The Kevin Sheehan Show - Alex Smith Shouldn't Play

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

Kevin opened with his thoughts on the passing of NFL Hall of Fame Coach Don Shula. He recapped "The Last Dance" and had a personal Netflix binge-worthy show recommendation. JP Finlay/NBC Sports Washington & Redskins Talk Podcast joined the show to talk about the Alex Smith "Project 11" documentary. The guys talked Skins' draft, the roster, and the latest info on last week's Trent Williams trade too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron's at home. J.P. Finley will be our guest this morning. If you miss the Cooley show on Friday, a lot of really good insight on the Redskins draft in particular. If you haven't had a chance to listen to it, it's there. I'll listen to it anytime. But some really good insight from Cooley on the Redskins draft. Antonio Gibson in particular, I think he's surprised many of you by saying that Gibson is probably their h-back. And that's sort of how he fits in, although he is a weapon, he's flexible, he's, you know, a guy that can play as an athlete, many different positions offensively. Cooley was with us on Friday, spent over an hour with us.

So that's up for you to listen to. A quick reminder, if you have the ability on your podcast platform to rate us or review us. If you could do that, that would be so helpful. I know that Apple offers that and maybe one or two others. If the way you're listening currently doesn't offer that, no worries at all. We've got a lot to get to. I definitely want to talk about the last dance, the two episodes last night, also talk to you about Project 11, the Friday Night documentary, and to tell you about something that I binge watched yesterday that I really, really enjoyed. And I'll share that with you here momentarily. But there's breaking news as we come on here to record the podcast. And the breaking news is

that Don Shula passed away at the age of 90 years old. Shula is for me, and in recent years, I've sort of waffled a little bit back and forth with Belichick and with Shula. But prior to Belichick, you know, was really sort of putting his stamp down as the greatest winner of all time. And then a history, certainly modern era football. Before that, Shula was always my goat. He was always the number one for me, for a lot of reasons, which I'll get into. The statement from the dolphins, Don Shula was the patriarch of the Miami Dolphins for 50 years. He brought the winning edge to our franchise and put the Dolphins and the city of Miami in the national sports scene. Our deepest thoughts and prayers go out to Marianne, along with his children, Dave, Donna Sharon, Ann, and Mike.

Shula is the all-time winningest coach. 328 regular season wins is 10 more than Hallis and 55 more than Belichick and is 347 career wins, which includes 19 playoff wins, the most in NFL history in combination. Belichick, you know, has a significant number of playoff wins, 31 playoff wins, in total to just 12 losses in his 25 years of coaching, whereas Shula in his 33 years of coaching, 19 and 17 as a playoff coach, but the 328 regular season wins the most in NFL history. The reason I've always considered Shula the greatest of all time are certainly in the conversation on a short list of the greatest of all time. And that short list, you know, for me, I can't put

Paul Brown onto that list. Tommy would put Paul Brown onto that list. I know a lot of people would put Paul Brown under that list. I just didn't, I wasn't around to watch him. It doesn't mean that I can't study him. And I think I talked about maybe a month, month and a half ago watching a couple of, you know, football life specials. And the Paul Brown one is fascinating. And I understand the significant impact that he had on the game and the innovator that he was. But for me, you know, post-merger NFL football, You know, that list is Shula, Belichick, you know, Gibbs is on that list, Walsh is on that list, Noel is on that list, you know, Landry is on that list. You know, those are the guys, you know, for me.

And Shula was always at the top of that list. And the reason for that is I just remember Miami's teams being well-coached and never the most talented of teams. Do you know that in 33 years of coaching? seven in Baltimore and 26 in Miami. And he started his career as a Baltimore Colt coach in the NFL at 33 years old, youngest hired to be a head coach in the NFL. And he took the Colts to that 69 Super Bowl, the 68 season they were NFL champions. They played the Jets in Super Bowl 3.

Shula was the coach of that 17-point favorite that lost in one of the biggest upsets in NFL history, if not sports history, Joe Namath's Jets beating the Colts. 16 to 7 in Super Bowl 3. But in 33 years of coaching, Don Shula had two, two sub-500 seasons, two losing seasons out of 33. That's it. And by the way, they were barely losing seasons. In 1976, they finished six and eight. Okay, so that is the least losing season you could have. They only played 14 games back then. So just a game under five. 500, and they were in 1988, 6 and 10. Every other season, better, 500 or better, 31 seasons, 500 or better, in 33 seasons, two losing seasons.

It's a remarkable, remarkable record. And I can remember so many of the teams, you know, my earliest experience watching football are the 70s, you know, Redskins, Cowboys, Rams. Vikings in the NFC and in the AFC, it's the Dolphins, Steelers, and Raiders. The 70s was dominated ultimately by the Steelers, but it was the dolphins who went to three straight Super Bowls to start the decade. They lost to the Cowboys in Super Bowl, that was Super Bowl six. They lost to the Cowboys 24 to 3. Then they won Super Bowl 7 beating the Redskins to complete the perfect season in

1972, and then in 1973, they beat the Vikings to win Super Bowl 8. Shula's dolphins were dominant from 71, really, through 73, 74. Now, in 70, in 74,

that was a, that was the playoff loss to the Raiders. In their attempt to get to a fourth straight Super Bowl, the dolphins played the Sea of Hands game. It's the Clarence Davis catch from Stabler. Stabler was going down on one of the last plays of the game to make it a 28-26 Raiders win over the Dolphins. Man, that's 70s, you know,

dominated by so few teams. The 80s turned out to be similar, you know, especially in the NFC. They're just a handful of teams. You know, in the NFC during the 70s, the Cowboys were obviously the most dominant NFC team of the 70s. The Vikings were dominant. The Rams were great. Redskins were certainly one of those teams that was in the mix. And in the AFC, it was the Dolphins, the Steelers, and the Raiders, basically. You know, you had Denver go to a Super Bowl at the end of the 77 season, and I'm probably missing, you know, one or two others. But it just seemed like either the Dolphins, Steelers, or Raiders were in the Super Bowl during that entire decade. and the dolphins to me didn't now their defenses of those early 70s were great and they obviously ran the ball and they had Hall of Famers, you know, everywhere on that team.

You know, Bob Greasy's a Hall of Famer, Paul Warfield's a Hall of Famer. They had the backfield of Zonka Kick and Mercury Morris. They had a great offensive line with guys like Larry Little. Those teams were great. But I think of some of those teams that weren't as great that he still won with and got to the play. playoffs. In 1978, he got his team to the postseason with an aging Bob Greasy and Don Stroke at quarterback. Not a great team. Got that team to the postseason. 1979, again, the dolphins are in the postseason again with old greasy, old strok, old Zonka

back from the World Football League. These were not great football teams. on paper talented teams, and then there is no better example of Shula's brilliance than the team in 82 that lost to the Redskins in Super Bowl 17. They had David Woodley at quarterback, okay? David Woodley was barely an NFL quarterback. They had Andre Franklin and Tony Nathan. Nathan was in a bad player, but none of these guys were stars, you know, Rose and Cephalo and an older Nat Moore. you know, this was not a great Dolphins team that, by the way, in 1982, had to win three playoff games to get to the Super Bowl. That was the strike short in season in 82, and they had to win three straight to get to the

Super Bowl where they lost to, you know, Rigo and the Redskins 27 to 17. Two years later with Dan Marino at the helm, he was back in the Super Bowl again. He coached in six Super Bowl games, won two of them. Now, that dolphin team of those dolphin teams of the 80s with Marino couldn't run the ball, not necessarily great on defense, but they did have Dan Marino. And yes, they got to the AFC, they got to the Super Bowl in 84 and then got to the AFC title game in 85 and in 90, right? 90 was the year. I think they lost to the bills in the AFC championship game, or maybe that was a few years later. The Bills ended up being their nemesis there at the end. But Shula did it with talent, did it without talent.

It didn't matter. He won. Every turn he won. And those teams always seemed to be smart, disciplined. He was one of the first really good game managers and clock managers. And, you know, he worked in plays at the right time. There's nothing more exciting if you want to go back and watch to me, the greatest playoff game in postseason history.

The January 1982, Orange Bowl classic between the dolphins and the Chargers that went to two overtimes with the performance from Kellynne Winslow, the Chargers won at 41 to 38 in overtime. But they're down 24-0 in that game the Dolphins were. And they rallied back, and at the end of the first half, a hitch-in-pitch play where they threw it to Duryal Harris, who pitched it to Tony Nathan, who went in with the clock. expiring in the first half to cut it to 24-17. Dolphins were back in the game. Shula, you know, wherever he ranks on your list, it's no worse than second or third. You know, if you've got him outside the top five, you're smoking something. Shula is one of the greatest ever. I think he's

right there in the era of me watching football, right there with Belichick. I think maybe in recent years, I may have given Belichick a slight nod, you know, over Shula because of the number of Super Bowls that he's won, but Shula was just phenomenal. Did a lot with less, had some teams that were talented, no doubt those teams in the 70s were, and he did have Dan Marino and only got to one Super Bowl with Dan Marino. They just didn't have enough around Marino. Defensively, they were up and down, never had a running game with Marino. Marino didn't play with Hall of Fame wide receivers either.

You know, the Marks brothers, neither one of them are in the Hall of Fame. But Shula at 90 years old passed away and certainly one of the greatest of all time. That's for sure. Man, those Dolphins teams. They were fun to watch. It was something about watching a Dolphins game in the 70s and 80s, where when they played at home at the Orange Bowl, which, by the way, was a great home field environment. I mean, loud, the South Florida fans, the Dolphins fans were great.

You know, South Florida has often been discussed as a really bad sports town, and it is for the most part. But when the dolphins had it going, those fans were crazy into the dolphins, just like they were into the University of Miami. You know, a football area for sure. And Shula made it that way. It's true when the statement about being the patriarch of the dolphins for 50 years, and he brought, you know, he put the dolphins in the city of Miami on the map basically when it came to sports. He really did that. Special, special coach and special career and life, certainly. Don Shula, anyway, passed away at the age of 90 years old today. A couple of things to get to before we bring in J.P. Finley. So I've got a recommendation

for you. I didn't know anything about this until late last week. I didn't even know that there had been a season of it, but yesterday I binge watched afterlife, afterlife season one, and afterlife season two. It's Ricky Jervais. Ricky Jervase is one of my favorites. That's why I'm actually surprised that I didn't know that this was out there. It is, you know, to describe it, I've got to get into a little bit of detail here. friend of mine, I tweeted out last night. I tweeted out after I'd finished. By the way, it's six

episodes each season and they're 30 minute episodes. So basically I did six hours of afterlife. I broke it up. I had a couple of things I had to do during the course of the day, but watched basically season one without stopping and then watch season two without stopping afterwards. But I tweeted out last night that it was a binge that was totally worth it. Afterlife and Afterlife 2. Ricky Jervais is brilliant, although in a different way this time. And a friend of mine immediately texted me, and he said that he had watched it. And he said, this show can be described in two words.

Hysterically, sad. And that's what it was. like it's funny like you expect a Ricky Gervais show to be. And at the same time, there was a real sad, heart-tugging, emotional element to the show. The show basically, I don't even know how they would describe it. You know, is it a dark comedy? It might be a dark comedy is probably the way they would describe it. But basically, it follows the life of this guy played by Ricky Gervis, who is a feature writer for a small local newspaper in a small fictitious town, I believe, in Britain.

And the show starts with him being incredibly sad about losing his wife recently. His wife passed away from cancer, and she was in her 40s, and he's in his 40s, if not close to 50 years old. and it's that that's the story that's the the backbone for the story is his depression his suicide his suicidal environment that he was he was very suicidal during much of this for the two seasons but at the same time he's got a job where he works for his brother-in-law at this small rinky dink

you know town newspaper where he goes out to report on crazy wacky local stories with a group of people that he works with that are all completely off their rocker in every different way imaginable. He develops relationships with a woman whose husband's grave is right next to his wife's grave. She's an older woman and they develop a relationship. He develops a relationship with the nurse who's taking care of his dying father. It's really good. I mean, I didn't know what to expect. I had a friend of mine say, you're a Jervais fan, you're going to love this, just trust me.

And I started it and I could not stop it. It was that good. Now, I was like after I finished it looking at various comments about the show and people liked the second season better than the first. At least that's what I found. I actually felt the opposite. I thought season one was much better than season two. And that season one, if it had been extended by maybe two,

episodes, that could have been it. There's discussion about a third season, I understand. I don't see where they go with a third season, but it's Jervais like you've never really seen them before, is all I'll say. It was funny. There are just laugh out loud moments, and at the same time, there are truly sort of emotional, you know, heart-tugging portions of this show, too. I loved the show. Absolutely loved it. I haven't, you know, for the most part, binged a lot of stuff.

Like I did that stupid tiger, you know, thing early on, Tiger King, which by the way, sort of in hindsight was a waste of time. I mean, it was, you know, great for the first week or two of the pandemic. I've watched a lot of documentaries. You know, I've obviously been watching the Jordan thing. I watched the Project 11 the other night. I've watched some. football stuff. I've watched a bunch of that stuff. I've watched some movies, but I haven't really binged any shows. Like, you know, some of you have said, well, you got to do Ozark. It's now time for you to get to the wire, which I've never gotten to. But I haven't done that until yesterday. And it was an easy binge because six episodes per season, 30 minutes each. So it ended up

pretty easy to do. Anyway, I really enjoyed it. I just think that he is, as talented and as brilliant as anybody that's been out there. I think the Office, BBC version, is the greatest sitcom of all time. I do love the American office, love it, but was resistant to it for many years because I was very sort of snobbish and pretentious when it came to talking about the original office on BBC with Jervais, which is, again, I would still rank it ahead of the American office, but I've become over the years a massive American office fan too. I mean, I don't know how many times I've watched the American Office all nine seasons,

but I've probably seen each episode no less than three times in some of those episodes, you know, 10, 12 times because it's on all the time, not because I'm Netflixing it all the time, but because it's on the comedy channel seemingly every day and every night. It would certainly seem that way. But anyway, and I loved extras. I thought extras was one of the best ever. That is a follow-up really, right? Extras was after the office, and that's early 2000s, mid, you know, maybe 2004, 2005, right around there.

But that was incredible as well. Yeah, I really, really liked the afterlife. I thought it was phenomenal. By the way, Ashley Jensen, who's in a lot of his things with him over the years, is in this thing as well. Anyway, she was a big part of extras, if you recall. All right, let's talk about Last Dance real quickly, and then we'll bring JP in, and we can talk about the Alex Smith documentary,

which was incredible, too. but last night's episodes of The Last Dance were phenomenal. There's so many parts of it, but I had Tim Legler today on the radio show. And, I mean, he's one of my favorite people. Most of you know that he's been on the podcast many times. I think Tim's great. I think he's a great analyst. And he played during that era.

So he had a lot of interesting things to say. In fact, I don't even know how we got sidetracked on this, but he played with Rashid Wallace. nothing to do with The Last Dance. He said Rashid Wallace for him is the most unselfish player and teammate he's ever had, which I found fascinating because that's not what you would think of Rashid Wallace. You know, Hothead, led the league in technical fouls, never seemed to be a great guy, always seemed to be unhappy, and Legler painted a picture of a completely different guy in in Rashid Wallace. He said selfless.

and a great talent. My God, what a talent Rashid Wallace was. Anyway, I got sidetracked there. My favorite parts of the show last night were, this is not necessarily an order of preference, but more in chronological order. It's first of all, that all-star game at Madison Square Garden

where you see, you know, you see some Kobe, but you see Magic Bird and Michael together, sort of horsing around. Love that. The Nike story, the David Falk, telling of the Nike story and Michael Jordan becoming a Nike client. Some of you know all of the details of this story, and I've heard a lot of stuff over the years, but I don't, for whatever reason, never been super, super interested in all of the

details. Falk told a lot of that to us when he did that lunch with a legend with Tommy and I several years back. But I didn't know this about the Nike story, that first of all, Jordan was an Adidas guy. Didn't want Nike, didn't even want to take the meeting with Nike. And his mother basically talked him into it and said, you got to go on this meeting with David Falk. His father said the same thing. And they went out there and the rest is history. Nike was behind Adidas, behind Reebok in sort of the basketball shoe market. Adidas had a running shoe history, not a basketball shoe history. And it was David Fittes, Falk who I guess came up with the idea to call them Air Jordans. Jordan got a deal that was two and a half times the deal that Converse was offering at the time. And the projected revenue that they

were expecting on his shoes, $3 million by the end of year four, that by the end of year four, they would be generating $3 million a year in shoe sales. That's what essentially the projection you know, that went out. Those were the financial projections that Nike had, and they had an out to get out of the contract at the end of year three or year four based on sales not achieving that level. So here they are with a year four projected, you know, we're going to do three million in sales by the end of year four. In year one, they sold $126 million worth of Air Jordans. 126 million. 42 times projections.

And that's 42 times the year four projection. 42 times. They missed a bit on that one. I thought that the MJ Drexler thing was very interesting. Just the fact that Michael Jordan thought so little of Clyde Drexler, a first-team Hall of Famer. Okay, first-team whole-of-famer was Clyde Drexler. But, man, it seemed that anybody that Jerry Krause liked, Jordan and Pippen torched.

Poor Tony Kukoch in the first game at the 92 Olympics in Barcelona. But I thought it was interesting how you take a first-team, first ballot Hall of Famer and Jordan's thought so little of him. and the reason that he thought so little of him is because he was so much better than Drexler. He was. The Isaiah part of the story again being iced from the dream team, look, I think the takeaway from last night is they all couldn't stand Isaiah Thomas.

Nobody liked him, you know, and nobody wanted him on that team. And Jordan didn't take any sort of ownership of keeping him off that team because he said it wasn't him. That basically, you know, he had. asked the question about who's on the team in a way in which, you know, Rod Thorne, you know, knew who he didn't want on the team, but Jordan wasn't alone. Magic didn't want him on the team. Scotty didn't want him on the team. Bird didn't want him on the team. And Jordan talked about, and I'm paraphrasing here at this point, that the vibe would have been completely different had he

been on the team. You know, some of you have said, well, he sort of made his bed. He had to lie in it being a part of the bad boy teams. But that's not really, I had this conversation with Legler, earlier today. Joe Dumars was well-liked. He was on the bad boy team. If Joe Dumars had been good enough to make the dream team, and he was probably pretty close to making it, he would have been on it. They had a problem with Isaiah. They thought Isaiah was a phony. They thought Isaiah was a first-rate asshole and tool. You know, the smirk and the smile and the baby face and the whole thing, they didn't like them. You know, they didn't like them. You know, they didn't like. Lambeer or Moorne and any of those guys, but they really didn't like Isaiah. Isaiah was clearly

one of the best 12 players, if not one of the best five or six players in the world at that point, and he was kept off the team. The activist stuff with Jordan was interesting. He had the explanation last night for why he wasn't active, and he was criticized throughout his career, you know, especially as an African American with his kind of profile, with his kind of platform. And people in that community wanted him to be more active. And they focused in on a North Carolina Senate election between the segregationist and racist Jesse Helms and Harvey Gant. And Jordan wouldn't campaign for him, wouldn't endorse him. Now, he did apparently spend money on Gant's campaign.

But Jordan basically explained it this way, and he was talking about him versus Ali. He said, look, nothing against people who are activists. Quote, I wasn't an activist. You know, if I inspired you to be great because of where my energy was, which was basketball, singular focus, then great. And if I'm not the person that you wanted to follow and be inspired by because I wasn't an activist, that's fine too. You know, I don't know how you can really argue with that. This wasn't something he was interested in. It wasn't something that came naturally to him in terms of curiosity or interest level.

He's one of the greatest competitors of all time. He was so singularly focused on being the greatest of all time. That's all that mattered to him. That in getting his competitive Jones off, which we'll get to here a moment. But, you know, his famous line, Republicans buy sneakers too. You know, he said it was sort of a throwaway line on a team bus or plane, I forget, and everybody's around, and he was sort of joking, but, you know, obviously got blown up, and people didn't like that. I don't know why, you know, we feel compelled to, you know, make our diversions, sports, and, you know, the,

the heroes if you view them that way any more than what you're, you know, enjoying and diverted by, you know, what they're great at. It doesn't mean they're going to be great at anything else. It doesn't mean that they're going to be interested in anything else. So I thought his answer was really direct, straightforward, and more than acceptable. The gambling stuff, the Slim Buller, saw somebody tweet out, we need a 10-episode documentary on Slim Bowler. Jordan lost 57,000 to him on the golf course, lost $1.2 million to Richard Esquinas. Jordan said about gambling.

I don't have a gambling problem. I've got a competition problem. Look, here's the bottom line on all this. For those of you that say that who cares, he's got more money than God, he can afford it. That's missing the point entirely. Okay? I'm a little bit familiar with this, okay, not at that level, but it's not about how much money you have.

If you have a gambling addiction, a gambling sickness, you will burn through millions and millions of dollars. Many have, many have. Now, would you've gone through all hundreds of millions, if not billion dollars gambling? Who knows? But that's not the point. A gambling sickness is a sickness, and it's not healthy. whether you're losing money you can afford or not losing money you can afford. And it puts you at risk of being compromised, especially when, and this is the second part of this,

you are potentially exposed to less than perfect people. You know, the slim bowlers and the richer-esquenesses of the world, who knows how that stuff could break? It's your association with these people that the league has to be concerned about. The league should have investigated it. And I don't know that they didn't punish him in some way, shape, or form. Maybe we'll learn that next week. The bottom line is, it has nothing to do with how much money and whether or not he can afford it. No one can afford to have a gambling addiction and sickness.

Now, he says he could stop and he was able to stop at any time, which would be a sign that it never got completely carried away, that it was much more of a competitive thing. And I can tell you that there is definitely a link between being sort of hypercompetitive as a person, and gambling. You know, it's this feeling of constantly competing and constantly trying to win. And by the way, with gambling, thinking you're smarter than everybody else.

Why do you think the smell test exists? Because I thought I was smarter than everybody for a while, and then I recognized I wasn't. My friends and I all recognized that Vegas, the house, much smarter than we are. So that's the side we want to be on. I enjoyed the two episodes last night. I thought the stuff from the Dream Team in Barcelona was great.

The Horace Grant stuff was interesting, but really to me it was, you know, the Isaiah stuff, the activist stuff, the gambling stuff, the Dream Team stuff. And man, that Nike story is an all-timer. All right, let's bring in J.P. Finley from NBC Sports, Washington. And I've actually saved part of what I was going to do today for you, and that is the Alex Smith Project 11 documentary. which I want to start with, and then we'll get to, because I don't think we've talked since the draft, we'll catch up on all things Redskins-related. But what did you think of the Alex Smith documentary? It was really well done.

You know, credit to him for allowing the cameras in like that. I wrote a pretty long piece on NBC Sports Washington Monday morning, just about kind of just getting a no-out. us a little bit and not necessarily being surprised by any of what I saw outside of, I mean, the graphic stuff you saw there and the, you know, it's kind of towards

the end of that show was certainly I mean, just terrifying. He's an incredible person and impressive, and I'm not surprised he's going to keep pushing and isn't ruling football out. I don't know that it'll ever happen. I don't know that it should happen.

But what can you say about them besides just be, you know, awestruck? The first thing after this show was, and this is going to sound harsh, but it's not meant to be. It's actually a wish from my standpoint, is that he's never going to play football again. After seeing that leg after the multiple, you know, procedures to stop the back to the back. the flesh-eating bacteria. And what was left of that leg from the knee down to the ankle, I mean, come on. Did anybody watch that and say,

well, this guy's going to play professional football again? With that said, what I'd be clear about is, my God, I would hope and pray that he gets back to the point where he could do it. It would seem miraculous to me based on the grotesque shots of that leg, especially during that phase, which came within a week after the injury, this flesh-eating bacteria. But I would love it if he got back to the point where he could play, but I hope he never plays again. My God, why would anybody want him other than maybe a ceremonial snap in a pre-season game?

Why would anybody want when you see his lovely wife, his super young kids, and what he went through to just be able to walk again on two legs, because at one point, you know, his wife actually asks Dr. Robin West, the team doctor, what would you do? And she said, I would amputate. I would amputate the leg. They were so, he was close to losing his life. He was even closer to losing his leg.

And after what we saw on Friday night, and I know we've heard a lot about this leading up to it, but I don't want him to play football again. He's got a young family. He's got all the money he'll ever need. I just also incredibly respect the perspective he had during this show, you know, the comeback that he's already made. I mean, you see him on that field with his young kids sort of jukeing Barry Sanders style

to stay away from, you know, the young kids. But I don't want him to play again. Yeah, I don't think he will. but I mean, I've seen him, and I wrote a little bit about this, like I've seen him on a football field dropping back, and this was last October, November. I mean, I think he's just wired so differently that he feels he has to get all the way back,

and maybe that's just part of his process for knowing that he's conquered this terrible, terrible injury and infection and everything else. But no, I don't think he'll play again, I mean, on some level, a doctor would have to clear him for NFL activity, and I'm not sure that would ever happen either. Yeah. But I think he's going to stay involved with the organization. The only thing I think, I know the family of the home in Hawaii, like, if they ever decided they just didn't want to live here, then I think it would kind of be a natural evolution.

like if they wanted, I think he's from California. They haven't played, you know, if they decide they want to live in California or live elsewhere, I think that could change it. But I think as long as Alex is here, he will have a role in the organization, what that will look like. I don't know. But, you know, he's still getting a big old guaranteed check this year. Next year is where contractually and positionally, I guess, things get interesting because the guaranteed money will be off the deal. and you'd have to think the team would move on at that point,

but I mean, that's a conversation for a different day. You know, I don't know why I haven't thought of this before. Is any of this to ensure that part of the contract that's guaranteed for injury gets paid out rather than him retiring because of this? He will eventually retire because of this. but does some sort of earnest effort to get back into football shape, is that part of the contract? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer.

I don't know like a legal wording answer, but I know this. I know that he is incredibly close with the owner, with Dan Snyder, and nothing is being done. Like, Alex isn't working hard to get paid. Like, he would get paid because this year, for sure. And I don't think they're keeping him around at the facility or something because of terms of the contract. Like, the relationship seems very real and very genuine. And I think next year when the guarantees go away and the cap numbers up to almost 25 mil, and you'd have a quarterback that would be 37, I think the decision,

I mean, I remember when they signed the extension, how it was reported versus, actuality, I mean, it was really a three-year deal worth about 60 mil. That was the real numbers. But everybody gets caught up in the big overall numbers. I think it was 71 million was guaranteed in a $94 million deal. I thought $71 million of it was guaranteed. And then he was also playing on that last year of the Kansas City contract. Maybe the $71 million included the final year of what he had left on his deal when he got traded. I'm pretty sure that the Redskins... No, because it's just an extension.

The last year of the KC. deal paid him like 18, I think. Yeah. And then they extended on top of it. Yeah. So the only year he actually played in Washington was on the last year of the KC deal. That's right. 2020 and 2019 were Bruce's extension. Right.

we'd have to go back and now it kind of doesn't matter. Whatever. I mean, 60, 71, it doesn't matter. It was a huge, it was a big contract extension for a guy who at the time when he got the contract extension was going to be 35 or 36 years old, 35 years old, I think, because he was 34 when he played in 2018. It's funny because in this conversation about Alex Smith, I had somebody called the radio station and say, why do you hate Alex Smith? so much. And I don't know why I'm bringing this up, but it just wasn't true. I actually was a big Alex Smith fan in Kansas City. And I was okay with the trade. I didn't love the extension. I remember at the time saying, why did they need to do this now? You know, why did they need to do it for so long and for so much money? And, you know, part of me, too, JP at the time was like, I can't believe they're offering this guy what they're offering him. And they could have had, you know,

Kirk a couple of years earlier for a fraction of the cost. But I remember at the time I didn't like giving up Kendall Fuller. That was my objection. I thought... I didn't mind that. I mean, the hindsight

on the Alex Smith extension and the trade is damn near impossible because who knows what would have happened? Like I mean, that team was two games clear in the division, and they had a bunch of backload of games, and maybe they finished at 8 and 8, who knows.

But they got to, I mean, they got to 7 and 9 with Josh Johnson playing three games. You know, like, who knows how the compensation, the extension, all of it could have looked so different. And, I mean, if you want to be, you know, you can just judge the situation for what happened with a massive injury and what will end up being like $43 million spent over two years with a player that's not going to play. But I don't know. The whole thing, it's hard to even, like, go back and talk about what he was providing

to the skin early on in 2018 because they were winning games, but the offense was kind of a slog, if you remember. No doubt. A lot of control on the clock and field position. I mean, you pull up these stat lines. Not a lot jumps off the page, you know, but at the same time, I remember talking to guys in that locker room,

like the leadership and intangible stuff that if you're a sheep, it's so important in the NFL, and if you're a cynic, it seems like it's kind of non-existent and players make plays. the reality is somewhere in the middle there, and I remember talking to Chris Thompson at the end of the year, and Thompson found like real success playing with Kirk.

And Chris was like a nice, honest guy, and I remember him talking about Alex after the year and just saying that it was a feeling in the locker room unlike any other time he had been with the Redskins. You know, he had been there for a little bit of RG3. All of Kirk's kind of rise to prominence, And he just said, like, the veteran steady leadership of Alex is something the organization never had.

And that's real and obviously advantage. I mean, he has had that said about him at every turn. You know, what was interesting about this documentary is the lack of Redskins' presence, you know, was conspicuous by their absence. Snyder, Allen, key members. Now, there was Vernon Davis, who was really talking about his days in San Francisco. disco. Yeah, and there was a clip from Adrian Peterson, but the coaches on that show were, you know,

Jim Harbaugh and Urban Meyer and Andy Reid, you know, and... Well, but all of that, the urban stuff and the Harbaugh stuff looked to be old. Like, like they had the footage. Like, the only fresh interview in there from a coach seemed to me like Reed. No, no, no. I understand that. I'm just saying that you had every single one of his coaches except for the coach that was coaching him during the season that he got injured in. And I had Stefania Bell who produced this and was the reporter on this on the radio show Thursday.

And she said to me, she said, and I think my question was, you know, how supportive, how involved and how much did the Redskins know when he was. going through all this. And she said that Alex has gone out of his way to, you know, say how supportive Dan and Bruce were during that time in the organization as a whole and how great they were with his family. But they weren't a part of this documentary is my only point. They weren't in it at all. Yeah, that's a fair. I mean, yeah, they weren't. You know, I wonder, because I remember, like, they've been filming this for a while. Yeah. Like, the scene of Alex walking out, to FedEx Field and back with his wife. I mean, that was early last season.

Like, I want to say that was in late September, because I remember that. And just like the behind the curtain for your listeners, like every local media person was trying to get an Alex interview. And, like, the people on the beat, like, as a beat reporter with the other beat reporters, we were like, can we just have a press conference? We all have questions.

and the answer was no, no, no. He's doing this ESPN thing. You know, it's kind of an exclusive. And then he did the one interview with, well, there was a local one he did. Where they were in the massage chairs. I'm blanking on, you remember that? I'm blanking on. Vaguely.

Was it Cherry Burris? No, no, no, no. It was, whatever. I don't remember. But, you know, ultimately, maybe the reason for that is, you know, I think we all heard things about how serious it was. Tommy, I think, was the first report that there were 17 to 18 surgeries involved, and I don't think we had heard that before, and that was like the middle of last season, maybe early in the season, I forget when it was. Angie golf, sorry. Oh, Angie golf.

Who is she? Who's she with? I forget. Fox 5. Oh, Fox 5. Yes. and Twitter to 5 and started a new podcast. Sorry.

No, no. You know what? It's great that you're able to pull it. That means that everything's clear in your head. Oh, I Google. Oh, see, that's not good. I've had a neurologist tell me that, look, here's the bottom line. You know, you get to a certain age and you start to forget things.

But if you really work hard at it, you can pull it, like going through the alphabet to remember a name and you're able to pull it, there's nothing wrong with you. It's just basically a lack of sleep. Anyway, I digress. I'll work on that. By the way, my comment about no Redskins really being a part of it, it was just an observation. I'm not being critical of it because I know and I've been told how great Snyder has been, you know, to the Smiths and to Alex Smith. And by the way, that's where he's always been great.

You know, when people are in need and have, you know, life circumstances, family circumstances, is in every player that's ever played for him has always said that he's always been incredibly helpful in those spots. But I want to go back to... Yeah, and it's not just players. I mean, I've seen him. I've heard stories. I've seen things with staffers at Redskins Park, and, you know, there are people that

will swear by his generosity. Yeah, and that doesn't get talked about, you know. But back to the 2018 season, you know, because this has been an interesting debate that I'm sure you've had with people and I've had with people. over the years. Like, here's, now, you know, it was a house of cards, in my opinion. I think it was headed to eight and eight. Maybe they get to nine and seven and make the playoffs, but they were not a good

offensive football team. In fact, they weren't even that good defensively. Every good offensive team they played, they got lit up by, you know, even early in the season, New Orleans and Atlanta are the two teams that come to mind. Tampa should have won. That Falcon's game. Yeah. Tampa is the first team.

That same game was. was a hornet's mess. I mean, Drew Bree is about to break the record in the dome. Understood. Yeah. But that Falcons game at home, I remember that one. Because I think it was like 21-14 and then I think it was 21-7. And then if I remember it right, like the skin scored before halftime. It's like, all right, take a breath, catch, you know, come out at halftime.

And then they got beat deep Calvin and Ridley to go up like 20. 14 at a half time, and it was just a wrap. So I don't remember. I don't know that they were a house of cards because there were other bad teams. If you look at the back half of that schedule, you know, they beat the Jaguars. They almost beat the Titans with Josh Johnson. I think they get to at least nine wins. They were at six.

Well, nine, nine may have done it. I'm not, I'm not going to debate you on whether or not they would have gotten to nine and been a six seed in the playoffs. I just didn't think they were a good team. Now, I did think this was the team that actually was well coached for that six and two, six and three start. They didn't commit mistakes. They won the turnover battle.

They were winning field position battle. They were stopping the run and running the football, which was huge. It was one of the things I remember saying very clearly about Alex Smith when he got here. You've got to be able to run the football or it'll be a disaster. It won't work with him. And he always was one of those quarterbacks, and this is not a criticism. it's just that most quarterbacks that are good need a lot around them. He wasn't at that elite level.

No one would have ever put him there. But anyway, the point that I was going to make was that, you know, that Houston game was going to make him six and four. It was one of his worst games that he was in the process of. He had to pick six early, right? Yeah, or a hundred-yard return, I think. He had a couple of turnovers in that game. The Dallas Thanksgiving Day game short week,

then Philly on a Monday night, it was very possible that they were heading to six and six. But again, nine and seven, whatever. The point that I was going to make is this one. What a lot of people didn't know about that time, and you know this, I'm pretty sure, is, you know, the person that was most frustrated with Alex and the offense was the head coach. There was very, and I've talked about this before, it was not a great fit. Bruce made that trade. it was not the best fit for Gruden necessarily,

and Gruden was pulling his hair out at times. Now, look, Gruden was a perfectionist. I don't think that Dan Marino would please Jay Gruden, and it's just the way he was, you know, he was that way with Kirk towards the end, but early in that season, there was major frustration and disconnect between he and Alex. Not that he didn't like Alex and didn't understand and respect the leadership part of him, but it wasn't the best of fit. Now, doesn't mean that it wasn't on the verge of becoming a better fit.

They had only been together for one-off season and nine games. It takes a while at that position. But it was a frustrating passing offense for sure. It was not Alex Smith's best year by a long shot. Well, and there were a couple of factors, right? I mean, for how long did Jay want to go with Colt? Yeah. I think he wanted to go with Colt.

they knew Kirk was finally going to, there's no way they could have tagged him again. Kirk was finally going to go and it was Colts Chan and then they trade for Alex. And I don't think people realize how Bruce operated with some of these high level moves. He just made them and didn't

consult with anyone. Like the way people talk about Josh Norman and other decisions that got made. So the Alex trade was just kind of thrown in Jay's lap and absolutely you got a quarterback who really protects the football and doesn't take a lot of

and you remember the back and forth between Jay and Kirk. It may have been the year before where Jay said, you know, if Kirk said something like, yeah, if I did it Jay's way, I'd throw 20 interceptions. And Jay responded the next day, he's like, yeah, well, he'd also have a 60 touchdown. So I think you're right. on there. Yeah, he was so demanding. You know, I don't know if I've told this story before, and maybe you have and maybe you know it or maybe you don't. But the funny thing about Jay and Kirk is in that beginning of that 2017 season, Jay really felt like this was a chance for them

to do it. You know, they came back and beat the Rams and the Coliseum. They blew out the Raiders on a Sunday night. Kirk, the offense looked awesome if they could stay healthy, which ultimately they didn't, as we know. Defensively, they had added John Allen and DJ Swaranger, and they seemed to be at least capable and competitive defensively. And that game at Arrowhead, you know, Josh Doxon basically drops the winning touchdown pass. It's right there. They lose, Alex Smith drives them. They lose on a walk, not a walk-off field goal because he had that crazy play at the end that made it a nine-point win. But Jay and Kirk were humming, and Jay felt like they had a shot. And by the end of that year, with all of the injuries,

you know, that they had. And the Chris Thompson injury in New Orleans was the one that really, I think. That broke the season. Yeah, that broke the season. And that giving up that leave, that New Orleans game was, I mean, I'll never forget that game. But Jay and Kirk, in either that Arizona or Denver game at home, I forget which one it was, but apparently they were MFing each other in headsets back and forth, and it was over. I mean, it was definitely over.

But to your point, the thing about. Colt McCoy, is this really was who Jay. Jay would have been fine had they not drafted a quarterback or traded for Alex Smith. And when Alex did get hurt, let's both be honest about this. Jay deep down didn't want Alex to be hurt, but he thought that the offense was on the verge of taking off with Colt on that Thanksgiving Day game. And then Colt broke his leg against the Eagles the next week. Yeah, I think because of the tight turnaround, it was a Sunday game and then there was And then they played Thursday night. They played Thursday Thanksgiving Day in Dallas after that.

Right. And Colt hadn't had a snap with the first team offense in years. Right. Because it was Kirk for years and then Alex and Colt that really didn't get much work. So the excitement really bubbled. I remember how excited everybody was for Colt going into Philly. Right. Because that was a Thursday game.

So then they had all week and then the following week, and that was a Monday night game in Philly. And you're right. Like Jay Colt, the team, I mean, there was real confidence. Because at that point, they're still six and five. Yeah. And the Eagles weren't great that year. I think they went nine and seven that year.

So there was, I mean, of course, nobody ever wanted the injury. But there was confidence in Colt, and then Colt breaks his leg. I mean, I reported this forever ago now. And when the skin first, the second tag they gave Kirk when it jumped up to 24 mil, there were definitely people in that building. They were like, man, just play Colt and spend the 20 million elsewhere. Colt was going to cost you two and a half or whatever the number was. You know, I think Kirk has proven to be better than that.

Well, yeah. I don't think they were comparable. I don't think they were comparable then, but there was, there was animus, you know, between Kirk's camp and, you know, and, and ownership. So, you know, there was a lot. I remember, you know, being told various things and I was just like, well, they're fucking wrong. Like you just saying that. Well, if they think that about him, they're wrong. Like, Colt McCoy's a backup in this league. Give me a fucking break. And I was like, if they really feel that way, trade him now to the 49ers or the Rams who were, you know, a possibility there for a brief moment.

It was a possibility. Yeah. I mean, how that all got handled is just so shocking and dumb. It is. So real quickly, because I know you've got to run, but we haven't talked since the draft or the Trent Williams trade. Let's start with the draft. Just give me your, you know, give me 60 seconds on what you think they got and what you're

hearing that they're excited about. So it's kind of I don't separate the draft from Trent And I think those are the two most important things They got Chase Young and they traded Trump Williams And I like the draft I like Antonio Gandy Golden a lot I know there's a lot of excitement about Gibson

Again he's an explosive athlete You got to have Scott Turner put him in the right spot Some interesting things are going to happen in that running back room I like the draft I think if you get Sadiq Charles to be a player, especially if you can play right away, then your draft is a 10 out of 10. I think Chase Young is that dude. I think Chase Young is going to win defensive rookie of a year.

I think he is a real, real difference maker on and off the field. And then I think getting rid of Trent Williams and doing the deal with San Fran is very important. One thing I need to write about this at some point. But throughout, people always want to bring up the stuff around saying and compare it to what Shanahanham said or go back further to what Schopenheimer said. You know, when you get these coaches that are, you know, have winning track records and big personalities and they're going to come and run things their way or the highway. And then eventually it just gets overruled, right? Yeah. But in all of those scenarios, there was a conduit between the coach and Dan.

And it was Vinny and then it became Bruce. And I think it's really important that there is no more conduit. Ron, I think Ron makes a point of talking about Dan all the time to make clear that he's the one talking to Dan. And I think between Ron, Rob Rogers, and Kyle Smith, you kind of know who's really running the organization. I think Kyle's a no-nonsense dude. I think Kyle shoots straight. And I think that is welcome. And I think if you look at all of that big picture,

I don't think this team can be very good in 2020. Let me be clear about that. I think the goal should be doubling the win total and having the defense be significantly better, you know, jump 10, 12 spots to be the top half of the league defense. But then I think there's real momentum for 2021. The, I want to, you said something, I'm going to go back to it. I wrote it down.

The Albert Breer wrote in the Monday morning quarterback this morning that the key to the deal with the 49ers was Ron Rivera's relationship with John Lynch in particular. They've known each other and they had a very close relationship. And Breer, of course, wrote about the fact that, you know, the Redskins had not had a good, you know, Dan Snyder in particular, who still left, you know, didn't necessarily in the past want to deal with the 49ers, with Kyle. And the thought of Kyle and Trent Williams being together and winning a Super Bowl next year is in a pleasant one, which, by the way, speaks to something that I've really thought for a while now,

and that it was not just Bruce Allen in the organization that had a problem with Trent Williams over the last year. It was more than just Bruce. There was a real feeling of anger and betrayal and a lot of other things going on there, which is why, you know, I wonder, and, you know, people will eventually let bygones be bygones, but I wonder whether or not Trent Williams will ever be in the Redskins Ring of Fame. You said something real quickly, though. You said, interesting thing is going to happen in that running. back room. What do you think's going to happen in the running back with respect to the depth

chart and the roster? Who's not going to be on this roster when and if we get an opening day in a final cut down day in August or September? I don't see how we count on Bryce Love until we at least see him practice. Right. Who else? I mean, if you look at the contract structure for Peyton Barber and J.D. McKissick, those guys are expensive. but I also think Scott Turner really likes McKissick. McKissick, I thought, was the lock until they drafted Gibson. I know that a lot of people have pointed to AP. I don't see that at all.

I think AP is important to the organization beyond just what happens on the field. I don't think it's AP, though, if that's what you're asking. I know you got to go. Appreciate it. We'll talk soon. Stay safe. Stay safe. Stay well. Sounds good, man. Take care.

All right. I know that ended quickly. He got a call. We edited that portion out. He got a call he had to take, so we let him go. He spent a good half hour with us anyway. All right. You know, I basically mentioned the other thing that I was going to talk about,

which is this Albert Breer story that came out on Monday morning quarterback, where he really details the Trent Williams to San Francisco trade and talks about a relationship that Ron Rivera and John Lynch and a trust between the two of those that made this deal happen. Netting it out, it looked like there was going to be a deal before the draft, but Ron Rivera didn't pull the trigger on it and said to John, we have to wait, there's more interest now, and we've got to wait. And Lynch trusted them, and if you recall, in the draft, in the first round,

the 49ers had a left tackle need. They knew Joe Staley was basically out. And they drafted Javon Kinlaw after trading with the Buccaneers and flipping spots and picking up a fourth rounder. And they knew the Buccaneers were going to draft Tristan Wirth's. So on Thursday night, even though they had been told during the day that the Trent Williams deal, the Redskins had to wait on. And presumably it was because Minnesota was very much involved and maybe someone else. But the 49ers took the risk and passed on Tristan Wirthes, the offensive task,

out of Iowa, gave Tampa, Worf's picked up a fourth by swapping spots, and they drafted Javon Kinlaw, who was number one, their number one target at 13. Had they stayed at 13, they were at 14 now, they still got Kinlaw. But then the focus became Trent Williams. Can they get Trent Williams? Because they took Brandon Ayuk, traded into that first round with Iyuk with Seattle, I'm sorry, with Minnesota at 25.

and they didn't have a left tackle answer. And then on Saturday morning, which was the third day of the draft, the Redskins called Rivera Lynch and Rivera said, okay, it's time to get the deal done. The reason it was a fifth this year, a third next, and not something better this year, is the 49ers didn't have anything else this year. You know, they picked up the fourth from Tampa on night one.

But to get the third next year, they took the fifth. And apparently that was the deal. that they had been talking about prior to the draft. So anyway, there's more detail in that Breer story that you can go read. But basically, the net of it was that Lynch and Rivera had a really good relationship. They had a deal basically almost set to go pre-draft, and then I think Rivera and the Redskins backed off momentarily because they were getting action from other teams.

At least one of the other teams would have been Minnesota. We know that Minnesota was very much involved in that deal as well. I think I mentioned this earlier. If you miss Cooley on Friday, go back and listen to Cooley on Friday. Had some very interesting thoughts about the Redskins draft. Antonio Gibson in particular, he thinks he thinks is an H-back. And there was a lot more there. You can listen to that.

In terms of other things from over the weekend, you know, we talked about the documentaries. There is an ESPN study out, which is rather interesting. says that a majority of sports fans surveyed said they are in favor of watching televised sports without fans rather than waiting for sports to resume only when fans can be in attendance. It was like a survey of like over a thousand fans identifying themselves as sports fans. And 65% of those people said, I want sports back even if there's no crowd. I think we'd all agree with that at this point, right? Certainly for football season.

I don't want to get to September without football season. I also think it's very interesting what you're seeing in college football. You know, the whole possibility of a college football season because students won't be allowed back on campus in September, I know we're getting ahead of ourselves. I'm just, you know, basically reacting to various stories. There are, you know, lots of different plans in place for college football. and some of the leagues themselves like the SEC are talking about essentially going by themselves,

you know, and saying, you know, we may make the decision to play games even if our students aren't on campus. I think I talked about this on Friday on the podcast with Cooley, but, you know, think about if this had happened a year ago. There would have been no Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow a year ago was a projected like sixth rounder in the NFL draft. If this had happened a year ago and you had had a significantly reduced college football season, you may not have had a Joe Burrow situation. Tua probably would have been the number one pick. Anyway, I'm done for the day.

Thanks to JP for joining us. Always good to catch up with JP. And thanks to Aaron, who's been doing a great job from home, producing and getting this thing out on social media, etc. Have a great day, Tommy. We'll be with me tomorrow.