The Kevin Sheehan Show - Bram Weinstein

Episode Date: September 9, 2020

Bram Weinstein joined Kevin to talk about his debut this coming Sunday as the new radio play-by-play voice for the Washington Football Team. Bram also weighed in on the kind of year he thinks the team will have. Kevin also spent time talking about Dwayne Haskins, an interesting ranking of the Skins' defense, the NBA playoffs, and Colin Kapernick's rating on Madden 21. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right, we'll get the show started here momentarily. Bram Weinstein's going to be our guest on the show today. But I've got to tell you about my bookie's offer for the opening NFL game of the year tomorrow night. Chiefs Texans tomorrow night from Arrowhead, the defending Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs, open up the season as 10-point favorites in most places against Houston. But at my bookie, to celebrate the return to football, they are changing the point spread for you. You can get the Chiefs tomorrow night. plus 54 points.

All right, Super Bowl 54 is champion. You can get 54 points tomorrow night. Up to a $50 bet, betting the Chiefs. They're handing you the money. Only six teams in the history of the NFL have ever lost by more than 54 points. Tomorrow night, you can bet up to $50 at my bookie.orgie. Using my promo code, Kevin, D.C. When you sign up with MyBooky using my promo code Kevin D.C.,

They're going to double your first deposit. It's a no-brainer. You get the Chiefs Plus 54 tomorrow night, and they'll double your first deposit when you sign up. MyBooky.ag, no better offer than the Chiefs Plus 54 in the opener tomorrow night. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about.

The Kevin Sheeons show. Now here's Kevin. Bram Weinstein will be our guest here momentarily. Bram's going to be the new voice of. of Washington football, and he'll debut with Julie Donaldson and DeAngelo Hall Sunday 1 o'clock at FedEx Field on the Team 980, my radio station, which is also the flagship station for Washington football. Bram's an old friend. We will catch up and find out how excited he is to be the new voice of the Washington football team. I want to get to a few things, though, before. And I'm going to start with this, because I saw this last night, talked about it a little bit on the radio today, took calls on. this. But Dwayne Haskins, according to sports betting AG, is the favorite to be the first

NFL quarterback benched in 2020. He's a sizable favorite at that. He's plus 150 to be the first starting quarterback benched in the year 2020. Ryan Fitzpatrick is second. He's got Tuatunga by Loa behind him. Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, and Tyrod Taylor. Those are your top five. But Dwayne is the heavy betting favorite to be the first starting quarterback benched in this NFL season. Add to that a couple of other things. If you've been involved in a fantasy football draft here recently, you get the rankings and you're going through the draft. I did my fantasy football draft on late last week.

Sali, Steve Solomon runs it. A bunch of us from the station are involved and have been involved in this fantasy football league for years. I didn't even check to see what Dwayne's ranking was. I just didn't think of it. But people told me that Dwayne was the 38th ranked quarterback in the NFL on this particular fantasy football site that we were using. I think it was ESPN, actually. That means that five backups were ranked higher than Dwayne Haskins.

My question that I'm going to answer myself and you can contemplate at home or wherever you're listening to this, why is he so disrespectful? around the league. Why is he shorted as much as he is? I think the answer is really simple. And I thought about this when I saw this information on Haskins. First of all, I think it's a joke. I do not think he'll be the first quarterback benched in 2020. I think the quarterbacks like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Tyrod Taylor,

who have first round draft choices waiting in the wings like Tuatunga Viloa and Justin Herbert behind Tyrod Taylor in L.A. playing for the Chargers are more likely to get an opportunity if those two teams are bad. I don't think it'll be Haskins. I think if Haskins is healthy, he starts 16 games, period. That's what I think. I think there are several reasons for that. I've gone over him many times before.

I think there's something to him. He's competitive. I think that he plays with a level of urgency and smarts, and he's got all the physical tools, and I thought we saw progress at the end of last year that was very encouraging. I would be surprised, barring injury, if Dwayne Haskins doesn't start 16 games.

Again, do I think he's going to be elite? I don't. Do I think he's going to be Tom Brady or Drew Brees or Patrick Mahomes? I don't. But do I think there's a chance he could become Matt Stafford or Kirk Cousins? Yes, I do. And a playmaking version of both of those guys. I think Stafford's a pretty good playmate.

And a lot of you roll your eyes when I mentioned Cousins. Sorry, but Cousins is a top half of the league starting quarterback, period. And so whether you like them or not, and whether or not you think, you know, you can win the big one with them, that's really irrelevant at this point. He's a top 16 starting quarterback in the NFL. I think Dwayne has that potential. And I think he's got more playmaking ability than a guy like Cousins does. And I'm a big Cousins fan, but I'm a Dwayne fan too.

But here's the reason people short Dwayne Haskins, in my view. He got drafted by the wrong organization. He got drafted by an organization that is bottom feeder in the NFL, as we've discussed many times. And he got drafted by this organization in the wrong season. Lame Duck head coach who didn't want them. Dissension with the football people and the owner on who should be picked. A team president that thought they were close and traded for Case Keenna. and needed to, you know, sort of validate his, we're close for the last couple of years by doing

something last year and potentially winning something last year, which obviously never happened. And it just was dysfunctional. It's always dysfunctional in this organization, as we know, but it was more dysfunctional last year. And Dwayne got caught up in all of that. And because of that, there were stories that came out about Dwayne's work ethic, about how committed he was. to the playbook about how much of the playbook he knew, including from some players, but a lot of it was leaked by an organization that's leaked like a sieve over the last many years. And it was just a shitty situation for him to walk into. Most top half of the league drafted quarterbacks don't

walk into great situations. But this one was particularly awful for him. So yeah, I think that he got drafted by the wrong team. And I think a lot of the stories that came out about him stuck. I think being associated with this group of people stuck. I think some of his performances early on as a backup when he hadn't taken any reps in the Meadowlands against the Giants. Remember how much he was crucified for not being ready for that performance. I think a lot of that influences the way people feel. He also was playing with a supporting cast that wasn't necessarily you know, very good. I mean, he elevated that supporting cast at the end of the year.

That's how much he had improved by the end of the year, that the reason they were in that Eagle game and the Giant game at halftime, I think was mostly because of Dwayne Haskins. He was playing with a terrible defense and a supporting cast offensively. It just wasn't very good. But he got drafted by the wrong team. If he had been drafted by the Chicago Bears who had a needed quarterback, or let's just say the Giants had drafted Dwayne Haskins

instead of Daniel Jones. I don't think that he would be the favorite to be the first quarterback bench this year. I don't. I think it has everything to do with the situation he walked into, how dysfunctional it was. And does he deserve some of the blame for not being ready to come off the bench and perform better than he did in the giant game? Does he bear some of the responsibility for the league done messed up,

for, you know, being a little bit smug at times last year? for some of the things on social media, for what happened at the end of the Lions game, taking a selfie in the crowd when the game wasn't over yet. He does, but I think the real responsibility lies with the team that drafted him. And I think if almost any other team in the league had drafted him, people wouldn't view him in the same light. He drafted him.

People wouldn't view him in the same light. second thing I want to get to related to the football team is pro football focus, which a lot of people really rely on for evaluation of teams and players. And pro football focus has gotten much better in recent years. They've really improved. We had somebody on from pro football focus, if you recall, one of the early employees, an Irish guy. I can't remember his name right now, but he was great on the podcast.

We had him on a while back. and they've improved a lot of the things that they've been doing over the years and evaluations of players and teams and position groups and units, etc. They put out over the weekend their rankings of the top 32 defenses in the NFL. And because we've been talking a lot about the Washington defense and how much we all believe it will improve because of better coaching and existing talent and then the addition of perhaps an elite defense, talent in Chase Young, I thought you'd be interested to see where pro football focus graded them

and where they ranked them among the 32 teams defensively. Before I tell you where they were ranked, understand this about the way they evaluated defenses. It's very important. Pro football focus, their analysis, their evaluations defensively, value past coverage more than pass rush. Now, I'm not going to bog you down with all of the details as to why, because they certainly admit that there is a collaborative effort, that these two are coordinated with each other. A better pass rush means less time to make a bad mistake on the back end, and better coverage gives a pass rush more time to get to the quarterback. But in recent years, they have essentially been influenced more by a defense with good past defense, good pass coverage, excuse me, versus a

pass rush. They believe that it correlates more with winning than a pass rush does. The past coverage grades for them correlate more with winning than pass rush grades do. Now, there's a big reason why that might be true now, and I'm not disputing that that's super important and maybe more important than it was in years past. The single biggest reason is that teams throw the ball faster than they ever did. There's less true full dropback, and there's more things like RPO and read-option throws and just quick passing game, you know, quick West Coast pass offenses.

But the RPO has a lot to do with it. So it nullifies, negates, if you will, you know, a great pass rush. and it puts more pressure on past defense. I know that pro football focus, as an example, it may have been in the 2020 NFL draft. I'm trying to think the Ohio State corner that got picked super early this year. Jeff Okuda. Jeff Okuda got picked by the lines at number three overall.

And I think pro football focus felt that Okuda in many ways was more valuable than Chase Young, that a true shutdown corner was, more valuable to winning in today's NFL than a dominant pass rusher. So anyway, before I give you these rankings, understand that that is a big part of what influenced their rankings, is that past coverage gets valued more than a pass rush. So where did the Washington defense that we all think is so great? Where did it finish in the rankings on pro football focuses rankings of 1 to 32? defenses entering the 2020 season.

29 ranked 29th out of 32 teams. I mean, this team is so, so disrespected, so low in expectations that the best part of their football team that I think we all believe is the 29th ranked team on pro football focus. Take it for what it's worth. I'll read to you what they say. Led by second overall what they wrote. Led by second overall pick Chase Young. Washington's D-line is one of the best in the NFL, so they acknowledge that. Young is easily the best pass rusher that PFF has ever graded when it comes to college-era players. He produced a 96.4 pass-rush grade in his final year at Ohio State. The team returns Ryan Carrigan and Matt Ionitis, who have both been consistent

pass-rushers in their respective careers. Then they get into Duran Payne and John Allen and Montez-Swet and talk about how good their defensive front is. But then they get to the rest of the defense. They write, PFF does. Outside of the trenches, things get a little ugly. The linebacker unit is underwhelming on paper and desperately needs long-time veteran Thomas Davis to get back to a top-tier level that they routinely saw from him when he played with Ron Rivera in Carolina, as opposed to his play in 2019 with the Chargers that they

evaluated is very average. Now, they mentioned Ruben Foster as a big wild card. This was obviously written before Ruben Foster was placed on injured reserve. Then they get to the secondary. The story of the coverage unit as a whole is, can X

player get back to form? And what they talk about in particular are three players. Landon Collins, Ronald Darby, and Kendall Fuller. Landon Collins, they write, was his normal self in the box against the run in 2019.

But he had a down year from a coverage perspective, producing his lowest coverage grade since his rookie year. Meantime, cornerback Ronald Darby comes to Washington after also having a down year in 2019. He produced a PFF grade of above 68 in his first four years but dipped to 44.8 last year, which was the third worst in the NFL. Then about Kendall Fuller. Kendall Fuller comes back to the team after being a versatile piece. for the chiefs over the past two years.

In 2017, he was one of the NFL's best slot defenders. At this point, though, it seems likely he will occupy one of the starting outside spots, a position in which he has played under 200 total snaps over his career. Overall, PFF concludes about the 29th ranked defense going into 2020. Washington's defense has the boom or bust tag ahead of the 20. 2020 season. I guess if you're evaluating it on coverage more than pass rush, that would be true. Do I agree with that theory, that that belief that it, and they've got numbers to back it up,

that better pass coverage leads to a better win probability than a great pass rush. I know it's more important in a game and where the ball is getting out offensively much faster than it used to, but I do think a great defensive front, especially. an interior pass rush can really impact a game more than a great corner can. That's my view. Let's get to Bram Weinstein here. After I tell you about Roman, talking about erectile dysfunction, guys, isn't easy. Usually we just brush it off or blame ourselves saying things like I lost my mojo, or we avoid it all together with excuses like, I had a long day at work, we're sorry, honey, I'm just not feeling it.

Or in my case recently, including last night, not that I was asked about this, but the answer would have been, you know, the NBA playoffs are just too good. I'm really into those right now. But with Roman, it is easy to talk about it. With a real health care professional who can prescribe real medication,

it's simple, safe, and totally discreet. With Roman, you can get a free online evaluation ongoing care and ongoing care for ED, all from the comfort and privacy of your home. A health care professional will work with you to find the best treatment plan. And if medication is appropriate, Roman will ship it to you with free two-day shipping. The whole process is straightforward, simple, and discrete, and getting started is really simple. Just go to getRoman.com slash Kevin DC.

That's getRoman.com slash Kevin D.C. And complete an online visit. A rectile dysfunction used to be tough to tackle, but now there's Roman. Complete an online visit today. Complete an online visit today to connect with a healthcare professional to take care of it. Go to get roman.com slash Kevin D.C. today. If approved, you'll get $15 off your first order of ED treatment. That's get roman.com slash Kevin D.C.

Get roman.com slash Kevin D.C. All right, let's bring in Bram Weinstein, a good friend, long-time friend, and now the new radio play-by-play voice of your Washington football team. You know that I'm happy for you. I really am, and I'm glad that it's you, and I think you're going to be great at it. I'll start with this. How surprised are you that this is now. your job as, you know, one in a very short line of play-by-play voices in franchise history?

Maybe you feel the same way. I don't know, because I've never talked to you about this. I don't think we've ever talked about this because none of us anticipated the way this happened, obviously over the last few months that the position would be open. I didn't anticipate that happening for a number of years, but, you know, we are here. We all know why. You know, we're here. am I surprised? So I would say this, like from the perspective of I don't have a deep background in play-by-play, I could see where that would have not, like, helped by cause. But I have forever looked at this position and said that's the one I want.

And even when I was at ESPN, I begged my bosses to give me play-by-play experience for this purpose. like to one day potentially come back and if the timing was right, have an opportunity to do this specific position. So I don't know if I don't have surprised the right word. Like, you know, it's funny. Like, I know I wasn't, I actually thought this was actually in my favor. No one talked about me getting it, which I actually think helped me, honestly. Like, I was not being written about or talked about as someone who was really a candidate.

And yet, like, what I think about it, I go, well, I cover the team for eight years. years. I was on the broadcast before as a sideline reporter. I've worked with you in pre and post game for years. I've hosted shows here for years. I've been literally connected to them. People still remember the way I said my name funny, you know, in reports for years. I never thought that I was an illogical candidate for this, but I actually appreciated that I was under the radar because I think sometimes if names just get put out there, then people, you know, make a rash decision about whether they think that person would be good or not. And I was afraid, you know, that maybe people would have an adverse reaction.

But generally, it's been pretty good. And I guess the long answer to your question is, and I don't want this to come off like the wrong way. Like, I'm not surprised, you know, that I got the opportunity to do this. I've been thinking about doing this my whole life. So no, not really. Did you talk to Dan Snyder about this at all? No. No.

I haven't. I want to, actually. I want to, but I have not. And, you know, there's, I don't have a direct line dam. So, you know, that's number one. And then number two, he has a lot going on, you know. And so I'm waiting to get the – I'm assuming that we are going to speak. And I'm waiting for, you know, someone to get to me and say he would like to speak with you because I would like to do that.

You know, one of the things I thought about, and, you know, obviously in our circle of work people, friends, people that we used to work with, people that we've competed against, et cetera. you know, a lot of people asked me, you know, they would say Bram Weinstein got the job, you know, what was the deciding factor? And I said, I don't know, but Bram's a professional broadcaster. You know, Bram's done everything in sports broadcasting, even as you said, even without the play-by-play background, I know that he will be a pro, and I think they're going to try some new things in the booth, which I'll get to in a moment. but one of the things that occurred to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. But, you know, in the last 10 years, Bram, Dan's become a massive public recluse. I mean, I don't know that you can count more than five actual interviews on one hand, you know, that you can count more interviews than on one hand over the last 10 years.

But in those first 10 years of ownership, when you were covering the team for several of those years, as the 980 beat reporter, he was more accessible. And my memory is, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you actually talked to him maybe more than anybody did during that period, with maybe the exception of Doc or somebody like that, you know, a former player. Am I right about that? Do I remember that correctly? No, he was way more accessible at the time.

In fact, so back then when he first owned a team, he used to annually have like a big dinner get together for you know select members of the media that were generally on you know the beat and I was part of that he would take us out to dinner or he'd have some kind of get together um he granted me I don't know it's a handful of one-on-one interviews right years and often told me like ask whatever you want you know go ahead and I remember like I mean this is going way way way back but there was like early in his ownership there was like a rumor that he trashed one of the suites at the, at the old Cowboys stadium. And I asked him about it, and he started laughing.

He was like, no one, everyone was afraid to ask me questions like this. Because I didn't do that, you know, and he went on and on. And he actually, you know, I wouldn't say I was close with him. I wasn't. But, like, as far as media members went, he was accessible to me, at least early, you know. And when I would see him, he would speak to me. I have not talked to him in a long time. and I don't think a lot of people have

so to your point, yes, and I've actually been harping lately, especially with what's going on with the team, all the changes. I would love for him to come out and do just an interview. Pick somebody he likes, you know, whoever it is. Adam Schaefter, you, Gail King, whoever.

Pick somebody and speak to the fan base again. Because there's so much going on right now that I think everyone needs to hear from him, especially amid what is happening, which is clearly like a mutiny with his minority owners. Yeah, I think Bram over the years, I think he's developed a real anxiety about doing that. And I think we saw that sort of manifest itself the day that Ron Rivera was introduced. And by the way, that is a number one phobia in America. You know, it's not unusual for people to have sort of a public speaking, you know, phobia or anxiety.

I think we've seen that in recent years. And back to what you said, that was my memory. And I said, you know, Bram probably talked to him during those first, you know, six, seven years of ownership more than anybody in the market. And I would bet to this day, if there was a running count of the local media members that have interviewed Dan Snyder, you or Doc are probably at the top of the list. in terms of an actual public interview. George Michael, maybe. George. Very, very early.

George Michael. Yep. Maybe Lindsay, maybe. I don't know. Maybe. But like, because they had a good relationship with four back then. Right. Things obviously are very different with that department now.

But, you know, yes, early, early, I would just, it was funny. Like, you know, so many people would say all these, you know, terrible interactions that they had with them. I didn't have those. And I'm not just saying that. I just didn't. didn't have those. Again, like, I'm not going to sit here and try to pretend I was, like, close with him. I really wasn't. But as far as, like, the media goes, and it was beyond arm's length, and it still is, you know, its team. Mine was a little bit closer than others. And my interactions

with him were generally pretty pleasant and pretty respectful. All right, let's talk about the booth and what it's going to be like. You know, we got sort of a description that it's going to be a little bit untraditional, a little bit more of an attempt to be cutting edge. Describe it for us. So, you know, Sunday's your first game, and what should people expect? So I think you're going to get a game. Let me be clear about that because, you know, like there's a lot of, you know, what are they going to do?

Is it going to be, you know, a completely, completely different thing? Like, we're still servicing, you know, a segment of population that's either interoperable. car can't see what's happening. You know, so we need to call the game. That is going to happen. We are incorporating a lot of new ideas. Will they come out immediately, week one against Philadelphia? Maybe, maybe not.

Like, I think more for us right now, I think it's been, at least for me, like, over the last, you know, going back to the it experience of doing this, I really think, and you'll understand this term, we really want to do this cleanly, you know, the first couple of times. because more than anything, like, this is the first time Julie's going to be in the booth doing this. DiAngelo is not new to media, but this is new. Play-by-play for him, too. He hasn't called games before. And, of course, this will be the first time I'm calling a game.

And honestly, we're talking here on a Wednesday. I'm ready to be shot out of a cannon. I'm so excited about it. So I'm trying to temper myself, you know, a little bit. So I think more than anything, I think for us at least early, we would just want it to be clean and be good and not make a lot of mistakes. And then from there, over the course of the season, I think, is where you're going to see implemented changes kind of slowly. We want it to be more socially inclusive. This thing is going to be streamed, so there's going to be video.

So we're hoping that it kind of becomes a second screen experience with over time. There probably will be fantasy. There probably will be gaming. They probably will be gambling when those type of relationships and partnership start to get to the forefront with legalization in the area in partnership. So I can't really answer the question exactly. I keep saying this, and I feel this way, and I think it's true. They play the Eagles Week 1. They play the Eagles Week 1.

I think the broadcast is going to morph into something completely different by the time we get to the end of the year. For you going into this, looking at it very realistically, which I think you have the ability to do, not all of us are self-aware. What do you think will be easy for you, and what do you think will be a challenge? Um, so I thought a lot about that. So, you know, like, I'm not nervous, the way I would, the easiest way I would put it. Like, the most nervous I ever really was was the first couple of weeks at ESPN, because when they hired me, I'd never anchored a television show like that, ever. That's not true. Montgomery County Cablevision.

You and are the number one and number two alum from there. Not for an hour, not for three hours. I had never done anything like that. Like a six-minute segment about BCC Gathersburg, I could pull off. But they run up to you and hand you a shot sheet at the last second of a Utah Jazz and Gallic Maver's game. You haven't seen an iota of it and say, do the highlights of. It's frightening when you've never done it before. Right.

And so I got used to it. And, you know, I like, again, like, I don't want this to come off the wrong way because, you know, I want to do a really good job at this. and I don't pretend I have the answer new for me. But I do feel like through the years I've learned that there's craft involved in what we do. You've done play by play. I think you understand this. There's a different delivery and timing and cadence that comes with reps. And it's craft.

Like, I can sit there and describe football. I'm not concerned about that part. Will I have the timing right? Will I have the delivery right? It may take me, you know, a few weeks to kind of get into what the delivery style. is. And at the same time, you know, I'm going to be relying a lot on Julian DeAngelo to kind of carry some of that as well, and hopefully we'll get into, like, you know, what we call the flow of it. I'm really, like, I am most concerned just about timing. And, you know, hopefully I won't

mess up a name or anything like that. I'm big that's my fear that I'm going to, you know, call a touchdown. It's the wrong receiver. You know, something like that. Like, I don't want that to happen, obviously. But, like, outside of that, outside of, like, a glare at, mistake like that, it's really, I think it's just going to be timing for me. And I think you probably understand that because you've done play-by-play. It's just a different delivery style. But I feel like as long as I can get my energy right, and that's hard to do, there's a different energy for, say, doing highlights or doing a lead-in or doing a radio show, for that matter. So I need to really self-edit and self-observe. And I'm going to be listening to myself.

And I've contacted just about every play-by-play voice in this area that I'm friendly with. I said, I'm sending you the games. I want you to listen to them, and I want you to tell me what you think of it. And I want advice, because I don't sit here and pretend that this isn't new for me. It is. But I'm confident that over time I'm going to figure it out and be good at it.

Yeah. You know, one of the things that I think is so important, and I learn this early on, and I don't have a vast amount of play-by-play experience, but I've done it enough over the years, is to not sweat the small mistakes. you know, and I'll give you a perfect example. Like if you call a pass play that's broken up by a defender

and you get the defender wrong on radio, you don't need to correct that. It's the guy that picks off the deflected pass and returns it for a touchdown. If you get that name wrong, you've got to correct that one. But the small stuff, considering that it's radio and you're the eyes and ears, you really, sweating the small stuff and correct, because you're going to, to make mistakes. And the thing about football, it's much harder than basketball because you have so many more names and numbers to prepare for. I mean, the one break you got, although maybe

it would have been a great entree into it, is a preseason roster. College football, and I've done several Maryland games over the years when Johnny's been out or had a conflict or whatever, I mean, you know, you've got 100 players that are on a team for a home game. college seems daunting to me too college seems really daunting it is this doesn't feel this way and partially because like

in your same way I am I know this team well I'm not worried about them exactly it's the opponent and I'm not worried about them I'm really not and the funny part was you know we've done a bunch of games here the three of us together

you know just trying to practice a little bit we've been using games from last year because we want to have as many names as possible you know that would be close and we're picking games where Haskin started you know we don't want pick Enum games. That doesn't make any sense to even do that. So we're doing it, and it's funny, like, we did the second Eagles game last year the other day, actually. And I forgot what happened in it, but it was actually an incredible second half. And I'm trying to recall all

these names. Like, this was, they went back and forth. They traded touchdowns on like four consecutive drives. Eagles scored with 20-some seconds left with Greg Bort beats Josh Norman. And then the end is one of the all-time bad beats that I completely forgot about. The fumble what the end of the game were. And this is this moment where somebody on the Eagles' defense picked up that ball and ran the other way for a touchdown, and I couldn't recall who that was. Now, granted, I'm not sitting there

with a roster in front of me, but I was sitting there going. It was Nigel Bradham. It was Nigel Bradham because I was on the wrong side of that, so I remember it specifically. That's the nightmare. In those moments, I call the wrong name, like when it's something like that. So those are the moments that I'm actually concerned about.

You know, you said something, and I think it's very instructive for people, and I'm sure you've given similar advice along the way, because you talked about craft, whether it's play-by-play or whether it's doing television as you did at ESPN, or whether it's doing long-form talk radio, which, you know, as you know, I think all of us would say that's among the hardest things to do five days a week, three to four hours a day, long-form, intimate talk radio. but it's all about the reps which get you to the point where you can be yourself and you can be comfortable. And like you said, and I wrote it down, you're not going to be nervous. And the reason you're not going to be nervous is because you've not necessarily had the play-by-play reps, but you've had the broadcasting reps. And there's a confidence that comes with that. And that's why I said before, you know, in Bram, they've got a professional broadcaster.

And so that, I hope, is one of the reasons you got the gig and they should be comfortable that it'll, you know, even if it, with three new people in a booth in a pandemic, calling games, however you guys are going to call games. And I'm going to ask about that in a moment. You're going to, you're going to figure it out. And Bram, by the way, the other thing, too, and I'll tell everybody this. Bram's always been phenomenal at, you know, figuring it out with the people he's on the air with. You know, you and I have both worked with so many different people and so many different. situations and you have to somehow make it work. And not everybody can do that.

It's a true skill and you've been able to do that. I'm always reminded, by the way, one of my favorite Bram's stories. Bram and I were working for Red Zebra when it launched. Bram was doing this Monday night thing. And Brandon Lloyd, who had just been traded to Washington, to the skins, he was going to be Bram's co-host on like a Monday night. you know, recap show of the game the day before. I'll let you take it from there because I probably won't do it justice,

but it's a story that I've told many times because I've run into similar situations with players before, and go ahead. Tell the story. So, Brandon had delusions of grandeur, which is fine. You know, it's fine. What we do for a living, Kevin, everyone thinks it's so easy. You know, and I, like, I love to tell, especially for radio, I love to tell people when they're like, I want to be on radio and go, everybody's got one great show in them. Right. And then Tuesday happens. That's Andy's, that's Andy's favorite, Andy's favorite line is everybody's got one, but what about June 9th, Wednesday on June 19th?

Yeah, or I think my new one's going to be, how about May 16th during a pandemic? Try that one out, besides. out what a shot. See you feel about that? So, yeah, so Brandon Lloyd, we signed him. You know, this is pretty typical radio, but some players, a lot of a show, you know, and so we had the Brandon Lloyd show, and I was chosen to host it with him, and we actually did it from, like, a Redskins store in the mall, I think is where we did it in Tyson's or something like that,

which is always uncomfortable. And I think we did it, like, two weeks in a row, and I, I would email him, and I'm like, what do you want to talk about, you know, outside of the team? You know, like, we have to talk about the team. Like, we can't not. But outside of that, what do you want to talk about? He's just completely non-communicative. He would just show up.

And so I'm guessing. You know what I mean? I'm guessing. I'm like, well, outside of the game and the team, I'm going to start asking him questions that either, like summary, doesn't. And not unlike most of the, you know, people who don't do this for a living, what they don't realize is that hours a lot longer if you, you know, speak in five seconds sounds like it. There's only so many questions I could ask.

Or I just start talking. I'm going to fill the time. way or the other. And so by about week three or four, you know, he was like clearly, like, I didn't even know this. He was really all that upset about it, but like I didn't think it was good, obviously. And about 10 minutes before the show, he showed up with his representative. And I think it was like a marketing person or something like that. He could literally 10 minutes before we go on the air. He has not communicated with me the entire week. What are we going to talk about on the show? which was now become commonplace.

And this person sits there with him and in front of our producer, Ira, who you know. Yeah. And proceeds to tell me that I talk too much on the show, that this isn't his show, he's not talking about anything he wants to talk about. Like, this is just, you know, this isn't what they want,

and you're just not doing it right. Okay? And I said, okay. So we get to the top of the show, the open starts, and I welcome them in, and I go, okay, I'm like,

Welcome to the Brandon Lloyd show. Brandon? Dead air. Dead air. So I let this be this extremely uncomfortable segment, you know, 10-minute segment, where I'm just like, so I just kept keying them up with like, well, what do you want to talk about? You know, like, what is it? What do you want to talk about?

And we struggled to get through it, and we got to the break. And I looked at him and his, you know, representative. And I said, was that what you were looking for? And that person that left, it realized, Brandon now hates me. You know, so, you know, like it wasn't. But, like, it was, and I tried to explain afterwards. I go, the reason why I did that was, if you wanted to have this conversation, you should have done it on two days before, not five minutes before we go on the air.

It was the wrong time to do it. I remember you telling me, too, that you said to either him or the representative look. This is radio. It's not television. have to talk. Dead air is bad. If you have dead air, that's not a good thing. So if this is going to be your show and you're going to delete it, you have to actually

speak into the microphone. You have to speak. And then like, you know, I'll just, you know, if you sit there and rant and rave and talk whatever, great. I'll sit there and listen to you and I'll chime in every once in a while. But that's not how this is going to work because I clearly need to fill the time. And if you don't tell me what you want to talk about, then I'm going to fill the time however I see fit.

I don't care if you like that or not. I'll never forget that. Listen, I love working with you. And I said this to Julie initially, too. I like collaborating with people. I'm not a diva. I'm not an attention seeker. I don't post a lot of social media.

I'm not someone who, you know, wants to be the star. Like, it's never been in me that way. And, like, I loved working with you on the pregame show. Like, when we used to do that, I knew that you really should take the lead. and I wanted to be a secondary role in that, because I knew it worked better that way. So, like, even in little cases like that were, you know, there was really no clear delineation of it. When we did the pregame show together, I knew you were the lead, and I didn't have no problem with things like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think we all, we, it would,

the pregame show that we did together for a couple of years was very co-hosty. You lead, I guess I led more, I'll tell you this, Bram, I think the one of the top five to 10 days or shows that I'll never forget is the day that we did the pregame show the Sunday after Sean Taylor passed away for that Buffalo game. I still have that. I saved that show and a couple of the shows from that particular week. I haven't listened to them in years. But that was the strangest broadcast ever and was just so sad that whole week and that day. And that day, day at that stadium was unbelievable. Let's talk about the team.

Because you're a fan of the team. Bram grew up in this area. He's a D.C. native, Washingtonian. And you love the team like I do. What do you think this team's going to be this year? Seriously, objectively. So I have high expectations for the defense, and I don't think it's unfair to ask it.

Yes, this is a new group of people with new coaches, but they're too talented not to be better than their ranking a year ago. So I expect their defense to make them competitive. The defensive line is embarrassingly strong with talent. So I am expecting them to be strong up front. I don't know about the linebackers yet, but I actually feel pretty good about some of the people that they have back there. They're a little underrated.

I actually like their secondary. I think their corners are a little better than people think out there. So I think their defense should be a top 10 unit personally. the offense is a whole other question. I don't know how they score. I don't even really, this is really weird for week one. I don't even really know who's going to be profiled. I have some pretty good guesses at that.

I know McCloris is going to be on one side of the field, and the gig is up by cutting Adrian Peterson. Antonio Gibson is going to be a lead profile back here now. Like, they're not even hiding that anymore. And I could see in camp that McKessick is someone that they really like. and think is going to be a receiving running back out of the back field specifically early. And I think Logan Thomas may be a little bit better than I think we thought initially when they brought him in, but I do look at this, and they've allowed this to be a chem lab for the year.

And I think we take the wins and we take the lumps with the offense, because I think it's going to be week to week whether it really functions very effectively. And I'm assuming that they're going to try a lot of things this year at experiment to try to find out what works. through heading into 2021. That's what I think. Are you a believer in Dwayne Haskins? So, more so than I was a year ago. You know, I frankly, like I think what Jake Rudin and they did and what they did last year was really wrong to him.

I don't think he handled it particularly well, but I also don't think it was right what was going on there. So, you know, Alex Smith got in the way of what was a, we're going to put our full support behind you, period. We don't care that there's 18 million other veteran quarterbacks that we could try to go get, and we don't think Alex Smith is going to be able to come back and play anyway, and so it's your team, prove it, it's your team. And everything he did in the offseason proved that.

But I think you're asking the question because we both know, with our eyes, having watched this, that he is going to have to be considerably better on the field than he's been in year one for them to be good. So I'm willing to grow with them because they're saying they're willing to grow with him. And I'm going to trust their opinion on that. But I do think that this year, while they'll allow for his cups, they're not expecting him to be Pat Mahomes or Lamar Jackson. If they don't see a growth trajectory, I think we start revisiting replacing him next year again. But I'm going to get behind him and hope that that's not the case.

Yeah, I mean, we haven't talked about this, you know, off the air or on the air anywhere. obviously, but I actually am very optimistic. And I think some of these games that you called that he started last year in preparation for the season, I think what we saw is progress. I think it's very hard to argue that he wasn't really good in the Philadelphia game and in the first half of the giant game, which was the last six quarters he played. The thing I love about him, Bram, is I think he's a legit competitive dude. I think that he doesn't fear anything.

I don't think that anything is. above him. I don't think he walks out there nervous, you know. And I'm optimistic about Haskins. I hope that he's got enough, you know, talent around him. I hope that the coaching staff, I hope, you know, Scott Turner's system makes sense for him. But he's going to benefit, and I agree with you, he's going to benefit from an improved defense because last year's defense was terrible during his starts for the most part. That didn't help in their effort to win games. either. But anyway, I did...

The other thing I hope I see, too. There's one other thing I hope I see. And I heard Ron Rivera compare him to. I hope I have a long run with him like with Cam Newton. There are a couple similarities. There are obviously he can't run like Newton used to run when he was healthy. But Newton would have these wayward games where he would complete 50% or below his passes. But when the fourth quarter rolled around, he was a gamer, right?

And I saw that in rewatching the games last year towards the end when he was getting his opportunities. there's this kind of clutch gamer competitive feel to him. And I think that that's something, there's something there that, like, you can't quantify that. So, like, if this dude, if this defense keeps him in the game, I do, as of from what I've seen last year, trust that when the fourth quarter rolls around, he's locked in, he's going to make plays for them. You know, after the Detroit game came in here on a Monday morning doing, you know, the typical, you know, Monday show after a game, and I said that Dwayne Haskins had a championship performance. yesterday, a winning performance.

I think it was winning performance. I don't think I said a championship performance. And of course, you know, you open up phone lines and he was 13 at 29 for like 148 yards and one interception. And I said, look at the final two drives. They needed two field goals and he made plays and he was super

urgent and super competitive. He wanted to win that game. And one of the first things that Rivera said that was positive about Haskins in the first couple of months here, he said I was watching the Detroit game from last year. That That is, that's a guy that knew what needed to happen at the end of the game and delivered. So that's the part of Dwayne that I love.

And that is innate. It's not taught. And so I think he has that. We'll see. I agree. And the other thing, too, they go back and I'll, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. But, like, listen, he beat out Joe Burrow.

People make a huge deal about that. He beat out Joe Burrow. I would look at it as, and having been out there watching him, because he's so physically composing when you see him. that in college, Burrow was going to have a hard time, like, beating him out just because of the arm ceiling, the side ceiling, all of that type of stuff that was there that was present with Askin. He's a huge dude, you know, for quarterback.

And even I've heard Urban Meyer said before that, like, Burrow, it took a while, you know, for him to kind of grow into his body. And so, you know, he ended up leaving because he had no chance physically to compete with Askin. That said, clearly Burrow mentally is a very strong guy. You saw what he did for them and have to prove that too. And maybe it was easier at Ohio State than it was, you know, that it would be in the NFL. But he has proven that, you know, someone else who wants it as bad or more, he's not going to let him beat him.

And I like that about him too. You know, there is a competitive gene about him that's not quantifiable. And so that's why I'm behind him. And I want him to succeed. And I hope he succeeds. All right. We'll take a quick break and we'll come back. I will ask Bram about Alex Smith, and I'll get a prediction from Bram on the season this year.

Bram Weinstein joining me on the podcast today. Bram's going to call his first game is the new voice of the Washington football team's radio booth on Sunday with the Angelo Hall and Julie Donaldson on the team 980, the flagship of Washington football. 1 o'clock kicks Sunday against Philadelphia. All right, I got a couple more for you, and then I'll let you run. The first one is this. What do you think the end game with Alex Smith is? That he's not on the team next year. I think if they wanted to give him a legitimate chance to compete with Dwayne Haskins, they would have.

And I'm not really sure what happened last week with him being on the 53-man roster or not being on it. Obviously, if they chose to put him on IR, he wouldn't even have had a chance to play. But I just, you know, I haven't heard Ron Rivera. say this, but just Mike gut tells me they first never thought he, no one thought it, but he'd be able to come back and do this. But two, like, they paved the road for

Dwayne Haskins to have no question, it's his team, now take charge of it, and this guy's gotten in the way of it. You know, so, um, so they've made it so that he was never really legitimately in a competition with him, which tells me that they really don't

want him to play. They want Haskins to play hell or high water. And, They want to make a decision on Haskins, and they want him to feel like he owns the franchise. And he does for now. So I think Alex Smith will, because, you know, guaranteed money and he can't trade a guy like that. Like they're going to play out the season. It's just based on his history with how he has worked with people like Pat Mahomes and Colin Kaepernick, I think he's going to be a positive voice for them.

But I don't think he's going to play, not unless there's an emergency. I don't think he's going to play. I just don't see it. I'm with you that he won't be on the roster next year. I don't, you know, it's such an inspirational story. I mean, we all, you know, have been repetitive on that. I mean, there's nothing else to say with respect to that. But after watching that documentary, I don't want to see him play.

I mean, that was. Neither do I. You know what, too? It's like, I almost want to pull him aside and go, you've proven your point. Now, why don't you go train to do an Iron Man or something, where you're not running from Fletcher Cox. Exactly. What point are you proving by running away from the Eagles defense?

Right. Two more, and I'll let you run, and I appreciate the time. How are the games going to be called during this pandemic? Are you going to be at the stadium, I'm assuming, for home games? What's the plan for road games? Right now we are planning to travel, but that could change in any minute. That's going to be an NFL protocol thing. So as of now, like initially we talked about doing it from a booth,

And I actually said, and I'm glad they agreed, I really feel like especially this first year, and I know, you know, I don't want to put anybody, you know, safety at issue here, but I feel like it's important we're there. I have called games off screen before. It is hard. You are basically a prisoner to whatever the cameras show you. And there are so many times, like, even in what we did in practice, where we were doing these mock games from last year, you know, like, I'm sitting there going,

you know, I'm waiting for the camera to show me where the line of scrimmages because I don't know exactly where that person went out of bound. So the timing is off. Or like if a flag is thrown, I didn't see it get thrown. You know, and then all of a sudden flag pops up on the Fox Chiron, and I say flag is down. And meantime, it was a mistake. You know what I mean?

So it's like you're a prisoner to these moments. And so I really made a heavy point of, I really want to go if they're going to let us. And right now they're going to let us. So we're going to do it. But who knows? The NFL tomorrow could call and say, hey, we're not doing that again. But who knows?

Well, you have some good road trips, too. I mean, Arizona and San Francisco on the schedule this year, those are good road trips. Well, do you find good road trips sitting at a hotel room for 24 hours straight? That's what it is. That's a fair point. All right. Before I let you run, I don't know. Maybe you'll back off now that you're the play-by-play voice of the team in making

predictions, but do you have a season prediction for the team? I am hoping for 500. I think... Hoping for is one thing. What do you think will happen? Are you allowed to do this? I mean, Larry would just predict 14 and 2. Larry's right, which I will not predict that. You know, I heard Julie say something the other day where she wrote, she talked to Scott Allen in Washington, she talked about the new show, which basically replaces Reds Kins Nation

on NBC Sports Washington that she's hosting. And she said something to the effect of She's like, I want to be honest with the fans And tell it like it is And I think they appreciate that So, and I, you know, you and I have both In the same way about this I love the team, I want them to win

Like, I'm rooting for them I always have, but like, I think if you If you try to paint some picture that doesn't exist, it's just so transparent And like our fan base is so educated on this sport You can't fool them You know, so I'd rather just kind of tell it like it is And I don't think it's wrong to say

I think $500 to be a good season for this team. Honestly, like, maybe Ron Rivera doesn't want to hear that, you know, but like, that's how I feel about it. If they exceed that, they exceed my expectations. So what does that matter? You know what I mean? My biggest concern is, if they don't start out well, the end of the season looks disastrous, you know,

with the trips that they have, those three in a row, including Thanksgiving at Dallas, and those road trips that look like they're playing, you know, I know you'd like to make fun of, like, who knows it's going to be a playoff. But it looks like, if you look at the end of the year, with those three straight road trips that look like right now, they're going to be in it to win it type of team.

They're in trouble. So they've got to start out well here. And I would love to see a start of two and one somehow through these first three games. And I don't think that that's not achievable with the three teams that they're playing. Kim, should we expect Bram's skin tangibles right before kickoff? No, no. You know what?

Like, you know, I love Larry. I know. I have to say this. It's in good fun. He's so awkward. He's a really good friend of mine, and it's really, this is, I never envisioned this going like this. You know what I mean? Like, I always, I, doing something like this, but when he retired, you know, and this is, this is really, this is awkward about that.

And I'm friends with it, but no, I will not be saying, I will not make up a case. Have you talked to him? Right now, I have, yeah. And is he happy for you? I think so. I didn't ask him that question. You know what I mean? Well, you didn't have to ask him.

he would have said it maybe he was very helpful actually he he gave you know i talked to him and frank herzog um and both of them gave me a lot of tips about doing the job and i really appreciated the time and the thought they put behind it in fact i'll never forget this for us in my life frank hersarzoc said what i called him he said hold on a second i need to go to my computer because i wrote down a lot of notes i specifically wanted to tell you and i don't want to forget them that's awesome and i will i'll never forget that because i was probably like you, the kid who sat in front of the, I was the turn up the radio, turned down the TV kids,

who pretended to be him. Yeah, no doubt. So, like, that was really, for me, that was the surreal, like, when you asked additionally, were you surprised? That phone call, having that phone call in my life, that was a surprise. That's really nice, too, of him.

You know, having had the chance, especially when I would do pre-game shows from the stadium or, you know, for like a Monday night or a Thursday night game from the booth, I did it a lot. I was always, you know, if I stayed for the game, I would watch from the booth. Larry was always very generous and had no problem with me standing behind, you know, him, coolly, and sunny, and watching the game from there.

And the one thing, and I've told many people this, God, Larry was a pro at play-by-play. He was prepared, you know, and had a significant challenge that most lead play-by-play voices don't have. and that is three different people that he had to work into the broadcast, Sunny, Cooley, and Doc, or before it was Sunny, Sam, and Doc. I mean, that is a challenge in a football game. And I always felt like he did it really well. He did it really, really well. And then the other part was Sunny and Sam were aging. And there were complications with that.

And nobody wants to remove legends out of those positions, but there's, it got to a point where Larry did have to, to orchestrate it correctly, he had to figure out when and where for them that would really fit for them. And so Larry did, you know, Larry had the unfortunate reality of calling a team that didn't win very much. And in fact, at times, had embarrassing season. So that's hard, too. Yeah, no doubt. We were talking about this the other day.

We're like, what happens if they're getting blown out somewhere? We're kind of talking through it. What do we do? Because, like, no one's sitting here walking. and Indus going, we're going to be playing the Chiefs in the Super Bowl. Like, no one's talking like that. So, you know, we'll figure it out as we go, I guess. Best of luck to you not only Sunday, but for the entire season.

And we will be in touch. Stay well. Thanks. Thanks, Kevin. Great catching up with Bram. Bram and I have worked together a bunch over the years. He's a pro. He'll do well. Quick word from one of our sponsors today.

Manscaped. Manscapes got you covered, guys, to keep that hair looking, and trimmed and feeling fully supported. Manscaped offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels. I know there's a time here in the last few years probably where you've nicked that very sensitive area below the bell. All right. Don't do that anymore. That can be dangerous.

Use Manscaped. Manscapes Lawnmower 3.0 is waterproof. It includes an LED light. It's made with advanced skin safe technology, which we're doing. deuses, nix and cuts on your delicate areas. And for a limited time right now, when you order from Manscaped, you're going to get two free gifts, the Shed Travel Bag and the Manscaped Anti-Chafing Boxer Briefs. I got to tell you about these things.

They're cooling boxer briefs, and they are a favorite for those that have used Manscaped. Manscape's Boxer Briefs have optimal temperature control with their crop cooling technology. It keeps your pride and joy fully supported. pair these boxer briefs with their pH balancing liquid products like the crop preserver and you're ready for anything. You need to try this out for yourself. I promise you this will take care of all of those needs, especially if you've been looking for a place to take care of all of those needs. And right now you get 20% off and free shipping if you use the code, The Athletic 20. The Athletic 20 is the code at Manscape.com.

20% off with free shipping at Manscape.com using the code, The Athletic 20. From the moose to the caboose, always use the right tools for the job. All right, a few things to finish up the day with. I was up late last night. I watched the Lakers Rockets game, and I just want to mention the following. I love Rajan Rondo. He's always been one of my favorite players. Those of you that have listened to me talk NBA hoops over the years,

you know that I think Rajan Rondo is the highest IQ player of his era. I really believe that. He has been a very mercurial kind of personality in player. Last night, it was really interesting as he came off the bench and scored 21 points and dished out nine assists for the Lakers. You got a lot of people tweeting things like playoff Rondo in full effect. I mean, there's a difference between playoff Rondo and regular season disinterested Rondo. He's a maestro, man.

He is such a great player when he's fully immersed and fully engaged. I've always loved watching him. There was a stretch in the game last night where the Lakers had a one-point lead, and Rondo scored eight straight points and then assisted on the next two buckets. It was the decisive stretch of the game. He was great. love Rondo. There are two players that I love in these playoffs, Kauai Leonard and Rajan Rondo. If Rondo continues to play the way he played last night, I do believe that the Lakers are going

to be really difficult, even for my Clippers to beat. I've wagered on the Clippers, if I haven't mentioned that already. I bet the Clippers at the beginning of the postseason plus 250 to win the NBA championship. So I do have a belief in them, and they're really an outstanding defensive team, man, Rondo with LeBron, who's high IQ, and with Anthony Davis putting up triple doubles, they're going to be tough to beat. Rondo last night was really one of those, it was one of those special performances in the postseason by an older player that you should really appreciate if you're really a basketball fan.

He is going to be a great coach one of these days. I know that he hasn't always gotten along with teammates. I understand that. but he in recent years, I think, has matured a lot. You've heard the stories in recent years, if you paid attention to it, that as an example, when the Lakers were struggling in LeBron's first year in 2018, 2019, when he was hurt, Rondo was also hurt. The younger players really looked up to Rondo.

Rondo brought him cookies before one of their road trip flights. I remember reading that story and how he had really become much more of an interested leader. I think he's going to be an outstanding coach in the future, but he's still got a lot of ball left as well. That was really fun to watch last night. Milwaukee's out, they're so poorly coached by Budenholzer. Spolstra completely outwitted Budenholzer and the Bucks. The Bucks didn't have a tent to compo last night.

He was playing, he was out with a sore ankle. They actually played better. The Bucks did without them. I'm not saying that they're a better team without him, obviously. you're not a better team without your MVP, without the league MVP, but they've got to figure it out with him because they've got to get more structured and more creative and find ways to break down a defense that's sitting there waiting for him at the top of the key. That just wasn't a good plan to beat a team that's super well coached with good players themselves in Miami.

LeBron James, by the way, passed Derek Fisher last night to become the all-time play. playoff wins leader with 162. But that was pretty interesting. Another quick story just to mention. I think maybe some of you saw this. I talked about it a little bit on radio this morning. Colin Kaepernick's been included in the EA Sports Madden 21 game. Not only is he included in it, he's got a ranking in the game,

for those of you that don't know about the game. And I haven't played it in a few years. I used to play Madden all the time with my kids. I haven't done it in three or four years, but each player gets rated based on their ability. Colin Kaepernick's ranking is better than half of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL. He hasn't played in four years. He's not only included in the game, but his ranking is higher than half the starting quarterbacks in the NFL, much higher than Dwayne Haskins' ranking.

Haskins' ranking was the 70. Kapernix is 81. Kapernick's ranking is, and rating, is equivalent to Ben Rothersbergers. Now, come on, man. Madden 21 put out a statement saying Colin Kaepernick is one of the top free agents in football and a starting caliber quarterback. The team at EA Sports, along with millions of Madden NFL fans, want to see him back in our game. We've had a long relationship with Colin through Madden NFL and worked through our past soundtrack mistakes. I don't know what that even means. Knowing that our EA sports experiences are platforms for players to create, we want to make Madden NFL a place that reflects Colin.

Colin's position and talent rates him as a starting quarterback and empowers our fans to express their hopes for the future of football. We've worked with Colin to make this possible, and we're excited to bring it to you today. Starting today in Madden NFL 21, fans can put Colin Kaepernick at the helm of any NFL team in franchise mode, as well as play with him in the play now. We look forward to seeing Colin on Madden NFL teams everywhere. Man, you talk about being woke, as they say. I don't have a problem with this at all with them, including him in the game.

I don't really understand how you could possibly rate him among the top half of the starting quarterbacks in the league. Colin Kaepernick, when he left, was barely a starter and much more of a backup. I think Colin Kaepernick, if he didn't have all of the issues surrounding him, all of the smoke and all of the public relations issues related to him kneeling for the anthem, which, as you know, I've never had a problem with it at all. He has a First Amendment right to express that. It's never been about disrespect for the anthem or disrespect for the military or disrespect for the country.

It's always been about bringing attention to African American men treated poorly by police. That's always been the issue. And I've always recognized that and recognized his right to do it. I always felt like the message would get masked by the means, which it did. and it is created a situation where he hasn't had a chance to play in the NFL as a backup, which is really what he is. He's definitely one of the best 64 quarterbacks in the game. I don't know that he's one of the best 32.

He's certainly not among the best half, top half of the league's quarterbacks. He's not in the top half of the league's quarterbacks when he hasn't played since 2016. Now, here's the big question, and you can tweet me an answer at Kevin Sheen, D.C., because I'm not really sure what the answer is. Is this good for EA Sports and Madden? Will it result in more sales? Or will it result in less sales? Will people that don't agree with Colin Kaepernick's stance?

Will also view this to be a coutowing to the woke left? Will they push back on this? I have no idea what the answer to that is. I really don't. I am sure they've penciled it out. One of the things that's absolutely sure is they've gotten attention from it just by including them in the game. And so now the awareness that Madden 21 is available and out there is greater than it would have been without this Kaepernick inclusion. But with respect to, I would be fascinated to know what the business conversation was.

Like what they penciled this out to be in terms of incremental revenue, in terms of additional revenue because Kaepernick's in the game. Or maybe there's some risk to this. I don't know what the answer is. I don't. That's it for the day. Stay well, stay safe. Back tomorrow with Tommy.