The Kevin Sheehan Show - All In On Sam?

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Kevin opened with an interesting Monday Night Football ending last night in Buffalo before getting to whether he's ready to declare if the Commanders should be "all-in" on Sam Howell. ESPN's John Keim jumped on and talked Howell, Bieniemy, the defense, and a lot more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Good snap, good hold. Kick, perfect. And the Broncos have come to Buffalo. And they're going to leave with a win.

24, 22 to get to 4 and 5. A record-setting five games ended on Sunday and a walk-off field goal. No NFL world. week had ever seen five games end with a field goal going through the upright with zeros on the clock. We'll make that record six now because last night's week 10 finale ended with Will Lutz booting a game-winning field goal after he had missed the previous attempt, but there were 12 men on the field for Buffalo. The game last night was not pretty. It's not going into Canton, but there were some really interesting strategic and decision-making moments at the end of that game,

which I will get to here momentarily. The show is always presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com. Mention my name. They will take very good care of you, including giving you a free estimate. John Kime on the show today, two segments with John. We'll talk to John about obviously the team right now, Sam Howell, Eric B. Enemy, what the hell is wrong with the defense? But we'll also discuss Josh Harris

and ownership and, you know, where they are right now in what we believe will be a regime change at the end of this season. You know, are they making progress towards that? We'll ask John that coming up starting in the next segment. I do have a Sam Howl question to pose to all of you, but also to myself for an answer here in the opening segment. But I wanted to start real quickly with the Monday night game last night because there was an end-of-game situation that was very interesting, and I'll get to that in a moment. But first of all, Denver has won three in a row.

They're four and five. It was only a month, month and a half ago, where Denver was thought to be one of the two, three, four worst teams in the league. They allowed 36 points per game. It was a record pace over. over the first five. Remember, they gave up 35 to Washington, and then 70 to Miami. They appeared to be the worst defense in the history of the NFL. Over the last four games, they're allowing just 16.8 points per game. Man, this NFL, you can never be sure of what you

think you're seeing and that it's going to be permanent because it does change. 36 points per cent. per game over their first five, 16.8 points per game over their last four. And they played in their last two, Buffalo and Kansas City. They've won three in a row. In those three wins, they've beaten Buffalo and Kansas City. Pretty impressive. Defenses can improve as the season goes along. Who knew? Maybe something will happen with Washington's defense. defense down the stretch. A couple of things real quickly about this game, including the end-to-game situation. First, the bills are in big trouble. They needed that game last night. That was a desperate spot for them at five and four. They are five and five now. And what's really

troubling if you're a Buffalo Bills fan, they have the coming up. They have the Eagles, Chiefs, Cowboys, and Dolphins still on their schedule. They also have the chargers on the road. They have a game with the Jets this Sunday and a game with the Patriots. I think in the AFC you're going to have to get to 10 minimum. That means they've got to win five out of their final seven. And again, at Eagles, at Chiefs, at Chargers, at Dolphins, and the Cowboys at Home. They're in big trouble. They fired their offensive coordinator today, Ken Dorsey. They had one of the highest scoring offenses and one of the top offenses in the league, and they fired their offensive coordinator. Dorsey. The other thing before I get to the end of game situation that I wanted to mention is Russell Wilson. He played really well last night. I don't think the box score necessarily would do it justice. He threw for 193 yards. He was 24 of 29. But Russell Wilson made a lot of big plays in this game. And they were kind of vintage Russell Wilson plays from back in Seattle where he used his legs and he created. And, you know, he had plays where, you know, he was hemmed in and somehow he got out of it

enough to just kind of flick the ball, like push it forward for a completion. Joe Buck and Troy Aitman talked about how much weight he lost in the offseason. I didn't notice it in week two when we played them, but that he had gotten in much better shape and wanted to become more of the playmaker that he had been in Seattle last year, not as much. I thought, Russell Wilson was really good last night. Again, nobody played like a game that you're going to put into Canton, but that's a tough environment. Buffalo was a desperate football team. And in a 15-15 game, he made plays on a touchdown drive that gave him a 21 to 15 lead. They missed that extra point. And then down 2221, they took over deep in their own territory. And he made some big, big plays. down the stretch. They got a pass interference call that set up the first of two field goal attempts, the first one with 12 men on the field.

But I just wanted to mention Russell Wilson. I was impressed with him last night. I don't know where this is going for Denver. They're clearly a much better team than they were earlier in the season. They actually have some players on offense. I think Javante Williams is great. They're running back. By the way, the running back that was with Sam Hal at North Carolina.

had one of the better touchdown catches you'll see all year. But anyway, let me get to the end of game scenario, okay? Because I thought it was really one of those strategic moments that you don't see a lot. And so it starts with, you know, 2221 Buffalo, and Denver is driving to try to get into field goal range. And they actually get on a third and 10 after a zero coverage blitz sack. another zero coverage blitz, and Russell Wilson throws it down field and it draws a pass interference. So they're at Buffalo's 17-yard line with 29 seconds to go, and Buffalo has two timeouts left.

Denver doesn't have any left, okay? So let me just restate that. 29 seconds to go. Denver's at Buffalo's 17-yard line, down 22-21. So it's a field goal that they're looking for to end the game. hopefully a walk-off field goal, but Buffalo still has two timeouts left. So they take a knee on first and 10. Buffalo immediately calls a timeout.

They take a second knee with 25 seconds to go, and Buffalo calls their third and final timeout, and there are 24 seconds left in the game. So it's third down and long. It is at the 20-yard line of Buffalo with 24 seconds to go, and neither team has a timeout left. So Denver wants to kick a walk-off field goal, but Buffalo has prevented that by using their two timeouts.

And now the only way they can kick off a true, that they can get off a true walk-off field goal, is to knee it again and then rush the field goal team out in rush mode and kick it with the clock winding. down and hopefully that's, you know, if it's not the exact final play, it's close enough to just a couple of seconds left and they leave Buffalo with no time left. So it was interesting from this standpoint, and that is because it's third down, you can't take a knee and then take a fourth knee, right? On fourth down, you can't take a knee. Their plan by starting the taking the knees was,

we'll take a knee, we'll wind the clock down to three seconds, we'll take another. knee and we'll send the field goal team out and they'll kick a game winning field goal. But Buffalo decided smartly to use their timeouts. And so Buffalo on third down, it was interesting and I was sitting there watching this thinking, I think they should snap it to Russell Wilson. He should roll right out of the pocket and he should throw the ball as far as he can throw it out of the end zone or out of bounds. Burn seven or eight seconds on the play. Send your field goal team out without having to rush the field goal team. Kick a field goal and when the field goal goes through, there will be like 13 seconds left, 14, 13, 12, something like that. And then if, you know, if Josh

Allen from the 25-yard line can complete a massive play down the field out of bounds because they'd need the clock to stop and they get a field goal team off, you know, a field goal off, in that amount of time, so be it. But I'm not going to rush my field goal team out there and have it be one of those fire drill field goal deals. Well, it's not what they did. They took the knee. They took the knee and they went fire drill field goal.

Here comes their field goal team rushing out. They, by the way, were so well prepared for this. They had done it at the end of the first half. Ben Kotweka, by the way, is the special. teams coach for Denver. Remember him? He was the special teams coach here from 2014 through the 2018 seasons under Jay Gruden. They had done this at the end of the first half. I actually tweeted out, what an impressive, you know, fire drill kind of field goal operation that was with no timeouts left, and they got it off just in time. Now, 24 seconds taking the knee, you're going to

have enough time to get everybody on, but it's still in rush mode. So they chose to go that route. and they were in rush mode and Will Lutz missed the kick with about six seconds to go in the game. It was wide right, 41-yarder. But Buffalo also in field goal rush defensively mode, they had 12 men on the field. I've thought about this several different ways. one of the things that I thought of is that it may have been smarter for McDermott, Sean McDermott, the Bills coach, to not call those time out so quickly or not to call his last time out so quickly. But after the second down, Neal, take it down to like 16 or 17 seconds and call the timeout,

rather than calling it with 24. because at that point, then Buffalo is going to have to probably decide to kick the field goal on that play or take the snap, run around, throw it through the back of the end zone. But when you do that, you're also risking a penalty, which would come with a 10-second runoff. You know, a lot of things can happen. So I did think maybe McDermott should have called the time out with like 17 seconds left instead of 24. and then Denver would have thought, do we really want to take a knee and try to barely get this kick off?

No. They would have probably kicked it right then and there, and Buffalo would have gotten the ball back with 13 seconds to go. But anyway, it was an interesting, I don't think I've seen a situation like that at the end of a game where both teams are out of timeouts, one team's down to their final down before a fourth down kick, and, you know, the clock's going to be tight.

Well, the bottom line is, they rushed him and he missed, but they also rushed Buffalo and they had 12 men on the field. And then when they were able to calm down after the 12 men on the field and a shorter kick, he drilled it through the uprates. Interesting situation. I don't know, maybe to me, not to you guys. Denver, 4 and 5 Buffalo in big trouble right now at 5 and 5. This quick tweet that I wanted to read, it came from Dave.

Dave wrote, for the reasons you stated, I agree with you that it was correct not to go for two at the end of the game. We're talking about Washington, Seattle. But there's another reason not mentioned. Even if Washington were successful on a two-point PAT, this would have enabled Seattle to use all four downs throughout their final drive. Yeah, I don't think I mentioned that. That's a really good point, Dave. It's a part of it, too. never considered that they would go for two when Diami Brown scored with 52 seconds left.

I think it would have been 100% the wrong decision. Seattle had timeouts left. Washington only had one. And therefore, you know, you're putting the game essentially on that one play, a less than 50-50 play, because if you miss, it is game over. If you make it, it's not game over. As I described yesterday with Tommy on the show, going for two with 52 seconds left is going for the lead. It's not going for the win. Anyway, but to your point, Dave, the other part of it is

if you are successful in making the two-point conversion, Seattle now has to use all four downs because they can't pun it. Now, they didn't need four downs anyway, but the point is if it's a tie game and you get off the field on that third and four instead of allowed D.K. Metcalfe to be open on that slant for that big play, well, they're going to punt it on fourth down. They're not going to go for it on fourth down. So, excellent point. Really appreciate that. From Jason on Twitter, Sheehan, who cares if Hal's played one more game than everybody else?

He's leading the league in passing yards. Stop picking nits. That was funny. I appreciate the tweet. You can follow me on Twitter at Kevin Sheehan, D.C. Yeah, all I said yesterday, and I think I said this with Tommy. I know I said it on the radio show. I just pointed out that, yes, Sam is leading the league in passing yards.

However, there are several quarterbacks right below him who have played one less game. C.J. Stroud is exactly 157 yards behind Sam Hal, but he's only played nine games. So it's average yards passing per game that you want to look at when. when you have teams that have their buy weeks at different times and don't have the same number of games played. In that particular category, Sam, it's still impressive, but is 278.3 yards per game passing number is fifth in the league behind, you know, four quarterbacks who have played nine games,

and actually, believe it or not, cousins, you know who, who played eight games before he tore his Achilles in terms of average passing yards per game is second in the league behind Stroud. I think some of the frustration from some of you, I guess, was, you know, don't talk about C.J. Stroud as an MVP candidate, not mention our guy. Our guy's leading the league in passing yardage. Yeah, he is. C.J. Stroud, if you're just looking at the numbers, C.J. Stroud's having a better year than Sam Howe.

It's okay. I mean, Sam Howe's having a really good season. season and an unbelievable stretch of three games in a row, as we've talked about, 1260 passing yards in the last three weeks. I mean, eight touchdowns, you know, an incredible completion percentage, you know, 69 plus percent. But in terms of the year Stroud is having, Stroud right now is, you know, Sam's QBR number is still 21st in the league at 47.5. Now, a lot of that has to do with the Buffalo game and the giant game and the games that came before the last three with all of the sacks. C.J. Stroud's QBR is 63.3. C.J. Stroud's got 15 touchdowns,

two picks. Sam's got 17 touchdowns, nine picks. You know, Sam right now in terms of touchdown passes, is tied for fifth in the league with 17. And he's been excellent. I mean, I'm not knocking Sam at all. I mean, if you've been listening to this, you know, show over. over the last three weeks, I have gone, you know, all in on Sam's performances here over the last three weeks, which leads me to this. And then we'll get to John Kine. So I did this on radio this morning where I basically said, look, where are you in Sam Hal? Are you all in? Or are you still thinking that if we get to April and we've got like a top 10 to top 15 pick and it's a, it's a quarterback rich draft right now with the likes of Caleb Williams and Drake May and

Jaden Daniels and Michael Pennix Jr. Right now, like the latest order has basically Caleb Williams won, Drake May 2, and then now you see Jaden Daniels kind of moving ahead of Penix Jr. And a lot of the mock drafts, you know, we've got a lot of flip-flopping to go between now and April. But I just asked the question on, you know, do you even need to think, that come April, you'll be looking at quarterbacks. And we put that out as a poll question. You know, if they end up in the top half of the draft, should they target a quarterback? 90.2% at this point, no. And we took calls in the 90% of the calls. We got our guy. We know it already after 10 games this year, 11 overall. So I'm going to ask, you know, John, what he thinks, you know, when he comes on.

And my answer to this question as to whether or not, you know, we know we've got them. You know, it's over. We got our quarterback. We're good. Forget the draft. The draft should be about adding an offensive lineman or, you know, a Brock Bowers, the tight end from Georgia. Can you imagine that guy on this team? That would be fun.

My position hasn't changed with respect to the long term. Clearly, if you've been listening, you know how promising, I think, the last three weeks have been. and how the trend is his friend. It has been really, really high-level quarterbacking the last three games. I mean, I think I've graded them out as an A-minus for all three games. B-enemy, I give a lot of credit to B-enemy. I love what they've done with Sam in terms of getting him into a style of play that I think suits him. And I am looking forward to Sam against Dallas, against San Francisco, against the Jet.

you know, and I hope these games are meaningful games somehow for Washington, like they're still mathematically alive, because those will be the three best defenses they have faced. These last three games against the Eagles, Patriots, and Sunday against Seattle are not against, you know, at this point, yeah, Philadelphia included, top flight defenses. They're not this year. You know, in New England's, they caught, you know, the week after, you know, an injury to their best defensive player. So I am looking forward to like the Thanksgiving Day game against Dallas. They're a bona fide top 10 defense, Jets, 49ers down the road. But, you know, I want to see the rest of it. Like I said yesterday, three weeks in a row is great.

And it is a good trend. And it is starting to speak to some level of consistency. But that giant game was still only three weeks ago. You know, that Buffalo game was only two months ago or month and a half. half ago or whatever it was. But yeah, you know, the good news, as I've said multiple times, we don't have to make up our minds today. I'm not going to make up my mind, but I have been very, very impressed with Sam Howe over the last three games. And I think one of the real, you know, like the personality part of it, the work ethic part of it, the loving football part of it,

the coachability part of it, we know we have that. We've known that for a while. Everybody has said that about him. The physical tools he's had. Like, that was never a question. Like, you know, the, you know, I had somebody, I think on radio this morning say to me, you know, you keep kind of talking about the character and the gamer and the gritty like he's Taylor Heineke. No, no, no, no, no, no, please. You guys know, and that's not a fair thing. I've said all along, there's not a comparison between Sam Howell's physical abilities in Taylor Heineke. He's, you know, we'll see if he's got the rest of it when they start playing actual games, but he's got a much better arm than Taylor Heinecke.

He is a better physical prospect, much more so than Taylor Heineke. And we've seen a lot of that play out, for sure. Would I love if he were 6'3 instead of 6'3? Yes, true. I think that's actually that may be one of the reasons that right now he's not, you know, super comfortable or super successful as a pure dropback in the pocket quarterback. He's much better, as we've seen the last three weeks in quick game and getting outside the pocket.

But man, just the last couple of games, really impressive. And the off-schedule, the creativity, the plays that he's made outside of the pocket, phenomenal. But no, I am still today in that mode of paying attention to the quarterback. quarterbacks in the draft. Because there were a couple on Saturday, Jaden Daniels, number one. He had one of the great performances I think I've ever seen by a college quarterback. And I've been saying this all year about LSU and about him in particular. It's the best offense that I've seen all year. It's the best quarterback that I've seen all year. And there have been good ones.

I mean, Caleb Williams clearly, Drake May. Pennix Jr. throws about as good a deep ball as anybody that'll be in the draft. Bo Nix has been spectacular. Quinn yours at times has been really, really good. But Daniels for me, like just the thought of him being there at say 15 or 14 or 13 or 12 where Washington picks today before Sam plays these final seven games, yeah, I would be still interested in him and in the draft. Or maybe Caleb Williams with a trade up. Or Drake May, he slipped a little bit. Who knows? But it's certainly been fun to watch in the last three weeks,

and I can't wait to watch the final seven games. There you go. John Kime next after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. Mention my name, Kevin Sheehan. They'll give you a free estimate right now.

Five years, interest-free, plus buy to get to free. That's half price on Windows. Winter is coming, as Ned Stark once said, many years ago in my favorite all-time show Game of Thrones. And it is coming. It's going to be a cold Thanksgiving. That's in the forecast, and it's going to be a cold and snowy winter, according to all of the forecasters. If you've got older windows, if you've got older windows, he said, call 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com.

You'll save big on your energy savings. and you'll say big on Windows. 86690 Nation or Window Nation.com. Jumping on with me right now is one of my favorite people to have conversations with about a lot of different things. Oh boy, if you could have heard the conversation before we started to record this podcast, John Kime is with me. John underscore Kime on Twitter. So I'm going to start with just this. Is anybody getting fired before the end of the season?

And when I say the end of the season, maybe they'll do something with a game left to get a head start on the new hires. But do you see anything happening between now and, say, January 1? At this point, Kevin, I do not. Because I don't see what you do if you make that kind of a move. And we were always told that Rivera would get the year that Josh Harris wants to see, give them, Give them a year, and especially like if you know, if you're Josh Harrison, we can all look at things and say, it's not looking good right now. But what Josh Harris knows also, and I'm sure he's got a lot of opinions right now are thoughts, but he also knows that, well, in the last couple years, each year they go on this little run. Can they do that again?

So I think you're going to wait to see that, and then at that point, if it doesn't happen, you only got a couple games left. Like, what's the point at that point? is it just to kind of give fans some satisfaction? That doesn't really help anything here. I think the other question that is, if you did it now, but my point is, like, I think he wants to give me the year to measure him, to measure Rivera under his turn, not under what happened under Dan Snyder,

because as we know, there's a lot of crazy stuff, and we can sit there and pick apart the coaches. They didn't win. I get all that, and that's why they're in a spot where they have to win now. but if you're Josh Sheriff, what you know is that that other owner was crazy and not a good person to work, not an easy person to work for, not a productive person to work for. So why would you only measure him under that prism when he hasn't worked for you?

So I think he wanted to give me the year for that. So that's one part of it. And then I think the other part of it, who would take over? Because, you know, I know like there's a, oh, well, let the enemy. Well, first of all, if you really want the enemy to be a head coach, most of the time, 90% of time, at least an interim coach is not going to make it. And, you know, good for Antonio Pierce for what he's doing out in Las Vegas, but that doesn't always happen.

That rarely happens, right? And, you know, shoot, Rich Pesachia did a good job with the Raiders, did not get the job afterwards. And if you want the enemy to get that job, I think the best way for him to do that is a stay as an offense coordinator and prove what he can do there. and if you think he's good for Howell's development, that's where you want to stay, because that's where he, that's where it be best served in that role. So then who takes over? So I think that's also part of it is that aspect.

So I think it's all of those things tied together. No, I do not expect anything. But here's the other part, like if they lose the next four games, who the heck knows, right? And, you know, at that point, especially if they were to actually lose to the Giants, a team that is clearly not interested in winning, yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you're losing to, you know, Tommy DeVito and that, like, then, you know, what are you going to do? But I don't see anything because I just don't know. I don't think that's what they, I know that's not what they want to do.

You know, you actually brought up, I don't think you, I don't think this is what you would bet on, but you actually brought up that, you know, the patients also includes seeing what he can do and seeing if he can make a run. but I would ask you to what end? You don't think that there's any chance that Ron Rivera and Jack Del Rio and this coaching staff are going to be back next year, do you? I think clearly it's a long shot now, and I would also think, listen, I think if you, it certainly is a long shot. I mean, I would just say it certainly doesn't feel like it's kind of way. Barring an NFC championship or Super Bowl run, which, yeah.

Right, I think it would take a lot. Now, could I see, could you see, like, are there ways you can parcel that out? If you say, like, okay, let's say they get hot and they win nine games, and they win a playoff game, and Sam Howell looks like the guy. But what we know is Josh Harris likes a general manager in charge and then the coach, right? That's the way he prefers a setup. So would they do something even in that way? And then would you say, okay, you got the offensive side right?

What about the defensive side? because the defensive side isn't fixed, then that's all part of the equation, too. So I think it's, you know, they certainly are very much, at this point, you'd have to say a long shot, and, you know, unless they turn around, and the problem is, like, while the offense looks like they're improving, the defense is not. And so that's a big part of the problem. So, you know, and the big plays allowed.

I mean, that hasn't changed, and do you think it's going to change? Because if it doesn't, you're playing good teams coming up, and it's going to be a big problem. So, you know, it's clearly it's a long shot at this point. I mean, we're going to get to the conversation of the moment right now, which also is part of the conversation of the future, which is Sam Howell and Eric Bianamy, etc. But I just want one more on sort of the big picture on fast forwarding to, you know, January, whatever, after the season finale. Are you hearing any names on GM's coaches, but GM's first? and taking it back a step, is there somebody that you think is advising Harris right now on the candidates or that pool of candidates that he should be putting together to interview once the season ends?

All right, so I don't know who I haven't heard any names because for my purpose is what I have to do right now. I have too many other things to go down right now and I also think you know like shoot if they beat Seattle which was a very realistic possibility and a couple plays and you've got that now you're 5 and 5 and now things look a little bit different the possibilities look different right

and so you know if you're Harris you I don't think you're going to want that stuff out but even though we've you know the whole goofy trading picks for Bill of Belichick thing. Like, come on. But, so I don't know what they've done, if somebody advising them, there's no way a guy like that who has experienced professional league doesn't already have a list of people. Listen, if he wasn't, if he wasn't, they've had this in the past, there have been times

the past, like, I know that they have the list of possibilities just in case. Most times you have, right, it's like that wouldn't be, that would not be unusual at all, you have to plan for it. You can't get to the end of December and say, okay, well, looks like we're not going to keep them now what? This guy has not made his money by being unprepared. So, you know, that's, nobody has told me specifically though. I know that he's talking to people.

You know, and I know that whether, about what, you know, about the NFL, about being an owner, about, you know, analyzing things. So whether it's just specifically about this, I don't know, but like, I can't imagine that it's not happening. It has to be happening. How is it? Yeah. How is it not?

I mean, plus, yeah. I mean, he's a sports guy. He owns sports teams. He was a minority shareholder in the Steelers. He's got to have a person or a group of people saying, here's the direction you go in and creating the pool of candidates for the person that's going to be. Because I do think, you know, based on what I've heard, that they are going to go. go in that direction, which is hiring a lead football person slash GM to go that route, yeah.

Right. Which will be nice. Listen, he's on record as saying that his setup is GM then gets to hire the coach. So that, and that's what he's done with the Devils, if we did with the 76ers, it's what he's ultimately going to do here. So, yes, I do think that there are people, because sometimes you may have people. people who call you or text you and ask you a question, like, why are you asking me that? And it doesn't have to be about anything, you know, not specifically about this, but about

some other things like, okay, is this somebody who's doing some, quote, unquote, investigative work for the owner? I don't know. And it's one of those, like, you know, they probably wouldn't tell you anyways. And so that's fine. But, um, so I mean, you have to be, you have to be prepared. And again, it doesn't mean it's going to happen, but you have to at least be ready for the possibility. And if you're not, you're doing a disservice to your franchise. And I don't think that's what this guy is going to do. And he knows people to lead, right?

And he knows, I mean, he knows, he's a sports guy. He knows what leadership looks like. He knows what he's looking for in the people that he's hiring to lead his team. So that's all, so, like, I don't doubt for a second that he's, got, you know, again, you have to be prepared because, because the worst thing you do is you tear up the list if these guys win six in a row, right? All right, so you didn't need it. I think it's got to be more than six in a row because six in a row doesn't take you to the end of the regular season. But I don't think they're going to win six in a row. I know, I know,

I know, of course, of course. All right, let's talk about the team. So where are you on Sam Howell? Have you decided? I mean, I've always thought the kid could be good. I mean, going into the season, just some of the stuff that I liked about him, I always felt translated well. And I go back, you know, we were talking out there about Kirk Cousins. I go back to Cousins. Don't tell people, don't tell people that off the air we were talking about Kirk Cousins. You know how much that triggers people. Why did you do that? I'm going to have to edit this out. No, I won't. All right. Keep going. Yeah, well, that's Kevin Shee and S.H.

By the way, I didn't, I don't think I brought him up. I think you brought him up. Oh, we were just talking about, and just so people know, it's a shame the guy got hurt. So that's what it was. And he's playing really well. We were talking about some other things, too. But anyway, go ahead.

But that was the private thing. Anyways, but my point in that is they're different style of quarterback. But what I always liked about cousins, he's very, and again, they're different people, too. But cousins were like, he's always studying. He's very smart. He had a, he has a, he has a, he coaches, like, love. his arm talent because it's quick twitch, right? And not that he has a cannon arm, but it's a quick twitch arm.

You see it, boomgo. And Howl has some traits. They're like, okay, they're tough, right? And Howl's got the tough, and he works his ass off. And he studies a lot. He's a big-time studier, and he's got really good leadership skills without trying to be a leader. People just want to follow him.

And so, if you look at, like, how does a guy go from, like, a mid-rout pick to becoming a quality NFL starter? Like, I look over, okay, that's what he did. This guy's got some of that stuff in them. So I thought, like, going into the year, that my question was, like, I think he's a starter in this league. The question is, to what level? That's what we didn't know. And so, you know, the sacks early on especially were a major problem.

And if, you know, last three games, they've done a great job. He's done a great job getting rid of the ball, do all those things, and limiting it at because history shows if your stack rate is at a certain percentage, it's going to be tough to have a long career. NFL passes, even if they're stacked a lot, the stack percentage is not nearly as high as what his had been in those first of the games. A lot of, definitely on him, definitely on scheme, definitely on protection.

So it's a mixed bag. But the bottom line is way too hot. And better lately. So I think over the last seven weeks we've seen the growth in, too, is he's become a really good playmaker. And, you know, and I think what I like is that he doesn't let the rush, he hasn't let the rush disturb his game. And there are sometimes

I think like he might check down a little bit early now, but it's not all the time. It's not the John Beck versus the 49ers, Roy Kluve 75 passes. It's like, okay, there's a play the other day. I was just watching it before we were talking, and it was like, okay, McCloren's probably open here. You probably could have forced that, not even force it. You could have gotten that in there, but you're starting to feel the rush for a bit, so you check it down, you get three yards.

You know, I mean, there are a couple times like that, but it's not consistent like that. does look to make plays. I think that's a hard thing to instill in a quarterback, so I love that he has that. So I like him. I mean, I have, if they said we're going to build around him for next year, regardless of the coach, that's fine with me because I think the kid can play. You know, I do think I want to see how it looks the rest of the year. You're facing some really good teams and pass rushers coming up.

I think that's going to be a tremendous test for them in a good way, because I think you can learn a lot more about him and the direction of all. this. And so I like where he's at. Like I, I mean, I do think, again, limit the sacks. If he continues to do that, but I think he can be a solid starter in the NFL. How much credit for this three-week run, which has been, you know, the only three-week run, the consistency of his season here in 2023, have been the last three games, you know, the Eagles game, the Patriots game, and the Seahawks game. How much credit for the reduction of sacks, for just the overall performance, do you give to Eric B. Enemy?

I think it certainly plays a part in there because there have been sometimes where I think some of the things that they were hoping to see early in the Giants game. You're seeing a little bit earlier now. I don't even say it's more crossing around. I think there's some built-in, as Ron Rivera, like I say, the extended handoff. and maybe a little bit more of those. But I also, you know, so I think that's definitely part. And it does seem like, it does seem like at times where it feels like, and I have to go back and watch in some of these games, like, okay,

there are some built-in answers here, right? Or just like you know where your checkdowns are better. Definitely that compared to say the Giants game as an example. Correct. And I think that, you know, so I think that that's, I think the enemy has to be a part of that because he's the office coordinator. I think if I'm going to say sometimes, if you're putting in a position where you think like you're not helping the kid here,

well, I think you can't just say he doesn't get any credit because I think he does. Definitely think he does. I think the game patterns have been good. But I think, you know, you look at the change inside with Larson and Chris Paul, is that a tremendous change? Like I think Larson is a little bit more stout at times. I don't think they're perfect by any means. I just think that Larson has been more.

stout inside, which helps form a better pocket for a guy who sits for one. And I think with the interior, you need that for him. Because, you know, again, I heard a lot about the Drew Brees model in New Orleans and how, you know, they built that with strong interior play because of his size. It gives him a better chance to be in the pocket and with vision. And I think that he's getting that. I also think, Kevin, especially last week, I felt like, and sometimes it leads him getting out of the pocket early, but I feel like he's feeling and sensing the pressure and seeing it better than he was early in the year. And he's ready to react quicker. And there were times early in the year, like I didn't feel like he was ready to react from it, though he may take

a certain stance and maybe not be ready to get out of there. Like he, you know, maybe it was like in Carolina, you're like, okay, this opening year, I can get through there because in college I did. Then you find out the NFL, you can't, right? Because they're quick and they're fast. But I feel like he's a little bit quicker to recognize this, which then helps him avoid it. I think he did a good job of that the last couple games of avoiding facts just with his reaction time, how quickly he's getting to maybe a second read or to the checkdown to avoid stuff. So I think there's always a combination of things, and it was a combination before, but I do

think a lot of it was, okay, he's a young quarterback. And you have a line that certainly was not very good, but you had a line like that who which maybe for a veteran quarterback would have been okay because they're going to go through the progression faster, blah, blah, blah, blah. But for him, he needed more. He needed better. And I think they certainly know that now. But so I think there's a combo effort, but I do give Howell himself a lot of credit because some of the big plays that have happened in the last couple of week, those are off like, those are, you know, more off schedule. Yeah, no, he's been terrific off schedule.

Last two games in particular. But I do think, like I said, I do think you have. have to give the enemy credit because he's the one, I think there have been some times where they've gotten into a better rhythm with things. So, yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean, I think that the last three games in particular coming off that giant game, the emphasis on the quick game, especially early and getting him into a rhythm and getting him confident. And putting a defense a little bit on its heels a little bit has really been beneficial. It's funny because I've mentioned this and I don't want anybody to think that this is a

defense of Ron Rivera because I have not defended Ron Rivera other than for the leader he appears to be in the likability factor with people in football because I don't think he's done a great job coaching this team here the last couple of years. But I think after that Buffalo game, I'm pretty much sure that I know, and I think you do too, that he said, we can't continue to do this. It's almost hard to evaluate him if he's going to get sacked at this ridiculous rate. We've got to come up with a way to get the ball out quicker. And I give B&M some credit for that. Of course.

Yeah. And Ron probably gets some credit for that too. Oh, definitely. And because things like that, like in the past, when he says stuff like that, you know, in the past it was all with Scott Turner was you know, oh,

we need to get back to doing this. And I meant running the ball and then next week you'd see a lot more run. Yeah.

And with the enemy, it's not, he doesn't say that with the enemy, but that is the part like finding ways to protect him. If you're going to,

like, again, if you're going to call a lot of passes, you have to find ways to protect this kid, but they've thrown as many passes

out of five-man protections more than anybody, I think. And that's Kansas City style too. But you have Patrick Mahal Mahomes. So,

like they do chip a lot on the edges. But that's why I like the reason they made the change after New York is because the protection calls kept breaking down. And then, you know, Nick Gates, that's on the center. That's partly on the center. You know, because Sam Hall has a role in that too, but it's a lot on the center, and especially up front. And then I think the stoutness, for lack of a better word, with Larson, who weighs about

30 pounds more than Gates, that also matters. And not that, you know, that neither, you know, Larson's not some all-pro center and Nick Gates is not to all, but you have to at least be able to give something, and that's what Larson has given them. And I don't even know, like, how he grayed out. I just know that the pockets in the interior, but there are sometimes against, like, Philadelphia, Philadelphia has a kind of an undisciplined pass rush. And they leave gaps, and they consistently did that, but like last week there were times where they did a pretty good job against the interior. and if the ends are up, and it gives Hull a chance to find a gap and get out of there, and he's done that.

And going back to, like, sometimes a scheme, like there are plays where there was a play the other day where there's a too deep look, and you had McCorn breaking on a deep post, and it's there. But one of the guys that you may have been causing who was getting shoved back, and so I don't know of how he could see it.

Yeah. But if he could buy enough time to see it, and they had a concept where Samuel was running across or taking the other safety's vision away, so it's going to be there, but the safety's getting pushed back, so then while how improvised on the play,

the initial concept was really good. It's just that the protection didn't help him. He wasn't fact, and I think they end up with either, I can't, there's something to Gibson, I think, but it was there, the concept was good, and so you have to, like, just because the play didn't end up that way, you look at the concept

to and evaluate it, and it was good. Yeah, I think actually it's funny. I took a call on this during the radio show. And this is, you know, you just mentioned something that made me think of it. And that is, it's okay if Sam Howell turns out to be a true West Coast distributor quarterback. We've seen a lot more of that over the last three games. And he's had the most consistent performances of this season. And there's a lot. There are, you know, the pure drop, and I'm talking about, you know, third down and long dropbacks, not first down, first and ten play action, five, step seven. That's different, especially if you've already established some of the quick game stuff, and we've seen that over the last couple of weeks. It's very possible that he won't be a great in-the-pocket, you know, pure dropback quarterback. He's not good at that right now.

I think we can all agree that's not as strength right now. doesn't mean that he won't get better at it. But I think there's people that get hung up on the way they're, you know, the pass run ratio, the number of quick game throws, you know, it was 30 to 17 on Sunday. I went back and looked at all of them. Of the 47 that were called 30 were quick game screens, sprint outs, whatever. And the 17 pure dropbacks were a mix of some of the first and 10 take a shot off play

action with more max protect. but it's okay if he ends up. Joe Montana was a pure West Coast quarterback. Now, eventually you've got to be able to throw from the pocket on third and long, understood. But it's okay if that's how he ends up being very successful. I hope that people understand there shouldn't be pushback to that style of quarterback. No, there shouldn't be. Because he's shown that he can make plays like that.

I mean, most of the big plays the last two, weeks have come off of that ability. Yeah. And so I think, you know, you have to, right, but that's why you have to build a strong interior, as much as anything, I think a strong interior wall for him. Yeah. So that way, like, you know, obviously you want a good offense, you want good linemen everywhere, but for his style, and I think like, you know, now if you're an end, a defensive end,

you can always compensate for that. Like, if you're getting upfield and they're not getting penetration inside, now he's got places to go. and he can still maintain vision. He can still kind of slide a little bit and maintain the vision or see something, right? And so, you know, he definitely has to learn in the pocket. Sometimes some of the movement can be really good, and sometimes it's like, you know, this is where it's like this becomes instinctual.

And the throw he had to McCorn last week where he's sliding in the pocket to the left, but he's sliding into pressure. Now he makes a hell of a throw, but he's tripping over, he's almost tripping on his guy, but he makes a hell of a throw. And so, like, that's what it's like, you don't have to move quite that much. But that's like, it becomes like an individual play-by-play coaching basis for him.

But there are so many, there are a lot of things that you just can't coach. Like, who can coach that, okay, you have a blitzer coming here, step up, tuck the ball, look downfield, and then flip a sidearm throw to the running back. Oh, God.

That was my favorite, that was my favorite throw of the game. Oh, it is. It was phenomenal because, I mean, so, like, there are times. He actually didn't. He actually didn't even step up. He stepped to the left a little bit to get his arm to an angle where he could flick it out there 30 yards to Gibson.

It was great. But he starts to tuck the ball. And, you know, I remember back in the day, Robert was a running quarterback. And there were times he would tuck the ball and drop his eyes 10 yards in the back field. And that's something that he said he had to work on. They wanted to work on it because you know that the goal is keep the play along. live. And if you notice because of how the ability to run, what are people doing? Both those times like the Places Robinson, they're coming up at him because they're afraid of what he's, he's not Lamar Jackson, but he can run and he can hurt you with his legs.

So like then, and then now you've got Robinson right there. So now you know he can do that. Are you going to stay back if so he'll just run? And so I just, I like that ability from him. And just, I have a story coming out later this week about, some of this stuff, but like I was talking to, Kurt Warner maybe about this, and just the ability to basically not feel the rush, but also to stand there and be able to be aggressive down the field.

Like, guys who are quarterback, you hear that a lot from them, that ability, he has that, he's willing to be that guy. You know, I mean, the throat of the Yami Brown late in the game was terrific now. Having said that, if he could have probably hit him in rhythm on that play, and it would have,

and it would have been, like, maybe the 10-yard line wouldn't have been a touchdown because it most likely. But in rhythm, he probably could have had him. And in hindsight, it'd burn more clock and you go into overtime or whatever. But it was like, you know, but he is willing to make certain throw. And, you know, I joke about John Beck, but like we saw what happened to a guy, just a pedestrian quarterback like John Beck, 10 sacks against Buffalo the next week, 13 passes to the running back.

You do not see that with Howell. You see the guy still playing his game, and I love that because it shows you that he hasn't altered who he is. As a quarterback, he didn't let it get to him. And so I think that's where I'm like, now, you know, I want to see more, like, build the wall in front of him and give him a more of a chance. Give him some more, you know, I say weapons. Everybody wants a lot of weapons, but a more diverse cast of weapons. You know, get enough to get a younger tight end here who can really move, you know, things like that. that you can, you know, I'm sure they'll do that in the offseason,

regardless of who's here, just to give him more opportunity, you know, give him more because he has shown that he has that guys like playing with him. You know, I mean, they like, they liked Heineke, but they recognize his limitation. They knew that, you know, they knew what they were. Yeah, of course. They knew what he was, but they liked him, but they understood the limitations. Yeah, this is a different physical being. Correct.

With how, I think they realized, like, this kid can play. and they like Black and they like who he is. He's a natural. He's a leader without trying to be a leader. Yeah. I'm looking at on the All-22, the Diami Brown thing, and I mentioned yesterday on my recap that it was a situation for Seattle. One of the reasons he had the time that he had is they really weren't. They were in contain rush mode.

They didn't want him to get out of the pocket and make a play. They were very much in sort of a contained rush with four. It was actually borderline three kind of people rushing because one was really incontained. But he had a chance, you're right, to hit Diami in stride out of his break. It may not have scored on that. And it may have been worked to their benefit because they could have. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

Right, right. Then the two-point conversion attempt would have been more of a conversation versus, yeah. Okay, you would have lost by two instead of three. but yes but the point is like he did have that but he stayed with it

and what I like about him too and I do think even on that one like yeah he could have it he had four four seconds of throw so yes they're contained we've seen teams but you still get home on those situations before

and I like that he maintains there's a calmness to him when he plays and I like that I love it you know and so that's why like you add all that up. I'm like, yeah, I mean, the only way, the only way I'd say

know, is like if some, let's say they end up making a change and new coach comes in and they have a shot of the guy that this guy loves in the draft, I don't know who that would be, but I don't think they're going to have that shot. But, you know, is there, is that what you do? I don't, I mean, I don't think you have to because he has shown that like, okay, see where it goes. And if it doesn't work in the next year, you can get someone else. But then you, but like build, build up that line. Yeah, I mean, get some stoutness in there. I mean, I talked a little bit about it in the open.

My position is this. I'm, there's so much that's promising the last three weeks. But we're also three weeks removed from a pretty wretched game and a month and a half removed from one that was even worse than that, you know, against Buffalo. And 11 or 10 games, you know, this year is a. small sample size. The good news is they don't have to make a decision today. We don't have to declare our position today. Seven more games, and I think you said this, and I emphasize this yesterday, which is one of the reasons I was upset that they actually lost this game. I think it's

just going to be a better measure of him if these games matter down the stretch mathematically to a playoff berth. Sure. That's a good point. Yeah, it's just a better way. If they're playing the three or four, completely out of contention. And now it's like, all right, well, let's see what Chris Rodriguez looks like more. Let's see what, let's try some young players in spots. You're not getting the full experience. It doesn't mean that you can't evaluate them, but it's just, it's kind of like the Dallas game was for me at the end of last year.

You know, it was not a, it wasn't a game they had to win. I want them to playing games they have to win. I think it's a better measure. Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's a good point. And I do think that if they came down, I think they're going to play, who they're going to play, largely to see what he can do. Fair. They didn't.

They didn't in the season finale last year. They sat a bunch of people. I agree. Yeah, so, but I, but yeah, but I do think, like, he's been in a lot of situations against good teams already where he's had to do something in the fourth quarter. Yep. He's delivered. You know, Philly a couple times. And I think what you, what I want to see is, like, some, the.

even against the Giants, bad, horrible first half. But, you know, he and some of the calls were adjusted. Yes, second half. And the funny thing, yeah, the funny thing in that game, like I didn't think the gameplay in the first half was different when I rewatched it than I thought live. However, there were still things they did better in the second half called more, you know, more fade, more, more, the mess, all that.

So that all helped him. But I also think what I also like about him is he does respond. And so I think that's the mark of a really good competitor that when he has a bad game, you know, they had a horrible game against Buffalo, and they go out and he has a really good game at Philly. You know, a game that he played well enough to lead them to a win. Yeah. Look, I mean, he did not have a good game in his first game against Arizona and then bounce back with a really good game against Denver. Yeah, at a comeback game.

And then, like even Chicago, bad game in the first half, and then was on, was really good in the second. half. There were a couple of throws that were, of course, missed, but bounces back. And, you know, and I know, I don't, the Giants think, but their defense is good. Yeah, it was good that day, and it was good the week before against Buffalo. Yeah, now they're, yeah, now they're going to injuries. Right, yeah, exactly at the time. But that's, that's the other trait that I really like about him if he has that. So I think there's a lot of positives with him. And, I mean, I haven't seen I mean, he's as good as they've had.

Now, I will say, like, Alex Smith was a different quarterback. So, I mean, different, like, he wasn't going to throw it around and pass regularly for 300 yards. He was a pure, he's a very good manager, strong leader, smart player. And that's why they were 6 and 3 when he was healthy. So he's not the same kind of passer that Howl was. Right. But how is the best pass that they've had since Kirk left. and, you know, I think he's at this stage in his career, he's further ahead than where Kirk was.

Because at this stage, Kirk was... Throwing a lot of picks. Throwing a lot of picks and letting it get to him. Yeah. He let him bother him. Right. And that was a big thing, because I remember having a conversation about... Oh, different personality.

Different personality. Right, right. This guy's got super quick, short memory. Oh, my goodness. Kirk would obsess over the, you know, the throws that he missed or the throw. that he made that he shouldn't have made. Now, it helped him learn from it and become better. This guy's more like, I've already said it. He's more like Flacco, like not stylistically. Flacco could throw the worst ball you've ever seen that gets picked, and he just comes back and makes

the exact same throw the next time, except it's better for a touchdown. Like I've never in recent years seen a guy more oblivious to the circumstances that he's in playing the game. And I think Sam's got a lot of that, you know, I think that's a positive. Oh, it's absolutely a positive. As long as you, as long as like Rex Grossman had that. Yeah, same. But Rex threw a lot of picks.

And he's like, he's just like, he couldn't help himself. Like, I've got to take this shot, man. And, you know, he was like a junkie looking for adrenaline shot, right? Because it's like, I've got to take these shots off the field. And sometimes you're like, Rex, that wasn't a good throw. So what I like, what I've seen from how lately is, you know, especially Sunday, a lot more checkdown than when I'm, you're like, I've got to take down. And when I look at some of the checkdowns, like, you probably could have stayed with the play longer here,

but I appreciate that he's looking for that and aware of that, and it's preventing sacks and preventing negative plays. And it's not really altering his game. Like, okay, there's a couple plays here and there. It's not like, but he's still looking to take the shot, right? It's not like he's not gone away from that. I hear you, and I want to go back and watch some of those on some of, like, early on there's a there's a first in 10 it's the first pure dropback i mean they went quick quick quick quick quick and then they went you know basically under center first and 10

play action um and there was some pressure he nearly threw a pick to witherspoon it was actually the next one he immediately hit gibson on the checkdown immediately which it's okay you know it was a third and 14 you'd rather end up with fourth and three and punting or fourth and three with an option, then third and 23, or fourth and 23 after another nine-yard sack. And that's the Alex Smith aspect of the game, because that's what Alex would do. He understood to manage the situation. And I think that's a big thing. And now you can go back one week and we saw what happened against New England where

they're lucky that it didn't cost in the game that intercepted the end of half. Like, that's part of it as well. Like, that's the first and ten. and I don't think he probably knows what he was thinking at this point, even still. So it's not like we're far removed from some of those plays. Ron should have called the time out. Ron should have freaking call the time out. And that may be, that may be, however, that was a really, really, I don't care about the time out.

That's a bad decision. Terrible. It's a bad decision. Bad decision. Bad decision. Bad everything. Yeah. And so, yeah.

And so, but, so we're not far removed. And even in the, like, even in the fourth quarter of the other day, where he throws two touchdown passes. He almost threw two picks. But he didn't. The play before the Diami Brown touchdown was, first of all, an incredible job by him just to get a throw off under pressure.

But he did just chuck it right down the middle of the field, and he was lucky Diggs didn't pick it off. And there was one earlier where it was like, I think it was Witherspoon's fake-to-blitz, dropped and deflected, but the corner's there for maybe a pick-s-six. Yeah. But you know what? it is, it's a long foul ball. That's it.

Yeah. And, you know, it did no harm no foul. And then he came and it comes and makes – every game you can say, like, oh, this guy got away with that, right? Right. It's not like – it's not like the Heineke-Lewing living with the horse. No, no, no. He's got far fewer turnover-worthy throws than He did. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, he's been really good with that. And that's why I say, like, all those things add up for me as a guy that I want to see more and see them do more around him because I think he can play.

And I know, like, I don't, I know, I mean, I would be, I don't know why you wouldn't stick with him. And I know, like, if this group is back, they would. But if you're a new group coming in, like, I'd be excited to have that guy saying, listen, let's build in front of him and see where else we can go with this kid. Well, I think if we see six or five out of the final seven games look like the last three, I think everybody will be there, me included. I know you've got to run, but I want to really quickly ask you, because this has been. to me, you know, and I watched Ron yesterday. I watched you guys with Ron yesterday. Pick a part on the defense.

Try to get some answers. I don't think you guys got any answers because it's Ron. You know, and Ron speaks Ron ease. And it bothered me that, you know, he went to these turnovers and these takeaways that, I don't even think there have been a lot of takeaways that they haven't gotten. I mean, like he acted like there were all these plays that they've had right there, but they haven't gone their way. Other than the Doron Payne-Pain near-pick-R-Rour.

on the deflection by Two Hill, was there another turnover that they had in their hands that I couldn't remember one? Anyway. Not that I can remember, and I haven't finished watching the defense at Talk. So I don't remember those. I know, like, in previous games, there certainly have happened. Like, I mean, we saw manual forms, like, in England where he had one, and you could call a pass.

Fuller on a touchdown to DJ Moore almost had one that could have gone the other way. Right, so we've seen that. I don't remember from last week, and what I remember is they allow these big plays. So that's what I want to ask you about. Why are these big plays happening against them this year in such big numbers? Specifically why. I'm going to ask you that when we come back. We need to take a break.

But when we come back, John continues, and we'll see what his answer is to why has this defense given up the big play, as often as they have all year long. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment as we continue with our good friend John Kime from ESPN is brought to you by our friends at D-South in Navy Yard

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delicious, easy, crowd-pleasing option for your big day. So don't feel like cooking this year. Give them a shout, check out their menu, and learn more at do-south-DC.com. All right, we continue with John, and I want to talk specifically about these big plays on defense. what is the issue? Like the chunk play, the explosives, that is the issue this year. They're giving up way too many of those and no one out there has specifically explained why. The only thing I've mentioned, and maybe you have two on your pod or, you know, in your column, is they've played more man coverage this year than they played last year.

But you guys tried to get it out of run yesterday, and he just started to speak runease, and there was no translator there for it. So why have they been so vulnerable to the big play this year, which has really crushed them on defense? It has. Now, I will say, over the last four years, they have given up over at, like, the 25-yard or more longer pass plays. They're one of the tops in the league.

last year, the reason why I was optimistic for this defense this year, because last year after they bench, William Jackson, got used to the zone match, they went from being one of the worst teams in those kind of plays to one of the best. And, you know, it was over eight or nine games,

but wasn't like a small sample size for them. It was a really good job. And there's no match you're playing, well, earlier this year I heard, like, when some of the guys were having a harder time with some of the zone match principles, and you're right, they've gone to a little bit more man, more man, and you can say, like, sometimes, Kevin, and to me, like, to me, it's always

the details, right? And what does that mean? Like, so sometimes, for example, and I like Benjamin St. Juice, and I'm going to pick on him a minute, but I do, I do, too. I like him, but I think he can play in this league. It's always about how are you, how do you best use the guy? And so there have been sometimes, like, the Chicago game, for example. So if you remember, like, one of the first big plays, where the little the sail route where the guy goes in and you know

you turn your head in corner bites turn back out it's a long pass play so on that one he said that he talked about how like

and I know this because you have inside help but you play to your help you want to be on the on the outside hip right well he was too far inside

trying to be aggressive in making a play he was overly aggressive but so okay we do that well then the same thing happened against new England

now it's the fourth and three the guy's open Mac Jones just doesn't hit him. And I know for them, because I even asked, I asked both Ron Rivera and then Del Rio last week, does that concern you that while they didn't hit these, that they were available? And they're like, well, no, because they didn't hit them.

And every week, they're playing available that you don't get. But to me, it was troubling because it's a consistent pattern for them. But the point on bringing up is that he played it the same way he did the Chicago game, which is getting really aggressive inside and getting beat outside, and they're lucky, they're fortunate to happen. So there's details like that. There's mistackles. Percy Butler in that same game,

first of all, it starts with Jamie Davis, not filling his gap quick enough, and it was a little scone up in the middle. He's supposed to be in that gap. That's mistake number one, detail. Then Butler, you know, he actually had a nice game the other day

until he missed a tackle, which is part of the game. I get it. But then against the Patriots on that touchdown, the angle that you take is off. And so you allow him to stay outside. where you need to get them to cut back inside where you still have help coming.

And if you do, instead of a 64-yard touchdown, it's a 10-yard game. Right, Jack called it capping it off. You know, he describes it as capping it off. Yeah. Right, so it's the wrong angle. Sometimes, so, like, it's sometimes with Forbes, it was the eyes.

Where are your eyes, right? You know what I mean? Sometimes it's like sometimes A.J. Brown makes a one-handed catch, and what are you going to do? So, like, there's always a number of things, but to me, some of this goes back to details. and then, I mean, shoot, were they getting enough production from the defensive line? And the answer is no.

And so we see what's happened there. And so I think it's a combination of factors. You know, I mean, Butler is a young player. I think he, you know, can you get, how much better will he get? I don't know. But that, you know, that's part of the equation. For them, I just think that after a while, though, for a fan, you don't want to hear that because it's done like that for a few years, by and large.

Not yet, except last year. Yeah, exactly. Like last year, they were top 10 in yards and points, and you can say, well, that was, and they weren't that good. Well, okay, but that means that you have to look at every team in that top 10 that way. And so they were, you know, are they, were they one of the best defensive league? Maybe not, but they certainly weren't one of the worst, and they are now. Well, they were, I think they were a legitimate by most of the advanced metrics.

They were right there as a top 10 defense last year with the way they played. But not only by advanced metrics, but by people the league that you would talk. And by watching them. Now, the thing that we didn't like about last year's defense was there weren't enough takeaways. And that was apparently one of the reasons they drafted Emmanuel Forbes. And I think that then it goes back to that he has not, doesn't mean he won't, but today he has not paid off the way they had hoped. Well, they're playing too much man coverage for him. He likes eyes on the backfield.

lies on the quarterback. Guys who turn the ball, guys who turn the ball, guys who get takeaways, it's usually with the eye. Yeah, exactly. The problem for, the hard part for that he's had is there sometimes, where I know they felt like, you know, he's trying to bait guys a little bit too much into throats. Well, you can do that in college more than you can do in the NFL.

Right. It's just, it's harder to do that in the NFL because these guys are really good. And so that's, but that's like that's his learning curve. And it wasn't like every big play was made a force. fault, the Philly game, that was, those were on him, right? He was a part of all the, for those big play. And so, again, the details, like in, in a cover two, you've got to give the guy more of a, you have to miss a, you have to mis-rout much stronger than he did on the one play. And that, the reason why, because then it disrupts the timing, but allows the safety

get over the top. And so that's how helping your teammate is. And you're on the same play where they threw it to Brown, you have Kendall Full on the other side, rerouting a guy physically. right and so I saw I saw Forbes do that early in the game he just didn't do that so that it's the consistency of the details to me that's been a part of the breakdown and then after that I can't explain it because I don't know I can't wait to see how they cover I can't wait to see how they cover the dolphins in a few weeks it's it's funny because you said it and I agree with you like I watch St. Juice and I'm like I think he's a starting corner in this league

He may not be a starting one, but, you know, the throw to lock it for the touchdown is just a great throw. You know, Gino had some fucking great throws down the stretch like Hal did. But the other part of it is why is he playing outside leverage on third and four against Metcalf? I don't get that. But what do I know? Yeah. Well, see, on that one, though, like, is you talking on the fourth and five one? No, no, third and four on the field goal drive.

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, like, for them, he's playing, got inside help, and so. Yeah, there wasn't enough inside help. No, there wasn't. And so, you know, and I don't, like, I haven't talked to me about that play, but I know the fourth and five, like, he's anticipating a corner round on that one. And so he's playing that, and then you had FAA Obata dropping into the slantling and trying to take that away.

But Gino was able to pump and then get, allow Metcalf to run further inside, and Obata stayed a little bit wide, not blaming him, it's just what happened. And it created the opening for him, and then there was a pass and a fair. And that was a legit call. So, you know, but that was a good play by Gino, and then Metcalf is just a big dude. But, yeah, it's everything, Kevin. And it's not just, certainly not on, I say, Jews, I like him too. But those are some of the issues that you've seen when you talk about the consistency of the detail.

It's that. Sure. And it's not just him, but those are one. that are very vivid in my head because I talk to him about it. You know, and I like talking to him because he can explain why and what he learned and what he needs to do. And it's really insightful like that. So I like guys like that.

All right. Well, you know, would have been, I mean, I really wanted them to win Sunday. Like, it's the first time since, like, the Buffalo game. Like, the Buffalo game was interesting because they were 2 and O and I'm like, all right, I think they got a shot in this game. Can you imagine if they actually beat the Bills in her 3-0? And then Sunday, I really thought going in they had a chance, and if they'd come out of that with a win somehow,

and they didn't, and they didn't deserve to, you know, because they weren't good enough on defense. But there would have been a completely different conversation about this team, you know, had they come out. That was a game change. Yeah. That was a game changer to me, because if you want to think about the playoffs,

you had to win that game, regardless of what happens beyond the playoffs, For this group to make it, clearly that they want to make it. Whether it's a player or the coaches, it doesn't, you know, fans can feel however they want. It doesn't mean anybody's guaranteed to come back or go, right? But you want to, you want them, they want to see themselves in the playoffs. But to do that, you had to win that game because now you have Dallas twice, Miami-Sept-Defsco. You're going to have to win a couple of those games, and then make sure you beat the Rams and the Jets, possibly with Rogers.

you know, and they have a really good defense. So who knows? And so I think that's why, like, the other day was a huge, huge game for them to just, you know, to avoid, to really put yourself in a position where you can legitimately say, hey, now you have a check to it. Doesn't mean, like, if they win the next two, they beat Dallas on Thanksgiving, okay, then you can look at it differently. I think this Thanksgiving Day game against Dallas, John, is actually going to be one of the

were interesting games of the season from this standpoint. They've got a couple of these left. It's going to be the first really solid defense they have faced in a while. You mentioned the giant defense on that particular day with what the Giants had. They actually were a pretty good defensive team. They had just held Buffalo basically scoreless in three quarters on the Sunday night prior to it. But Dallas is a bona fide top 10 defense. And that's not what Seattle was.

was, not what New England was with their injuries, not what Philly has been this year. And they're going to get that with Dallas on Thanksgiving Day. And by the way, they're going to get that with the Jets on Christmas Eve. They will get that with the 49ers on whenever they play them. I think it's New Year's Eve. So there are three, you know, top 10 defenses, actually in the case of the 49ers and the Jets, top five defenses left on their schedule, which will. be, you know, good measuring games for Sam and this offense as well. I'm looking forward to

those games. And here's the thing. I actually expect them to play well against those teams. I do. I do, I do, too. I think, and that's why I say, like, I think it is a good measurement stick. I hate that phrase. I mean, not as so much as a team, but for Howell's development, right? It's a good, because it is, they have a good pass rush, and, you know, but I think it, they have a chance, like, he has a chance to go back and kind of reestablish yourself. in front of a national audience, too, because he has been playing well. And the last time people saw this team was the Bears game, and which did not go well.

So, yeah, no, I think that, and they have played pretty, I mean, they beat them last year. So, you know, and I don't see any, like, I think it should be a, I would think it's a good game. The thing that all, the thing that, like, even last week in Seattle, I thought they offensively do fairly well against them, but it was always a defense. I said, like, until you, I don't trust the defense.

They give up too many big plays, and now you're looking at teams that have big play guys. Seattle's got big play guys. Seattle's got big play guys. Oh, that's what I'm saying. That's why I didn't pick them to win. Because I was afraid of the big plays. I picked them to win, and I bet them on the money line. So I was really upset when it ended.

All right. Great job, per usual. John gives us much more time than anticipated. I appreciate it. I'll talk to you soon. All right, Kevin. John underscore Kime, everybody, on Twitter. John's got a podcast as well.

You can get that wherever you get a podcast. All right, done for the day back tomorrow with Tommy, who's doing the Monday-W Wednesday schedule this week.