The Kevin Sheehan Show - Brady, Payne, & Kevin Willard

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Kevin opened the show with thoughts on Tom Brady's retirement and Daron Payne's lofty ranking among ESPN'S Top 50 NFL Free Agents. Maryland Basketball head coach Kevin Willard joined Kevin to talk about last night's 66-55 win over 21st-ranked Indiana. Kevin finished with an in-depth recap of Washington's Super Bowl 17 win over the Miami Dolphins 40 years ago.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. One guest on the show today, Kevin Willard, the head Maryland basketball coach, will jump on with us. The Terps had a big win last night at Xfinity Center in College Park, 66 to 55,

over Indiana, who had won five in a row, and they came in ranked 21st in the country. Maryland is rolling at home right now, undefeated in the Big Ten. they very much look like an NCAA tournament team, and it was a convincing win last night over Indiana. So Kevin Willard will jump on with us next segment, and we'll talk about last night's game and where he sees this team headed. And then in the final segment of the show today, I'm going to do the 40-year anniversary of Super Bowl 17. I promised that I would get to that this week. I didn't have time to do it on the actual anniversary date, which was Monday.

January 30th. Washington's first Super Bowl came January 30th, 1983 in Pasadena in the Rose Bowl, 27 to 17 winners over Miami. I'm going to take you through that entire game as Dick Enberg and Merlin Olson called it on NBC. I'd much prefer using the Sam, Sonny Frank call, but those are kind of masked by a lot of NFL films music. The raw call. of that is not available anywhere that I can find. But the actual Super Bowl game, Super Bowl 17, the entirety of that game is available on YouTube. And I went back and watched the whole thing. And I'm going to tell you, as I told you earlier this week, there is a play in this game

that I am pretty sure that most of you don't remember. And so it's a play that with replay would have been challenged. The call on the field would have been overturned. And I don't think it would have had an impact on the final score of the game. I think Washington would have still won the game, but it could have led to a different ending. You'll hear what that is when we get to that in the final segment of the show. Thank you to all of you who keep rating and reviewing us,

especially on Apple and Spotify. From Space Man 62, superb, absolutely superb, great podcast. Thank you, Spaceman 62. He gave us five stars. If you haven't done it yet and you don't mind doing it, you can pause us right now. Take 30 seconds on Apple. Give us five stars. Write a quick one to two sentence review.

It's very helpful. So many of you have done it upon my request and it's much appreciated. It's really, really helpful when it comes to these spots that we do during the show. Yes, some of these spots are certainly interesting. but they pay the bills and we're glad to have them. We really are. So before I get to Kevin Willard and before I get to the 40-year anniversary of Super Bowl 17, I guess the combo of Sean Peyton and Tom Brady to Washington isn't going to happen. I mean, that was my guess, is that that was a super long shot.

But I thought the reporting and the timing of the reporting was interesting because it was looking like Sean Payton might get stuck without any place to go. But Sean Payton is going to end up being the head coach of the Denver Broncos. And Tom Brady retired today. And it sounded official, but it kind of sounded official a year ago, didn't it? I mean, what will happen this summer if a team looks really good on paper but loses a quarterback? You know, it's funny about Tom Brady. I thought last year was like the perfect time for him to retire, even though I thought he was still a good quarterback. The funny thing about this year is that I think he can still play, and I think if you put him on a team like San Francisco, like Miami,

you'd have a really good chance next year to win big in maybe one final season for Brady. But he's got young kids. He's just recently gone through a divorce. Tom Brady, the goat. He is the goat. He's the greatest of all time. He's the greatest, in my opinion, and I'll have more of this conversation with Tommy tomorrow.

Okay, I promise we'll do a lot on Brady tomorrow. And I think we probably did it a year ago. And I probably should go back and listen to that show to make sure that I remember what I said. But what I think I said is what I'll say right now. He's the greatest winner of all time in the history of the NFL. Him and Bill Russell are the two greatest team sport winners throw Jordan. into the mix. But I personally believe that as a 50-year watcher of the NFL, I think he's the greatest winner. I think he's one of the greatest competitors of all time. But if we were to just

say take a season with a decent football team and pick one quarterback to be the quarterback of that team for that year, I think there are quarterbacks that I would take in front of Brady. I think I would take John Elway in front of Brady. I think I would take Dan Marino in front of Brady. I think I might take Joe Montana in front of Brady. But it would be coin flip choices. I just don't think that Brady is the slam dunk greatest quarterback that I've ever seen. He's the greatest winner that I've ever seen, making him the greatest of all time. Nobody's ever going to match his winning. Nobody. Nobody's going to ever match the numbers or the postseason numbers that Brady has amassed over the years. But, you know, in terms of quarterbacks from today, Mahomes is a more

talented quarterback and could end up not being as accomplished as Brady from a Super Bowl and a playoff perspective, although I certainly think Mahomes has a chance to get two, three, four over the next, you know, 10 years of his career. Aaron Rogers has been a quarterback we've all watched. Aaron Rogers is a more talented quarterback than Brady, just not the winner that Brady's been. You know, Brady benefited from Belichick and a great defense early on in some of those Super Bowl's, and Belichick and that defense benefited from Brady as well. But, you know, they had a lot of close calls in those Super Bowls, but then again, they lost a couple that were close calls. I mean, David Tyree, you know, if he's pulled that in, you know, it's another one for New

England and Brady. I just think, and again, I want to save a lot of this conversation for tomorrow. It's one of the most amazing careers in our lifetime that we've ever watched as sports fans, 45 years old and the amount of winning and the greatness, you know, trust, me, what I've just talked about doesn't diminish. It shouldn't diminish the greatness of Brady as a quarterback. I mean, his mind was light years ahead of most defensive coordinators, most defensive players, most quarterbacks that have ever played the game. Peyton Manning is a regular season quarterback. Was Tom Brady's equal? But Peyton Manning was not Tom Brady's equal in the postseason. But Peyton Manning also didn't maybe play on some of the teams that were as well

coach for as good defensively, especially in some of those early years that New England was. But New England, you know, close call against the Rams, close call against the Panthers, got a little bit lucky against Seattle. You know, we can go through the list. You know, they weren't all super convincing and really their best team, their 2017, lost the Super Bowl. But I do consider him, yes, on the Mount Rushmore of quarterbacks, an absolute one of the four and the greatest winner of all time in team sports history when it comes to, you know, along with Russell, you know, but an incredible career. And I do kind of got, I get the sense that it's over. I do. Meantime, Washington does not have an offensive coordinator as of the recording of this

podcast. They have interviewed Anthony Lynn per reports, the San Francisco 49ers assistant head coach, and running backs coach. So that's the sixth candidate that they've interviewed. No interview yet officially of Eric Biennamy. But Washington's now interviewed Zampesey, Schumer, Charles London, Eric Studsville or Studsville, Thomas Brown, right, and Anthony Lynn. Those are the six that have been interviewed so far. But again, no news in terms of, as of the recording of this.

podcast, any announcement on the offensive coordinator. I'm going to stick with my prediction, my prediction being Shermer or Zampeze with a lean towards Zampeze and no real new money, you know, and I think that's kind of where they will end up. But yes, to those of you who tweeted me to say, boy, that was a waste of time on the Rex Ryan stuff. No, it wasn't. It wasn't a waste of time. It was an interesting take, and it came off of two interesting takes last week. Neither one of us, neither Tommy nor I bit into this being real or this happening. We both came to the conclusion that it won't happen, a definitive conclusion, but we

don't know anything about this ownership situation. That's the wild card in all of these conversations. We don't know how close they're coming to a new owner, to. picking one of these several bidders. We don't know the time that will be involved. We know that Jay Glazer reported that it will be a fast-tracked, potentially end of March. Well, end of March could mean curtains for Ron Rivera and everybody in that building. It could.

And they start filling it up with football people and business people. And they keep a couple of key people to make the transition, you know, seamless or, you know, as seamless as Washington can make it. But we don't know the relationships that Washington has and, I'm sorry, that the new owner has right now, whomever that person is. We don't know that they aren't planning a total redo day one rather than waiting a year. One other thing that I wanted to get to real quickly was ESPN put out their top 50 free agents for the upcoming off season. Lamar Jackson's one, Orlando Brown. Junior. The tackle from the Chiefs is two. Javon Hargrave in Philadelphia is three. He had a hell

of a year. And then Duran Payne is four. I mean, he's ahead of, you know, Gino Smith, Sequin Barkley, Daniel Jones, James Bradbury. You know, he's Josh Jacobs, Tremaine Edmonds, Tony Pollard, Marcus Davenport. He's in front of a lot of guys. So their, you know, group. Matt Bowen was part of evaluating all the free agents, had Duran Payne as the fourth best free agent in the upcoming free agency period in the NFL. A lot of you have suggested to me that Duran Payne did it in a contract year. You can't trust him, just like Albert Hainsworth. Remember this. Albert Hainsworth was not a good guy. Albert Hainsworth was also a guy that the coaching staff and the organization didn't know. He came from another team. Duran Payne, they know. You know, this group is going

to be the group that's going to be able to tell anybody, including Duran and his agent, hey, we either trust it or we don't trust it. I'm not suggesting that that's how they would handle negotiations, but they know. You know, I think Duran Payne was a good player in his first few years. I think he was a great player this year. And you should be, somewhat suspicious about a player having his career year and a contract year, but it doesn't mean that that's the only reason he had that great season and that he's going to revert to being a good player after he signs this deal. It could be that he was a young player learning and developing,

and this truly was the timing of his breakout. But we don't know him the person, just like Washington didn't know Albert Hainsworth the person. But the people out there know Durand Payne. They've been with him. They drafted him. Well, not this group. But he's been with the organization.

Jack Del Rio knows Duran Payne. Okay, they know. Ron Rivera knows Duran Payne. Now, again, the ownership situation makes everything murky in terms of what they'll be allowed to do, etc. I personally would like Duran Payne back. I'd also like them to look at extending Cam Curl. I think he's a significant player for them as well.

I would put them at the top of the priority list. And I don't want to forget Montes Sweat. because I think Montes Sweat still has a chance to get better and better and become a dominant pass rusher. I think he's already outstanding against the run. And we'll save Chase Young for another day. Kevin Willard, the Maryland basketball coach, next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. I do want you to know that my bookie right now has a designed deposit bonus that is unique. It lets you cash in and cash out quickly. It's a unique deposit. bonus for sports betters who want to focus on what to bet and not a payout sweat.

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Maryland rolled Indiana last night, 66 to 55. The Terps have won three in a row. That stopped Indiana's five-game winning streak. Joining me right now is the head coach of Maryland, Kevin Willard. A lot of people, including yours truly, starting to get excited about the way you guys are playing, but we'll get to the bigger picture stuff here coming up. Let's start with last night. Why did you beat Indiana?

Yeah, I mean, I think our defensive intensity over the last, I'd say three weeks has really gotten back to where we were at the beginning of the season. And, you know, being at home, having the student section, having the home crowd kind of get behind a lot of local kids. I think it really helped us kind of get focused and get our defensive intensity back. You know, I read what you had said about Trace Jackson Davis before the game. You called him not just the best player in the league, but the best player in America. And you had just faced Zach Edy at Purdue. So I was curious as to how you were going to guard him last night.

And this guy had been on a tear. I mean, I went through some of his numbers yesterday. He had a 25, 21 game. He had an 18, 24 game. That's 18 points, 24 boards. He had 35 and 9. I mean, he's just been dominant recently. and I was interested to see how you would guard him,

and if you would double him a lot, and you guys did double him a lot. And I'm curious from a coaching perspective, when you've got a big guy that's been that good, but is also a really good passer. Talk about the challenges of double teaming a player like that. Yeah, I mean, I think that's what, you know, it's funny, you know, we played Purdue last week,

and Big Jack, I think he had 28 and 12 on us. Yeah. And he's almost impossible. a double because of where he catches the ball and his size. You know, for Trace, it was a little bit more. He, you know, he had, going into the game, he was almost getting five assists per game. So it was either, let's try to make everyone else beat us or see if he can beat us. And I just thought the level of play that he's playing at right now that we had to get the

ball out of his hands. We had to get the ball out of his hands early, not let him see, and just kind of frustrate him as much as possible. You talked about the defense being the key last night, and it's been so good here recently. I think it's been pretty good most of the year. And for those of us, you know, who are big fans that watch every night, you know, we know that you run this 221 full court press. And, you know, you use it a lot. And sometimes it's kind of turnover causing and havoc wreaking.

And sometimes it's, it isn't. You know, sometimes teams handle it. But I want you to speak to for, you know, the fans that don't understand. necessarily the benefits of full court pressure when you're not turning the opponent over. What are you getting out of it? Yeah, I mean, I think that's, you know, I think a lot of people or a lot of fans, you know, when you talk about pressing, they think, oh, they're going to see turnovers and deals. And, you know, in reality, in today's game, with as good a coaches as there are, you know,

pressing is, it's more about wearing down your opponent. It's about the long game. You know, you're going to give up a layup. You're going to give up an easy three. early in the game, but even last night against Indiana, they have an unbelievable freshman point card, but he's never seen 40 minutes of pressure. So for us, it was more about let's get them uncomfortable, let's make them see something they haven't seen all year, let's make them adjust to us. And again, you know, maybe as talented as a freshman as they're in the country,

he goes one to 14, you know, after two days before, he scored 24 points against Ohio State. So that's kind of what the press is designed to do is kind of wear you down. Just get on your nerves more than anything. And when you get an open shot, you know, you're not in rhythm. Kevin Willard joining us on the show right now. Maryland, a 66 to 55 winner last night over Indiana. The Terps are undefeated at home in Big Ten play. They're now six and five, by the way, in the league with the next two on the road

at Minnesota Saturday night and then at Michigan State. Tuesday night. I mean, just the continuing, unrelenting road venues that you have to go to. I'll ask you about that actually in a little bit. But I wanted to ask you about one point in the game last night because Indiana got on a roll in the first half and they took like a seven or a nine-point lead. It was either 22 to 15 or 22 to 13. And you called a timeout. And from that moment on, it was basically Maryland's night the rest of the way. What did you say during that timeout? Yeah, I think the bigger thing that I've learned about this team is that, you know, this team gets a little, at times, nervous at home. And, you know, we have a lot of local kids, which is great.

And we, you know, against UCLA, we started, you know, we started off good and all of a sudden they went on a run. And then we got really, really kind of nervous and tight. And so all I did during the time out, man, I just try to make them laugh a little bit, try to get them to relax, get them kind of focused back on just, you know, playing basketball and having a little bit of fun and, you know, told some jokes, made everybody laugh. You did. What jokes did you tell? I just, you know, I just told them to try to make the, you know, if someone could make the shot, it would really make the old ball, white guy on the sideline happy. Right. Yeah, because they had open shots and they weren't, and they weren't going down.

So do you, I didn't mean to interrupt because I should have let you finish, but do you use your, sense of humor a lot as kind of a way of communicating in those moments? Yeah, I mean, I think every team is different. You know, so with this team I've come to realize they get a little, they get a little tense, they get a little nervous, and I think sometimes yell on the screen is not the way to go with this group. They're such a good group of young men. Sometimes I just need them to relax a little bit and just let their natural talents come

out, and so, you know, it just seemed like the right. moment where we started getting a little anxious. You know, we're at home, big crowd. We don't want things to go the wrong way. You know, they start thinking that way. And for me, it was kind of like, hey, man, let's all take a deep breath. And they're a good team. They're going to make some buckets on us. Let's just smile and go out there and play good basketball.

I think that's interesting because, you know, some coaches, it's all about what their system is, about what their personality is. And what you just described and correct me if I'm wrong, but you've got the ability to kind of judge who you're looking at. at and these young men that are sitting in front of you at a time out, and to handle it with either sense of humor or, you know, have you had teams where screaming and yelling is the best way to get through to them? Yeah, oh, yeah, I've had a lot of teams.

We're screaming and yelling was the best way. But, I mean, you know, with this team, and again, us being new, I know we're not, you know, we're five months into the season, but, you know, we've only been together for seven months. So even different lineups with this team, I've had to be different. So I think figuring out your kids' personalities, figuring out your team's personalities is just as important as your personality. And there's times in games that you have to be a little bit stern, or there's times in games where you have to get your kids to relax and just let them enjoy the moment, let them enjoy a great crowd playing a big-time program.

I just wanted them to get back to focus on just playing and not being so nervous about what's going on in the game. Let's talk about Julian Reese. What's been the difference with him lately here over the last four or five games? I think the big thing everyone forgets is, you know, he popped out his shoulder in the first five minutes of the UCLA game. And he missed, you know, two weeks. So, you know, he didn't practice from December 15th all the way up until a day before the Michigan game. So he's just getting back healthy. I mean, he's healthy.

He's got a good rhythm. he's got great confidence. He's playing terrific. He just went through, unfortunately, you know, when big guys miss more than a week, it really just, you know, it kind of puts him back. And, you know, he's only a sophomore. He's playing big-time minutes. He's playing against some of the best big guys in college basketball. And I think he's playing fantastic basketball. I mean, the gauntlet of Dickinson, Eadie, and then, you know, Trace Jackson Davis last night,

he really in this league is facing the best big men, you know, certainly a significant percentage of the best big men in America. I think one of the things just observationally from my standpoint, I've seen him calm down a little bit more in recent games, not get as frustrated with a foul or a perceived foul. Has that been part of your emphasis to get him to be a little bit less emotional in those frustrating moments? Yeah, I think more than anything what I've seen. side to, you know, again, he, you know, he only played 18 minutes the game last year.

Right. You know, he got subbed and subbed out. Now he's a starting center. You know, he knows how much we depend on it. And I think the biggest thing that that Julie and I have talked about is, you know, your guy's going to score on you. You're playing against Hunter Dickinson. You're playing against Jack Edia.

Like, you're going to get dunked on. Like, it's okay. Like, you know, you just got to let a roll off your back and go back down the other end and go right back at him. And I think as he's played against these guys and he's battled against these guys, I think he's come to realize, like, it's okay if my guy scores on me. You know, as long as I'm out there battling and do what I'm supposed to do. And I think that maturity in the fact that when he gets scored on, that it's not that big of a deal because, you know, it's going to happen when you're going in

and you're playing these guys. You're going to give up a bucket. So don't worry about it. Go back down to the other end, you know, and go right back out. And I think he's got that mentality where now, you know, if he gets scored and he wants the ball, we're going to go right back down. We're going to throw it right back down to him. I'm guessing, and I think I asked you about him very early in the season,

but I really love watching Emelian come in and play. What does he provide your team? Yeah, Pat's been terrific. I mean, that's been one of the things that, you know, Pat's, you know, battle a bad toe and an ankle. And when he's healthy, he just gives us such a different dynamic on the court and the fact that he's undersized, but he knows how to play the game so well. He really understands our defensive schemes.

He's an older guy. I can put him at the power forward. I can put him at the center spot. You know, he's an unselfish young man. And, you know, the biggest thing is he just kind of really knows how to play. He makes everybody on the court so much better. All right. Well, it's February.

It's the home stretch month of the regular season. You've coached long enough to know what you have. have in a team at this point. You're playing your best basketball of the years. So tell me right now what your gut is. You know, what's your sense of what you have and where this thing's headed? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I really like where we are. You know, we've struggled on the road, putting 40 minutes together. But, you know, for this team to come through and kind of battle, you know, I think an extremely tough, you know, we've already played Michigan twice. We're going to end up playing, we play Wisconsin twice, we're going to end up playing Purdue twice by the middle of this

month. You know, I think these guys have really battled. I think they're understanding who they are, which I think is important. I think, you know, Kevin, the one thing that I always said is that, you know, sometimes it takes a while for your team to understand who they are, and I think their start understands, you know, who they are and what they have to, what they have to bring on the defensive end every night. Do you pay attention to, you know, the advanced, you know, numbers, the Ken Palm numbers, the net rankings, you know, any of the bracketologists that are out there? Is that something that you look at and communicate to your team, or is it too early to do that? No, I start looking at that in November.

You'd laugh right now. I got my laptop open and I have my Kenpon page up right now. You do. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's something that, you know, it really helps, you know, again, you know, as stupid as this sounds like, you know, when we lost a couple of a row on the road, You know, I printed out our Ken Palm page, and I showed them where we were, and I showed them what we were doing well. I showed them that we had the hardest conference schedule up to date in the Power 5. So those things can be very good for a team to get them to understand all the analytics, all what people are talking about.

It can also explain to you, hey, guys, this is why we're playing bad, because we've had a really tough schedule. So what's his focus on, you know, keep on working, and eventually the schedule will turn around for us, which, you know, we've got some home games that has. your Ken Palm number right now is exactly where your net number is. You're at 31 right now in the country and climbing. I mean, right now, you know, and I look at this almost every single day as well to see where we are.

And, you know, you've got a schedule left, and I hate to be the person to say to you that it doesn't look as daunting as it did, you know, in December and parts of January. Although Penn State's playing so well and Northwestern's playing so well. So it's probably going to be a pretty tough road. But you guys right now look very much like an NCAA tournament team. I would assume that you would agree with that, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you just look at our non-conference schedule wins, who we played non-conference-wise,

plus who we've beaten in conference, I definitely agree with that. You know, I think, you know, Lannardi has this as a nine or an 18 right now. You know, the way I look at conference schedule is not who you're playing. it's more or less about home and away, and I think, you know, I agree with you in the fact that I think we have a much more balanced home and away schedule for the rest of the conference schedule, which I think is better. Who we're playing in this conference, I know it sounds stupid, but I think it's irrelevant

because everywhere in this conference is so good. Yeah, what has been, you know, you haven't gone through the entire 20 games of a regular season or the Big Ten tournament yet, but being, you know, having been a big East guy for so long. What's been your impression of the Big Ten so far? Yeah, it's a gauntlet, man. It's the real deal. I saw, I told Matt Painter asked, man, I said, I got total respect for you guys. I've been in this conference for 10, 11, 12, 18 years because, you know, I think the biggest difference is the size. And it's not just, it's not the center spot. You know, last night, you know, Indiana had, you know,

their wings were 6-7, 6-8, point guard was 6-6-6. I think the overall size of the conference, and it's every opponent. Every opponent has just big wings. It's a physical league. It's an extremely well-coached league. And so I just have a lot of – you know, the guy like Tom Mizzot has been doing this for so long. I just – you know, he should be in the Hall of Fame three times. Yeah, it's – you know, as a person who was an ACC guy his entire life,

because Marilyn was in the ACC for much of my life. It's taken me a while, but man, I think top to bottom, even though Cameron Indoor and the Dean Dome and U. Hall and Little John, there were great, you know, opposing arenas, I don't think there is many as there are in the Big Ten. It seems like everywhere you guys go, maybe with the exception of Northwestern, you know, in terms of atmospheres, they're incredible. I mean, you were Purdue a couple of weeks ago. I mean, that place is incredible. If Minnesota was good this year, that place, the barn is incredible. What's been your impression of kind of these road atmospheres?

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, we played out of Iowa during the Christmas break, and I think it was a Saturday. Maybe it might be a Sunday game. Yeah, it was a football Sunday, yeah. Yeah, it was Sunday at 430, so I was thinking, you know, maybe they won't have that good of a crowd. I mean, everywhere on the road, they get there about an hour and a half early. It's sold out.

It's packed. Purdue is the loudest, the loudest gym I've been in in a long time. I think that's what makes this conference so great is when you go on the road, you're not playing against good teams, but man, you're going into great atmospheres. And, you know, all the guys that have played, you know, I had a couple guys that played at different conferences. They've just loved the atmosphere. They think, you know, it's really what college basketball is all about. All right.

It's been fun here the last couple of weeks. keep it up. Best of luck Saturday night, you know, up in Minnesota, and we'll talk soon, hopefully. Congrats on the win last night. I appreciate it, Kevin. Thank you so much. Maryland head basketball coach Kevin Willard, everybody. The Terps are rolling. They can't lose, it seems like, at home. They're going to have a big, big game at home coming up on February 16th against Purdue. I hope Purdue is still the number one team in the country at that point. because I don't think, and some of you can correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think Maryland has played a number one team at home since they entered the Big Ten.

I think that's true. I know that they played Wisconsin one night when they beat Wisconsin when Wisconsin was two or three. I think Iowa one night was ranked two or three. I don't think Michigan State's been number one coming into the building. I don't think so. It was on the regular. It was virtually guaranteed that every season, if not every other season in the ACC, they were going to face a number one Duke or a number one North Carolina.

But I don't think they have faced a number one at home anyway in the Big Ten. So if Purdue keeps winning and they play Indiana coming up, Purdue is awfully good. And Maryland gave them as tough of a test as they've had. in the Big Ten, other than Rutgers actually beating them. But they play in College Park February 16th. It's a 630 start. I hate those 630 starts with the traffic we have on a weeknight here. But that could be the first, I think, the first number one team that they've played at home

since entering the Big Ten. But I'm impressed with the job Willard's done, really impressed. good defensive team all season long. I think one of the keys offensively, and I didn't bring this up with them, I should have, they have begun protecting the basketball so well. Their turnovers are way down. They had zero turnovers in the first half last night. I think they're averaging in their four wins here recently less than eight turnovers a game.

That's huge for them because in some of those blowout losses, they were turnover fests. All right. Up next, I promise that I would go down memory lane for the 40th anniversary of Super Bowl 17. I'll do that when we return right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Under ideal conditions, these are the facts. Miami Dolphins are a three-point favorite over the Washington Redskins. They're similar teams. They both like to stay on the ground first, then go to the past.

They both love their defense. The winners today will go home with $36,000 per man. The losers earn $18,000. Those are the facts. Olson, the feelings. The feelings are that the waiting is almost over. Washington has waited 10 years to get here. And of course, the Miami Dolphins have waited nine years to get back to here.

And all of the pain and all the preparation this week, it's a matter of getting out on the field and kicking it off. It's time to go to work. The voices of Dick Enberg and Merlin Olson that day 40 years ago, Monday. I told you I would get to this this week. We just haven't had time. but to celebrate and to remember the 40-year anniversary of Washington's first Super Bowl title. Super Bowl 17, the win over Miami, 27 to 17. Yeah, the dolphins were three-point favorites.

They were excellent defensively heading into that game, but they were not a great offensive football team that particular season. They had David Woodley at quarterback. This was the year before Marino. Remember, the upcoming draft after this Super Bowl, the 1983 draft, Raft featured at the end of the first round, Dan Marino to Miami and Daryl Green to Washington. So Marino and Darrell Green were not in this Super Bowl game. David Woodley was the starting quarterback, and he wasn't very good.

But the dolphins were excellent defensively during that strike shortened 82 season. And they had shut out the Jets in the AFC title game 14 to nothing. But they had Woodley at quarterback, they had that veteran Don Strach, you know, if needed to come into the game. I'll tell you right now in that Super Bowl game, David Woodley was four for 14 in the game as the starting quarterback for 97 yards. One play generated 76 of those yards, and that play came early in the first quarter. Second down and six at the 24. 828 left first quarter. That's hardy in motion.

Woodley to Cephalo, 76 yards. It was a bit of an early gut punch for Washington who had jumped all over pretty much its opponents throughout the postseason. Detroit, Minnesota, Dallas, you know, leading the Cowboys 14 to 3 in the first half. And so they were down 7 to nothing to the dolphins giving up a huge play defensively.

But after matching field goals as we approached the latter portion of the second quarter, Washington on a long drive, and it ended this way. Third to buddy, yard and a hand. And thighsman to throw to Garrett. Alvin Garrett, one of the Smurfs, remember with Charlie Brown and Virgil C, Art Munk, the monster among that group. But Art Munk was out for the postseason, and Alvin Gareth. it ended up with three touchdowns against Detroit, a touchdown against Minnesota, a touchdown in the Super Bowl, five touchdowns during that postseason run.

The score at that point after that touchdown catch was 10 to 10. But on the ensuing kickoff, Fulton Walker, who already had a 42-yard kickoff return after Mark Mosley had kicked a field goal early in the second quarter, he was back to field the Jeff Hayes. kickoff following McGarrick touchdown. 98 yards and the dolphins had a 17 to 10 lead at the break. And I mentioned Woodley's numbers, 4 or 14, 97 yards. Don Strach came in. He was 0 for 3 for 0.0 yards. The dolphins on the day only had 176 total yards of offense and 9 first downs in the game. Washington's defense was dominant. It also helped that Miami was not very good

offensively. So the dolphins needed that Fulton Walker kickoff return because really Washington was the better team on this day. Washington ended up with 400 yards of offense to Miami's 176. So anyway, the second half starts. Washington kicks a field goal for a 17 to 13 deficit in the the third quarter and then late in the third quarter maybe the most important play of the game because if thysman doesn't make the following play the washington redskins would have been down 11 late third quarter in super bowl 17 but here's one of the most memorable plays of super bowl 17 joe thysman breaking up the kim bo camper what would have been pick six Bideman

Batted him. Bill Thaisman playing defensive back on his own pass as it was batted into the air. Boe Camper, a former linebacker

now playing in the defensive line at defensive end has had a tough day today but watch him here as he almost comes with a big play. Thysman cannot get the pass off

rolls back against the grain the batted ball there. Now watch Thysman go up and knock it out of the hands of Kim Boe Camper and Boe Camper said it was my touchdown. So after Thysman makes that play, which basically keeps the game alive, because if not, Washington's down 24 to 13 with a minute and a half to go in the third quarter against a really good defensive football team.

I mean, Miami may not have needed to score again had they gone up 11 in that particular spot. What people may not remember about that drive is it continued. and Washington moved the ball into Miami territory on that drive as the fourth quarter started. But Thysman threw an interception to end the drive. But the big difference was the near pick six, which wasn't, and the actual interception that Thysman threw to end that drive, which came early in the fourth quarter, and it was on a flea flicker, one of those handoffs to Riggins,

he turned back and pitched it to Thysman, and Thysman threw a bomb to Charlie Brown, and it was intercepted by Lyle Blackwood, but at Miami's one-yard line. So the dolphins had a chance to go up 24 to 13 on an interception that they didn't get. They eventually got an interception to stop that drive, but started at their own one-yard line. Big difference because they went three plays, three yards, punted, and Washington, with 1143 to go in the fourth quarter, took over at their own four. 48 yard line. And that set up the most memorable play in franchise history.

There's Bill Ernst Barker. Of course, he's made his defensive call. Let's see he'll win this battle of strategy. So there it was. The most memorable play in franchise history, in my opinion, the most memorable play in D.C. sports history. Riggins, fourth and one with just over 10 minutes to go in the game, 43 years. yards touchdown, Washington had a 20 to 17 lead. Now, the game wasn't over. You know, Miami just needed a fuel goal to tie to potentially force overtime, a touchdown to take the lead. Now, they were a mess offensively in this game, as I've already pointed out. They punted on the next drive, and Washington literally took over after a very short punt at Miami's 41-yard line. They had the in Miami territory with 849 to go in the game.

And it was basically the same drill that they ran against the Cowboys the week before with the lead. Riggins for six yards. Riggins for three yards. Riggins for two yards. Riggins for seven yards. All right. Then Riggins for no gain.

And then Clarence Harmon came in and he picked up four yards to move the sticks. Now we were down to five and a half to go in the game. Riggins for one yard. Clarence Harmon, no game. gain, and then on third and nine, Thysman threw a pass to Charlie Brown for a first down with 345 to go in the game. And then that set up the play that I had mentioned yesterday and maybe even the day before that I'm pretty sure most of you don't remember. And maybe you do. I did not remember it. And I think I have a pretty good memory when it comes to some of these Redskins games and Redskins moments.

So with three and a half to go at the Miami nine-yard line holding a three-point lead, Riggins goes for three yards. And then on second and six at the Miami six, this play happened. And I'm going to let it run and I'm going to let you hear the conversation between Dick Endberg and Merlin Olson describe what happened on replay. Remember, there was no challenge ability. There was no replay booth in 1983 in January of 1983. But this is a play that until I went back and watched this game over the weekend,

I didn't remember at all. Again, it's second and goal at the Miami 6 with just about two and a half minutes to go, Washington leading 20 to 17. On the 6. Stopped at the 6. Humbled the ball. and Miami. Was he down?

He was down. Rone came up with a football, but after Riggins was down, and look who was on him, Disman, who made a big, maybe the biggest defensive play of the game when he had a pass deflected and he knocked it away from Boat Camper

would have been a sure Miami touchdown. Joe Gibbs, breathing a little sigh of relief over there as he realizes that they have dodged a bullet. Riggins rarely fumbles at football. And this one does not pop out until John hits the ground. Well, maybe we'd better look at that. The official's ruling it's down, and the official had a good view of that play.

A second look at it. Check it for yourself. Leg on the ground. Very tight. Another look at it. Oh. Well, his knee was down. He was down when he bubbled a football.

Dick, I hate to argue with you, but I think maybe that was a fumble. And I'm sure that Miami will look at that one many times on their projectors. But the official did have a good angle. We're given the credit for that. And we'll look at it again. It's his knee down when he loses the football. If the ball bounces loose as he hits the ground, it is not a fumble. But that is the question.

I don't believe it is. I think the ball is out before his knee hits the ground. Merlin Olson was right. I have gone frame by frame. That ball was jarred loose before his calf or any part of his knee hit the ground. That was a fumble. and that would have been overturned. Actually, it would have been challenged in that moment because it was prior to the two-minute warning.

Miami had a clear recovery on the play as well. Now, the guy that recovered the football would have been tackled immediately by Thysman. Now, he could have pitched it in that situation, but Thysman, you know, Thysman, it looked like saw it as a fumble as well and went to tackle the linebacker that recovered the fumble. But it was a fumble. I mean, there's no doubt about it when you go frame by frame. That ball is jarred loose before any part of his calf touched or his knee touched. And they had not ruled forward progress stopped at that point.

At least there's no clear indication that forward progress had been stopped. It's interesting to hear them, you know, without replay being available to hear Enberg and Merlin Olson talk about the play and talk about how, you know, Miami's will be looking at that play on their projector. and their film projectors. But looking at it realistically, even if it had been called a fumble, Miami's offense was so awful that day. Washington's defense so effective that day. They would have taken over from their own nine-yard line with about 220 to go, needing a long way to go for field goal range. And they had not done anything offensively, really since the first drive of the football game for all intents and purposes. But Joe Thaisman made it academic anyway.

On the very next play, third and goal from the six, the game clincher. And that basically was it. Thysman to Charlie Brown six yards out, 27 to 17 after the Mosley extra point. And Washington was on their way to becoming Super Bowl champions. Miami did nothing on the ensuing drive. You know, they couldn't move the ball at all against Washington. Don Stroke came into the game and went 0 for 3. And then Washington took over with about a minute, 12 left and ran the clock out with Clarence Harmon actually in there instead of Rigo.

Rigo was over on the sideline, and you'll hear when Enberg references the MVP announcement for Rigo. Look, this game was really dominated by Washington. The final score wasn't necessarily reflective of how Washington dominated at the line of scrimmage. Washington, again, I mentioned this earlier, 400 total yards to 176 for Miami. 24 first downs to 9 for Miami. Miami ended up with 17 points, none in the second half, but really it was two plays. It was a 98-yard kickoff return by Fulton Walker. And early in the game, Woodley threw a touchdown pass to Jimmy Cephalo, where the coverage just

broke down and it was a 76-yard play. I mean, Woodley in the game was four for 14, as I mentioned, for 97 yards. Other than that, one play, three of 13 for 21 yards. Picked off once, sacked once. It was a disaster for him. They couldn't run the football either. They ended up with 96 total rushing yards on 29 carries in the game. Washington was the better team. They really were the better team, and they won it 27 to 17. Washington ended up, by the way, with 276 yards rushing in the game, led by, you know, Riggins 38 carries a buck 66, Super Bowl record at the time, but also in the game, Clarence Harmon rushed the ball nine times for 40 yards. Alvin Garrett had a reverse for 44 yards. Thysman had 20 yards rushing, and Doc Walker took a reverse for

six yards. Thysman was 15 of 23 for 143 yards, two touchdowns, and two interceptions. And Washington's lone sack in the game was Dexter Manly. Their lone interception was by Mark Murphy. So there it was. 2717. What's left was the countdown to a championship, which includes Enberg waxing poetic.

on not only John Riggins, but the Washington win. So I'm going to leave you with a few minutes here. You'll hear the final countdown, the announcement of Riggins is the MVP, and then some of the locker room stuff, where Jack Kent Cook is handed the trophy by then Commissioner Pete Roselle, and then Mike Adamley,

working for NBC in the locker room, does an interview with Jack Kent Cook and Joe Gibbs, and you'll hear as part of that, if you stick around for it, and I'll leave it all up here. at the end of the podcast, a call for Joe Gibbs from the nation's capital from President Reagan. All right, that's it for the show today. Back tomorrow with Tommy, but enjoy these few minutes of the countdown to Super Bowl 17 and some of the locker room stuff.

And Dick, when they stop to analyze the performance today, I'm sure that much of the credit will go to Dan Henning and Joe Gibbs for the brilliant design of this package. Not only the power running and taking advantage of what John Riggins was able to do with his body. But the clever way they used motion, the way they used the Smurfs in this game today. What a tremendous prize. The announcement now it's official, the most valuable player, Super Bowl 17, John Riggins. Bale games, even big ones, come and go. Scores are forgotten.

Somehow you always associate once that name is in print, performance. John Riggins will be remembered in Super Bowl history for his remarkable performance today. As a first down, and with that goes any faint hope of the Miami Dolphins. Riggins during the regular year gained 553 yards in the playoffs. He's gained over 600 yards in the four money games of the playoffs. Riggins gained more yardage than he did in all nine games of the regular season. And he had gone to Gibbs and he decided at 33 that he said, hey, give me the ball. It was that simple.

He doesn't talk much to anyone, the press, the coaches, maybe his teammates. Give me the ball. Gibbs says you've got it. And the Redskins will take that right home along with some very expensive rings. 15 seconds left. John Riggins, the MVP, Joe Gibbs, the NFL coach of the year in his second season. Hail to the Redskins. Braves on the warpath.

Victory for Old DC. Congratulations. There's certainly in order to you. Your coach of the year, Joe Gibbs, your general manager, Pete, brother Bob Bethard, and this courageous bunch of Redskins players for coming back to beat an outstanding Miami team today.

I think that you had the best record undoubtedly on the NFC, and you won first record. three playoff games. Today, you are triumphant giving our capital its first Super Bowl championship. Thank you very much, Pete.

Thanks indeed. Now, there's a few things I'd like to have answered. Do we keep this? You do. Forever. Forever. This is ours. Second, you said we had the best record in the NFC. My dear Pete,

we've had the best record in the NFL. Hail to the Redskins. Head coach Joe Gibbs, just your second season and already you are a winning Super Bowl coach, your feeling. Well, I just want to say that we're all thrilled. Part of this goes back to ever Redskinned fan back home that pulled us to help us get us here. I'd just like to say that I want to thank first of all God, second Mr. Cook, Bobby Bethard, our fans back home and our players. I'm just thankful for all those people in that order. God first. Thank you.

Coach, at halftime, it was 1710. The Redskins were down the long. Bolton Walker kickoff return for a touchdown. Momentum, obviously, on the Dolphin side, what did you tell your team? I told our team that we've been in tougher spots than this. I said we were down 14 to 3. Earlier in the year against Philadelphia and came back to win. I said, we've been in a lot of tight squeezes.

I said, there's a lot of things haven't gone right for us in the first half. I said, they'll turn around. I said, I just got a good feeling about it. And they all told me the same thing. They said they did too. We went back out and just tried to stay loose and play football. In your wildest dreams, did you ever think you'd dominate this Miami Dolphin team like you did this afternoon and tonight? Well, I think that we've been, some people underestimate us because we're a total team.

We've been kind of a tough, physical team, and I think that's what you've got to be to win the Super Bowl. You've got to be tough and physical, and you've got to take your chances. We try to do that today and just play our game. That's all we wanted to do. I was a little surprised that we were able to move the ball as well as we did. One of the biggest enigmas in the National Football League, John Riggins. I played with him in New York. He was crazy then.

He was crazy here, but he had a... Unbelievable afternoon. No, that's unfair of you, Mike. He's not crazy. No, he's not crazy in that sense. Mr. Cook's trying to say that John Riggins, very intelligent person when you get to know him. He sets his own path in life.

He sure helped carry us. He's a very important part of our team, and there's a lot of other guys. This is a total team effort, all of our fans and everybody pulling together. Our family won this trophy. Okay, Coke Chibs, a very important phone call. Washington, D.C. on the line.

Yes, sir. Hello, Coach. Yes. Coach, Ronald Reagan. Mr. Reagan. Listen, I just want to say congratulations to you. And this week when I was found to be hurt, and I know you couldn't hear me.

I can hear you fine now. Well, I was just asking if maybe now that the season's over and I'd like to help me up on Capitol Hill. Washington fans sharing this. Each one of them has a little part of this trophy. President, thank you. You bet. Yes, sir.

Coach Joe Gibbs, congratulations. Owner, Jack Ken Cook. I know you have one thing to say to the Redskin fans. It's simply this, that is magnificent. team of yours has the privilege of playing for what, in my opinion, of the finest fans, not just in America, but on the face of this earth. Thank you, you marvelous Washington fans.