The Kevin Sheehan Show - Ben Johnson Staying In Detroit!

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Kevin and Thom today with plenty on the breaking news that Lions' OC Ben Johnson is staying in Detroit. They discussed the reasons why and what's next for Washington. More on both the AFC and NFC Championship games as well. And who was the Commanders' 2023 season MVP? The boys gave their answers to that to finish up the show.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right. Tommy is here. I am here, and the news just broke within the hour. Ben Johnson is staying in Detroit, where he will remain Detroit's offensive coordinator.

Washington is not getting what many reported as their number, one target Detroit offensive coordinator Ben Johnson. The show today presented by, as always, Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to WindowNation.com. Mention my name. They'll take really good care of you. So let me, Tommy, just update everybody as we sit here and record the podcast at 145 today, Tuesday, January 30th.

By the way, the 41-year anniversary of Super 1.4. Super Bowl 17. Rigo's run, 41 years ago today. So Tom Pellasaro first broke the news that Ben Johnson was staying in Detroit. It happened actually right at the end of my radio show. But let me just update everybody on where they are in the interview process. So yesterday they interviewed for the first time in person, Mike McDonald, the defensive coordinator of the Baltimore Ravens, Anthony Weaver, the DeLine, coach in Baltimore, who also has an associate head coach title.

This morning here in Washington, for the second time they interviewed Dan Quinn, defensive coordinator in Dallas. And then they hopped on a plane and they went to Detroit with the expectation of interviewing in person for the first time, Ben Johnson, along with defensive coordinator in Detroit, Aaron Glenn. Before they got onto the plane to go to Detroit, Ben Johnson told both Washington and Seattle, the two teams still with head coach openings, that he would be staying in Detroit. So right now, this appears to be the list of potential head coaches. We'll get to our surprise over Ben Johnson staying in Detroit, which I think is the best.

big surprise. It had been certainly brought to everybody's attention over the last 24 to 36 hours that Ben Johnson was not a total done deal. But Aaron Glenn, who they're interviewing, the defensive coordinator in Detroit, Dan Quinn, the defensive coordinator in Dallas, Anthony Weaver, and Mike McDonald in Baltimore, Bobby Sloick, who they had an initial interview back on January 21st, And then they had a second interview with Slowick on January 23rd a week ago. And then, of course, they also did interview Eric Bienemy, who is currently under contract and on the staff as the team's offensive coordinator and assistant head coach. They have not interviewed Mike Vrable. They have not shown, per anybody's, reporting, any interest in Bill Belichick.

So let's start Tommy with, it is surprising news. No one would tell you that they saw Ben Johnson staying in Detroit. Adam Schaefter suggested on McAfee yesterday, don't be surprised if Quinn doesn't end up in Seattle or Johnson doesn't end up in Washington or at least one of those two things doesn't happen. I don't know that Adam Schaefter knew that Ben Johnson was going to stay in Detroit. That's a stunner to me and a disappointment because I was actually interested and excited to a certain degree about Ben Johnson, not knowing other than what everybody else knows, and that is he's a good offensive coordinator,

about what kind of leader or head coach he would be. But yeah, I am very surprised he's staying in Detroit. Okay. Does this mean that the search committee failed? I don't know because we don't know for sure that that was their number one choice. Well, they were going back for a second visit. As they've had with now five others. I know.

But they were flying back to Detroit for a second visit. They were obviously interested. One of the reason that we should discuss right here is there's a narrative already forming out there that he priced himself out of the market. Yep. Yeah. That Josina Anderson reported a couple, about a week ago, I think. Yep. That his asking price might be up to $15 million, and that was turning teams off.

But why would they bother to make a second trip out to Detroit to talk to them if they were already turned off by the price? Right. No, that's a very good point. And by the way, Adam Schaefter also reported. that, well, he just actually just tweeted something else. But he said about an hour ago, Ben Johnson was not the head coaching lock that people thought. His asking price spooked some teams per sources.

He just tweeted out, commanders officials were on route to Detroit for a meeting with Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn when they got word that Johnson was staying with the Lions per sources. While the abrupt pivot by Johnson was considered surprising by several league sources, he was not considered a lock for the commander's job despite his strong reputation as a coordinator and a loyal coach. The commander's leadership team remains eager to meet with the respected Glenn,

who is one of several candidates the team is expected to consider for its head coaching vacancy. But go ahead, continue. Okay, so I still think he was a desirable candidate for Washington. So do we believe that this was his decision and not that the teens begged off because he caused too much? Well, it's one of three things, right? It is him passing on Washington and Seattle because he didn't think the opportunities were good enough for him there. It's number two, Washington and Seattle both passing on him not being overly impressed overall compared to some of the other. candidate. Seattle did meet with him

last night, according to reports. Washington never got the second interview with him. Or thirdly, is it just that he really wants to stay in Detroit for a multitude of reasons, but perhaps

he just doesn't think that he's ready yet? Can I just let you know something because I made a couple of calls before we started to, you know, record the podcast? Okay. And in talking to a couple of people, everybody was surprised to a certain degree, but this is what the common theme was in the multiple people that I talked to about this news.

They suggested that more likely than not, because I hit him with, well, it's one of three things. He didn't want us in Seattle. We didn't want him. Or he just didn't want to leave Detroit for whatever the reasons were. And I think it's the third bucket. I think he didn't want to leave Detroit. I don't know that he feels he's ready to do this. What I learned from a couple of the calls is that Dan Campbell is a big time alpha, as everybody would certainly expect in watching him.

He is the communicator. He is the motivator. Somebody said he's not just the biggest voice in the room. He is the room. And then the close second to being the room is Aaron Glenn. Ben's been the more reserved, thoughtful, strategic, focused much more on his responsibility, loves sort of shutting the door and coming out on Wednesday with an offensive game plan to beat the Rams or to beat the Bears or the Vikings.

and that, you know, with media, he's not so comfortable. Although Tommy, I went back and watched his whole press conference, and I played some of that on the podcast yesterday. He seemed comfortable to me. So my guess is that he just decided he wasn't ready yet. Now, what they're saying and what's being reported by some is that he wants to win a Super Bowl in Detroit before he becomes a head coach. Really?

I mean, okay. I think it could be both of those things that he could want to win a Super Bowl with the people that he's been with and see this thing through and that he also maybe looks around the room that he's in and says, I'm not quite them yet. I might get there at some point, but I'm not comfortable.

Remember, these are people too. He's 37 years old. It's very possible he's like, I don't want to be a head coach right now. I don't want to be the media guy. I don't want to be the discipline guy. I don't want to be the communicator guy. I don't want to be the responsibility guy. I'm not saying that he's not capable of doing it.

But not everybody's ready for that right away. So that would be my guess, that it wasn't about Washington not wanting him or him not wanting Washington or Seattle, but maybe truly that he just wants to stay there because perhaps he's just not ready yet. But there's stories out there about the money. Maybe that had something to do with it too. Maybe it was like, sweetheart, I'll take the money, the $15 million a year. If somebody gets to that, I'll go do it.

I promise you. You know, to wife and significant other. He's married, I think, and has kids. What do you think? You know, if he's smart as he seems to be, he also must be smart enough to know that opportunities disappear. Right. New candidates become available.

Plans for grandiose, plans for success in the future sometimes become derailed quickly. You know, if you're the hot candidate today, there's circumstances that are going to be beyond your control that might make you not to hot. candidate tomorrow. Yes. I mean, you got, you know, you've got to be smart enough to know that. And I think he is. And to be in demand to have two franchises who, you know, the Seattle, no one would argue that that's not a great situation,

although their ownership is kind of up in the air because of the Allen family supposedly, you know, at some point soon selling that team. I don't think that's a big deal. And here in Washington, it's become an attractive position because of the new ownership, because of the new general manager. You know, I don't think they'd be making these trips. If Adam Peters didn't think he wanted, then to be his head coach. But again...

I don't know what to think. But again, it takes two. By the way, your first point is such a good one. I mean, I'm sure people around Ben Johnson said, just understand that, you know, we could have, you know, injuries galore next year, go five and 12, and three other teams with coordinators that weren't expected to be good, won 11 games, and they're the hot guys next year.

You're 100% right about that. And by the way, not taking a gig two straight years might actually hurt him in the long run in the way he's perceived because if it is that he's not ready in his own mind, he's not confident enough to do it in his own mind, that's not great, especially if you end up with other options. But I guess what I would say to you is it's very possible that he was their favorite guy or one of their two or three leading candidates. But they, you know, he doesn't want to do it right now. They can't control that. It takes two to tango. Okay. Let's take your, I'll tell you my situation, my experience over the years.

if I was offered, there's not too many jobs in the newspaper business that if they had been offered to me, I wouldn't have said no to. I mean, prestigious jobs, like a city editor or a foreign correspondent or something like that, and then worried about whether I could do the job. you know there's a certain personality that comes with i can do this i'll figure it out i know that and i don't those those are alphas maybe he doesn't have that personality maybe he doesn't because if your point if what you were about to go down the path of was this is a job that just doesn't fit the description of one you can't turn down I think that's an answer that's possible already. Now, it's much more attractive than it's ever been.

And for an offensive guy, I mean, it's as clean of a slate as you'll ever have. I mean, you've got the number two pick in the draft. You've got not the quarterback of your choice, if it's Caleb Williams, and he goes number one. But, you know, you're going to have a chance to get that quarterback. You're going to have a chance to add a lot of other talent around the quarterback via free agency and via the draft, there's not going to be a ton of pressure to go to the playoffs the first year. These guys are all long-term thinkers that you're going to work for. They've made that very, very clear since the moment they took over the team in July.

And so, yeah, that's... And he's also got to be smart enough to know that, I'm staying to to hope to try and win another Super Bowl there's so much out of your control beyond that I mean you know you just you just can work harder next year

have your players play better and think you're going to win the Super Bowl there's a lot of shit that goes on that's going to get in the way so he can't be that stupid to think that you know we're going to stay here and we're going to win a Super Bowl damn it and that's why I'm staying

here that's a lot it'll get in the way of that. Yeah, I think the first report is that he wants to stay to win a Super Bowl in Detroit. That's a great answer for him with Detroit. Yes. You know, it's a great answer for him for everybody in Detroit. But I think it's, and I'm just, you know, we're sitting here and we're seeing, you know,

people on the beat nationally, locally, itself. etc. continue to add to this story. I think that if he just felt he wasn't ready yet to be the alpha, to be the the guy, you're not going to say that. I'm not ready yet. You're going to say, I'm staying to win the Super Bowl. I mean, he must have, look, he turned down opportunities to be interviewed last year. Right. So obviously, he had this whole year of knowing that he had some, he had reached a level in this league where he was desirable as a head coach.

So this isn't something that just popped into his head. And if he's had a year to stew on this and still doesn't think he's ready to be a head coach, and I don't know if he's ever going to be. Tom, this is not, this is not. this may not be the best look for him with the other 31 teams that might have a coaching vacancy next year. It's true because no one's been hotter as an offensive coordinator in a hiring and offensive coordinator era than Ben Johnson's been this year. Yes. Yes. And so, you know, he had all the leverage in the work.

world, and if he doesn't want to take advantage of it, you know, again, everybody's different. Maybe he's just not right now in his own mind comfortable with being the guy. Now, a lot of people would say, well, 10 to 12 million a year would get me comfortable really quickly. But, by the way, I would assume maybe he got this last year. I would assume Detroit's going to pay him more money to stay. Yeah, I would think so. Because if he doesn't leverage this into a raise with Detroit,

then you've got to question his intelligence. Yeah, that's got to be on the table. There's got to be more money coming in his pocket. But, you know, now, I mean, just for my own entertainment purposes, I've been trying to think of, first of all, let's not get to that. Let's start with some serious, continue with some serious stuff here. I can't believe they still haven't talked to Mike Ravel, or who has talked to Mike Brable? As anyone?

Yeah, but not Seattle or Washington. The two opportunities that exist, you know, it makes me wonder about the whole Andy Reid thing that we talked about last week. I just wonder if like Rabel is sitting there waiting for Kansas City or maybe Belichick. Again, I think it would be I just can't imagine Belichick would take Kansas City if Andy Reed leaves.

You know, you had the analogy last week. He's not Barry Switzer. You know, he's not, he's not the guy replacing the guy. He is the guy. Right. But I could see Vrable replacing, and by the way, you know, yeah, I could see Vrable doing that. But the Vrable thing is, no doubt, is so interesting.

I don't get it. I've been such a fan from afar of Vrable for a while now. He's not 70. He's 48. I know. I don't understand it unless he has sent the word out that he's not interested. interested in these offers right now. Or maybe he wanted, you know, more control.

You know, there was the issue with the GM in Tennessee who left and, you know, and maybe just, you know, the teams that were out there just aren't looking to give anybody except for the Chargers anybody control. You know, that's part of it too. But, like, I, um, I, um, Look, the question now, Ben Johnson's not going to be a head coach next with Washington. He's not going to be a head coach in the NFL. I think we've covered that ground.

I personally believe that this is, you know, this is a Ben Johnson doesn't want to be a head coach right now thing. And by the way, those kinds of vibes would make Washington and Seattle perhaps back off a little bit from being, from aggressively pursuing somebody. You don't want to pursue somebody that is unsure about whether or not they want to be a head coach right now, if that's the case. So, you know, it might be a little bit on Washington's part, too. It may be why, you know, I mean, I think that this is a group that with the search committee is going to over-interview.

They're going to err on the side of over-interviewing. but I go back to what Adam Peters said as we kind of move the conversation towards, okay, well, where do they go now? I wouldn't describe the mode they're in right now as being shocked and scrambling for something because I don't know, in reading everybody that's tweeting out now, I don't know that they thought it was a lock all along. The fact that Adam Schaefter suggested it here over the last couple of days tells you that the teams probably told him they don't think it's a lock that they end up getting Ben Johnson

for whatever the reason or that Ben Johnson's the guy. So who is the guy? Two weeks ago, I was told Ben Quinn interviews very well. Dan Quinn. What did I say? Ben. You know why I said Ben Quinn? Because everybody has one of these stories, I'm sure, and I have a feeling that we have talked about this before, about somebody when you were young who died at a very young age. Ben Quinn was headed to Virginia Tech from Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda on a football scholarship.

He was an all-met football player, and he was killed in a car accident on River Road. Now, that was my, as I was entering Whitman for my sophomore year, And that's why I just said the name. It just was in the recesses of my mind. Didn't we do that one day on radio where we talked about? Yeah, we did. Everybody had a story. What was your story? I don't remember if I had a story, but you definitely did.

He was one. We also had a girl in my class who was killed in a car accident as well. Actually, she was on a motorcycle and was killed. Okay. So who's next? Dan Quinn left D.C. this morning. There were pictures of him at the airport flying out of town after a second interview. They're in Detroit right now. There was no reason for him to stay if the search committee was all headed to Detroit to interview Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn. And again, as Schaefter said, they were en route to Detroit when Ben Johnson, you know, did he call him? Did he text him? What did he do? I hope he handled. it professionally. Because that would be another thing that would stick with any, you know, organization. But they're going through with their interview with Aaron Glenn, who's been a defensive

coordinator in Detroit and apparently has got tremendous communication and leadership abilities. I'm going to guess Sloak's been interviewed twice. Sloak's the only offensive guy on the list right now. I guess Eric Bianamy is an offensive guy. Sorry. I forgot to mention Eric Bienemy is an offensive option. There's people out there on social media right now. People who cover this team who think that it would be a good idea now to just promote Bianemy and wait until next year. Tell me, tell me who that is. I can't do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to embarrass them. Okay. Again, I'll stick with what I've been.

saying for a while. That would be an all-time stunner. For everybody that has had any communication with anybody from the team, I'm talking about all the people on the beat, most of the people on the beat, I would now say, and others that communicate with people in Ashburn, it would shock and everybody if he were back as an offensive coordinator, let alone the head coach. Now, What's interesting is if they go Mike McDonald or they go Dan Quinn, you know, you're, you know, Vrable, by the way, Tommy, Arthur Smith became the offensive coordinator in Pittsburgh today. And Arthur Smith was Vrable's guy in Tennessee before he got the head coaching job in Atlanta. So, all right, let's stick with head coach. I think it's McDonald or Quinn.

I mean, McDonald's. McDonald is the guy that has schemed up ways to stop the Shanahan schemes. I mean, what he did to Kyle Shanahan on Christmas night, McDonald's been an impressive coordinator, but I don't know anything about him as a potential head coach. What if he says, I'm staying in Baltimore to see this thing through to win a Super Bowl? I think it's McDonald or Quinn is my guess. I'm not going to discount Aaron Glenn because I have a feeling that Glenn's one of these guys, too,

that is going to exhibit leadership ability. And it's something that Adam Peters mentioned in his introductory thing. He wants, you know, a leader. I mean, and by the way, maybe Ben Johnson just isn't that quite yet. Not a natural one yet. And again, my information was he was far from the alpha there. That was Campbell and Glenn in that building. He's cerebral.

Okay. More cerebral. My, uh, well, Joe Gibbs was cerebral. Yeah. You know, let's not forget that. No, I'm not saying that that makes, means you don't. I know. Yeah.

Yeah. But, uh, I'm so pulling for Dan Quinn, because that's the pick that would make everybody's head explode out there who, who work. convinced, first of all, that Ben Johnson not was going to be the next coach, but was going to be a great head coach that

didn't know, that had no idea other than what he did as an offensive coordinator, and we're convinced that he'd be a great head coach. And that's part of the same segment that thinks, if you don't go young OC, you're dead. You know,

you're just dead in the water. And if you go defensive retread coach nightmare scenario nightmare you're talking fans you're talking you're talking fans feel that way yes yeah I and some media members

I'm I don't I have no idea when we're talking about people who haven't done this before there's no way for any of us to reasonably guess how Ben Johnson or Bobby Sloak or Mike McDonald

will be as a head coach Okay, so it's ridiculous. And if we're already back on the Sam Hal, Carson, Wenz, Taylor Heineke group, I don't have time for those conversations with those people. Let's look at Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn's done this before. He's the only one currently of the people they are considering that's actually been a head coach. Rahim Morris, if he hadn't gotten hired, would have been out there. And by the way, if Rahim Morris, were still available, he might be at the top of the list right now. He might be. He's got the Shanahan stamp of approval. Yeah. By the way, Dan Quinn, I would bet you, since he worked, since Kyle was his offensive coordinator and Adam Peters and Kyle were together in San Francisco, certainly Adam Peters knows

everything you need to know about Dan Quinn. And he's come back for a second interview. So that's part of putting it all together as well. Quinn's the guy that's been a head coach. Let's look at him as a head coach. Well, he took over in Atlanta in 2015, and in 2016 they lost the Super Bowl to New England, and they had a 28-3 lead in the game.

And then in 2017, they were 10 and 6, and they won a wild card game against Sean McVe, his first year in the postseason with the Rams in the Coliseum, and then they had Philadelphia completely dead to write the year that Philly won the Super Bowl with Nick Foles and Julio Jones couldn't pull down a touchdown catch in the end zone from Matt Ryan in the waning moments of the game. If not, they would have been back into the NFC championship game. And then went 7 and 9, 7 and 9, started 0 and 5 during the pandemic year, and got fired by Arthur Blank. So he's had success as a head coach.

He's had success as a coordinator. But let's face it, the reason our fans that you just described would have a major problem with Quinn is because of the last time Quinn was involved in a football game as the defensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys. And it was ugly because they got completely embassed. embarrassed, and by the way, completely out-coached he did by Matt LaFleur in the NFC wildcard round against the Packers. But he did a really good job with Dallas defensively when he took over a team that was horrible defensively a couple of years ago in 2021. He replaced Nolan, right? He replaced Mike Nolan, who was McCarthy's D.C. I think he did.

Yeah. So McDonald, Quinn, I would say it's one of those two. I guess it could be Bobby Slovak. Bobby Sloak could fit the offensive coordinator, worked with the young quarterback, and C.J. Stroud and did wonders for him, comes from the Shanahan tree, and is only 36 years old.

but Ben Johnson's only 37. I guess it could be sloic, especially given that they're going to draft a quarterback at number two, just like Houston did last year. If it is one of the defensive guys, now who are we talking about as an offensive coordinator? Yes. You know?

Yes. Absolutely. Like Dan Quinn was... Again, again, you know, for, Just to refresh everyone's memory about Eric B. enemy. Okay. One, his players didn't like him. Two, his boss didn't like him.

Okay. Some players didn't like him. His boss wasn't crazy about him. Probably not. And his offense was negligibly better than Scott Turner's. Yeah, barely. I don't get the attraction other than he's been a victim. Tommy, it's not the,

group of, it's not our audience right now that we're talking to. It's a sliver of the audience that we're talking to right now. It's the people that we often refer to, the people that are just, you know, that thought the Carson Wentz trade was the best ever, that thought Taylor Heineke should be the starter and we should just build around him and who think that we should still be building around Sam Howell. You can't help those people. The fan base, but you're right. Yeah. You're right. Isn't just that group. you hire Dan Quinn than who becomes the offense coordinator. Obviously, that's huge when you're about to draft the quarterback.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, if you end up hiring McDonald, if you end up going with the leader, and it's a defensive guy, and it's Quinn, the OC hires going to be huge. And Kellyn Moore, who worked in Dallas with Dan Quinn as an example, is off the board. And, you know, Arthur Smith is off the board. Kellyn Moore, by the way, you know,

ended up taking the gig in Philadelphia. Vic Fangio is the defensive coordinator of Philly. Kellen Moore goes to Philadelphia to work with Jalen Hertz in that offense. I, the top OC candidates, you know, you got guys in San Francisco. Like Brian Greasy. In Detroit, you have a guy like potentially Mark Brunel or Hank Frailey. You know, just, yeah.

I'm trying to think of who else would be out there. I'm now looking through the list of, you know, Josh McDaniels is still out there. Shane Waldron, did he get a job after leaving Seattle or not? I forget if Shane Waldron's anywhere right now. But you know what? That would be a tie to Seattle with Quinn, where he was the defensive coordinator and a successful defensive coordinator for Pete Carroll. I wonder if Shane Waldron got hired after, did he get hired or not yet? Is he in Chicago?

Chicago. He's in Chicago. He got hired this offseason by the Bears. So you start to look at, well, look, we've got time to get into that. Yeah, shocker. I think, let me just give Ben Standing some credit here because I, you know, I don't follow everybody religiously, and this isn't an audit of everybody on the beat, but I have Ben as, you know, a radio guest twice a week. He's part of the 980 insider group on, on, my show specifically. And Ben started to say to me two and a half weeks ago, he goes, I don't know about this Ben Johnson thing. He's like, it seems like it. Everybody's reporting it. You know, it's, you know,

being reported by everybody, but he's like, he's like, you know, it could be one of those echo chamber things. It could be, um, you know, I, I don't, he's like, whatever, for whatever reason, his gut told him that it wasn't a done deal like a lot of people thought. So. And when he was on with me yesterday, it was funny, Tommy, because this is a part of the conversation that I think you're going to enjoy more because you want to diminish the Washington job. I'm kidding. I said to him, if Seattle now has Ben Johnson as a top target as well, can you really say that the Washington job is a much better job than the Seattle job? I think that and that's when I started to say

maybe you've been right about this Ben Johnson thing that he could end up in Seattle. Seattle's got a much better roster. Seattle's got a history recently that is much more attractive to a 37-year-old. The 37-year-old guy, unless he's a real historian, doesn't know anything about the glory years in Washington.

He knows Seattle's been great for most of his lifetime. are for a lot of it. Not to mention the fan base. Keep in mind, too, people. These younger coaches, their impression of Washington is that's the stadium in which they either don't have fans at games or the fans are all dressed in the opponent's, you know, garb. We're not considered to be this great fan base, you know, by young coaches and by people around the league. Now, I think Josh Harris and Mitchell Rails and hopefully Adam Peters will do a great job of letting everybody know what this place was and what they think it can be, you know, again at some point.

But what is attractive is Dan Snyder's not here. They've got a lot of draft picks. They've got more cap space than anybody in the league. And one of those draft picks is number two overall in a draft that appears to have maybe three quarterbacks with super high ceilings. that's what's attractive about it. It's a clean slate for an offensive guy, for sure, and a defensive guy who wants to just win. You mentioned Dan Snyder.

Yeah. You mentioned Dan Snyder. If this was an issue of money, would Dan Snyder have not come away with Ben Johnson? Well, in recent years, he wouldn't have had it, but no, back in the day, of course not. But he wouldn't even, if Dan Snyder were here, we've talked about this, Ben Johnson, any of the top candidates. It wouldn't have interviewed here. They wouldn't be attracted to the job. Yeah.

So it wouldn't have mattered anymore. Right. The overspending everybody by 20% was a first 10 to 12 year thing. Not the last date, really, for the most part. Okay. We're going to record this podcast. We're going to put it out there for all we know by the time we're done or you're listening to this. They have their new head coach.

but in just reading some of the more recent tweets here. Nikki, well, I think I just read her last tweet. So I think we're all up to date. Ben Johnson staying in Detroit, Washington interviewed Dan Quinn this morning for a second time. They're interviewing Aaron Glenn, perhaps, as we speak. And yesterday they interviewed Mike McDonald and Anthony Weaver in Baltimore for the second. time. They also interviewed Bobby Sloick two times as well. So it would seem to be that that's the list that the new head coach is going to come from. All right, we'll take a break. When we come back,

we'll get into the championship games from Tommy's perspective because he hasn't had a chance to weigh in on that. Got a lot more on the show as well. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by our good friends at Duce South in D.C. They're throwing the hottest Mardi Gras party in town on Fat Tuesday, February 13th. Get ready to let the Good Times roll

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Please stop mixing up the days with Tommy. It ruins my Tuesday and Thursday if he's not there. Thank you very much. Yeah, Tommy is scheduled for Tuesday and Thursday, but I guess recently did we get off that schedule? Is that what happened? Not really. I think we pretty much stuck to it since I've got down to Florida. Okay. I think maybe around the holidays,

maybe we did a Monday and a Wednesday. I can't remember. Maybe. It's possible. Also, I just want to read this. This came from, where is it here? I had it a second ago. This is from John.

John tweeted me. You can follow me on Twitter at Kevin She and D.C. Follow Tommy on Twitter at Tom Levero. He said, you went really hard on Dan Campbell yesterday. Did you know how bad their kicker was from 50 and out? So Tommy, I'm going to let you weigh in on the championship games here in a moment. But I just wanted to address this real quickly. Just so you know, John.

And I saw a lot of these, you know, people, this guy from 50 and out was terrible, Badgley, the kicker. Neither one of the two field goal attempts that Dan Campbell passed on were 50 yards or more. Now, I have seen his numbers from 48 and out, and they're not good, but one of the kicks would have been from 45, and the second kick would have been from 48. So there was a lot of, you know, sort of, you know, exaggerating straw man stuff out there about, you know, Michael Badgley's numbers, which, by the way, let me just point out, was one of the reasons I said last week, Todd Bowles was an idiot for not taking the time out because Badgley wasn't good from long distances. And that kick would have been from 49 yards out in Detroit. I still, still can't believe that Dan Campbell took knees with 16 and 15 seconds to go against the Bucks. And then with 36 seconds to go, Todd Bowles didn't call his last time out.

That is so horrendously awful. And the worst part about it is Todd Bowles has doubled and tripled down on the game was a foregone conclusion. I love Todd Bowles, but for me, he could never coach for me again. ever, because I'd be afraid that in a playoff game, when we still had a chance to potentially win the game, he would just tap out. And so I could never, ever have him be the coach. It's too bad because somebody should have said, Todd, it's okay. You didn't know what was going on. You froze. Baker Mayfield had just thrown the pick. You assumed they were taking the knees at the right time and you weren't paying attention. Just say that because I think that's,

That's actually what was probably true. But don't tell us that you knew you had a timeout, that you knew what they were doing was wrong, but you just figured it was a foregone conclusion that you were going to lose the game anyway, and he was going to make the field goal. But anyway, I didn't go hard on Dan Campbell, John, with respect to the fourth down decisions. Cooley was on with me. If you guys missed that yesterday, Cooley was great. He had watched both games.

We went through all of the Dan Campbell decisions. The Dan Campbell decision to me that was not debatable and was egregious was the third down run at the end of the game on third and goal from the one running the football basically meant if you got stopped, the game was over. You needed to score seven or three and still have three timeouts left. That was what I killed them for. The others were I would have kicked the field goal at 24 to 10. I would have kicked the field goal down 27-24, but they were more debatable for me. And I did not kill them on those fourth-down decisions necessarily.

I just disagreed with them. But it was more debatable for me. But anyway, with that out of the way, Tommy, let's start with Baltimore, Kansas City. You're getting your shot at it here on Tuesday. the game was 48 hours ago or so, what did you think? Well, I wrote a column in today's paper how basically the chief set the tone before the game even started when they were on the field in the pregame warm-ups.

Right. And they threw Justin Tucker's helmet, football, and kicking tea added away so Mahomes could work out. Right. That set the tone right there. That was the Chiefs, the whole game. Every time Travis Kelsey jumped up after catching one of the ten passes he caught, he would be in some Raven's face.

John laughing. I mean, the Chiefs had, it seemed to me they adopted the attitude that, you know, that we're the defending champs. We're a four and a half point underdogs. We're not getting the respect we deserve. we're going to get that respect before they even kick off. And that was the tone throughout the entire game.

It took the Ravens totally out of their game all afternoon. I mean, they were on the defensive. You know, with all the with the... Penalties. Personal fouls with the penalties. They were just added it. And the Chief took them right out of their game from the beginning. You know, in the wire, there is an Omar, the great character in the wire, when guys would come after him, he had a saying that said, you come for the king, you best not miss.

And that's basically what happened. And the chief social media account after the game posted something similar. If you come for the kingdom, you best not miss. So they picked up on that, too. It was like, I wrote in my column, it was like every time, every time, you know, Kansas City got the ball, or every time the Ravens got the ball, somebody yelled Omar's coming and then they panicked.

They were at their game. They were at their game the whole afternoon. The Chiefs played like, you know, they were outraged that they weren't getting the proper respect, and the Ravens had no answers for them. their offensive ineptitude early in the game. No answers at all.

And then when they did finally, you know, happen to luck into a big play, they self-destructed. Yeah. I saw this, talked about it a little bit with Cooley yesterday, talking about just how Patrick Mahomes just doesn't make any mistakes in these big games.

what's been really interesting to watch him in all of these playoff games over the years. He just never makes mistakes. And this was tweeted out by, I think, one of the PFF guys. Mahomes in the three playoff games so far, zero turnovers, zero turnover-worthy plays, which is that stat that PFF tracks, the one that Taylor Heineckee was always super high, which sort of indicates, you know, he got lucky a lot. Zero turnover worthy plays and just two sacks in three playoff games. In the last two years, they won the Super Bowl last year, played three playoff games.

11 touchdown passes, zero interceptions, a 70% completion percentage, zero turnovers, and just sacked five times in six games with a sack percentage of 1.9% this year, 2.9% last year. This guy does whatever it takes. If it takes, for the lack of a better description, game managing to win a game, he does that better than any game manager that's ever played in whatever way you want to describe an NFL quarterback game manager. If it requires him to be Superman, he does that.

He is so special. And we talked about this. last week, I said, I think this Baltimore game is the signature game for Patrick Mahomes. If he plays well and they win, you know, and a lot of people, by the way, said he's already the goat, you know, in the conversation. Now, he was great on two drives and one throw at the end. In between, he just managed the game because, as you said, and I thought it was much more on offense, Baltimore was just out of it.

They were out of it from a play-calling standpoint. I still can't believe two days later, six carries for their running backs for the number one rush offense in the NFL. And we never did see. I got to figure Davin Cook must have been a disaster during practice. Dalvin Cook, because we never saw him.

Well, we saw him last week. Not one. Yeah, we saw him last week, and he had a couple of good runs. I saw him last week. Yeah. But we didn't see him on Sunday. Did Justice Hill, did he run? Yeah, he had three carries for three yards, and Gus Edwards had three carries for 20 yards.

And then, you know, most of the rushing yards were scramble yards by Lamar, except for that fourth and one when they went for it early in the game and he ran for 20 yards. I mean, it was, I mean, look, we both loved Baltimore to win the game and win the Super Bowl. Absolutely. And it just, I mean, we'll get to the Super Bowl in a bit. So what did you think of the second game? The second game? That was the 49ers beating the Lions.

Right. Brock Purdy did what Clark Jackson couldn't do. You know? Basically, he brought his team back. And I agree with you on the Dan Campbell calls. and, you know, I mean, I just, my preference is I probably lean the other way. I almost always take the points, particularly in a playoff game, but you don't know how hard it's going to be to get the chance to do it again.

No, I said I would have kicked the field goals, but I didn't have like a massive issue in the moment with either one of them, more so with the second one, but, you know, Cooley made a good point. It's like, that's where you've seen his aggression, is when he's behind and he wants to go win the game and he goes for it. The first one, they had a chance to just easily push the lead back with a 45-yard field goal to three scores at 27 to 10, and there weren't that many possessions likely left in the game with 60 to go in the third quarter.

But yeah, go ahead. Yeah, and my answer to, like you pointed out that none of the kicks were 50 yards or beyond, and my answer to those who crow about the bad kicker, I would say, well, then the lion should have went into the playoffs with a bad place kicker. They were already operating at a deficit. It's a great point. If they went into the playoffs with a kicker that they couldn't rely on.

I know. They had the other guy there for a while, Patterson, I think his name was, and then they went to Badgley. But, yeah, that's actually, And in the conversation, which has been, you know, it's just so, I don't mind the analytics guys at these places, PFF and other places. As long as they are open to it's more than just the math. And oh, by the way, sometimes the math can be misleading because if you take Patrick Mahomes and Jalen Hertz as examples out of the fourth down numbers this year, then, you know, when you make it more applicable to the quarterback you have, You know, there's lots of that stuff.

But I found actually a lot of these guys to be understanding that it is a piece of information. It's a tool. But there's, you know, context as well. And there's a lot more that goes into the decisions. It's the people that just, you know, whether it's on social media or on television, are just hell-bent on telling you, no, Dan Campbell made the right decision. There was a point zero-zero-two percent, you know, analytical. advantage for win probability. Yeah, based on historical numbers and everything else. It doesn't, you've got to take into consideration where you were.

And the reason I, look, Campbell's not an analytic guy. That's the funny thing. He's just, I know, this is a gut guy. This is emotion. Exactly. He's a, I said this yesterday. He's a meathead. I mean, he's a great coach. She's an incredible motivator, but this is the guy that was taking knees a week ago with 16 seconds left on the clock. You know, if it were all about analytics, he would have gone for it at the end of the fourth, at the end of the first half. He would have gone for it when it was fourth and five in San Francisco territory in the first half on one of the early drives in the game. No, it's all feel and, you know, and for the most part he airs on the side of aggression. but this was the guy who went for two after a five-yard penalty from the seven-yard line in Dallas.

That may have been the dumbest decision by a coach we've seen all year. And there are a lot of them out there to choose from, including Bowles last week. But, I mean, and that was strictly he was just pissed off that they got the penalty called on the one that they made. But, yeah, I mean, you know, you mentioned Purdy. we talked a lot about Purdy yesterday. I thought Purdy was horrendous in the first half. And I was, and I was absolutely convinced that Kyle was going to have a lot of splaining to do. That, you know, he wasn't going to, he was going to lose to Detroit at home because they were being dominated by Detroit. And, and that, you know, it was going to come down to this guy such a great coach and they put together such a great roster.

But he is whiffed at quarterback now, you know, and he just hasn't had a good enough quarterback to get it done. And then Detroit, you know, you know, basically soiled themselves for five minutes in the third quarter, gave San Francisco a chance. And Purdy was unbelievable in the fourth quarter, you know, third and fourth quarter. Just making play after play. But it wouldn't have happened if Detroit didn't, you know, basically, you know, poop themselves. You know, I mean, it was one. thing after another. The fourth and two drop, the ball off the face mask

that should have been intercepted, that lands in IUC's hands, the Gibbs fumble, the third nine drop where, you know, Reynolds is still running at this point. And then still, the play that I still think, you know, was the underrated

whiff by Detroit and mistake was the guy that carried the punt from the two yard line into the end zone. After it was a, I didn't realize this yesterday. It was a 74-yard punt that's bouncing around and the guy grabs it and he's going to down it at the two-yard line. He just decides to kind of mosey on into the end zone for a touchback giving San Francisco the ball at the 20. It was just a terrible stretch of errors by Detroit.

And then Purdy was outstanding in the fourth quarter, as was everybody else on that San Francisco team. And that leads me to the Super Bowl, Tommy. I'm still sitting here a day after seeing it, and I knew it was coming because I think I mentioned last week, the look ahead line was San Francisco minus two and a half over Kansas City. But after Sunday, I just don't think that San Francisco should be the team that's favored in this game. Of course not. I mean, if Patrick McHolmes didn't convince you to never be. bet against him this past Sunday, then you'll never be convinced. And the Kansas City defense is just lights out good right now.

And San Francisco's defense has regressed significantly. You know, part of that, by the way, is courtesy of number 92 on their team, Chase Young, who's... I did get, for those of you that said, you didn't spend enough time talking about how disastrous Chase Young was. We did talk about, we talked about it a little bit. But I did get his PFF numbers for the game, if anybody's interested. He was basically sub-average in almost every category, with the exception of tackling. He was slightly above average.

He had a two-yard loss on Gibbs, which kind of fell right into him. I forget if I mentioned this yesterday, but this is the problem, I think, that, you know, teams are going to have with Chase Young. He finally, forget the loafing play. I mean, we saw those in Washington this year. And if you haven't seen the loafing play, just Google, you know, Chase Young, you know, definitely go on social media and search Chase Young and you'll get the video of the Jamir Gibbs touchdown in the first half where literally he couldn't have given less effort on the play. It would have been hard to give less effort. But after he made a play finally in the game,

it was a two-yard loss or a yard loss to Gibbs. Gibbs kind of ran right into him. I think it was Gibbs. It may have been Montgomery. He turns around, looks at the video board. He wants to see himself on the play that he just made. And in the meantime, the lions are getting to the line of scrimmage. And it was one of the defensive linemen for San Francisco.

It may have been Kinlaw, I think it was. was, has to grab Chase Young, turn him around, and then move him to the other side of the line of scrimmage, because he was in the wrong spot. So, you know, speaking of that Kansas City defense, and they are probably going to give that pass rush and those blitzes, if they did have the same game plan, will give Brock Purdy fits. how about a little shout out to a former Washington coaching candidate, Steve Spacknulu. Yeah, yes, Spags did a job.

He did a hell of a job, and the Chiefs players swear by him. They had a picture of the Chiefs players with his name and face on it. You know, we believe Spags. Why aren't we talking to him? Why isn't they talking to him for a coaching candidate? it. Remember, he would not work for Snyder. That was the choice after Zorn. There was no chance that he was going to take a job in D.C. And that's when, you know, they went to Fossil and then they floated Fossil out there in the media and they had already, and Fossil told him to hire Zorn to be his offensive

coordinator. And then when they got win that the fans didn't like Fossil, they backed off on Fossil. And that's when you were in the parking lot. and heard Jim Zorn talking to his wife. He had one of those 12-hour interviews with Snyder and one of those legendary 12-hour interviews. Yeah. But you're in the parking lot and you hear Jim Zorn talking to his wife

and he said, no, the head coaching job. And then he had to go home and get a suit to go over to the Snyder's house. Oh, God. Thank God we don't have those days anymore. Thank God. We don't have those days anymore.

Do you know what? I just looked up Jim Fossil. Did you know he died two years ago? Yes. Yeah, I did. I didn't remember that. I knew he died. He coached in the old U.S.L.

I think for a couple years. United Football League. I think his son has been a coach. Yeah, of course he has. He's in Dallas, right? I think he's in Dallas. I don't know. I think his son is special teams coach.

Is it in Philly? Where is his son? I'm looking for it right now. I can't find it. Whatever. Who cares? I want to mention to everybody on Friday night, Bethesda Theater in Bethesda. The guys from 980, the guys from 1067, the fan.

We're all getting together. We're going to do a quick dog and pony on the stage, and then we're going to hang out with you all. John Allen is going to be there, and you'll be able to hang out with him, talk to John Allen, probably, I'm sure, get autographs and pictures with John. It's at the Bethesda Theater Friday night. Get your tickets at Bethesda Theater.com. I'll be there, and it'll be good to see all of you guys, especially those that I haven't seen in a while. and Tommy and I have been talking about doing something like this at some point down the road, which we will, I promise. We've had a lot of you see. Yeah, we're going to do that one of these days.

Look, I don't want to upstage your stage performance. Yeah. But let me just mention that tomorrow night, karaoke begins at Kenny D. Oh, boy. So follow Tommy on Twitter. You'll get the video. Tommy Purify will be making his return to the stage at Kenny D's live. I want Washington to interview Mike Vrable.

What's wrong with Vrable? Maybe he's told people he, who has interviewed him? Teams interviewed him. Did Atlanta interview him? Maybe not Atlanta. Here, I'm looking it up. I mean, you got to wonder. Did Seattle interviewed him, right?

I don't know. I think Seattle interviewed him. That's crazy. It really is. I mean, I can understand Belichick to a certain degree. I can't understand Vrable. Yeah. Out of the three, Harbaugh and Belichick and Vrable,

he's the one that, to me, is most mystifying. Because he's the one that is 48 years old. Harbaugh Harbaugh apparently when he interviewed for the Vikings job a couple of years ago essentially showed up and acted like he had it and he wanted

control and the whole thing and the Wilf family who owns the Vikings it's not what they wanted they wanted a general manager they wanted you know they went in and I could you know but Vrabel maybe Vrable wants a lot of control

maybe who knows Maybe he does. And he's a guy who can sit out and he'll be more in demand as time goes on. Yeah. Here's more from Adam Schaefter. Actually, I'll give you the more from Adam Schaefter on Ben Johnson right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Okay, Shelley's backroom is the mecca for cigar smokers. It's the only place in the district where you, You can buy a cigar, sit down, have a drink, have a great meal. There's no place else. You can do that in Washington, D.C.

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I miss Shelly's more than anything about not being in D.C. right now. Shelly's backroom, 1331, F. Street, North, West. You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. All right. This is what Adam Schaefter just tweeted out. This is incredible to me, but we'll see how it plays out for Ben Johnson in Detroit. He tweeted, Lyons' offensive coordinator Ben Johnson has two years remaining on his contract with Detroit. His deal was not adjusted to stay per league source, proving that money is not Johnson's biggest motivation. The Lions still could opt to adjust the contract down the line, but it's not the reason that Johnson returned to Detroit today.

Johnson is loyal. I mean, I think you've got to be kind of gullible to believe that he just is staying and not asking for more money. because he's just loyal and wants to win a Super Bowl. I think that's really, that's just not, that's not believable to me. Him staying because he doesn't want to be a head coach right now and turning it into, I want to win a Super Bowl, I'm loyal, et cetera, et cetera is one thing. But not leveraging it into a pay raise from where you are now is, would make, me question hiring him as a head coach in the future?

Because he's got more leverage right now than he, like you said, maybe than he'll ever have. Yeah. I mean, it's a strange look. You can't say it's a good look. You can argue maybe it's not a bad look. But all of a sudden, the golden boy has questions around him. Now the question is, not only has he not ever been a head coach before, but does he want to be a head coach? Yeah, not only does he, is it that he doesn't want to be a head coach, but at some point down the road, if he does, dude, how did you not turn that into more money?

I mean, again, that's the good look, bad look, and it's a matter of perspective, I guess, and if he just got this two-year contract and, you know, he, I mean, maybe he feels, obligated to sticking with the deal that he signed last year, which has two years remaining on it. And I think that there's something admirable about that. But at the same time, he didn't have to stay because in this league, you're allowed to leave that contract for a step-up job as in head coach. And there are expectations that you do that. Did you read Nikki's profile of Ben Johnson in the post? I didn't. it's pretty good

it's pretty good and he is a unique individual and I could see him having this code of ethics that he would live by I could certainly see that possible based on the story

I read by Nikki in the Post but you know you just you got it you got to question the logic of it all right Dan Quinn, you know, is a possibility. He obviously has ties to Kyle Shanahan, who's got ties to Adam Peters.

McDonald has ties to Eugene Shen, who was in Baltimore with him when he was working with the Ravens. Adam Peters, obviously being in San Francisco, knows Bobby Sloic really well. I don't know where the Aaron Glenn ties are, if there are any. I think McDonald or Quinn. I would say Sloick, if I knew anything about Sloick's ability to kind of lead a room. Because he's 36 years old and he's been a coordinator all of one season. And, you know, if they don't hire Bobby Sloick right now, it obviously means that Adam Peters said he's not ready to be a head coach.

So we'll see. And you have who? I've got Quinn or McDonald. You have... I have Quinn. You have Quinn. You're just hoping for Quinn. Yeah.

I'm hoping for chaos. All right. I think he'd be a good coach, too. I wanted to mention that I put a Twitter poll out right when this news broke, and I'm going to tell you what the results are. The Twitter poll was, so with Ben Johnson out, who do you want? Mike McDonald, Dan Quinn, Aaron Glenn, Anthony Weaver. I did not include Bobby Sloick.

I should have. That was stupid because Sloak would have been a better option here. It's 90% McDonald's because they're looking at Quinn. Quinn's second at 5.8% and then it's Glenn and Weaver. I don't think people know enough about Glenn and Weaver. People should know about Aaron Glenn because of his playing career. But yeah, Slowick was interviewed twice. When I put this out, I couldn't remember if Sloak had been interviewed twice or not. So, all right. One last thing for the show today. First of all, I want to mention to everybody that there's an opportunity if you're in, to a high line car dealership, exotic car dealership. There's a new dealership in town. It's Magdon

Motors, and you can find out all you need to know at Magden Motors.com. That's M-A-G-D-E-N-M-O-T-O-R-S.com. They specialize in clean, low-mile, unique spec vehicles, big brand names like Lamborghini and Porsche, etc. Every car goes. through a 110 point inspection and is backed by an extensive warranty, financing, leasing available on all vehicles in their dealership, and they've got an expert staff with an average of 20 years of experience. So if you're into Premier Highline exotic vehicles, go to Magdon Motors.com to learn more. CBS Sports put out this story today where they picked the MVP for all 32 teams.

And I think we had a conversation a few weeks ago towards the end of the regular season. On this team, which just had one of the worst seasons we've ever seen, who's their MVP? They had Terry McClorn as the MVP. And they wrote, is there a more underrated wide receiver in the NFL than Terry McClorn? I don't know. There might be. The fifth year veteran continues to produce with less than ideal quarterback play. In 2023 was no exception. But those numbers don't even do justice to McClorn's impact on the offense.

That said with another thousand-yard season, McLorn became the first player in franchise history to cross that threshold in four straight seasons. I think there are three potentials. for MVP of the team. Want me to give them to you, or do you want to just give me yours first? Okay, Trisway, Sam Cosme, and Terry McClure. Wow, good for you to get Sam Cosme. I don't think Trisway this year, although as a holder, he did a phenomenal job.

That's a good point. He may have been the best holder in the league. I think it was Brian Robinson, Jr., Terry McLaren, and Sam. Cosmi and my MVP is Sam Cosmy. I don't think that people understand how good Sam Cosmy was this year. Sam Cosmy he started all 17 games per PFF he was the fourth best guard in the NFL he was the second best guard over the final seven weeks of the season per PFF the offensive line which you know same people that want you know Carson Wentz Taylor Heineke Sam Haler Eric B. Enemy think that the offensive line was the problem.

It finished in the top half of the league, per all of the advanced numbers in past block win rate, in past protection numbers. Let me just say, though, I did not think it was a good offensive line. I agree that it didn't really, it was not anywhere near good enough in the NFL. But I think Sam Cosmi deserves the team's MVP this year. I think he was outstanding for more of the year. than any other player. Brian Robinson, Jr. would be my number two.

I thought he had some outstanding games and proved himself to be a versatile back this year as a good receiver as well. What about you? Of those three? I would say Terry McClure. I would say that. Okay.

Anything else that you'd like to add to that? No. I mean, they already made the case for them. What do I got to come up with some exotic statistics? that PFF doesn't have? That's not my game, buddy. No, it isn't. It's not really my game either.

Yeah, I mean, I guess. I mean, Terry was really good again. You know, but I talked about this with Denton on the radio show today. This is not going to be the off-season where we have wide receiver conversations about where Terry McLaren ranks

because he's not going to be anywhere near a top-10 receiver in the league. There's just too many receivers that statistically and otherwise are just, were just much better than Terry McLaurin this year. I mean, we had the emergence of guys like Puka Nakuwa. We didn't even know who he was last year. C.D. Lamb became an elite wide receiver this year.

Brandon Ayuk, I think, became an elite receiver this year. You know, Calvin Ridley was back. I mean, Terry McLaren finished 28th in the last. league in NFL reception yardage. And receptions, McClorn finished 24th in the league. He had four touchdowns this year. He's a good player. He's a number one receiver. He's a top 15-ish kind of a receiver. But I don't think we're going to be doing a lot of where does Terry McLaren rank this year. They're just, it's a league of great elite receivers and he is not an elite receiver. he's in tier three.

I got probably 10 or 11, 12 guys that are in the first two tiers. You got anything else today, boss? I got nothing else for you, boss. What a day. What a day, crazy day. Didn't anticipate the day. If you're anticipating that your windows are going to hold up for another 10 years and you've had them for 10 years, don't do that.

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