The Kevin Sheehan Show - Blood Ox

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

Kevin and Thom today with Thom lecturing Kevin per usual about the way he leads his life. The boys talked Tennessee, Yellowstone, Yosemite, Ireland, Marty Schottenheimer, Tom Brady, Bradley Beal and the Super Bowl. Some Ron Rivera and WFT talk too.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's with me today. He lectured me the other day before the show started on a few things, and he was just lecturing me right before the show started here today,

telling me that I need a blood-ox measurement indicator or whatever it's called, because I mentioned to him that I've been congested, last couple of days, and that my wife had a sore throat, and he's like, well, do you have a blood ox meter? Is that what they're called? Blood ox meters? I forget what they're exactly called. Do you have one?

The oxygen in your, yeah, I do. They're cheap. They're like 50 bucks. You order it online. It's the size of a half dollar or something like that. You stick your finger in it. You've done this at the doctors, right? Yeah.

No, I know what they are. I don't have one at home. Okay. Well, yeah. Well, we have one here. In fact, I just checked it the other day, and it was 99. Do you know how good that is? Is that good?

I don't know what that means. That's really good. Really? Yes. And yours is good? It's always 98. You know, it's always good. But now I check it at home.

You know, we had Howard Gutman, who listens to the podcast. I think Howard listens to the radio show, too. Howard was the former ambassador to Belgium. Howard's such a great guy. He was the ambassador to Belgium during the Obama years. And I had him as a guest. And I had him as a guest on, I can't remember if it was the radio show or the podcast or both. Howard, if you're listening, just text me and let me know.

But it was really a good interview. Howard, first of all, is a phenomenal storyteller. But anyway, one of the reasons I had him on, this was early on. in the pandemic is he was part of a group that was basically developing the technology or had the technology developed to make entrance into arenas, large venues much easier and faster during a pandemic and even post-pandemic with a technology that would immediately take temperature and blood-ox levels so that if you were, you know, you had a temperature or your blood ox level wasn't very good, they could turn you away, essentially, and give your tickets back and maybe, you know,

reimburse you for the tickets. Anyway, Howard, great storyteller turned into a lot of other stories, including, did I, did you ever listen to that, or did I ever tell you to listen to that interview? There was so much about... I wasn't on it, right? You were not. Which makes... Well, then, why would I listen to it?

Because you're such a big fan of my shows. He was a partner at... By the way, let me just drive the call off the cliff for a second. This is what I do when people want to show me pictures of their children or when they've been on vacation. I say to them straight out, I say, am I in any of the pictures? And they say, no. And I say, well, why would I want to look at them? Yeah, I know, because you're so warm and nice with people that you actually care for.

Tell me about Howard's a story to tell. Well, Howard, by the way, is a fan of yours as well. And Howard, if you're not, I just wanted to make Tom feel good there. Howard actually had just some incredible stories. By the way, he was the son of a Holocaust survivor. And the story of his father is an incredible story that he told. And I'm not going to retell it here. But maybe I'll get him on the show soon and we can do it again.

But he was a partner at Williams and Connolly. I'm pretty sure that's where he was a partner. Williams and Connolly for many years. And he had many stories about the Baltimore move to Indianapolis in particular, and many others as well. Anyway, the reason I brought him up and into the conversation is because he was working with this company that had the blood ox temperature taker to make stadiums and arenas safer and turn away people before obviously they got into the stadium and spread the disease. my point here is I don't have a blood ox meter or taker. I have a thermometer and I actually have the facial recognition temperature taker right here in this, you know, in this studio space that I'm in.

And I will walk by that many times and take it and I took it earlier today and yesterday because I was congested and my wife had a sore throat and I had a normal temperature. So I don't think I, you know, by the way, I'm surprised that your blood ox level is so good, but I'm happy for you that it is, but I bet you that my blood ox level is probably normal if my temperature is normal, or maybe not. But I do know that this is an indicator and can be a significant indicator combined with temperature of having COVID.

Yes, it's easy, it's cheap, and I would just classify my own personal opinion that your behavior through the pandemic has been a little reckless. It's been a little reckless. Really? Really? Yes. I don't think it has been. When you described to me being in a casino one night a few weeks ago, I'm thinking, this guy is nuts. You're nuts.

God, wouldn't it be great, Tommy? Oh, I had Murray on the podcast yesterday. By the way, thank you for those of you that really loved the conversation about gambling. And for those of you who didn't remember, There's like a fast forward button. You can just hit it, you know, just move it a couple of minutes ahead. But, you know, Murray's doing that show for Veezen, the Brent Musburger Network. And he and Aaron, Aaron's producing it.

He's got now the 10 to 1 a.m. Eastern Time. So for them, you know, 7 to 10 West Coast time show. And they're doing it from that brand new sports book at the Circa, which, you know, if you haven't seen the pictures of that sports. book. It's spectacular. Now, Tommy, the circus is downtown. It's not on the strip. But they have a big studio set up for Tim and all of the other guys that are doing shows there.

And, man, it would be great to be in Vegas. I cannot wait for this thing to be over. Not that Vegas is going to be my first trip. It's not. But it's going to be in the top five. Of the trips that I'm going to take when this thing is done and everybody's vaccinated and we're all back to normal, even if it's a new normal, as I put air quotes up, I'm going to Vegas.

You want to go with me? We love Vegas together. We've been a couple of times together. It doesn't hold the same allure for me anymore. Why? You know, my Vegas was always a fight week with my old boxing writer buddies. And the last time I was there was for Mayweather Pachia. And it really felt.

Was I with you on that one or not? No, no, no. This was a couple, not that long ago. Oh, yeah. Mayweather Pack, yeah. And it really didn't feel the same. And I thought, okay, you know, I mean, it just doesn't do it for me anymore. Do you remember the night, this was actually really cool for me, not because you were there,

but because of the other person that was there with us. Do you know what I'm going to say? No. We were, the fights, we went to a couple of the fights. together and when the fights were at the MGM and we ended up staying at the MGM, right? I know one time Doc and I stayed somewhere else and maybe or maybe I stayed at the win and I decided to leave the MGM and check into the win. But this, we were at the MGM and an old friend of yours and a legendary boxing writer,

historian, Bert Sugar. Oh, Bert. And do you remember? I always hung out with Bert at the fight. And you said, and I was just, I was very happy. He said, do you want to come down with me, hang out with Bert and I at the bar? And I said, absolutely. Do you know, before you and I ever did the show together, like I had, I would, I would

have Bert, because Bert was a D.C. guy. He was born in D.C. Yes. And I had him. University of Maryland guy. And I had him on the show a couple of times that I was doing with Rigo. So not that he knew me, you know, well at all from that or whatever, but I remember sitting. We sat at the bar.

We had a couple of pops, and you and Bert were catching up. And, of course, you know, I didn't want to really hear your stories anymore because I heard them all the time. And I just wanted to hear Bert's. When did he pass away? It might be about seven years ago now, six years ago. Yeah. And, you know, I talked to him about two or three weeks before he passed away, too, because he was recovering from a bone cancer.

and he was starting to on the upswing and then he had a heart attack and passed away. He was, he was, he was a rock star. Character. When I was out with Bert, I never paid for a drink if I was with him. What a character. It was great, but Vegas doesn't hold it for me anymore. I've got some trips in my mind, Vegas isn't one of them. And what are your trips that you have in mind?

Well, one of them we want to do is we want to do a Tennessee trip. I want to go back to Memphis. I was in Memphis for a week for the Tyson-Lewis fight. Boring. And I had such a great time that week. And it's such a great music town. I want to hit Memphis and I want to hit Nashville. Nashville's the best.

I love Nashville. You know, my sister lives there. She's been there, I don't know, six years, five years now, whatever it's been. I love Nashville. It's a phenomenal town. In my old, you know, businesses, I actually did spend a lot of time in Memphis. And I will tell you why, one of my clients was Piggly Wiggly. And they had, and Piggly Wiggly had, they were a lot of, they were franchise, they were corporate-owned stores, and then they had a lot of franchisees.

And we were actually working with one of their biggest franchisees in Memphis. So I got to Memphis a lot. and then actually went back to Memphis a few more times early in like when I was doing broadcasting because this dude was starting an ACC radio network and he had me come down to audition and he offered me the gig but it required moving to Memphis. We didn't have the same level of technology. This would have been like 2004, 2005 probably. I just never liked Memphis.

I love the whole downtown scene. You're right with the music and food and Beale Street and all. whole thing. And I remember we stayed at that Peabody hotel down there in Memphis, which was such a tourist trap. But Nashville, I think you will love. Nashville, it's just... That's one of our trips, is a Tennessee trip. We might even throw in Chattanooga

as well. And we want to go to... Never been to Yellowstone or Yosemite. We want to go to both. I've been to Yellowstone and Yosemite. ahead of Vegas for me. Okay, so my predictions are, number one, you will love Nashville. You'll love it. You'll love the fact that basically when you're walking down Broadway, that there's music coming out of every single restaurant bar,

and it's not just country music either. I know. Nashville has a lot of, you know, rock bands have come out of Nashville as well. I think you'll love Nashville. God, it's been a long time since I've been in Yellowstone. I've been in Yosemite probably in the last 20 years. What are you going to do in Yellowstone? What are you going to do in Yellowstone?

I mean, you're not an outdoors person. Yes, I am. Not really. We took a trip out west years ago, a three-week trip out rest, and we hiked in Rocky Mountain National Park. We hiked through Bryce Canyon, through Giant National. What kind of hiking do you do? I don't know.

Four, five, six mile hikes. Was this before, before new knees or after? Actually, this was before my knees went south. Okay. This was before my knees, actually right before the arthritis kicked in on my knees. It was that fall. Because that summer, we took this great vacation out west, and I climbed up Bryce Canyon. I remember having to stop every 10 steps to breathe.

Yeah. But no, I like the outdoors, too. I like the outdoors. So I'm looking forward to that, too. You know, I'm a well-rounded guy. There's more than Tommy Levera than just Kevin Sheehan's podcast. Well, there is more. It's just not as much as you think there is.

Do you know I have never been, I've driven sort of by it, But I've never been on like a trip to the Grand Canyon. And I don't even know if I want to. I've been there a couple of times. And I've never really done Niagara Falls either, even though I've been up in that area of the country a lot. Tops and Wegmans, thank you very much. And I've done Niagara Falls a couple of times too and really liked it there.

Had great trips to Niagara Falls. I think for me, when this thing is over, not that this thing would stop me from doing this right now, but Maui would be certainly going back to Maui would be on the very near the top of the list. Long trip, but I love it. Definitely Vegas. I'll tell you what, in recent years, one of my favorite places to go was Amsterdam. I love Amsterdam, not because of the reasons that a lot of people say weed and, you know, prostitution or all that.

It's just a great city. I know. I want to go to Ireland. I've never been to Ireland. I've never been to Ireland, and so I want to go to Ireland. That's one of our trips. We want to go to Ireland, too, because, I mean, are you going to check out your... Of course. County Cork. I mean, of course. I'm going to... My maiden name is... My mom's maiden name was Donlin, and she was 100% Irish, so I would check that out. And before we went, but we want to go to Ireland as well. We're also, and I think I told you this, not that you would remember,

but right before the pandemic, this past summer, we had a trip that we were going to take to Scotland. It was a golf trip with the boys. And Kara was going to come, but we were going to do Scotland for five days and play golf, or six days and play golf for five of them.

And we were really looking forward to that, and then we obviously, with the pandemic, had to bail. Also on my golf trip list is Band and Dunes. For those of you who are golfers, I know I got to do that. And that's a boys trip, you know, either with my boys or with a bunch of friends. I want to do that. All right.

Well, how did all this start? Who knows how it ever starts? The Blood Ox thing, I'll look into it. Okay? Okay. Thank you very much. There are a couple of things that we want to get to today, including, you know, some Super Bowl talk. and I know you want to talk about Brady a little bit.

I was going to start with just one quick Super Bowl trivia question because I've been doing Super Bowl trivia on radio this week, and this is one that I think you will get right. Who's been the play-by-play announcer on the most Super Bowls? It would have been my first answer. No, it would have been my first answer. It's not Jim Nance. What's your second answer?

Pat Summerall. Yeah, he's the answer. 11 Super Bowls. 11 Super Bowls for Pat Sumerl. I figured it had to be a CBS guy. Yeah, well, he did for CBS and Fox. You know, he did the CBS. First of all, Summerall was a part of the broadcast for the first couple of Super Bowls

when they had dual networks televising, I think, Super Bowl 1 and Super Bowl 2. And then obviously with CBS with Brookshire, he did Super Bowls in the 70s. With Madden, he did him on CBS, and then when the NFC package went from CBS to Fox, he did him on Fox with Madden as well. But 11 play-by-play Super Bowls. I believe I've got to look this up, but I think Michaels was second. I think Al Michaels was number two on that list. Get this is wrong.

It's not going to cost me any money. No. And I haven't had anybody, Tommy. Actually, I've done Super Bowl trivia two days. I haven't had anybody yet reach the third level. And I'm giving them... Everybody out there. Everybody out there, just to show you what a good partner I am,

and contrary to what Kevin says, some sort of prima donna, Kevin came up with this Super Bowl trivia contest when we used to do the sports six together on 980, and given 980 was such a generous operation, we had to put up the money. And it was Kevin an idea to put up the money to give 500,000, dollars to the winner. And I would say, okay, I'll put up half. But Kevin had to assure me that nobody would ever win the money because the question would be too hard. And that was working

fine for a couple of years. Well, like most of the years. Yes, until somebody won the money. Right. And I had to reach into my pocket and pay $250 to some listener who answered a question. It was, so for those that are unfamiliar, it would be a three-level trivia contest. There would be like a very easy question to start. And if the person on the other end was, you know, a skins fan, I would give them typically a Super Bowl trivia question that had something to do with one of the five games that Washington played. Like, you know, who was the Super Bowl MVP from Super Bowl 17, John Regans? Like, easy questions.

If, like, it's not so easy if you really don't know. anything about Super Bowl, but for people who really love football, there was always an easy level question. And then the medium level question was pretty damn hard, usually. And only occasionally did they get to that final question. And when they would get to the final question, I would look across the table where Tommy was sitting with me in studio. And he'd be clutching his heart like he was Fred Sanford, like, you know, Elizabeth, I'm coming to join you, honey. and he would just be holding his breath. And I knew that these, they were really hard questions.

Like, I'll tell you what, I've got one. Yes, they were. I've got one for the final round for this year. I'm going to give it to you right now. Like, here's a good example of like a really hard question. Name the three players who have the most Super Bowl losses. You know, like basically I would try to come up with questions. and by the way, name the players and the teams that they were on.

I would try to come up with questions on that third and final level that you couldn't just Google. Like you couldn't be sitting there in front of your computer and Google. Like as an example, five players have won back-to-back Super Bowls while playing for different teams. Name them and the teams. Like that's really hard. You're not going to be able to Google that. So I had those levels of questions. A lot of times we would do jersey number stuff because you could never look up the jersey number stuff.

Like how many number 11s started? You know, there were seven number 11s that started in Super Bowl games. Name them all. You know, or something like that. And I don't even know if that's a real question. And nobody ever got it. It's five, six years. Nobody ever won it.

And by the way, we really appreciated all the support from 980 to help us out with like a legitimate prize that the station paid for. Because truly, when we would do this, the phone lines would be waiting pat an hour before we would start the trivia contest. And yeah, I think it was the final year. And you just looked at me and you just, you've got to fucking be kidding me. And I think you were upset because it wasn't that hard of a question. I think you knew the answer. And you're like, if I know the answer, it's not hard. and we did, the guy showed up, I can't remember who it was, but he showed up at the station,

we took pictures, we handed him the cash. And I did tell you, this was my idea, so if you don't want to participate, that's fine, but you did, you stepped up, big. Right, you see, that, if I was the prima donna, I would have said you pay for this. I'm not, I've never called, I've never really, in all seriousness, referred to you as a prima don't. You did? I know. You did. Okay. So I want to take a break and I want to come back because Marty Schottenheimer, who is honestly one of my favorite coaches of all time. And I don't think I would have ever felt that way had he not coached here for the one year that he coached here. But he's in hospice and his family has asked for prayers. Marty's been sick for a while. He's had Alzheimer's for several years. And, you know, I hate to say this. But obviously this is. going to end well, and it's probably going to end fairly soon when you hear this information. But I want to have a conversation about Marty and his Hall of Fameworthiness, and we'll do that

right after this word from one of our sponsors. So yesterday I saw this news come across. I think it was Chris Mortensen from ESPN, Tommy, who reported it. The former NFL head coach Marty Schottenheimer was moved to a hospice facility near his home in Charlotte, North Carolina. Complications from Alzheimer's disease. His family put out a statement that they're surrounding him with love, and they are soaking up all the prayers and support from all of those he impacted through his incredible life. I'm bringing this up, not just because I'm a fan of Marty Schottenheimer. Remember, we had him on the show. You do remember that, right? No, I don't. You don't remember that? We had him on the show. Maybe you

weren't there that day. Maybe you weren't there that day, but we had him on the show. Anyway, He had a book out, right? Yeah, there was something he was. pushing at the time. And we had them on and it was okay. Yeah. Anyway, I bring it up because I was listening yesterday to Peter King on

Mad Dog, on Mad Dog's show. And Peter King was talking about the Hall of Fame, which they apparently have already voted on because of the pandemic. They're not doing the whole Saturday all day thing and then, you know, come out Saturday night, you know, white smoke, here it is. And he said, you know,

basically Peyton Manning is a lock. Charles Woodson more likely than not a lock. And then he said that he thinks that Tom Flores is going to make it into the Hall of Fame via the senior route. And Tom Flores, for those that don't know, was the two-time Super Bowl-winning coach for the L.A. Raiders, the Oakland Raiders in 1980 when they beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl. By the way, they were a wildcard team that year when they won that Super Bowl in 1980. And then they crushed Washington in Super Bowl 18 in Tampa, 38 to 9 behind Marcus Allen and Jim Plunkett and Cliff Branch and Michael Haynes and Lester Hayes when Washington was the defending champ. So Tom Flores is a two-time Super Bowl winning coach. But he has a career regular season record of 97 and 87.

The truth is he didn't coach that long. He was the head coach of the Oakland Raiders and the L.A. Raiders for nine seasons. and then he had three very unproductive years in Seattle as the head coach, where he went in Seattle. He was 14 and 34 in three years. But his overall winning percentage is 527. But he was 8 and 3 in the playoffs with two Super Bowl titles. And so when I heard Peter King say that, I was like, look, I don't necessarily have anything against Tom Flores being in the Hall of Fame as a two-time Super Bowl winner. But if Tom Flores goes into the Hall of Fame, two guys that I'm a big fan of should be in the Hall of Fame.

Mike Shanahan should be in the Hall of Fame if Tom Flores is in the Hall of Fame. If he goes into the Hall of Fame, Shanahan should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. Shanahan has a better overall record, has won two Super Bowls, all right? And by the way, really was an innovator in the run game with the Zone Run scheme. So, you know, there are a lot of people that have always called Mike a borderline Hall of Fame coach. That's fine. But if Tom Flores gets into the Hall of Fame, Shanahan deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. And that leads me to this, and then I'll let you respond.

Marty Schottenheimer had a Hall of Fame coaching career in the regular season. Like there is no exaggerating Marty's success as a regular season NFL coach. One of the best ever, Tommy. His winning percentage in Cleveland was 620, 2 and 4 in the postseason, went to the play. four times, won three AFC Central, they called it back then, division titles. And of course, lost. We'll get to the playoffs, actually. I'll hold off in the playoffs in a moment.

In Kansas City, 101 and 58, a 635 winning percentage, went to the playoffs seven times in Kansas City. And in Washington one season, as we know, 8 and 8 with Tony Banks and Kent Graham at quarterback, started 3 and 8, 5, finished 8 and 3. over their final 11 games and then was dismissed after one year. And then with the Chargers, 47 and 38, a 58 winning percentage went to the playoffs twice in five seasons. Marty had seven seasons, I'm sorry, nine seasons of 10 or more. My fault.

Three, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. 11 seasons of 10 wins or more, 11 seasons of 10 wins or more, and had three seasons of 13 wins or more, and five seasons of 12 wins or more. One of the great and one of the most successful regular season coaches in NFL history, Marty Schottenheimer was. It's hard to almost debate it. His regular season winning percentage, first of all, he's got 200 career wins, but the winning percentage of 613, the only coaches with a better regular season win percentage are Don Shula, George Hallis, Bill Belichick, Tom Landry, and Curly Lambo. Guys that are in the Hall of Fame that Chautenheimer has a better regular season

percentage winning percentage then are guys like Parcells, Noel, Levy, and Stram. The combined regular season records of Coriel and Flores, all right? if Flores gets into the Hall of Fame and Corrielle is there, is like, you know, 5-51. Marty had three incredible acts as a regular season coach. The reason he's not in the Hall of Fame, however, is because nobody had worse luck in the postseason than Marty. Nobody. The drive against Denver when Cleveland was on their way to the Super Bowl. The fumble, Ernest Biner, in Denver the next year, Denver goes to the Super Bowl, Cleveland doesn't.

two missed field goals late in playoff games of short distance that eliminated his teams in Kansas City and in San Diego. And then his very last playoff game against the Patriots in San Diego is a 14 and 2 team, number one seed in the AFC in 2006. There's an interception that will end the game and instead of going down, the DB, runs around, fumbles it back to the Patriots, and Brady goes down and leads the Patriots into the AFC championship game. He had horrible luck in the postseason.

Five and 13 total in the postseason, even though he seemed to be in the postseason almost every year when he was a head coach. If Tom Flores gets in the Hall of Fame, Mike Shanahan and Marty Schottenheimer should be in the Hall of Fame. Last thing before I want your take. To me, Marty's career is George Allen's career. phenomenal regular season coach, but not a good playoff coach, not a good playoff record.

The only difference between George Allen and Marty Schottenheimer is George Allen was really considered to be an innovator in the game with the nickel defense, with special teams, first coach to hire special teams coach. It was Marv Levy. But if Flores gets in, I think Shanahan and Schottenheimer, and by the way, I think Tom Coughlin should eventually be in as well as a two-time Super Bowl winner. You say what? Well, you took the words right out of my mouth with the George Allen reference. I mean, to me, that's the comparable to Marty in many ways,

a guy who did not have success in the postseason, but had tremendous regular season success. I think all those coaches you mentioned will get in. I think that Mike Shanahan will get in eventually. I think Marty will get in. and I think Tom Coughlin will get it. I think they'll all get in eventually. Well, they're not now.

No, but they will. I think they will. Look out long it took Tom Fores to get in. Do you think Tom Fawres? Almost 40 years. Do you think he's a Hall of Fame coach, seriously? I don't. If you went two Super Bowls, I think you're a Hall of Fame coach.

He won, listen, he won two super, this is always the one of the measurements. Who was your quarterback? He won two Super Bowls with Jim Plunk. I know. Okay? Not Kenny Staveler. Jim Pluckett as a veteran, and he was, you know, here's one thing Plunkett could do, Tommy. He could throw the deep ball.

Rippin-like. Yes. He could throw the deep ball, which Al Davis always wanted. You look at Plunkett's numbers. I know. And you say, how did this guy with two Super Bowl? So I think that that's another plus for Florida. Yeah, but very talented teams.

I do think he's a whole. I know that. But I don't pay a lot. as a coach for winning with talent. I, I, I, I, I thought Jackson. No, but you tried to act it out, you try to act like he did it with the little, you know, the little sisters of the poor. I mean, Jim Plunk.

No, I said we, we measure coaches technically a lot of times by their, by who their quarterbacks were and their success. That's true. We always talk about how Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different quarterback. Right. You know, so I think you have to consider that with Tom Flores that he, that he won with arguably one of the worst quarterbacks in Super Bowl history in Plunkett.

I don't care how he played in the games. I mean, look at his numbers, and they're in the low end of that pile. So, yeah, I think Flores is a Hallfamer, but it took him a long time. Shattahan, I think it will take a while. I mean, I think people, you know, it may take until Kyle's out of the game. before Mike gets in at some point. And I think Marty will get in, particularly, unfortunately, once he passes on, as there'll be another recognition of the work he's done.

There's even more remarkable thing, I think, is Marty Schottenheimer coached here for one year. He's revered by Washington football fans. He is put up on a pedestal, like a coach who has coached here, 10 years. Yeah, but we know... They will be Washington's football fans who will generally feel sorrow when Marty Schottenheimer passes away.

And he was here for a cup of coffee. It's funny because I don't think I would be the fan of Marty that I am and sort of have an appreciation for his career and the moments in which he didn't get it done in the postseason that really were, in many cases, is just a terrible stroke of bad luck, although I do think like George Allen, he was too

conservative, you know, in playoff games when he had superior talent and a superior team. But look, Tommy, the 2001 season, you know, for this franchise was the first, you know, it was the first hire that Dan made because he inherited Norv Turner, fired Norff Turner at the end of the 2000 season with three games left. Terry Rabinsky, as Dion called him, was the interim coach. And he hired Marty Schottenheimer. Remember, Marty Schottenheimer as a broadcaster

had basically been very critical of Dan. But Marty came in and Marty knew Marty more than anybody else. Long before even we knew it, he knew how dangerous Dan was. And he only took that job with totally, Total control of the football operation. Total control.

Sproyer didn't have it. Gibbs had it, but Gibbs didn't mind Vinnie being around and Dan participating. Marty came in long before any of us really had an inkling of how dangerous Snyder was as an owner. And Marty knew. Marty said, I'll take the job, but I get full control of the football operation. He booted Fred Drasner, one of the co-owners. He took away his parking spot in Ashburn and gave it to one of his coaches. The first thing he did is he booted Vinnie Serrato out of the building and said,

no, I got people, you know, by the way, guys that could really do this. I mean, he brought in John Schneider. Nobody knew who John was. John's been the longtime general manager in Seattle and been the architect with Pete Carroll behind so many of the great Seattle teams over the years. And Marty's season started with Jeff George a quarterback, and he gave George a shot. But 9-11 happened after the opener.

They lost the Chargers 30 to 3. George was terrible. 9-11 happens. You get the delay. You come back. He starts George in the first Monday night game with the NFL back after 9-11. they get absolutely housed at Lambeau, 37 to nothing, something like that. George is terrible.

He cuts George the next day and tells Dan, sorry, because George, of course, was Dan's guy. George was a loser. He goes on to lose his first five games, and the stories are, you know, you know some of them. They were done with Marty. Marty was already, you know, he was an authoritarian. Marty had already been super mean to people like Drasner. He was not a finesse guy. And Marty basically said, get the hell out of my way, and you'll love what the results will be.

But you have to stay the hell away. He was not Rivera calling him Mr. Snyder. Marty called him Dan. I'm pretty sure. I can't remember, actually. But Ron, you know, has this finesse way of making Dan feel like he's participating. Marty didn't want any of that. He didn't want any of the aggravation of having to placate Snyder or any of the other owners.

And at O'N-5, they were done with him. Done with him. Drasner hated him. Snyder was ready to move on from him. And, you know, the famous quote that Dan wasn't having any fun. And there goes Marty, starting to turn it around. By the way, the O' and five game in which they went to O'N-5, was a Monday night game against the Cowboys. The skins were O' and 4 and the Cowboys were O' and 5 going into that.

game, or maybe it was vice versa, whatever it was. And it was the first game that they were really competitive in. And they were up seven to six late, and Stephen Davis got the ball for a first down, which would have put them into position of taking a knee and kneeing out the clock, and he got the first down and he fumbled. And Dallas got it, and they drove it down the field. They kicked a game winning field goal and win it nine to seven. The funny thing about that game, 0 and 4 Dallas, 0 in 5, Washington, or whatever it was, maybe both teams were o'n four, one of the highest Monday night rated games of the year on television, because that's still when Dallas-Washington was a big deal. And then the next week against Carolina at home, down 14-0,

LaVar Arrington picked off a pass and ran it back like 75 yards for a touchdown. They rallied, they beat Carolina in overtime, 17, 14, and then you just saw a team continue to get better and better and tougher and tougher. And defensively, I remember they went to Denver and won 17 to 10 in a sleet storm. By the way, Banks was benched for Kent Graham. They beat the Eagles at the vet 13 to 3. I'll never forget the final score. The defense was great.

Cajonna Carter was in the backfield for him. And they won five straight games to get back to five and five. And I just remember watching them going, this is the first team we've had. This is the first coach we've had since Joe left. since Gibbs left that is going to build a winner. This is how it's done. There's a toughness to this team. There's a discipline.

There's a guy in charge. There's a guy that understands culture. They ended up going eight and eight. They lost a couple of key games at home against the Bears and the Eagles late in the season, or they would have been in the postseason. And Dan said to him after the season, nice job. but I need back in. I need to participate.

I need my guys to be participants in this thing as well. And Marty said, absolutely not. And Dan said, well, sorry, see ya. Biggest mistake of the Snyder era, to me there's not even a close number two. And I'm not counting the culture of misogyny and sexual harassment. I'm talking about the football operation. And that is why he is so revered by why.

of football fans. Because people who lived through it can remember that moment where the clouds parted. They were parting. You know, the clouds were parting, and the sun was starting to shine. And just like that, you know, you had the storm clouds again, and they've been there ever since. So I don't know if there's a franchise. I mean, it's ironic because there are two different reasons. But there are two coaches.

Schopenheimer more than Lombardi, who had always been with the Washington football team for one year. And in that time, had huge impact. Now, Lombardy had a huge impact on the organization and the team. Schottenheimer had a huge impact on the fan base and what they felt, you know, what was possible. But one year, Kevin. I mean, there's not many guys who have been in coaching job for one year

who didn't win. They were A and A. And it's spoken of as a savior. But, you know, I think you're right with a lot of people. At the time, you know, there were a lot of people. I remember, like one of her very good friends, Steve Zabin. I remember Zabe couldn't stand Marty. Couldn't stand the authoritarian style.

He wasn't the only one. The post was all over. All over him, hated him. And they knew what, because they were on the Steve. He's Spurrier trained. Right. And by the way, that was, you know, Snyder's other plan. We'll bring Spurrier in here and we'll handle all the personnel, let him coach it up and we'll be good to go.

I just remember, you know, I wasn't in broadcasting this year. I just remember thinking as I'm watching this going, this is the guy. It's been a while because Norve was the opposite of Marty. You know, Norv was, you know, a finesse guy. Norve was Mealy-mouth. Norv. You know, the bottom line is Norve was a really good offensive course. coordinator, one of the best of the last 30 years, but it was not a very good head coach.

And Marty was a really good head coach. And I'm telling you, Tommy, still to this day, I think that if Dan had had less ego and more intelligence, Marty would have, they would have won division titles. They would have been in the playoffs. There would have been a six, seven, eight year run. Because, you know, eventually Marty does, like George Allen, by the way. Another similarity. Eventually, you know, it gets to a point where it's like, okay, that was great, but man, he's too much. You know, and he grew apart in all of his franchises. Eventually, there was like, there was a shelf life to Marty. And that's fine because while he was on the shelf, he was winning. He was kicking ass. Not in the postseason. That's always going to be the mark against him. But that team with guys like, you know,

Flemister and Walter Raspi and Kajana Carter, who was the number one picking the draft, but it had like knee surgery after knee surgery. Stephen Davis, he recognized the greatness of him. Rod Gardner. I mean, I'm just trying to think of the guys that, you know, an offense. And by the way, I think LeVar Arrington would have been a great all-time pro had he played his whole career with Marty Schottenheimer. I think he would have been.

I think he would have been. I think you're right. Yeah. And I had, I covered the, I remember they sent me down to cover Washington's game with the Saints in New Orleans. At the end of that year? And they beat the Saints. Yeah, they beat the Saints pretty handily. I think it was 30 to 13 or something like that. Yeah. But I remember seeing a GM, NFL GM, who I was talking to you down there, who told me that Marty should have been coach of the year for doing what he did with Tony Banks and quarterback.

no doubt. It wasn't just Banks and Graham. It was everything else they had. They had nothing on offense. So it was going to take him, first of all, he was going to need to get, you know, a quarterback. And, you know, and it was a different age. It's not like you had to have the elite quarterback back then. You could be really good without having the best quarterback in the game. I mean, you know, it was better to have Montana and Marino. I understand that. But he, you know, the other one last thing on that year. Darrell Green and Bruce Smith could not stand them. They were the old veterans.

They had done things a certain way. They had played under certain coaches. And none of the coaches that they played under were like Marty. Joe Gibbs wasn't like Marty. Norv Turner wasn't like Marty. Marv Levy for Bruce Smith wasn't like Marty. Marty was George Allen. And, you know, like I said,

you know, maybe a shorter shelf life. but also you had to have a certain kind of a player. And Daryl Green at whatever age he was at that point, which would have been every bit of 36, 37, you know, let's see, Spurrier was the final year for him and he was 40. So he's probably 37 years old, right? At least. Maybe older than that.

Yes. 2001, if he was 41 or 40 when he retired, no, he was 42 when he retired. He might have been 40 during that season. What year was he drafted? 83? Yeah, he was drafted 83. So this was 2001. So he was in year 18.

He's near 40 years old. Yes. He's near 40. If he's not 40, he's 39 in the Marty season. But I think because the Spurrier year two was Darrell's final year, right? That was his final year. And so he was 42 when he retired. He might have been 40.

He might have been 40. I'm looking it up right now. I'm sitting here hesitating because I'm pulling it up on pro football reference because now I'm interested to see how close we were. Here it is. He was 41. He was 41 during the 2001 season, and he retired the next year, Spurrier's first year. At the end of 2002, he was 42 years old then.

Well, Marty understood. Marty understood what, you talk about changing the Colourner. culture. What a mess the team was discipline-wise under North Turner. Yeah. And he understood a basic philosophy of management is it's easier, it's better to be the hard-ass from the start. And then if you need to back off, to back off. You can't start off being the easy-going guy and then put on the brakes. That's a lot harder to do.

I'm sure when Marty was in Kansas City, he didn't treat Derek Thomas the way he treated Dowell Green and Bruce Smith. I'm sure by the time Marty had been with Derek Thomas for years. He had a different set of rules probably, you know? Definitely. I mean, so I don't think Marty was like that every year. But Marty needed to be like that that year. And there were veterans who had to pay the price.

You know, it's... February 4th, 2021, which means he was basically hired here 20 years ago. You know, it would have been January, and I think it was January. I think it was pretty much right when the season ended. But 20 years ago, it was, Marty was hired here. And it was absolutely, in my opinion, I don't think there's a close second when it comes to the football side of the house, the worst mistake Dan Snyder ever made. He missed out on an opportunity to actually have success.

By the way, you remember this. because I think now this is what, I think this was a part of the interview with Marty. He coached in that UFL. He coached Virginia's, the United Football League team, to the championship. He won the championship in that league. He defeated the Las Vegas locomotives in the 2011 UFO championship. And you know what? Actually, I think that is why we had them on. I think that there was an opportunity because they were promoting that. UFO to have Marty on. It wasn't a book. It was the UFL thing and we had them on. Okay. And I remember,

you know, he was, he was very hesitant, but he said enough when it came to, you know, it was pretty much something like, well, Dan had his ideas after that first year and he wanted to be more involved and that wasn't our deal. And I said, if you're going to be involved, you're going to be involved without me, and he decided that that's the way it would go. But he did get paid. He did get paid. Who was the longtime Chiefs team president? I've had him on the radio several times.

Carl Peterson. Carl Peterson, who loves Marty. And I remember having him on years ago, and I said that to him. I said, by far and away, the number one mistake, not even close. before we had even talked about Marty under Dan Snyder was firing Marty Schottenheimer. And he said, and he just said to me, he goes, not even close. He goes, what a shame. What a missed opportunity.

Because Marty won everywhere, and he would have won there, and he had the control there. Because he knew he needed the control, and he went in with the control. You know, Jay Gruden and I would urge everybody to listen to this, Ben Standig's podcast, he had Jay Gruden on yesterday. And Gruden said among, I haven't listened to the whole thing, but I listened to the end, the last 15 minutes of it. It's very good. I'm going to go back and listen to the rest of it today.

Gruden in sort of, you know, one of the final questions about, you know, what ifs or, you know, what would you change? And he just said, well, the bottom line is, you know, you need the control. You can't, you, to create a culture that, you know, to create a culture that, you know, you know, will be a winning culture, you have to have the head coach or football people be in charge of who's in and who's out. We had too many people that we didn't on the football side want in the, you know, one on the team. And there were lots of people that we wanted on the team that Bruce and Dan didn't want. And there was, you know, that was the disconnect. He also blamed it on injuries.

But, you know, Marty didn't allow for anybody else to make a decision. And, you know, and I think right now this situation with Ron Rivera is that I don't know if it's in his contract but for right now Ron Rivera has the ability to make all of the decisions and you know we'll only time we'll tell if Dan has learned his lesson

over all these years and we'll let him make everyone by the way I had Rivera on the radio show yeah that's right I had him on this morning he was great I actually recorded it yesterday but ran it this morning so for those of you Rivera was on you can go

listen to it on the team 980.com or the radio.com app and then just go to team 980. There were a couple of things. I'll tell you real quickly, like some of the highlights. On the whole quarterback situation, he said quarterbacks are number one priority. And he said, well, having an answer for quarterback is the number one priority. So I said, well, you know, many people think that Taylor Heineke and Kyle Allen and or Kyle Allen are the answer. What would you say to those people about that being, you know, being able to solve your number one priority? And he said, I'd tell them, well, we need to make sure. We need to make absolutely sure.

We need to exhaust and investigate all of the possibilities that are out there. So he said, essentially, we're going to keep going out there looking for an answer. He also said, and I didn't know if this was the first time, I don't think I had heard this, and maybe it was reported. But I asked him about Dwayne when he knew that Dwayne wasn't going to be a part of this team. And he said, you know, it was when he benched him. And then I, so I followed up by saying, well, was there any consideration given to trading him at the trade deadline when you could have gotten something for him instead of, you know, having to release him at the end of the year? and he basically said, we did, but we got no offers. So they did try to trade him, and there was nobody interested in offering anything.

There were some really interesting things about Marty Herney and Martin Mayhew. You can go listen to the interview, but I asked him about how the three of them are going to work together, and he said, well, it's coach-centric. I've got the final say. And I said, well, what do each one of them do well? Like, what are their strengths? And he actually, and I was surprised at this, he said what, Mark, party's best at is being a road GM. He loves being on the road scouting for the draft.

And that Martin Mayhew is really strong on the pro personnel side and understands how to find guys that fit the scheme well. And, you know, the obvious in recent years is that Josh Norman, as an example, was a really good corner, maybe, but not in the scheme. But it didn't matter to Dan and Bruce because it was Josh Norman. Now, I would say to someone like Jay Gruden or whomever was the defensive coordinator at that point, Joe Barry or whoever it was, well, you've got to fit your scheme then. If you've got an owner going out there and playing fantasy football, you're going to have to fit the scheme to your best players, which they never did with Norman.

And, you know, the Alex Smith trade was not necessarily a guy that was going to fit Jay's system well. Right. But anyway, you wanted to talk about Brady and the Wizards. I think you had some thoughts on the Wizards. We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. This is going to be the final show with you this week, so I will let you make a Super Bowl pick if you'd like to do that. But I know that you wanted to talk about Brady.

Well, I mean, earlier in the week, he comes out and says, he's 43 years old. He says he wants to play past 45. Right. I mean, that's pretty stunning. I mean, I don't think we fully appreciate what we're seeing from this guy in terms of his ability to compete at a high level like he has been. I know I'm surprised by what he's done in Tampa this year. I didn't think they'd get this far, particularly after the game, they played against Washington.

I didn't think they'd get this far in the playoffs. So if you can underestimate Tom Brady, I still think people do because I don't think they realize he's 43 years old and he's got his team in the Super Bowl. He took them to the Super Bowl. It may not have been pretty all the time, but he got them there. And I mean, he's just a marvel. That said, I don't see how you can pick him in this Super Bowl. I think you can pick him in the Super Bowl. I think you can pick that team in the Super Bowl.

I think you can pick Todd Bowles in the Super Bowl. I think I'm going to pick tomorrow my smell test more likely than not Tampa in the Super Bowl. Really? Yeah. And it's not just, it's definitely the anti-public thing, but I can see them winning this game. I can. I could see them winning the NFC championship game too. I could also see Kansas City winning by a lot.

But, no, I think they're going to play well. I think they're going to be coached well. I think they're going to play well. I think this is such a great matchup. I think this is the most excited I've been about a Super Bowl in a long time. Like, I'm really looking forward to watching this game, aren't you? Yeah, so am I. Yeah, and look, I mean, what's interesting is Pat Mahomes is something that we've never seen before.

So I don't know how you pick against them. I mean, you've got the ultimate thing. How do you pick against Brady? well, you pick against Brady when he's playing against Pat Mahom. I know the quarterbacks don't play against each other, but we still do this all the time. And it amounts to who's going to put up that many points that quickly? And if it's a point shootout, it's going to be the chiefs,

which I think it will be a point shootout. Yeah, I mean, Marie and I were talking about it. Everybody's expecting a big shootout. so I will probably lean under, if not give it out on the smell test. It's amazing what Brady's doing. There's no doubt about it. Yes, it is. It's amazing.

It really is. And when he said that the other day, I didn't even think twice about it. Of course, I mean, I could see him play at a high level next year and the year after. I mean, you know, there's always this saying with quarterbacks, like they fall off a cliff. Like, it's over quickly. And I guess, you know, I definitely saw some regression with Breeze this year. Oh, yes. But, you know, I'm trying to think of other super, you know, Brunel at the end of his career.

How old was Brunel when he finally retired? How old was he in Washington? He was like 37 in Washington. He could throw that crossfield five-yard pass better than anybody. He really lost some arm strength. I thought Philip, it's interesting, I thought Philip Rivers lost arm strength a year ago, I thought, watching him. but I thought he looked great this year. I mean, Testa Verdi played until a very old age, you know, and started games.

Warren Moon played until he was 44 in Kansas City. Okay, DeBerg. Yeah, but DeBerg was always a backup. Right. You know. I know. It's funny because DeBerg was, you know, over the weekend, they do that thing on the NFL network where they play all of the NFL films,

30-minute Super Bowl highlight films, and they start on like Saturday afternoon, and they play them right through Sunday during the day. It's always the week before the Super Bowl, and I just happened to have tuned in for the back-to-back Super Bowls by Denver, the Shanahan two Super Bowl's with Elway at the end of his career, and they had Steve DeBerg miced up. He was the backup quarterback to Chris Chandler for the Falcons in that second Super Bowl that Denver won. and he was 44 years old at the time. But I think pretty much for the last several years of DeBerg's career, he was pretty, I think he was probably a backup for most of his career anyway.

George Blanda, how old was Blanda? I know he was a kicker at 49. He was a kicker at like 50, wasn't he? Something like that. I just don't think we've ever seen anything like what Tom Brady's doing. No. Week after week. Take a team in his first year on the team,

talented team, a well-coached team, but still, I mean, a lot of things get in the way when you arrive at a new team, especially when you've got to be set in your ways from playing for Bill Belichick for 19 or 20 of your seasons in football. I mean, the adjustments for Brady must have been difficult. You know, you've really hit on something because I don't, so I think one of the most Overrated things to talk about over the last couple of weeks is Brady over Belichick. I think that's just way overrated. I think that they were partners in the greatest dynasty of the NFL, maybe ever, and equal partners. We know this because we know what Bill Belichick was in New York as the defensive coordinator for Bill Parcells and how brilliant he was as being the architect of a defense and two Super Bowl wins there.

Bill Belichick was as, I'm just going to say, I don't know if one guy was maybe more important than the other or less important, but it was damn close. And just because Belichick's team isn't in the postseason this year when he had like six players opt out and had no cap space and lost a bunch of players, I would not count him out with cap space in the next couple of years. I think that's, I think that story is very overrated. Like I just don't think that there's anything conclusive. because Brady's in this Super Bowl and Belichick didn't even make the playoffs in terms of the Brady-Belichick conversation. However, what I think has been undersold is what you're talking about. Tom Brady left New England, went to Tampa, and in his first year took the Buccaneers to the Super Bowl, his 10th, and he's trying to win his 7th. Like when it's all over at 45 years old or 46 years old, and then 10 years after,

that, and hopefully we're still around doing a podcast together. And we talk about Tom Brady's career. This is going to be a significant part of the story. Yes. It will. Absolutely will. Imagine, look, we think Patma Holmes is so great. I mean, if Patma Holmes would win this Super Bowl, that would give him two, okay,

that would give him one-third the amount that Brady has won. Yeah, but he seems. You know, it's funny. My son said, is it possible that Patrick Mahomes, if he loses a Super Bowl, might not go back? And I actually said, no, it's impossible that he won't be back here. But we said the same thing about Marino in 84 that, you know, he was going to have several more chances. But Mahomes is. No, you're right.

But Mahomes, come on. I mean, this is the second of several. But probably not 10 and probably not a 10th with a different team. When the Brady story is told, it's going to be. mostly about the Patriots, but this year, his first year away from New England, taking Tampa Bay, a team that was seven and nine the year before, and many people will forget the details that Tampa Bay was actually loaded and stacked with talent. But they'll just, it'll be Brady, took Tampa Bay to a Super Bowl. And if he wins it, it'll be even amazing. But just getting them

there, this is going to be a big part of the story. And shit, they might be back there next year with him. Yeah, yes, they might. Absolutely. If he wins it, if he wins it, then where does he stand, I mean, among the greatest athletic accomplishments of all time? The most accomplished team sport athlete ever, because it just was, Russell, in what they did with the Celtics, is just much different. They're not comparable. The number of teams, the, you know, know, the talent. That's always a bogus argument. Why? I mean, because the number of teams are smaller, but the talent was more condensed.

I understand that, Tommy, but the Celtics had, the Celtics, they drafted, you know, they drafted regionally not by, not based on a system where the worst record drafted last every year. They had, they were loaded. I mean, I know that, but you can only play in the system you're in. The only thing that that separates Brady from Russell, if Brady would win it, would be Russell moving to another team and winning an NBA title that year. See, that's the difference maker. This is what would separate you apart from everybody.

I mean, imagine Russell moving to the 76ers, and then he takes them to the NBA championship that year. Like Kareem did with the Lakers after winning it in Milwaukee? Not quite the same because Kareem was still a young man. Right. I don't know. To me, I think he's already the greatest team sport athlete, or most accomplished team sport player of all time. I mean, I know you're going to shrug your shoulders at this, but Tiger Woods is actually probably the most accomplished athlete of all time. I mean, the numbers and the ridiculous numbers during the course of his career are just not really touch. They're not close.

I mean, some people will point to Federer and might point to Nadal and even Serena and what they've done. But it sort of even pales in comparison to Tiger. But in terms of team sport, it's Brady. It's Brady. I mean, Jordan 1-6, Russell won what? Russell 1-11. 11. Jesus, God.

Yeah. That is. Listen, Tiger Woods couldn't carry Willie Shoemaker's job. Okay. I don't want to get into a Tiger Woods thing. Willie Shoemaker held the record for most wins by a jockey for 30 years. Okay. Four Kentucky derbies, two prequenesses, five Belmont states.

Right. Tiger Woods. Why don't you just spend one day, you know, before your trip to Yellowstone, before you're able to do that, you've got a lot of free time, and just go through Tiger Woods versus the rest of sort of individual sport athletes. I just told you who dwarfed him. No. Literally and figuratively.

I don't care. Willie Shoemaker. I don't count. You're going to sit there and tell me that a golfer is a bigger athlete than a jockey. I don't want to get into this. This will take too long. I don't want to start it. Because you don't want to spend the rest of the day feeling like a loser.

Okay. if that makes you feel better. All right, what did you want to say about the Wizards before we get to your Super Bowl pick? What Beal is doing right now as we watch this team sink into Wizards like, you know, deaths. Bradley Beale is obviously on a mission to win the NBA scoring title.

And here's why. It's the only way he's going to get on an all-NBA team. The only way he still can't get recognition from the league for any kind of honor whatsoever. And his only chance of getting on an all-NBA team and getting a max contract that would come with it would be to win that scoring title. And that's what he's doing.

He's trying to get a max contract paid, and he knows his only shot is to win the scoring championship. Well, he's averaging 34.8 points per game. It's four points more than Kevin Durant, who's number two in the league in scoring. You know, I watched some of the game last night, not a lot of it. By the way, congratulations to Georgetown. They now have two wins in a row, and they upset Creighton last night.

Who's the 14th ranked team in the country. I just, when I watch Beale, I do recognize, A, him to be an elite score, B, to have been, to be an incredibly improved offensive player and score. And I give him all the credit in the world, but I watch his whole game, and he's just not a number one player on a contender. He just isn't, in my view. Like, he is not a top 10 player. He, you know, I'd have to go through the whole list.

I'm sure he's pushing inside the top 20, top 15. but, you know, there are, I guarantee you I could rip off in a matter of 30 seconds, 10 players minimum, probably 15 that I would rather have than Beal. Again, he's an elite score, and I think he'd be a really good number two on a championship contending team. I do. I think he'd be a really good number two on a championship contending team. And on a superstar team, like if you're on the Lakers, he'd be a number three between behind LeBron and AD.

He's just not a number one player. He's not going to lead you and carry you to contention. He's not good enough defensively. He's not good enough at making others better. People who watch the NBA, I think, agree with you. I think that's his problem. I think that's why he needs a scoring title so they can't ignore him. Yeah.

I think you're right. I mean, I know people are sitting there going, okay, Shan, go ahead and name the players. Okay, LeBron, Janice, Kauai, Curry, Durant, obviously, AD, obviously, that's six. Donchich, seven, Yokic, eight, Embed, nine. Lillard, I would take, 10, Butler. who did lead his team to contention, 12.

Is that 12 that I just named? 11. 11. Definitely not hardened. Kyrie, no. I'm not putting, I can't stand. They're losers to me. You know what?

I'll tell you what. It'd be very close. Jason Tatum is developing into a real lead on a contending kind of team. whatever it is. You know, Beal's in that conversation now, you know, with Tatum and, you know, but I named 11 or 12. So that's when you start, you know, putting Beal into the conversation. Okay, that's where you start to put him into the conversation. I didn't mention, you know, a guy like Paul George.

Paul George to me is in number two. By the way, in number two, with a number one. Kauai's definitely a number one. Yeah, and for people that will say, no one in Bede, watch him this year. Good God, is he good. and Yokic and Donchich, both I would take in a trade. Somebody said that I was nuts the other day because I said I would trade Beal to Philadelphia for Simmons and a one. And somebody said, well, Philadelphia wouldn't have to give up a one.

Yeah, they would. Yeah, they would. They'd have to give up more than just Simmons. And I would do that deal in a heartbeat. I actually want them to trade Beal. He's going to leave at the end of next year anyway. Yes. Yes, he is.

But the reason he does not want to get traded now, because this is his best chance and best place to win this NBA title, where he's at right now. NBA scoring title. NBA scoring title. Yeah, right. I mean, he goes someplace else. He's not going to do that because they're going to expect him to share the ball and not count on him for as many points. This is his best, this is why he doesn't want to get traded now. Oh, yeah.

This is his place to get paid. Yeah, I mean, look. The thing about Beal, I think that maybe I think Beal actually wants to win. And in the playoff years, you know, those great years with John Wall and those big playoff runs, Beal was he at times was a bit of an assassin.

Like I love the way he competed and played in a lot of those playoff games. And some of them he didn't play well. But I think he'd want... But he's been with this organization, and he knows the owner and he knows his chances of winning here are zero. I know, but what I'm saying is you're saying he wants to stay here to get the scoring title. I'm saying that I think, and he reiterated the other day that he wants to stay.

I don't know why he would want to stay. You know, the other thing about – That's why. To get paid. Yeah, I know. The other thing about Beal, too, is that I don't know that he's the guy that's going to attract the number one guy here. And I don't even know who that number one guy would be. You know, you just, like I'm talking about, you know, I mean, I don't know.

I always feel like I'm overdoing it in criticizing Beal. And I also really recognize that he's truly an elite scorer. And he wasn't that. You know, he's really worked at that. He's so much better as a creator with the ball in his hands and he was as a younger player. He is so much better closing at the rim. He's a great shooter, although he can be a bit streaky at times from long range. But he's a better ball handler, although I still think he exposes it too much,

which is why he turns it over a lot. He still has a terrible assist to turnover ratio. But that's, you know, he's not a point guard. But I don't, I mean, I wish the team with John Wall if they could have continued to build around them with quality defensive players and leaders and smart players to go around them. I think you would have had a team for a long period of time

that could have won 45 games a year and been in the playoffs and won a series or two. But it wouldn't have contended for a title. But only a few teams every year can. Tell you what, this year, the West is going to, I mean, I wanted to see it last year, but the clippers are really, really good. The Lakers are obviously good.

Utah's good. Denver's pretty good. In the east, it's going to be wide open, too. Sixers, bucks, nets. God, I hate the nets, but they're good. Boston. Anyway, it's not going to be the Wizards, Tommy. It's not going to be the Wizards.

No, it's not. All right. Let's finish up the show with Tommy's Super Bowl pick. It's brought to you by MyBooky. MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., All right. For a deposit up to $1,000, they'll match you halfway. And for your selection, before you do this, let me just update everybody on the MyBooky Super Bowl odds right now. Kansas City's minus three and a half minus 115.

And you're going to pay minus 105 on the bucks plus three and a half. The total 56.5 at mybooky, mybooky.orgie.com. Totally reliable, totally safe. You get paid if you win. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll match your deposit halfway up to $1,000. All right, what's your pick? Okay. Kansas City, 38, Tampa Bay 25. 38 to 25. Okay, that would be Kansas City and the over.

All right, 25's a weird number, but that's okay. It doesn't work for you? No, whatever you do works for me. I mean, it's just an odd number. 3828, 2827, 3824. Listen, I have to go, and it's 63 degrees here, and I have to go out and eat lunch outside and have a couple of beers. All right, go do that.

I've got things to do. All right, good. See you. Back tomorrow with Cooley. There's a gleam, man. There's a gleam.