The Kevin Sheehan Show - Are Seats Getting Warmer?

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Kevin and Thom today talk about the "fire everybody" crowd but then discuss seriously if any seats (Peters, Quinn, Kingsbury) are warming. Plenty of Jayden Daniels talk including Thom weighing in on the loss to the Vikings. Phillip Rivers is unretired and an Indianapolis Colt. The boys discussed that and more. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Want to spruce up your lawn? FastGrowingTrees.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it, you don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show, here's Kevin. Tommy's here, I am here. The show's presenting sponsor is always Window Nation, 86690 Nation, Windonation.com if you need new windows. Tommy, I got this from Josh. Josh writes, the guy that called in and said you have a case of Larry Michaelitis, I agree with him

I hope you do a version of skin tangibles and talk about what a great guy Dan Quinn is laughing emoji I had somebody call into yesterday's show and try to diagnose me and he said

I think I've diagnosed you I think you have Larry Michaelitis and well there is a lot there is a lot of anger out there towards the head coach of the Washington commanders. And if you're not on board, people think you're nuts.

Well, it's not just him. It's let Adam Peters cook. They want him fired. They want Dan Quinn fired. They certainly want Cliff Kingsbury fired. Yeah, I mean, that's funny, Josh. I think, you know, without boring everybody, I think over the years, I've been accused of being a hater

much more than I have been a homer. And by the way, there were many years that it would have really been hard to do the Larry Michael thing and actually remain on the air. But and Tommy and I both were, you know, calling for people's heads. Look, I, let me ask you a question, actually, because you wrote your column about this. Take social media out of it, because that's a huge difference maker. Do you think 20 years ago, 25 years ago, that people were this reactionary to what just happened, that they lived in this recency bias, you know, world, or was there more patience?

I understand social media gets everybody riled up and it gives everybody a chance to give, to provide an opportunity. But do you think, like, I mean, do you think people were. screaming for Joe Gibbs to be fired at O and 5? Probably so. There were probably conversations about that. I think at 0 and 5 for a guy that they barely

knew. Yeah, they barely knew him. But I don't think I don't think... But back to your point, 20, 25 years ago, I think you're right. There would have been more patience. I think as general, as a society, we are

quicker to react and then you put on top of that the years and years of abuse that this fan base has undergone and they thought they escaped from that only to be dragged back in you know with this season I think that adds to it

so I think basically you've got a fan base that's damaged from the Snyder years on top of a general reaction of society of, you're fired. You're fired. Yeah. You know? I mean, what was, I mean, look, I'm sorry, but there was a show on TV called The Apprentice by the current president of the United States whose whole point was to fire people.

So I think we are more reactionary than we will ever have been. I don't, I'll tell you this. I don't think, you know, immediate gratification is very healthy. I think in so many ways it's self-destructive. And it's also incredibly chaotic. And I think more bad decisions are made when there's not, you know, a patient thought process involved. And this has really come on quickly. I mean, you're talking about six weeks. weeks. I mean, when I said let Adam cook, I mean, that was the, you know, everybody basically tweeted in our little bubble of Redskin fans. It was all about let Adam cook. I mean, this was before they played a game last year. And then after the season, it was let Adam cook, let Cliff cook, let Quinn cook. Everybody was right. Everybody was so right. I mean, even after the Chargers game this year that got Washington to three and two, you know, all the way back in, what, late September or early October?

You know, that was Jaden's first game back after missing the Raiders game and the Falcons game. And he came back after they had lost to the Falcons and they destroyed the Chargers, a really good football team who beat the Eagles last night. And by the way, a thrilling football game and an error-filled football game, but it was kind of fun to watch because you don't see games with like eight turnovers anymore. But, you know, he had an outstanding game. I mean, it was time for Bill Kroski Merritt to start getting fit for the gold jacket after he rushed for 111 yards in that game.

And then they came, you know, home to play the Bears on Monday night football. They were a solid favorite. And they were, you know, somewhat in control of that game. And we're about to put it away for all intents and purposes. and then they fumbled that handoff, Jaden did, in the rain, and it's been all downhill since. So where are we? We're in week 14.

So it's basically been in eight to nine weeks. Everybody went from, yeah, I'm pretty sure this is going to be a team that contends for a division title and contends in the NFC to everybody should be fired. And by the way, when I say, you know, everybody believes that. I know many of you don't. But there's no doubt that the number of people who think that way and believe that is much higher than it would have been 25 years ago in the same instance, especially considering last season. Like, how much grace do they get after a season like that? I mean, how much time did they buy with, you know, 12 and 5 in a game away from the Super Bowl?

It seems like they've let it all, you know, that it's, there's not much room left for so. I think, I think like a seven and nine, a seven and ten season, I think would be easier to swallow than what's looking at like a three and fourteen kind of season. They could still go seven and ten. They only have ten losses. Yes, they can. Of course. Larry, okay, Larry.

Yes, they could. Yeah. Skin Tangibles. That's what his thing was called, right? Where he would, yeah. I, uh, yeah, I, like, from, from an ownership standpoint, let me just say this. I doubt they're thinking about any of the things that you guys are thinking about. Absolutely.

Let's talk about the, I don't think, there's no rational person who you take the emotion out of it. There's no way. And he was getting fired among the, you know, the coaches are getting fired. The general manager isn't getting fired. That's not happening. Yeah. They, I mean, do you think, I think Cliff Kingsbury is a more interesting conversation. I don't think he will get fired.

I think there's a chance that he might end up, you know, getting pushed to take a job that maybe he wouldn't have taken, you know, in the situation he was in last year. I don't know that. I'm just throwing that out there. Like, Cliff will, you know, Cliff will be hired in a New York second if he's available, whether it be a coordinator or a head coach, whether it's in college or pro. He'll have a job if he wants to work. He's still, by the way, living off the Arizona Cardinals head coaching contract. They're still paying him for that. But, yeah, I think that, you know, if I were the owner of the team,

there's no way I would be able to ignore the context around this losing streak and three and ten. Now, I did say yesterday, and I do want your thoughts on Sunday's game, that yesterday I talked about how the Minnesota game, you know, injuries don't explain that one. Injuries explain almost everything this year, and it is 100 percent, I don't think, with debate, the reason more than any other that they are three in ten. They're three and ten because they've had 24 contributors that were on the opening day roster that have either made it to IR or who have missed games. You see it, by the way, falling apart in Kansas City because of the injuries that they have along the offensive line. I'm not going to bore everybody with that point. I think it's an in arguable point personally.

So I would recognize that. Sunday was different, though. Sunday was alarming because of how bad that team was on offense. And to give up what they gave up defensively, you know, another subject altogether, I think we're watching the worst defensive team in my lifetime in terms of teams in Washington. I've never seen a defense this bad in Washington. And there are plenty to choose from. And I'm sure those that are of a certain age will tell me, go back to the 60s and the team,

teams that sunny quarterbacked to see some really bad defenses. But this is, that was a laydown performance against a terrible offensive football team coming in. And I think if right now, if I were the owner, I would say there's just too much context. I see why we're three and ten. I'm not happy about it. I'm not happy about losing five games by 21 or more. I would like it to be a more competitive three and ten than it's been, because there are degrees of three and tens, and they've got five of their ten losses by 21 or more, including to a terrible offensive team on Sunday. But I would understand the context, and I would absolutely be patient, and I would say next year is going to be a different year. But these final four games, I'd want to see signs of

life. I don't want to see signs of getting more out of less. Defensively, they have gotten nothing but less out of less all year long. Offensively, they've gotten, they've had some instances in where they've gotten more out of less. The Denver game just last week when Kingsbury called a great game, you know? But I do think that the final four games, could kind of set the tone for next year, meaning you're now on the clock after the way you finish the final four games versus you play well, you win one or two of them. It ends up being a five and 12 season instead of a three and 14 season. You chalk it up to being the most injured team in the league with respect to your biggest contributors and you say go get them and you trust in them. But if they play four more stinkers like they did on Sunday, you start to.

wonder, wait a minute, you didn't, I mean, I need to see you and I need to see all of you compete and get more out of less down the stretch. So you're talking about the coaching staff in this situation. I am because there's nothing Adam Peters can do right now. Right. Right. And in terms of, we've talked about this before, bad teams can still put up enough fight. teams aren't talented can still put up enough fight to make the team that's beating them know they've been in a game. See the Saints on Sunday against the Buccaneers. You know, see it every single week in the NFL. The league is designed for you not to lose five games by 21 or more.

That's not supposed to happen. Look, Josh Harris, we heard from Philadelphia 76ers fans. who were upset that he wasn't more reactionary. I know. That he stands path too long in Philly. So if we use that as a template, as an example of him as an owner, nothing's going to happen this off-season dramatic. I agree.

Everybody's, you know, but, but you know, but it's, it's 100% right to call out this coaching staff, particularly, you know, Look, I like Dan Quinn a lot, and deep down, I think he's a pretty good coach, but, you know, everything gets magnified when you're in situations like that. And then there's dangerous situations, and I think he's in danger of having the nickname Sergeant Flogan stick with him for his tenure here. I like Dan Quinn, too, and I don't think anything will be done at the end of that. this season, even if they tanked the final four and play like they did Sunday in the final four and lose, you know, embarrassingly in the final four. I don't think anything should be done. I was just saying that if I were the owner, I'd really be very interested and I'd want to see

over these final four something completely different than I saw on Sunday. Because that was really bad and Dan took over the defensive play calling you know responsibilities and you know there was some progress I mean we talked about it here it's not like the defense was lights out Miami got into the red zone five times Denver went through them like you know like they weren't even there in overtime on a six play touchdown drive it's not like the defense is it was good but he kind of coached up a little bit more than less because he doesn't have a lot defensively.

There's no doubt about that. And they didn't have a lot to begin this season with, but they really don't have a lot now. But I can't see the owner not at least being concerned if they go to the Meadowlands Sunday and they get beat 27 to 7 and then get, you know,

run out of the building by the Eagles twice and the Cowboys once. You know, these are, division games too. And even though they make up a small portion of your overall 17 games, like it's just six of the 17, they are magnified. They're important. And even Quinn has referenced four division games. That's what we have to focus on. There's a chance to kind of make a mini statement here at the end of the year. And they could, you know, ruin Philly or Dallas's season with a win or two down the stretch. But, uh, I, I, you know, I'm not for firing anybody. I absolutely think last year bought them

no less than 2026. I would have said no less than 26 and 27, um, you know, four years, especially with what they inherited personnel wise. Uh, you would agree that, uh, there's nothing wrong with withholding them accountable for what we're seeing. not to dismiss it as just simply, you know, the breaks of the game, so to speak, with their injuries. That's why I said Sunday was different, and that's the first time I've said all year. Injuries don't explain that one. They explain losing to Kansas City, Seattle, Detroit, and Denver. You know, really good football teams.

And, you know, in the case of Kansas City and even Dallas, those were. you know, not an issue of effort. That wasn't an issue of just being overwhelmed. They were eventually, but those games were competitive for a while. The Seattle and Detroit games were really lopsided, but those are two really good football teams. And you also hit the crescendo there from that Dallas through Detroit game of having the most players and the first few games with the most players lost.

And then you fought against, you know, Miami, you fought against Denver. You almost beat one of the best teams in the league, record-wise, in Denver. But Sunday was different. Like, I knew that it would be a challenge with their defense and talked about it on Friday show, talked about Van Ginkle over and over again, as did Gruden when he came on with me. But defensively, you were facing one of the most putrid offensive football teams in the league with the way they were playing.

And you just, you, they went right. through you. And I mean, a 19 play 98-yard 12-minute drive is disgusting to watch against that team. And that's where you have to say, it's not about injuries now. You've had these same guys on the field for a couple of weeks now, even though they're not your best guys understood. But you've got to get a little bit more out of less against that team. And they didn't. I mean, Minnesota could to name the score with their offense. And this was a team that couldn't score coming into the game. So I do think while I'm totally patient,

I totally think that it would be a massive overreaction and really worrisome overreaction if Josh Harris did something. It would reek of Snyder. And it would wreak of Snyder because it wouldn't understand the context of why they have had this season they've had. which happens to a lot of teams, happens to three or four every single year. But if the final four games look like Minnesota,

I would get concerned about, like, you know, what you just said. Now you've got, now it's not unreasonable to put it on a lot more than just all of the lost players because you basically didn't coach them up down the stretch. I will remind everybody that Dan Quinn in his final four games throughout his career as a head coach is 20 and 4, 20 and 4 in the final four games

of every regular season he's been a head coach. So this better be one of those Dan Quinn magical finishes in a bad season. He's not going anywhere. But I just think the seat would be a lot warmer if it ends really poorly going into next year. Look, if nothing else, because this may be part of the problem, the owner may not be able to afford to fire Quinn.

That's an interesting thing. Let me just find that email. There's never been a reported length on his contract. Everyone assumes it's five years, which is generally the norm, you know? So, I don't think, I mean, I don't think this ownership is in a position to pay two coaches at the same time. I got this from Tom. Tom wrote, Kevin, you made a comment about the business of the team being a factor in hiring and firing decisions. I think you're on to something.

Please elaborate. So I think I mentioned to Ben on radio yesterday that, you know, this, is this was a worst case for the business of the team this season and if they ended up having another one next year, I don't think they'd be able to handle it. And I say that because I think they got a bounce off of last season. There's no doubt they got a bounce, but I don't think it was the overwhelming increase in interest that usually accompanies. that kind of a season. You know, we talked about it during the, you know,

lead up to the regular season. You know, even during the season, the television numbers weren't high. Even early in the season, the local TV numbers weren't high. You know, games didn't sell out in April or May. They ended up selling out, but we've seen the increase of the opponent's fans in the stands again.

And I think, you know, next year, if they were to crumble again, I don't know, to your point, can they afford to buy them out or continue to pay them? My point would be, I don't think they would be able to afford the lack of interest that would accompany that. You know, that's the problem they have is there was not a built-in fan base here when they bought the team. It had evaporated, two-thirds of it had. And last year, we got a bounce. And it wasn't necessarily the massive bounce they were.

were looking for, and they needed this year to be the encore to last year, to really, you know, get people fired up. You know, of course, some people now believe that this kind of a season is perfect because they'll reconsider the name. That's another conversation that we can have at some point. We don't need to have it today. But I know what you're saying. And by the way, that would also bleed into, Tommy? Are they going to spend all the money they can spend on free agents with all of their cap space?

Yes, that's something I talk about in my column. Yeah. One of the questions facing the owners who've spent $6 billion to buy the team and have to spend another $2.7 billion to build a stadium. Not to mention the $130 million they've spent to keep this

in this stadium. Yeah. Yes. Wow. How did we get here? I don't know how we got here. I mean, we're used to being here. We've dealt with here before. Yeah.

We've navigated these waters pretty successfully over the years. But I got to say, man, I hate this right now. I hate it. It's not fun for me to write about. I mean, it really isn't. I really enjoyed writing glorious things about the quarterback last year. I really did. You know, it was, I mean, he was a great story, and it was an easy thing to write, you know, and now, I mean, how many times could, I mean, I'm back to pissing on everybody again.

So let's leave this particular conversation and segment with the following. Do you think anybody gets fired? Yes or no? among the key positions among the you know the general manager head coach no do you think how warm are peters and quinn's seats when the next season starts burning hot is a five you know super cool everything is is fine is a one okay well at the beginning of this year, I would have said a one. At beginning of next year, I would say three and a half. Nobody gets fired. The Cliff's situation will be interesting. I don't think Cliff will get fired.

I think that there's a chance if there's a decent job out there that he ends up having an opportunity to take that maybe, you know, he takes it. But nobody gets fired, nor should they, Peters or Quinn, but next year, the seat is, the seats are a two, unless these final four games go really badly, and then it's like a three and a half, to four. Like, it's a... Well, I don't anticipate these games going very well. I think there's a snowball going on here, and I don't think anyone can stop it. Well, let's talk about that next in my reversal of thought on Jaden playing and coming back into

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keep that money in your account. Use MyBooky as a place where you compare point spreads and totals and money lines and prop bet pricing. Again, promo code DC Reload. Washington, by the way, this upcoming week is a two-point underdog right now. against the Giants in East Rutherford, a game that looks like a very cold game. Last night it looked like it might be a snow game, but it doesn't look like that now, of course, subject to change.

But Washington actually goes to New York as a two-point underdog Sunday in the Meadowlands. So Tommy, on the show yesterday, I, after hearing what Dan Quinn said yesterday during his Monday presser, which was that Jaden had soreness. He wasn't injured. There was no serious injury after he threw the interception. There was soreness. And he actually said in the post-game show in Minneapolis, he said Jaden could have come back into the game.

I said that it's my opinion now, and I changed my mind from my post-game pod, that he should have gone back into the game. And I definitely think he should play against the Giants. Now, again, if something crops up and they find out that actually the elbow was damaged a little bit, you know, obviously I will take that back. But if it's just sore, I would have put them back in the game. I understand why Quinn didn't. You know, I think the reason was the Seattle game and having him in that

game, throwing the football, running an RPO in a game where they were down 31. But they were down 17 with seven minutes to go in the third quarter, not down 31 with not. nine minutes to go in the fourth quarter. And I thought, coming off that horrible, you know, pick that he threw to Van Ginkle, I wanted to see him back out there. Upon further review, I wanted to see him back out there. And I definitely want to see him play against the Giants Sunday in New York. What do you think?

Well, if you understand why he didn't put him out there, then why would you put him out there? I understand how he felt in the moment, but I think he was overly cautionary. I didn't say it was wrong then. I said what I wish had happened, and I think that he should have been out there playing if it was just soreness. I understand the decision, and I understand the decision for him in that moment, given the context of the Seattle game, why he erred on the side of being overly cautionary. I'm just saying, in hindsight, I wish he would have gone back out there, and I think if it was just soreness, I would have put him back out there. Well, I wouldn't have put him back out there. But, I mean, I still have not changed my mind.

I think he should play this coming game against the Giants. Again, there's four games left. We're not at the end of the season. but let me just say that if they're going to run an offense that can't protect him then I'm really questioning why they would put him out there well the injury the the elbow thing was a flukeish play right I know that yeah I know that but he was he was under duress yeah there's no doubt they did not have a great plan for the pressure.

I didn't think they did. That's what I meant. But he wasn't sacked in the game. He wasn't battered in the game. But you've got to look beyond that numbers. I mean, there were a lot of, there are a lot of pros he threw quickly because he was about to get sacked. Right.

Which is what he should do. I know that's what he should do. But there was an extraordinary amount. I thought more than ordinary that happened. I mean, I just don't, I mean, you know, again, I don't usually argue game plan stuff because I don't consider myself a coach or an expert, but my eye test was telling me that they were not running an offense that took in the consideration protecting their most, the most important thing on Sunday was to get Jaden through the game healthy, not to win it. Look, if that's what you're putting him out there for, then don't put him out there. That would be, I don't, you know, scared money, don't make money. Playing that way is probably increases the chances he's going to get hurt.

I'm not saying that you play scared. I mean, there's all kinds of ways. If the goal is to protect Jaden going into these games, then don't play them. The goal should... Oh, I think you can do both. I think you can, but if that's the only goal is to protect Jaden... I said the primary goal. That shouldn't be the primary goal.

The primary goal should be to win the game if you're going to play them. Now, you can... I disagree with you there. Okay, we disagree on that. Now, do I think that there are certain things, which we've talked about a lot over the last couple of weeks, and even before he came back the first time? First of all, they shouldn't have them in a game where they're down. 31 dropping back and running

RPO's with nine minutes to go. You don't have to do that, which was the Seattle game. You don't have to run designed runs in the middle of the field. And by the way, they didn't on Sunday. In fact, not one designed run, call

in the game. They even took out, you know, read option style plays. I think there may have been one or two, but maybe the idea was don't pull it. You're just giving it. it's not a true option. We're not having you run those.

His only runs were scrambles. And by the way, the way he scrambled, clearly the message was, you know, we're not treating the first and second quarter as fourth quarter overtime in a tie game because there was a third and five where he ducked out of bounds, two yards short of the first down with Harrison Smith. you know, breathing down his neck.

And that was a play where you turn the clock back to earlier in the season, he probably goes for it and puts himself at risk. So they actually, I think, did get the message across for him in certain instances to protect himself as a scrambler. And they didn't call plays that put him at risk on designed runs and even zone reads. But in terms of that being the primary goal, I don't want to see that because then you're not going to get the best of them. You're not going to get the best of the offense.

The primary goal has to be to be really successful offensively so that you have a chance to win the game. But I do think you can do both, and I think we saw evidence of that. Now, what you're speaking of, which is they didn't have a good plan for, you know, Brian Flores' pressures. I agree with that. And I don't know why they didn't. You know, a lot of teams haven't during the course of this season.

including the team they played last week, Seattle, who did nothing offensively against Minnesota's defense. But, yeah, I want to see it play. Okay, if they didn't have a good plan for the pressures of what Brian Flores. And, you know, you're to coach, and, you know, you say to your offense coordinator, you know, you need to protect Jaden, and he says, you know,

we don't have anything that we're protecting him already. Shouldn't the conclusion be then to pull him out? Well, this wasn't a game in which he was being battered. I know that. Yeah. So they didn't do a good job with the protection, meaning, by the way, on some plays they did a good job with the protection. There were some really good plays offensively.

They only had the ball four times. I've emphasized that the last two days. But there were so many immediate pressures, but he didn't take a pounding, he didn't take a beating, he didn't get sacked over and over again. He wasn't forced to scramble over and over again. He only had, I think, three or four of those. He was able to unload it, and in some cases, you know, dirt it at the feet of, you know, Terry McClorn instead of a grounding penalty or sack.

Yeah, or hit the check down quickly. So he was able to protect himself from that. standpoint on the plays that they didn't block it up. Well, I don't know. I just remember watching him throw the ball a lot quicker than he felt he needed to, more often than not. Yeah, there were a lot of those. And look, last week, they threw it a lot quicker on purpose against Denver. There was a lot of quick game. I mean, Mario, the ball was out quickly on super short passes because of the fear of Denver's pass rush. My biggest criticism, in addition, to not having a great plan for the pressure, though, is still going back to that first drive. You're running at nearly

eight yards per clip and you decide to get tricky with the tackle eligible, you know, and then throw two more passes. Debo dropped the fourth and goal pass. You got to catch that. That should have been a touchdown in seven to seven. But that's the part where I'm like, I like Cliff and I like his creativity and I like a lot of the stuff he does. And by the way, that doesn't mean that I don't like other offenses better, but that's just not feeling the game. Like, your running back is on a roll on the opening offensive drive of the game. And you are second and goal at the two, and he never touches it again? I mean, that, that, that, that's protecting the quarterback.

You want to protect the quarterback? Keep running the football. Yes, yes. Especially with a guy who's been as effective as Chris Rodriguez has. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. He was averaging 5 yards, 5 carries 39 yards on the opening drive. Cliff came out with the idea of using the run game.

And then when it got to the point of tying the game up, he decided that that wasn't the best way to tie the game up. And I did say yesterday, for those that missed it on the podcast, I went back and looked at that second and goal tackle eligible. I do think Jaden could have thrown the ball in the rhythm of the play. I may be wrong. I've had a couple of people already reach out and tell me that Brandon Coleman does not get off the line of scrimmage and does not sell it well enough and doesn't create enough separation. I think at the very beginning of the play, Jaden

could lay it out there. Now, your tackle is going to have to make a play in which he turns around and the ball's already in the air. And maybe that's what Jaden was afraid of because he wasn't turned around. I don't know. But I just can't believe that they didn't give Chris Rodriguez the ball again on at least one of the remaining three plays. It just doesn't make any sense to me. That's, that has to be a part of the plan here down the stretch. It was part of the plan last week against Denver. It was part of the plan against Miami. You know, they have been running the ball more. You know, he had the big game against Miami. They ran for 180 yards or whatever it was against Miami against Denver last week. It was part of the plan, along with a quick

passing game to sort of nullify that pass rush. Now, Marioita had a bunch of yards, but Rodriguez was sharp in that game, and so was McNichols. And, you know, even Bill has had some good runs the last two weeks. I think they ran for a buck 50 in that game against Denver. Mariotta was part of the run game, though, if you recall. I mean, as a designed runner and as an option runner, And Jaden was not, you know, it didn't seem like that was part of the game plan Sunday. But I don't know how you get down there. You know, these coordinator press conferences on Thursday usually are forward-looking with the coordinators, or at least most of the interview is.

And now you only get one coordinator because they don't have a defensive coordinator. He's the head coach. But I hope somebody asks. Cliff about the first and goal, the second and goal sequence. Yeah. I also would love to hear him explain why Jaden checked into Van Ginkle's side. I mean, everybody in the league knows that guy makes those plays all the time, and they threw it right to him.

That was another reason I really wanted to see Jaden back out there thinking about, you know, how he had to go to the bench and sit with that being his final play. and there was a whole quarter and a half left of football. And in a 17-0-0 game. Now, were they going to win that game? No, because they couldn't stop the great J.J. McCarthy. They couldn't get him off the field. I mean, they literally, you know, he's been the most scrutinized second-year quarterback

from a negative standpoint. I think I've ever that I can remember. I mean, his own coach said he needs to reinvent his. his throwing mechanics. And, you know, in the era of recency bias, I bet after Sunday in Minneapolis, they're like, we got the right guy. Yeah.

We got him. Yeah, just remember. They can't play the commanders every week. You can't play them every week. That's for sure. They play Dallas on Sunday night football. We'll see what happens there. All right.

Anything else on our football team? I mean, what were your overall? reactions to the game. I mean, you wrote a good column and, you know, Dan calling it unacceptable. We can't keep hearing unacceptable, can we? No. At some point, it's unacceptable to keep saying it's unacceptable. Yeah. I mean, I just thought that their offensive game plan, you know, their inability to deal with something that everybody knew was coming. the Vikings are Plits happy, you know, and that they had no answer for that was a big disappointment

and a big question mark about the offensive coordinator moving forward. Let me just mention to everybody. Hard Knocks, Episode 2 is tonight on HBO. This is the NFC East Hard Knocks. It was really good last week, and that's where we, we got the quote from Dan Quinn, we lost, but we're not lost, which Sunday they looked pretty damn lost, but I'm going to be really interested in what they have sideline-wise and some of the other stuff. But I'd really like to see the whole discussion about

Jaden, you know, especially once he was cleared to come back in. You know, one of my long-time callers, and I really, really enjoy Polly from the 757, um, Pauley thinks that it's gotten to the point where Quinn doesn't trust Cliff. And that's why Jaden didn't go back into the game. And I think you kind of might feel the same way. Yes. I mean, I don't. I didn't Sunday.

but we did the week before man well again like I said I said after that game it's as as noble as their defeat was I know this from covering boxing it's very dangerous to judge a team

or judge an opponent on losses hmm why because I mean because they didn't win. I'll give you an example. The one that always comes to mind.

Remember, Razor Ruddick fought Mike Tyson twice? Very, very competitive fights. The first one was really good, okay? So he came out of there. Razor Ruddick came out of there with an enhanced reputation. He had lost two fights against, this is before, you know, against Tyson, but gave Tyson every good handle. So then you had Razor Ruddick as, like, this contender out there, and Lennox Lewis knocked him out in one round.

Don't you think Lennox Lewis was so underrated as a champion? Absolutely. God, he was such a great fighter to watch. I covered so many of his title fights. Yes. I mean... But here's what wasn't underrated. What?

He had a bit of a glass jaw. he was an athlete too man he was a big dude went down twice to punchers and didn't get up yeah um yeah i i don't i personally think that the reason that he didn't go back into the game was dan had the seattle uh game on his mind and i mean imagine this jaden goes back into the game he gets hurt again, but seriously hurt. And the questions he has to answer. So I just don't think he wanted to put himself into that. But I don't think you can coach scared like that.

You made a mistake. You admitted the mistake from the Seattle game. You know, I think it's important for Jaden to be out there. Kevin, he's only human. There's no way that every Sunday that he puts Jaden out there, that thought is not far from his mind. yeah no way i'm not saying it's it's telling him it's dictating what he does but i mean i know he he wakes up on sunday at some point saying boy if this guy gets hurt i'm going to be crucified

remember your question to him do you feel the pressure because you know you might screw it up yes you say to yourself i can't screw this up yeah i mean he's been in some of those spots where you could say he's screwed it up a little bit, and maybe he is feeling the pressure of not screwing it up. I don't think that's unusual or wrong.

I don't know how you get past that. Well, you've got to get past that because you can't. You can't operate, but there's a corner in your mind that that's always there. I think

it's dangerous to coach scared like that, and I would describe it as scared. And more so moving forward, I think it was just super cautionary on Sunday, and I was in the moment he's feeling it. But I think if he reflects on this, like, I don't want to see Jaden held out of the giant game for soreness. I don't want to see that. I think that would be absurd. And then what? Bring him back against another great defensive team, Philadelphia? You know, if you're, if he's, you know, healthy right now.

Well, then there's only three games left. Well, then you can sit them down. Okay. And I hope that's not what we're getting set up for. All right, we've got a few other things to get to. We'll do those right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Guys, personal experience with a product that I want to tell you about, it's Z-biotics and their product called pre-alcohol. Let's face it, after a nighted drinks, most at our age anyway. Don't bounce back the next day like we used to. You either have that choice the night before of, do I have a drink or two, or do I pass?

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And if you're looking for the perfect gifts this season, the Skims holiday shop is now open at skims. Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, I talked about this last week, but I want to continue to remind people about this at Shelly's backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest in the district. Because it is the Christmas season. I know some of you may be struggling out there for gifts. This is a great out for you. Gift cards to Shelly's backroom. You can go online at Shelly's back room.

You can order gift card to the amount of $25, $50, $100, or you can customize an amount anywhere from $5, up to $500. Okay? You can buy dinner there, drinks. You can go in there and buy cigars. You know, Shelly sells only the best cigars that you can find. And you can buy all this. you know, via gift card, give it to your significant other, your friends, and you can send a card via email, you can send it via text

with a special message to personalize it, and you can do all this if you go to shellacebackroom.com and go to the part that says gift cards. It's a great idea for president. It's not something that people would expect, but when they use it after you've given it to them, they'll come back and thank you for Shelly's back room.

Yeah, great idea. Philip Rivers just signed with the Indianapolis Colts. That's so great. He's unretiring. First of all, if you don't know why, Daniel Jones, who basically was playing on like a fibula injury,

like almost a broken leg, on one leg, tore his Achilles on his other in the game Sunday. day against Jacksonville. I mean, the Colts. I mean, what a great story for the first, you know, month and a half of the season. Now they've lost four or five, and they would seemingly have no hope.

They're still very much in the playoff picture, which is why they went to Philip Rivers. Riley Leonard, the Notre Dame quarterback from last year, was their backup quarterback, and he got hurt. And by the way, he isn't ready for this. So Philip Rivers, out of retirement. Those of you who have been listening long enough know that I am a massive Philip Rivers fan. He retired in 2020 after playing that one season with the Colts. They lost a playoff game in Buffalo that was really winnable.

And he's actually eligible for the Hall of Fame. He's one of the semifinalists for this year. But he is signing, and it comes one day after his 44th birthday. that makes him the oldest active player in the NFL ahead of, I guess, Aaron Rogers and Joe Flacco. And I would imagine he might start Sunday against Seattle on the road. Oh, no. If I were his family, I would have said, Pops, let's wait a week. This isn't the game to come back again.

You don't want to at Seattle, too. The game's at Seattle. Well, he was always furious. Oh, he is fearless. That's one of the reasons I love him. Yeah. The dude, well, he's one of the all-time gunslingers, for sure. Yesterday, Shane Steichen, the coach said he left the door open.

He was asked whether Leonard could play, and he said, well, that's the hope. We'll see how it goes. And then the story came out that Rivers was working out. He worked out this morning, and they have signed him. Now, I don't know. Maybe he won't play. Maybe he's just the backup. up, but why? I don't think Philip Rivers is coming out of retirement.

Semi-finalists for this first Hall of Fame opportunity, which, by the way, I think he is going to make the Hall of Fame, but I don't think he's, you know, a first ballot Hall of Fame, right? I think it's going to take him some time to get in, but I think he will eventually get in. He's not coming back not to play, right? I would think so. I would think he's coming back to play. You know, this is interesting because the first thing I thought of, and not that Phil Pervers is equal to this guy, but I was trying to think of situations where players have been called out a retirement that have been retired for a couple years to play.

And in 1979, Will Chamberlain, who had been retired for six years, was offered a contract to play for the Cleveland Cavaliers. But he didn't do it. He didn't do it. Yeah. He didn't do it. But he was offered a deal, and over the years, there were a number of teams, supposedly,

that toyed with the idea of trying to get Wilt to come in and play because he was such a physical beast and kept himself in good shape. He would have been 43. And how old is his river? 43? 44. And by the way, I'm reading right now, he's technically signed to the practice squad to start,

which does not affect his... Hall of Fame eligibility. He's got to be called up to the main roster for that to happen. Yeah, I'm trying to think of like football players that, you know, came out of retirement like many years later. I can't think of any examples. Can you remember? I don't know if you remember this, but Jim Brown was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when he was about 50 years old. Right. Wearing a Raiders uniform. Yes, I do remember that.

I do remember that. Yes, I do remember that. And there was a rumor that he was going to come back and play for the Raiders. Right. And I looked into it a little bit, you know, like last night, and the Raiders never offered him a contract or anything like that. Right. This was kind of like all in Jim Brown's mind that he wanted to come back and play.

Huh. And you know what? It happened. It happened on the heels of Franco Harris breaking his rushing record. Ah, yeah. Jim didn't Brown didn't Jim Brown didn't like that

because he didn't like the way Franco ran he didn't run you know he didn't run over guys like like Jim Brown did right but that

but that was all Jim Brown's invention it wasn't the Raiders that really did that I can't think of too many other people I mean I'm looking through just lists and it's like you know

two years here and there you know for NFL players it's really boxing more than any else, you know, Sugar Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali, you know, retiring and then unretiring. We've seen that in boxing. You know, there's Martina Hingis in tennis. She retired and then didn't come back for another, I think, you know, six seven years, five or six years. She was injured. There was also like some, you know, I think she actually did have some allegations of substance

abuse or, you know, substance enhancers. Yeah, honestly, I can't think of a really good example in football. I know somebody's going to send us something, but I've pulled up every single list, and it's like Darren Waller, Marshaun Lynch, Tom Brady retired for about 10 minutes. Now, there are certainly a list of football players who retired too early. You know, Barry Sanders would lead that list. because we always thought he would eventually come back. Yeah.

Philip Rivers is going to just, you know, be on the practice squad in case Riley Leonard gets hurt. I don't know about that. I think if they worked him out and he's in shape and he can actually play and he's familiar at all with the system, he played well in 2020 his final year, you know, with Indy. I remember following that season, he played really. well and played well in the playoffs. I mean, he led them to a playoff season that year.

Wow, that would be interesting. Aaron Rogers and Philip Rivers in the playoffs. All right. Oh, I wanted to, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to mention. I just wanted to give a plug to a book that I've gotten. Okay, let me just mention this real quickly before you plug the book. Yeah, go ahead. Derek Queen last night, the rookie from Maryland, who plays for the pelicans, who are terrible, the New Orleans Pelicans. He had the first triple double for a rookie playing center in the history of the game. I mean, that sounded surprised.

That surprised me. But he went for 3310 and 10. He's got a really good shot to be the NBA's rookie of the year. Cooper Flagg, I think right now is a slight odds favorite over him. Con Cunupple might be the. same. But Derek Queen, I mean, I remember, you know, watching him for the first few games last year and going, this dude's special. Like, this is so obvious. He just, and it's in a unique way because he's a basketball player. He's not just an athlete. He's not an 18-year-old raw

athlete. He can play. His game is mature. He's ready right now. And he's really been impressive as a rookie player. 3310 and 10 last night. He continues to really play well. Any Wizards? You want to talk about Cam Whitmore? How about that? No, he's not with the program.

He's not practicing hard enough. How can people tell? Well, they can tell. The funny thing is, I think I said not on the podcast, but I was like, tuning in here and there, Cam Whitmore really is a talent, which he is he's a real talent but you know

apparently he doesn't practice very hard or even want to practice and you can't do that if you're a wizard's I mean it's part of the wizard's culture you know that's right we have we have a standard the standard is the standard Tommy all right

tell me about the book you want to plug well it's called RFK all access it's a big coffee-taste style book. Scott Cunningham. I had him on the show. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, the former team photographer got this great. I mean, if you're looking for something besides Shelley's backroom gift cards for a Washington football fan, a commander's fan, get this book. You can order it by going to rfkall

access.com. You know, I mean, you can't go wrong. If you're a, of a, of, a football fan, and this is under your tree on Christmas morning, I guarantee I'll tell you what you'll be spending the rest of the day Christmas doing, is going through this photo book of some great, great photos, game photos, practice photos, you know, off the field photos, just great stuff. You know, if I was a Washington fan, this is a book that I'd want to have. I had Scott on the show earlier in the season. It may have been at the end of the summer. getting right now, but it's a great book and it's a great idea for a gift. Man, you're really pushing gifts on this show today. Oh, you know, it's the time of year. I get it all the time. I get it

all the time. Not long ago we were out and some little kid came running out of a store, pointed at me and started yelling Santa Claus. Yeah. I get that a lot. You know what I forgot about and I had it down here on my, you know, very organized rundown for the show today. And I didn't prep you for it so we can do it on Thursday, but I think we should talk about the Notre Dame situation and the way their athletic director and the way that their university handled getting left out of the playoff. Are you up to speed on that story? Does it interest you at all? No, but I'll do my best. Do your best, because I think it's actually a, it's Notre Dame football.

And they feel screwed, and he's essentially threatening everybody from the ACC to ESPN. And I just, I think the whole thing comes off as sour grapes and incredibly childish and short-sighted and like, who the hell do they think they are? and by the way, I'm a bit of a closet Notre Dame fan, always have been. And I think they could have won the national championship this year. But the sport has kowtowed to them, I think, far too long. And this is like one of the first times where it didn't go Notre Dame's way. So, I don't know. I think we can talk about that on Thursday show.

I'd like you to try to prepare a little bit for it. I think we just did talk about it. No, we didn't. I talked about it. I want you to talk about it. I agree with you. No, you don't. That's too easy.

And you don't know enough. You don't know enough about it. You do these things sometimes. I know enough to say that if it's Notre Dame, you know, I am not a Notre Dame fan. I think like you just said that, you know, the sport has always, you know, kowt to Notre Dame, like you said. I think they've generally got everything they want, and I think this is a tantrum.

Oh, God, did we just do it? Yes. I wanted to do... I wanted to do more on it. I wanted to talk about why they didn't get into the field. I wanted to discuss that they didn't deserve to get into the field. I also think we could talk. It could morph into a kind of.

conversation about James Madison and Tulane being a part of a 12-team college football playoff. And I'm very happy about that. I knew you would be. See? All right. We can go somewhere with this. Why don't you do a little bit of homework, and we can end up talking about the little

guy getting in not just one birth, but getting two births into the 12-team college football playoff. I'm disappointed. Somehow, Navy didn't get in. They were in the hunt. They were absolutely in the hunt. Tulane is a 17.5 point underdog at Ole Miss in the first round, and Madison is a 21.5 point underdog at Oregon. Ole Miss, by the way, already played Tulane this year and beat them 45 to 10. So two of the four kind of magical on-campus first-round games include an 18-point favorite and a 21-and-a-half-point favorite.

I don't think that's honestly the best thing for college football. But I want to talk about this in a longer-form environment on Thursday show. So you have some homework. You give me homework all the time. Like, hello? That's what I get from Tommy. When I haven't retweeted Tommy's column, I get a text in the middle of Sunday's football games.

Hello? I mean... You still ignore it. I saw it later in the day, and then I was working on putting a podcast out. And then I retweeted it yesterday or today or whatever. I mean, hello. Hello back. What do you do on Sundays when football's going on?

Oh, I go over to the cigar store and watch football. Oh, you do? All right. Yeah. How many cigars was the Washington, Minnesota game? I get a pretty big cigar, but one usually lasts the game. Okay. All right, pal. All right, friend. I'll talk to you on Thursday. I'll see you, buddy.

Back tomorrow with Souter. Okay. Thank you.