The Kevin Sheehan Show - Alex Smith: Team Was "Patronizing"

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

Kevin and Thom today with a recap of the Wizards win over Golden State to start. Thom's recent column in the Washington Times contemplated why Dan Snyder would be taking the risk of going after Bruce Allen. The boys discussed that. Kevin talked about the potential for Washington draft day trades....the first, a big trade up for a QB and second, a lesser trade up for a non-QB. And finally, a revealing story in Sports Illustrated about Alex Smith described a coaching staff that Smith said was "patronizing" to him while Smith's father claimed Washington tried to "sabotage" Alex's return.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Beal trying to get free for a shot, having trouble. Gets it to the Bertons, who gets it off in time. Huge play by Davish Bertons.

Great fine by Bradley Bill. Make it six wins, Tommy, in a row for your now potential playoff-bound Washington Wizards. Tommy's with me today. Cooley's getting knee surgery. He wants to be on this show tomorrow. We'll see if he can make it. If not, we'll do something with Cooley on Saturday to get some of his latest draft film breakdowns. A reminder to all of you, if you haven't subscribed, doesn't cost you anything.

Helps us. Also, especially on Apple Podcasts, if you can rate us and review us if you haven't done that, it takes less than 30 seconds. That helps us as well. We've got a few things to get to, including literally as we started to record this podcast or shortly before, because Tommy read the entire article, a story in Sports Illustrated that is very deep on Alex Smith and the time here. and some things that he said in this story written by Greg Bishop that we haven't heard before as it related to the organization. We will get to that.

Tommy wrote a column. We'll cover that. And a few other things NFL draft related. But I do want to start with the Wizards because, you know, early in the year, remember, we discussed, and I know I did it on the radio show, and I know I did it with you. We discussed whether or not you would go back and redo the Wall for Westbrook trade. Wall started off in Houston looking like the old John Wall, and Westbrook was not very good. He was coming off an injury, and you know, you know me.

I've been a lifelong Westbrook fan, but even I was like, I think we got him way too late. It's just not, I mean, this is not the same Russell Westbrook. That was a reasonable knee-jerk reaction. So reasonable knee-jerk. Is that a contradiction? Is that an oxymoron? I guess knee-jerk isn't the right word, but I mean, your first thoughts would think at that point that, you know,

the wizard's got the short end of this deal. Okay. I felt that way. I'll admit it. And I love Russell Westbrook. And one of the big questions I had on the trade was, were we getting Russell Westbrook too long after his prime? And were we giving away John Wall with John Wall's potential to come back healthy?

You know, Wall hasn't been terrible, but he's missed a lot of games on an absolutely terrible team. Westbrook started poorly. And now, Tommy, I think it's very clear. He is the leader of this team. He and Beal play well together, and he understands when to defer to Beal and vice versa. But Russell Westbrook is the heart and soul of this basketball team. He is, first of all, do you know that he's now eight triple doubles away from Oscar Robertson's career high of 181 of tying it and then nine away from breaking it? He could do it this year because he's basically got a triple double almost every night, and they still have 13 games.

left. My sense is he probably will break Oscars' all-time record this year. Last night, by the way, I didn't think was a very impressive overall game for Westbrook or Beale, for that matter, but 14 points, 20 rebounds, 20 rebounds for a 6'3-inch guard and 10 assists. Somebody asked me this morning, is he the greatest rebounding guard of all time? I know Oscar was 6-5. He's 6-3. It's either Oscar or Westbrook. It's one of the two.

A Jason Kidd was a pretty good rebounder. But Westbrook is incredible as a rebounder. It's ridiculous. Yes, he is. Now, here's the thing. It's a good time to be a rebounding guard in the league. Okay? Because there's not a lot of rebounders under the basket anymore.

So it's a good time. If you're a guard that happens to be interested in rebounding, there's opportunities for you. Okay. But at the same time, there were more opportunities back then because shooting percentages were lower. I get that. And by the way.

Because the ball wasn't reaching out to where the guards play. Well, okay, that's true, too. That's a fair point. Guards weren't asked to go in and rebound. Right. Oscar for his... They got to go in and rebound for the seven-footers that are putting up 30-foot shots.

Oscar for his career averaged seven and a half rebounds a game. Russell Westbrook for his career is averaging 7.3 rebounds a game. So, you know, Russ is going to have his fourth season of averaging a triple double. As we know, Oscar did it just once. Once or twice? Once. He just did it once. So anyway, you know, I was thinking about something, and I do want to talk about the game,

and I won't make it long, I promise. But I was thinking about something. A friend of mine texted me last week and said, You know, it's not going to be crazy that if Russell Westbrook has a couple of years, like the one we're watching, that we could say that Russell Westbrook is one of, if not the greatest player in franchise history. I think, I mean, I would never. Well, you can't say he's the greatest player in franchise history.

Again. I would never put him in front of Velvet. I would never put him in front of Elvin Hays or Wes Unsilth. Okay. But if he has, let's just say, three years between 32, 32, 33, 33, 35. years old of averaging a triple double over the next three years. He's in the conversation of like the great four or five players ever. Absolutely.

Yes. I would agree with you. I mean, you know, unfortunately, it's really hard to say that about a player unless they at least have some playoff success. And the Wizards aren't going to have playoff success this year. you know, maybe next year they will. By the way, you know, all of this is making it more likely that Beal does stay here. Now, you know, he's younger and he's going to have a significant part of the backside of his career without Russ more likely than not. But playing with...

He's got a supermax deal coming up. Yeah, I know. I know. But remember, we were just talking a few, you know, weeks ago before the trade deadline of, you got to get rid of them because you're not going to have him after next year and you're going to get nothing in return. You're right. So last night's game real quickly, the bottom line is, yes, they played good defense on Steph Curry, but so do a lot of teams play good defense on Steph Curry, and it doesn't matter. Steph Curry could not hit the broad side of a barn or hit the ocean from a boat to old-fashioned

boomer expressions when talking about a bad shooting night in basketball. He had a wide open three with about two minutes to go that didn't even hit the rim. I mean, this is a guy that's been on one of the best roles of all time. And I think I suggested it on the podcast yesterday. I definitely did on the radio show. The game that they played against Philadelphia a couple of nights ago was just a draining game. It was an intense game. It was a comeback win for Golden State.

It was really, you could tell, a physically draining game for everybody involved. And Curry had 49 and went off for 20 in the fourth quarter. And I actually, you know, on the radio show yesterday anyway, you can go back and listen to it. I said, I like the Wizards plus two. I think they might be catching Golden State in a spot in which they're coming off this big win. And it was really an exhausting win. And that's what Curry was last night. He was exhausted.

And it was just one of those nights in a league that plays 82 games where you got one of the four or five nights of the year that he was just not Steph Curry, which is great because it benefited the Wizards. They did play good defense on them. You know, they were switching. They were trying to run them off, you know, ball screens with hard hedges and doubles. And that led to a lot of easy layups for the Warriors in the first half in particular. But even when he got shots off that weren't closely concerned. tested bricks, total bricks. That's why they won the game. Now, the other reason they won the game is Westbrook at the end of the game and then Beale followed him just was relentlessly on the attack.

There's a stretch of that game. They're down 11. They cut it to 8 and Westbrook goes on three straight possessions, two layups, and a foul and two free throws. Six points, cut an eight-point lead to and they were right back in it, and then Beal took it over from there attacking the rim. And one of the key plays of the game was Beal on a possession at 112, 110, with about a minute to go, doubled. You know, Bertons is in the corner, and Bertons makes a really good cut into the middle of the lane. Beal finds them.

Lay up, they're up four. The thing I hated about the final 55 seconds is that Scott Brooks took out Gafford, who had three blocks in the game, 10 rebounds, 19 points in 24 minutes, and decided he'd go with a smaller lineup to switch every screen. I don't think you'd do that with 55 seconds, maybe with 25 seconds, and what it led to was two easy layups for Steph Curry, and then they couldn't handle the pressure, and the Warriors had the ball with a chance to tie,

and Wiggins missed a layup. I mean, it was a contested layup, missed a layup, and the Wizards won the game. Right now, they're playing well. I'm not going to make the mistake that you would then turn around and hang me on to suggest they are a good team. They are playing well. They've had a favorable schedule for the most part, and it's favorable the rest of the way. They're in the 10 spot right now they have the opportunity actually to climb into the 9th spot.

They're only two and a half games out of the 9 spot or 2 games. You know, it's a great time to do it because, and I'm serious when I say this, the fans are allowed back now. Now, it's a limited amount of fans, but they timed this surge perfectly for, you know, for their tortured fan base. At least people can get to see a probably what will be, like you said, based on their schedule, if nothing else, a strong finish by this team. You know, Tommy, do you know how hard? one of those 21 tickets was to get last night because I mean it was mostly tried did you try um I couldn't go last night so I did not make any calls to see if there was a possibility um I had another commitment that wasn't going to be over until seven o'clock so I decided not to go but the day before

on stub hub there were just a few tickets and then there were none left 300 minimum to get in So now that's Steph Curry driven. Of course it is. Okay, so I understand that. But that's still, that's impressive. Yes. This is the key for the Wizards box office success. Only sell 2,000 tickets a game.

We can sell out at 2100. You're right, though, the timing of it. And who knows, maybe if they're in a playoff series against the Sixers or the Nets, Maybe it'll be more fans at that point. It's all harmless fun. Oh, God. It is. It's harmless.

It's fun. Look, I thought they'd be a better team. I never bailed on the Westbrook trade. I mean, I would never take John Wall back over the Westwood. Well, you just wanted the story and the fun of having Westbrook. No, no, no, no. I think Westbrook is enormously talented, but too self-destructive on the court to lead a team to a championship, which I know, you know, it is, you know, technically the whole point. And, you know,

he wasn't able to do that in Oklahoma City. He wasn't by himself. But, uh, but as a, as a talented player, I think he's head and tails above John Wall. And I thought he'd make this team, uh, when he's healthy better and more entertaining and get them back to that wizard's, uh, you know, 40 to 45 win limbo. Oh, yeah. I mean, he's a first ballot Hall of Fame or John Wall's not really that close to Hall of Fame. So, and the issue really was he was hurt. They had the COVID pause. They had a lot of injuries. They didn't have their full team out there. I had Brooks on the radio show two days ago, and that's really what he talked about. He was in deep shit there for a while. The whole team was. It did not look like it was going to work.

You know, they lost their first round picked Denny Avdia last night to a hairline fracture, which, by the way, looked really bad in the moment. And this is the last thing, I promise, on the Wizards. I always am apologetic when I talk long about the Wizards.

Today is the day to talk about them. No, no, really the days are when you get playoff games. But I do understand what the significant majority of those that listen to this show really prefer. But I like the wizards, and I love the wizards, and I've always rooted hard for them. But there was this scene when Avdia went down at the end of the first half. And clearly there was an ugly, perhaps, you know, bone sticking through.

And it looked like, you know, another one of these scenes that we've seen a lot of in recent years with, you know, Washington, you know, athletes in particular. But Jordan Bell, who they literally just picked up on, you know, I don't know, it was like a 10-dayer. recently. He, you know, a former, you know, he was a Golden State warrior. He immediately comes off the bench. He's got, I think, his cover, you know, a warm-up, and he covers whatever it was that was not pleasant to look at on Avdia's leg, because Avdia looked at it and was, oh, a couple players walked over and then immediately turned around and walked away. And this guy, Jordan Bell, just stood and sat with him the entire time. a guy that was not spooked off by anything ugly that he was looking at. And I just thought that

that was a really interesting thing to watch. Good for him. Yeah. I mean, this is a kid too, a rookie player. Exactly. You know, 19 years old. He was probably scared to death when that happened. No doubt. And Jordan Bell is not, you know, a longtime veteran, but has been in the league, you know, long enough and been around, you know, great, great feet. You know, what Tommy Shepherd said, And we've heard it before. And it certainly wasn't something his boss ascribed to. But Tommy Shepard has been adamant about getting guys with good teammates. Yeah.

Good character guys. Yeah. Well. You know, not knuckleheads. Now, we heard Flip Saunders say this on his way out the door. True. On our show. Yeah.

In fact, he said it. But so. that Jordan Bell sounds like a Tommy Shepherd kind of player. Well, you know, I had Randy Whitman on the radio show a month ago, maybe, two months ago. I can't remember now. And, you know, one of the things he said, he said, we needed to keep a core group of guys together, and we decided not to. And, you know, one of my favorite players, Trevor Areza, he said that was just a massive mistake by the organization.

We had, you know, not only maturity and a real adult and a real leader, but we had our best defender and a guy who played really well with John. And, you know, it was to chase Kevin Durant. Remember all in for Durant. Oh, yeah. You know, Durant and 16, I think it was. And he said the same thing about Neney. You know, he said, look, you know, he wasn't always the easiest guy, but there was a leadership and there was a maturity there that, you know, rubbed off. on, you know, at the time, I was coaching two very young players in Wall and Beal, who were going to be the cornerstone.

And anyway, I think you're right. I think, you know, Shepard's got an emphasis on looking for really good players, but also looking for, you know, adults. Anyway. Have you ever broken your ankle playing basketball? I have never, yes, I've broken my ankle once. but I have had like anybody who's played a lot of sports basketball in particular, so many high ankle sprains that literally both of my ankles are occasionally after long walks or after a round of golf, like there will be some swelling. Well, I have, in a two-year period.

A break is better than a high ankle sprain, just so everybody understands that in terms of recovery. From the time I was 16 to 18. No, actually 17 and 19. I broke each ankle twice. Yeah. Three times playing basketball. Yeah, of course. And one's playing Sandlot tackle football.

That's it. Basketball players in particular, ankles. I mean, how many times have all of you just rolled that ankle and ended up with that high ankle sprain and, you know, the swelling? and a high ankle sprain is more difficult to deal with it, you know, than a break sometimes. All right, we've got a couple of other things to get to. We'll start to do that right after this word from one of our sponsors.

Little draft talk coming up here momentarily, but Tom, you wrote a column for the Washington Times, and it's a Bruce Allen, Dan Snyder take. And you have a great line in it, which I will read here shortly. but go ahead and tell everybody what your column was about. Well, it was about the how, you know, we should not have been surprised by Dan Snyder, you know, going after Bruce Allen in this libel suit he has

against the website in India. He's not suing Bruce per se, but he wants to depose him because he thinks somehow that Bruce is involved in the so-called smear campaign against, against Snyder. But we should have known it would come to this because these guys live for revenge and resentment. This is what they do, both of them.

I mean, this is their currency. You know, so of course, I mean, it would seem at this point with Snyder getting 100% control of the team and seemingly, you know, I mean, whatever penalty he's going to get in any kind of Beth. Wilkinson report is almost the cost of doing business. So he's won. You know, he's won. Why go through this anymore? Why go through it is because he wants revenge. It can't be to clear his good name because he doesn't have a good name.

Well, I told you that I had this guy on that had written about this and I said, you know, he was a legal guy and I said, what would the damages be with a guy whose reputation is pretty hard to tarnish. Like, how much worse could a reputation be? Is that a real thing? Like, you know, by the way, you have two lines in your column that I love. First of all, you wrote, as he continues this fight, does Snyder realize that with every article about his lawsuit,

someone mentions him in Jeffrey Epstein, you know, to describe the case? It's a really good point. Like, you know, as you say, you know, is the juice worth the squeeze? Like whatever he's going to get out of this and sort of some sort of satisfaction of calling out the people that were behind this. You know, all the while, every single time it comes up, you know, we're talking about what the smear campaign was. And in that conversation, Dan Snyder and Jeffrey Epstein's names are mentioned over and over again. To explain it, you have to mention it. And then you wrote this.

Snyder isn't suing Alan, at least not yet, but he suspects that Alan was somehow part of this alleged smear campaign that allegedly included former minority owner in Joe Gibbs confidant Dwight Schar and wants to question Alan under oath. Tommy then writes, there aren't enough Bibles in Joel Osteen's garage for that oath. First of all, maybe Joel Osteen doesn't even have any Bibles

in his garage. But, yeah, that would be, I promise to tell the truth, only whatever the oath is with Bruce Allen. I mean, come on. Bruce Allen under oath. Yeah. What a circus that would be. It really is true, though.

Like, you know, the best advice, I mean, I don't know. I actually go round and round on this. Like, I think on some level, level, obviously this is not an innocent guy in Snyder. And, you know, there's probably a lot of stuff we don't even know. I've heard stories that are horror stories that I don't want to repeat because I don't know them to be true. And I'm talking about, you know, personal stuff and the treatment of people, not just inside the organization, but close to the organization. And they're always people of, you know, lesser stature, at least in his mind. He, you know, he's the

opposite of, you know, my father always told me, treats superstars like normal people, normal people like superstars. He's the opposite. You know, he treats normal people like peons and superstars like, you know, godlike figures, you know. I mean, he's such, you know, he's enamored with, with, with that stuff. But at the same time, you know, if there was a concerted attempt to smear his name, regardless of what kind of reputation he has, I would be pissed too. And I wouldn't want them to get away with it. You know, and again, I know we're being repetitive here, so I won't go on much longer. But the bottom line is, did Dwight Schar and Bruce Allen and John Moog and Mary Beth, whatever, and Jessa McCle?

like what did they think the league was going to do? Just take their word for it and force him to sell the team? If they were making up stuff that wasn't true with the intent on getting the league to force him to sell so that he'd have to sell with the minority owners so they could get a bigger, you know, payday because he was selling too, did they not think that there would be some sort of investigation into whether or not these allegations were true or not? I don't get it. That doesn't make sense because we're talking about people like John Moog knows how the NFL operates.

And he was one of the guys who helped get the Ravens, you know, get the Browns moved from Cleveland to Baltimore. So John Moog knows exactly how the NFL operates. So I can't see him being naive enough to think that this will fix everything. This will fix this guy. And I'll help my clients get their time. team. There's, there's, you know, we get trips and drabs of this and it's always entertaining, but the motivation for, for some of it, I mean, it's going to make a hell of a story at some point, because we really don't know why, why do this? If the motivation is to force Snyder

to sell the team, I mean, nobody in the right mind is going to think, uh, NFL owners are going to believe this smear campaign without some kind of proof. Right. And so that just makes me and has skeptical of some of this all along because the motivation was to make him look terrible for the purposes of him being forced to sell the team. But it just wasn't going to work. And smart people would know that that wasn't going to work. And then the other part is, is didn't anybody at any point in time suggest just the possibility that in the league, eyes, like other owners, you know, they may not like Dan, but some sort of concerted attempt by his minority owners and his former team president to smear his name with lies is going to make

everybody say, uh-uh, that's not, that's not right. That's, so it almost in some ways may have turned him, at least in league circles, into at least briefly a sympathetic figure. And again, And again, the point is, is it didn't work. It actually backfired because it made the post story, which was real. It made it look benign compared to the rumors. Yes. Yes, it did. So benign, as you were the one who broke the story and pointed out,

the team actually sent the post story out to who? It's season ticket holders? No, to its sponsors, its advertisers, it's. It's big clients. It's business partners saying, look, here, this post story, this is accurate. The other stuff you heard, uh-uh. It's not accurate. Yeah, no, we sexually harassed 15 women.

And by the way, there are probably more coming, but he never, he doesn't know Jeffrey Epstein. That's wrong. I mean, it really is, that's one of the more incredible things to me in this whole thing. Anyway, so. Anyway, here it is. 22nd and no Beth Wilkinson report yet. You said to me last week, did you say it? Yeah, I did. I pointed out in the column.

Right. You're the one that... Now it's approaching fast. Yeah. No, but you're the one that suggested that it would break with the NFL draft? Yes, I said it's convenient time to bury an even watered down Wilkinson report. I say that in the end of the column. For a moment, I actually thought it was Cooley's idea.

But no, you said it at the end of the column. Yeah, I mean, you know, this thing, the Wilkinson report comes out. Interesting. It just broke after Washington just traded up to number eight and took Justin Fields. How convenient. I mean, because Roger Goodell said in early February at the Super Bowl that it was close. Yeah. That the conclusion was close.

Yeah. Well, what would be the holdup? a PR timing with the draft that would be my sinister conclusion what else could be a reason for the holdup because I think it has been done for a while I don't know I don't know what else they would take me well there's one to sit down

there's one obvious answer reconciling the recommendations on punishment with what they're going to do like there's there's a recommendation or recommendations for punishments. And maybe the league hasn't decided, you know, whether or not they're going to take the recommendations or whether or not they're going to take them and, you know,

lessen them or whatever. Maybe it's the league that's holding it up. Maybe. But for me, even if he got suspended, considering the points of all this is to force Snyder out, anything less than forcing him to sell the team as a win for the owner. Well, the forcing him to sell the team, that ship is sailed. I know.

I know what that's. I mean, they waive the debt rules so that he could buy out his minority shareholders. I know. Like I said, that's what I mean, he's already won. Unless it's part of, although this would be collusion, unless it's part of some sort of plan to say, look, I'm not letting them participate in a $5 billion sale. If I'm going to be forced to sell this thing, I'm going to sell 100% of it at $5 billion after buying back 40% of it at a $2.2 billion valuation. But you can't do that either.

Plus, you can't plus, I mean, look, this guy's so petty. He's not going to get out because people hate him. Because, I mean, you've suggested that the family is tired, maybe, of being, you know, the most hated man in Washington. Yeah. I don't think he cares about it. that. Yeah, you know, you just reminded me of something. Somebody sent me this, and I apologize, because I can't remember who it was who sent it to me, but they reminded me that Dwight Schar was reprimanded in some way, shape, or form, and that his cut of the 40 percent,

2.2 billion may have been less than what the other two minority owners got. I think that's true. I'm not 100% sure it's true, but it seemed to ring a bell when whomever it was that sent that to me, sent that to me. So anyway, so that may have been sort of getting Schar back. The thing about the sale to the minority owners is it seems to have ended whatever he had with Schar, but not with Jessica McLuhan and Bruce Allen, who were not minority owners in the organization. and couldn't, you know, accept a buyout, if you will, with probably some sort of, you know, confidentiality clause included in it

about what each would say about the other. I can't imagine. I mean, this is a simplistic view maybe because I'm not a lawyer. But when push comes to shove, if there was ever a lawsuit against Bruce Allen, I can't fathom how Snyder could reasonably hold. hope to survive the discovery of something like that. But Sarah and Bruce has to know everything. Everybody that Dan Snyder has buried.

He's done a lot of dumb things as an owner. I mean, you know, suing somebody who then could bring a lot of things to light on the plaintiff in this case. It would seem to be silly for what reason. But he's done dumb shit before. So this would be the first one. The suing of the city paper. I mean, tell me where that juice was. Why he's continuing this now.

I don't know. It's like that saying about revenge. It's vengeance. Drinking poison and waiting for it to kill your enemy. Right. I mean, how does it taste? Well, hopefully he dies first. Now that said, I'm all in favor of revenge in a lot of instances.

I know. I know. All right. We want to get to this SI story on Alex Smith. I've got a couple of draft thoughts when we come back right after this word from one of our sponsors. Something I didn't realize, Tommy, until this morning, that John Clayton is a paid columnist for the Washington Post. Did you know that? Yeah, I knew that. I mean, I... He writes for them once a week, I think. Yeah, I mean, I've read Clayton a lot in the Post, but I didn't realize like he was actually... a post columnist. But someone told me that he was.

Well, he writes a column for the post. That's not the same always as being a post columnist. Okay. So he's not a staff member. Is he probably... So he's just an independent contractor that he writes for a lot of different newspapers? No, I don't know. He may just write for the post.

And I don't know. You know, maybe they did hire him and put him on the payroll. I could be wrong. But most of these situations like this, you're an independent contractor. Okay. It's really not important because he wrote in the post, and this morning he wrote a column about, you know, the trades that could shape the draft. And he went through a bunch of possibilities. And, you know, the teams that, first of all, there was a story the other day, you know, Miami, you know, obviously traded initially with the 49ers moving back to 12 from 3.

And then the dolphins made a trade to move up to six with the Eagles. CBSSports.com had a story the other day that the dolphins are trying to shop the number six pick. That would be amazing if somehow they traded three to go back to 12, then traded 12 to go up to six, and then ended up getting a lot more to trade back a couple of spots. They have done just a phenomenal job. Eventually they're going to have to start taking more players, but they've done a phenomenal job with the draft. Ultimately, it's got to end up with the right players, though, and I don't know if they got the Tuotunga Bailoa thing right. We'll see.

But the teams that have been rumored the most as potential teams that would trade up into the top eight now in the draft to get a quarterback are Denver at number nine to make sure that, you know, another team doesn't get in front of them for the quarterback that they want. New England at 15 and really Washington at 19. those three teams, there have been constant reports. John Kime had the report that Washington's interested in trading up for the right player if he falls, quarterback if he falls. Kime also reported that Washington's interested in moving up maybe only a couple of spots for a non-quarterback. Anyway, Clayton presented the Washington to Carolina. Carolina has the number eight pick possibility.

and he wrote the following. The Washington football team will be calling around for a chance at one of the five potential first-round quarterbacks. But it has a problem. It's division rivals on the 10th, 11th, and 12th picks. We've talked about that, Dallas at 10, the Giants 11, Philadelphia, 12. Meaning trade-up options are limited. But the Panthers, Ron Rivera's former team, could be willing to deal.

And by the way, Carolina has said, or there have been reports, that Carolina is willing to deal. Now that Carolina has traded for Sam Darnold, it probably isn't looking to draft a quarterback and might be willing to move back to Washington's 19th pick. To get a deal done, it might require Washington giving up both of its third round picks this year and next year's first rounder. If Washington can't move up for a quarterback, it could consider moving up a few spots for Micah Parsons or an offensive tackle.

This is some of what Kime had last week. And then we had the Lombardy report from now two weeks ago that Trey Lance, they're enamored with Trey Lance and that if he falls, they will be very aggressive in trying to trade up for Trey Lance. I think the whole thing is, first of all, this draft because of the five quarterbacks that could go in the first eight, picks, you know, that's possible that the five quarterbacks could go in the first eight picks or maybe even less than the first eight. That would be unprecedented. The number of teams that aren't in that top, you know, eight that need quarterbacks that are willing to trade up, this era that we're living in, which is it's better to just go for it on the quarterback if you really believe in it than to sit back and hope he falls, it's going to make. It's going to make,

for a very potentially exciting draft night a week from tonight. Yes, it could. And my position is that if they trade up to eight or above for a quarterback, I really believe it would be for Justin Fields. And that would mean that Justin Fields gets by San Francisco at three, gets by Atlanta or somebody else willing to trade up to four with Atlanta to take him there. Cooley does believe that Fields will be the guy that drops and that the other four are going to go before Fields. A lot of people think that San Francisco is going to take Fields or Lance.

I think they're going to take Mack Jones. But it's really a fascinating, like this conversation we're having right now. It's going to be interesting. I think they are interested and I think they would be aggressive. I think the debate is to which player they'd be aggressive going for and whether or not that player would fall and whether or not there be a deal available that would be acceptable because they may be in competition with other teams for, say, Carolina's eighth pick. Is it Does it make any sense at all to consider

As part of your formula The lack of success of Ohio State Quarterbacks in the league Wouldn't bother me at all Wouldn't even be part of my thought process You know and maybe I'm too quick to say that Because if you've got a long time coach In one place that has a certain system

And over a long period of time the quarterbacks just don't produce in the NFL, that would be different. And you've had, you know, a Ryan Day and Urban Myers situation there that's been pretty consistent, you know, and but we just had, you know, it's been Haskins. But, you know, the future of quarterbacks under Woody Hayes, you know, and other coaches that have come along at Ohio State, that wouldn't impact me at all. I mean, how many great Tennessee quarterbacks were there in the NFL before Peyton Manning? I know.

I'm not saying it should. I'm just saying I ask you if you would consider it at all. I am all for if they are absolutely bought in, you know, as an organization, into, you know, Lance or Fields or Jones, them going up for it. I think if they do, it would be for Fields. That has been my understanding for two months plus that there were at least a couple of key people and personnel that really liked Fields. Lombardi says it's Lance and maybe it is

I'm just telling you that if I was forced to wager on the quarterback that they moved up to take in the top eight it would be fields my preference of the three would be fields I know that that's in conflict with Cooley

Cooley's got fields as number five among those five quarterbacks I wouldn't really be thrilled with Mack Jones but I would trust in Rivera and Turner and, you know, Herney and Mayhew and Pollyan and Stokes. I mean, like, they got a lot of cooks in the kitchen right now with a lot of experience. So I think I would trust in that. The other part of this is would they trade up just maybe a few spots for like a linebacker like Micah Parsons

or a tackle like Slater out of Northwestern, you know, one of the big tackles in this draft? You know, to move up, let's just say, six spots or five spots to the Chargers pick or to Minnesota's pick, as an example, it's going to cost you your second round choice, at least based on the draft chart. And it's not always based on that because you may have a lot of competition. But if they believe, did I tell you this last week that, and I think I asked all of you to read this story by Jeff Zegwald, ESPN.com. he had a lot of NFL people, draft people, personnel people, off the record to do a story about how draft boards are sort of put together. And I thought there were two really interesting things. Number one is that 85% of the evaluation on players is based on their college tape. It's not on pro days or combine or, you know, anything else. And really, the only thing that impacts someone's draft position after the 85% that's on tape is something. negative about, you know, a red flag on personality or, you know, legal or whatever,

you know, drugs, whatever. That's what typically happens that changes somebody's position on the board is something negative. And then the other part of it was that most teams don't assign 32 first round grades. That most teams put a first round grade on far fewer players. Like the, you know, somebody guesstimated that there, one general manager said the most first round grades we've ever had was 27 and recently we only had 17. There are 32 first round picks. So I bring it up because Washington is selecting 19.

What if Washington's board only has 15 first round grades and they can trade. up four spots or five spots to take that player and give up a second rounder, well, then you do it. If you can't trade up and you get to 19, that's when you look to trade back as much as you can and pick up other picks. If you don't have a first round grade on Rashad Bateman or you know, Jeremiah Uso Coramoa, the linebacker from Notre Dame, which I think they probably would have a first round grade on him, that's a. when you try to trade back. The problem is, do other teams feel the same way? And are they trying to trade back? But, you know, every draft board is different. But it's going to be an interesting

situation. That was something I've never thought about, which is, okay, just stay there at 19 and take your player. Well, you know, if the best player and the only player left, when you get to, you know, say 14 or 15 that you have a first round grade on is Christian Darius, Christian Derisaw, the lineman from Virginia Tech, and you can give up a second or like a third to move up two or three spots and take them, you do it. Rather than sit there at 19 and take a player that you don't have a first round grade on. So there are a lot of things that are going to be in play here.

By the way, something we didn't talk about yesterday, or maybe the day before, is Peter Schrager, who is a respected draft guy for the NFL network, has Washington taking Travis ETN, the running back from Clemson at 19. Fans went nuts over that one. Went nuts over that. Picking a running back in the first round.

That's become a no-no. Yeah, it shouldn't be that much of a no-no. Because, you know, Christian McCaffrey was taken in the first round. Sequin Barclay was taken in the first round. These are major impact players, I believe. Zeke Elliott was taken in the first round. You know, look, I know the history of running backs, and I know that Dalvin Cook was in the second round,

and Derek Henry was in the second round. Like, you know, debatably the two best running backs in the NFL, Dalvin Cook and Derek Henry, were both second round picks. I understand that. But again, going back to what I was just saying, if the last first round grade you have, as you're sitting there at 19, is Najee Harris, and you can't trade back, and Harris is by far in away the best player on your board, and nobody at a position of greater need is even close,

you take Najay Harris. That's my position. I know a lot of you disagree with that. By the way, I love Harris. I think he is a combination of Derek Henry and Marshaun Lynch. not Travis E.N. I think E.T.N. is going to be a good back. But he's the guy that I'd wait until the second round or the third round.

But again, obviously, as Washington fans, were pretty excited. And for reasonable reasons, you know, for justifiable reasons with Antonio Gibson. He really looked good last year. He looked very good. You know, and you got him in the third round. I mean, really, really could be a potential stud of a player, absolutely. So okay. I mean, let's let's really, I don't want to get into this.

I don't want to do it. I was going to say, let's get ahead of ourselves, but I don't want to do that. What? Just say it. If they draft Justin Fields with the eighth pick in the draft, does he start? Cooley thinks Fields needs time, Lance needs time. Mack Jones is ready to go. Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence, he thinks actually Trevor Lawrence may need some time.

Again, I've said this a million times. Quarterbacks taken in the top half of the draft, there only been about three or four of them in the last 10 years that have sat before week five. Dwayne Haskins was one of them. Jake Locker was one of them. Mahomes was one of them. It doesn't happen.

And it didn't happen last year with Tunga Viloa, as well as Ryan Fitzpatrick was playing. So I'm excited about seeing Ryan Fitzpatrick. If they, you know, part of me thinks if they take him and they trade up, and they trade a first rounder and two third rounders to move up 11 spots to take Justin Fields. And he's not ready to play five, six, seven weeks into the season. Then maybe you made a mistake. Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I think Ryan Fitzpatrick is right now, there's a really good chance he could play at a high level next year. And so maybe Fields really looks the part. But they're like, you know, right now things, you know, it's like the Alex, look, Mahomes sat not because he wasn't ready to play. Mahomes sat because they started off 5 and 0. If they had started off 2 and 3 or 3 and 2 even, I bet you Mahomes would have been in there a lot sooner than the next year. That was the thing that doesn't get pointed out enough about the Alex Smith-Patrick Mahomes year.

so many people have been so complimentary of, oh, Kansas City, Andy Reed, they were so patient. They knew he needed a year to sit and be mentored by Alex Smith. And I know that Alex Smith had a lot to do with mentoring Mahomes. I'm not being condescending towards that. But the bottom line is, is Mahomes, when we did see him, does anybody really think that Patrick Mahomes, had he come in midseason in his rookie year in 2017, wouldn't have been great? They started off 5 and 0. Smith was having the best year of his career by miles with incredible weapons around them. I mean, as good a skill position situation as you could have in the league. Kareem Hunt was on that team. Obviously, Tariq Hill, Travis Kelsey, you know, et cetera. They had major star skill position players, and they were rolling. So they're, you know, if they were bringing Mahomes along,

slowly with maybe the intention of putting them in at some point. They didn't have to. They were 5-0. Now, they did hit a lull in mid-season. I thought there was a chance Smith could get benched, but they got it together, and then they lost in the first round of the playoffs. I would bet you any amount of money, it's an unprovable bet, that Andy Reid, unless he ever admits it in a book,

that Andy Reid had to think about Mahomes at some point for the postseason. Had to. Yeah. Mahomes gave me. Absolutely. All right. There's this story in Sports Illustrated that just broke before we came on with a lot of information from Alex Smith about what it was like when he was cleared to play here. Some of it we've heard and some of it we haven't.

That's next after this word from one of our sponsors. So a story in Sports Illustrated came out. Sports Illustrated, what is the current state of Sports Illustrated, Tommy? Just an online magazine? Or did they still have a print edition? I don't know. I don't know anymore. I don't know.

It's hard to keep up with the collapse of my industry. I know. It's so true. Yeah. So the name of this story written by Greg Bishop this morning, which came out, Alex Smith healed enough to walk away. The subheading, a miraculous comeback, the team he believed. the team he believes didn't want him, the two that still do, and the decision to end a career,

unlike any other. It's written by Greg Bishop. It's a very long story. It goes through a lot of different things, including basically him writing this story with Alex Smith from their Big Island, Hawaii home. But we're going to read to you the parts that deal with the Washington football team. So I'll start this particular paragraph, which is pretty early in the story. It's a very long story. The Alex Smith comeback story can unspool like a fairy tale, but it's not. The warm and fuzzy narrative wrapped around his 2020 season ignored the tension that consumed him that started when he returned to practice after 21 months, dozens of surgeries and numerous infections, only to discover that the Washington football team didn't quite know what to make of his

return. He understood the hesitance, same as he recognized his own anxiety. The franchise had overhauled its coaching staff that spring, hiring Ron Rivera and his preferred assistance, none of whom had invested in Smith, whom the Washington football team acquired in a trade two years earlier. They couldn't have been expected to understand the rationale of the military rehab specialists, the only people on earth who knew that even a severe injury like Smith's, not only could be overcome, but already had been. Sometimes Smith saw his coaches flinch when they spied the blood that dripped from underneath his brace. He told friends he would not complain if they released him, told him he wasn't good enough, or deemed him to be too much of a risk. Still, he did not

understand the tactics his coaches used to keep him sidelined. Listen to some of this. First, they placed him on the physically unable to perform list, which we knew. Even though world-renowned doctors had pronounced him physically able to perform, at camp, players wore GPS trackers, and none traversed 4,000 yards a day on average, like Smith, whose coaches asked him to carry extra weight, push sleds and hurdle bags for drills. Tasks he had never done in 15 pro seasons, let alone before his leg had to be rebuilt. Smith believed the team wanted to see if it could break him. And if that sounds paranoid, the team physician agreed with him. They seemed to be asking Dr. Robin West says, what can he withstand? Are you sure you're clearing him? The coaches would ask Dr. West. West would

try and explain. The short answer, yes. The disclaimer, she would assess his leg based on her informed medical opinion. She says, I got very little support. He almost died. He almost lost his leg. Why would he want to? Reasonable questions, which she answered, well, that's not your decision. Smith found the coaches patronizing, meaning he believed they preferred a cute story, the comeback already at the end. His father, Doug says he believes the team sabotaged the return. None of the Smiths could figure out why. The coaches could worry about the injury in his future, but they were not the experts.

Smith said, quote, for this story, I'd rather have somebody right in my face say, what are you thinking? It pissed me off, essentially, that they didn't. Now, Rivera, as part of a statement to SI for this story, provided by a team, spokesperson said, quote, I was scared to death about putting Alex back out there, and that is something I struggled with every day. It's unfortunate that he feels we patronized him because I can tell you that was not our intention. At the end of the day, I commend Alex because he proved everybody wrong and exceeded any reasonable expectations that anyone had set for him. He not only made it

back onto the field, but led us to the playoffs. It was a truly remarkable feat. I'm going to read just the rest of this part. Smith was supposed to be grateful. Of course, he was grateful, and far more than they could understand. But it wasn't enough to simply get back, run around, throw a few passes. He wanted more, and his desire spoke less to the worst day of his life and more to the rest of them. His wants were existential, and they stemmed from a career that almost ended long before 2018. At that point, on the eve of a season, his own team did not want to,

him to play. Smith resolved to prove the world wrong again. If he didn't at least try, he said, quote, I don't see how I could exist. Closed quote. Some of this, you know, came out in that other story,

which then... The GQ story. The GQ story. But some of it didn't. And I think the most incredible part is that they were pushing him physically with like menial tasks typically assigned to like rookie players?

I mean, what would you think if that happened to you? They're trying to drive me out. This is a complicated issue because, I mean, I feared for this guy playing, and I cringed when he was on the field. But, you know, I mean, the doctor's point is right. once you accepted him back there, then you had really no right to treat him different than any other player.

You know, either cut him or play him or treat him as a regular teammate, a regular player. There's a lot going on here. But I understand the coach's, you know, personal trepidations about it. And they've never had to deal with something like this before, probably.

And they probably made some mistakes in how they dealt with it. As an organization, I always had a bigger problem with the marketing and business side, you know, taking advantage of the comeback story. Like it was some kind of great thing that said a lot about the football team. You know, I always had an issue with the whole marketing thing, since they did try to basically, you know, not play him. And then once he played and did well, they said, oh, look at this. This is great, isn't it?

You know, but the other thing is, if I'm a Washington football fan, you got the doctor, you know, speaking out, you know, questioning the team on this. And you got Alex Smith suggesting that the Dr. West, who resigned recently a couple weeks ago, added a blue, after 18 years in the NFL, basically, Alex Smith said, I can't help but wonder, God, did I start that? So Alex Smith thinks that the doctor resigned because of the whole flap between the doc and the team. I, you know, when the story came out in GQ a couple of weeks ago, I, well, let me just, when he said in this story that, hold on, where is it? bear with me

it's a long story when he when he said that he told friends he would not complain if they released him told him he wasn't good enough or deemed him to be too much of a risk you know that he he would have understood that you know and but I do

and and so when so him understanding that also sinks up with me with what Rivera said it's like Rivera had the same concerns we all did which is we watch project 11. We can't, you know, and I remember saying very early on, this is the organization that can't put him back out on the field. They can't take this risk with what they've gone through with

Trent Williams and medical and the whole thing. They can't be the team that ends his life or causes him to lose his leg. Like, let somebody else take that risk. So I think, you know, like I wonder why he was, why they didn't release him. Why didn't they do that? That's a big why. Because Rivera says, I struggled with it every day. And yet, somehow they were pushing him not on the field. Like, what were they hoping that it would, like, that, you know, that performing these menial tasks of pushing sleds and carrying extra weight around the field would somehow break him and at least it wouldn't happen in the view of all the public watching on TV,

a game? or maybe it would give them more of a reason to say, yeah, this just isn't going to work. They should have just said, God, we respect this. We want to be so supportive of you. It's a new group here. We're moving in a different direction. We wish you the absolute best. Yes.

Now, you know, there was a potential big salary cap hit last year, too. You know, so there were those considerations. But I don't know why they put him through what they put him through. This is the part of the story where it makes me, like, I didn't like what. what Alex said in the GQ thing. And I thought that it was not him understanding, you know, the risk that the organization had putting him on the field, you know, and by the way, how grateful he should be that they ultimately did give him the opportunity. And it sounds like he does understand that he should be grateful for that opportunity and understands the risk

that the team took. And by the way, ultimately, it worked out for both parties. He won the comeback player of the year. He solved that, you know, he completed that journey. And oh, by the way, he was pretty good on the field, as it turns out, and was a significant contributor to a team that ultimately went to the postseason. But I think it must have killed him not to start that playoff game. Yeah. It must have killed him. To watch a guy who basically they picked up off the street start ahead of him. That must have killed him. Him saying, though, and this I would believe to be accurate, Smith believed the team wanted to see if it could break him. Well, yeah, the coaches are asking him to carry extra weight, push sleds and hurdle bags for drills.

Here's your quarterback who's 36 years old. He's been in the league. He's one of the most respected players in your organization in forever. And, you know, and by the way, he's exactly the. the kind of dude that would do it without complaining. You know, I can do whatever you're asking anybody else to do. But it seems weird that that's how they would test him or that's how they would try to break them. And if they were trying to do this because they didn't want to take the salary cap hit, that's a Bruce Allen move.

You know, I don't want to pay the guy, so let's force him to quit. Yeah, but Bruce Allen wasn't there. I know that, but that's a Bruce Allen like move. I mean, the reason he came back and was given this opportunity, you know, one reason could be that the owner asked the coaching staff, asked Ron Rivera to try to make it work. Remember, there was a line about don't bet against that guy. Didn't the owner have a line? And one of the stories we read where he told Ron, don't bet against the old guy? Yes, yeah, definitely.

Yes. Well, I think they were trying to stack the odds, I guess, weren't they? I mean, the only thing you can just sit back and say is, thank God it worked out. Because the team didn't really want to do it, and I can totally understand why. For whatever reason they decided, for whatever reason, salary cop or otherwise, or Snyder involvement or otherwise, they decided not to do what he said he would have been fine with. and that is if they confronted him and said, hey, we just don't want to take the risk. You're just not, you know, in the plans.

And instead, they took this weird path of, you know, almost, you know, not humiliating him would be, you know, treating him with some level of condescension, actually, you know, to have him do some of these tasks to sort of test him. that doesn't make me Well, he said patronized. Yeah, same thing, basically. I mean, I don't understand why they would have gone that path. I still think ultimately, you know, I feel good about Ron Rivera. I know what he was entering into.

I just think ultimately he knew and Scott Turner knew that Dwayne was no good. And he didn't want to be the coach that, went through this with Alex Smith, because really what was the end game there anyway? It was the question we constantly asked each other. What's the end game here? And after that first game against the Rams, like, what's the point? I said they should release him after that game. I know.

Listen, I agree with all that, but then they turned around and used him as a marketing tool. Well, no, that's not the only reason they used him. They used him, and he played well, and he was a significant contributor. No, I'm talking about the business side. Okay. Well, how did they do that specifically? Oh, my gosh. Go back and look about the comeback tweets.

I know. That came from the Washington football team. My God. What did it really? It was shameful. What did it really mean? They weren't selling more tickets because of it. Well, it was changing the image of the team, the poisonous football team.

I mean. Changing the image. This is, they became, look, they became. Look, they became in part the Teddy Bear in the NFL because of Ron Rivera's fight against cancer and Alex Smith's comeback. I think actually they played up the cancer thing a lot more than Alex Smith's comeback. I remember like some of the signs that were up in the early season games and, you know, the pregame. Go back. Go back to Alex Smith when he stepped on the football field and their activity after that. It was shameful.

Anyway, my question is, now will we get a story from NBC Sports Washington that explains what Alex Smith really meant and he didn't really mean all these things? Okay. That's enough. No, that's not enough. They're a team partner. They're not, I mean, they're the biggest team partner out there. Why are we all partners? Let me just tell you something.

If NBC Sports Washington were paying you to do the Tom Levero show, which, you know, it's a half-hour show on the football team on weeknights at 9 p.m. And by the way, to write for their website and write columns, you would behave differently. Oh, no. Well, then you wouldn't take the job. No, I wouldn't. Okay. So there you go. Teach me,

teach me, boss. No, I'm not teaching you. I'm just saying that if you did take that job, you wouldn't have written a column on Snyder and Bruce Allen

that you wrote yesterday. No, well, well, then I wouldn't have taken that job. Well, that, okay,

there you go. Maybe that's the reason. Actually, the best thing, the best thing you can do as a columnist is, for your image, is get fired by the evil powers

that be over what you write. You know what? That's like, Winning an award badge of honor Really interesting story Yes Sabotage is the word I'm sure we'll see some backlash

From the From the true eating squad That wanted to just Still embrace the Alex Smith Feel Good story Look you know what The story is a feel good story Regardless of all of this

Both things can be true Yes they can You're right Both things can be true It was a really incredible story that for a moment on that October afternoon in the rain against the Rams when Aaron Donald jumped on top of him thought it was going to end like I had predicted, which is don't be the team that puts him back. You can't be the team that puts him back out there when he gets hurt again. And it's a miracle that he wasn't hurt in that game. He was ambushed in that game.

You know what the best part of that thing is? Think about what we're reading now about all. all of Ron Rivera's concerns. And what did he say after the game as to why he didn't pull, put Kyle Allen back in the game? Because Kyle Allen got hurt, okay? As Alex Smith was being demolished during the course of that game, six sacks, not one first down, one of the worst quarterbacked halves in the history of the game. He said he was concerned about putting Kyle Allen back out there.

He didn't want him to get hurt. But at the same time, everybody held their collective breath when Aaron Donald jumped on him. And they got lucky. You know, they got lucky in that he didn't get hurt. They got the benefit, marketing benefit, as you described, of having this incredible story in their uniform. And, oh, by the way, him playing well and contributing in a significant way to six wins or five wins. of the seven and a playoff birth. There you go.

One more thing before we leave for the day. Yeah. Mark Turgeon's hiring Danny Manning to be an assistant coach. They were teammates at Kansas back in the 80s. And Danny Manning's had, you know, many opportunities to be a head coach, Wake Forest most recently, and has not been a successful head coach. But you know what he has been? He's been a pretty successful recruit.

and a pretty good developer of big men. And I think it's such a great hire. I mean, obviously they're friends, lifelong friends and former teammates. And Danny Manning was in broadcasting this year after being fired by Wake Force at the end of the 2020 season. But DeAndre Haynes, who was an assistant for Turgeon, took the job at Marquette's from the Midwest. and I'm telling you, Turgeon's having quite the off-season here. You know, to add Danny Manning to your staff, to add their third transfer. I forget if I mentioned this on the show yesterday, Ian Martinez transferred from Utah.

If you watch the highlights on Ian Martinez, I mean, I've already talked to a couple of people who think that this guy may be the best of their three transfers, ultimately, and he's a freshman, so they have him for the next couple of years. He was a top 75 guy committed to Utah, really came on at the end of his freshman year, had a great game against Southern Cal in the quarterfinals of the Pac-12 tournament. Ridicously athletic at 6-3 can really shoot it. But I think everything's rounding into form. The key here is Aaron Wiggins and Eric Iala.

If both of them come back, certainly you want Wiggins back more than anybody. But if both of them come back, this is a top five to 10 team. and even if they don't at this point, this team's very intriguing going into next year in the Big Ten. Do you have anything else? I got nothing else for you, boss. Okay. I think that's it.

The NFL rules changes. I can talk to Cooley about that. They announced that the schedule comes out May 12th, Tommy. I know that's a big moment for you. I'll have a mock schedule the week before. That's it for the day. Back tomorrow. hopefully with Cooley.

He had knee surgery today, and I hope that went well for him. All right, Tommy. I'll talk to you later. All right, boss.