The Kevin Sheehan Show - Ben Johnson Explains

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

Kevin opened with some follow-up to Marjorie Harris' comments yesterday about the team name. He also talked Luka and the Mavs, the Nats, and weighed in on Lions' OC Ben Johnson's comments about why he didn't take a head coaching job this offseason. And then, Doc Walker joined Kevin. The guys talked about many things including Doc's days at UCLA in the wake of Bill Walton's passing and Doc's thoughts on the Commanders so far. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. There comes another heat yet from Luca. Notchick again and out of three. Got it. He's a fighting for him.

He's on fire, 20 points. Luca Donchich last night. Wow. What an absolute killer he was. He put Minnesota to sleep. literally in the first quarter. It is so hard in the NBA these days to actually put a game away in the first 12 minutes. That's exactly what Luca Donchich did last night.

The show's presenting sponsor is Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com. Mention my name for a free, no obligation, no risk in-home estimate. Doc Walker on the show today, starting. in the next segment. If you get a chance to rate and review the show, especially on Apple and Spotify, it would be much appreciated.

Five stars if you think we deserve it, and a quick one to two sentence review is very helpful. Before we get to Doc, a few thoughts on Luca and the Mabbs advancing to the finals last night in five games over Minnesota. A thought or two on the nationals who are rolling right now. How about this? Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator of the Detroit Lions, he spoke yesterday at Detroit's OTAs and addressed the opportunities he had to become a head coach this offseason

and why he chose not to do it. I will play that for you coming up here in the first segment as well. But first, this from Richie. Richie writes, Kevin, not sure why you can't get your brain right. wrapped around this. But by God, the owner's wife said it yesterday. They're not changing the name. She actually really likes the name. Why is this even a topic anymore? It's time to pack it up and move on back to your other obsession, Jaden Daniels. Laughing emoji. So, Richie, I'm going to play Marjorie Harris's comments from yesterday again.

You may think she said they're not changing the name. You may think you heard that she really likes the name. It's not exactly what I heard. This was Marjorie Harris yesterday, the wife of Josh Harris. She is also the head of the Washington Commander's Charitable Foundation, and she was at a charity event, and Ben Standing asked her about the name, and this is what she said. As you would imagine, everybody has an opinion about the name,

some good, some bad, some in the middle. And I think that we have a lot of work to do. And so that name issue is going to be on the side for now until we can get things going. And quite frankly, I had a whole day out in the community and I kept referring to the team as the commanders. And you know what? Sounds pretty good to me.

So for now, it's the commanders. So we all hear what we want to hear when it comes to things like this. But Richie, did you really think that when she said, I think we have a lot of work to do? And so the name issue is going to be on the side for now. That really sounded to you like they're changing the name? It actually sounded to me more like a clue that it's still very much in place. changing the name. I mean, why would she refer to the issue being on the side for now if they've made up their mind that they're not changing the name? And then at the very end,

let's not forget, she says, so for now, it's the commanders. Yes, it is. For now. As far as Richie, you saying she really likes the name, sounded to me more like she's just trying to stomach it for now. But if you want to believe that when she said it sounds pretty, you're good to me is an indication that she really likes it. We'll just agree to disagree. But this is not going away. They know it's not going away. I think right now the focus is on stadium back to D.C. And they want to get through the political portion of stadium back to RFK site. And once that happens, you know, it gets through the Senate and then, you know, there's a negotiation and the city council has kind of moved out of the equation, I think then we'll hear something about the name.

From Barry, Barry writes, Kevin, I am out on the team until Josh Harris steps to the podium and says, we're changing the name. And personally, I don't care what it is, as long as it's not commanders, which is the last vestige of Snyder. Also, you said yesterday you think maybe the uniforms will come back, even if the name doesn't change. Do you think the name will change? You made it a slight favorite back in the fall. Is that what you still think? Yeah, it's what I still think.

I think the name will eventually change. I do. I'd make it a slight favorite. Actually, I think I made it more than a slight favorite back in the fall. I think the name will eventually change. I do. And I would make changing the uniforms back to something resumption. the old uniforms, I'd make that a bigger favorite than the name change. But they'd both be

favorites. Also, one other thing real quickly, I've said this before. I don't think commanders is the last vestige of Snyder. I think he had kind of checked out by then, and I think he let Jason right and what's his face, Will Missilebrook. I think he just let them run with it. I do. Remember on that embarrassing 2-2-22-day when they had the stage set up at FedEx Field and Snyder was there, you know, like in sweatpants or whatever, and he was wandering around aimlessly on the stage. The Isman was up there. The whole thing was so embarrassingly disorganized. I think it really looked like that was the last place he wanted to be. He was knee-deep in the investigations, and I think he knew there was a pretty good chance at that point that he was going to sell the team anyway.

All right, Doc coming up, but a few things before we get to Doc. Real quickly on Luca and the Mavs last night. So he went for 36, first 20 of those 36, an absolute unbelievable first quarter performance. where he put Minnesota to bed. I mean, that was it. That was a true silencing of an opponent on the road and the crowd in the first 12 minutes of the game. It was brilliant.

It was one of those nights, by the way, where if Minnesota had kept pace offensively with Luca and Kyrie, Luca would have gotten 50 if that's what they needed. He would have gotten 60 if that's what they needed. He's that good. And it came last night, by the way, his 36 against the best defense in the NBA. And it just had no answer for him, the Minnesota defense. No answer for Luca.

Look, I've talked about my not being a huge fan of Luca and being annoyed by Luca's whining and bitching and just constant berating of referees. And you know what? Last night, he was mouthy as hell. I mean, he was running his mouth all night long, except last night it wasn't directed towards the referees because it didn't need to be. I mean, the game was over after the first quarter. But, God, he was, I mean, Snoop Dog was there on the sideline. Apparently Snoop Dog had called him a whiner and a complainer too,

and he, you know, basically was screaming at him. There were times where he had silenced the crowd so much. You could hear. him, you know, just absolutely running his mouth towards people in the crowd, towards some of the Timberwolves players. He was insane last night, man. I mean, he hit runners, he hit mid-range jumpers, he hit mid-range fadeaways, he hit long-range bombs. The dude plays in slow motion. I'm not even sure who the comp for him is. Birds probably the best. comp. But I'll tell you what I'm not ready to do, which some are doing, and it's a bit premature,

in my opinion, sort of anointing him as the best player in the NBA or even one of the top two or three players in the league. That is a sport that requires rings before you go to that level of lofty praise. I mean, his skill level is right there with some of the all-time greats already. I will, I'll admit that. I mean, his offensive skill level is all-time great, like right up there with some of the greats of all time. But he's not a great defender. Either was By the way. But more than that, he doesn't have a ring yet. He's got a chance. You know, he has a chance not only because of his play right now, but because of Kyrie Irving's play. I mean, what a combination.

Shout out to my guy, Tim Legler. Legler, when Kyrie got traded to Dallas last year, he said, you know what, if, you know, if Kyrie becomes interested, you know, in playing again and behaving and living up to his responsibilities, Dallas will win a title. And he said it earlier this year, too, after the trade for Gafford, I think in particular, he said that he liked Dallas's chances. But what a turnaround for Kyrie Irving. You know, he earned what he got for a few years, you know, there, which was basically ghosted. You know, he was nearly ghosted out of the league. Nobody wanted him a year and a half ago.

But nobody's ever questioned his on-court skill and brilliance offensively. But this has been one hell of a career renaissance for him. 36 for him last night as well. Stan Van Gundy said the other night, he said that Luke and Kyrie is the greatest scoring backcourt of all time. I'd like to see it for four more wins coming up in this series before I would even consider it, because Steph and Clay won four titles together as a pretty damn impressive offensive backcourt pairing. But man, the Mavs put it on Minnesota last night. And Luca, while not my favorite on-court personality, there is no denying that he is one of the most skilled offensive players we've seen.

There are others. You know, Yokic in recent years is still at the top of my list right now. But last night, Luca was, in terms of the killer instinct, it was Jordan, Kobe, Bird. I mean, that place was buzzing. And then nine minutes into the game, they were packing. it up. It was that much over. All right. The finals should be great. The final should be great. How about the Nationals? I mean, again, last night, another incredible pitching performance. They take three or four from Atlanta. Trevor Williams, five and two thirds, allowed just one earned run.

Seventh start in his last date, allowing no more than one earned run. He lowered his ERA to two 2.22. Really a hell of a start that we're now in the second third of the season. They're three games below 500. They're two games out of the wild card race. They head to Cleveland tonight to face a very good Guardians team. That's hard to say. But I'm not going to tell Cleveland fans what to say or not to say. I don't have that vested emotion in that team. I would bet for Many of them, it's pretty hard to say. But anyway, they're 37 and 19. They've got the third best record in baseball.

So a big weekend coming up. And like I said to Tommy yesterday, like if they can hang around for the next month and a half and they're sitting there mid-July, three games back of the wild card, last wild card spot, I wonder, I wonder if the learners would let Mike Rizzo be a buyer at the trade deadline. doubt it. Wanted to mention real quickly on the radio show today. I had Jack Marucci. He's the director of performance at LSU. He worked with Jaden Daniels, was a big part of incorporating virtual reality

into the Daniels development. He was really good, and I thought the conversation was really interesting. So if you have time this weekend, and you want to go listen to that. It was in the first hour of today's show. You can find it at the Team 980.com or by downloading the Odyssey app. All right.

Last thing before we get to Doc, Ben Johnson, offensive coordinator in Detroit, spoke, I think, yesterday at one of Detroit's OTA days. Several of the questions just had to do with him being such a huge and sought after head coaching candidate during the offseason, the first portion of the off season. And he talked about that, and I'm going to play a portion of it right now. This was kind of his thought process as people were pursuing him,

and as his season had come to an end right after a championship game meltdown in San Francisco. There's a lot of things that go into it. a lot of reasons and dynamics that play a part. Something that really resonates with me is, okay, eight openings this past year, what would you set the over under in three years? How many still have jobs? Yeah, I put the over under at four and a half.

I would say, I'd say, there's a good chance. Five of them are out of jobs in three years, you know? And so when I look at it from that perspective, if I get the opportunity to go down that road, it's about how do I get to that second contract? How do I set myself up that the stars need to align? I'm not going to do it just to do it. I love what I'm doing right now. Love it.

I love where I'm at. My family loves where we're at. love the people that we're doing it with. And so I'm not willing to go down the other path yet unless I feel really good about how it's going to unfold. It comes down to its ownership, it's staff, it's my vision of how I can make it work with how I know I am. Like part of me too, I love play calling. And so I would, if I took a head coaching job, would want to be a play calling head coach. well, there's a lot, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a lot of how much time there is during a week. And so, what's it gonna look like Monday through Sunday in that regard? And, and just want to make sure everything's nailed down and, and, there's an adjustment period for every, every, every person that takes that job, they're learning on the fly. Um, but I think the more that you have, uh, set, you know, and feel good about that gives you the best chance.

So I watched this entire Ben Johnson press conference, especially the part where there were multiple questions in a row about the pursuit of him during the off season. And I put a couple of those sound bites together. I didn't put everything in there because there was a lot. But I watched him. I watched his body language. And my biggest takeaway is that he is one of these people

that just overthinks. everything and suffers from, you know, what's the saying, paralysis by too much analysis or analysis paralysis or whatever it is. Like there's just a lot of, you know, analyzing everything. I mean, the over under that he set on the coaches that were hired, the eight coaches, that's essentially going to be the over under every time there are eight coaches hired. I mean, it's not going to change if he gets hired and takes a job next year or the year after. We just see that every single time.

I mean, seven, eight coaches hired three years later. The majority of them are gone. I just looked up the 2021, you know, three years ago, the coaches that got hired. Brandon Staley, gone. Urban Meyer, gone. Nick Siriani's still there. Dan Campbell still there. Arthur Smith gone.

Robert Sala's still there. David Cully, gone. So four out of the seven, gone, more than half. So, yeah, those odds are never going to change. Look, it sounds to me, too, like this is a guy that's just super comfortable where he is. You know, I don't think he's looking for like, you know, the second contract before he earns it. Like, you know, I don't think this was him saying, I just didn't get a good enough offer. I think he's just one of these people that he just overthinks it.

And by the way, he likes where he is. You know, his family likes where they are. He loves being an OC. He wants to be a play caller. He understands that, you know, being a play caller, you know, when you're a head coach, there's so much more responsibility and will you be able to do it as well? Look, one of the things that was said to me when the whole thing kind of, fell through with the interview that didn't happen when they were on the plane to go to

Detroit. Somebody said to me that essentially he's one of these guys that locks himself into the office on a Monday and just comes out on Wednesday morning with this genius game plan. And that that's what he likes. You know, he likes kind of having his own little area and he can kind of operate the way he wants to operate without having to worry about the whole team. He just may not be cut out to be a head coach, or at least not now. All right. Doc Walker next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Down to the final four in the NBA playoffs, guys. It's Minnesota and Dallas out west,

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All right with me right now is my good friend Richard Doc Walker. By the way, a belated happy birthday to you. Did you have a nice birthday last week or earlier this week? It was earlier this week. That ain't good, madam. I mean, I'm glad somebody told you and you've received. and that was really big of you. You've got much bigger fish to fry

getting to worry about anything with me. I'm just happy that you're back in town or back in the country. And I appreciate you taking these times off as you do because I get to work when you're out. So, you know, when's your next trip? May 28th, Tuesday was your birthday. And I... Yeah, my friends were all...

Chris Russell and Nell Nell. and Denton Day and, you know, all the gang. We all had together. Well, it was Denton Day's birthday as well. He has the exact same birthday. You know it. Oh, God. I asked him, I said, did you boss acknowledge you at all?

Yeah, I did. But anyway, I'll let that go. That's personal business. I'll stay out of that. You know, you were born in Cherry Point, North Carolina. Yes, USMC. USMC. So that was a base for your father?

Yeah, Cherry Point, North Carolina, the Bulldogs, the base there, Camp Lejeune. And Camp Pilgrillton is where he died at. He was stationed at El Toro, LTA, three tours of duty, and the whole nine hours. So the whole military road were on, so that's how I started. How long were you there? How old were you when you moved out west? Oh, maybe under two. It was not long.

I remember the ocean. I remember the grocery store. They had a chess. You would get your sodas. They were called soda pops then out of a chess. And it was, I remember this thing vividly. And it was cold and it was ice. And I remember there was a river.

you, we were on the street we lived on, you'd walk down about a quarter mile to, I guess, what is the Atlantic, but I just remember the sea, you could see, you know, ocean and, and it snowed. We would make, mom would make snow cones out of the snow off the, I remember the out, backyard or whatever it was, there was something attached. to it. They would steal and she would make they put

vanilla extract over it was like snow cones or that's real vivid in my memory that I can always remember that

not ice cream but they would make it and that's it and I had to be under two that's amazing what I have exact recall about that

gross general store on a corner and walking down to where this lake was my father's fishermen and those things I remember. I don't know how I remember it at that age, but that's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing that you have the memory of two years old. How many siblings do you,

how many siblings do you have? Three, brother and a sister. And are you the oldest? Yes, I am. You want to call me back and we can talk about this though we don't waste people's time. No, I listen to the number one podcast in America. I would have definitely. I do feel sensitive to you. your listeners. I would have definitely guessed you to be. They won't tell you because they're scared to you, but they'll say to me, you know, hey, you know, we, I'll look, I'll talk to him and I'll see if he will do that, you know, because they don't want to be, they're afraid of you. You know that, don't you? Yeah, I would have guessed that you would have been the oldest. And what's the difference in age between your brother and sister? 10 and 15, 10 years older than my brother,

15 older than my sister. Oh my God. What? Wow. Yeah. So you were really a big, big brother to them. Yeah, it's almost like a day. Yeah, you end up, it's a, you become more of a parent. It's like preparing you for being a parent when you're still a kid. Yeah.

So I can remember doing things as a babysitter that you don't even want to think about at that age. And it forces you to, but it makes you innovative. I learned that the prongs were used for more than just scooping ice out of a chair. You could do rinse diapers with them and I use a tub. Yeah, I thought you were going to say you used them in your form of discipline. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just cleaning diapers because there were no disposable. Right.

They had free disposable diaper. I'm pre-disposed. There's so many things that, and I always tease Zion, Willingham, because he's only 26. He and Toby, those young kids, young kids we get to work with. You know, there's so many things in life they've never seen. And when you double people's age and you don't, you have to get to this age I'm at before you can realize it.

But the kind of things that coach would tease us about because he knew we didn't know. We had seen it. When someone doubles you, they laugh you in life, you really don't get it. It's interesting, and I think that's why we enjoyed

when we could joke with coach, you know, and all the coaches, Morgan Wood, all the coaches that we've been, all kidding aside, we've been lucky enough to be able to shoot the crap around in our lives, lefty,

you know, Morgan, Gary, all those guys, because they saw things that we didn't see, and they would tell us about it. And those were the fascinating moments about how we learn the game that we love, all sports, but we hear it through those guys who did things we didn't see, and then we get a chance to translate it. And I learn that now as we, like didn't they,

my man, you know, my birth, birthday mate. Love that dude, man. And because, I mean, I pity for him. He's got the worst job in America, but I love it because... Because the person he's producing for is so difficult. Oh, my God. It didn't.

I said, one day, it's going to pay out for you. You just hang in there. But he's so... He's so passionate about it. And he... I mean, just a great dude, man. So we have a good time. It's like, in our world, when you get a chance to come visit us sometime, you're going to have some fun, too.

I know it's a lot for you. You don't have a time. You're really busy. You've got a big schedule. You've got a lot going off. Let me just, I want to ask you, were your brother and sister good athletes also? My brother was, yeah, he got full ride to U.H. Big Tommy actually recruited him.

U.S. University of Hawaii. of Hawaii. University of Hawaii. But he got recruited to A. State and Washington State and Cal. So he is a think he would consider himself a... What position did he play? He played a linebacker, play tight-in.

Yeah. And your sister? He walked and... No, she was not an athlete. Got it. Was your... She loves, she's a huge... WWE, I mean,

my mom who's still watching AEW I mean every time I'm over there it is AEW WW WW Smackdown Your mom's still watching that Oh my God

Yeah they're just like So I've been watching that I'm 50 years with her I saw Mil Moscarus Freddy Blassie I mean I go we go way A-stack Calhoun All of that stuff

Was through her that for a person who was not an athlete I've never been around somebody so into love sports you know Brett Farber's like her I mean good I mean not excuse me Aaron Rogers she's a

I mean Mark Murphy looked me up and got her and Aaron Rogers No she's a big Aaron Rogers fan Oh my God yeah ARA that's her guy man What about your father? he an athlete? He played baseball.

He had the Marines. That's what got me in the baseball. He was a baseball fanatic. That's why I was a Dodger nut because he was a giant guy. You know, most of them, I don't know with your kid, but you get into, I became a Dodger Dyer because they're the rival of a giant. It is just like now. I mean, my son, oh, yeah, I've got to ask you to.

Austin, he'll buy them. but he released two tickets for Celtics game two in Boston. You're asking me for that? Yeah. Yeah, no, no, he'll buy him, but I told him, I'll ask you. Yeah, right. He just needs to connect. He'll buy them.

Yeah, well, I'm... I said, I'll ask. They all ask me to ask you us. I'm not bothered, yeah. No, I go, they go. Austin knows. You know, the thing about it is that... Austin knows that you've got the contacts.

No, no, no, no. The thing about it is so cool. What? know that I kind of know you and they're like, hey, they go, dad, would you ask Mr. Shears? Can you stop for a second? No, I know. I'm serious. Were your, whenever it's a real big event, they'll ask me if I will ask you, I'll go look.

Were your parents, were your parents really into you at your sports when you were younger? Yeah. I mean, into me, into me. into watching. My mom worked. Yeah. Supportive and encouraging. My mom.

What kind of parents did you have? Yeah. My mom worked at Sunset Lilley. Yeah. 20 years after I left. Wow. 20 years after I left, she was still working snack bar. Our community at Santa, and Gary Templeton

ended up taking over the Little League. It's now Templeton, Lily. Wow. Because Gary Timberton, I grew up with Gary. Uh-huh. And so we had nine. pros from our, and again, I apologize to your listeners, and this is why I'm never going to do this again. You don't have to. Because every time I take the hit for this, because they're mad at me.

No, nobody's mad at. Because every time I come on, you want to hear about your life. They want to hear about you. They don't give a damn about this. You know what? You do. I do. No. Tell me. This is what you do to me. You said nine pros. You said nine pros. Out of that little league, there were nine pros? Or out of your high school? No, nine in our city, in our area, San Diego, California in our area. Nine. Who were there? Who were they?

The big. Do you remember? Billy Bolden, Gary, Tim. Anyone, look, you got the number one podcast in the Mid-Atlantic region. Can you stop doing this? No, I'm just telling you. I'm not doing it. Because every time you do this, you don't do this to anybody else for me.

Pretend that we're not recording. And they see me out in public. I'm the one that gets the brunner. pretend that we're not recording and... No, you didn't need to call me back. Because this is what they'll do is I'll just call you back and I'll be recording.

He'll hit me on my ex and they'll say God damn it when you're on. Why do you do this? Because you do this to me. Because I'm going to ask you something out. I'm never going to come on. I'm never going to come on. Oh my God. Hey, when you're going to come on with coach again?

Hey, man, I'm waiting. You know, he only brings me on with somebody as a, you know, doesn't show up or whatever somebody's late, I get to come on. And one thing about your people, I love them. Because, man, they'll get me like to be like to be on X. I'll be getting, man, I'll get blown up. That's why I love coming on. You know what?

You know what your people say all the time to me? Your people come up to me all the time and say, does he ever even ask you to come on his podcast? And I go, no, but it's okay. You know, at some point he might. We don't even, no, let me say something. The next time I'm on your podcast, I haven't been on your podcast in two years, at least two years. I can't ask you, do you go to come on my podcast?

Yes. Look, I don't ask corner ice me either. I don't ask you. Okay. Patreon.com slash Doc Walker for Doc's podcast where maybe I'll be on one day. Okay. You don't ask me, hey, what about Kevin? I go, get the fuck.

I'm not going to ask him to go. First of all, he should probably over and he's fucking playing golf. Okay. You think I'm going to ask him to come on a weekend show? You've got to be out of your mind. I'm not going to embarrass myself to do that.

I go, but no, it's just, that's funny. You want to. I'll tell you what. We'll move on from Santa Antip. California, all of the great athletes, including Doc Walker, that came out of the area. But there is something before we get to football talk that I do want to ask you about. And I know you hopefully will talk about this, because you were at UCLA, and you have talked to me in the past about how lucky you were to be, you know, a guy that would walk into Pauley Pavilion and watch

Wooden's practices. And Bill Walton passed away, obviously, earlier this week, and it's been a massive story in sports. And, you know, so many UCLA people telling stories. So I'm wondering if you have any stories. And first of all, did you, was your freshman year was... No, I missed him by year.

You missed him by year. That's what I thought. Okay. Yeah, I'm missing by year. But I was on the show on the weekends where you were, playing golf and Ryan, no, it was actually it was on Monday.

Yeah, it was Monday. On the day off and you were in Annapolis. No, I thought, I remember, I was in the south of France. You know, I was on my yacht. You were in South of France, right. On the yacht. And so I was on Ryan Clary. Yeah. And so I was

seven for Grant Danny. And so he announced it. He said, well, on the fact. So, it took my breath away and I thought wait a me he's not sitting there what do you mean he died with car wreck playing right so I'm on social media and I'm scanning

and I go we went to commercial break and so I called Frank Dynamite Stevens my brewing my dog on the West Coast he's doing the NIO program at UCLA now he goes I haven't heard anything so I thought

okay it was bad information and so I calmed down because it took my breath away. About four minutes later, everybody else, the whole internet blows up. And it was true. So Clary, Ryan,

Stalian, he dominated. I don't know how he got it, but he got it. And at that point, just like with coach, you know, just like with everybody that it has happened with,

you just go immediately have to flip from, sad to celebration. I refuse to not just, I have to celebrate it because that's what I know he'd want. And he was that professing. I've just never seen somebody so positive. And then again, he treated everybody.

I mean, you know, everybody with you with coach. It's like your people now. They see me with you. Then they treat me different. It's like I got the secret handshake because I'm with you. Did you ever meet him? Did you know him? Yeah, meet him.

Oh, heck yes. Okay, tell us. I've just had, I've had it again, not to bore your audience, but he was on campus. First of all, I went to Coach Wooden. I was crazy enough. And you know, you know me well enough to know that. just like with Morgan, and just like with Gary, and like with any legendary coach.

With Flint Hill, I don't think there's one of them around here that I have met or did they have conversations or interviewed on Prove. I have to get to anybody that's in the coaching rank and sit down and discuss. how and why. Because to me, that is as exciting as a teenager meeting a rock star. Because to me, I'm always chasing that.

How do you win consistently? What separates? Because most people are terrible at it. Right. Most people are horrible at leadership, and most people never win. And most people don't even try now, because now you don't have to.

You can just make so much money losing and failing then now with analytics, you can just sound smart and everybody buys into it. And you can be the biggest bank robber. Now it's the easiest ever because now so few people actually understand it. Right. And so it's the Wild Wild West now. So when I find somebody that has that unique ability to make it work,

I lose my mind over it. And I coach with, I ask coach, you need to say, yeah, you can come to practice. and I've told the story a million times, and I know your people hate it because you force me to do this crap every stinking time. John Wooden allowed you to come into practice. Yeah, I asked him, and he said yes, as long as you don't make noise, blah, blah, blah.

And I couldn't understand why he wouldn't hide in this. And so the principles and about the pyramid of success, and I met Bill, and to see that he was so approachable as where Kareem wasn't bad guy, but was not like Bill. And so he was very, he was just different guy, but could have crushed me, but didn't, because I approached him in a different way, working for George and the sports machine. And it was a different circumstance because I had to go deal with him following a rare loss in a playoff situation.

and, you know, that's a little bit uncomfortable, but unless he was at least gave you that Bruin pass. Right. To at least interview him. Was that when he was in Boston? No. No, in Los Angeles. Okay.

And so these guys, at least they accepted the fact that they understood that if you were part of that thing that they had created, they'd give you the benefit of that. But Bill just took it to a different level, and they had these principles. And I'm on campus with Marcus. My group was Marcus, Johnson, Richard, Washington, and these guys, and they were,

it was just seeing them on campus, and I've told you before in your audience, which is probably so sick of hearing this. Again, they could throw up in their mouth. But these guys had pets. Now, we were broke. Right. I mean, getting a fat burger in college was like filet mignon.

And these dudes had animals. They had Afghans. They had the animals. So how can you have a pet when you're starving, per se? If Westwood is not a place. What's that guy's name? The big funder for wooden? I don't know what you're talking about.

But that's a rumor. You're just spreading a rumor. You don't know who you're talking about. But at any rate, you get the drift of it. Yeah. It was just like with Gary's run, you know, just like with anybody's run in any sport, there's a different air about it. You had the lacrosse coach on Sam Gilbert.

At Maryland, and I love that. And because that's a really high-profile program, and it's a big-time status deal. It makes a difference. You know what that's like. and that just was cool and Bill represented everything hearing him

through the Pac-12 Conference of Champions and you know come on with the tie-dye shirt and Grateful Dead and blah blah blah and it wasn't the act just like Charles Barkley

Charles Barkley is a gift he's a gift to all of us because most people aren't secure enough to be that open and share themselves and their personality with the general public.

So it was a gift, and it was authentic. And then because of Coach Thompson, we were privy to Final Fours and NCAA championships and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Bill's always there. And you always get that same guy that was just true to the core. So it kicked me, man.

It really would set me back, but I was just lucky enough that had over a dozen or so conversations with him and I just interviewed I'm like you how you treat me if I treated him

when it came to wood just trying to get every morsel I could about why what did he do was this stuff real and I did that with all the guys

that played for John and every guy he said pretty much to the teeth and it was just real and I just can't get enough of it because I'm trying to figure out the combination of why it worked in. Did you love hoops? Did you love hoops like when you were in college or in high school? Yeah, oh, love it. We come home from high school from parties to see UCLA play games because

again, you know, we had no BCR. There was no, you had to see it. You had to watch it live, yeah. You had to watch it live. And it was disappointment to everything, the attention to, you had to see it. while it happened, and to have that kind of draw for kids, teenagers, to be that involved in watching a streak. And you don't understand this unless you're in the thralls of it, that you're leaving parties to see that they win again. Yeah.

And it's just sweeping. And, you know, Southern Cal, which you've really got to be, that's why the rumors about West Coast sports is so true. you either in first place or you're in last place because to capture the people's attention out west with so many options you got to win big you got to be really good

or they just stop paying attention to you you know you're now with kids carpenter Michigan and all the Midwest people they got nothing else to do everything's a big thing out west you had plenty to do you know you got to be you got to be hot female or a first place team

or you got to No eyeball. Are you not allowed as a UCLA alum to talk about Sam Gilbert? That. You know who he is. I'm just curious. Is that just a UCLA thing? Is that a UCLA family thing where you just...

I don't acknowledge one of the biggest boosters in the history of college sports? Really? No, I've heard the name. The name is not foreign to me. I've heard a name. Did, did, were you incented to go to UCLA? Or was he just a basketball guy? You're not talking.

I don't know. Did you? Again, I've never. One more thing. And then we're going to talk about your visits out to OTAs. I've never met him. Did you, you played football, you played baseball, you ran track. But you did not play basketball.

You didn't play basketball in high school, right? Yeah, I did. I got, I had a need, my only surgery was because of playing basketball. hurt my knee and play a basketball. But again, nobody cares about that. Okay. Well, I... It's a sore story because I got hurt my knee.

No, I love hoops. But you know, at school, it's amazing. That place was very good at a lot of things. But basketball, it wasn't... We didn't win a championship in basketball. We didn't track. We got really good in football. No, it didn't happen.

I don't... That was straight. It became good, but no, that was not a high watermark. for our high school. Believe it or not, hoops wasn't big. His baseball was so so powerful that it was number one. All right. Let's get to some Washington football team talk, and we will do it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree, and with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast. The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled Uni-F-Y-D Healing. It doesn't matter if you're a

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mention my name and they'll take really good care of you. All right, we continue with Doc. All right, from what you've seen, tell me what you like about the new group and the players. We'll get into Jaden Daniels specifically here in a moment or two. But give me the overall Doc vibe on the team so far from what you've seen. I've seen nothing other than the head coach like him a lot. I've seen the players. I did a charitable event with them at a high school,

like the guys. And that's all I care to see, because the only interest I have in tackle football is seeing them in full pads in the competitive environment. That's the only thing I'm interested in. Right. I know. But, see, you wanted to not talk about yourself in the last segment,

and you wanted to talk about the things that people want. wanted to talk about, like the football team. Oh, no, I like him. I'm high on that. But what do you want me to do? The guy won the Heismian Trophy. Am I supposed to be excited that he can throw a ball in practice? I know he can throw.

I saw him in games. He's really good. And I like, I like, I'm positive about everything that I've heard or seen to this point. They're on schedule. Character part. Yes, the guys, I watch them, but do these people really care? my evaluation about how sensitive they are around young kids, which I was highly encouraged by,

do our listeners care about that? I can give you that, if you like, I don't think they care. But if you think they do, what's been your impression so far of Dan Quinn? I was high on Dan Quinn before they hired him, and I was not high on the hot eye coordinator. the guy that reminds me of the coordinator in New England. And he may end up being much better than that guy that's fired everywhere he's gone, or the guy that the Jets brought from Denver is the caddy for the quarterback. I just think that once you fail, his failure was in the Super Bowl.

If that's your form of failure, I'll take it. Right. You know, and these idiots that are, and I'm sorry, they're not idiots. They don't know what they don't know. They're just reading PFF and FUC and every other jackass that's in the math. It's convinced these people that they now have a base of knowledge. And they do in media and on radio shows and TV shows. But it doesn't change their arc when it comes to the physical part of football.

It's just different. And up until contact, you meet contact, your theories are good. But then once that can't cross that line. And that's the one thing. No mathematician, I don't care where you go, you'll never be able to stick that equation out. You've got, you are really, today you came in, and for whatever reason, these, and I'm with you on a lot of this, the, the, the, the analytics. people that just sit there and read numbers drives me nuts too. No, I'm not

mad at them. But what sparked this today? No, no, no. You get me wrong. I think Leonas is a change. And he's the smartest one out of all of them. Is he? Because you convince people to come to your building, your product is rotten,

and you don't win nothing. And yet people are happy. Because they can go in and they can do over and unders. And they can even bet in the middle of the game that you're going to lose. It's what you're going to lose by. And they bought into it. It's the ingenious. Ingenious. And I go, I'm not mad at it. It's futures. And you can do the over and under. Look, I think it's the most brilliant thing ever been created in athletics. Because

if it was just winning and losing, half the thing is over before it starts. How boring is that? but if you can take the bottom half, which is most of it, almost 70% of it, and keep that thing going, and then the fantasy part, which is my favorite. Now we don't care about none of it. Right. Just care about your players. All right, we get it. We don't care.

We get it. Now you don't. Now you don't want to talk now. Now you don't want to talk. Look, I'm not talking about it. I don't play fantasy football. That stuff. Oh, you do.

Oh, my God. You've always misread me. You make a fortune off of them. You have... You're peddling these guys. You have no idea. You're the biggest peddler of all this crap going. And I'm at it.

Gambling, yes. It's a great market. Fantasy football, no. Fantasy football has never been for me. Not the NIL. Now the NIL. It's going to even get merch here. It's going to go from fantasy then I know. This is perfect.

Okay. I want to talk about the football team with you. So how would you suggest we do that? Because you're right. They have not yet played a game. They haven't had a practice in full pad yet. We all understand this. So let's talk about just the people that you've met and their first impressions on you.

Very impressed. Because you really do need good character people to be successful in any business. They have, and I watch them. In my interaction with the rookies at an elementary school and the social environment, A-plus, they have good character guys that have personalities. If you could spend time with young people, and they weren't doing it like they're getting paid, they were genuinely playing catch and talking to. And I've watched them for over two hours.

I go, okay, good people. No jerks. I got a jerk monitor. And I look now, not a jerk in the group. Guys genuinely happy. And you can remember I was once a rookie. And I know how it is to be dumb as dirt. And it would be outside of your environment.

They got a really good mix of people. And plus the brand new organization. Different people. This whole program has been good. gutted. So I don't even know most of the people. So I'm in a different space. I'm very comfortable. I'm an outsider not looking in. It's something that I'm, you know, familiar with. And I'm really given them a thumbs up. It's a really clean program. And I don't sense, usually I can smell the last group just had a horrible odor about it. That was the biggest

bunch of bullshit that I've ever been around. But this group here, I'm really in press. GM, all the people are bringing in, it's a really, um, really good group. I like this group. I'd be surprised if this group fails. I'll say that early on. My gut feeling is that, now somebody might beat them. I'll score them, but I don't think they're going to fail miserably like that last

group. This is a group that has really good intentions. and if the people stay healthy, I think they're going to be pretty, pretty hard to beat. You were with me, of the quarterbacks in the draft, Jaden Daniels was the one that impressed you the most, right? Yep, yep. So I'm not going to ask you because you haven't seen them in pads.

Nobody has. But overall, you know, you've made comments about people before walking around that haven't been in pads. You've said, you know, they look pretty good. They look the part. You know, that he's bigger than I thought, or he's, he's skinnier than I thought. So just your physical observation of Jaden Daniels for the first time was what? Well, he's not bigger enough.

He's just what I thought he was. He's slender. He's small. He's slender. See, I think that the kid in Baltimore. Lamar Jackson. It's slender. He's real fit compared to, to, uh, Houdini in Baltimore.

Yeah. But it's a concern if he would have taken a free runner and a hit, but hell he took him, I saw him get hit at least three times in college. They would have taken an average civilian out completely. He's been his size his whole life, so he's used to it. Yeah. He didn't just become his side, and he's actually going to get bigger as he goes and stronger and all that. I'm concerned like any parent would be. My God, it looks like it'd be scary, but he'll be all right.

The left tackle, real athletic kid, as I saw him at TCU. I had a good friend and with TCU when his parents allowed me to talk with him. And so he's been a big game. Casey says hello. Well, no, no, no. I'm getting personal. Leave that kids private life alone. There's, but he, he loves it when you're on the show.

All my boys do. They ask, well, they ask all the time. They do. Why isn't he on more? And I said, it's hard to ask him a lot. He's incredibly important and busy. You should not lie to your audience. Really.

It's true. You should not lie to you. Because Ben, see, you just think about all your people that work for you, I'm close at all. Yeah, so I'm close with all of them. Did you know that Lamar Jackson has lost 20 pounds in this offseason? Yes, yes. I mean, he doesn't need to be any faster.

Well, no, but when you lose the way they lost, that's the most gut-wrenching disappointment of 2023, 24, when they lost. Yeah. Because they were the best team in America, in the world. The best doesn't always win. Kansas City won it all, but to a mute kid, convinced me that the Ravens didn't have the best. It doesn't matter. But their offensive coordinator, I mean, the fact that he's still alive shows you that we're in a really safe environment.

I mean, it's just you can't convince me. And now the teams have never come back the same. that defense that was number one they lost six people off that things changed like the lion and the best story was the lion I liken this program here more like

the lion and what does it take the dynamic personality leaders got to be dynamic we've gone now from a monk to a dynamic personality and that's the difference do you remember

Do you remember how when they lost to the lions after the lions had lost like 20-something games in a row? No, don't do it. We were on the air. That was embarrassing. You were

mortified. You didn't want anything to do with them. Clay Cull was calling me on the, we had flip phone during that time. And he was blowing my phone up. I was, don't forget, that's the same year we lost the Bengals.

So the two worst franchise were the Bengals and the Lion. We lost them both of them. And that was the lowest I've ever felt. And the thing that we've actually exceeded that. That was the first low. That Zorn stretch, that was the first time I really felt like, Oh, God. We don't have a chance.

Yeah. We didn't know. Little did we know. Yeah. There was a further drop ahead. And then we'd be, we didn't think the Zorn thing I thought, there's nobody, we can't hire any worse. This is the worst they'll ever be. And I'll be doggone.

No. No. Zorn was the worst. No. In terms, yes, he was. He had no. No, he wasn't. They hired.

him to be the offensive coordinator. You got to be kidding me. This last group, come on, man. This dude had no idea what was going on. We're not in? We're out? Come on.

No, no, no. What we just saw? Well, I know you can't say it. What I just witnessed? No, that's the worst of everything. It was shortly after he had, you know, beaten cancer, Ron Rivera. Yeah.

And they were doing the whole cancer thing before one of the games. You texted me. And you said, these motherfuckers aren't ready to play a game. They're trotting around here talking about the... He said, that's for the week, during the week. And it was all right before the game. And you said, we got no shot today. And I think they lost big.

Yeah. Yeah, no, but because they were... First of all, this guy wasn't prepared to be in charge of anything, and he was in charge of everything. That's when you knew that the guy that hired him was Dumber's dirt, because you can't have two blind. That was a blind lead to blind. I've never seen anything in business that bad before or poorly operated.

And that's why I have so much admiration for this new group that they held on that law to get the number two pick in the draft. They better man than me. I could have never done that. I could have never done what. I didn't understand what you just said. They held on with this group.

Oh, oh, oh, so that they would get the number two pick in the draft. The second pick. That's the only way they could assure you to get it. Yeah, right. Yeah, because. Yeah, they probably would have gotten it anyway. It wasn't like the staff was any good. No, no, no.

you're talking about? No way. If they put that kid, that backup in, do you know what you if they put Jacoby Bressett in earlier? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Come on, man. He came in and changed everything. They

had to actually work their butts off to pull this thing off. But to have the, you know what, to stay true to the program. So if this ultimately works... You could have never done it, and they would have ended up with the fifth pick, and they would have had to take a receiver.

Exactly. All right. Exactly. What else? Because I've got rid of these people, the ink wouldn't have been dry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It would have been dirty. How good was Dave Myers? Dave Myers at UCLA? Yeah. Dave Myers is a basketball player. Yes. Was he playing for Coach Wood? You know, the very first year.

Of your, of you at UCLA, they won the national championship. It was Wooden's final year. Yeah. Wouldn't Dave Myers the best player on that team, or was it Marcus Johnson? I think it was Markets. Well, they're both damn good, but Marcus was. Dave Myers led the team in scoring and in rebounds that year, just, you know. Yeah, yeah.

I know, but I'm just telling you who you had to stop, but they were both good. But, no, that was a hell of a team, man. They were all damn good. I mean, I don't know. Did they lose a game? They might have lost. Yeah, they lost some games, but they won the national championship. It was Wooden's final game, and they beat Kentucky.

And do you know who was on that Kentucky team? Oh, yeah, you know, Kevin Grevy. Kevin Grevy. He's all right now and asking, do I know. Kevin Grevy. To this day, I never let him forget it. That was one of the most unique days. I'll never forget it because when John,

John McKay did the same thing, he tried to do the same thing, our last game in college. It didn't work out for him because he announced he was retiring, and we beat the dog manure out of him anyway. But John did it, and it worked. Kentucky had a monster. Yeah. Kevin's team was really good.

He had 34 and was the leading scorer in the national championship game. that year. Yeah. But John said that was up, and that was when streaking for you, for those of you, too young to remember that. It was in the 70s was the decade of streaking.

Yeah, it was streaking. Did you ever streak? I'd never break the law, Kevin. It was not legal. All right. This was fun. I love doing this with you, and it's always such an honor to have you on the show, and when you're available and can do it, it's a thrill for me.

I've been on it over a month. Thrill for me to have you back on. All right, when are you on? Everybody else is on regularly, but me. See you. Thanks for doing this. All right, man. Later.

The incomparable Richard Doc Walker. At Rick Doc Walker on X on Twitter. His podcast with Sali is available at Patreon. patreon.com slash doc Walker. All right, we are done for the day. Have a great weekend back on Monday.