The Kevin Sheehan Show - An Olympic Mistake + Santana Moss

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

Kevin opened with a quick recap of Game 2 of the NBA Finals, the Nats' weekend, Jayden Daniels' first pitch at Nats Park, and thoughts on Caitlin Clark's exclusion from the Women's USA Olympic Basketball team. Santana Moss jumped on to talk all things Commanders. USA Today's Christine Brennan was a guest in the final segment of the show to discuss her days covering the Skins for the Washington Post and her column on Caitlin Clark. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Wind Donation. Give them a call at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name for a free in-home estimate.

Two guests on the show today. Santana Moss is going to be on with us in the next segment. We'll talk to Santana about what he has seen up close during OTAs. during rookie minicamp. The team's regular mini camp starts tomorrow. Scheduled for Tuesday through Thursday. We'll have a lot of sound from that this week on the show. But Santana will share with us what he has seen specifically from Jaden Daniels and what he is hearing.

So Santana Moss up next. Christine Brennan will join us on the show today. It's been a while since Christine has been on the show. In fact, I don't think I've ever had her on. on the podcast. Used to have her on the radio show all the time. Christine wrote a story for her outlet USA Today yesterday about Caitlin Clark not being named to the women's USA Olympic team.

We'll talk to Christine about that in the final segment of the show today. NBA Finals game two goes to Boston by seven. here's all you need to know about this game. And maybe about this series. The Celtics were one of the best three-point shooting teams in the regular season, in the postseason, and last night from behind the arc, they went 10 for 39. My God, Tommy, I hope he didn't watch the game last night because he'll come in here tomorrow saying, all they do is shoot threes and they don't even make them.

And both teams last night, it was ugly. I mean, Dallas was 6 of 26, Boston 10 of 39. So a combined 16 of 65 from the three-point line in the game. But Boston 10 of 39, and they still won the game by seven points. I mean, in the game, Jason Tatum was six of 22. He was one of seven from behind the arc, and Boston still won the game by seven points. So what's really obvious about the first two games of this series? And things change in NBA playoff series.

We see that as NBA fans all the time. I mean, two games at home, and then the next two look totally different. and you're like, oh my God, I didn't see that coming. And, you know, the old adage is that a series doesn't really begin until the road team wins a game. Well, Dallas did not take either one of the first two games in Boston. The reasons are pretty obvious. Number one, they're just not as good of a team as Boston. Boston has a better team.

Before the series started, I said, I would take Luke. and Kyrie as my top two players over Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. But I would take Boston's next five to six players, three through eight as an example, because I just felt like it was a better supporting cast. And that's been proven here in the first two games. You know, Porzingis was kind of the star of game one, certainly the first half of game one, not Jason Tatum or Jailen Brown. And last night it was Drew Holiday, who was the absolute star of the game for Boston. So in neither one of these first two games, although you could make the case that Jalen Brown was really the best player and the most impactful player in game one. But poor Zingis, the point

being is he had such a significant contribution off the bench in that game in the first quarter and in the first half in particular. But in the first two games, you've had two guys not in your top two that you could argue were the stars of the game in wins for your team. Boston's loaded, man. They won 64 regular season games. They had an easy time in the Eastern Conference because Jimmy Butler got hurt. And then it was Donovan Mitchell who got banged up in the Cleveland Series. And Tyrese Halliburton missed a couple of games in the Indiana series.

So they kind of skated through the Eastern Conference. They've lost just two playoff games right now. They're 14 and 2 in the postseason. And they go to Dallas Wednesday night. We'll see whether or not Luca and Kyrie Irving can turn it around. So, you know, the reasons for up to nothing are primarily for me. Boston's just a better team, overall team. But there are a couple of other reasons.

And I point at Dallas for some of those other reasons. Kyrie Irving has to be better. He has been terrible in this series so far. 13 of 37 from the floor for Kyrie Irving. Zero for eight from behind the arc for Kyrie Irving in this series so far. He has been off to say the least, and it's really looked not promising. And it's looked like he's a guy playing on the road in a hostile environment, which, you know, he caused. And he even said something stupid the other day about game one.

He thought it would be louder in there. So they got louder when he got the ball. And it was a bit of an intimidating environment for him. And, you know, somebody told me this morning that he's O for his last 12 against the Celtics. There is just something about him in that building. He doesn't seem like himself. I mean, he's been great during these playoffs, but he's got, you know, a shooting stretch right now,

no matter who's guarding him, you know, even when they get the switches that you would think would be advantageous, you know, getting a Peyton Pritchard on him or getting poor Zingis on him, a big. He has not looked comfortable. He's got 14 points a game he's averaging in this series, 35% shooting from the floor, and he is 0 for 8 from behind. the arc. As a comparison against Minnesota in the Western Conference Finals, he averaged 27 a game,

shot nearly 50% from the floor, and 37.5% from behind the arc. He had a game in game 5 in Minnesota where he went for 36 and Luca went for 36. In game three of that series, he went for 33, and Luca went for 33. He just has not given them a Kyrie Irving type of performance. So that is another reason that they are down to nothing. He has got to play better. And I thought Drew Holiday just owned him last night. I mean, Drew Holiday, you could make the case in the first two games here. If the finals were to end or ended last night, he'd be the MVP. He or Jalen Brown. He's been much better than Kyrie Irving. By the way, Drew Holiday, 38 points, zero turnovers in two games, not to mention the shooting percentage. He's,

He had his first nine last night, with Boston missing as much as they were from the perimeter. He went to the rack, and he was nine for his first nine all inside the pain. He had 11 rebounds. He had three assists. He had a block. He had a steel. You know, he's a champion. He was on a championship team in Milwaukee, and this is a big part of what's been missing is a Drew Holiday.

He's kind of like a younger, better version of Marcus Smart, you know, super high IQ, super tough, competitive. He has been outstanding. Dallas has to stop turning the ball over. They've got to make free throws. They've missed 15 free throws in the first two games. They've turned it over 26 times in the first two games. You're not going to beat a team like Boston handling the ball so poorly. By the way, last night, Luca had eight of the turnovers. Now, he's handling the ball a lot, but man, some of the defense and some of the pressure defense really getting to him. You know, you can see that. He had 32, 11 and 11 last night, and I said on Friday, you know, there's no chance Dallas has if he ends up with one assist like he did in game one.

He had 11 assists last night. Unfortunately, he had eight turnovers too, and he missed four free throws. I mean, cut the turnovers in half, make two more free throws, and they probably win the game. It was an odd game in that Boston was up three at halftime, and it felt like they shouldn't have been up three at half time. Porzingis seemed to get banged up again. Shocker on that one. A couple real quickly, a couple of more thoughts on this series.

Number one, I mentioned Kyrie, but Dallas isn't getting it from any of the supporting cast at this point. PJ Washington, Josh Green. and Maxi Kleber are like a combined two for 14 from behind the arc in this series. How about this? In this series through two games, Dallas is 10 for 42 from behind the arc. Luke is 8 for 21. That makes the rest of the team two for 21. They were getting the supporting cast players. Derek Jones Jr., PJ Washington, Daniel Gafford, Washington played all right in game one. to really contribute, and they're not in this series.

The turnovers are bad. I don't get why they can't handle pressure. Something that I've talked about in the past as it relates to the NBA. I've talked to guys like Gary about this before, Mark Turgeon about this before. I don't understand at the NBA level why teams don't pressure more full court or at least three-quarter court. when they change that rule several years ago now, 10 plus years ago,

where it's eight seconds to get the ball across half court, not 10. The fact that you can drop into a zone in the NBA, you know, there is a defensive three-second rule, so it's not a true college, high school youth zone where you can just pack it in and stay in the paint. But I'm surprised that more teams don't pressure or at least surprise pressure every once in a moment. while. I bet it would be worth one to two turnovers a game at least. Teams don't practice

against full court pressure. It would appear. There was a key stretch last night at 97 to 89 and Luca gets pressured full court by Drew Holiday. They were not prepared for it. He throws it to PJ Washington, who throws it back to Luca, throws it back to Washington. It gets picked by Derek White. I mean, I've seen teams handle full court, three-quarter court pressure so poorly in the NBA. you know, especially with a 24-second shot clock, if you made a team consistently use much of the eight seconds to get the ball across half court, then you dropped into some sort of, you know, zone and trapped a little bit for, you know, to try to make it harder for them to get something early.

I don't know, Boston surprised them with it last night. It worked at a key juncture in the game, and Holiday hit a three off that turnover. The call at 103 to 98 where PJ Washington had the breakaway, and Jalen Brown and Derek White both got a piece of it. There's no doubt Jalen Brown pushed. I'm sure in the two-minute report that comes out today, we'll read more about how they blew that call. I'll tell you one thing.

I did not see it in real time. It was such a bang, bang play. I can see why the referees missed it there. But, you know, it was a push. And it would have, you know, potentially if PJ Washington knocks down both free throws, it would have gotten it to a three-point lead. They would have been, at that point, Dallas on an 11-zip run. But they didn't.

And Boston wins 105-98. One last thing on this game, it's a pet peeve. I've nitpicked this one a few times through the playoffs and through the college season even. I just don't understand this trend of basically tapping out with a lot of time left in the game. Last night, 105.98, 27 seconds left when Luca missed a three and they never fouled. The clock ran out. They didn't foul Boston and then they got the ball back and didn't take a shot.

So basically 26 and a half seconds ticked off the clock. You're down seven. I know it would be a miracle comeback. Actually down seven with 26 seconds to go and the ability to advance the ball in the NBA. we've seen more impossible situations overcome. I understand what the odds are. They're not good. It's the NBA finals. Are you kidding me? Extend the game.

Now, last night, I was kind of happy to a certain degree. I actually had Boston like I did in game one. I had them last night laying seven. I got a bad number. I was, anyway, I had to call. I had to put it in right before Tip, and I didn't have time to really go for the best number. Played golf.

I was with people and whatever. But if you had Dallas, so I pushed, if you had Dallas plus six and a half last night, you had to be pulling your hair out. You kidding me? You're not going to foul? I don't get it. We've seen that trend in the NBA for a few years now.

We've seen it actually into college now. You kidding me? I mean, with the free throw shooting, now Boston was 19 to 20 last night. But, you know, I would know, never, ever tap out with 26 and a half seconds to go in game two of the NBA finals, down seven. It's absurd. The breaking news this afternoon in the world of basketball is that Danny Hurley is staying at Yukon. According to Adrian Wojnerowski at ESPN, he turned down a six-year

$70 million offer and he's going to stay at Yukon. We talked about this on Friday show. I had John Fanta on the show late last week talking about this. And I just had a gut feel that he was going to stay at Yukon. I know some of you did as well, but most people thought that this was going to happen, that he was going to take the Lakers job. He's just a college coach to me so much more than he is a pro coach, and he's so much more of an East Coast guy than he is a Southern California guy. So the Lakers go back to the drawing board.

I guess we'll start hearing J.J. Reddick's name again. And then Yukon will try to win a third straight title, which would be the first time that's happened since John Wooden coached at UCLA. How about the Nats this weekend? Three straight against the Braves at Nats Park. They lost the first game of their four game set with L. Atlanta on Thursday night. But the Nats are now six and two against the Braves this year because they took three out of four in Atlanta a few weeks ago. And after that rough series with the Mets

last week at home, they're back to within five games of 500. They're only a game and a half out in the National League wild card race. Look, the National League right now super top heavy and then a lot of mediocrity, if not bad teams. Philly's got the best overall record in the National League, best overall record in baseball right now, followed by the Dodgers in the National League. And then you've got the Brewers and the Braves. After that, I mean, it will be a wild race for two wild card spots in the wild card race right now in the National League. Basically, after the Braves, the Padres are right now the holder of the second wildcard spot in the National League. They're a game under 500. And then four teams are tied for the third wild card

spot with records that are two games under 500. The Giants, Reds, Cubs, and Cardinals. And then the Pirates are three games under 500 and a half game out. And Arizona and Washington and Washington, or four and five games, respectively under 500, a game and a game and a half out. Yeah, I mean, a ton of mediocre teams right now in the National League. In the race for not one, but maybe two of the three wildcard spots will be contended by maybe a lot of teams hovering right around, if not below 500. We'll see. Long way to go. But, you know, different in the American League where the top two wildcard teams right now in the American League are the Orioles at 20 games over 500, the Royals at 12 games over 500, and then the twins who are three games over 500.

Yes, I did see the Jaden Daniels first pitch at the Nats Braves game yesterday. Not live. I wasn't watching the game live, but I saw. saw the video of it. And it was not, you know, it wasn't that attractive. I'll concede that. It was outside. It was short. It was in the dirt.

But I've seen a lot worse. I mean, John Wall's first pitch at a Nats game back in 2012, 2012, 2013, whatever year that was, is one of the worst of all time. Just, you know, go to YouTube. in search John Wall first pitch. I mean, that was not what Jaden did yesterday at all. I mean, there had been a ton that had been a lot worse. But it was more of kind of a compact in-the-pocket, short, you know, quick release kind of of a pitch.

There was no wind-up there. No wind-up at all. So one more thing that I wanted to talk about here in the open to the show. we will get to Santana Moss and to Christine Brennan. But the one thing is Caitlin Clark, specifically Caitlin Clark's exclusion from the USA Women's Olympic Basketball team, to which, by the way, Christine Brennan in her column in USA Today, finished up the column with the following paragraph, quote, I've seen some bad team and athlete selection decisions in the 40 years I've covered the Olympics,

but this is the worst by far. Then again, we probably shouldn't be surprised, as we've known for years. The last amateurs left in the Olympic Games are the people running them, closed quote. You'll hear what Christine Brennan thinks about the decision not to include Caitlin Clark on the USA Women's Basketball Team. I promise you, I am pretty sure after reading her column after the radio show this morning, I wish I had read it before because it was so good. but they are shared opinions.

And I'll get to mine here in a moment. Real quickly, though, Friday night, the Caitlin Clark-Indiana fever team was in town to face the Washington Mystics at Capital One Arena. A sold-out crowd of 20,333 were in attendance in Chinatown. It was the largest WNBA crowd in 17 years, and it was the first ever $1 million-plus live gate for the Mystics as an organization. The game sold out in 30 minutes when it was announced that it would be moved from the Mystics home in southeast to Capital One Arena.

It's the same thing that's happened everywhere Caitlin Clark's gone. She is the biggest draw in the sport. As I've said, for weeks, if not months, she is doing for women's basketball, what Tiger Woods did. for golf. The incremental or the additive number of interested viewers and attendees is comparable to the Tiger Woods effect in the late 90s. By the way, the other night, she was incredible in the game. She had arguably the best game of her very young 12-game WNBA professional career. She had 30 points, 7-3s, a few of them, just typical Caitlin Clark. bombs. She had eight rebounds, six assists, four steals as well. You know, one of the narratives

about her early career here in the WNBA during her rookie season is that, yeah, she's just not, you know, cut for this. She's just not playing very well. It's just not the same player. And it's not the exact same player from Iowa. And physically, she has been, you know, she has certainly drawn the attention of defenses throughout the league. And as a physical specimen, she's not quite there yet. She's probably a couple of years away from having that physical maturity to sort of match some of the grown women in the league. But for those of you that actually are buying in to some of those that have said,

yeah, she's not really having much of, you know, a start to her rookie season. She's 14th in scoring. She's fourth in the league in assists. She's tied for fourth in three-pointers made. She's seventh in the league in free-throw shooting percentage. She set the rookie record Friday night for seven-threes with her seven-threes in the game against Washington. Her 200 points and 75 assists are the most through a rookie's first 12 games in WNBA history.

Yes, she has struggled at times with bigger, more physical, more athletic players. But she is the frontrunner easily for rookie of the year in the league. Her rookie season so far has been historic by some measures. She's clearly proven that as a shooter and a passer, she more than belongs. I mean, she's fourth in the league and assists. She's fourth in three-pointers made. You know, she is a creator.

She's a shooter. She's a passer. And I would imagine that the best is yet to come. But they did not see fit to include her on the USA women's basketball roster. And look, based on merit, if this were what I were, if I were using merit as the only measurement for the 12 players on the team, I'm sure I would come to the conclusion that they did, that she's not one of the best 12 players.

in the U.S. right now, you know, in the WNBA. On merit, she probably doesn't deserve a spot on the team. But again, let me be clear. It's not like she's so far off. And in international play, where three-point shooting is huge in teams that are much inferior to the U.S. women's team, you know, sit back and pack in zones and say, you know, our best shot is hoping you miss shots.

She's probably perfect for the actual, style of play. Remember, we've had that in USA men's basketball. In 2004, when they won bronze and finished third, it was like there weren't enough shooters on the team. So there was more of an emphasis to add shooters. But anyway, on pure merit, okay, if that's what this conversation's about, probably doesn't deserve a spot on the team. But my opinion is deserving. Doesn't have anything to do with this. This is business. She is the best. biggest draw in sports right now and women's basketball and this Olympic team is, I think, a marketing platform for the business of the WNBA, which as a business has not been a performer.

It's been fledgling since its inception, funded, kept solvent at times by the NBA. And we've talked about this before, and I'm not going to bore you with the details, but this is a moment that businesses dream of. You know, it is lightning in a bottle, Caitlin Clark. People who didn't know anything about women's basketball have paid attention to it. She's selling out arenas everywhere she goes. The ratings are through the roof compared to what they used to be. You know, we saw the crowd the other night. We saw the crowd at Xfinity Center in College Park when Iowa came to town. You couldn't get a ticket. I mean, the toughest ticket in town over the last couple of years Friday night at Capital One Arena and when Iowa played Maryland at Xfinity Center.

When you're barely hanging on for years as a business, it can't be about merit. It's got to be a grown-up conversation. I know how players and competitors feel. And look, there's also something going on here with whether it's competitive jealousy or just flat-out jealousy. who knows what it is, but the grownups that have, you know, a stake in the WNBA and in women's basketball had to step in and say, whoa, other sports do this all the time. All right, other sports, it's not always about a meritocracy. I mean, golf allows exemptions in their tournaments all the time.

Tennis tournaments allow exemptions all the time. for one reason typically more than anything else. And that's because that particular player is going to draw more people to the tournament. If she doesn't want to play, if the grind of her college season, which blended right into the WNBA draft and then the WNBA season, she has not had a break in forever, if she doesn't want to play, you know, if the grind of the last several months requires a lot of, a breather for her. That's one thing, but you know what I would then do? I'd pay her to play. If it were my decision, I'd say, whatever you need, we are going to make it happen. Because if she's on this team, imagine, imagine the eyeballs on women's Olympic basketball in Paris. I can't tell you about one women's Olympic basketball game. They've won seven.

straight golds, they've been a dominant power, nobody's cared. Just like the league that they play in. Nobody has cared. They care now. I can't imagine somebody at NBC didn't say, excuse me? Are you guys insane? Think about how many people are going to watch? Think about all the jerseys that will be sold. Oh, but, you know, if we put her on the team, she's not going to get much time and then people are going to be upset. Even better, controversy cells. If she's on the team and people are tuned in, they're like, oh, she should be in the game now. You're up 15. Put her in.

And you don't put her in. Or if you struggle shooting against, you know, the Netherlands in a game and you win by four, should have put her in. She would have bombed him right out of that zone. own. Controversy would be great. The Kennedy Carter thing from, you know, the cheap shot from last week. I mean, this is the thing that people are talking about. People are talking about Caitlin Clark. Bless your heart, Angel Reese and Cameron Brinker, any of the other players. That's not why people are watching. You're not why people are watching. We've discussed all the reasons, but it's lightning in a bottle. And it's,

insanely stupid not to put her on this Olympic team. Team USA actually has a mission statement, which includes the following, quote, promoting, growing, and elevating the game at all levels, closed quote, as in part of the mission is to promote, grow, and elevate the game at all levels. That's part of the mission statement. Christine Brennan wrote about this in column today, to which she followed up, seems to be Caitlin Clark's job description these days. Yeah, like, you know, for the players and the coaches and people who just wanted this based on merit and didn't think she should be on the team, for whatever the reasons were, the higher-ups, the grown-ups should have said, yes, sorry, but this is in the mission statement.

This is a very important part of our mission statement to promote, grow, and elevate the game at all levels, and there's nobody in the history of our sport that has promoted, grown, and elevated the game at all levels like she has. So you're going to have to pick one of the 12 and give them the bad news, that the person that has been more responsible for promoting, growing, and elevating the game at all levels is going to be on the team. I mean, as if, you know, just common sense wouldn't dictate that answer. At least they could justify it by pointing to the mission statement. One other thing real quickly, several people have sort of compared this to those that sort of agree with me. It's like, look, Christian Leitner was on the 92 Dream Team.

You know, he wasn't one of the best 12 players on the planet at that point. There was a rule that dictated that one college player be on that team. And Christian Leitner was the best college player at the time and a multi-time national champion. And by the way, a big brand, you know, at that point. But the NBA didn't need Christian Leitner. Men's basketball didn't need Christian Leitner to raise awareness and increase exposure. They had magic on the team. They had Jordan on the team.

They had Burt on the team. They had Drexler on the team. The team was loaded with superstars. Now, Christian Leitner was a pretty big brand. Don't get me wrong. But they didn't need Christian Leitner. This USA Women's Basketball team, Women's basketball needs Caitlin Clark every chance they get to include her.

It's incredibly short-sighted. Santana Moss next, Christine Brennan after that, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Down to the final four in the NBA playoffs, guys. It's Minnesota and Dallas out west, Indiana, and Boston in the east. I've got a way that will make watching these games more exciting. the prize picks app today. It is the place to go for daily fantasy sports. It's an easy and exciting way to play DFS.

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chance to save. 866.9 Nation. or windownation.com. All right, jumping on with me right now, the great number 89, Santana Moss, who joins us right now. By the way, I made a note the last time you were on with me because I forgot to ask you about something and I wanted to ask you about it.

And it was when Tyree Kill said on a podcast, I think it was RG3's podcast, that you were one of his top five all-time receivers. He had Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Antonio Brown, T.O. and Santana Moss. You did hear about that, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I heard about it. I heard about it. So how did it make you feel coming from one of the best receivers in this generation of really good receivers?

You know what? I really didn't have no, I wasn't surprised or sharp. or none of what everybody in the social media world was because, you know, folks get caught up into all this grade and scale and thinking that just because this person has more numbers or this because this person was said or you see more of his highlight that he's considered to be just a great. I mean, I feel like when you played at a high level, as I did, regardless if I have their rights numbers or a little under A.B.'s number, if I play at a high level and I raised eyebrows of a young Tyree

Hill to want to play this game, then I would recognize me too. So I think that's what he did. He just recognized a guy that basically helped him, you know, mold his stuff into being the guy that he felt that I was. And I think right now he's exceeding all those guys that he probably thought about other than or probably but Jerry Rice. But no, I was thrilled that he gave me that, I guess you can say that praise. But at the same time, I understand where he's coming from,

But when guys ask me, I bring up guys like, you know, the Dupor Brothers and, you know, those guys who basically I kind of looked at or idolized that made me say, okay, I can play this game because those guys look like me. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, everybody, like watching you guys from afar for as long as I have, there's always, you know, a superstar player in today's game that will have a list and there will be a player that people will say, Well, that's interesting. Yeah. But you know, but you actually, I think, would probably be on a lot of people's lists because, A, you were super explosive. You were super exciting.

By the way, you returned punts at a high level when you were at the jets and occasionally here. But also you were a smaller receiver, which Tariq Hill is. Are there other players that we know of that have experienced? express the same thing about you? Well, I watched something, I'm not sure what it was. It was on Devante Adam. Someone sent me a little clip of him talking about,

who was this inspiration growing up when it came to Rout running? And he acknowledged that I was one of the guys that he looked at it when it came to Rout Run. So that's what I'm saying. That's the thing about this league. It's so many guys that do what we do. And just because you like, that guy, don't mean I have to like that guy. And you got to look at it like this, man. And when I was young, you know, when I asked the guys of, you know, who was the guys who I was looking up to, what's the numbers?

What's the criteria to be one of the best receivers? And I remember the guy, I think his name was John Jefferson. He was one of our guys that was basically there as a player personnel guy for the Redskins. But I remember him playing in San Diego back in those days with S. Well and Winslow Senior. and he's told me, Tanner, when you get to 10,000, that's considered those Hall of Fame numbers. And I never knew nothing like that because I wasn't a big football head when it came to statistics. I didn't care about that part of the football game.

I cared because I cared about football because it was something that I said I want to do and I feel like God gave me to give to do it. I never looked at the accolades. I never looked at the numbers of this guy, that guy. If a guy played well enough for me, for me to watch them and raise my eyebrows, then I was going to be locked in with that guy whether he had Jerry Wright's numbers or not. So when I heard the 10,000 yards criteria for the top receivers, that was my point. I said, I'm aiming to go there.

I'm aiming to be one of those players. And, you know, fortunately, I got there with 15 different quarterback. So I'm pleased, man, for my numbers, I'm pleased to be able to do what I did with the kind of guys I had to go out there and play with. because I feel like everybody is not lucky or fortunate to have the numbers that I had, especially being one of the guys that had to pay the way for a lot of guys. Because you think about it, before me and Steve Smith came into the game, they were saying that guys, my size couldn't be a first-round draft shake. And guys, my size, couldn't be an outside receiver.

And I came in as a guy that played in the inside and the outside in college and didn't see the slot into my 10th year and the league. So I came in and exceeded everything these guys thought of me. look, I can pat myself on the back every now and then, but I'm glad Tari Hill did for me. He did, and you did reach 10,000 career yards as a receiver. You want to know, this is an interesting thing about sort of the historical conversation about the greatest players of all time by position. Wide receiver, I think, I mean, I've said this before, and I'm not going to go through the whole list right now, but I think it's the one position more than any other where everybody believes the same person

is the greatest that's ever lived, and that's Jerry Rice. You know, whereas every other position has a debate, wide receiver, it's Jerry Rice, and then we can start the conversation after Jerry Rice about who's number two. Do you agree with that? I absolutely agree, and it's so crazy. I was just telling someone, this is how dreams are made, and it's crazy how things happen in life. But growing up, I was a San Francisco 49er fan because of Jerry Wright

and because of Joe Montana. You know, when they ask me nowadays, who's my favorite quarterback? I always acknowledge Joe Montana. That's the guy who I watch, play so well with one of my favorite wire receivers. As I got older, you realize, hey, I'm not going to have that kind of body type. I'm not going to have that kind of height. So you have to find other guys that, you know, play the same position that makes you love this game the way you do. And I still was a big fan of Jerry, but I had to look and find out those smaller guys as the Andre Rives and other guys who was playing the high level as a number one receiver and say, okay, this guy's not that much taller in me.

Or that guy has to bite type like me. So then I have to beat him or a little better than him. But Gary Rice is the guy. He's the Michael Jordan of our league. And it's crazy that I just found, like I said, I'm not big on accolades. I'm not big on staff. I don't know the history that much. I just know different teams and people I follow.

I was sitting there talking to someone telling someone this story on another podcast, and they asked me who was my favorite, and I told him everything. And the guy asked me, he said, did you know that the guy who you idolized and you said you used to go to sleep and pray at night so you wanted to be in his shoes one day? Do you know when he got drafted, you and him was drafted, just. same round the same picks. I say, hold, hold on. Jay Rice is drafted in the first round 16 pick.

They say, look it up. And I'm like, get the hell out of his. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's crazy how this is the guy that I kind of had on my wall and I had on my list that this is what I want to be. And umpteen years later, I'm drafted in the same round, the same pick.

So that's what I'm saying. This is what guys, this is what a Tyree, a young Tyreek Hill or a Tyreek Hill now who, to me, is the most explosive dynamic player in our league is telling you. Santana Marcia's a guy that I looked up to. And now I'm doing what Santana Marshall is doing and better. You know what I mean? So this is what those

guys do for us. And that's, it was amazing for me to even find that out about me being picked in that round and the same pick as Jay Wright, knowing that this guy was the, I guess you can say, the feud to my fire for me to be who I am today. Well, you and I have talked about this many times before, but Santana

was picked on, with the pick right after Washington drafted 50-50 Rod Gardner. I think it was 15-16 or 16-17-17- what were you, the 17th pick of the 16th pick? I was 16, he was 15. He was 15, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Jerry, you know, one of the reasons Jerry Rice, and I'm going to look up the draft with him in it, but one of the reasons that he didn't go super high was because he came out of this small school,

you know, it was Mississippi Valley State. And back then, it was odd to take players from smaller schools, you know? I'm looking up the 85 draft right now. Al Toon, who played at Wisconsin, was the 10th pick. Eddie Brown, who played at Miami, was the 13th pick. And then Jerry Rice, who was 16th overall. So he was the third receiver taken in that draft. Yeah.

Yep. And I was the fourth receiving in my job, I believe. It was, it was, it was, David, David, what his name? David, David, David, I just, I just pulled it up. David Terrell. Yeah.

Corrin Robertson. Right. Then you got Rod Gardner and myself. Yeah. Yeah. Another quick conversation, because we're going to get to the team here in a moment, because Santana, of course, is doing all the work with the commander's YouTube show, Command Center, with Smoot and with Logan, the podcast Command Center.

as well so you can find them on that wherever you get your podcasts. So we will talk about his early impressions of Jaden Daniels so far because I know those guys also have had a chance to sit down with Jaden Daniels. But last week when Justin Jefferson signed that contract, which became the largest non-quarterback contract in the history of the game, two things occurred to me. And we talked about it on radio. We took calls on it. I think you can make the case now. that wide receiver is the second most important position in the NFL after quarterback, when for years, you know it was edge pass rusher and maybe left tackle. But I think wide receiver now you can make the case is the second most important position

after the quarterback position. What do you think? I think offensively, yeah. You know, I think when it comes to those kind of guys who's going to basically move the needle and move the yard line when it comes to getting first down. The quarterback is throwing the ball, and they're making the game easier for them to play, you know, the entire season. So you've got to have your pass catchers.

And most of those guys are not by wide receivers. So that's why I think, you know, you see the guys are getting these ridiculous numbers. I laugh at them because I'm happy. I'm so happy for them. And it just odd to me just knowing that this game come a long way, man. I remember I came in the league,

and the running backs is getting the big money. You know, the wide receivers are so many of us, they didn't think to give us those numbers. But I think, you know, I was just talking about this the other day. I was down here at a legend camp at the University of Miami, and we talked about how many wide receivers was out there. And I say, bro, this game has just transformed to straight wide receivers. There's so many kids now want to play wire receivers.

So it's amazing to me, but I'm not amazed about the numbers of the guys who are getting these deals because I feel like especially a guy like, JJ, man, he deserves it. He's a guy, man, you know, when it comes to some of these numbers you look at it and say, well, this is the bar, you know, so if he's considered their best, then you got to give him, you know, you got to give him that dollar. He's one of the best. Like, if he's not number one, he's two.

You see what I'm saying? So he deserves them numbers more than anybody else. And it's going to be interesting just to see how Jamar Chase follows that. Because I think, you know, those guys are kind of back and forward when it comes, you know, probably who's the best right now in the game. Well, that leads me perfectly into the other thing that I thought of, and that is, is Jefferson the best? Like, you know, we've had these conversations about receivers in the game, and a lot of the conversations we've had here locally over the last few years has been, you know, with the idea of where does Terry McLorn fit in, right? But if you were to put together a group that you consider to be the elite group, you know, whether it's two guys, three guys, four guys, five guys,

Who would be in that group in addition to Jefferson? Who, who, who, who, you know, we just talked about Tyree Hill. I don't think it's too many guys playing on the level of the Tyreek Hill right now, but because he's just explosive. He's just so dynamic. I do believe when it comes to just, you know, the body of work, Jefferson has won the title. I guess you can say in the last four or five years.

He was top in two out of those years, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, two or three. You know, two or three times he was the best receiver. But I would say Tyree Hill, you don't really have to, you can put these guys anywhere. But when I call my top five, I will always say Tyreek Hill, Jefferson, DeMarchase, because I love him so much, Devonte Adam. And it's hard to say the fifth person, but I got to put, you know, Brown in there from the, The Eagles. He's so dynamic, man. It's so good, man. He just, he's just one of those guys that you've got to always check. And we see that every time we play them, you can't have no rookie on them. You've got to have the best of the best on them. Because big, fast, physical, he's just all around one of those kind of guys that he needs to be reckoned with it all time. If the 49ers made Brandon Ayuk available, would you want our team to look into trading for him?

You know, that's interesting, man. If he's a need, yeah, I won't say I won't want to go after a guy that can help us. I do believe that he'll come in and be kind of, you know, it'll be a kind of toss-up now when you're saying is, you know, carry one A or one B. I believe carry is one for sure. But when you get a guy like that that is, you know, explosive, he can catch, he have hands, he have height,

you know, that's some of the things that might separate his game from Terry and from Jahad of those guys, you know, with his size, with his route running ability, with his shiftingness, you know what I mean? Yeah, it'll be one of those things. Now, now we for sure have a 1-A and 1B that we have as our number 1 and number 2 receivers. So I would say you go out to a guy like that if he's a need. If he's not a need for us, then, no, I don't want to waste that money. All right. Give me, I know it's just, you know, there was a rookie mini camp. There were OTA days. There's a mini camp this week. But you've been around a lot of rookie passers. I mean, you talked about all the quarterbacks. I mean, imagine, by the way,

if you had just had a career with just, you know, Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen or somebody like that for 12 years, you would be up there all time in the conversation, clearly. But you know what to look for in a young rookie quarterback. What's your initial observations What are your initial observations of Jaden Daniels? You know, I'm pleased with what I've seen thus far. I'm not trying to get ahead of myself because I understand how long this game is and how it can be to a young guy, you know, especially the pocket pastor who's everybody dependent on his success for us to even be, you know, worth anything this year.

It's a lot of pressure added to that. And I do believe he's a guy that he said everything that he said. you can possibly say the right way when he's spoken to, but it takes more than that you have to go out there and play the game. And depending on the guys up front, depending on how they are, chemistry rides on the outside and in the backfield, it's going to depend on all that for him to go out and be successful. But I can say with the things that I've seen this far at this point, man,

he's raised my eyebrows and I understand while he was arguably the best quarterback selection in this year's draft. So what's important to somebody like you, if you're a veteran player on the roster? I mean, you were there when, you know, when Jason came in, well, it was you guys came in together, basically. But you were there with other rookie quarterbacks, RG3 and Kirk, obviously. What's important to a veteran player at this time of the year with a rookie quarterback to see? Just how much can he handle when it comes to the, to all the burgers that they're giving them? you know, everything that they're throwing his way, can he, you know, get this new information

and basically displayed the way that they see fit on the field every time they give it to him. You know, one of the things about young guys, you hate to be with a guy who can't handle the playbook, you know, and you have to kind of minimize, you know, where are we going in the playbook and say, okay, I want to give them so much right now. You don't want to force feed them. And the good thing about RG3, the style of play that they kind of changed our game plan to for him, you know, I'm not sure I can't sit here and put my hand on how much was he able to, you know, take in, you know, out the gate. But it didn't seem like we held back a lot with him.

You know, it was like, you know, this way of running the football with him and kind of confused and keeping defenses on their heels was a great way to allow him to, I guess you can say, slowly develop and be a quarterback or a pocket pass on one day. Like, you didn't want him to come in and out the gate and say, you have to dissect these defenses by sitting in his pocket and throwing his ball to the open guy. We, you know, those shenhanes, man, you got to give him a lot of credit for how, because you got to think about it, we had McNabb and Rex Grossman right before him. So for us to change from what we was doing with those guys to this new style of play and, you know, hit the ground running with them,

that hats off to those guys were saying this is what we're doing. want to do to slow down his development or his thinking process of trying to find an open guy. The way we're going to run this ball with him and these running backs is going to have things wide open. So when he does have to throw the ball, he don't have to

think twice. And, you know, people take that for granted. That was a great job by that coaching staff, you know, being aware of who they had that quarterback and knowing if we we needed the guy who we want to be in the pocket, excuse me, about the burp or whatever. If we need a guy

that we want to play this pocket passers, he go a la Kurt Cuddy. You know what I mean? We have that guy just in case we do need to play that kind of style of football. So, man, it was, you know, that's what I'm thinking about when I'm looking at dating. And to crazy, I don't want to get ahead of myself. I don't want to have everybody sitting in a seat.

Because I know how our fans are. When they hear things, they're riding with. I'm for that. But allow him the time to be a rookie, to make those mistakes to get the half is up to half is down. I say all that to say this, though, from what I've seen, he looks well. He looks like a guy that I can play this pocket, and you already know I'm dynamic with my feet. So who?

I'm just thrilled to know that we have them. And like I said before, the whole high about this season is not based on us having a lot of win. To me, it's based on do we have our quarterback. And it's all going to be on how he goes out there and play the game. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Specifically with what you've seen, though, remember, like before the draft, he's too skinny. Some people thought I didn't because I watched every single game that he was more of a running quarterback. He can run, but I think he's got great mechanics.

I think he's, you know, tall. I think he can throw and process and all those things. So specific to some of those things, you know, size, thrower versus runner. Has anything just stood out to you as really positive or something that may be concerning? You know what the

positive, the most positive I see? I don't care about that whole being thin and all that stuff. He's not nowhere near as thin as people probably were saying he was coming to the draft. I've seen quarterback smaller. I've seen some quarterback's punier, and they couldn't move like him. So, you know, I would be more along with

those kind of guys who have that structure and can't get away from the one. What's surprising to me is when you hear the things about, well, he's going to be a dynamic quarterback because of his running ability. No. You don't throw for 3,000 plus yards and have that many touchdowns, and you're a hymorphine winner because of your running ability. Yes, you got to accredit that with all that, you know, it goes together. But his, his, the way he can, I guess you could say his ball placement skills is,

you know, second to none right now as a young guy and me watching him from afar, I'm like, wow, this guy has touch. He can throw it in there when he needs to he can put some behind and he can throw the deep ball better than some of the best of them. So when you have all that, that's arm talent. You know, everybody else has to have arm talent. You know, a guy asked me this other day, and this is no offense to RG. He said, well, do RG have an arm's attitude?

I say, no, not saying the RG couldn't throw. We saw he can throw with the best. he had a very hard ball and he can throw the deep ball. When you say Armtown, you say a guy of, let's say a Demerino, a Rogers, a Brett Farb. Like, Armtown it means they can get it in there in tight spots. They can take something off over when they need to. They can get, you know, get you on the deep ball. Those are the guys that can change.

They have like a pitcher mentality when they're throwing the football. They have changeups. They can do, they can go fast, fast ball. curveball, you know, change up, sinker. They have all those different, you know, ways of throwing the ball to you in their tool bill. And that's what stood out to me the most. I'm watching this guy throw different passes to different receivers and knowing how much

to give them and how less, you know, and how much to take off depending on the route that that guy has. So to me, that's what stands out the most at this point of his game and knowing is only going to get better. Is there anything that you've seen or you've heard that would be, Not concerning, but just something to keep an eye on. Well, the only thing that's alarming to me is just what folks said about him being a fierce guy, a fierce competitor. Right.

Like, he don't want to go down. You know, and that's something that you'll learn quick. In addition to the NFL, they don't teach you that quick. And I think he had the right kind of coaching staff around him to tell him, like, look here, bro, you know, the way we play this game over here, we don't need you to be Superman. We don't need you to have or put the big boy pants on every play. You fight to see the next day or next down, and that's all we need, you know. So as a quarterback, you learn that, and as a young guy, he's going to know also, man, look, my job is solely on getting the playmakers around me, the ball. I don't have to be the playmaker unless things break down, and now I have to go go gadget feet.

So besides that, we don't need him to do that. And I hope that the coaching style is, you know, iterating that to him, you know, each and every week. But like I say, right now it's so early, he doesn't probably have that even, you know, that's not. probably I thought he's even thinking of because he has so much other things on the plate. You know, we've had history here of a lot of other issues with quarterbacks other than just what's been going on in the field. Everybody so far has said this guy is on top of it, work ethic and tangibles, you know, leadership, all of that. Are you hearing and maybe even observing the same thing? What stands out is, you know, you rarely get a young guy that's like, he feels like it's either now and never.

And I think some of the things I've heard, some of the whispers I'm hearing from some of the older guys, the veterans who pride they stuff on being in the room, being in the locker room or being in the building early and leaving late, they're all amazed that that's guys beating them in there every day. And, you know, like, you know, that's something you can be like, oh, yeah, that's cliche. that's something that he should do. He's a quarterback. No, you know, you don't have to. You know, especially around this time in year. Get your sleep, get your rest, coming in at when it's time, and then you go to work and then you go home.

But for a young guy that feels like, man, this season is our success lies on my shoulder and my feet. He's in there. It means something to him. And he also understand that, you know, I got picked, the number two overall pick, the number two quarterback in this league. I got to go out there and get these people what they want.

So I take it. That's what he's saying when he's doing all these things because, you know, that that shows me that here's a guy that it matters. It matters more than just say I'm going to be a good quarterback down the line. I want to be that quarterback now. And if I have a chance of, you know, progressing, you know, that opportunity or making that a reality faster or sooner than later, then let me start now by doing little things that I've heard other quarterbacks do to be ready yet now today. You said something, and I completely agree with you, that this upcoming season is really about making sure that they got it right at quarterback and that there's a quarterback moving forward. With that said, they got 17 games and they got 52 other roster spots.

So real quickly, are you concerned about the offensive line, or do you think that a different coordinator with a different quarterback will make it look different? No, I'm always concerned about those guys. I mean, that's been my concern all my year. You know, all my years are playing. You know, if we could protect our quarterback, then I shall eat on the outside. He has more time to get me the ball. We have more time to run the ball. We have time to be one of those guys, I guess you could say,

have a balanced offensive attack, you know, running and passing the ball. What I look at right now, we have, you know, some of the similar stuff coming back. I think we got better in the interior. That's an obvious. I can't sit here and bump my gum too much about the young guy that we got that can play both tackle and guard, which I'm pretty sure you probably be a left tackle more than a guard.

And then we also bring a Wiley back. So, you know, at right tackle. So, you know, do I think it's room for improvement there? I don't know. I think with depth, we should see, you know, how great of a depth, you know, do we have at that position. But I think that's always how my list when it comes to, you know, being productive offensively. I don't solely worry about the quarterback.

I think every quarterback on this level can be what you ask him to be if he has the protection. And I think that these coaches are not going to go in that season with that, you know, one Astrid saying that we haven't really checked that one off yet. Is there a player or maybe two that you're excited about other than Jaden Daniels for the upcoming season? Oh, you know what? Offensively, I could say, I would say, I want to see that backfield with what I knew, you know, addition, you know, with the running back that we got in there. Echler would be a great, I think, counter to what B-Rob brings already.

And don't get me wrong, besides Echler, you know, with those guys, I think they can have a little thunder and lightning kind of, you know, one of those, I guess you can say, rekindling them planes from when. when the Giants did it well. The Giants did it to me the best when it came to Thunder and Lightning. And I think those guys have a little bit of that in them. Besides that, I can see on the defensive side, you know, I talked about the young kid.

We got that linebacker from Rutgers. He just put together. You know what I mean? He's one of those guys that I haven't seen in a long time looked the way he looked as a rookie, you know? and me and Logan and Fred was joking about it on the show that you know Fred said I had a man cross

on him because we know Fred Are you talking about Jordan McGee? Yes, McGee. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. He went to Temple. Yeah, Temple. Yeah, yeah. Right.

I'm sorry about that. I was thinking about two different schools. Four of those schools I had to play in the Biggie, so I knew one of the other. Jordan McGee is, I mean, when you just watch him, you know, he looks phenomenal. And just knowing that position, I'm not sure that we're going to need them to be a guy that plays a lot this year. I think special team is going to be key for him, knowing they have the new rules with the kickoff and everything.

He probably fits their, you know, better than anything on defense. But just knowing how this defense's coordinator thinks and how they play, watching them in Dallas and watching how, you know, Dan Quinn, you know, used his defense in Seattle and Atlanta, it's great to have those interchangeable guys that you can play at that position knowing that one out weakest positions the last four years, you know, a linebacker. And now you have Louvre, you have McGee, you have our guy Bobby Waggwick. We already call him Bobby Yellowjacket, you know, all our friends move, you know, name everybody every time they come in our building.

But you have so much talent at that position now. All he can do is sit back and be a fun. And you also still have Jordan, you know, have Damon Davis that he can go out there and, you know, learn from those guys as well. But I think when you actually, you know, McGee, he raised my eye by just knowing that he's a young guy. He's a rookie. And he's sitting behind two guys right now that is playing on all-star levels that he can just sit back there and took up the game from. Did you see Jaden Daniels' first pitch at the Nats game yesterday? I didn't see it.

I heard, you know, social media, when you don't see it, you kind of can see it still. Right. So I didn't see it, but then I saw it, you know, and, you know, hey, he's a quarterback. Have you ever been asked to do it, a first pitch? I wasn't fortunate to do it at an MLB game. I did it at a minor league game, and it was a group of us doing. It was a whole heap of Washington Great doing it. So I didn't have to worry about it if I messed up, you know,

I was going to be, you know, talked about. But I actually got it over the plate, you know. I went up there, calm, cool, and relaxed and say, hey, I'm no, I'm no pitcher. I'm not trying to make this thing look great. I'm just going to try to get across the plate, and I did so. Well, you were not, you were a track guy in this spring, right? Yes, yes. All right, this is always fun with you.

I appreciate it. I hope you're well. We'll do it soon. As always, man, thank you again. Santana Moss, everybody, always one of my favorite people to have on this show. great talking about today's team, and he's really good because he's got an excellent memory talking about the teams he played on back in the day here in Washington. Up next, Christine Brennan from USA Today to talk about Caitlin Clark being left off

the USA Women's Olympic Basketball team. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being. to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast. The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled UNI-F-Y-D healing. It doesn't matter if you're a big-time world-class athlete or just a somewhat athletic podcaster like me. We all understand the importance of mental and physical well-being and proper recovery for top-notch performance. That's why I'm excited that Unified Healing is sponsoring the podcast now. Unified Healing is a new and super innovative global network of wellness centers powered by energy enhancement system or EE

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Always great reading Christine and seeing her, whether it's on CNN or ABC or wherever. Christine's a columnist for USA Today. But the great Christine Brennan joins us right now at C Brennan Sports on X on Twitter. And I reached out to you because, and I actually read this right at the end of my radio show this morning. I wish I had read it before the radio show. Because I think you and I are pretty much on the same page. but Christine wrote a story in USA Today titled, Leaving Caitlin Clark Off Olympic Team, USA Basketball, Airballs on Huge Opportunity. So we will get to that in a moment, but how have you been?

It's been a while. Well, it has gone, and I'll tell you, we're both long-time survivors thriving in DC media, D.C. media, everything's great. I'm gearing up for the Paris Olympics. it will be my 21st Olympics in a row winter and summer. LA in 84, I started when I was in kindergarten. Quite a few with the post, and then, you know, I said today, and Miami Herald was my first one, L.A. and I just feel so fortunate. I would have hoped to go to one as a girl growing up in Toledo and going to Northwestern.

And, you know, to think of this wonderful opportunity, I am really lucky. And as I said, feel just so fortunate, and things are great. And I hope with you as well. What was the first year you started covering the Joe Gibbs Redskins teams? That was 1985. So Gary Pomerant covered the team in 83 and 84. And then they moved me on to the beat. Gary had two great years and was ready to do other things.

And Wilbon, my college classmate, Mike Wilbon, we met first day freshman year at Northwestern, my brother and sister to this day. You know, Welbon said, they're going to put you on the beat because he was already I arrived in 84, he arrived in 80 to the post, and was instrumental in getting me to the post. And he goes, he goes, this is bigger than the White House, and, you know, when you're covering the skins and all that. And I was like, you know, I mean, I knew that, and I'd covered, I'd been at the Miami Herald. I covered the Dolphins. I covered the Super Bowl.

I covered the Miami Hurricanes in 1983, the national championship year every day from August. And I wrote my first book on the Miracle of Miami that Bernie Kosar and Howard Schnellenberger team. So I knew football, and I'd covered a lot of big things, but it was a big deal. First woman on the beat, lots of attention, all the TV stations doing interviews. I said yes, because I pictured the 10, 12-year-old girl on the couch with her mom and dad watching and being inspired. I never had a woman to look up to in sports journalism, and so I wanted to be that role model for them. And, yeah, in three years covering the team when Washington won games and won Super Bowls, the poor

generations in D.C. that have not experienced that. And anyway, yeah, so 85, 86, 87, ending with the January 88 Super Bowl, the Washington win over Denver, Doug Williams, and all of that. So, yeah, it was really a great

experience, learned a lot. Had a lot of people get mad at me, which showed me that journalists have to do that, and you have to deal with it, and toughen me up and made me, the Washington Post certainly helped make me the journalist that I am today, for sure. Yeah, first woman to cover, you know, Washington's NFL team as a staff writer.

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, the first woman, period, to be on the beat for an NFL team, right? Well, there had been a few others. Okay. But, yeah, not many. Leslie Vister had covered the Patriots. Yeah. Yeah, and of course, I had actually written about the dolphins and covered the Dolphins

Fairmount at the Miami Herald as well. And there was another woman in Florida, Michelle Himmelberg. at Tampa Bay, John McKay's Tampa Bay team, and there had been issues with the locker room there. So, yeah, it was early on. Now we have well over 1,000, probably 2,000 women covering sports,

equal access. We don't even hear about it. That means every day women are going in locker rooms and usually baseball and camera people and producers and reporters and writers and on-air people, and they're all doing their jobs, no problem, players totally born

at a different time, their dads or grandfathers that accept women, that followed women's sports, their sister's sports, they went to the games where a generation earlier, no one cared about women sports. So it's a whole different mindset, and I just love seeing all the opportunities now for women in the business. You know, for many years, and I know this about you, there were so many women that would, you know, say Christine Brennan was my inspiration. I mean, what about today's young female writers and broadcasters?

Do you have interaction with any of them? And if so, with whom? Oh, my gosh. Well, dozens and dozens. Absolutely. I mean, I do more mentoring now than anything in my career, and I love it. I've come back to the Association for Women in Sports Media. I was the first president in 88 to 90 and started the scholarship internship program

and fund two of those. So if anyone's in college or even high school, Association for Women in Sports Media, check us out. AWSM, we call it awesome. And I've come back now to be chair of the board to help out. So, I mean, if we were talking names, we'd never get to Caitlin Clark because, yes,

I am available to, I try to be available to every single woman and also young man in the business students. I get interviewed dozens of times a year for papers and projects, and I say yes to every single one, because who am I, to not be able to help every single person with all the gifts that I've been given. Do you stay in touch with any of the people you covered from the football team during the 80s like Joe or anybody else?

Joe Gibbs and I write, and, of course, the incredible tragedy of losing both of his son, so I've written to him, and he's written back. I've seen him once or twice, and always in every speech I give, I do a ton of speaking, and talking about the, I just praise him for being so amazing and such a class act as the first woman on the beat. That wasn't easy. I was going to happen in the Post, of course. I had Catherine Graham and Ben Bradley and George Solomon on my side. I mean, of course, there was a bigger institution than the Washington football team.

It was the Washington Post. So I was in great shape. And one of the reasons I so involved with helping women in sports media is because I did have all that support. It's big, big newspapers. And a lot of women didn't. And were thrown off beats by coaches and a sports. editor never stood up for them. So, but yeah,

let's see. Occasional coaching, I'm trying to think, you know, the players, I mean, I was running to Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Jeff Bostic, a little bit. Neil Ocowicz, Babe Lofenberg and I have definitely been in touch.

And we message each other through Twitter. He lost his son, and, you know, so I've certainly been in touch with Babe. Ranine to Seisman once or twice in the airport. Very nice. You know, we, they don't always love the beatwriter at the time, but all good with Seisman. I'm trying to think, oh, well, Dexter, I did a Channel 9 TV show for quite a few years with Dexter and Daryl Green. Right.

Daryl and I would sit next to each other on that show at Channel 9 and got along. I mean, there were moments he didn't like me at all when I covered the team, but well, great. So, you know, certainly Daryl. Yeah, I mean, in addition to being the first female to cover the team, the relationship, correct me if I'm wrong, was not great between the team and the paper. I mean, George Allen didn't have a great relationship with the paper. Jack Kent Cook didn't? I mean, how tough was that part of it?

Or am I exaggerating that part of it? Well, I'm a journalist, so interesting. I don't worry about that particularly. I'm doing my job, and of course, back then there was no Twitter. I mean, now, oh, my goodness, it would have been even more. But, again, bring it on. That's fine. I'm a professional, and I know what I'm getting into.

I remember sitting on the bench there at the old park one day, the one that was south of Dallas, not where it is now, the George Allen one, and in that business park. And Sonny Juergens and I were sitting next to each other of all things. And I'd love talking to everybody and getting no people, of course, tons of time talking to Frank Herzog and George Michael and the lake, you know, of course, Glenn Brenner, who we'd lost, you know, so many years ago. and Bernie Smilovitz and Steve Buccanth and on and on it goes, as well as my colleagues in the print media. And Sonny looked at me at one point and said, you know, you don't have a lot of friends out here or something. I mean, it was being nice, you know, kind of commiserating.

Like, you don't have a lot of friends out here. And I said back to him, I said, I've got friends. I don't need friends out here. Yeah, I'm a journalist. You know, I got full bore, full blast Northwestern, undergradmasters. Middle School of Journalism, Best Journalism School in the country. Obviously, I'm very biased.

I'm on the board of trustees. I think it's the school Wilbon went to. I don't know. He's never really mentioned it. No, no. It was a first day freshman year. Wilbon and I, again, go back to... Yeah, exactly, I know.

And, but the point being is, so, if people are mad at me, fine. If people are not... My responsibility was to the readers of the Washington Post. And, and also, of course, to be honest and truthful, and no one ever said anything was wrong, no one ever said they were ever misquoted

because they weren't. Because I took great to her. But did you feel it? Did you feel it from Cook or anybody else? Like Cook in particular just strikes me that there would have been an encounter at some point. Well, the first two years were great. He would actually, you know,

tell me to call him and he'd try to fill me in on some things, give me info, which was you know, helpful in some reporting some stories. Those are the first two years. Then there was a rumor that they were going to, they were going to trade Dexter. And it was out there. I think even the Washington Times had reported it.

So I went to Cook's Box at RFK, which he invited me to come, stop by any time to ask him questions. And I asked him that, and he said, that's not true. And you're trying to undermine us. And he started yelling at me. And I said, Mr. Cook, I mean, I'm just asking you a question. And he goes, you know, you're out to get us. And then at half time, I was summoned with George Solomon, my editor, to come back from the press box to his box, which is right next door, just across the catwalk. And the whole place was leaving, you know.

So George Will and Leslie Stahl, George McGovern, they're all leaving. I knew them. And they're leaving, and we're going in, and Cook just loses it. I'm never going to speak to you again. And George Solomon was there, of course, saying, you know, what are you talking about? Of course, defending me. We're both like, I even kind of laughed. I don't even understand why you're mad about this.

I asked a question. And I see that, Ms. Brennan, I'm losing, you know, respect. And I mean, it was laughable. It was, you know, plus I'm towering over Jack Kent Cook on 5-11 and a half. And so, you know, there's that. And so anyway, and he never spoke to me again. And I had, I covered the beat one more year. And then Bobby Betherd was, didn't like me at all.

Everyone thinks Bobby, you know, it was so great. And I liked him. And, but, you know, he was talking about going to either what, San Diego or Dallas. He was trying to get more money out of Cucson. book. And I went and asked at the NFL meetings, whenever that was, 86 or so. I ran into TechSram. Are you going to hire Bobby Betherd on the record? Nope. We're not going to hire him. We love him, but no. I mean, this is not running around secret journalism. This was like the easiest thing. Walk up, tape recorder, you know, notebook and ask. And he told me. And then on the record, same Spanos with San Diego. We love Bobby, but no. Wrote that big story. Of course on the record. I would would never, ever, you know, you don't ever, toy around with your own reputation. On these things, on the record, Spanos, no, not interested,

tram, no, not interested, no Dallas, no San Diego. And we, of course, put that out of busy. Journalism 101, Bobby comes to see me, I'll never speak to you again. Obviously, what happened there, Kevin, was, I lost his leverage. I exposed the lie that Bethard was telling people. Yeah. And so then Bethard never spoke to me again. And so, and never. I mean, obviously, I don't think I ever saw him again, but, you know, that's fine.

That's just calm. It doesn't bother me. I mean, so 87 season, I had the owner and the general manager not speaking to me, but I was still breaking tons of stories because that was the strike. And so that was journalism again, going right back to real serious, normal, fabulous, street smart, common-sense journalism. You had the replacement players. I was over interviewing them at the airport Marriott.

And I just broke story after story after story. So whatever they were trying to do to me, it didn't work. And it was a great challenge and lots of fun. And Gibbs was always great. Gibbs always treated me right. You know, Bessert had this California happy-go-lucky image, and he was the one that had real trouble with a woman covering the beat, apparently, with me and my reporting.

And Joe Gibbs, of course, it would have his Bible open, much more conservative, and that would you think maybe would have been the one that, you know, didn't want a woman around, when, in fact, he was great with me, treated me with ultimate respect, never went off the record, total class. And so, again, the experience was amazing. I learned so much, and it was just one of the great honors of my career to cover that team over those three years for the Washington Post. Well, this isn't why I called you, even though I think a lot of people love the stories and love to hear about that time. But I called you to talk about Caitlin Clark. And your thoughts, and I just want you to share them with everybody,

on not being named to the USA basketball team. You said and wrote what? Yeah, it's a huge missed opportunity. I think it's the biggest missed – I've covered the Olympics since 1984 in L.A. And I've covered the women's basketball team, every one of those games and every one of those Olympics at some form or other. And I've been to five of their gold medal games, and they get no coverage. The greatest team on earth and just short shrift. And most male sports riders don't want to have anything to do with that women's basketball team.

team. And Caitlin Clark, being on the team, would have brought every journalist from around the world. I just did a New Zealand radio show. New Zealand, where the announcer told me not only was he shocked that Caitlin Clark didn't make the team, but his mom was. New Zealand, the opportunity to grow the game to bring journalists from far and wide, and all of that is gone. I think it was saying I think it's the worst decision I've ever seen in the Olympic world covering it for 40 years in terms of team or player selection

obviously terrible things have happened in national governing bodies involving U.S.A. gymnastics, etc. and that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about decision selection process and truly the last amateurs left in the Olympics are the people running them because how on earth you make this decision. Now I know people are saying, well, wait a minute, what about merit?

on merit. Hittlin Clark is fourth and assists in the WNBA. That's great. And by the way, she's getting the toughest statistical defense against her of any player, bigger than anyone else who's going to the Olympics. That's statistics. That's not me. Bird-dogged, blitzed, double-team, triple team, picked up 94 feet away, extraordinary.

And she's fourth and assist way ahead of Dinah Tarasie who's making the team, and Jewel Lloyd and Sabrina and Eskew and Kelsey Plum, all of whom will be on the team. So there's one stat. We can do apples and oranges, apples and apples, cherry pick, but that is a stat. Another one, she is tied with Diana Trossy for most three-pointers made. Three-pointers, of course, are so important in international play. And in points per game, she's ahead of Diana Trossy.

So I know there's kind of this notion out there that some people have that she hasn't played well. I don't know why. She's the rookie of the month. She set markers, historical, the most points and most assists of any rookie at certain 10 games, 12 games, et cetera, in the history of the WNBA. And she's also got the stats while she's being defended in a way that Diana Turozi isn't or any of the others being treated, frankly, is the most important player in the league. And not the best, but certainly getting the most attention because they don't want her shooting those threes.

And yet she had seven in the Washington game I was at on Friday, 30 points, and then talk about terrible timing for USA basketball. A few hours later, I was able to break the news that they were leaving her off the team that they were snubbing her after one of the most electrifying performances you'll see against obviously, unfortunately, bad mystics team. But on merit, you can make the case you should be there. Growing the game, absolutely worldwide, the number 22 U.S.A. jerseys, oh, my goodness, that would have been sold in Europe and Asia.

and Africa, just like the 1992 men's dream team. And so whether it's public relations, bringing eyeballs, bringing coverage. You know, the other point I guess I'd make is, as I said, having covered all these games where it's basically tumbleweeds in the Press Tribune, if you have Clark there, all the reporters come, Clark's probably only played three to five minutes, maybe, 10 minutes of the game. So they're going to be focusing on Brianna Stewart and Brittany Griner. And finally those players would have gotten,

all the coverage and the attention they deserve. And none of that now will happen because of this unbelievably short-sighted, and frankly weird decision I'm continuing to report on why. Why on earth do people seem to be having trouble with Caitlin Clark, the undercurrent of some of the veterans that we sought the women's final four with Diana Tarrosie, you know, being cool and chilly towards her and not giving her ado. Brianna Stewart, same thing. and it's carried over now, and I'm on that story.

So why? Why? Well, as I said, I'm working on it. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Why was Diana Tarassey unable to say anything nice? Here's one. I was not at the Women's Foreign.

But I was watching. We could see the chippiness, the nasty, you know, the chilliness, the Chirreth from Tarasi. UCon, women, they were upset that, you know, Iowa beat Yukon, which, again, Iowa was playing way above its, you know, punching way above its way, thanks to Clark. lifting the team to two straight national championship games, which would have been unthinkable. But you can't help but wonder why they can't love this.

The rising tide lifts all boats. But something's going on. And it's there. And when I wrote my column and everyone can find this, no paywall for USA Today, so all this is out there for anyone on my Twitter feed, you know, USA Today, Google it, whatever. and I gave Diana Trossi's agent a week. I said, could you tell me anything nice that Dinotrothi, could you point me in the right direction?

Where would I find her saying something nice, kind, even remotely, you know, middle of the road about Caitlin Clark a week, nothing back from the agent. So, you know, I'm going to try to work on it. Also, very interesting, I am working on it. I'm working on it night and day. I broke the story 60 hours later waiting for USA basketball Nothing, not a word

The U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee Not a word stunning, but Caitlin Clark comes out and is classy and dignified And of course the big winner here is Caitlin Clark I mean the sympathy The fact that the team won't have her I mean Clark is just spectacular

And how she's handling everything But again, just an incredible missed opportunity But as I said, I'm on it And I'll stay on it and the coach, Cheryl Reeve, the coach of the women's basketball team, is also the Olympic team, is also the coach of the Minnesota Lynx. And she tweeted out, when the WNBA was promoting Caitlin Clark's first preseason game in early May, May, May 3rd, Cheryl Reeve tweeted out the hashtag, the W, meaning the WNBA, the W is more than one player.

Why did the coach of the women's Olympic team tweet out that snarky shot, whatever we want to say, it is at Clark. What on earth went through her mind, Cheryl Reeve. I've asked twice to speak to her from USA Basketball. I've now retweeted that tweet, so she's probably seen it. Hundreds of response, hundreds of retweets, et cetera. The story is just going and going. People can't get enough of it. Caitlin Clark is the reason for the charter flights. Caitlin Clark is the reason for the sold-out crowds. Caitlin Clark is the reason for the record TV ratings. NCAA. Now WNBA and it just appears like they some people just are begrudging it, can't handle it,

jealous, I don't know, but I'm on it and I'll stay on it. I know you've got to run, but just one last thing because you said something that I talked about in the open which is those that have this impression that she's not having a good season are way off. With that said, you're not saying that she should be on based on merit only. If she weren't in own mind, you know, deserving based on merit, you still think she should be on the team, correct? Well, and I know we say she's ahead of Torontoxian stats, so that's one, you know,

and a subjective decision always, right? A team, you know, who you're picking, certainly you could say she deserves it on merit. But let's just say that it was obvious that she was the 25th best player in the game. Do you still think she should be on the team? Exactly. You know, and here's why, yes, here's why. tell me, Kevin, does the best player in the WNBA make the same amount of money as the best player in the NBA? No.

And that's a laughable question, isn't it? Yeah. Does the NBA and the WMA, do they have the same amount of money for TV rights? No, no, you're going through all the, yeah. No, they don't. This is business. Right. Right.

So if they did, if the WNBA. was getting billions of dollars in TV rights. And if the WNBA top players, I mean, Brittany Greiner was in Russia, because she makes a quarter million, and Steph Curry is making, what, $45 million? So $250,000, $45 million. But if the WNBA was equal to the men,

this is what gets me all the time of when, well, come on, you've got to look at it like the NBA. No, you can't. Women's basketball needs desperately to be elevated. It's not the same as the men. It's not the same conversation. And anyone who starts saying that needs to be asked the question about the pay scale and the money and the TV rights and the attendance and everything. And to show the incredible disparity, which means the incredible opportunity to grow the women's game that has been totally lost, swing and amiss, as I said, the worst decision I've ever seen in team or player selection in the history.

of my 40 years of covering the Olympic Games. Insanely stupid, in my opinion. I can't believe it either. Thank you for doing this. It's good to hear your voice. Hope you're well. Thank you, Kevin. Really appreciate it. I hope to talk again soon.

Christine Brennan, everybody. Thanks to her. Thanks to Santana Moss. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Brunel hanging in. Go indeed. And it passes caught for a touchdown by Santana Moss. and the Washington Redskins

finally get into the end zone in 2005. From the 30, now going, D. D.C., and he makes it.