The Kevin Sheehan Show - Bare Breasts & Paper Clips

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

Kevin and Thom today on the new Washington Post story about the culture of sexual harassment, exploitation, abuse, and more with the Washington Football Team. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. All right, it's a sports fix Wednesday today. We're a little bit off our normal rhythm calendar this week. Tommy needed to do Monday. Then you were going to do Thursday, but we got this Washington Post story that dropped just moments ago. So I called Tommy up and he said, sure. I'll do Wednesday. Does that mean I get paid the same? Do I have to come on tomorrow? No, this will fulfill your weekly obligation. But I think we have to do this show right now today because if you're just tuning in to listen to the podcast and you haven't paid attention to any of the news today, I mean, there's a lot of news going on in the world. I mean, the Republican convention's going on. We got all hell breaking loose in various cities across the United States.

A terrible thing that happened in Kenosha. We have Tommy a hurricane, Laura, who's now potentially going to be upgraded to a category three, maybe even a category four storm headed for somewhere between Houston and somewhere else in Louisiana. But the story for us in this podcast is the story in the Washington Post that just dropped this morning, written by Will Hobson, Beth Reinhard, Liz Clark, our favorite, Dalton Bennett, titled, Lude Cheerleader Videos, Sexist Rules, Ex-Employs Decry Washington's NFL Team Workplace. Now, we know that a month and a half ago now at this point, it would have been mid-July, July 16th, July 17th, somewhere around there. That first story dropped, 15th, 15 women coming

forward to allege sexual harassment and verbal abuse. The team then hired its own investigative team and law firm headed by Beth Wilkinson. That process is ongoing. There was a statement by the owner, which I ridiculed and mocked is not good enough because it didn't take accountability and responsibility. As Mark Cuban then came out and said, you got to take responsibility. if anybody knows Dan Snyder, you've got to tell him the statement that he put out isn't good enough. Well, this apparently inspired many more to come forward.

And now you have an additional 25 women, but apparently nearly 100 that reached out, but 25 willing to share their stories as part of a new bombshell sexual harassment, verbal abuse story that, again, ultimately big picture, we will discuss here whether or not this will lead to the league asking for a vote on whether or not Snyder deserves to continue to own this team. Let me just give you the headline on this one. This one hits much closer to Dan Snyder than the original one did. And we will get into that in more detail. I don't even, Tommy, this story was so long I don't know where to start, but you and I were talking briefly before we began this podcast. And I am going to start with this one section called Led by Fear.

This is not the sexual harassment section of it. But this is the stuff more than anything else that people like Tommy and yours truly and others that have been closer to the team than people not in the media. but also people in business and people who have worked for the organization, these are the things we've heard over the years more than anything else, which is why, you know, on many occasions we've often said, this is not a good organization. This is not a good group of people. This is not a good person necessarily.

And I'm going to read from this section to start, and then we'll get to all the other stuff. The section in this particular story is titled, led by fear. And I'll read it to you. Shortly after reporting for their first day of work at team headquarters in Ashburn, dozens of employees said they learned several unwritten rules. Always call the owner Mr. Snyder or sir, never Dan. Never look him in the eyes. And if he comes walking your way, turn around and head in the other direction. Quote from Megan Imbert. Megan Inbert was a former producer in the broadcast department of the organization.

She said, the fear is instilled in employees from day one. The organization is led by fear. Then this portion of the story continues. Susan Miller, a retired former president of Virginia Employee Referral Agency, said she stopped sending people to work for the team in the early 2000s after growing appalled by how Snyder treated his employees. He denigrated people. He treated women like servants, Miller said. One time in 2000 or 2001 Miller recalled, she got a phone call from Snyder's executive assistant

informing her. Snyder had fired a woman Miller had referred there because he thought she looked frumpy or doughty. He'd just passed her in the hall once and then just said, get rid of her, Miller said. The executive assistant did not respond to requests for comment. former executive assistants to Snyder described a high-pressure job with high turnover that requires two or three staffers to ensure, among many other duties, that his bar has an ample supply of Crown Royal XR, and that the end of the toilet paper in his private bathroom is folded in a hotel-style point. By the way, I think we all enjoy that. Those who work directly for Snyder He'd a long list of protocols According to three former executive assistants

Don't speak too loudly Never eat in front of him Don't go to the bathroom Unless another assistant is available to cover the phones Don't take a lunch break But if you must eat at your desk Make sure the food doesn't smell Clean the owner's desk each morning

ensuring that his calendar and daily kitchen menu are in the proper locations. Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop. Okay. This is the money part. This is the K-Mutey part coming up right here. And that his paper clips all face in the same direction. I'm being serious. I've known maniacal, obsessive people.

I have never, ever heard that kind of detail about paper clips. How can you tell they're all in the same direct? I mean, how can you tell their paper clips? That's a good point. How do you know if a paper clip is in the right direction? Would it be the end that clips or the end that doesn't clip? This is literally addict. This is literally out of the Caney and the strawberries and Humphrey's. This is literally insanity. I don't know the reference, but that's beside the point.

Tommy, I'm going to get to the rest of this. That last part of it, actually this whole part of it really speaks to somebody who suffers from major OCD issues. That's a part of it. Now also being a bad person is a part of it as well. But anyway, it continues. Female assistance and additional directives often put them in no-win situations. Wear heels, but don't let your heels clack loudly. Wear smart business attire, but be prepared to run down two flights of stairs and up again for ice from the kitchen in the basement, which Snyder preferred over the ice from the kitchen on the executive floor. when quote, when he wants something, he wanted it 10 minutes ago, a former executive assistant said.

I can't tell you how much running I did. I was drenched in sweat more often than not. For ice cubes, I felt like part of my job description apparently was cocktail waitress in the evening. That's the section that Tommy and I decided to read to you first. And by the way, this is not the part of the story that could lead to him being out. mouse did his owner. But really, just to emphasize, a lot of the things that many of us have heard over the years, and many in the business community have heard over the years, are things like this. You know, some of the stories we've recounted, like the vanilla ice cream on Mike Nolan's desk, Mike Nolan was the defensive coordinator when Snyder first became the owner, and he thought

the defense was super soft. And so he put a gallon of vanilla ice cream. on Mike Nolan's desk, and Mike Nolan, by the time he got back in, it was all melted, and his desk was, you know, totally covered and melted vanilla ice cream. You know, this is, you know, and by the way, I was thinking for a moment that a lot of this was from his early days as an owner, which we know were very much, he was very much of a tyrant. We heard this early on, and that maybe he matured and grew as an owner. but some of these things are said by people who were in the organization in the late 2000s and even into the early 2000s.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, there are more recent references than just ancient references. And you're right. I mean, this is, I mean, the meat of the issues, the sexual harassment, the sexual, the sexually charged atmosphere, the basically second class status of women in that building

it's really the smoking gun here more so than ever some of it now actually directly related to Snyder yes and I would also say that there are horror stories I'm sure that are everywhere

for executives executive assistants working for high profile people who aren't great people. You know, I mean, if you were working for Merrill Streep and the devil wears Prada, and I'm trying to think it's Emily Blunt, who was one of them, and then I forget who the other person in that movie was, but if you were either one of those two women, she was probably pretty horrible to work for too. That's a movie. The point being there are other high profile people and low profile people that manage by fear and insecurity. And look, I've mocked the Mr. Snyder thing for years. And some of you have always jumped on me. I'm sorry. I just can't imagine somebody my age, even if he were working for me, me demanding that that person call me Mr.

It's just not the way I would operate. Certainly not somebody older than me or near my age. Now, if you're talking about a 19-year-old, a friend of my sons, yeah. And I appreciate that parents still teach their kids to refer to Mr. and Mrs. Laverro if you're a child. If you're working with that person or for that person and you're in that age group, I personally find that to be an insecurity, a short man syndrome, whatever, however you want to describe it. But even if you disagree with me on that, I've heard the story about if you were walking in his direction in the building, you better turn around and head in the other direction.

Are you, I mean, come on, people. If true, and it's not the first time either one of us have heard that, that is a reflection of somebody who's deeply troubled. you know, has many issues. And this is the kind of stuff you read about government officials, executives, important people, as the icing on the cake that's about to be baked to basically, you know, show them the exit. I mean, you know, when Woodward and Bernstein really wanted to accent,

Nixon, they talked about all his little idiosyncrasies on top of the lawbreaking and the other things that he did. So while these by themselves, you're right, there are lots of executives that are eccentric and are difficult to work for. Standing alone, that's not, that's hardly, that's not that unusual. But does it make it right? Right. But what it is is basically, yeah, and this is what, now you see how bad this guy is.

Let's just illustrate it a little bit more that he's bad to everybody. But like you said, the mean of the issue is an expansion of the sexual harassment atmosphere throughout that building, which we don't know what that building is called anymore. I don't think it's a part. No. Do you think my wife, if I asked her to fold the toilet paper with a hotel-style point on it, you think she would do it? Listen, I've had arguments with my wife about whether you should put the toilet paper with the roll facing on the outside or with the inside. Well, bottom or top, you mean? Yeah, yeah. Bottom or top. And I've come around to being a top guy.

Yeah. But she looked at me like I had two heads when I would mention this, you know? Yeah. You know, one thing I was thinking about, you know, mentioned the vanilla ice cream story. I think what's been told many times in the past, too, is the story of him putting his cigar out on Vinic Sorado's arm or leg. where, you know, the one part from the July 17th, July 16th,

a post story was how he, you know, verbally mocked Dennis Green because Dennis Green was a college or high school cheerleader and asked him, you know, in meetings to do cartwheels in front of people, which was very demeaning. But, you know, there were stories back in the day about the way he treated Vinnie Serrato, too, which were abhorrent. you know, if true. But anyway, we should get to the meat of this story,

but that was, the paperclip thing is really, really crazy. And I would suggest to you not being a psychiatrist that there is a major OCD issue there as well. There's some sort of obsessive, compulsive thing with, you know, wanting your paperclips to face in the proper direction. the same direction. The paper clips all face in the same direction. That's actually different, Tommy, than facing in the proper direction. Because you can make the paper clips all face in the same direction. Yes, you can. You're right. Okay. Real quick mention of DoorDash, because many of you have counted on restaurants. They're counting on you now. And while their dining rooms may be closed,

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but you need to use my code, which is Kevin DC. Don't forget, that's Kevin DC for $5 off your first order with DoorDash. Zero delivery fees as well. K-E-V-I-N-D-C is the promo code. Let's now get to the meat of the... story. The part of this story that there is some he said, she said in this story, there's no doubt, but there is exhaustive research done by the writers of this story as well with respect to a couple of the videos and we'll get to those in a moment. I'm going to read, by the way, Larry Michael,

a huge part of the story. A massive part of the story. I'm going to read for those that aren't familiar with the story, the opening of the story and then jump to some of the significant parts. The story begins, in beauties on the beach, the official video chronicling the making of the Washington NFL team's 2008 cheerleader swimsuit calendar, the women frolic in the sand, rave about their custom bikinis, and praise a photographer for putting them at ease in settings were sometimes only a strategically placed prop or tightly framed shot shielded otherwise bare breasts. What the cheerleaders didn't know was that another video intended strictly for private use would be produced using footage from the same shoot.

Set to Classic Rock, the 10-minute unofficial video featured moments when nipples were inadvertently exposed as the women's shifted positions or adjusted props. The lewd outtakes were what Larry Michael, then the team's lead broadcaster and senior vice president referred to as, quote, the good bits, closed quote, or, quote, the good parts, closed quote, according to Brad Baker, a former member of Michael's staff. Baker said in an interview that he was, that he was present when Michael told staffers to make the video for team owner Daniel Snyder. Snyder and the team provided no comment after they were given repeated opportunities to respond to this and other allegations in this story. Michael adamantly denied the allegation.

Larry Michaels quoted in this story several times, quote, the first one, nothing can be further from the truth. I was never asked to, nor did I ask someone to complete. pile videos, as you described, closed quote, that from Larry Michael. Brad Baker recalls otherwise, quote, Larry said something to the effect of, we have a special project that we need to get done for the owner today. He needs us to get the good bits of the behind-the-scenes video from the cheerleader shoot onto a DVD for him. Baker said that.

Baker was a producer in the team's broadcast department from 2007 to 2017 to 207. 2009. The Washington Post obtained a copy of the 2008 video from another former employee, along with a similar outtakes video from the squad's swimsuit calendar shoot in the Dominican Republic in 2010, that included a close-up of one cheerleader's pubic area obscured only by gold body paint. In addition, a former broadcasting producer for the team told the post that Michael ordered the 2010 video he burned to a DVD titled for executive meeting. The former producer did not recall Michael mentioning Snyder, however. Both former employees spoke on the condition of anonymity because they feared retaliation. Michael denied knowledge of any such videos.

So we're working here just to be clear, right, Tommy, with two videos. We're working with the 2008 cheerleader swimsuit calendar video called Beauties on the Beach. And then, you know, a 10-minute unofficial video featuring moments that exposed things that weren't supposed to be a part of the main video, which this guy, Brad Baker claims, Larry Michael said, get this part, get the good bits, the good parts, because we're getting it for Dan Snyder. The second video is this 2010 video from the squad swimsuit calendar shoot in the Dominican Republic. So Michael Larry denies knowledge of any such videos. All right.

So, boy, there's so much to this. And I think, you know, part of it is I don't want to sit here and read the entire story, but it's sort of important that we read a lot of this. we comment on it. On August 18th, the Post did email the team's PR representative, a summary of its reporting and detailed questions. The team, through its public, a PR firm and lawyer, requested additional days to respond and did not accept repeated offers from the Post to show team officials these videos. So the Post has these videos. Offered to show it to the team, the team officials did not accept their offers to see these

videos. Ultimately, the Post in this story writes, the team provided no comment and Snyder did not agree to an interview. All right, let me jump down a little bit in this story here because we can't read through the whole thing. It's very long and many of you have read it already. But we'll get to the portion of this story that says interviews with more than 100 current and former employees and a review of internal company documents and other records show that in his 21 years of ownership, Snyder has presided over an organization which women say

they've been marginalized, discriminated against, and exploited. The employees also described an atmosphere in which bullying and demeaning behavior by management created a climate of fear that allowed abusive behavior to continue unchecked. 25 women, most of them speaking on the condition of anonymity because of non-disclosure agreements or fear of reprisal, told the post that they experienced sexual harassment while working for the team. Now Tommy, one little thing just with this, I'm not, I don't know that they made it clear enough to me anyway, and maybe a second read of this story would make it clear. If these are 25 new women in addition to the 15, or if it's 15 plus 10, I think it's 25 new women. That's my, my, my guess.

Did you, was it clear to you? I don't, it's not clear that you raise it. I would go along with you. That would be my guest as well. Continuing with this particular paragraph about 25 women speaking on the condition of anonymity because of non-disclosure agreements, remember, of the 15 women in that original story, 14 also spoke on the condition of anonymity because of those non-disclosure agreements. And one particular woman spoke on the record. They described male bosses, colleagues, and players commenting on their bodies and clothing, incorporating sexual innuendos into workplace conversations. and making unwanted advances in person or via emails, text messages, and social media. Here was a portion of it that I thought was very interesting. Many said they were motivated to speak out because they were angered by Snyder's comments

after the post report last month that detailed allegations from another 17 women. So there you go. There you go. That explains it. Yeah. which they read as an attempt to distance himself from the workplace culture described. I'm telling you to... Like we talked about.

I mean, they sent this out to their season ticket holders. They attached it. Not season ticket holders. They sent it out to their business clients and sponsors. Okay, business clients and sponsors. Yeah, to them, I mean, they thought they got away with something. We were sitting here on the air. that day when the statement from Snyder came out and I said to you, per usual, no

apology, no personal responsibility taken. And this is the wrong strategy. And they just never learn. They don't learn. And it's because he never learns. Why? Because he never thinks it's his fault. You know, the fact that in this story, these 25 new women that have come forward said they were motivated to speak out because they were angered by Snyder's comments is proof, it's case and point, that they didn't handle the public relations of the first story very well. Mark Cuban told everybody that three days afterwards. Yes. All right. Now there's some specifics here.

One of the women interviewed for this story accused Snyder of directly humiliating her, the first such claim made to the post. former cheerleader Tiffany Bacon Scowerby said Snyder approached her at a 2004 charity event in which the cheerleaders were performing and suggested she joined his close friend in a hotel room so they could get to know each other better. Scowardby's account was supported by three friends she spoke to shortly afterward about the alleged incident including the team's former cheerleader director. Now, this is a big part of the story. It happened at fight night in 2004, an event that you and I have been to many times.

I was probably there as well. There's no doubt I was probably there. I think I went to like eight consecutive fight nights. A great time, by the way. A great night, a fun night. And this gets broken down into more detail in terms of that particular night. and I'm going to read to you from that section once I find it. It's a very long story, as I mentioned,

and scrolling through it to find that section with the details about Fight Night is going to take me a minute here. All right, here it is. Cigar Smoke and the Laughter and Chatter of More than 2,000 of the Region's wealthiest men. Were we among the 2,000 of the Regions wealthiest men that night? It's not just 2,000 of the region's wealthiest men. It is a lot of men at this event. Filled the Washington Hilton Ballroom as Fight Night,

the bawdy boxing theme charity event that was discontinued after last year's edition got underway on a November evening in 2004. I'll mention, by the way, it was an event that raised a lot of money for children's hospital and other children's related charities. Right, Tommy? I'm right about that, I think. Yes. The centerpiece of the event, which raised, oh, it says right here,

which raised money for children's charities was a boxing ring where young fighters competed and Washington cheerleaders performed. Snyder wasn't a fight night regular attendees said, but a photographer captured him in his tuxedo that night with his arm around Sharr, Dwight Sharr. Snyder won an auction for a limited edition Harley Davidson motorcycle spending $80,000. Now, this woman, Scowerby said she had just finished dancing in the ring with her teammates, wearing black bustiers, gold shorts, and black fishnet-arm stockings, and returned to mingling with guests and selling copies of that year's swimsuit calendar

when she saw Snyder. Tiffany, Scowerby recalled Snyder calling to her. Then 26 years old, she had never spoken to Snyder before. She said that she was surprised he knew her name. She recalled a brief, awkward conversation before Snyder said, You know, Tony is here, and he gestured to Anthony Roberts, his longtime friend of 40, who was 40 years old at the time. This is one of Snyder's high school friends from Woodward High School in Rockville. At that time, Roberts, who was Snyder's friend and was one of his closest friends, I think everybody knew that, was an eye doctor. He had performed LASIC surgery on Scowerby the year before he was recommended by a friend.

friend of hers, and she said she had noticed him in Snyder's suite at FedEx Field before a game, and he was peering through binoculars and waving at her. The official ophthalmologist of the team, Roberts has known Snyder since they were classmates at Rockville High School. As teenagers, they watched Washington games together at Snyder's home in Silver Spring. When Snyder had one of his first successful business forays at 22 years old, he and Roberts bought Porsches together. Snyder's comments to Scowerby were, quote, we have a hotel room. Why don't you and Tony go upstairs and get to know each other better? She laughed sheepishly, according to the story, and waited for a laugh from Snyder that would indicate he was joking.

He didn't laugh. She said, oh, I'm working. Have a great time. She told him before quickly walking away back into the crowd. Later that night, she confided in. Donald Wells, the cheerleader director, about the conversation. And he recalls, I remember her saying, Daniel Snyder offered me the suite with one of his friends. She was more or less propositioned.

Two other people... Well, yeah. This is, this is, I mean, for anyone who doesn't get this, this is pimping her out. Yeah. Two other people supported her recollection of that evening. Her boyfriend at the time, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. and a longtime friend who said she told her about the incident a few days later. Snyder let it be known he had a room in the hotel and Tiffany and his friend should go get to know each other better.

She gracefully exited the conversation, recalled Christy Kelly, a friend of hers who now lives in Michigan. Years later, Tiffany Scowerby said she still unsure whether Roberts knew about Snyder's remark. Roberts did not respond to repeated requests for the comment. This is, you know, obviously, you know, this, and we'll get to the video, I guess, here in a moment, but this is a problem for him, with one exception, Tommy. It is, he said, she said, even though she's got the former head of the cheerleaders backing her assertion up and one other person. No one else witnessed this. No one else heard this.

I'm just making that point. right which might protect him in a court of law right I mean again at this point it is a pile a pile like I said it's a thousand paper cuts

you know and that's what's going to do I think this is going to do them in I think you know that this is the one thing that particularly Ty Snyder to all these things but all all the rest of it it's going to be laid at his feet

This report by Beth Wilkinson, you might as well fold it into a nice little V as you did as toilet paper, because that's how useful that's going to be, no matter how many waivers they sign saying it's going to be an independent report. This will always, all of it will be laid at Snyder's feet, and that's just the crowning achievement. But all of it will be laid at Snyder's feet, everything. Right now, he is the lightning rod for all. all of it. And nobody believes any of it will change as long as he's there.

On this particular point, because I think we've got to get to the video piece of this as well, because there's much more detail on that. On this proposal, you know, this potential pimping her out to his friend, it is in a court of law not provable at this point based on what we read here. I don't think that that piece, and I know what you're saying, it's sort of the aggregate, it's the collection of all of this. But that specific piece, you know, if that was the standalone, that wouldn't get him either. Just like that story on July 16th wouldn't get him because he wasn't directly implicated. Let's get to... No, no, it wouldn't. Go ahead. Yeah, I want to get to the video stuff. So we'll do that right after.

a quick word from a sponsor. Let's get to the cheerleader video, which they write about extensively here. I'm going to try to read through it quickly. The request for the unofficial cheerleader video came after a routine production meeting in 2008. According to that guy, I remember Brad Baker, a former production manager in the team's broadcasting department.

This is one of the videos that Larry completely denies knowing about. The cheerleaders had recently returned from their calendar shoot that year, in Aruba. Baker said Michael excused two female colleagues and asked him to stay along with two male colleagues, Tim Delaney, then Vice President of Production and Mark Dress, a

video guy. After Michael asked for the video of the good bits, there was an awkward pause, said Baker, who was unsure what they were being asked to do. And then Delaney, okay, one of the vice president of production, said, I'll take care of it. Later that

day, Baker said he walked into the editing room, to find Delaney assisted by Dress, the video guy, assembling footage that included multiple shots of cheerleaders exposed nipples. His coworkers appeared visibly uncomfortable doing the work. Nobody said anything. It was just a palpable tension, said Baker, who now lives in Nashville. The door, which typically would be open was shut. His co-worker spoke in hush tones. And when he left the room, Delaney told him to close the door.

Delaney and Dress, right, the two other people that were a part of this, dispute Baker's account. Quote, I was never asked to create an outtakes video. I have no knowledge of anyone creating one or even being asked to create one, said Delaney, now vice president of broadcast and digital content for the Cardinals. I certainly would have remembered that conversation had it happened. The video guy said, I've never seen anything like that. I was a shooter. I shot it. What happened after I turned it in, I can't tell you. Megan Inbert, a former producer in the broadcast department said she walked into an editing bay in the summer of 2008 and saw an image on the screen she learned years later from Baker was part of the video. A zoomed-in shot of

a cheerleader's bikini bottom focused on the pubic area. I thought she said that's a really weird place for a shot to be stopped. I hope that's never used for anything. The 10-minute outtakes video was created June 9th, 2008. Now listen to this Tommy. Listen to the level of research that the post did for this story. The 10-minute outtakes video, because remember, they got a copy of it. The 10-minute outtakes video was created June 9, 2008, according to metadata in the video file. A technical analysis by the post and a researcher from the infirmedia lab at Carnegie Mellon University found no evidence that it had been manipulated. It and a promotional video broadcast by the team share would appear to be identical frames from a top of the top of the

photoshoot with the official version blurred and the outtakes version in sharp focus. The 2010 video, remember that's the Dominican Republic video, featuring partly new cheerleaders, was created June 22nd that year according to its metadata. In both outtakes videos, the cheerleaders looked directly at the camera repeatedly. The post showed the videos to Tiffany Scourabee, attorney Lisa Banks, who by the way, I believe is the attorney representing Mary Ellen Blair, the former executive assistant to Snyder, who they believe is behind or in the middle of the, you know, all the inaccurate stories that came out before the last post story.

That Banks, Lisa Banks, says, quote, it's absolutely appalling, but perhaps not surprising that the Washington Football Organization would produce these highly sexualized videos without the knowledge or consent of the women featured. The videos appear to have been created to serve no other purpose than to satisfy the interest of the team's executive leadership. The former employee who provided the videos, both videos to the post, described seeing a producer spliced the footage together for the 2010 video. According to the former employee, the producer identified the footage as outtakes of the recent cheerleader shoot and said the video was being compiled for Snyder. The former employee told the post, I saved the video because I didn't

think anyone would believe it was real. This former employee decided to, provide the videos to the post after its July 16th report out of a desire to see the NFL hold the team more accountable. So this former employee has been holding on to these videos for a while now. And then they provide them to the post. The producer did not recall the brief exchange described by the former coworker but said it was plausible because the outtakes were put together in a shared editing room. The producer said Michael asked for the calendar footage to be scoured for the good stuff, partially nude in other salacious moments and splice it together into a DVD titled Four Executive Meek Meeting. Michael never said explicitly that the video was for Snyder, according to the

producer, who said two copies were given to Michael. I don't know what to say about this. I mean, I can't imagine Larry Michael will ever get a real job again based on this, to be honest with you. But the important part is whether or not. not Snyder is directly linked to this. You know, he's much more directly linked to the misconduct and the harassment and the treatment than he was in the first story. But do we have in this story anybody knowing that that video was put together for Snyder? Do we know of a witness in that conversation at Fight Night in 2004

when he's trying to set the cheerleader up with his friend in a hotel room? You see, I don't think, again, the Fight Night incident, you don't need a witness. I mean, that would solidify it, but you don't need a witness to that conversation, basically. I mean, again, you take that compiled with everything else that has happened in that building that have been allegations that have been made, the charge becomes credible. You don't need a witness. I understand that. And look, these videos are real,

you know, and they're inappropriate. I haven't watched the videos. I'm relying on the description of what these outtake videos were. Who they were done for certainly could be in question. but the fact that this gets lumped together with everything else, it indicates a culture where this kind of thing was thought about, executed on, and widely accepted. You know, there's... By people high up in the organization. By people very high up in the organization. Yes.

These are not underlings just having fun in the back video room. There is, there's more in this story, including another reference to the limited HR department. Former employees from across Snyder's tenure in interviews scoffed at what they considered the team's inadequate HR department. One full-time employee who reports to the chief financial officer, Michelle Tesier, the team's PR director from 2000 to 2004, said things that go on there would never go on in a normal office. Being friendly was taken as an invitation to make comments.

I was cornered in offices. there would be no one else around in the flirting and the innuendo starts and they take it too far. Since 2016, the team's lone human resources staffer has reported to Stephen Choi, who's the chief financial officer, who's handling of two situations described by former employees deep into sense that the team's code of conduct regarding sexual harassment and gender equality existed only on paper. And I'll give you these incidents. early 2016, Shannon Slate, a 22-year-old college intern at the time, said she met with Choi to try to file a complaint against Alex Santos. We remember him, you know, pro scout who was fired. He was a big part of the first story. In a phone interview, she described her increasing level of discomfort as Santos pursued her through her internship. It started with daily visits to her desk and unwanted gifts such as a team visor or water bottle. One day after work, she said Santos called her,

asking her about her favorite bars and whether she would date him. We heard that with Santos, I think, in that first story. Santos would stop by daily and comment on her clothing, and it included a day she wore a blue dress she considered professional, and Santos told her, that's a little too short for me not to look at. Counseled by two female supervisors, Slate said she went to Choi. His reaction marked the end of Slate's career in professional sports. He basically said,

this is a sports organization, men dominate it, you have two options, keep your distance from Alex Santos, or you can end the internship early. And she said, I ended the internship early. By the way, there was another situation here too. A member of the D.C. 2026 World Cup Committee. So the mayor of D.C., Muriel Bowser, is doing business with this guy. Stephen Choi in their bid to host the World Cup. He's a member

of the committee. Yeah, Stephen's been there for a while. Yeah. Kevin, I think that this will do it for him. I think he's going to be shown the door. I think that this is just too much. I think it's just too much

too much doids to ignore anymore. And again, I've reluctant to say that because other owners who are who probably in their own way are just in their own way. Robert Kraft.

Yes. I mean, who can sit, but, you know, and nobody's talking about getting rid of them, but they don't have, they don't own an organization that has been running to the ground. They don't own a once,

a one, one, one, hallmark franchise in the league that has now become a burden. The Redskins keeps to carry the league now that, now that, now they get dragged along. there's no doubt about that there is no doubt in my mind that the other 31 owners and the commissioner would prefer a new owner in Washington that to me is an absolute given does he have friends in ownership maybe Woody Johnson apparently

I had heard was friends with him and Woody Johnson's dealing with his own issue yeah yeah so um but with that said, it's a dangerous path for them to go down because there would be a lot that they feel would be opening up a can of worms and potentially exposing themselves. And, you know, I mean, look, Bob Kraft's, the craft story alone is a story which we know is true. We know he was in the rub and tug. We don't know whether or not he was part of some sort of sex trafficking, you know, operation. But clearly that was conduct, you know, detrimental to the league. Snyder in the 16th story is removed directly.

Snyder in this story is more directly involved, but based, but these are allegations. There's no specific, you know, smoking gun necessarily that is irrefutable. But with that said, like you said, it's like it's the, it's just the accumulation of all of it. It's just, it's at some point they're just like, dude, you can't get it together. You've been presiding over not only an embarrassing franchise on the field, but just, you know, an organization that every year we got to deal with this shit from you. And this stuff is really bad. And by the way, who the hell knows what's coming next?

I mean Exactly You think this is the end? You know what? I think we predicted from the beginning that this was on that first story that this is just the beginning because when you see 15 people

step forward This is where I got into arguments Even with some friends of mine Who said you know it's just allegations I'm like look When you read these stories It's one or two women You know you can be cynical

When it's 15 That's a massive number And I bet you more are coming. And you know what? And tell me how the post obviously knew this story was coming. Who in that building decided it was a good idea for Dan Snyder to start a Twitter account? Oh my God.

Did we talk about that the other day? I just learned that this morning. We didn't. Can you believe that? What's this going on? Knowing this was coming. And some idiot said, Dan, why don't you start a Twitter account? Well, it's a private account.

You know that, right? I don't care. I know. I know it's a private account. But it's a symbolic gesture of how arrogant and idiotic. I don't know. Maybe he, maybe this is the beginning of him planning to defend himself publicly on Twitter. We know he does not speak, you know, clearly or comfortably.

But maybe he writes better. and maybe this will become a public account, and he will use it as a way to defend himself. I'm being serious here for a moment. I'm being serious. I know. He probably looked at what the president does and says, hey, you know, it's working for him. Why not for me?

All I got to do is say what I think is the truth, and then don't have to respond. But what base would he be appealing to? I know. You're right. you're right uh the base uh i'm not i'm not even sure the base on his payroll would would follow him so that's just a stupid this stupid i i do think that uh again am i do i feel super confident that this could you know be getting start the ball rolling for dan snider's exit no i don't feel super confident but i feel for the first time that the reluctance of owners to get rid of their

own, it may not stand in a way of going after Snyder. A couple of quick things, and then we'll wrap it up for the day. Number one, there was no setup to this one, like the last one. So there was, there's not going to be a future lawsuit or discovery motion for where all of the salacious stuff leading up to the story came from because the stuff in the story is salacious enough, you know, much more so than the first one. So there was no buildup to this one. Secondly, I don't have a prediction on this one.

I don't have a prediction on this one. I think the big question is, is this enough? Like, if you're a longtime fan of the team, the majority of those longtime fans have wanted a new owner. Will this be enough? I don't know if I, I think I have to read it a couple of more times. but my sense of it is not. I still think that cheerleading story in the New York Times a few years ago

should have been, should have come with a reprimand and a warning to the team. And I think it would have made it easier for them to act. But I think they're going to... Well, what's interesting, go ahead. I was just going to say the last point is I think we're going to have to wait to really have a definitive opinion one way or the other until, and I know you think the investigation is a mock That's fine. But I think we're going to have to wait to see what this investigation is. And then we're going to have to wait to see what the league's response to this story is.

They responded to the last one. I'd like to see and read what their response is to this one. I don't have a prediction. I would lean that eventually within a few years he's going to sell the team. And whether that is a nudge from the league without a vote or it's a vote that forces it. I think that that day is coming sooner rather than later. I just don't know if it happens immediately based on this. Okay. Not only do we both think that there's probably more stories to come. Let's remember this all started with what you mentioned,

the New York Times cheerleader story a few years ago. That's where this began. And opposed to their credit, they've done a great job, but they've built on what the New York Times started. Now, the New York Times had a story a few days ago, about the overall chaos of the team. We talked about that on the last podcast. And I went through it in more detail even yesterday after reading it,

because when you brought it up, I hadn't read it yet. Yeah, and there were a couple of reveals in that. Yes, there were. Yes, there were, including an arbitration going on within the league over the minority owner's issues with Snyder. That's right. That was one of the things that we hadn't learned before. And in the New York Times and the Washington Post compete with each other.

Look, I work for the Washington Times, but the Washington Post doesn't compete with the Washington Times. They compete with the New York Times. So you could be sure the New York Times, their sports department, are saying, we got to get a piece of this story. We have to go get a piece of this story somehow. By the way, and I just pulled it up just to make sure that the two shoots, the Dominican Republic shoot in 2010 and the one in 2008 in Aruba, was that that wasn't the New York Times story.

And it wasn't. The New York Times was about the Costa Rican 2013 shoot. You know, these calendar photo shoots, man, because this was the one where they were propped up for clients and, you know, that was that story. The NFL, I'm telling you, Tommy, they made a mistake. They should have stepped in. They should have reprimanded the team. They should have fined the team. They should have taken a draft choice or two away from the team.

And they should have told the Snyder, Mr. Snyder, If this shit, if we find out that this stuff goes on again or any more stuff with respect to this, you're out. And they didn't. They didn't do anything. If we find out anything's going on, Mr. Snyder, we're going to mess up your paper clips. We're going to mess up those damn paper clips. Yes, we are. And we're going to force you to get ice from your floor, not all the way down in the basement.

There's no more full than the toilet paper, either. Actually, that's always nice when you get into a hotel room and the toilet paper's got that little. triangle there. All right. You got a roll. I got a roll. We'll have more on this before the end of the week, and maybe Tommy will jump back in for an extra day this week as well, because I think there's a lot more to come and

follow up to this. But the big takeaway, the two big takeaways are that Snyder is more linked to, you know, bad behavior in this story than he was in the mid-July. lie post story, but whether or not it rises to the NFL moving to an immediate vote to get three-fourths of a vote to oust him. I'm not so sure about right now. I think I need just a little bit more time to digest all of this and read through it. It's such a long story to read through it in even more detail. And you're leaning, yes, I would lean that certainly within the next three years, that it's just going to get to the point where it's not worth owning this team anymore.

Because by the way, an entrepreneur like Dan, I'm telling you this, Tommy, he'll never be a manager. These sorts of details and overseeing these things, it's his job to hire good people, but sometimes it takes a good person to hire good people and to recognize good people. And that hasn't happened so far. And maybe Jason Wright will be the answer. How do you think he's feeling? You think he knew this was coming? Probably did.

Yeah, I know. Probably. Hey, you know what I would suggest old coach Rivera? Don't even read this story. Just keep getting healthy because this isn't going to help your anxiety level. No, it's not. All right. Okay, boss.

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Have a great day, and I will be back tomorrow. Bram Weinstein was going to join us today on the podcast, but when this story broke, I wanted to get Tommy on, and Bram will be a guest, I think, on Friday this week. All right, have a great day.