The Kevin Sheehan Show - An Hour w/Czabe

Episode Date: March 3, 2021

Steve Czaban joins Kevin on the show today talking 980, all things Washington Football Team, and more. Also, if you have time, help us out and complete this survey--The Athletic Podcast Network audience survey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right, no Cooley today, no Tommy today. But maybe even better because an old friend and an old workmate, I guess you would call him, who left me by myself at the radio station.

Steve Zabin is with us today. You know, how can I be better than both Cooley and Leverro? Well, you know, two guys, two guys who you have stolen my friendship with those gentlemen, with your podcast. And I'm not bitter about it, but I'm sad. How is it that I've- Both those fools? How is it that I've stolen your- Cluelly talks to you all the time.

Cooley won't even return my texts. Tommy and I haven't spoken in forever, but I understand Tommy's living in Florida. Tommy is spending his, he's wintering in Florida. Okay. But what are you talking about? They're your friends. They've always loved you. I just ended up doing shows longer with them than you did. I know. I know. Well, you and Tommy did a show on 980 and it was a great show and you guys were great together. So that was natural for him to be part of your podcast. I've called on Tommy to be on my podcast a few times, but I felt like I was mowing your grass. So I've kind of stayed away. And it's great that Cooley is doing stuff with you. And I kid that Cooley doesn't text me back. Cooley doesn't text a lot of people back. But that's okay. Well, sometimes he doesn't have a phone to receive the text because he tends to lose it every once in a while. But I would never care if Tommy went on your podcast. Zabe has his podcast too.

The Zabcast. We all have podcasts. We all have podcasts. But, you know, it's very funny because Tommy and I, I don't know if it was yesterday's show or maybe last week. It could have been three weeks ago at this point. I'm losing track of time. But, you know, we were talking about, oh, we were talking. about old Dennis, remember a program director, Dennis.

Program director. Dennis last name, I forget. Nice fella in over his head like most PEDs. Yeah. Died his hair white. We called him Frosty behind his back. That was mean. Yes. We called him Frost. Glasgow. Dennis Glasgow. And by the way, if Dennis hears this, Dennis couldn't have been nicer and he tried his best. But you know, you and I, I think always felt the same way. And that is that a program director in a big market sort of needs to really know the market and maybe

even be from it. And Dennis was not anywhere near from being here. But the reason it came up the other day is, and I don't know how we got into the conversation, but when Tommy became Tommy, he became Tommy being a part of the sports reporters with you and Andy. And, you know, I became a huge fan of Tommy listening to Tommy do the sports reporters with you and Andy and actually you know that there were a lot of people that I loved I loved knocking and Tommy the most and Dennis. Dennis came to me and said because Doc I was doing the show with Riggins then when the station came back and merged in the whole thing they put me with Doc. Doc and I did you know a tumultuous 18 months with each other we love each other and love each other to this day. But then they put Doc with coach Thompson and I was doing

solo middays and Dennis comes to me and says, you know, is there someone you'd want to work with? And to be honest with you, I said there are basically two people. I'll work with, you know, Naki or Tommy. And I didn't even know Tommy that well. And he said, well, I'm glad you said that because we just did a deal with the Washington Times. So they're going to pay Tommy's salary, and that's the way Tommy and I kind of came together. But over the years, old Dennis, like, when Tommy and I were doing the show and, like, you know, whatever, if the show was doing well, Dennis would take credit for it.

And you know what? I'll give him credit for it because there wouldn't have been much credit to give them anywhere else. At least there's that. Yeah. That's what program directors do. Yeah. Look, Dennis was a lot better than one of the clowns that came behind him, who basically never showed up to work. Yeah.

In fact, I believe your boy Laverro's called him the ghost because he literally was more rumor than fact. He was never there. He was, and remember what his claim was, his claim was he wanted to be in his car listening to the shows, but he was never there. And, oh God. And remember. And he is currently a PD in California at a major market. Yeah. And this is the way the business works.

And you have to then, as talent, dance to the tune of whatever dumb shit coach as PD they put in there. Knowing that your ability to feed your fucking family in this business depends on you swallowing a whole lot of pride to deal with some very marginal people. Now, there are great program directors that do come. along and you cling to them and hope that they stay forever. They don't because if they're good and they're smart, they leave like Dennis Gilbert. Dennis Glasgow. Bruce. Bruce Gilbert was our CEO who we both liked and everybody liked Bruce. Yeah, but he was a program director before that. Yeah. Then he rose like anyone good enough to escape the PD ranks ends up being, and I should be very careful because my PD in Milwaukee, Tim Scott. Tim Scott's a great guy. He's the PD. He's also on air.

He does post game stuff. We get along great. he gets it. He's one of the rare ones. But generally speaking, you're right. They're pretty useless. Well, I mean, CJ obviously was not only a good PD, but he was our good friend, and we were all very close to him. If I had to count the PDs, I'd say I had three good ones and 10 ass hats over the years. Well, Gary Braun's, you know, when Gary and I, Gary Braun of the Tony Cornheiser radio show, Gary's become a really good friend of mine over the years.

Gary and I did the Riggins show together for a couple of years, which I actually really enjoyed. And Gary, I'll never forget Gary's line. You know, and I was very new in the business. He said, let me just explain something to you, given your background of not being in this business. When you get to management, C-minus, basically C-minus. And you know what? That really did hold up as very true over the years. All right. How much do you miss doing your show?

A little bit. But you got to understand. You got to understand something, CJ. CJ, I called you CD. You got to understand something, Shane. I miss every day with Scott and Sally dearly. That was the show. When Scott got whacked, the show didn't exist as it had for damn near 10 years in multiple iterations, not just locally as it was when it was.

you know, last year, but nationally as well. So my enthusiasm to do the show without Scott was very, very low. And if I didn't have this other gig on 973 of the game in Milwaukee, then I wouldn't be in this situation. I had the luxury of being able to say, you know what, I need to step aside for a minute or two, catch my breath, and then see what might come next, if anything. Yeah, and also I want to make it very clear.

and I think I did this when you did leave. This wasn't Zabe getting fired. This was more mutual. And I think people understand that. And you maybe even have spoken about it on your podcast. And you know what I think and how I felt about you and the shows you've been involved in. And I've loved all of them.

I loved it with Andy. I loved when you and Cooley and Galdi did a show. I thought it was great. It was fun. It was fun, but it was wild. Yeah. And I have really loved you and Scott and Sally together. I think you and Scott, you know, together on the national shows that you did were always so good.

And I, you know, look, there are lots of reasons for a lot of things that have happened here over the last couple months. I don't want to get into them in great detail. Obviously, you know, if things change and I hope the new things work out at the same time, I'm very nostalgic by nature. And 980's not, you know, it's not what it. was it anymore it just isn't but what's sad to me is that with the redskins name change and with even guys we kind of made fun of like larry michael hey pal and coolly being gone and doc being gone it's not the same eventually i guess i'm going to get over it but it's still a shock to the system I'm reeling. And the name and the logo matter to me. And a lot of people, not to everybody,

but to me they do. So this is like an expansion team that has been thrust upon us with a bunch of new people that are the front men and front women for the team that are going to take some getting used to. And I like Graham. I think he's doing a good job. I think Julie's great. Dee Hall, I guess, is a work in progress. But it's not the way it was. I thought you were talking about the radio station there for a moment. And then there's the radio station as well. I mean, obviously, the number of people, quality people that used to be on 980 has been whittled down so far. And this is no disparagement of the rest of the lineup after you is that it's totally not the same.

I do miss that. I do get sad about that. I try not to think about it because they say in life you should be looking forward and you shouldn't have a rearview mirror. Yeah, that's true. With that said, you know, for a long period of time, I mean, you for 20-something years, Scott Lynn for 25 years, Doc for, you know, close to 30, you know, I Galby for 20. I was there for 17, you know, and it just, it's, I've used this line and I'm going to use this line and I'm going to probably butcher it again because it's one of my favorite all-time lines from a show that you and I both love dearly. But in the finale of the office, it's when, you know, when Andy Bernard says,

I wish someone would tell us that these are the good old days before we leave them. And I love that line and I probably just butchered it, but I think most people get the point. It's like, you know, tell me these are the good old days that we're living before we've actually left them. And, you know, even though, and Tommy and I, you know, talked a lot about it when you left and then when Galdi, you know, was gone, which it just was, was a big jolt. And, you know, I'm not going to get into it in any further detail than I already have. I'm rooting for Galdi. He's going to be successful doing his podcast. We're all helping, you know, in any way we can.

And he doesn't even need our help. But it's just one of those things where, you know, you, it was sort of like being a part of a. club or a fraternity. We all didn't get along all the time. We didn't spend a lot of free time with each other, but there was this connection with the city and with sports fans in the city over a long period of time that develops in a situation like that that I don't, that I think sometimes we, you know, you take for granted until it's over. Agreed. Agreed. The sports reporters was the most fun I've ever had doing radio. And I loved it every. single day. The fact that there is a new fresh blood third person in there every day and guys like

Lovey and Nocky who quickly learned that this is pro wrestling. You give a bump, you take a bump, you get bloodied, you get over with the crowd, you don't let your personal feelings get all hurt because we're men, we're talking about sports, deal with it. And you never quite knew based on what topic, what argument, what game, who the teams would be. What be two on one, would it be one on two? Would you be the one fighting both guys? You just never knew. And that was the most fun about it.

And I still think that would be a great format for a sports radio show in a major market like DC. But it requires a program director who says, I'm going to assemble that. I'm going to hire the people who can do it, as you like to always say, and have a little bit of money and not be so cheap. and pay a third guy to come in on a daily basis and not say, well, we don't have any budget for it. That's the reason that type of show doesn't exist. Too cheap and people just don't seem to have the vision for it. How's this show in Milwaukee going? It's great.

We're doing great. It's a lot of fun. The station is barely three years old and it's already the number one sports station in town. It's being built as, more sports and stuff. So it's not hardcore sports, which I think is smart to be able to insulate yourself from the times in which the local teams are in the crapper.

And right now, Milwaukee and Wisconsin, they're riding high with the bucks and the Packers. But that can change in a heartbeat. And they've had so many years, like I look back at their history in that town. I couldn't imagine doing sports radio when the bucks were winning 19 games and had no hope for the future.

Well, wait a minute, I can't imagine. That's like the wizards. But, you know, the brewers, they're tickling greatness. They've got a great player in Yelich. So that keeps that tent pull up, even though they're disadvantaged in terms of salary cap and their payroll. And the Packers are the Packers. They're the gold standard. So, but there have been years I've thought, man, it'd be hard to do sports talk if you were just hardcore only sports on the radio.

And we're making it a station that is willing to do a little bit more than that. So it's fun. But it's different. It's fun, but it's different. I work with a young guy named Josh, who's 30 years old, Kevin. And the funniest bit I do, one of the funny bits I do is I say, oh, Josh, here, come sit on Uncle Steve's lap for a second. And then I tell him about incidents that he has no idea about in sports. But guys like you and me, we remember it like it's yesterday, you know, George Brett and the Pinetar incident.

the time that, you know, Steinbrenner tried to get Dave Winfield blackball and baseball had to step in. Crazy stuff like that. It's fun to be able to tell those stories again to a younger guy who's like, wow, that really happened. And I'm like, yep, that happened. You, you know, it's before you got to the Josh 30-year-old portion of that, you know, I've heard you, you know, over the years. I think you have a second favorite team. I think the Packers are very much a second favorite team for you. I've claimed dual citizenship.

Now, for the years that I did Bob and Brian, the morning show up there for 25 minutes a day, I always kept my arms distance. I was like, I'm rooting for them to do well, but I'm not going to say they're my team or I'm a fan or I'm not going to pretend like I've got dual citizenship because it didn't quite feel right. But now I feel like I have two passports.

and some people will vehemently argue there is no such thing in sports. How dare you? Others will say, no, you're absolutely right. I grew up in Denver's Abe, but I moved to Philly and now I'm an Eagles fan as well. I don't think you can have two teams in the same. Well, you can't have two in the same division, that's for sure. And two in the same conference, they better not have any real blood rivalry, which the Packers and the Redskins do not.

So I think I'm kind of in the clear there. I think it's debatable as to whether or not you're in the clear. Because I really think if you, and I know you, you are a hardcore, born and raised, wash ofaconian, and you love the skins and have loved them your entire life like I have, which, by the way, just to digress here for a moment, that was always the irony, right, of working at the station and being owned by the owner and being the flagship with the team. And as you and I have both said many times and all of us have said, for whatever reason, they hated us. They hated us.

They had us. They owned us. And they did nothing for us. In fact, they went out of their way the team did to sabotage us and charge the station with expenses that were rightly not ours. It was the most amazing thing ever. I kept saying in meetings, I'm like, where's our synergy? where is our listener trip on the team playing with a couple of hosts to Dallas, to boost listenership, to run a contest? Oh, they don't want to do that. I'm like, you own us. Start leveraging it, you dumbasses? Well, I mean, real quick, what I was going to say before I get to Tony Wiley here in a moment,

what I told Tony Wiley for three or four or five consecutive years is that the irony of the relationship, the antagonistic relationship that we had with the team as the flagship and also, you know, owned by the owner, is that every single person on the air wanted them to do well. You know, you were a diehard fan. I was, Andy was, Galdi was. And then, of course, they had all the former players. I mean, was Tommy a diehard fan? Was Tony a diehard fan?

No, but they had been in the market forever. I can remember saying so many times to people that I would talk to out there, what am I missing here? Like, you guys think we're out to get you, and the opposite of that is actually true. Not only do we want you to win, we need you to win. It'll be so much better for us. But I remember. That's the hallmark. That's the hallmark of a franchise and an owner that is not self-aware.

When they were doing crappy stuff, can I swear on this podcast? course you can. When they're fucking up and doing dumb shit, it's our job to say that. And they did a lot of dumb shit and they fucked up for at least 15 years straight. Okay. We have to say it. It doesn't mean we're happy about it, but we have to say it. Our listeners are our customers. You can't bullshit the customers. They see what we see. So when you're not self-aware and when you don't think it's your fault that you've been fucking up, you're going to turn outward and, somebody else, and so they blamed us. 100%. The lack of self-awareness in that organization for as long as they've had it is

incredible. And we'll get to Ron Rivera and your thoughts on him and the team here in a moment. But I was just going to tell you that you probably remember this, but there was like a three or four year period in a row where in August or, you know, right before the season or training camp started, Tony Wiley, who was the head of PR, would come to Rockville and he'd walk around and he'd ask each one of us individually, hey, what? can I do for you? And I got to the point where the last two or three years, I said to Tony, Tony, you're not going to help me. You don't want to help me. I don't understand why you don't, but that's beside the point. Here's what I would ask from you. Don't help anybody else.

You don't help us, but don't help them either. Don't help our competitors either. Because to be honest with you, we don't really need you, but we don't want to. you to then side with the competition, which, by the way, the competition had issues with them, too. Yeah. They did from time to time. I assume you've watched all the curb your enthusiasm episodes. Yeah, of course. Remember the episode where Larry David loses Jeff Garland's tickets to the Lakers because he's

stuck his leg out? And he's trying to say, he's trying to apologize. He's like, I lost my tickets. What are you doing? And Larry David says, well, can I do anything? to help and Jeff Garland says, yeah, by the team, that'd be a help. I feel like, I feel like with Tony Wiley saying, what can I do to help you? The only answer is, how about you win? That'd be a fucking great idea. No doubt. Start winning big, 11, 12, 13 wins in a single year. That's all we

really need. We'll do the rest. You know what? It's so true. And it's funny because, you know, we both and all of us sort of felt, you know, the, what I believe, to be in recent years, a significant minority of Skins fans who would get very upset when you were overly critical. Well, I mean, those were the 7,000 that were showing up at FedEx Field the last time you could actually go to games. And I would just think to myself, like, what are you, what are you watching? But more importantly, to your earlier point, we've been in a medium where, you know, the owners didn't understand this. They never understood this, where if you're not honest about the way you feel,

you'll have nobody that listens. I mean, look, I remember saying, we can't do Larry's show on long-form sports talk radio. No. Then no one will listen. Nobody will. But, yeah, if they had just won, look at Boston in the success of the Sports Talk Radio, stations in Boston for so long with all the winning teams. It would have, it would have benefited everybody had they been a winning team. Anyway, one of the big, one of the big misconceptions

is that bad is good in sports radio. Oh, the team stinks. I bet you got a lot of callers, a lot of angered callers. Yeah, it's good for the, the aggrieved minority that still gives a shit about the team, but otherwise it's bad for ratings. If a team is good, the ratings bonuses fall out of the sky. You take your hat off, turn it upside down, and collect them. I've seen it. I've known people in these markets, and that's what every radio host in sports wants. So back to Wisconsin, just for one last moment, and then I want to move on to some other things. Do you, you're doing, I guess, more of what we would call, I guess, a guy talk show. Yes.

But do you have to really know the teams? Like, do they know that you don't know Buck's history or Brewer's history? Or, you know, the power sweep. I mean, do you Lombardi it every once in a while? I mean, because really, you know this. To do it well, especially in a market that really cares about its teams or at least one of its teams, you can get sniffed out as a fraud if you don't really know that team. Well, I don't ever try to present as if I know something that I...

I know you wouldn't. Yeah. Right. So there's that. And I just, you know, I trim my sales to talking about what I know and, and not pretend like I know more than I do. But from a historical standpoint, you're right. I need to keep on digging and grinding and getting caught up to speed on the history of the team. Now, again, I bet in the market prior to the show for 24 years.

So it's not like I was completely foreign. But, you know, the bucks have been so bad and irrelevant for so long before Janus came along that it didn't really matter. They were a complete niche product all along and similar to the Brewers. Brewers had so many terrible, irrelevant years. And they've hooked into a kid who's hard to believe. And so he's kind of like the baseball version of Janus. You know, Christian Yellich was one of the great trades of all time. They stole him from the Marlins.

And the guy has re-signed to stay in Milwaukee. He likes it there because it's a great town to be in. You've got to get away for the winter, at least for a month. But it's a great town to be in. And so they have this great player to build around. You know, it takes more than that in baseball. I mean, my God, these players are unbelievably expensive. I have two more quick questions about that market.

Number one, do they care about Wisconsin? Basketball and football? Oh, yeah, badgers? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, it's a Packer State, Badger State, Brewer State, and now Bucks are in the mix as well because they're good. The other question is this. And actually, one of my boys asked me this not that long ago.

And we were talking about, you know, Green Bay and it being this small little thing. And your boy, your boys being your son. My sons. Not one of your boys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. One of my sons said, obviously, actually, there are two questions. Obviously, there aren't enough people in Green Bay where all the season ticket holders live in Green Bay.

And I said, well, they, the majority of them live in Milwaukee, correct? No. They're from all over the state. Okay. What about the players? Where do they live? In Green Bay. They will live. The ones that know they're going to be on the team for at least a few years,

they buy a house in Green Bay. Really? You can get a lot of house in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Sure you can. For a very modest price. And some stay after they're done playing. You know, we have a guy, John Coon, former fullback for the Packers. Right.

Lives in Green Bay. He does stuff with the team. Coon is, you'd love to meet him. He's very much like Cooley, but he's got a little bit better software. He's not quite as flaky, but really knows the game and is able to explain it well and in every person kind of a way. He's got better software. I don't know.

I think that's not a compliment. With that said, we would both say that maybe Coon's total IQ isn't anywhere in your Cooley's because Cooley's got a pretty high IQ. You know what? Both guys are exceptionally smart. And Cooley is just, let's just say Cooley is more eccentric. Yeah, well, he is that. All right, uh, some Washington football talk right after this word from one of our sponsors.

Save is with us. I've got a couple of Washington football related questions slash topics. I'll start with this because it's the most timely. How will Alex Smith be remembered? By me? Yeah, by you. As an absolute stud. and a guy, a tragic figure who would have really made some hay in this town if he had stayed healthy.

I will remember him with the utmost of admiration. Now his GQ article, a little bit of revisionist history, I think he's grappling with the reality. His career is likely over. I think he feels hurt by what he perceives to be a lack of loyalty or appreciation for the incredible journey he was on to come back and play. so I get all that and I let him vent on that but I will remember him fondly guys amazing what he did was amazing

if he didn't get hurt what do you think would have happened they would have been a regular playoff team really yeah I think there's no question he was he would have been as good as Kirk if not better in some ways and they would have made a ham

sandwich out of that team and they would have been you know a 10 win team maybe 11 and they would have been in the mix. I think, do you think that they would not have been able to put a decent team around? I think before this year in the comeback, I would 100% disagree with you because I thought that 2018 was a house of cards. He wasn't very good.

The offense wasn't very dynamic. They were six and four, not six and three, as everybody likes to remember it. They were going to lose that game to the Texans. three, we're talking 10 games in them. Yes. I think you wrap around to a whole other offseason, maybe you change coordinators. You had a weapon perhaps offensively. I believe Alex Smith would have gotten better.

You know, I had Jay Gruden on my podcast. I was great, by the way. I didn't mention that. Congratulations. I listened to it, and it was fantastic. So one of the things he said, I said to him, you know, he had no input. on the Alex Smith trade. He was completely in the dark. And I think one of the things I said to him was would it have gotten better? Because it wasn't overly impressive offensively. It almost seemed like it was a

bad fit. And, you know, his thing was, look, Alex Smith was a game manager. You know, that's what he was. He was going to check it down. It's funny because Jay remembers Kirk is being a guy that would take shots down the field. And our fan base has it, of course, mixed up per usual. But whatever. I'm not going to get into that. But, you know, he said Alex didn't turn the ball over. That was very important to winning. But, you know, and I said, well, would have gotten better. And he said, he said he was tough and he, I forget specifically his answer, but I do remember him saying, look, we got a game managing quarterback. That's what we got. That's why Andy let him go. That's why Andy tried, you know, drafted somebody and went after something much better. I guess, but what I was going to say, here's, here's what I think.

I think Alex Smith, healthy, after two full years, would have been hand-delivered Terry McLaren. Terry McLaren, peeling the lid off defenses, would have changed Alex Smith's tune as a game manager, significantly, in my opinion. I think Alex Smith would have been more than fine, and I think they would have been a playoff team. So what I was going to say is that this year changed my mind. a little bit. I give more credit to what Alex did in 2018, which, by the way, they ran the ball. It was the first time they had a running game in a long time with Adrian Peterson. They had a much improved defense better than it had been in several years. He wasn't turning the ball over. They got a break with the schedule. The teams they were beating weren't very good.

When they played the Packers, you know, basically Aaron Rogers could barely even walk that day. he was banged up and hurt. Yeah. But I think what I saw this year was just this thing that we never really understand because we don't know these people, but there really are intangibles. There's this leadership. There's this, you know, this brain. There's this ability to sort of, you know, make it work.

And, you know, in Kansas City, the bottom line is they didn't win. You know, they got to the, they won in the regular season, but they lost to Tennessee with a lot a talent that year that they got beaten the wild card game. So I think that the ceiling was like a wild card game, a nine-win season, but you're in the postseason. So I think after this year, I would go back and say that if Alex Smith hadn't gotten hurt, you would have had a competitive offense, a professional offense, a professionally competent offense, but you weren't going to compete with the upper echelon teams in the NFC. No, but at least do what I meant on the playoffs. Perhaps. And maybe you had a piece of

or two. Remember, they kept layering in defensive studs. Yeah, they did. And they would have done so as Alex would have stayed healthy and would have still been able to run and scoot and make backbreaking third and long scrambles to keep drives going because he was very mobile before he got hurt.

And you would have added an offensive weapon in Terry McLaren. Did Alex Smith have a year of Tyree Kill in Kansas City or no? Yeah, that was his, that was the year that Tyree Hill debuted, right? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I can't remember.

I mean, it was Kelsey and it was the backs. And I'm going to pull it up right now. But, yeah, I think Tyree Kill was on that team. So, yeah. So I think it would have worked out a lot better. I mean, I think this year was a real lesson. As soon as Haskins went out and, you know, even Kyle Allen came in. And then Alex after that, you're like, oh, shit, this offense actually is just fine under Scott Turner.

You know, there's a six-yard arrow route hit it. he's wide open, keep the chains moving. Haskins didn't see it, couldn't get to it, didn't do it. And so the offense was very scattershot. It was night and day when you saw guys who understood, here's where this guy's going to be, here's where that guy's going to be, throw it to them for God's sakes and stop making it so hard. Yeah, Hill Hunt and Kelsey all on that team.

Who do you want the quarterback to be? What path do you want them to take? They struck out on Stafford. We know that. They tried hard. there's been reports that they've expressed interest in Marriota in Goff, potentially Will and Darnold. What's the path you want them to take right now? There's no good options, in my opinion, and I wish there were.

I think there's a lot of reaches. I think there's reaches in the draft. Do you think that Trey Lance will be available naturally at 19? No. Then you're out of options. I don't think Mac Jones is the answer. I don't think Kyle Trask is the answer. So those are reaches if you want to take them at 19 naked,

which I wouldn't, not those two guys at least. I would take Lance if for some reason he fell. The Mormon Mansell's not going to be there. Everyone loves Zach Wilson, right? Yeah, they love. Fields is not going to drop that far. So you're kind of screwed in the draft. All right. Free agency.

Well, look, like you said, they missed on Stafford. They're not going to get to Sean. By the way, were you surprised that John McLean reported that the wolfskins did not even call Houston on Deshawn? Tommy and I talked about it on yesterday's podcast. Here was my reaction. Number one, I think the bigger, I think the lead on that information for people outside this market is that only five teams had reached out. And what that says to me is that because Stafford basically had a third of the league interested in him. So the fact that only five teams reached out means they don't think he's going to be traded or the price, and it will be if he is traded, it's going to be so exorbitant that it's not going to be worth it.

Yeah. So assuming he's out. By the way, I'd go for it. I would absolutely go for it and I'd give up anything to get him. Wait a minute. Yeah. Your firstborn son? God, you know what?

I really like him. I love all three of them, but I really like him. Which one of your boys could you part with for Deshawn Watson? Be honest, come on. Okay, let's think. For Deshawn Watson, I have to be assured that we're going to win a Super Bowl with Watson, but one of the three, no, I wouldn't do it. I would never do that.

All right, you never know. Let me throw out some, so you're saying three number ones at a warm body. I said two number ones, two number twos, and I would give up Chase Young for Deshawn Watson. I would. You're fucking crazy. Whatever. What the hell? Well, what are you talking?

You know, if they had Deshawn Watson, how many wins would they have had last year with Deshawn Watson and without Chase Young? I'd say 11. I'd say 11. You know what? You're acting like Chase Young is some kind of expendable addition. No, I'm not. Actually, you know what?

Let me preface it with A, he's my favorite player already on the team. B, I think he, I think he is the most talented and biggest, up side player we've had since Sean Taylor, but at a more important position as a pass rusher. With that said, Deshawn Watson is an elite quarterback. Well, look, how come they didn't win more games with Sean Watson this year? The franchise was ripping at the seams, ripping at the seams. All right. So they were a one-pump chump in the playoffs last year, or two years ago, when they were not a complete disaster. They won a game. They won a game. And, And yeah, they won a game.

They beat, they beat Buffalo. And then they lost to... And then Deshawn Watson looked like shit the next week. I mean, I like Deshawn Watson. I think he's really, really good. I wouldn't put great on him just yet, not even lowercase great. And if you give up two ones, two twos, and a stud in Chase Young, I say that's too much. Would I give up a first?

Would I give up two ones a second and say, Duran Payne? Now we're in the ballpark. It's still a tough deal for me to make, but I can't go more than that. I can't go four assets and the best defensive player we've got now and a guy who's going to be great for 10 years. Who would you give up Chase Young for right now, quarterbacks in the league if they were available, along with the two ones, the two-toes? Patrick Mahomes. Anybody else? Josh Allen.

Okay, so what we're disagreeing on is the player. I guess so. because and that's fine. I wouldn't give them up. Well, it depends on how many other picks. I mean, a straight up Chase Young for a top flight quarterback is an easy deal to make. It's how much do you want to wait it with extra ones? Well, yeah.

I mean, the bottom line is if Deshawn Watson's traded, which, by the way, I don't think he will be. And I wouldn't trade him if I were Houston. I would not trade him. Not after six months after he signed that deal, which, by the way, came after D'Andre Hopkins was traded. Oh, I know. I think that doesn't that concern you about Deshawn Watson? I think Deshawn Watson is way out over his skis on this. And I think he's full of shit to a large degree because like you said,

he took all their money when Bill O'Brien was rapidly tearing the team to shreds his shitty trades. It's a fair point. It's totally fair. And by the way, I think maybe there are some teams that will do a lot more due diligence on the player than maybe they would have felt they needed to do before he handled this. I don't know what the situation is in Houston. Keep in mind, if it's like it's been here, then you can't blame the player for wanting to get out. But then again, why did the player sign the deal?

Back to the whole situation. So in terms of guys you could get veterans, there's no good options. All these second tier guys, Jacoby Preset and Marcus Marriota and forget who else is in the mix, they're not difference makers. I think the toughest pill the team needs to swallow is that they've got to go into next year with Kyle Allen and Taylor Heineke and maybe a drafted guy in the third or fourth round and make a ham sandwich out of it next year and just wait a year until conditions change

because I just don't see anyone who's worth pursuing. Would you take Ryan Fitzpatrick for next year as the starter? It'd be a lot of fun. It'd be a lot of fun. But it's a short ride to. pretty much nowhere. I mean, the guy is who he is. He comes in. He drives your team around like a rental car, like he stole it, and it's fun as shit, and then he leaves it in the ditch. So you're with some, which is, all right, Alan Heineke, battle it out. Let's see what happens,

and we'll figure it out later. Which, by the way, let's be honest here, that's not the team's position. They have tried to upgrade. And according to reports, they're continuing to try to upgrade. Well, I mean, I don't blame them for trying to upgrade. I think they should. I'm saying when this is all said and done, combine, or excuse me, free agency, draft, et cetera. When that's all said and done with the dust settles, if they're not willing to accept that they may have to go, Kyle Allen, Taylor Heineke and make a ham sandwich, then I would be against that. I think they have to accept that might be their fate. Otherwise, they're going to pursue and reach for a guy. who's just not only is they not very good.

It has no upside. These guys that are available don't have upside for a reason. All right. Last one on the quarterback. Who starts opening day 2021? Kyle Allen. That's my guess too. Yeah.

And I'll okay with it. I kind of thought he was a bit overrated as a little shrimpy, McTryhard runaround guy. But again, I'll take it over Dwayne Hastings, who didn't know how to get the ball to guys who are wide open, or Alex Smith, bless his heart who's out there on one half-eaten chicken leg of a wing. One more subject with Zabe, and it is will our owner at some point in the near or distant future

not be the owner anymore, right after this word from one of our sponsors. Zave is doing Saturday mornings on 1067 the fan 9 to noon so you can listen to him then. Also, he's got his Zab cache. You can get that wherever you get a podcast, and he does a great job on that. All right, do you think that there's a chance that our favorite football team will have a new owner at some point, whether it's near future or, let's just say, three to five years from now? It's the biggest dream, many of us who are tired of this current ownership group have ever had, and I'm trying to temper myself and reduce my expectations so that I am not heartbroken. I think there's a chance. I think it's real.

I think Snyder has been realizing how deep the water he is in. I guess today the team announced that the cheerleading squad is no longer. It's a co-ed dance squad. Co-ed dance squad, which is fantastic. Of course, there's going to be no, it's like in spinal tap that Nigel Tuffman will ask. So can I ask a practical question? Are we doing Stonehenge tonight? And they snap at them.

No, we're not fucking doing Stonehenge tonight. So we just had a cheerleading team that was used. almost as an escort service by team officials are we still going to have one? No, we're not going to fucking have one. So yeah, Snyder is in deep water and I think he knows it

and he's done everything he can to keep the life raft to float. But are the odds better than 50-50? I wouldn't even go that far. It's 49% and lower. I think these owners, Kevin, they are very wary, even though Richardson got whacked.

They're very wary of starting to turn inward on their own guys because there's a lot of owners with a lot of dirty laundry that some of which we know about, Ursay with his dead girlfriend in the suitcase of pills, Ziggy Wolf in his totally shady business dealings in Minnesota, and the list goes on and on.

So I think it's less than 50-50, but man, I got to hope. I'll take anybody. Everyone says, you know, I say Bezos, and they go, we don't know how good he would be. Like, I've heard rumors about him. And I'm like, I don't care.

Anybody, but Snyder. It can't be worse. Let's try something different. There is no doubt it can't be worse. Like, I'm a big, all right, you want to shoot him? Tell me what the solution is. In this particular situation, any solution would be better. By the record, I'm not talking about shooting.

I understand that. I agree with you. I also think we are living in a very interesting time and that it would take perhaps less in this moment in time for 31 owners and the commissioner to get upset and perhaps move on him. But I also think there's something else working here. They can't stand him.

Nobody likes him. I mean, forget about the fact. Yeah, he has no... Nobody likes him. The commissioner can't stand him. And this is an important market for the team, and he's embarrassed them. Okay. Well, then that makes me more hopeful.

I always thought that for whatever reason, he wasn't as disdained among the millionaires. Woody Johnson apparently is the only one. You know, Jerry tolerates him. But, you know, people tolerate Jerry, too. That's true. He's not considered to be certainly any sort of influencer among owners. And this market, he's embarrassed the league. And it's a very important market.

And by the way, Zabe, if he does sell it or if he was forced to sell it, it's such a lucrative opportunity. This team in this market. That's why the franchise was evaluated at whatever it was in Forbes. People said, how can that be? The team's got a shitty stadium. They had to flush their historic name. They haven't won anything. And I say, no, no, no.

Valuation is based on what it would be with an owner who knew what the fuck. he was doing in a market of this size resources everything and that's why it's a $3.4 billion toy that I would love to see somebody else own I think the the investigation and your boy Tommy wrote about this in the examiner the uh the examiner that is great sorry sorry excuse me the times yeah you said Tommy right yeah yeah Tommy wrote about it times might as well be the examiner go ahead I'm so sorry. The Washington Times. And the whole, the Beth Wilkinson investigation is the big bullet that Snyder has to avoid. But the other thing that's lurking is Snyder has no friends and no juice in the DMV area.

None. So he's having a hell of a time getting a stadium built. Who could get a stadium built, not just with his money, but with his connections? Yeah, Mr. Bezos. So in other words, would they call him Mr. or Jeff? Whatever he wants me to call him. Super villain Bezos with his shaved head and his muscles and his new hot young girlfriend. Do you find that as ridiculous as I do?

That people who are older than him refer to him and address him as Mr. Snyder? I think that's a sign of great insecurity for a guy who's worth that much money. But that's just how people roll. So yeah. So I think I think there's a chance. I'm hopeful, but I'm not going to get my hopes totally up. And I'd take anybody, including Bezos, because he at least get us a stadium. That's a good stadium where it needs to be, not some piece of shit that repeats the mistake of RAL John and FedEx Field somewhere on the fringes of the market.

Because the stadium's going to be with us for 30 years. So it's got to be right. It's got to be the right size. It's got to be right design. And it's got to be in the right place. Otherwise, no one's going to want to go to it, just like FedEx. And that affects your fandom, you know, for year after year, for a year. So it's crucially important.

And Snyder doesn't have the juice to get it done. Otherwise, he would have already had. How great, though, and Tommy and I talk about it all the time. And I do think that the football operation seems to be trucking along fairly well. But how about the part of the story, the smear campaign against Snyder, which took place the few days prior to that first post story, with Dwight Sharr and now Bruce Allen. A.2. Bruce A. A.

Bruce of course I mean he's course Bruce Allen is at the root of it this is why he acted like there is no way he'd ever get fired we were like he's got to have photos well he didn't have photos maybe but he's got a lot of tails to tell and obviously Bruce Allen being so arrogant thinks that he was fired unjustly so why not engage in a smear campaign against Dan Snyder doesn't shock me in the least but man it is juicy Tommy suggested and I did several months ago with the smear campaign the Jeffrey Epstein ties, the sex traffing, all of it, which clearly, I think we all agree was inaccurate, misinformation. Right. Is there any way that if this stuff really comes out and we find out that there was this elaborate scheme to totally defame him, that he could be somehow a sympathetic figure in a moment anyway? I don't know if he'd be sympathetic, but he may be emboldened.

He may be empowered. Oh, I think that's why he's digging in his heels right now, even more. Well, that, he doesn't want to lose the team. I mean, I've had some people that aren't really sports fans say, you know, why would a guy like Snyder Care? He's bought the team for under a billion that's worth three times that. Just go ahead and sell it and be done with all the headaches. And I'm like, and then what is he? And they go, what do you mean?

I go, what is he? Well, he's rich. And I go, yeah, he's a rich asshole with a boat that nobody knows, nobody cares about, no standing, no social circus. No Tom Cruise, no George Clooney, no Matt. McConaughey. Exactly. Last one. Ron Rivera after one year. Believe her or not? He turned it around on me. I was shaking to the core early on. He's taking knees down only two scores in the final six minutes of the game saying I don't want to get anybody hurt.

But I'm more bought in now. He definitely held it together throughout the year. Tremendous personal story and courage to fight through his cancer treatments to coach like he did. But I'm also not delusional. You know, he was what he was in Carolina. You talk to anybody, which I'm sure you have, who's covered the Panthers under him. And there are underwhelming moments to the Ron Rivera experience. But he's as good as we're going to get for some time.

And let's wish him the best. I just hope that Snyder continues to be occupied with other stuff. I think part of the reason this year ended up so well was that Snyder is literally fighting for his own franchise and his own life as an owner that he didn't have time to start meddling around. But trust me, if he gets free to. up from that other stuff, I wouldn't doubt it if he went back to his old ways. Yeah, and it worries me that if they actually started to have some success without him

or with the perception of him being, you know, removed, he may not like that and therefore may want to get in and make a big move on, say, a draft day or draft night. Who knows? I mean, look, we'd be naive to think it's not possible that he could ruin it again if we have the right man. You know, I think we had the right guy and certainly the right staff with old coach Shanahan. And we clearly had that with Marty for a year. And, you know, he ruined those, you know, potential paths as well. All right.

Saturday mornings on 1067 the fan, Zab's doing the Saturday morning show 9 to noon. So tune in for that. Listen to his Zab cast. More importantly, can I propose something here? Yes. I would like to propose a on. ongoing home and home between you and I, sort of like Alabama and Ohio State, once a month.

That's not too often. Home and home. You play me at my place on the podcast. I'll play you at your place. Done. What do you say? You know, I think we talked about this once before. You do this a lot.

You know, you blew me off. No, that's not true at all. That is not true at all. You do this a lot in Scott and Sali and. everybody that's ever been a part of being a friend of yours or working with you would say, you know, Zabe, you know, is a creative and he has a lot of ideas. He's an ideas guy. But I'm not follow through guy.

And a lot of times those ideas are not followed through on. I said in the most emphatic way possible, we should be doing stuff together with your podcast and mine. And you were like, yeah, yeah. And then nothing. No, no, no. That's not exactly the way it worked. Not exactly the way it worked. Fine.

If I get 20 emails saying I would love a home and home series, Zabe and Sheehan, your pod, my pod, a month, then we're going to do it. If we're going to really do this, let's do something that's really practical. Because the, first of all, well, you've already, you've already backed out of the, what happened to maybe Zabe coming on the radio show, you know, once a week for a quick hit. I said, I'm all in on that. I would love that. told your program director, Chris Kynard, I'm willing to do it, but they're trying to sell it.

I guess they haven't sold it yet. I will still do it. I'll come on for free. I'll be on your radio show for free, not for an hour. But on the podcast, of course, on the podcast, I absolutely accept your offer for a home and home. There you. Once every two weeks, you on mine, mine on you, and we just keep touch because, seriously, not to be gay or anything. it's nothing wrong with being gay. You do a great job of covering the team. You're more knowledgeable than anyone in the market about the team historically going back a long time. That's enough. That's enough. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Home and home, we will work it out, and I'll talk to you. I appreciate this. Sounds good. All right. Back tomorrow with Tommy. See you, everybody.