The Kevin Sheehan Show - Best NFL Weekend Ever!

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

Kevin opened the show recapping the incredible NFL weekend of playoffs games. ESPN's Scott Van Pelt joined the show to add to the conversation of one of the great NFL weekends of all-time with one of the greatest finishes in NFL postseason history last night between the Chiefs and Bills. Kevin finished the show with a little on the Wizards, Ovechkin, Terps, and Denny McCarthy's T-6 finish at La Quinta.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Looking to the end zone. For the win, he caught it. To the championship game.

That touchdown to Travis Kelsey on the opening drive of overtime, capped off one of the most memorable playoff games in NFL history. Here we go again with the perhaps perceived. hyperbole. Good Monday to all of you. Scott Van Pelt will join me here shortly. We will have a conversation about all of these games. I'm going to go through these games in the opening segment, game by game, and give you my thoughts on each of them. I will start with this. Obviously, this divisional round of the NFL playoffs producing four walk-off wins, three by field goal, a fourth by a touchdown. And the fourth and final game being one of the most exciting NFL playoff games in NFL history.

Certainly you would put the final two minutes up there with any game you've ever watched at any point during the season. But this probably is the greatest weekend in the history of the NFL playoffs. The total aggregate number of points, 15, all right, the four games, decided by 15 points. That's the fewest for this round in NFL history. And never before have all four games been decided on walk-off plays. Three field goals in the first three in the touchdown, which by the way followed a field goal on the final play of regulation that tied the game up at 36 at the end of regulation. I mean, what an amazing final 13 seconds of regulation. that was we will get to all of that here momentarily. The only day that is comparable, I think,

to yesterday or the two days in aggregate, it was championship Sunday following the 2018 season. Back in 2019, January of 2019, when you had the Rams beat the Saints in overtime, 26, 23. Remember after the egregious interference penalty, the blatant interference penalty that was not called, that would have given the Saints the opportunity for a walk-off field goal and regulation. They ended up losing that game to the Rams, and that was followed on that same day later that day with Kansas City's first of four home conference championship games when the Pats and the Chiefs went to overtime in an incredible fourth quarter, by the way, in that game, where the Chiefs came back from 10 down to force overtime at 3131.

But the Patriots went down the field on the opening drive of overtime. Brady got the win over the Chiefs 37-31. I mean, you had that day you had back-to-back overtime classics on the same day. That's the only day, certainly recently, I can think of, that matches what we saw just this weekend. Ironically, you know, the Chiefs complained after that game about the overtime rule. You know, the fact that Mahomes didn't get another opportunity, like I'm sure a lot of Buffalo fans are complaining.

Now, look, NFL fans are probably complaining about it. I think we all wanted to see Josh Allen get another opportunity. I'm fine with the overtime rule being what it is. We'll get to more of that here momentarily. For me, you know, the greatest start. to finish playoff game of all time. And I think I still feel that way after last night. Was the epic in Miami in January of 1982 when the Chargers outlasted the Dolphins 41 to 38 and double overtime in what was truly an amazing game where the Chargers jumped out to a 24 to nothing

lead. Miami came back. They ended up taking a 38, 31 lead late, and then foul. and company tied the game. The game went to overtime. That was the game where Don Straught came in. They threw the hook and ladder at the end of the first half to Tony Nathan. It had so many memorable plays. Kellyn Winslow's performance was just incredible. He had 13 catches in the game. He had two blocked kicks on special teams. But certainly last night's Chiefs' Bill's final two minutes is all time. I mean, you know, it's never been matched in a playoff game. 25 points in the final two minutes of regulation is the most ever in a playoff game. It's the second most ever, including any

regular season games. Mahomes and Allen combined to go 15 of 20 for 290 yards and four touchdowns in the final two minutes and in overtime. I tweeted out at one point that, you know, this is going to be one of those games that years down the road, you're going to go back and say, God, let's go back and watch that Kansas City Buffalo final two minutes, you know, again. In the same way, for those that never see it, I always say, go back and watch Hagler and Hearns, the greatest three rounds in succession I've ever seen, and people will, you know, say, oh, my God, that was unbelievable. And if you didn't see this, years from now, people will say, no, no, no, you got to go back

and watch Chiefs Bills from 2022 in the division. round. It was amazing. We're, you know, we get caught up in the recency bias thing. I talked about it a few weeks ago with the Raiders and the Chargers game, but that was all time last night. Just like the Raiders Chargers was epic and memorable. You know, here we are two weeks later with another one. The NFL is amazing, boys and girls. It just never quits. It's the greatest reality show there is. It's single-handedly keeping network television alive. The ratings for the Cowboys San Francisco game last week, apparently 41.5 million people watched Cowboys 49ers last week.

That was the average. It peaked at 50 million. How many people were watching this game last night? I mean, an unbelievable game. I want to get to all four and rip through thoughts from all four games. we'll bring on Scott, and then we'll finish up the show with a couple of other things as well. So let's do this. Let's start with and go through these games chronologically and start with the first one this weekend,

which was Cincinnati and Tennessee, the number one seed facing Evan McPherson and a 52-yard field goal at the gun. Trying to kick the Bengals into the AFC championship. Harris the snapper. Hugo was holding. 52 yards. Sweeps the leg, McPherson. He's got it.

Cincinnati wins. That dude, by the way, is 8 for 8 in the two playoff games, Evan McPherson is. That one from 52 yards out, there was never a doubt. And the Bengals beat the Titans, the number one seed 19 to 16 in the first game, which was tremendous. There was so much to that game. Let me go through some of my notes from that game.

I want to start with Ryan Tannahill. He's the number one reason they lost that game. Tanna Hill had one exceptional throw in the game. That touchdown throw to A.J. Brown back shoulder to tie it at 16, 16 in the third quarter, was a tremendous throw. But my God, did he make some backbreaking, game-killing, season-ending plays in this game. Ryan Tannihill is the reason the Titans are home more than anything else. First play of the game, interception.

At 16 to 6, they drive all the way down the field on the ground on the strength of Derek Henry and Foreman. And they've got a first and goal at the 9, and they run a first-down bubble quick screen. He gets it deflected up into the air and picked off. then with a chance to get into field goal range with the game tied with 25 seconds left in really good field position. He throws to a receiver that was seemingly covered by like four guys. Ball gets deflected up into the air intercepted. Just a horrendous decision. Three interceptions on the day.

The poor third and one read option keeper where he should have left it with Derek Henry that he got stopped on was a massive play. You know, no doubt that Ryan Tannahill had an. awful day quarterbacking the number one seed Tennessee Titans on a day where their defense was outstanding. Their running game was really good with Derek Henry back and with Foreman back. Tannahill killed him. In this game though, I have to say that I think when this weekend ended last night, even though the Mahomes and the Josh Allen performances were just all time, I'm not so sure that there was a more impressive performance for me than Joe Burroughs. Joe Burrow was sacked nine times, nine times,

and yet he still made every play that they needed, every big throw. A huge third-down run on their opening third-quarter drive that preceded the mix-and-touchdown run that gave him a second-down run, that gave him a 16 to 6 lead. He had a third down run for a first down. He was big-time money all day long. Not one mistake on a day when the opposing defense, Tennessee's defense, would have made 75, 80 percent or more of the league's quarterbacks

completely fold-up shop. What a pass rush Tennessee had. What a cool, smart, calm demeanor, quarterback Joe Burrow was. He had an answer at every turn. I think he made one play in the game that he'd love to have back. Look, I haven't done film breakdown, and there may have been of those nine sacks, three or four that he could avoid it. I think there's one that was definitely on him. There was the third down sack he took with just about three minutes to go in a tie game when they were in field goal range. You know, that was a blitz in which, yeah, a couple of the, you know,

rushers did drop off, but the bottom line was they were outnumbered to start. There was a free runner, and with an empty set backfield, the quarterback is responsible for that, and he took a sack, knocked him out of field goal range. He's got to know where to throw hot on that play or to throw it away. He couldn't do it, but that was about it. That was about it. You know, I think he had a delay of game. There was a delay of game early in the game when he got sacked. It would have been a longer field goal. but nine sacks a relentless, dominant performance by Tennessee at the line of scrimmage, and yet he threw for 348 yards on a day when he was under siege. And the one interception was really a ball that Samajai Piron, remember him, should have caught.

He couldn't handle the throw, deflected, intercepted. His throw to chase after the last Tannihil interception that got him into field goal range was perfect. His QBR number, and I like the ESPN QBR calculation, you know, stat. His QBR number was 28, and I just looked at that after the game, and I'm like, I don't know that I can ever trust that ESPN QBR number again. I thought he was so good. And clearly, the number one reason, from their standpoint, that they won the game. Tannehill, obviously, the number one reason Tennessee lost.

I just thought he was so good. And I thought there was a point in the game in which you just saw the trust that they have in Joe Burrow. If you go to the end of the first half, they've got a 9 to 6 lead. And they get the ball back from their own 18-yard line. And, you know, they're going to get the ball to start the second half. 9-6 lead, their own 18-yard line, a little bit more than a minute left in the game. and he's got him dropping back and throwing. I'm like, no, no, no, no.

This is where you don't take the risk. You go to halftime, you start with a three-point lead. You've been sacked five times already. Something bad could happen here. And he delivered a first down on a third and six on a play where they could have run the ball and Tennessee had no timeouts left, and they would have gotten to halftime.

But they had them continue to throw. Now, they didn't get a field goal attempt, but what an incredible amount of, of trust that they showed in this guy, because that was high-risk territory, I thought. I just think that there were very few quarterbacks. Certainly we saw several of them this weekend play, but, you know, basically three quarters of the league yesterday would have never, ever. I mean, I'd go further than that.

I'd go four-fiths of the league would not have been able to come close to delivering what Joe Burrow did in that game. I thought it was the most impressive performance of the weekend. other than the combined quarterbacking performance of Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes last night. But Burrough was amazing. A couple of other observations from this game. Jeffrey Simmons, I've talked a lot about him over the last couple of years. He was one of my favorite players coming out in that draft. I like Derek Brown a lot, too, the Carolina detackle.

I don't know, maybe I've gotten caught up in defensive tackles in particular in recent years because Washington's focused on the position with Payne and Allen, and Allen's a tremendous player, and I think Allen deserved to be one of the top four all-pro players. Jeffrey Simmons was and deserved it. He was as dominant as you will ever see an interior defensive lineman be dominant in a big game. I mean, Aaron Donald is the only one in recent memory that I can remember totally taking over a game the way to try.

Jeffrey Simmons, and by the way the Tennessee defense did, but led by Jeffrey Simmons. He had three of the nine sacks. It was constant mayhem that he created. And yet Joe Burrow overcame it. His team lost, but it wasn't because of him. God, he was good. Logan Wilson for Cincinnati, what a linebacker he's turned into. You know, second year, third round pick out of Wyoming. The fourth downstop on Derek Henry, the interception at the very end off the Eli Apple deflection on the horrible throw. by Tannahill. The kicker McPherson, my God, the game winner, of course, from 52 yards out. And how about the fact that they were so confident after the completion by Burrow to chase that, you know, 52, 50, 54 yards, it didn't matter. They were in range. They felt great about it.

That literally Burrow, in moving the ball to the right, the correct hash for McPherson, took a two-yard loss to make it an even longer field goal from 52 yards, even a concern and he knocked it right through. I thought the field goal that he kicked in the first half with a minute 40 to go in a six to six game that made it nine to six from 54 yards out was a huge play in the game. A miss and all of a sudden Tennessee's got field position and maybe they go into the break with a half-time lead. McPherson was tremendous. Two other quick notes from this game. I thought that the Tennessee two-point conversion was fine that they attempted it in a six-six game in the first half after there was a penalty that advanced the ball to the one-yard line

for the attempt, especially since they looked pretty good on that drive and Henry looked pretty good on that drive. I thought Derek Henry could have easily stuck the ball out and had it break the plane before his knee touchdown. He didn't ever reach the ball out. It was strange. He got hit at the one-yard line. He went down with the ball cradled in his arm about, I don't know, six inches short of the goal line. And all he had to do was reach it out. Who cares if it gets knocked out of your hands? It's a two-point conversion.

Yeah, they could pick it up and return it theoretically. But you're not going to lose possession of the ball. I thought that he could have easily gotten that two-point conversion if he had just stuck the ball out. And the last thing from this game, I didn't think that. the Amani hooker interception off the deflection off of the dropped ball from Samage-P-Rine. I thought the ball hit the ground simultaneously with the catch. And listening to Gene Starrator, who I think does a pretty decent job, he said you got to have it before it touches the ground,

that if it touches simultaneously, it's incomplete. I thought they were going to come back with that as incomplete. But anyway, hell of a game to start Saturday. 1916 Cincinnati. Game stayed under. I leaned under. I didn't give it out of a smell test pick. I was pissed.

O and three smell test this weekend with the two unders from yesterday, which both looked under until late craziness. And I had Tampa too. And the liens were the two unders on Saturday and Kansas City. So just bad luck this year. We still have two weekends left. But what a hell of a game that was. All right, let's go to Green Bay, San Francisco.

Here's Robbie Gold on for the upset. Kick was down the middle and good. 49ers win it. Wow. I never, ever in watching that game Saturday, thought San Francisco was going to win the game. And that's really my biggest take. away from the game. This was a game that I never thought until the third and 11, you know,

deep shot that Rogers took when he had a receiver open in the mid range for a first down, and he took the deep shot to Devante Adams. I never thought for a moment that San Francisco would win this game. All I was hoping for was for the game to stay under, and it was safely under at that point. I just, I can't believe that Green Bay lost a game in which San Francisco had negative 15 yards of total offense on their first four drives of the game, and at halftime had zero points and 43 total yards of offense. I can't believe Green Bay lost a game in which Jimmy Garapolo only through one interception

a bad one at the end of the first half, but had no less than three to four passes that looked like pick sixes and should have been pick sixes. I mean, how many throws did he make where you're like, oh my God, no! And somehow, fortunately, it fell incomplete or somehow got caught.

So I think after the opening drive that Green Bay had in this game, right down the field, 7-0. And then they get the stop. They get a sack on that second drive. You know, they're dominating a little bit up front. San Francisco goes three and out after the third down and long sack of Garapolo. And here comes Green Bay again.

You know, they start at their own 25 and here they come. They're at the San Francisco 42-yard line. They're motoring to what appears to be like a 14-0 lead, and already you've got this sense that, yeah, Green Bay is going to win this game easily. And then Mercedes-Louis fumbles after a catch, and it's recovered by San Francisco. And even though the 49ers generated nothing on their next drive, clearly that changed the game in the moment, because Green Bay never, never generated much offense the rest of the game except for the one drive that ended in field goal. I mean, Green Bay after their first two drives, three-in-out punt, three-and-out punt, six-and-out punt,

and then at the end of the first half, they had that incredible throw from Rogers to, you know, Aaron Jones after he got loose on the right side for 75 yards. And then you had a sack, you had a spike, and you had a blocked field goal to end the half. and, you know, other than that, they had the, you know, the one field goal drive, and that was, you know, it was a decent drive for them, but, you know, he took a big sack on third down. I mean, look, if you only score 10 points in a playoff game, and you're Aaron Rogers, and you're the Green Bay Packers, and you're the, you know, you're playing at home is the one seed, and the opponent's Jimmy Garoppolo. Now, San Francisco's got a great defense.

get me wrong. But when you only score 10 points, it's kind of on you. The special teams hurt him. Block punt touchdown, block field goal, three points off the board. Truth is, 13 points probably would have done it. Probably would have been fine in this game. When they had a chance at the very end on that final third down in 11, he did have a receiver open and took the deep shot to Adams to try to let Adams make a play, but it wasn't the right read. And then amazingly, and to his credit, Jimmy Garoppolo delivered with the game on the line. He had not delivered at all. This is a team that won a playoff game on the road

without scoring an offensive touchdown, with only scoring two offensive field goals, and they won the game. But it was on that last drive, I know he had the big drop by Kittle early, which would have been a big play for him. But first and ten after the third and eleven in the punt with 320 left, kiddle over the middle, quick release, perfect throw 12 yards.

Then on a second and six, he's got Debo Samuel for 14 yards. And then they're running the ball. And that Debo Samuel nine-yard run on third and seven at the Green Bay 38 with a minute three to go. I mean, if not, it's a much longer field goal for Robbie Gold. And then they set it up for the game winner. Amazing, amazing that Green Bay season ended the way it did. I did not see that coming at any point. Garoppolo deserves some credit.

That final drive was very similar to what he's done previously in big spots. Jimmy Garoppolo can look like a backup quarterback in the NFL at times, but he has come through big time in the clutch. They're not in the playoffs if it wasn't for his 88-yard drive against the Rams and the season finale down 24-17 with no timeouts left. 88-yard drive, no timeouts in a minute and a half to tie that game. And then in overtime, you know, getting the interception, I'm sorry, starting overtime and driving 12 plays. 80 yards or whatever it was and getting a field goal for the lead. He did it against Cincinnati in overtime. He did it against Tennessee to tie the game late. He had an unbelievable drive

against the Seahawks late in the game that tied it or that had a chance to tie it at the end of the game. It was like a 98-yard drive and it just barely fell short, but he made one big play after the other. I mean, Jimmy Garoppolo would not be my guy. I'm not about to suggest. that. And I think he's propped up very much by one of the true special offensive coaches and schemes and running attacks and a great defense and the whole thing. But he, you know, we've had this conversation before. I think he's better than most people think. I don't think he's the answer for Washington, okay? But he is, he's delivered in some big time clutch moments. And even though you could argue that, you know, the only reason Dallas had a chance to win was because of Garoppolo, true, that he got very fortunate in the Green Bay game, that he didn't have more than one interception and maybe a pick six or two. True. I mean, but when the game was on the line at the end, he delivered two of his 11 completions in the game, and they were big ones. I mean, this dude was 11 of 19 for 131 yards, got sack four.

four times through at least five balls that were turnover worthy balls, had an 11.9 QBR in the game, back to the QBR for a moment. He did have a couple dropped. Kittle dropped one early. You know, Jennings kind of dropped one on a big third down early. But without Debo Samuel, without Robbie Gold, without Nick Bosa and Armstead, and without really, you know, a couple of big special teams mistakes by Green Bay. San Francisco's home and Green Bay is moving on. It is one of those amazing things about, you know, the one and done format is just everything is magnified. And then all of a sudden, you're in good shape and then just the season ends like that. I mean, it was amazing to watch Rogers and to see the shock. I think the Rogers legacy conversation and anybody saying

that Aaron Rogers, and I saw a lot of it on Twitter from a lot of you who are Washington fans saying, all right, look, I don't want Rogers. You're out of your mind if you don't want Rogers because of that game. You know, Aaron Rogers is now 12 and 10 as a playoff quarterback and has only gone to one Super Bowl, and it was 12 years ago and won it, and hasn't been back since. You know, he's lost in plenty of F.C. title games, you know, some wild ones. He's lost some playoff games in crazy fashion after playing great. You know, after throwing the Hail Mary in the Arizona game, losing to Seattle with the onside kick, you know, Tampa last year after they went for the field goal. This is really the only bad playoff loss I think he's ever had. You know, it's the only, they were favored yesterday,

or Saturday night, by six, five and a half six. They were eight-point favorites against the Giants in the year after the Super Bowl when they lost at home 37 to 20. That was an unexpected result. The Giants that day were great on defense. Eli Manning had one of the best playoff games of his career, and Rogers took a pounding that day from the giant defense. But really, most of the losses he's had in the playoffs have been soul-crushing, losses that weren't his fault. He gets a lot of the blame, though, for Saturday night. Ten points isn't enough. But if you don't think that I would trade two ones and two- twos and give him

a contract for a lot of money for the next two to four, you know, for four years and include Duran Payne in the deal, you're nuts. I would do that in heartbeat. It's not going to happen. He's not coming here. But some of you on the quarterback conference, conversation. Wow. Let's go to Sunday. 30 yards to win the game for this clean team. How? All the game so far, a walk-off field. Yes, all three. Yes. That was Matt Gay with the game winner from 30 yards out to win at 30 to 27 after a blown 24-point lead, but it was the other Matt Stafford who was great in this game. He was so good

this game. I was so happy for him and Sean, as I, I'm always happy for Sean. And most of you know I've been a Stafford guy all along, even though I admit that I did not like the Rams chances. I like Tampa in this game. I didn't think that Stafford had played that well recently, which is true. You know, they just seemed a little bit off. But man, in the biggest game of his career, actually Monday night was a lot of pressure on him. But certainly in another big spot, I mean, he just came out rolling. He was awesome in the first half. You know, if Cam Acres doesn't fumble at the end of the first half,

it might be 27 to 3 at halftime. But they built that lead to 27 to 3. And then just craziness. I mean, just one unbelievable, you know, play after another. Cooper Cup fumbles, you know, and now all of a sudden it's 2713. And then you get the snap that goes way over Stafford's head after the forced fumble that Von Miller had on Brady. And now here comes Tampa, but they're not able to score when Evans gets hit by Weddle, but it's after the play on the fourth and 14.

And then amazingly, Matt Gay, one of the best kickers in the league, misses from 47 yards out short, short from 47. yards out. And then here comes Tampa. They get stopped again. They didn't score to make it 27 to 20 until there were three minutes, 20 seconds left in the game and it was on a 55-yard bomb to Evans. And then came the Cam Acres fumble. One first down away. And maybe even if he doesn't get the first down, a punt, and then it's going to be, you know, Tampa with the ball with a minute 20 or minute 15 to go in no timeouts. But instead they get the short field. They tie it up at 27, By the way, Chris Collinsworth, I mean, Mr. owner of pro football focus, Mr. always bringing in analytics in numbers, he struggles with the numbers, man.

I mean, he's done this a lot, but when the Rams had the ball up 27 to 20, and the Patriots were out of timeouts at that point, you know, with 315 left, he didn't understand that the Rams could snap it twice, run it twice, and then run their third play after the two-minute warning. He said, you know, the Buccaneers can still get the ball back with two minutes to go, you know, even if they run it three times, no, no, no, no. They were going to a second down run. The Acres run that he fumbled on, that play, if he doesn't fumble, that ball, that clock goes down to the two-minute warning, and they're running a third down in like three or four from their own 27-yard line or whatever.

And they would have run the ball, I think. I don't know, maybe McVeigh would have let Stafford roll out and either run it or throw a nice easy throw for a first down if they had it on a bootleg. But if they run it, then you're going to punt and the Buccaneers are going to get the ball back with like a minute, you know, call it a minute 15 somewhere on there, minute 10, depending on how long the third down play and how long the punt, you know, was. And, you know, they would have had to go the distance with no timeouts in that spot. But the fumble, great play by Sue. And then, the incredible answer from Matt Stafford against a corner slot blitz, zero coverage blitz,

and he throws it to where you have to throw it against zero coverage. You got your best receiver in man coverage, and he's got two steps, and he puts it in a perfect spot. Look, the throw before that to cup was huge, and I thought that the throw before that was a massive play in that. in that Cup got out of bounds. Because if Cup didn't get out of bounds on that first throw on the second 11 after the first down sack, which, by the way, Stafford fumbled all. Although I think the knee was down, he recovered it anyway. But if Cup doesn't get out of bounds on that play, well, now you've got to get a spike,

which would have come with, you know, roughly 15 seconds, and the ball would have been at their 44. You could still get something down the middle of the field, but Gay at that point needed more, you know, needed closer than 47 yards. He had been short from 47 in the same direction. But I thought Cup getting out of bounds was massive. And then the next play, the bomb to Cup versus the Blitz. You know, Bulls, I love Todd Bowles as a defensive coordinator.

And if he had gotten home on that blitz and it sacked, you know, Stafford, and the ball had come out and somehow they got it and they win by a field goal, you know, there's so much praising. are so much criticism of too much risk taken defensively and too much criticism of sort of the prevent stuff that you saw in the Buffalo game. But Stafford came through. And as I've said for many years about Stafford,

I've always felt like he is a franchise quarterback, that he is a top ten-thish kind of quarterback, you know, on a really good team, well-coached team. I don't put him in the class of Rogers or Brady, you know, in recent years, or Wilson, you know, or Mahomes or Allen, you know, or I don't, but I think he's always been, always even in Detroit in that next group. He's a, you know, and when we used to talk about him versus cousins, I've always liked Stafford more than cousins. I think Stafford's more of a baller. I think Stafford's more of a creator. And he just needed a team and a good coach and

a good organization, and he's one game away from participating in a Super Bowl in his first year in a real organization. And he came through. You know, it's interesting. I didn't think he, I thought he played great Monday night against the Cardinals, but I think that was more about what the Cardinals were on Monday night. They were a mess. And up 27 to 3, up 27 to 6, if the game ends up 27 to 13. You know, you're like, wow, the Rams dominated. Aaron Donald was phenomenal. Jalen Ramsey was phenomenal. They were great. The Rams were. And by the way, the replacement for Whitworth was outstanding. And the bucks were, you know, the bucks were banged up in this one. But it's almost like the New England comeback gave Stafford this moment, you know, which, you know, adds to him getting

to the conference championship game because he was so good in this game. And he was not anywhere near at fault for the blown lead. Cup fumbled, acres fumbled, snap way over his head, kicker misses a 47-yard field goal short. I know in the second half they weren't as productive, but they weren't as productive because they had three turnovers. You know, and they missed a field goal. You know, in the game, the Rams only punted in the football game, How many times do they punt? Hecker punted.

All right, he punted four times. But still, Stafford, 28 to 38, 366 yards, two touchdowns, and the big throw, the two big throws to cup to get him in field goal range for the game winner, 30 to 27. You know, that game, I was rooting for the under the whole game. And then once Tampa Bay came back, I was rooting for Tampa Bay to win in cover because I gave them out of the smell test pick. I wanted to get one of the two.

but I was not upset that Stafford and McVeyer moving on. I'm happy for Matt Stafford. I think there are lots of quarterbacks that are really good quarterbacks that have just been in bad situations. And I think I've always felt like the quarterback win-loss stat is just not nearly as important as I think some of you do. I think some of you understand it. I'm not saying that, you know, the greatest quarterbacks elevate their teams to victory.

There's a lot of that. Matt Stafford is not an elite quarterback, but he's a very good quarterback, and he's been that for a while. Now we get to the last game, and this was the field goal that forced overtime. 49 yards to send him to overtime. Harrison Buckham. I'm so nervous. So hundreds of thousands around the planet. The kick is good.

It's going overtime. How did the Chiefs get into field goal range in 13 seconds? Harrison Butker didn't have to kick a 59-yarder or 64-yarder to tie the game. He kicked a 49-yard field goal. 49-yard field goals for Harrison Butker. I mean, that's, you know, what is that, 80%. It's got to be in the 8 out of 10 range for him. Even though he did in this game miss a field goal and also miss an extra point in the game.

An amazing ending, an amazing final two minutes. Before we get to that, though, I want to talk about the game before that because it was a really good football game. You know, it wasn't a classic, but it was a really good football game. One of the interesting things about this game is how fast moving this game was. This game was incredibly quick. This game's first half was going to end in about an hour and five minutes until the Chiefs, until they got a touchdown on the Buffalo drive in the final two minutes of the first half. And then Kansas City responded with a drive that got into range where Butker actually missed a 50-yard field goal at the end of the first half.

but the reason the game was so fast moving, and by the way, the reason the under 54 looked pretty good, is that the opening drive, I mean, the ball was never hitting the ground. Neither quarterback was throwing incomplete passes. And then they were, you know, having long drives. Buffalo started 13-play 71-yard drive, six minutes, 57 seconds. They went for two fourth downs, including the fourth and goal, touchdown by Singletary 7-0. Here comes Kansas City back. 11 plays 74 yards. and a drive that took five minutes and 37 seconds. So basically the first quarter was over with two drives for all intents and purposes. You know, then you actually had some punts in there with teams that hadn't punted a whole lot.

I mean, Buffalo didn't punt once in seven offensive drives, seven touchdowns against the Patriots and the wild card round. But it was incredible, too, that both quarterbacks were doing it with their legs. in the first half. The two touchdown drives on the drives that made it 7-7. I mean, it was Josh Allen's legs and Patrick Mahomes' legs that basically moved the chains and created the opportunities.

I mean, one of the amazing things about the final box score of this game is the produced yardage by both of them. Josh Allen, 329 yards and 68 yards rushing. He was their leading rusher. 11 carries 68 yards. And by the way, these aren't,

scrambles. You know, Buffalo uses Josh Allen in a lot of the same ways that Norv Turner and other used Cam Newton. They use them on power quarterback sweeps. They use them on quarterback counters. They use them on design runs. And by the way, not all the design runs are option runs. I mean, 11 carries 68 yards for this load of a dude. And meantime, Mahomes, had 69 yards rushing on seven carries. Most of his scramble version. He had that 34-yard run on the opening drive and then had another one that moved the chains. Amazing.

Let's move to the second half. You know, the third quarter is flying along too. You know, you get a long eight-minute drive by Kansas City to start the third quarter that ends in a field goal. Then you get another long drive. and McColl Hardman scores on, I thought he was, I thought he was penned in and stopped. And then somehow with his speed to speed on Kansas City with Hill and Hardman in particular, is just unbelievable. And then Butker misses the extra point, but it's 2314.

And then that was it for Buffalo, like this dinking and dunking and running. And, you know, the whole thing, it ends with the 75-yard bomb from Allen to Davis. And it's 2321. And then we get the frantic final two. minutes. With the Chiefs, by the way, being held on that drive that led to a field goal, 26-21. By the way, on that drive, when they were third and one at the Buffalo eight-yard line, something like that, when they went with Blake Bell under center and that read option, I mean, look, I think almost all of the stuff the Kansas City does, more of it

pays off than doesn't. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and criticize their creativity. But it's third and one. You got Mahomes. Why are you bringing in Blake Bell to run the Reed option and he pitches it to Mick McKinnon. And Jackson, by the way, made a great play on that to stop him for a four-yard loss. That held him to a field goal. Kept Buffalo in a 26-21 game instead of being down 30 to 21 midway through the fourth quarter. That was huge. And then the drive that was forever. They basically could have, and it looked like they were on the verge of taking it down the field and running the clock out and winning the game on a walk off touchdown. But little did we know what was in store after this. 17 plays, 75 yards.

It included so many Josh Allen runs designed and otherwise. The fourth and four where he's flushed from the pocket and it looks like he's going to get sacked with about two and a half minutes to go and he scrambles for the first down was an incredible play. And then it sets up, you know, they get to a second and ten at the Kansas City 34 and they run. Alan on a designed run for four yards. When he got up from that run, I noticed that he was exhausted. He had been running all day, and they had run him like five times already on this drive, both designed and his scrambles. And if you go back and you watch what happened, on the next play, it was third down and six, two minutes and 30 seconds to go,

and Allen to me looked exhausted and he drops back and he just immediately dumps it down to Singletary and Singletary gets blown up for a six, seven yard loss and that sets up fourth down and 13. He didn't look downfield. I don't think it was a screen. I think it was the checkdown throw. It could have been a screen. I have to go back and look at it again. The bottom line was after that completion, which was for a big loss that set up fourth and 13,

which they obviously had to get, the clock went down to the two-minute warning. And I think having that break at the two-minute warning was huge for Allen. I thought he looked exhausted, as great as he had been. And on 4th and 13, Gabe Davis is wide open for a 27-yard touchdown catch. Amazing!

But even more amazing was the two-point conversion, where he extends, he extends, he extends. I don't know how he extended it the way he extended. it and then the throw he made to digs for the three-point lead. Unbelievable. And it's 29 to 26. But that was obviously just the beginning. Here come the Chiefs back.

And it's second in ten with a minute to go. And then he hits Tyree Kill. And he'll, I mean, the most dangerous person in the NFL, I think, with the ball in his hands. Although I think, I think Jamar Chase might be clear. and there he goes down the sideline and he taunts before he got into the end zone. That was not flagged. He's flashing the peace sign. He got fined for this earlier this year. They didn't throw the flag even though there's been an emphasis on taunting all year long. I hate that role, the emphasis on taunting, but it's amazing. They didn't throw the flag.

And from what I understand, it would have been from the spot of the infraction. It would not have been a touchdown. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't have scored after a 15-yard penalty. They would have been still down there close enough. And then here comes on the response. A minute two left, and here comes Buffalo down the field. One throw after another. And then the touchdown throw to Davis with 13 seconds to go that gives Buffalo the lead. And Western New York is celebrating big time.

So, 13 seconds to go. Nant said it. Jim Nance said it. I tweeted it out. You cannot kick this ball into the end zone and give them the ball at the 25 with 13 seconds left. You've got to kick it down there and force a return. First of all, I was surprised that Kansas City had Pringle down there, not Hill or Hardman. But the kick into the end zone was a big mistake. 13 seconds. Mahomes Hill, that group, three timeouts left. You know, it's three. three snaps potentially. You can't allow that. Now, ended up being two snaps, but you could have, depending on how the plays were run, it could have been potentially three offensive snaps before a Hail Mary or before, you know, a long kick.

Anyway, big mistake, not to squibb it down there. I'm not suggesting to squibb it short. I'm talking about one of those punch kicks that hits set around the 20-yard line bounces down to the 15, is picked up and some clock burns. And you have to kick it to that area because the returner can't have the option of falling down and giving himself up so that the clock immediately stops.

He's not going to do that at the 15-yard line or the 10-yard line. 13 seconds left 25-yard line after the kick out of the end zone, which is a mistake. That first play is a really good play by Kansas City. Soft coverage. You're playing, you know, that cloud shell in the 15-yard area, and they're playing, I think, two-deep, three-deep behind that. And they throw the quick ball to hill.

He explodes vertically up the field. No zinging and zagging. Gets as much as he can get timeout. They get 19 yards on that play in five seconds. There are eight seconds left the balls at the 44-yard line. And then everybody's talking about, what do you need? How far can Butker kick it? You know, can you get a 10-yard completion to their 45-yard line roughly to make it a 60-263-yard? He's got that kind of a leg. And somehow Mahomes finds Kelsey in a big open space on a throw for 25 yards. I can't explain that one. I don't know how he got open. The linebacker looked like he looked with Mahomes' eyes to the side of the field that Hill was on. but it's Kelsey. It's Kelsey. And he had wide open space for an easy 25-yard pitch catch.

You know, when he hit the ground, he gave himself up and they called time out, there were three seconds left. They basically, in two plays, got 44 yards in 10 seconds. That's amazing. Butker comes on, kicks it. And then you get to the overtime. And look, I am, not one of those that's going to sit here and tell you that I need a rule to change so that this never happens again, that you never leave Josh Allen on the sideline without a chance to respond. You had the rule change, you know, whatever it was 10 years ago now. These games used to end on field goals. They couldn't. To be honest with you, back then, I had a problem with the rule change then. I liked sudden death. But the kickers have gotten to the point where, you know,

you only have to go from, say, your own 25 to the other team's 40 now. So you really only need 35 yards before you get a field goal attempt. The legs of these kickers, the indoor arenas, you had to create a situation where a field goal on an opening drive didn't end it. And they changed that rule. And now you need a touchdown to end it. And, you know, the Patriots did it to the chiefs a few years ago. And the chiefs wanted the rule changed. Now they won the toss.

They go down the field, they score, and of course I would have loved to have seen Josh Allen gotten the ball back. But I would have loved to have seen him gotten the ball back after they forced a field goal. I was hoping that Kelsey had one of those feet out of bounds when we saw the replay, but it was still only going to be second in goal. They still probably would have scored. I mean, the only thing that I will tell you is this. If they're going to change the overtime rule, just play a 15-minute overtime or a 12-minute overtime. I don't want to see a 10-minute overtime.

I've made my feelings clear about the regular season overtime rule. I don't think it should be 10 minutes. I think it should be 15 minutes. And the reason simply put is if you get a 7-and-a-half-minute drive and you kick a field goal in the game doesn't end, the other team doesn't have ample time to win the game with a normal drive. You know, they did it for safety reasons because they don't want these games going on a long time. But most games, you know, end before 10 minutes is up anyway.

But play a full 15-minute overtime, and whatever happens, happens. If one team scores 14 points and the other team scores 10, so be it. But play real football on a real field with real special teams, no gimmicks, no college rule. I hate it. It's stupid, especially with the dumb two-point thing after the first two overtimes. But if it stays this way, I'm fine with this too. Buffalo, it's not about, you know, get a stop.

Because really at that point, I don't know if anybody was capable of stopping the other. I think the coin toss actually in this game had a lot to do with the outcome. But sorry, these are the rules. They shouldn't have given up, you know, they shouldn't have given up 44 yards on two plays in 10 seconds at the end of regulation. But, I mean, I'm open to a new rule, but to me, the only answer is to just play a full period. And then if you're still tied, you go to a second overtime. You know, play a 12-minute overtime. You know, six-minute drives or, you know, if somebody gets a six-minute drive that ends in a touchdown, you've got six minutes to answer. You throw a two-minute warning in there, you give everybody an ample number

of timeouts, and you play an extra period. Now, safety reasons are the reasons that they haven't avoided that. So I think you're going to end up with this forever. Massive, massive turn of events after the touchdown pass to Davis that made it 3633. An incredible ending, one of the most exciting finishes to an NFL postseason game, the most incredible final two minutes of a postseason game I have ever seen. Again, I don't know that it's the greatest start-to-finish playoff game of all time. I think Miami Chargers, January of 1982, is that for me, but this one will not be forgotten. Twenty-five points over the final two minutes and in overtime is just incredible. with the way that ended, 25 points, by the way, in the final two minutes of regulation,

excuse me, the most ever in the postseason. And the two quarterbacks were just exceptional. Josh Allen was great. Mahomes was great. Their combined 707 passing yards and seven touchdowns with their also combined 137 rushing yards is just something I don't know if we'll ever see. and yet Mahomes is going to face Burrow, and the last time they met, they combined for 705 yards passing and six touchdowns. My initial blush on these two championship games,

Kansas City minus seven in the first one, the Rams minus three and a half in the second one. I kind of like the AFC underdog Cincinnati, and I really do not have a feel for the NFC championship game. I definitely like the under in the AFC title game, whatever it is. I think it is 54, 53 and a half. Both of those games yesterday were within seconds of staying under. 2621, that was under 54, and Buffalo had to convert the fourth and 13.

If they didn't, that would have stayed under. And at 2713, even at 2720, it was under in the other game at 48, and Acres fumbles. and it gets wild at the end. What a great weekend of football. Scott Van Pelt will join me next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. It doesn't cost you a thing. Also rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify.

That's a big help as well. As mentioned, Scott Van Pelt is with us on this Monday following one of the most incredible weekends of NFL postseason football we've ever seen. just went through each of the four games and talked about each of the four. I wanted you to come on because there's so much from this to just have a conversation by myself. What did you think? I mean, I think anybody, Kevin, and Stanford, Steve and I will do this later today. Anybody who does a podcast will be doing some version of this, just this sort of shaking your head, laughing out loud. and trying to figure out sort of where this fits in all time with what we've ever seen.

And you and I've had this conversation a lot. We're not great at having context in the moment, you know, whether you want to call it recency bias, prisoner the moment, whatever. But if we just push back and try to be reasonable, or let's say we put on really, really sort of skeptical glasses and got the sharpest pencil to grade what we just saw, at minimum you had three consecutive road teams win on field goals at the gun followed by a team who tied the game in 13 seconds on a field goal at the gun and subsequently won it in overtime so at minimum that's what you had but when you frame it with who who beat who how when you

when the last game that was the most anticipated game of the weekend was a the chiefs and the bills, and then it was that. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there's just never been a divisional round that was at that level of play and of drama. And what Allen and Mahomes did, I mean, my God, I saw a stat of, Alan, I think, went 64 for 82 for 970 yards, nine touchdowns, ran for 134. and he's going to play. It isn't going to play.

I mean, he was, let's just take him. He was so good. And the last two times that he touched the football, he, on fourth and 13, threw that ball to Gabe Davis, who was unstoppable for a touchdown. And then in a minute, after a couple fourths, another fourth down, like runs, another touchdown. another touchdown with 13 seconds.

And it wasn't enough. And I don't know what you do with that if you're a Bill's fan. I don't know you do with that if you're Josh Allen. Because the guy on the other side didn't go in anywhere. You know, it's Ryan Clark made the point on my show last night because, you know, there's a lot of basketball players that, you know, didn't win titles because they were around when Jordan was. There's a lot of, I'll put it in my, you know, frame of reference.

A lot of golfers out there that would have done a lot more winning in majors if they weren't, you know, in the same air as Tiger Woods. And maybe that's just what Mahomes is going to be, is this obstacle that there's no kind of getting over. But I just couldn't believe what, that it was just relentless. It wouldn't stop being incredible. I saw your tweet about what wins the next game kick or is there another game because you just didn't want it to stop, you know? Yeah, I mean, I mentioned that I don't think in, you know, you know, you know, you know, you You know, you and I, I remember like you do, a lot of these games and a lot of these weekends.

I don't think there's ever been a divisional round, like the four games this weekend like we had. I mean, there isn't. I mean, you know, the aggregate 15-point, you know, margin of difference is the closest or the fewest it's ever been. We had all four games end on the final play of the game with a score. you know, three field goals. And then we had a field goal that ended regulation and then a touchdown that ended the game in overtime. The championship Sunday from a few years ago when the Patriots, you know, won in overtime

at Arrowhead in Mahomes' first championship game, which followed, remember, the controversial Rams win on the non-call also, you know, in overtime. We had the back-to-back championship overtime games. That was one of the greatest, and the greatest championship Sunday of all time. Who knows, maybe we'll get that this weekend. But it was incredible. By the way, ironically, and I mentioned this in the open, you know, after that game, the Chiefs complained about the overtime rule.

You know, they thought they wanted Mahomes to get another shot. I'll get to that here momentarily. But yeah, it was incredible. Like, the final two minutes, we've never seen anything like that. And the whole recency bias, like I, just two weeks ago, after the Raiders' Chargers season finale. I said, I hate when I do this, but this will be one of the most memorable regular season games of all time.

I can tell you that right now that I'm never going to forget this Raiders Chargers game and everything that it had to it, the Herbert drives that forced overtime, and then the whole context of, you know, if they both tie, they both go, et cetera. And then here we are two weeks later and we have this one. I don't think, well, I know this. I've never seen a final two minutes of a playoff game like that in history. I don't think, though, start to finish. It's the greatest playoff game I've ever seen.

I've always felt that the Chargers Dolphins game in January of 82 that went from 24-0 Chargers to 3831 Dolphins to overtime to, you know, in the heat in the Orange Bowl, double over time, you know, the incredible performance by Kellyn Winslow, who blocked two field goals in addition to having, you know, 13 catches. I think that's the greatest start to finish postseason game, but we'll never see a final two minutes like we saw last night, or we never have up until this point. Right. I mean, it's unlikely to think that you'd see that. It was funny. I was talking to my wife today, And she said, yeah, she said, when my family group text starts, when my mom's like, who's watching this game? It's like your cue that maybe you're missing something.

So she says, I'm rewinding it. I'm trying to figure out, wait, it's 26, 21. Like, the final was 42-36. I mean, there's no way that that can happen. But again, that's where Josh Allen, what he did is just, is preposterous. After the two-minute warning, he gave him the lead, then Tyree killed. then him, then the 13-second thing. And look, there's, you know, that's the place where I think you can really point out where

Buffalo tactically made errors. Whether you kick it in a way that forces them to field it and bleed clock, whether you do that thing where you tackle their guys off the line of scrimmage, which costs you five yards, it would have run some time. You can only do that once. But there's things they could have done, or you could have just stopped them. You could have just not allowed them to get like 50 yards and two plays, which set up Butker. Because then you put yourself in a spot where if you lose the toss, then you can lose the game, and they did.

And it's crushing. It's just, you know, and I'm sure this will shock your listeners, you know. You know who I thought of was Cravis against Michigan State? Because if you go back and you look at that, like the last, I think the last six shots he took in that game, he made, and that was where Maryland erased like an 18-point deficit to state in a tournament game. And the last two shots he took gave Marilyn the lead.

And then, of course, they lost at the buzzer, and it's just it's over. Different here, but I just mean that when excellence was required, Josh Allen delivered absolute brilliance. And, you know, if your Buffalo, I mean, is bitterly

disappointed as you have to be. I would think today you just kind of smile and think, all right, well, that's our guy. We got that dude, which means, again, we're going to have to deal with Mahomes. Okay, so be it. But we got that guy, which means we're going to have a chance. But my God, what Mahomes is able to do, you know, how they got down there. You know, there's the overtime question.

You and I think we both hate college overtime. We've covered this before. I think just put 10 minutes on the clock. You don't want to play 15 fine. But put 10 minutes on the clock and say, we're going to play 10 minutes. whoever's headed at the end of the game. Yeah,

that's funny because I don't think we've had, well, I'm sure we've had these conversations before, but that's what, I mean, I'm fine with the rule being where it is. Yeah, and I'm not anti that either

because it's like, just to real quickly, stop them in 13 seconds, okay? Yeah. Let's start there. Don't, don't give up,

don't give up that much yardage that easily and surrender to the lead in 13 seconds. Don't, don't do that. But then, the overtime, you have a chance to stop them. Don't give up a touchdown. There's that. There's that also.

I just, I'm not, I'm not averse to the idea that you ought to have an opportunity to answer that, particularly in a game like that yesterday because then it just would have been more fun because now we get to see Alan go try to do it. You know what I mean? Like, all right, let's see if you can go down the field to tie him up. I bet he could have. Yeah, the funny thing, look, every game is different. Most games do not get determined by a touchdown on the opening drive. Most overtimes don't. In fact, before we came to this rule where a field goal could end it on the opening drive,

the fact was, you know, it was less than 50% of the time that the team that won the toss won the game on the opening drive. And yet we, you know, we upgraded in part because, you know, field goal kickers started kicking longer kicks, which meant you only had to travel a short, you know, amount of space. and, you know, ending it on a field goal, it really is now unfair. Going into that overtime, though, last night, I certainly felt in the moment that the team that won the coin toss was more likely than not going to win the game with a touchdown with the way we had just witnessed the last two minutes.

But what I was going to say to you is I don't have a problem with the current rule right now. But I, and I, maybe we have talked about this and maybe I got it from you. I don't know. But my only solution would be, let's play 15 minutes. Let's play 12 minutes. I don't like 10 personally, just like I don't like 10 in the regular season because you can have a 7.5 minute drive and score touchdown. And then the other team doesn't actually have the same kind of opportunity.

If the idea is to create, you know. Well, then don't let them go to seven and a half minute drive. Well, then don't change the rule in general. just stop them from scoring a touchdown. Well, but that creates the strategy of ball possession and clock bleeding. I mean, it creates, I've seen the objection that, well, the team that guy that second would have an advantage because they know what they needed to do. Okay, well, the cool, then the strategy would be to defer.

You win the overtime toss. I'm going to defer because then I know what I need to do. And then if you got a touchdown, then I would use all four down to try to match you. So fine, it just brings more strategy. or it can stay the way it is. I'm not troubled by it. Really, it's not a fuel goal, which, particularly now, I mean, just look at the level of kicking. Yeah, well, that's why you had to move on from that.

And this was a good, this was a good change, and you've got too many indoor, you know, environments and guys kicking from 60. bottom line is whatever they can keep it the same way I'm fine with that if they went to let's play 15 minutes or 12 minutes or whatever and whatever it is at the end of it of course that brings in the whole safety thing which is why they move the 15 back to 10 in the regular season but just whatever you do don't go to the college rules because that to me and this is a very subjective thing and a lot of people love it I hate it I hate it especially the way they've changed it now to this two point conversion after the second overtime. But we saw real football, and you continue to see real football rather than gimmicky football. But that was incredible. That was incredible. And I was so hoping Kelsey didn't get both feet in because I wanted to see a stop and a field goal attempt and I wanted to see Josh Allen back with the ball. Sure, and again, guaranteeing at least the opportunity to possess it would have seemed more equitable in a game like that

because whoever lost the toss, particularly if it was Buffalo given the way their defense had to be out there as much because the scoring happened so quickly. And then they were the last ones on the field. You know, at some point the adrenaline and the emotion had to take some kind of a toll and the fact that you're up against that offense that stresses you the way they do. Yeah, it would have felt better. And you're right. The college over time.

There are people that like it. It's exciting. Sure, but as I've said, often, football is a time game on a hundred-yard field. And then you get to college overtime, and it is neither. It's a 25-yard field. There's no clock. It's stupidity. It's not a football game.

They'd never do that in the NFL. Never. They'd never reduce 75 yards to the field and eliminate a clock. And the whole two-point thing this year was, I'm convinced. that people, because people don't, people hear like rule changes, but they don't like, they don't really digest them. And then that Illinois Penn State can happen and people, people were just laughing, like, wait, this is really what you're doing? This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. So clearly that would never happen. But look, talking about what should or what might

or whatever, all these things are, you know, are hypotheticals, what actually happened this weekend. And the fact is nuts. And what happened yesterday at the end takes the whole Tampa game. We have it until we could. I'm going to. That game was that, okay, well, that game was nuts. And I'm happy for, I know Matthew Stafford and I like him and I'm glad they didn't lose because it would have been like, well, Stafford. And this is a whole court, like the quarterback stats is a thing, right? So Josh Allen got a loss in that playoff game. Sure, that makes sense. Hang that on him. I know. I know. You would put, you would have put a lot. lost next to Josh Al's name is fine. Well, look, I've gotten into it with so many people over the years about Matt Stafford.

And I don't understand she and your love for Matt Stafford. Do you understand what his record is? And I'm like, just stop. And the irony of that, of course, is that going into this game, I didn't think that they were on the same page. I didn't think that he had been playing that well. And I didn't like their chances. That was the one game that on Friday, I'm like, I'd be kind of surprised. I wouldn't be surprised with any result or shot.

But I just don't, there's something a little bit off with the Rams. Like even Monday night, I thought that was more about the Cardinals. But I'm so happy for him. I wanted to just stick with those, something that you said for a moment because, you know, it's like the all politics is local thing about the Gravis reference, the Corey Lucius shot, which I think for the two of us, it may be the most devastating, you know, sports rooting moment of our lifetime. It's right up there anyway when, you know, a beloved player like Gravis Vasquez had scored 14 of the team's final 16 points.

They had taken the lead and they were about to go on to the Sweet 16 with a chance at a final four run in his final game. And then all of a sudden, Cory Lucius, and we know what had to happen. Tomizzo calls timeout. They don't acknowledge it. You know, the ball whizzes by Draymond Green's head. Delvon Row. Delvon Rowe and Drame and Corey Lucius catches it and throws in a three. Why are you doing this? I don't know.

Stop, just stop. But what it is is it's a really good, the fine. It's what Madden used to say all the time, like he would say, it's the finality of it all. You know, it's like, it's what makes sports the greatest reality show, especially this time of year, because, like, look, the Packers game on Saturday night. not one for one second until the third and 11 deep shot that Rogers threw did I think Green Bay was going to lose that game. It just wasn't a game that it seemed like they were going to lose. It was a weird game. You know, the weather turned bad, but they're just, you know, the 49ers had blocked a field goal.

They had blocked a punt. I mean, Garoppolo had thrown like seven pick sixes that didn't get picked sixth. And it just seemed like there was no way. And then all of a sudden, it's over. And I saw it, by the way, in my son, Corbyn, who, as you know, is a massive Aaron Rogers and Packers fan. He was devastated. And it's just for Bill's fans last night after he threw that touchdown pass with 13 seconds to go, to lose that game was just one of this.

That will be, I don't know, Norwood Wide Right or last night gone in 13 seconds. I mean, for a Bill's fan, it'll be tough. Yeah, I mean, and the Norwood thing was longer ago than we remember it in our minds. You know, there's a lot of people that don't remember it, and certainly don't remember it as clearly because it didn't happen yesterday. But you're right about the Green Bay thing, too, because that was, even after that, and have ever seen a punk and block like that? Like, it was just so, it was so unusual.

Yeah. Not bad. just not one person on the field had any idea with the ball. Right, right. And then when it finally landed, and you know what? It was interesting. It was only about the five or seven or eight, whatever yard line. But in the snow with it spinning around, who knows what way,

they needed to pick that up and score because I don't know if they would have gotten a touchdown if they did. Right. And so the fact that they were able to tie it on the play was crazy. and then to your point where you just think, well, Rogers will figure it out. See, I didn't. I didn't think that because the Packers have had a whole lot of losing games that you just don't necessarily know how they have, particularly at Lambo. And this isn't just on Rogers that happened under Farrv where, I mean, how do they have none since 2010,

which, by the way, was the last time that both ones lost at home in the divisional round. And they were one of the teams that went on the road and won. Atlanta beat the crap out of the Falcons. But since then, they haven't been to a Super Bowl, which is, if you'd bet money on that day that Rogers, you know, 12 years later, it wouldn't have been to another Super Bowl. You'd have won all the money in the world.

But it just speaks to how difficult it is to win games, how thin the margin is between these teams, as was evidenced from Cincinnati and Nashville on Saturday afternoon through last night era. There's very little difference between these teams. and the competitive sort of want to that exist in teams like Tampa Bay, even down 14, where it just felt like for every opportunity the Rams were trying to give them. Tampa just wasn't capable of taking it yesterday until three and a half minutes left.

And all of a sudden they're like, oh boy, right? You know, and Evans gets the one that Acres fumbles, and you're thinking, holy shit, they're going to lose this game. And then Stafford makes a great throw. And Tim Hasselbeck made an interesting point with a sports center. He said, listen, you know, Stafford, has to make the throw. And he gets blasted by Sue coming right up the middle.

But if you go zero, it eliminates any thinking from a quarterback's mind. He just knows. He knows, he knows I got one guy. I know who it is. By the way, he's the best receiver in the NFL this year, or at least the most prolific. And you just make the throw because you don't have to read. If you drop eight, now I've got to read, I've got to read. I've got to figure out where I'm going in that.

There's no read. It's just, there goes cup. I'm going to take a shot, but I'm going to find. So be it. And he made the throw. but I mean had they lost I don't know

I don't know what you do with that either because losing a 14 point lead like that then you got to lose then you got to look at all the strategy 14 point lead 24 point lead well you're right I'm talking about 14

yeah later yeah but it was 27 to 3 yeah which I understand I understand but I mean look when it's Brady it doesn't take a lot to bring up the 283 at the

at the Super Bowl but people forget every little thing that had to happened in that game for it to go wrong for Atlanta, but it all did. I don't know. Let me just, again, from every single game on, the snow and Lambo and Rogers get knocked out and the glee people seem to take with Rogers because of his, you know, his vaccine stances this year and all of the sort of, you know, thinking out loud that he's done.

I don't enjoy the way people want to dance on guys, you know. because of, there's plenty of people and athletes who have taken stances through the years that might have been, others might have disagreed with,

but now there's this sort of celebratory part of it that's just, I don't know, I find it, I find it just, I'm necessarily, it's not the right word.

No, maybe you should think of that. I just focus on the, I just focus on the games and whatever. I guess I get it. You know, Rogers is, you know,

he's done a lot of thinking out loud, which I find it interesting. I find, he's let us in. Yeah, I mean, I like Aaron Rogers. I mean, I'm laughing and I laughed much of the morning on the radio at the various people that suggested that, you know, on Twitter after Saturday night. Well, you know, let's not go Rogers, you know, as Washington fans. I'm like, are you guys insane?

I mean, I would give up three ones in Chase Young tomorrow for Aaron Rogers and a new contract. I mean, you guys are. Wait, wait, wait. people. There are people that dumb. There are people that dumb, honestly, after the game on Saturday night, that wouldn't take Aaron Rogers. But I want to mention something real quickly. You met back to the plate of cup in the Tampa Rams game. You know, Bowles is getting crushed for, you know, a corner slot, you know, zero coverage blitz, you know, play there. And at the same time, Bubble, is getting crushed for playing it too soft at the end. And, you know, like Coach Thompson used to say, and I love quoting him, because he gave me a lot of things to think about over the many years. I was I was bitching one day on radio about, you know, what I usually bitch about was somebody's clock management and somebody calling a timeout at the wrong time. And he just came in and he said, motherfucker, if you were in the middle of this game, he's like, your balls would be so tight.

you'd forget everything. And I just started laughing and I go, well, I don't think I would, but I understand what you're saying. And it's like, you know, unless you're in the arena and you're in the mix of all of that that's going on, you really don't know. Now, some things I think are obvious, but in the case of Bowls, like if he gets home on Stafford and he sacks him and there's a fumble and all of a sudden they're like, oh my God, that's the way you want to go down. You want to go down aggressively. And I've always thought,

you know, go down aggressively, make them, I hate prevent, you know, and I don't know how Kelsey got wide open there. That was insane. The first play to Tyree Kill is a beauty because he gets 19 yards in five seconds. And yet, but they were playing so deep in that cloud coverage underneath and then, you know, the cover too deep. And it's like, that was a pretty tricky play. That was a pretty clever play. The next one, I don't know how Kelsey gets open, but, you know, it's not like Sean McDermott and Leslie Frazier are dummies. You know, I mean, somebody may have made a mistake on the field. I mean, a player may have played the coverage incorrectly. But on the book, in the bucks case, Ariens alluded to it. I mean, you saw a lot of David

didn't blitz. He didn't blitz. And so there was confusion. And that speaks to something I talked about last week with Dallas. And, you know, people destroy McCarthy. And McCarthy invites plenty of it with clock. He does. He does. It doesn't do a great, doesn't do a great job with that. And if you want to point out the mistakes that were made in game or up to the last seconds, fine. But, and I said this to Steve, I said, I've never in my life run a two-minute drill. And I've certainly never been on the field the playoff game with 14 seconds left at no time out. And I said, It gets completely foobar out there, doesn't it? It goes, oh, God, no one knows what's going on because it's happening in real time.

And you are in the arena, and you're trying to process this all in real time. And I think the best teams have had it drilled into their heads exactly what to do. You know, the situation calls for this and we execute the place. But now it's happening, and now we're out here in real time. And now all of a sudden, oh, shit, they just got 19 yards on Tyrese. kill and we got to worry about him because if you get him running across the field sideways, we already saw he could score from anywhere. So I get that they stress you and make you maybe vulnerable in ways that other teams might

not. And again, Hasselback, I thought showed a pretty good job the way that they, the way the chief set up that play to Kelsey where they had a grouping on the right that occupied the middle linebacker where he was kind of leaning left, which opened up that gap. But I don't know. I don't know how that you get that many yards that quickly, again, which opens the door for Butker to, it's a 49-yarder, which has become, think about what McPherson did from the Bengals. I mean, he hit, none of those were easy fuel goals, and he hit them all like they were nothing.

Nothing. And it's funny, Kevin, I go back. And then Matt Gaye was short from 47. Which, that's the weirdest thing that happened this weekend from a kicking statement. Like, how'd that happen? But I was just going to say, I go back. to a time. We had a kicker with an MVP, which in retrospect is just hysterical. But bless his heart as good as mostly was, with 19 socks on and a square-toed boot, like the idea that

he was going to trot out there from 49 and hit it? No, it didn't feel like it feels now. It's a layup for these dudes. You know, Butker actually missing one was kind of a headline. You know, when he hit the post before halftime. So, I mean, you just, you didn't even, you didn't even entertain the thought that he might miss. And he didn't. Yeah. The funny thing about Mosley is he actually was the guy in the league that had the strongest leg.

You know, he could actually really bust it. Just I, but I understand the point. Also on Mike McCarthy, look, I'm not going to, I'm not going to minimize what we can do as hardcore fans in analyzing some of the things coaches do and say that it's all irrelevant because we've never played the game, we've never been in the arena. But with that said, it is true. We're not in the game. We're not in the arena.

And there's craziness going on and there's all this. But the thing about McCarthy and there have been a few others over the years is they're not even able to explain the mistakes that happen because I don't think they understand them. McCarthy, to me, is the perfect example of the guy. When he's asked about it, it's like, no, you can really tell he has no idea why what happened should have happened the other way or whatever. But I digress. It isn't happening in a TV screen for them. Of course not. It's not on a 100-yard field in real time with 22 enormous human beings running around all of whom are trying to figure it out.

So I just, I think, I think that's where Coach Thompson is probably spot on for almost every single one of us, whether we're talking or listening. I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but I'm just going to tell it to you real quickly. This was, it just reminded me of it. So I was coaching a game, I don't know, 10 years ago. And my, it was one of those situations where we were up to and the other team had no timeouts left and we had one free throw with like a. second to go. And so I wanted my guy to miss the free throw, but I didn't know, I called, I go to the table and I said, I have one timeout left, right? And they said, yeah, you have one time out left. So I called the time out and I brought the team over and I said to this kid, Owen,

who is, by the way, one of the best, I think he's the best rugby player, one of the best rugby players in the country for Wisconsin. And he was a good athlete as like an eighth grader and ninth grader. And I said, oh, and I need you to miss this free throw. It's got to hit the rim. And I explained everybody why. You know, I didn't want them to be able to throw the ball in bounds, et cetera. And so as they were going back out on the floor, the scores table says, you don't have any timeouts left. That's a technical foul. And I said, excuse me? And they said, you don't have any left. I said, yeah, but you just said I had them left. Anyway, to make a long story short, they hit two free throws to tie it on the technical foul shot.

Now I need my kid to make it. He misses it. We go to overtime. We did win the game, but I'm telling the story on the air. And this was Coach Thompson's response. I walked out into the bullpen at the end of this show, and he goes, motherfucker, he goes, how many timeouts do you have in a game? And I said, I think it's four.

He said, in an eighth grade game, you called four timeouts. He goes, are you crazy boy? He goes, what's wrong with you? And I just was laughing so hard. He goes, in eighth grade game, you used all four of your timeouts. Oh, it was hysterical. But anyway, where were we? If you didn't count the four, maybe you shouldn't be making fun of my car.

Exactly. How about that? Yeah, especially given that I actually called five. apparently. He's five timeouts in a game with eight great kids. Right. But anyway, and then he's like, and he said something like, where's your assistant coach keeping track your timeouts?

And I said he didn't post. It's eighth grade basketball game. All right. Give me the performance of the weekend that you were most impressed with because we could easily say the two quarterbacks from last night and wouldn't be wrong. But was there another one? No, it's the big fellow for the titan Simmons. Oh, my God.

Is Jeffrey Simmons a beast? Yeah, and you knew it this year on a number of occasions. The game at L.A., where he was just an absolute wrecking ball where they beat the Rams. But in this game, it just, he seemed to be, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of good defenders and scheme wreckers and all that in the league. But he just seemed singular. He seemed like he was some sort of other being unblockable. I mean, they fact a man nine times and lost because Tanna Hill had such a rough day in particular.

But I felt like outside of Allen and Mahalms, who's side by side, I don't know how you differentiate between the two, he's the guy that I think was the singular performance, wasn't he? I mentioned Simmons. I thought Simmons, I've been a Simmons fan since Mississippi State. That team had so many good defensive players. It was such a great defense. Montes-Wet was on that defense. What's his face? The safety for the Raiders, who makes a lot of big plays and misses a lot of plays. I'm blanking on his name all of a sudden, but whatever. I've loved Simmons since he got into the league, and I thought he was going to be great, and he was phenomenal,

and he was dominant. But I actually think, Because he was sacked nine times, and yet it made every single big play, I thought Joe Burrow was fucking great. And here's the other part of this too, because you and I get into this whole, you know, analytics conversation and whatever, teacher. And I like lots of information, but I'm not going to be beholden to any of it. His QBR for the game, the ESPN QBR, was 28.2. It's always a number I look at because I actually like that stat.

But the fact that Joe Burrow had only a 28.2 QBR from that game makes me never want to look at that again. Because I thought he was brilliant in that game and I thought he made every smart decision. I think there was one sack he took with about two and a half to go against in an empty set, unblocked. You know, the quarterback, we all, we all knows football fans. a quarterback is responsible for the unblocked, unblocked rusher and an empty set, and he took the sack out of field goal range. I thought that was the only play of the day that he made that wasn't really good. So Burrow, for me, outside of the Allen and the Mahomes performances last night,

I just thought Burrough was great. Well, he was, and it speaks to sort of, I talk about the same thing with him all the time. I mean, he's maybe as good an example as there is. I always speak about competitive arrogance, which I really, I find it appealing when it's, when it's because you've done it, right? And sometimes you see a competitive arrogance from a player and you think, well, I don't really get where that's coming from. You haven't necessarily done anything to kind of walk around that way. Burrow has, what's funny is Ryan Clark said when he got to LSU from Ohio State. he was that guy before 19.

And everybody down there was like, what is this dude doing? You know, who do you think you are? He kind of always knew what he thought he was. And then he's shown it. Like the throw he made to chase, it got him close enough to win the game was just the poise in the face of it was considering how often he already been sacked.

I agree. And that's why, you know, I think maybe the way we talk about it can make it seem like we're anti-information. which I don't think, I know neither one of us are. I just, I have a hard time when, like, whether it's like the PFF number or a QBR will suggest that somebody was terrible, when if you watched it, you realize that now actually, you know, they won the game in part because this guy who's ranking QBR was as low as it was, was as good as he was when he had to be, right? You can win games a lot of different ways.

and, you know, Cincinnati demonstrated that. I don't know. It feels like a hell of a hill to climb for them to go into Kansas City and deal with this. That team's played four straight at home, right? They played four straight home AFC championship games. The other teams has never been there. So the value of being familiar with what everything's going to feel like all week long,

and then what it's going to feel like once the game starts. I mean, it seems like that has to be a massive advantage for Kansas City over Cincinnati, who, whether you admit it or not, you've already taken huge steps, you know. You've won two playoff games. You haven't won one in 31 years. You've already won two. So, you know, I'm sure Joe Burroughs not going to say house money, but I mean, if we're being honest for Cincinnati, no matter what happens, on Sunday they've already taken the

steps forward. Everyone wanted them to take. Yeah, I give them a chance. But we'll get to that in a moment. I forget if you and I talked about this or not, but we certainly didn't do it on the podcast, so we'll do it here. Corbin and Ryan and I were in a group text a week ago,

whenever Burrow and Allen were playing. So the wild card weekend. And I just said, Burrow, Herbert, or Allen, you get your choice. And I actually then said yesterday, as Alan was lighting it up, should we put Mahomes into that conversation to you? only get one of the four, but they're both like, no, no, no, it's Mahomes. But I'll ask you, Burrow, Herbert, or Allen, you get one of them right now for your franchise. Well, whoever picks third still wins. Of course, yes. But if you're at, I think it's Alan. I think it's Alan,

and I think it's Alan because he has the one extra dimension, which is it's fourth and two, and he can just roll right, and even if everything breaks down, he still can get you a first down. I think he has more ways to impact the game. And once he gets running downhill, and it doesn't take a lot for him to be running downhill, been good luck. And so, again, whoever picks third,

and I presume the third person would probably end up getting Burrow, because I think Herbert, look at what he did in that, in that Raider game, which was their last game, which feels like it was 300 years ago. But I'd say, Alan, because of what I just said. Who would you take? Well, a week ago, Corvin and I both took Burrow, and I think Ryan took Allen. And after yesterday, I think I'd rethink it, but I think I'd still take Burrow. I think Burrow is the one, you know, what I kept going back to is I've watched Alan.

Like, I love Alan. Don't get me wrong. But he's played some horrendous game. games. Like, there have been some games that have been horrendous. The Redsville game was really bad. They were weird down the stretch. They weren't really great against Atlanta, and they weren't really great against Buffalo. But let me tell you what, when they put 60 on the clock against New England, they didn't ever kick the ball, and he was as good yesterday as you can be. Yeah, I know. You can't go wrong. You can't go wrong. I'm not worried about the Atlanta and the Jet game. I'm worried about when it mattered the most. And this could be me being the dreaded prisoner of the moment.

I just, for the reasons I explained, I like Allen. Aaron Rogers will play for fill in the blank next year. What am I? A wizard? I mean, not the Green Bay Packers. Really? Why? I don't know.

I'm just trying to be controversial. Do you believe that? No, not necessarily. No, I think what happens. and Gary Williams talked about this through the years. He said, you don't want to ever make decisions in the aftermath of an emotional game that ends your year, whether it's something great or something negative, just because your emotions are way too involved. And so after you lose like that, and everybody's looking around going, Mike, how did this happen?

You know, I saw a lot of people on Saturday saying after this year, they really mended fences, and everybody was on the same page, and nobody thought that this was the last year. Now I don't know. Well, that's silly. Let's not let that cloud our judgment here. They do have a lot of decisions to make, and they got some tricky things to sort out from a cap perspective.

That would be the question. And, you know, do they sit, they've transitioned before. You know, my God, they went from Farve to Rogers. And amazingly enough, they don't have. and they don't have as many titles as you would have thought you have for having Hall of Famers back to back like that. But they've transitioned before, and maybe Green Bay will look at it and think we could try to make the next chapter here

and go out and get something crazy. I don't know who'd be willing to step up. I mean, I remember Denver. I mean, Denver's been trying to figure out the quarterback position forever. that might make it be an appealing destination for Rogers. But I haven't the slightest idea. I'd be just guessing. Pittsburgh's got the cap space.

Denver. Washington's got the cap space. I mean, you know, I don't think he's coming here. By the way, I did want to mention as it relates to Aaron Rogers. I do think much of the hasn't been able to get it done and all these losses at Lambo. It's a little bit unfair. The game that they lost Saturday night was really, the first year, I went back and looked all this up, you know, earlier this morning. The first year after the Super Bowl, they lost to the Giants at home, all right, as eight-point favorites.

But every other loss they've had in the playoffs until yesterday, they were an underdog in those games. Well, no, they weren't an underdog in the NFC championship game last year. I'm sorry. They were a very, you know, short favorite, two and a half, three-point favorite last. year, but still, you know, it's Brady, it's the Bucks. None of his losses were as bad as the loss on Saturday night based on point spread or even kind of perception because it was Garapolo. You know, they lost to a team that had won a Super Bowl and the Giants, you know, that year, and they lost to Tampa last year. Speaking of great quarterbacks, let's go to Brady.

Does he play next year just gut feel, yes or no? I think so. I mean, and I guess I'm using what he did on social media. You know, keep going kind of a deal. I mean, after the game, he said, you never know. And Tampa's got some tricky stuff to sort out, too, because a lot of guys came back last year. Again, that's where maybe making a decision,

based on the emotions of, hey, we won, let's do it again. Everyone's like, yeah, all right. And then you don't, and you realize how difficult it is to try to win anything. Some people maybe after the way this year went will say, you know what, I'm going to go get mine, and say you lose some pieces or whatever. My sense is he'll continue to play just because I think that's how he's wired. I want to stop this for one second just about Rogers. You're saying a lot of these losses weren't on him.

Like this one, of all of them is lays at his feet. The defense held the team. The defense held the team to zero touchdowns. Right. The defense didn't give up a touchdown. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying. This is the one, if you want it.

That's right. You're the MVP. You're great all year. You get the ball back late. You got Lazard wide open across the field. You know, he hits Lazard. They probably won the game, even as, even as ordinary as Rogers was. I mean, they scored their touchdown

the first drive of the game, they never scored another touchdown. So, I mean, I thought the Lewis fumble. I thought the Lewis fumble. Yeah, I thought the Lewis fumble on that second drive actually ends up being a big play. No,

but what I'm saying is that people that say, you know, his playoff record now is 12 and 10, and he's only got the one Super Bowl. And it's not like he, like Peyton Manning had many worse defeats in the postseason as a big time favorite at home than Aaron Rogers.

The game the other night, even though, you know, the special team's fucked up, whatever, you had the turnover early. But you can't score 10 points on offense and not have it fall at your feet. I'm just saying that's kind of the first one out of all of these. But all these things fall under the umbrella. It's really difficult to win. And that's why I think makes somebody like Brady so interesting that I think so often he's been great. So often he's made these heroic plays. but I think if you ask Brady

he doesn't give a crap that that game against the Rams in the Super Bowl was frankly as boring a game as you'll ever see because he got a ring and a parade out of it just the same. Who cares? Made one throw to grok when I had to and we won the game. He doesn't give

a crap like how it had to happen. But Aaron Rogers has been brilliant at times and losses. You know, the Hail Mary in Arizona, you know, the onside kick that Seattle needed to recover to, you know, to end up, you know, the whole thing, whatever. Last one.

Actually, two more quick ones. What did this weekend say to those people that still believe that you don't need the elite quarterback? You don't need the franchise quarterback. Look at Jimmy Garoppolo, who's in the final four. Tanna Hill was a one seed. You know, what do you say to those people? Well, I don't know.

I don't know who those people are. I have a lot of them to call in. Really? I do. I swear to you. I don't know what world they live in. You can't win in this league unless your quarterback's excellent. You can't.

Or you can up until a point that you run into a team that has a good win, and then you go home. Well, Garoppolo didn't. Understood, but I mean, as we just kind of laid out, there was a lot that looked. San Francisco's defense was brilliant. The weather conspired. The special teams melted. I mean, they blocked a kick a punt and an extra, excuse me, a punt and a field goal, which I felt like was actually massive to keep that game a one-score game because just mentally you still stay engaged.

But he also started in a Super Bowl two years ago and almost won it. Right. and I've resisted the push. Jimmy Garoppel is the same guy that with a minute and a half and 88 yards and no time out against the land. Took them the length of the field in the blink of an eye. And people don't talk about that because they drafted Tray Lans. And a lot of my cohorts in media were really excited because this guy who played one football game in two years at the Division 2, essentially, level was going to come in and unseat Garoppel. And Shanahan told you after the Texans win, where Lance started and played well in the second.

half. Well, if Garabolo was his broken finger can go next week, he's our guy. And he did. And then he was terrible in the first half. And then the second half was pretty good. I'm not telling you he's Joe Montana. He's not. But he's also not a bump the way that people, I think, often portray him. And even as I try to not make excuses for him, but at least sort of point out some of the things he's done, he did spend much of Sunday throwing out that look like it would go the other way Oh, my God. It was unbelievable. It really was. But back to the question. Like, you know, your answer was, well, no, you can't do it unless you have one of them.

And even though I would agree with you, and it wasn't just the Rams game, 88 yards with no timeouts, to keep them alive for the postseason, he had an unbelievable drive to tie the game against the Titans on that Thursday night right before Christmas. He had an unbelievable drive in overtime to beat the Bengals after they fell behind. He's done this before. He's actually really delivered a lot in some clutch situations, and he made two great throws the other night with the game on the line at 10-10. But we would both agree that he's not a franchise quarterback, you know, in the way we would think of one.

I'm not saying he is, but you can be just sort of a shrug your shoulders and he's a decent starter and acknowledge some of the things he's done without acting like he's a bum. And I think that's what people do. People just shake their head and say he's a bum. and again, if you want to make a mix tape of the bad throws, you could certainly put that one on there against Dallas, where he airmails it. You're just, you're waiting for that throw.

Sure, I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not his, you know, the president of his fan club here. I just try to be. No, but the point is that the original question is, what do you say to those that will say, if you build a really good team, really good defense, really good offensive line, really good running game, then you can win Super Bowls,

and you can compete for Super Bowls with Jimmy Garoppolo or, you know, or Nick Foles or Joe Flacco or whatever. I guess, let me, you've answered it the way you wanted to answer it. Let me just say this. The bottom line is you can hit the inside straight. You can have a really good season like we've talked about. It doesn't make you a great franchise. It doesn't make you a great player. But you're not going to build, you know, a five to seven to ten year where you are one of the teams that has.

a chance to win the Super Bowl year and year out without one. I would say that A, B, man, I think that Jimmy Garoppolo, and I like him too, I totally agree with you, he's not a bum. I just think that somewhere else, without being propped up by Kyle Shanahan and that run game and that scheme, I don't know that, you know, he'd still be playing, you know, other than a backup anywhere else. I think sometimes you get the benefit of being in the perfect. spot. Sure.

And he is. And often that position is you succeed or fail based on your situation, which is why I think the rookies, I kept saying last year during the draft, we're talking about a lot of guys are going to terrible situations, and how many of them are going to be any good.

And we saw the answer this year. So I think we're both saying some version of the same thing here. You know, you can, sure, you can win games, but eventually you're going to into the team that has a Mahomes or an Allen or a Brady or, you know, maybe a borough becomes that kind of guy. You're starting to see that already in year two from him.

Maybe he's the guy that can carry teams, who knows? You know, maybe Stafford is that, you know, he wasn't for all those years because he played for the Detroit Lions. You know, you're only, you can only overcome so much of your circumstance. And sure, Garoppola is propped up by that. So I'm not telling you, again, I'm not saying he's Montana. What did your picks do this weekend? I won the first two, and then I took Tampa, and I don't know why I did.

I think I just assumed Brady would figure something out. Then I had Buffalo, and I don't feel like I was wrong. I didn't win the pick, but I just, you get to the end of that, I mean, you shrug. You just say, well, all right, that bet didn't win, went two and two. Oh, and three. So I gave out the two unders yesterday, which both, by the way, were pretty much locked and done. 2713, even a touchdown, 2720. You know, as long as the Rams punt it, I mean, they're probably not going to score a touchdown with a minute left,

you know, a minute 20 left and no timeouts, but Cam Acres fumbles. And then fourth and 13, if they don't throw the touchdown pass, that game stays under. And I gave out Tampa, too. The three leans I gave out, I gave out the unders and the two Saturday games. in Kansas City. And of course, I didn't give them out officially. They all won. So, oh, and three, it's been the nature of my year. Just bad luck. But just give yourself credit for the liens because you're the only person, because the only person who cares what your record is is you. So just say you want. Well, I ended up personally

breaking even for the weekend, although I did have Evansville yesterday. Did you have them? There you go. It's Illinois State. Sure. Right side. Hold on. Let's just real quickly talk about this. for those that will have, because I just think it's, I think it's the most hysterical thing I've seen. So Evansville yesterday was playing Illinois State. That's the Missouri Valley for you, people that don't understand. They played Illinois State on Friday night, and they lost by 38 points to Illinois State on Friday night. As a double-digit underdog, by the way, yesterday they were only a four-point underdog against Illinois State. And I went to say, well, somebody obviously is injured.

They have a bunch of COVID cases, right? Like they're not fielding a real team. No one was injured for that game. And I was just like, this is, well, this is what you and I look for. And tell everybody who won the game on the floor. Illinois, Evansville won the game outright, 56 to 53, and it was never really in doubt in that game. I don't know how the, I do.

This is where you and I have never had long conversations about this one, we just go with it. I don't know how they know. But man, and it's not a heavily bet game, Illinois State Redbirds in the Evansville Purple Aces yesterday on a Sunday NFL playoff day. But my God, they suckered some people into Illinois State, no doubt. Yeah, I mean, I assume so. And this is where you and I don't do any. There are people out there that, you know, they look at the numbers and they handicap. And I've said this forever. For me, it's just like, playing blackjack. 14 against the five, don't hit.

8-3 against whatever, double-down. You're just playing what the card tells you that. You're looking at that number just is like a siren going off. Right over here, Mr. Shee and Mr. Van Pelt, right this way. We have the Evans Valesis for you. What do you think? That's the selection we would like to back. Thank you.

That doesn't work all the time? No, obviously not. Did you see what I'm like? Did you see what Al Michaels told Bob Costas the other night on this Costas show? I think it's on HBO about gambling. So he was, you know, asked about gambling and the proliferation of legalized sports betting. And, you know, he basically made the same, you know, speech, you know, that we've both made and not necessarily that we want to come off as lecturing.

But for the people that are getting into this for the first time, you know, there is a beware sign. Like, this is all fun, but it's not so fun when you start to lose. And then you're like, wait a minute, I have all the data. I've got all the analytics. I should be able, like Ted Leonis, like I've said for three years, he's either incredibly disingenuous or he's just so naive. But Michael said, quote, as much information as we have and collect and have access to and watch film and meet with the coaches and the quarterbacks. I have no idea who's going to win the game.

And if I had to make my living betting, you'd find me living under a freeway overpass. I know that because you can't beat it. You cannot beat it. So I think this legalized gambling now around the country, it's kind of fun, but I hope that people, and then he basically goes on to say, I hope they understand that they're not going to win if they keep betting. But then he made the following comment. He said, I've never placed a bet before.

He goes, I've never bet. I was always kind of the rascal he called himself about talking about gambling, because it was really Al Michaels, Brent Musburger, and you. And I mentioned that in radio this morning. It's like Brent, you know, Al Michaels and then Scott obviously with his bad beats and talking about gambling going back basically 20 years on any show that he's ever been on long before people really wanted or networks really wanted to hear a lot about gambling. But I don't believe him.

I don't believe anybody that talked about points, spreads, and gambling as much as he did or Brent did. They definitely gambled. Come on. I just find it difficult to think that you would have never – I mean, although until now it wasn't as easy to do. You needed to have a guy. I mean, it's hard to think that someone wouldn't have a guy. But maybe he, but you know what? Like a guy like Mike Dorico, who's brilliant at what he does, always knows everything.

He knows the spread because it's a data point. It's something to keep in mind, and he knows it's something that the audience is aware of. I would say, if Mike said I've never bet, I'd believe him. I agree. I believe that he didn't. And because Al always did the wink and the nod, I think, it was never the same as Musburger. I mean, Musburger, and Musburger would say he didn't have action on games.

He called, and you're like, Brett, Brett, Brett, we're all friends here, man. Like, we're in a safe space, man. No one's judging you. Come on. Come on, big fella. You know what the clue is, though, with Michaels on why he has bet? because he understands you can't win. Most people who haven't bet before, but understand it a little bit,

they don't understand the pitfalls of it. He understood it. He spelled it out. He said, he can't make a living betting. I hope the people that are doing this, you know, basically do it with some restraint

and don't bet the mortgage on it. So that's a guy that's taking some lumps. Well, you know, listen, if Al says he hasn't, I understand your position. I'm not here to cast aspersions about out Michael's gambling pass.

First blush. If he did, if he did, he didn't. First blush. KC. minus seven and the Rams minus three and a half. Kansas City, San Francisco. That's my first. My first thought is, if you're asking about the number, I just, I'll probably end up having the Cincinnati winners,

just because I assume that, going to be hard to back them. And then it'll be 3110, and I'll just be going, why don't you just take the chief? But it's hard for us to ever just have favorites at first blush, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it is. I hate betting favorites. And I bet Kansas City yesterday. I'm surprised that you had Buffalo.

I kind of felt like everybody was kind of thinking after their win last. night that Buffalo was going to finally get her. I loved Alan. I thought Alan was going to be exactly what he was. I just, I didn't bank him in 13 seconds not being enough to stop. But I think Burrough can, with Jamar Chase, who is just fucking amazing. I'm not so sure right now that Jamar Chase isn't the best wide receiver in the NFL right now. And I think Devonte Adams is phenomenal. And I think Hopkins is. And I think Tarique Hill with the ball in his hands is the most dangerous player, but Chase is incredible. And I, they're not, I don't see them going in there and, you know,

sort of not being up to the occasion offensively. I just don't, I don't know as much as we've both lauded borough. And I agree, I think from a weapon standpoint, what Cincinnati's got is enough. can you hang if what yes of what the chiefs require of you like they did yesterday

like can you do what Allen did because it feels like that's what you might need to do and I'm sure Bengals fans with you hear this and just say well we beat him yeah you did you did that was at your place and it wasn't this level of game but I don't know

three weeks ago I got all week to figure it out Three weeks ago, 705 passing yards and six touchdowns between the two of them. And then yesterday, Mahomes and Allen's 707 and seven touchdowns. It's amazing. Right. And so there's your answer of, you know, can the Bengals match them? I mean, they beat them at their place.

Again, it's just the game. The game was an AFC championship game. That's what Ryan said last night. Ryan said he was more nervous and more emotional for AFC championship game against Baltimore than he was in a Super Bowl, which I found really... Wait, who said this? Ryan Clark.

Said what? More nervous in an AFC championship game than he was in the Super Bowl. Because... He just said that just the... I think because it was of, like, your plan against Baltimore. Yeah.

And remember that? I mean, we talked about this often. That was most physical football game I've ever seen in my life. And, I mean, it was a different. era just in terms of how it was all sort of adjudicated. But I just found it interesting that you just talked about how much understanding what was on the line, that you had to win this to get to that game. Well, all of the, you know, all of the guys that, you know, I spend time with in broadcasting,

you know, Thaisman, Jacoby, Rigo, Doc, you know, all those guys, every single one of them to a man have said a million times that the championship game against the Cowboys made the Super Bowl anti-clin You know, the Super Bowl win was, you know, there was no pressure at all. Yeah, but that's framed so differently than, like, Cincinnati and Kansas City. That Kansas City doesn't represent the Cincinnati. No, no, no, I'm comparing it to Ryan Clark talking about the game against Baltimore. No, I hear you. I think that from, you know, and you have to be of a certain age to understand when Dallas week was a thing

and what that era was all about. but that remains, that remains from a football standpoint, like that, even more than beating the dolphins. And, you know, when Rigo broke that force in line, I mean, certainly you go nuts, but that Dallas Sunday forever will be its own thing, I think, for a lot of Washington fans. Wednesday.

Which is interesting, because I think it speaks to the same thing, the same thing Ryan's talking about. Yeah, agreed. I mean, that's the biggest one for me. as a fan that went over the Cowboys in the NFC title game. Wham Bam, Mr. Redskins? Wasn't that the Super, wasn't that the Sports Illustrated cover? Yeah, Wham Bam. With Darrell Grant, Spike in the Ball? Yeah.

I didn't that wild how you remember, like, we're 100 years old, you know, me? Like, we're old. Sports Illustrated covers for 300, Alex? Well, just, but, like, just what that felt like when you were a kid, you'd get home from school and you'd go to the mailbox, and you couldn't wait to see who was on the cover. After that, you knew it was going to be the Redskins. That's what they were called them.

So I'm just using their name. You knew it was going to be then beating the Cowboys. And, I mean, there was nothing like that. Nothing better than Kathy Ireland on the cover of the swimsuit issue. The, wait, you just reminded me. Oh, I was going to tell you that Wednesday is the... At some point I probably have to pick up my kids there. You're going to talk for four hours?

What are we going to do? I don't know, maybe. On Wednesday, it's the 30-year anniversary of the 91 Super Bowl win over Buffalo. It was January of 92. That should be your one big thing on Wednesday night. Your one big thing should be this is the greatest Super Bowl team in Super. You know, the DVOA metric on football outsiders has the 91 skins as the greatest Super Bowl winner of all time. I think there's a USA Today thing that has them as the greatest Super Bowl winner of all time too.

Most underappreciated great team ever, people don't ever acknowledge them. And it's, I don't know, we've had this conversation too. You win three Super Bowls in like a decade with three different quarterbacks. It's way harder to do than it is with one. I mean, you didn't have one sort of guy you just rode. You had three different people. And with Ripin, they just sort of, ah, yeah, whatever they are. No, whatever they are.

They beat the crap out of everybody. 30 years ago, Kara and I, my wife now, we were dating at the time. I took her to the Super Bowl. We were in Minneapolis. And I think I've told you this story before. I forget if I've told it on the podcast. I swear to God, I'll wrap it up in 30 seconds. But the hotel we were staying at, Mike and the Mad Dog were doing their show from the lobby.

I walked down in the lobby, and of course, I was big fans of theirs. This is long before I got back into broadcasting. And I'm listening to the show, and Madden comes on the show. I did tell this story when Madden passed away a few weeks ago. Anyway, the net of it was Madden, they asked Madden who he liked in the game, and I'll never forget it. He said, you know, I've spent time with both teams, and I've called a lot of the Washington. games. He said, I just have a feeling that Washington is the much better team and it's going to show itself on Sunday that they're going to win and they're going to win big, which by the way,

usually you don't hear the broadcasters of the game say that. And he said that on Mike and the Mad Dog's radio show. And I remember Washington was a seven point favorite, but people liked Buffalo. I mean, they were, you know, K-gun and the offense that did Kelly and Reed and Thurman Thomas and the whole, and Madden just said, I think Washington's the much better team, and I don't know that this is going to be a close game. And it wasn't. It got kind of fake close there. They got a touchdown on an on-site kick, didn't they? It was 37 to 10 at finished 37-24. Yeah, it was. It got fake close in the end. It was. But they cover. Whatever.

Yeah, they did, because they were the much better team. They were. Okay, thank you for doing this. Appreciate it. I think we've got some snow coming this weekend so that'll keep us interested all weekend long. What did the 12G say? It's good. It's excellent. I've been looking at it as we've been talking. Meantime, the stock market's getting absolutely crushed, so that's not good. All right, I will talk to you later. Thanks for having me. All right. We'll finish up the show with a few other things that happened from the weekend right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This final segment presented by MyBooky, go to mybooky.orgie.orgie. com. Use my promo code Kevin DC and they'll match your deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to

a thousand bucks. If you get there to sign up and there's something already written in the promo code, erase it and write Kevin DC and they'll double your first deposit all the way up to a thousand bucks. Deposit 500, you'll have a thousand to play with here this week with basketball games and of course the championship games this coming weekend. All right, let's finish up the show real quickly with just a couple of things that I wanted to mention. Number one, the Wizards got absolutely throttled by the Celtics yesterday. Jason Taiton went for 51. That's three losses in a row for the Wizards at home. They're a game below 500. Bradley Beale called it the worst loss of the year for them. They get another home game, I think, against the Clippers tomorrow night, and then it's on the road

for three, including a game against Memphis on the road in John Morant. Secondly, Alex Ovechkin had two goals in the third period on Saturday. That forced overtime against Ottawa. They won the game on a backstrom goal in overtime. But it was the 155th multi-gold game of Ovechkin's career. That puts him past Mario Lemieux on that list for third all-time. He's three short of Brett Hull for second all-time in multi-goal games. He is still 34 multi-goal games short of the all-time leader.

in that category, Wayne Gretzky. Also, those two goals push him to $7.59 for his career, fourth on the list still. He's closing in on Yager, who's third on the list. He's seven short of Yager. I also wanted to mention that I thought Maryland had a really good win Friday night. I know Illinois, who was ranked 17th, didn't have their big man, Kofi Coburn, who is, you know, debatably, arguably the best big man in America. He had a concussion.

Maryland took advantage of it. Dante Scott had the best game of his career. And really, other than the Michigan game last week, Maryland's had a chance to win every single Big Ten game they have played. They're two and six, and in six of their losses, they've had a lead in the second half in five of those six losses. They play at Rutgers tomorrow night. They led Rutgers by double digits at halftime last week and lost. If you get a win there, somehow you're three and six with Indiana coming to two. Saturday for what would be potentially maybe the first game this year that hasn't felt like this is an interim year. Students would be back for that one as well. Lastly, I do want to mention that Denny McCarthy in the golf over the weekend at Lakeinta finished sixth. He ended up with a tied for sixth, 19 under four shots, four shots behind Hudson Swoffer. Denny, of course, we've had him on the podcast. We've had them on the radio show. A local. I know Denny's uncle. I know Denny's father. I know Denny's cousins. I coached some of his much younger cousins in basketball. But rooting for local PGA. Now Torvette, really, Denny McCarthy, who, you know, won a cool

$256,000 with a T6 finished in the top six in the big event. The American American Express event at La Quinta out in Palm Springs. A lot of us, and maybe some of you who are listening to the podcast, kind of follow Denny every weekend when he is playing on the tour, and that was a good weekend for him. All right, we are done for the day. Tomorrow, Tommy will be on with me. We'll talk more NFL playoffs, and we'll get more into Aaron Rogers and the possibility that Washington could be in place.

Somebody's got them, you know, borderline top five on the list of potential destinations here in the offseason. Some of you, after that game Saturday night, wouldn't want them. Yeah, okay. That's it for the day. Go check out my, yes, very tongue-and-cheek Twitter poll that I put out at Kevin Sheand-D-C when I asked for the off-season priority. and the choices were another wide receiver, a middle linebacker, a starting guard with offensive line depth, or other.

Many of you took it very seriously after the quarterback display over the weekend. That was my effort to be sarcastic. Enjoy the rest of the day. Back tomorrow.