

From 2014 to 2017, did he miss a putt? Literally, did he miss a putt for four straight season? Yeah. He hasn't made one since, all right? and Scotty is still the best player in the world. But his putter is wavered a little bit, and I don't think it's a confidence thing. I think it is a confidence thing with Jordan Spee.

I think he's playing great golf. He's just not making any putts, and until he sees some putts go in, there's going to be a problem. With Scotty, it's not quite there to that level just yet, but it is a little concerning that Scotty is playing the way he's playing and giving himself opportunities to win, but the putter is wavering right now.

And I think that you can just chalk that up to the way the sport is played. And Roger Malpe and I were laughing the other night having a drink after a long day on the course, and he's a great guy to have a drink with a great storyteller. He just looked at me, he goes, golf is only hard when you care. And I laughed. I was like, well, I don't know about that, Roger.

He goes, he goes, Steve, I'm telling you, golf is only hard. hard when you care. When Scotty was rolling for four years, it was just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, all of a sudden a couple of those lip ins go lip out and all of a sudden your mind wanders a little bit and all of a sudden you start caring a little bit more.

Golf is only hard when you care. It's a great line from Roger Malpian. I think Scotty is going through a little patch right now. I'm not worried about him at all, but he's going through just a little patch right now that is preventing him. Again, Thursday through Sunday. He lost by four

shot. That's a lot. Sam Burns only lost by one. I promise you, Sam Burns is thinking, man, on Thursday and Friday, I missed a little two and a half footer where it wasn't paying attention so much as I just thought I was going to make it. Well, those all count. I think Scotty right now is a little bit in grind mode, but I'm not worried about him at all. It'll be fine. I thought the three putt at 14, because, you know, I was rooting for Burns. I was rooting for everybody, but Wyndham Clark, you know, it's, it wasn't even about him. It was big lead and you'd love to see the drama of something happening on Sunday and it was happening

although he never gave up the lead amazingly but I thought that three putt at 14 he didn't look the same after that and that was pretty much his tournament right there right oh no question about it listen when you are trying to come from behind I was I was giving this analogy earlier and it's another sports analogy with you because you're a big sports guy who's your audience when you watch a basketball game, NBA or college,

when you watch a football game, NFL or college, and there's a big lead, and then the other team's making a run. Everybody's always making a run. Everybody's going at it, trying to get after it. If they get to a point or two back in basketball or one possession back in football, that's a lot different than actually getting the lead.

If you get the lead, then things completely change. But as long as the guy in this case, Wyndham, or the team in the case of those two sports, pro or college, as long as they're holding them off, even if it's just by one, you still are in, the feeling in your head is, I'm in control of this, and I'm the one who's in charge. And nobody caught Wyndham yesterday. He wobbled, like I said, he gave people opportunities. There's no doubt about that. And guys made a run at him.

Scotty for a little bit. Sam Burns most certainly. Tom Kim made a run at it. a couple of guys, other than that, made runs at it as well. But in the end, they just couldn't get over the hump, if you will, and it allowed, you know, Wyndham to not cruise home by any means, but allowed him to stay on top, and that's a lot different feeling than being tied.

Let's say if Sam Burns or Scotty Shepler makes that put on 14, and Sam Burns makes that put later and ties Wyndham, well, he's going to play those last three holes a lot differently, and he never had to do that. So if he kept that door open for Wyndham mentally to say, no, uh-uh, I'm still in charge of this tournament, whether it's by six or whether it's by one. What did the players think of Shinnock? Did it play fairly?

They did. As much as we rip on the USDA, which we just did last year at Oakmont, we've done it, Shinnecock, the last two times were a clown show. 2018 was a joke. 2004 was absolutely. ridiculous. They got it right this time. I was telling somebody the other day. I've never been a boss. I've never hired or fired. But I've always found the best bosses, the best leaders in life, whether it's business or in personal life, like your dad or somebody like that, is critical when they need to be,

but also praise when they should be. And we should praise the USDA. The forecast on Thursday and Saturday was for crazy high winds and also a little bit in the Friday as well. So they softened the golf course because if they would have played it, if they would have set it up the way they wanted to, they wouldn't have been playing golf on Thursday and Saturday. It was too windy. If the beans were too firm and fast, the ball wouldn't have stayed on the greens and they would have had to call play.

It was a weird fog delay on Thursday before the wind picked up. And from 7.05 a.m. to 9.05 a.m. local time, they had to call play because of the fog. and then the wind kicked in. But the golf course was set up perfectly. It was fair. Every player said that. Every caddy, every official,

everybody in and around the sport said it. The USDA deserves a lot of credit for the way the golf course was set up and the way it played out. It was a fantastic U.S. Open venue, and the golf course was set up perfectly. The fan situation was a little different. There were no fans out there in comparison to other U.S. opens. and there's a logistical issue at the eastern tip of Long Island, getting out of the Hamptons,

getting all the way out to Shinnock, not that people aren't used to taking trains and that kind of thing in public transportation when it comes to New Yorkers, but when you're going all the way out that far and the scheduling is a little bit different, it's tough to get a packed house, and they certainly did not have a packed house each day at the U.S. Open, so that was disappointing, but the U.S.G. I did a fabulous job setting up the golf course. What's the worst, like, final round of, it would be a U.S. Open where the course just got to be unplayable. Like, I remember the Corey Pavean year at Chinnecock. If I recall that, it was completely borderline unplayable. Like every putt, if it didn't go in the hole, was seemingly going off the

green. Is there a final round or just a U.S. Open that's considered to be a U. one that just got completely out of control? Well, there's too many to count, unfortunately, and that's sad because the USDA should be better because it's the U.S. Open, but they have this theory and thinking, even though they say it's not true, that they want the score to be manipulated to the point where it's around even par, at even par, that's what you want. And they say that's not the case, but we all know that is. I think you're mistaking, Kevin,

and I'm not trying to correct you. No, that's fine. you're mistaken, if you're mistaken, the 95 Shinakakak U.S. open to the 2004 Shinakakk U.S.

Open when Rathieuzen won. Okay. They were literally watering the greens during play. Got it. We were watching the U.S. Open,

Kevin. You're where you are, I'm where I am, and we're all watching this open, these guys are standing on the 7th T, and there are

grounds crew out there watering the green because balls are just tumbling off the green, even though they're not even able to come to rest. It was a, it was a completely

complete clown show. The Corey Pavan 951 was okay on the edge, but okay. All right. So, O4, Goosen, yeah. Oh, my God. That was, that was an embarrassment to the sport, and the U.S.GA made some serious changes to its personnel to save the least after that. But then 14 years, the reason that Shinnock didn't have it come back for 14 years, because the members are like, hey, get out of here if you're going to make us, if you're going to embarrass our great golf course. Shitticox is one of the great golf courses on the planet. Right.

It might be the best golf in America. So let them play for God's sakes. So they skip their deal in the rotation. And then they went to 2018 when Brooks kept a one, and the same thing happened. That's what Phil Mickelson kept hitting golf balls while they were while they were Oh, right, right, before they had finished off. While they were still before they finished stop rolling. And it was a joke what they did there.

So they were real careful with Shinnock. They know the history of Shinnock. They understand it's the only U.S. Open venue that's ever hosted the National Championship in three centuries dating all the way back to 1896. It's an incredible golf course with an incredible membership. Just let them play for God's sake. And that's what they did this week. Make it hard, but make it playable. And at the end of the week, three guys were under par and a U.S. Open champion won again.

So there's no complaint on 2026 when it comes to Shinnecock. But last year at Oakmont was ridiculous with that ruling that Sam Burns didn't get. There have been plenty of other times. Wingfoot was furious, furious after 2006, after that clown show with what they did to some of the greens there. I mean, they've had a seven-over winner at Wingfoot in 1974, Hale-R-W. Yeah, Hale-R-W. You know, somebody once told me years ago, and Lee Corsesau used to say this all the time when he was on game day. It's entertainment, baby.

it's a TV show. You've got to let me, you got to let the, I know it's sports, and I know it's at the highest level. I know there's a lot on the line. But at the end of the day, Kevin, it's a TV show.

You've got to make sure that the entertainment value is still up. And if these guys are doing something like watering the greens in between groupings on the seventh tee at the par three at Shinnock, clearly they've made a mistake. How about this? In the last round of the O4 Open at Shinnock, the one that Reteef Koussen won, just one player in the fourth round shot even par.

Everyone else was over par. And 30 players shot 80 or worse in the final round of that open. Do you have any clue as to the one player that shot even par? Nobody shot under par in the final round. I would say, I want to say Ernie else. No. But it wasn't Ernie. Ernie?

It was a riteef. It was Robert Allenby shot 70. Robert Allenby. Yeah. That makes sense. Robert's like wonderfully out of his mind. He probably enjoyed that day. But that day, Kevin was such an embarrassment to the sport and such an embarrassment

to the USGA. I mean, it was insane what was going on there. And again, stop trying to manipulate a score. Just let the best players in the world go play golf and see what happens. No one is going to shoot 17 under par as Shinnock. It's not going to happen. Now, they had a 64 on Thursday. Yeah, they did.

They went to Clark. They had 265 on Friday. What's wrong with that? Like, it's okay. They're the best players in the world. By the way, the interesting thing about that stat you just said, that one guy shot even par and that 30 guys, shot 80 or above.

Yeah. That's not Thursday, Friday, with qualifiers and people who just got into the event. No, those are close. That's after the cuts, yeah. That's a short and field. That's a smaller field after the cut.

Yeah. That day was a joke. The highest score, actually, I would have thought it would have been something in the 90s, but Billy Mayfair shot 89 on that particular day. Yeah, I mean,

Billy Mayfair is a multiple, full winner on the PGA tour. He shot 89. 89. I always say to people, all my friends are like, what do you think I would shoot there? Like, okay, I got two to you. Just pretend you're a scratch, all right?

What you think is a scratch. If you played Shinnock yesterday and you were a scratch, no chance, zero chance. You're breaking 90, maybe not even 100. Right. So imagine on a day like, imagine on a day like that, When it's an absolute clown show, and one of the best players in the world is shooting 89, you literally might not finish your round if you're a regular golfer.

For those that are listening that play golf, it really is one of those. It's so interesting the differences between the guys that are out there yesterday playing and the best golfers in your life who are scratch or maybe even pluses. like it's still an incredibly wide, you know, a large difference between those guys out there yesterday and the best golfer in your life right now. Kevin, you and I have mutual friends who can really play. Yeah. I mean, really, but we've got a couple of friends who are legit, legit scratch players. And it's the same sport, but it's a different game, man.

I promise you. These PGA Tour players are playing the same, but they are not in the same outfit, man. It is totally different golf. I'm telling you, if you put a scratch golfer out there. No, you're right. Bob Ford of C. Say, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, Kevin Sheehan. Well, I'm not scratch.

So we're nowhere. Yeah. But no, no, no. I have friends who are scratches or even a couple of guys that are pluses that are probably, not breaking 95 yesterday. No, there's no chance. The beautiful thing is they think they can. Right.

Once they hear, ladies and gentlemen, from Rockville, Maryland, please welcome Kevin Sheehan. You're either going to see your pants or maybe even worse. That's the first thing. The second thing is, the first time you get into U.S. Open rough,

did you ever play congressional after U.S. Open? Not after an Open, no. I can only Yeah, yeah. I am not, you know me well, I'm not a humble brag guy, I'm not one of these people. I played Augusta National the day after the Masters

one time, one time. I played it other times during the year with members who are friends, and it's normal and not like lightning fast, and, you know, it's a play, a very playable and enjoyable golf course. One time, all right, in 23 Masters, one time I played the Monday after.

That means the greens. The Green's. And Master's speed. Yeah. Kevin, you are not keeping the ball on the green. Right. All right?

You are putting it off the green four or five times. If you legitimately keep score, if you're an 11 handicapped, and you legitimately keep score on the Monday after the Masters, I would bet my house that you're not breaking 100. It's that hard. It's just so hard. I, um, a couple years back, I was, playing the ocean course at Kiowa

and there were three of us and a fourth jumped on into the group and he said do you guys mind if I go all the way back and I said no whatever and he goes I'm a plus two I'm going to go all the way back and the caddy

looks at me and he goes I promise you within five holes he'll join you at the member T's I mean it was a disaster I mean, he was all over the place. He was, you know, 10 over after five holes. And he just said, you know, I'm going to come up and join you guys. It was hysterical.

I think that I always say to people all the time, there's two things you should never do in golf if you ever have the opportunity to play a Wednesday pro am on the PGA tour. Never lie about your handicack because you'll be exposed within two holes and never dress like Ricky Fowler if you're over the age of 12. But if you lie about your handicap in golf, you're out of your mind. You will be exposed immediately. And I mean one way or the other.

Don't be a sandbagger either. Sandbagger and vanity handicaps are both equally. Sandbaggers are worse. But vanity handicaps, I just never understand those people that just, no, no, no, I'm actually a four. And then you're playing with them. Actually, you're more like a 10. and you just lost a shitload of money because you've got a terrible handicap. Hey, real quickly.

Oh, go ahead. We have six sons amongst the three of us, right? Three and three. They're around the same age. Ours are a little younger than yours. I tell my kids all the time. If you get a hot girlfriend, don't tell everybody she's smoking hot. Just say you have a new girlfriend.

And then when your friends see her, then they go, oh, goodness. or if you have a beautiful house, don't say, you've got to see my new house. It's amazing. You just say, yeah, we got a new house. And then when they come over, let them decide. Handicaps are the same way. If you're a four and you're really at 10, just shut up. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? You and I, you and I are all about underpromising and trying, trying our best to over-deliver. Doesn't always happen. Correct.

But yes, under-promising is the best path to take. So Royal Berkdale next month, who won there last time? I don't even know. Jordan Speefe.

Remember when he went right into the range area, which was not considered out of bounds in 2017? I promised you next month. It will be outbound this time. because that was a crazy, crazy scenario. But Pete was a winner in 17. Padrick Harrington was a winner there in the late 2000s.

Marco Miro won there. Ian Baker Finch won there. Royal Burkdale is a great, great spot. All right, quick break. When we come back, as most of you know, Steve is from the area. He is a born and raised DMVer from Montgomery County. And he likes talking about D.C. sports more than even golf. so we will get his thoughts on who he wants the wizards to pick tomorrow night in the NBA draft

after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by My Bookie. If you're betting the World Cup or you want to bet the World Cup, you should do it at My Bookie. My bookie is offering my listeners up to a $500 betback bonus. What's a betback bonus? Well, in this case, a betback bonus is you make your first world. Cup wager at MyBooky, and if it loses, you get your money back. It's a free wager. If it wins, you get paid. If it loses up to $500, and that's the size of the wager you

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By the way, I was looking at My Bookies' NBA draft odds for tomorrow night. A.J. DeBonce is a significant favorite, minus 469 to be the first overall pick in the draft, Darren Peterson at plus 300. So if you want to bet on the NBA draft, my bookies got you covered there as well. All right, we continue with Steve Sands. And we'll get to the stuff that you actually love talking about, which are teams in D.C. And tomorrow night, the Wizards will pick number one in the NBA draft.

So who do you want them to pick? Man, it's a tough one. I have talked about this with my oldest son. So as you know, works for the Knicks. Right. And they just got off the title, and he knows way more about basketball than I do. Ah, man, I want them to take the BYU kid.

but I have a feeling they might take Peterson from Kansas because I think that he probably is an overall better player but that load management and the gatorade and the cramps got everybody, has everybody nervous, and I have a feeling they're going to take Peterson perhaps, but I would take the BYU kid because I think he's, I think he's just a fabulous player.

The Peterson guy scares me a little bit. How about you? I think Peterson, and I talked about this in the open, I think Peterson, I finally decided he's the guy that has the biggest ceiling and the

one that as a basketball player. But yeah, there's just a lot there that we're not going to know, but the teams hopefully will be able to figure it out. And, you know, it's, that's the thing that's scary, you know, because you end up

selecting a guy that whatever he was suffering from, whatever the issue was, if it continues to be an issue, people lose jobs, especially when there's an alternative like DeBanza or like I like Caleb Wilson a lot too from North Carolina. But yeah, but I think Peterson is as a basketball player, the guy that I could see five, six, seven years down the road if he's normal and everything works out with his personal stuff being like a legitimate top five-ish kind of a player. He's the only one.

I don't see DeBonce's very good. I agree. I see DeBonse is very good. I agree. And I see Caleb Wilson as having that ability to potentially be really great one day. I agree. But here's a thing, though, Kevin, this is the team of our childhood, okay? We've been fans of this team our whole lot.

We haven't had a break. right we haven't had a break for that franchise literally in more than 40 years we're talking about all the way back to the late 70s we've had some good years here and there but a real true break getting the first pick this is a pick that they cannot make a mistake on whether the b yu kid turns out to be really really good or peterson turns out to be really really great or wilson also you just can't make a mistake on this pick and i don't think the band it's not a mistake to take him. I just think that, like, to your point, I think that Wilson, and I don't think he's going to get taken, but I think it could be Peterson. I think Peterson and Wilson both have a higher

ceiling, like you said, and that's well said, but what I'd like to do more than anything, is, and I talk to Gary Woodland, who has seats on the hardwood at Fogg Allen and knows Bill self very well. And he's a very good basketball player, right, Woodland? Gary played college basketball. He played college basketball, a very good basketball player, great athlete, and a great, great guy. Yeah. great guy. He knows how big of a fan I am, and we chatted about it a couple of weeks ago, and he just kind of smiled at me. And I said, Gary, what I want more than anything in life right now,

anything, is to sit down with Bill Self at the wagon wheel and have a couple of beers and have him tell me the truth on Peterson, because I think that that kid has the potential to be something crazy special. I just don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze, if you will. and we'll see what they're going to do. But it's a big, big pick. And, you know, the Wizards catching that break and getting the first pick is a very big deal for D.C. Let's say, you know, who knows with Trey Young, who knows with Davis, who knows with all this stuff. But this kid has to be the right choice.

And I have a feeling they're going to go Peterson unless they just say, we have to go safe and take the BWILA. Thanks for doing this. Great job this weekend. I'll talk to you soon. last thing are we signing iuk or not i don't know i'm i honestly have no idea but what is it's like literally we've got peterson and iukuk like this stuff that we would need to know as fans or even as you know people somewhat uh on the periphery of the business we just don't know we don't know enough um iuk's behavior is a little bit troubling because Because he really clearly is immature, at the very least, he's immature. And, you know, I'd love to see the next video be of him doing push-ups in a weight room somewhere and saying,

I'm ready to play football. That's all I'm focused on. But it's all the other stuff that, you know, you worry about. But he was really good at the end of 2023, really good. He was really good, but he seems like a. problem. No, he seems like he's got major issues, no doubt. But again, we don't know what the reasons are, and those are the things you've got to rely on the people that have all the information to make the right decisions. And unlike the days of Dan, you know, I think there are adults

in the building that if this guy, you know, it has red flags all over and they won't touch him. By the way, can I just say one more thing on your or end interview, which was fabulous. on many. John Oran, yeah. He's great. John Oran. Oh, my God, is he great? He's so smart, and he's just a great, read, a great listen.

Yep. When you guys were talking, I've heard you say this for years to me off the air, but on the air, I've heard you say it many times. The James Dolan, Daniel Snyder, comparison was real. The one thing that John mentioned, I'm glad he mentioned it, Dolan took a half step back and let Leon, not only did he hire Leon Rose, but he told Leon to do it his way.

and he did do it his way. And then he got a little involved with the Tibbado thing. But to your point about Daniel Snyder, when Bill Parcells was put in the Hall of Fame, in his speech, he thanked the players and the staff and all the family and all the stuff, he goes, but I couldn't be standing here

if I didn't have the right owner. If you don't have the right owner in professional sports, you literally have no chance of winning unless that owner adjust. Dolan, it took him 53 years, but Dolan did. adjust and here they are. And I think that as a fan of D.C. sports and a fan of the Redskins and the commanders, I think we have a much better opportunity now to give back to the good graces of

January and February football more so now than we have in the last 30 years because now we have a, at least we have a chance. So when you say we need to trust the people who make those decisions, I trust the people who are now in that building in Ashburn way more than than I did all the way dating back to 1999. So you went to hear something interesting. Somebody called me and was interested in that part of the conversation with John Oran from Friday's show as well, where John said, man, I never thought, you know, James Dolan, owner of the Knicks, would ever win anything.

And I said that that's always been a comp where the Knicks fan base and the Redskins fan base have suffered through, you know, some of the two worst owners, professional sports and they were passionate fan bases. Now, the Knicks fan base never waned like our fan base did because it's New York and it's the Knicks are even, you know, but somebody that I know really well called me and said, there's a big difference between Dolan and Snyder. And I said, what? Dolan has other interests. Snyder was essentially a recluse and a hermit. And the only that mattered to him was his football team. And he went into, like, Dolan's, like, really into music, and he's got lots of hobbies,

and he's actually a human being that isn't just completely focused on one thing. I don't know the James Dolan personality. We all became too familiar with Dan's, but it is true that Dan essentially, that was his life. You know, he didn't, you know, he was involved in other businesses, which all. failed pretty much except for his very first business which failed after he was long gone after it and he really was and we pointed this out throughout the years he became a recluse a recluse you never saw him you never heard from him he he hated hated to communicate in public and that's this this friend of mine said and he's a Knicks fan he said Dolan had was more of a human being

than Dan was. And he had a lot of other interests, and it's very possible that he just, as he got older, the involvement in the basketball team became less important to him. Who knows, it may have happened with Dan, but I don't think Dan had a lot of other, you know, things that he was into other than being the owner of the Redskins. That was it. That's what he was known for, right? Pretty much. You can have that guy. I'm glad he's out of here. Yeah, well, I think we all are. Goodbye. I'm just done. The whole thing, the whole circus act, the way he treated people, get out of here, man. But it was an interesting distinction, I thought, because I always thought of them as kind of the same.

But this guy was right. Dan really only had the football team. That was it. All right. Go get him. Dolan is the one who built. He built the sphere in Vegas. He's built a sphere in Vegas. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Golein had a lot going. I guess Dan did it. You know, he was in the amusement parks and all that other garbage. Yeah, but they all, he basically effed them all up every time he got involved in any of those things. I mean, he couldn't help himself in the NFL because the NFL makes money for everybody, no matter how incompetent you are.

So, yeah. Bad guy. All right. Thanks. I'll talk to you later. Anytime, Kevin. Be good. Steve Sands, everybody.

He can. talk about anything. And I love having them on to talk about a lot more than just golf. That'll do it for today, back tomorrow with Tommy.