The Kevin Sheehan Show - Brees On Knees

Episode Date: June 4, 2020

Kevin and Thom today with personal stories to start. Kevin had a confusing phone call and Thom had a tweet that riled up the masses. Kevin talked about Len Bias/ESPN night before the guys got to Drew Brees, George Floyd, Amy Klobuchar and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tommy and I will get started here momentarily, but first in a world of uncertainty, one thing is for sure. Cancer doesn't stop during a global crisis. On Saturday, June 13th, the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society will host a trailblazing event. Big Virtual Climb, sponsored by Abbe, to support their investment in groundbreaking research to advance blood cancer cures and its first-in-class patient education and services, including financial support and clinical trial navigation. Step up to take cancer down by climbing 61 floors or 1,762 steps inside or outside on stairs, on the road, or your treadmill, climb your way. Join us for an opening ceremony and then take on your climb with our heart pumping playlist.

Join us on June 13th from coast to coast as we come together to climb, conquer, and cure. Register at lLS.org slash big climb. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix.

It's a sports fix Thursday, Tommy, by phone. Aaron somewhere out near where he lives, and I'm here in my studio by myself, as I have been now for about three months. Aaron has been asking Tommy about if it's okay for him to come back, and I've continued to say, no, we're good right now. miss Aaron being in studio. I really do. I miss Aaron's participation in the show, which we could actually do by conference call, but I think it, you know, it ends up sort of messing with the audio a little bit. But anyway, I think he'll be back soon. I think I'm going to be ready to go for that

soon. He'll probably have to wear a mask in here. He'll have to get his temperature taken. There's a place in here to take the temperature, which I did the other day, and I was 96.3, normal. By the way, What happened to 98.6 being normal? Don't you remember? I don't know. Who told you 96.3 is normal? The machine? And I've learned that in recent days that, you know, somewhere, in fact, I'm going to look it up right now at what a normal temperature is.

I think that's only for cold-hearted people. It could be. I could be cold-hearted. The average normal, interesting. Normal human body temperatures, a typical temperature range. in humans. 97.7 to 99.5 is considered to be normal. So I would be below normal. I don't know if this thermal scanner was correct or not, but that's where I measured in. And it said normal. And by the way, somebody came in right after me, a guy that is actually in the office now and runs this whole

office space. And he was like at 96.5. And it said normal. You know, maybe you need a rectal thermometer. I would rather not take my temperature rectally. Anyway, I have to start with the story. We got a lot to get to today. The Drew Brees situation, obviously. I want to tell you about watching this Len bias thing, which I didn't get to on Tuesday night, but I did get to last night. And you put out a tweet, I guess, last night that you have taken quite the pounding on, and we'll get into that as well. But I'm going to start with a story because, you know, we're all sort of, we're just out of sync here over the last three and a half.

half months. And over the last week, man, we're, you know, the, the country's in a tizzy right now. And justifiably so. We've talked about this. But I got a text yesterday from a friend of mine, Danny Frank. We've mentioned Danny on the show before. Danny lives up in New York. He's a good friend, big listener for many, many years, and a big help in many, many ways. And Danny knows what I'm talking about. But Danny's a great guy, and we've hung out and played golf together and I really like Danny and he texted me and he said will you call me about something and so I called them back and for 10 minutes I'm having a conversation with my friend Danny or so I thought I was 10 minutes into the conversation the other Danny that I was actually

talking to said yeah well you know we've moved to Florida recently and I said move to Florida you moved to Florida? And he said, yeah, we moved to Florida. And, you know, I've got, and he started to tell me about his kids a little bit. And I said, man, I knew you had one daughter. I think he got a second daughter. And then all of a sudden it occurred to me that I was not talking to my friend Danny Frank. But in fact, I was talking to someone else named Danny,

who was in my contact list and my phone identified as Danny Frank. And so there were a couple of other, you know, subtle clues during the first 10 minutes of the conversation that maybe I should have picked up on. You know? And finally, I just said, who am I talking to? And the guy said, Danny. And I said, Danny Frank. And he said, no. Danny, and he gave me his last name, which I won't mention because I don't want, Danny Frank, I've mentioned on the show before.

And this other Danny's a really good guy, and I'll get to that in a moment. And I said, oh, my God, you're not the Danny that I was talking. Oh, I know what really got to it. My fault. I said, so what did you need? What did you mean in the text that you wanted to ask me a question? And he said, what text? And that's when I said, wait a minute, who am I talking to?

And so to make a long story short, I had two Danny Franks in my contact list. with two different phone numbers, and I called back the wrong one. And I called back this other guy, Danny, who was someone I had talked to a year and a half ago, actually about the podcast. He's a podcast consultant, and I think he had reached out to me, if I recall, really nice guy, and I remembered the conversation. In fact, I've kept a folder of all of the different people that I've had conversations with about the podcast since we launched it.

you know, people who really have expertise. And a lot of the advice over the years, especially early on, really helped. And so I said to him, I go, I'm so sorry. I said, how do I know you? And he said, well, you and I talked about a year and a half ago when you launched the podcast. And by the way, I had mentioned that, you know, a couple of things in that first 10 minutes about the podcast. And he was like, yeah, I was listening the other day to you and Tommy. And he said, oh, he's totally on board with your feeling about people going out and the virus, you know, spreading and becoming a big problem again.

He's on your side. And so this is all part of the conversation before I realized it wasn't who I was talking to. And by the way, he sounded like my friend Danny Frank. There was not that much of a difference between their voices, which was, of course, the big, you know, the big problem there. If he had had a distinct voice that was completely different than my friends, then I would have noticed. So anyway, as he's going through, you know, who he is, I said, wait a minute. You live in Nashville, right? And he said, I used to live in Nashville.

I live in Florida now. I said, I remember you. We had like two conversations. When was the last time we talked? And he said, well, he goes, I've texted you a few times over the last. year and a half. But the last time we talked was like a year and a half ago. So I quickly look at what the text chain with this guy is. And, you know, he had texted me, hold on, I'm going to find it, but like he had texted me during a couple of Redskin games, I think. And I'd gotten back to him

all the while thinking I'm getting back to my friend Danny Frank. You know, was it Redskin games? Hold on. Let me just see. Like, uh, uh, uh, Oh, like he texted me at one point, any smell test picks for today? And I said, yeah, coming soon. And, you know, and he would ask every once in a while about the podcast and have different ideas. And, you know, and I would get back to him. But there were other texts that he would send that just didn't seem like my friend Danny Frank. And I remember thinking, why is Danny sending me this text?

What's he talking about? And I just wouldn't get back to him. This is over like a year and a half. So to make a long story short or shorter, I was really, really glad that I caught up with this Danny coincidentally, accidentally, because we ended up having a conversation for about 45 minutes about the podcast world and about all of these things that, you know, he's got some ideas and he listens to the podcast and he enjoys it.

And, you know, we're going to stay connected. and he may even be able to help out in a couple of areas down the road a little bit. But it just, he immediately said, please change me in your phone. And I had already done that to identify his proper last name. And then finally I called back my friend Danny. And I said, Danny, you and I just talked for about 45 minutes. And he's like, what are he talking about? And I told him this story.

And he was like, well, that's ridiculous. What's going on here? You know, only what is going on here. Who you're talking to. And Tommy? I swear to God, they sound exactly alike. There is not that much difference. I think at one point I was like, he sounds a little bit different today.

And by the way, the first 10 minutes of the conversation, most of it was like, you know, talking about the podcast. And, you know, I think he said, are you doing a podcast today? And I did not do a podcast yesterday. And I apologize. But I told you that there were going to be some times here, especially, you know, without sports where we would take a Wednesday off. And we took Wednesday off yesterday. I took Wednesday off yesterday. You didn't.

You're here on the day you're supposed to be here. But, yeah, that was really, really strange. That was strange. But, you know, we're talking about the podcast and a couple of things that you and I were talking about the other day. And then, you know, he said the Florida thing. And I'm like, Florida, when'd you move to Florida? And he said something about one of his kids that didn't really seem right. And then I said, well, look, you texted me.

you said you wanted to ask me about something. What do you want to ask me about? And that's when he said, what do you mean? And even he said, he's like, I got to be honest with you. It was weird that you called me. Like, I was happy that you called me. And, you know, but I didn't understand why you were calling me. And some of the things that you had said during the course of the conversation didn't really make sense.

And I said, well, did you realize at any point that I wasn't talking to the person that I thought I was talking to? And he said, yeah, a little bit, but I wasn't entirely sure. Anyway, there you go. It's just unbelievable that you would not. This is because you're basically a runaway train sometimes. I am? You know, you just plow ahead. I do.

I plow ahead. You do. And then all of a sudden you realize I'm talking to the wrong guy. Yeah. Yeah. I was, you know, if it had been you, there would, and he had answered, and if your name had been Danny, or if his name had been Tom, T. H-O-M and I had him in there as Levera. I would have immediately known that I wasn't talking to

Tom Levero. But there really was a voice similarity. Anyway, it was really good to catch up with you, Danio. And I appreciated the conversation and I definitely will be getting back to you at some point. And I've got your name in my contact list now identified accurately. Anyway, God, I'm contemplating whether or not to tell you why my friend Danny Frank called me to ask my advice on something, because it's actually sports-related, Redskins-related. And, yeah, I'll tell you. What the hell? Danny, I don't think Danny Frank, my friend's going to mind if I tell this story.

Because, hey, Danny, if you're listening, Joe's not going to hear this. He's not going to hear this. So I'm not going to tell the long version of the story, but to make a long story really short, my friend Danny Frank knows Joe Thysman. They become friends. Joe sent him a copy of his new book. By the way, I haven't gotten a copy of Joe's new book.

Have you? No, I have not. I would have thought maybe Joe would have sent. You know what? I think Joe would send me, if I called them up and said, will you send me a copy of your book signed? Of course he would. Yeah.

Yeah. So anyway, Danny got a signed book, the Joe Thysman book, and he read it. And Thysman said in the book, you know, we went to the Super Bowl after the 82 season and beat the Dolphins. And in 83, we went 14 and 2 and lost to the Raiders in the Super Bowl. In 84, we made it back to the conference championship game. And in 85, I broke my leg and my career was over. And Danny, you know, hesitates. And I said, well, I know what you're going to ask now.

Joe made a mistake in his book or the editor made a mistake. They weren't in the conference championship game in 1984. They lost a playoff game to Chicago at home following the 84 season. And Danny said to me, he said, that's why I'm calling you. You think I should get back to Joe to let him know that the mistake is in the book. And I said, no. There are only a few people that'll pick up on it. There's nothing he can do about it now anyway.

Like, no, that's not a big enough thing. Let me tell you something. As a guy who has written 11 books, a lot of mistakes. If you find a mistake in my book, the last thing I want to do is here. Exactly. See, Danny, you just got another unsolicited opinion in this particular situation.

but a much more expert opinion because Tommy is an author and has written many, many books over the years, and they're all available. They're all available. And by the way, I would say not only are they all available, but they're all affordable as well. Reasonably priced. Reasonably priced. Yeah, I mean, I think my advice was the right, right advice. Yeah, the Negro League book is very pricey, actually, because it's pretty rare.

days. The Negro League Encyclopedia, I think that's, look that up online. I think that's expensive. Is it really? Are you being serious? Yeah. No, I'm serious. What, why did you? The Negro League Encyclopedia? Oh, your version of it. The Encyclopedia of Negro Baseball by Tom Levero. $11. That's pretty expensive for one of your books. And that's for a used copy. That's for a used copy right here. I can get it for 11 bucks. Or I could just ask you for a copy.

I don't have any more of that. When did you write this book? I don't remember. 2003, 2004. I don't remember. There was a 10-year period where I wrote 11 books, and they all kind of run together. They all kind of run together. Very good.

I work during the day. I'd go down in my office at 8 o'clock at night and write until middle. midnight every night. I couldn't do that anymore, but I used to do it all the time. All right. We're going to get to the Drew Brees here thing in a moment. I promise that. Also, before we get to that, I actually want to tell you about what I watched last night, because I just want to spend a minute or two on this, and I want you to weigh in as well, because you remember this era. But first, let me tell you about Roman. If you were to guess on average how many days people in the U.S. have to wait to see a doctor? What would you say? A week

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Did you know that? Did we talk about that on Tuesday? I forget if we talked about that it was coming on. We didn't talk about it. I knew they were going to run something up on that night, but I was busy last night, so I wasn't able to see it. Well, it was two nights ago. I didn't watch it two nights ago, but I went back and watched it last night. The first hour was actually new content. It was a one-hour Reese Davis hosted special on Len Bias. Lots of guests, Jay Billis, by the way, wearing a Maryland t-shirt.

Scott was a guest. lefty called in, Brad Doherty was on, Jackie McMullen, Mike Wilbon. There was some stuff from Dick Vital in there. And it was really mostly focused on Len Bias' life as a basketball player at Maryland, and then what would have been. Not much sort of focus around the circumstances of his death. This is how great he was as a college player and what would have been. And so it was really well done.

it was so good to hear Lefty's voice, you know, and I'm so glad Lefty, I don't know what his current health is, but he sounded great in this interview. I just, you know, hearing his voice for people like me puts a smile immediately on your face. Like, you know, Leonard, you know, I just, you know, I don't know. And there's just something about Lefty that's magical for longtime Maryland basketball fans. And Gary, Gary brought us the championship. And it's so funny because I love Gary more than anybody. And Gary is one of the great people and one of the great guys, you know, you know, guys guy that you'll ever meet.

I mean, you feel the same way. Gary's really a great dude. And, you know, when I've been with him before, we're out playing golf, you know, you can tell sometimes that Gary will be like, Lefty never, you know, I know Lefty was this and he was the first and he brought it. But he never won anything. And, you know, Gary's always competitive. And so we basically have to say, Gary, if there was one game that we had to have, it's not even close. It's you. Like if there was one season, we had to have it.

had to be a contender for the ACC title and, you know, a deep run in the tournament. It's you. Like, really and truly, as much as I loved Lefty and he was part of my childhood, Gary's the greatest basketball coach in Maryland basketball history. He is. You know, he won a championship. He got to a Final Four. And yes, Lefty could have gotten to a Final Four had the rules been different and probably

would have. You know, if more than one team from the A.C. tournament could have gotten in, especially in 74. Maryland and NC State were the two best teams in the country. UCLA, you know, in the mix, too. So it would have been hard for them not to make the final four that year. But Gary is the greatest coach in Maryland basketball history. He has, you know, he's got the championship trophy.

And but anyway, that's as an aside. This show was excellent. And Jay Billis telling stories about playing against bias, about the day that he died, which was a big, you know, is like, this was for my generation, Tommy. This was one of those moments. And, you know, you hate to, like, put Len bias into the category of a great president, you know, but everybody talks about that was alive in 63. They remember where they were the day JFK died. You've told us that story before. And for me, and a lot of people my age, we'll never forget where we were the day we heard Len bias died.

You know, that was one of those moments. 9-11, one of those moments for sure. But anyway, you know, Billis talked about that, Dorety talked about that the whole thing. Great to hear Lefty. And, you know, Lefty did that. He's done it before he did it with us, you know, where he swears up and down that Len wasn't a drug addict. that this was like a one-time thing. You know, I've heard so many stories over the years, but whatever.

But just talked about what a great person he was and about, he told us this story. I remember when we did the lunch with a legend that he had to take, he was, bias is the only player he ever had to take out of practices because he was just dominating everybody and other people couldn't get any work done. He couldn't. He was so much better than everybody else in the practice that he'd have to pull him out of practice or tell Leonard, you know, you got to take it easy on these guys in practice. By the way, just real quickly, I had somebody reach out to me two weeks ago.

We were talking about bias, and I forget what the reason was. What would have been the, oh, it was the last dance during the last dance conversations. And somebody reached out to me on Twitter and said, why do you always refer to bias as Leonard bias? And I don't always refer to him as Leonard, but whenever I do, it's with lefty in mind. Because lefty referred to bias as Leonard. Leonard is a warrior. If Leonard bias ain't all world, I don't know nothing about basketball. And he would always refer to him back then as Leonard primarily.

So those of us that were, you know, Maryland students, Maryland fans, you know, it was, Lefty really was an incredible big figure, you know, in sports back then, and in college sports, especially in college basketball, area. But that's why, you know, occasionally you'll hear us say, you know, Leonard. Because if you hear somebody call them Lenny or Len, it doesn't mean that they're not familiar with them. But if you, when you hear somebody say and refer to them as Leonard Bias, you know, they were there. You know, they were on, you know, in the North Hill dining room, they were playing, you know, at the Armory pickup games in the 80s. All right? They were at all those games. You know, they were at all those

games at Coldfield House, at Coldfield House, and they were big fans of the team and of Lefty. But anyway, to make a long story short, which is the theme of the day with an attempt to do it, God, was he so good. And it's not like I need that show to remind me. The constant highlights, and when we've had this conversation in the past, I've said to you, the comparison with Jordan, which Billis made, which all of them made last night. That was like the big, what was he like in college, what was he like as a pro? Well, he wasn't Michael Jordan. That's not the comparison.

The comparison was Dominique Wilkins. I feel so confident in that being the comp for Len Bias and his game, for those of you that didn't see him. Jordan was a guard. Bias was a forward. Jordan was a much better ball handler, and by the way, a better defender. But bias was a true small forward highlight reel. Like Jordan, outrageous athlete, but bias was 6-8. Jordan was 6-6.

Bias wasn't a great ball handler. When you think of Dominique Wilkins, Dominic Wilkins was a human highlight reel, and he was a 25, you know, whatever he was as an average score. Bias would have averaged 25 to 30 a game. He would have been an all-time great at the forward position. He would have developed more to his offensive game as a ball handler and a creator. He was a phenomenal shooter. He, like Durant, you couldn't stop his jump shot because he was 6-8 with a 42-inch vertical leap

and he shot it perfectly with elbow-extended, you know, off his fingertips at the very top of the jump and the shooting motion, and you couldn't check him. No one could get up that high. And the best comparison to Jordan in terms of attributes was athleticism and competitiveness. Bias was a badass on the court. He was, he went out there and took shit for himself. Like he would not back down to anybody. He imposed his physical will on people, and he was great as a shoot or two. He would dunk through you and over you. He wasn't trying to go around you most of the time.

He was a power dunker in the same way Sean Kemp and Dominique Wilkins were. He would try to dunk it so hard he'd put a hole in the ground. The leaping ability on the lob from Keith Gatlin, it was up to the corner of the backboard. It was David Thompson-esque, except Thompson couldn't dunk. You know, the dunk was outlawed, remember, when Thompson was at NC State. And bias would flush it on big guys like Chris Washburn and Brad Doherty and Jay Billis. He would dunk it right on their head, and basically their body would be drilled into the floor on the dunk.

He dunked on David Robinson in a tournament game. He held David Robinson to two points in the final 17 minutes of a second. round game in Dayton in 1985. Every big game bias came through with the exception of one. And that one game was a sweet 16 game as junior year against Villanova in Birmingham. Villanova would go on to win the national championship that year. That's when they upset Georgetown in the final in Lexington, one of the great upsets in the history of college basketball. Maryland played Villanova on their way to the title. Maryland was higher-seeded. Remember, Villanova was a true Cinderella, even though they were out of a big league.

They were, you know, they were an eight-seed or seven-seat or whatever they were. Maryland was the favored team. They were supposed to win the game, and Bias shot four for 13 from the floor and had eight points. It was the worst game in a big game he played in his entire college career. And it sucked because they would have played actually North Carolina in the Elite Eight who Villanova beat. and that team had a chance to get to the final four. None of Bias' teams made it past the Sweet 16. They went to three Sweet 16s, I'm sorry, two Sweet 16s

and were eliminated in two second round games. As a freshman to Akeem Elye Juan and Houston on the way to that final against NC State, to Illinois in his sophomore year, another game in which Maryland was favored to win. That game was in Lexington, actually. I think. Yeah, Lexington. And then in Birmingham to Villanova and the Sweet 16 is a junior. And then his final game against UNLV, 31 points, 12 rebounds, an unbelievable final game, which turned out to be the final, you know, organized basketball game he played in his life.

They had an eight-point lead against Tarkanian and UNLV in a second round game to get to the Sweet 16 where I think Maryland would have played Auburn. And they fell apart down the stretch. and they got knocked out of a game that they were, you know, that you thought they were favored. It's funny, Tommy, God, as I'm saying that, in the tournament, in his final three seasons, two of which he was ACC player of the year, they lost three tournament games, all three games they were favored to win. And you know what, that's kind of as much as I love Lefty, that's kind of the story of Lefty. Yeah, I know. That Maryland so many times was the favorite.

they were supposed to be a final four team. They were supposed, and they always sort of came up short, and they came up short three times as a favorite in his sophomore, junior, in senior years. And anyway, really, I recommend it to everybody to watch that first hour. Then they showed the Carolina game in 86, the first win in the Dean Dome, and then they had that 30 for 30 on, which I've seen, that came out 10 years ago without bias. Yeah.

It was nice to see everybody, you know, sort of focus on what he was as a player, you know, rather than the circumstances around his death, which we've all heard that story over and over and over again. And, you know, for a whole generation, you know, like my boys have heard me talk about Len Byes forever, you know, and they've seen the highlights, but, you know, they sat, one of them hasn't watched it. the other ones watched it, and he's like, my God, he was such an athlete. You know, and when we talk about guys that would translate to today, bias was 6-8, 210, 215, with the long arms and the athleticism, he wouldn't look that much different today as a small forward. Probably not. It's a shame.

What do you remember about it? Can you imagine him? Well, look, I was on the news side of working. at the Baltimore Sun at the time. And, you know, just show you how you had to really be part of Maryland to immediately recognize the devastation of the loss. I was with a couple of my fellow reporters, and we're all from out of town who had come to work at the Baltimore Sun.

And we just were surprised at what a big purer it was, how big of a story it was. how big of a story it was. Now, we didn't see the big picture was of the impact of the decades where athletes, you know, besides Lent Bias, were lost because of overdoses and the whole impact of cocaine and drugs on everybody in that decade. There was a bigger story there, and Lenn Bias, you know, kind of symbolized. that story. But my initial reaction was, this is really an overreaction.

It really was. I mean, because you were, but you were new. You were new to the area. Yeah. Yeah, I had been here for like two or three years. Yeah. You know, I wasn't a Maryland basketball fan. And we were wrong. We were woefully wrong. It was a huge story.

I mean, there were a couple of Sunreporters that wrote books based on on that story. Fraser Smith wrote a book about bias and lefty and, you know, the impact it had at Maryland. So we didn't understand the impact, but I certainly have understood it now. And I certainly understand it's one of those moments for people in this area. They do remember where they were when they heard it. I think it goes beyond just this area.

I think that would limit it a little bit too much. I think in the sports world, and definitely the world of college basketball, it was devastation across the board because he had really become, you know, this incredible figure in the game because he was an incredible highlight reel, you know, in the sport. And this is, you know, the age as Sports Center and ESPN's become huge. This is the, by the way, Tommy, for me, the golden era of college. basketball. You know, everybody's staying or most of the guys are staying four years. You know, you've got these rivalries. You've got the ACC, the Blue Blood ACC against one of the upstart Big East, which is turning into a behemoth with Georgetown and with Syracuse and St. John's and

Villanova. And I think this is the golden era of college basketball. But for sure, this area was devastated by it. And I think you hit on something that was touched on a little bit by Jay Billis, in fact. And that is that bias became the face for the drug epidemic, the cocaine epidemic of the 80s. And, you know, it prompted lightning speed change legislation. And it was very tough legislation that was passed. You know, legislation that increased sentences for, for, you know, possession.

And you ended up with a lot of African-Americans spending a lot more time in jail for crimes that probably shouldn't have equaled the sentences that they got. But there was a fervor in the country, you know, and Nancy Reagan and Ronald Reagan, and this was bipartisan, by the way. Everybody wanted tougher drug laws. And it was really the legislation that was passed, and I forget what the, the name of the bill was, but it was either 86 or 87. It wasn't that long after he died that you had all of these new laws passed that were passed because of the death of Lenn Bias. That's what prompted that conversation and accelerated that conversation. You're right. And if you ever get around to watching the wire, it illustrates more than

anything how futile the so-called war on drugs was. What a waste of manpower. power and money. It was. And we still don't, we still are slow in treating drug abuse as a medical, as a medical problem as opposed to a criminal problem. One other quick thing, as we make the, you know, long story shorter, longer, there was a piece in there on his mother, you know, his mother and father lost not only one son, but two. Len Bias's younger brother, Jay, was killed in an incident. And his mother was just one of the strongest and most eloquent people in the face of that adversity back then that I couldn't believe as a young person how impressive she was and how impressive she continued to be because

she ended up having, you know, a life basically as a motivational, speaker, which was not surprising at all, you know, because we didn't know who Len Byes's mother was, Lenis Bias, until he died. And then you saw more and more of her. And the tragedy that that family went through during, you know, over a four or five, six year period, I forget exactly what year his brother Jay was murdered. But she was just so impressive. Always was and always has been. I went to, I was at a school in Howard County where she came to speak before the student body, and I wrote a column about it. You're right. She was very impressive.

And what was most startling was realizing the pain that she had went through. Exactly. I mean, that was eye-opening to hear her describe. I mean, you knew about it, but to hear her describe it, it demanded your attention. Well, also, you know, I didn't know Len bias. You know, I didn't know him really at all. Marilyn's a big school. And, you know, I had interactions with him at times, but I didn't know him, really.

But everybody that did know him, and I knew people that knew him, you know, sort of well, they always said he's the greatest guy, the kindest, the nicest, the smartest. And I know where he was academically at the end of his career, but that really doesn't indicate that much. But the, you know, I remember thinking in the aftermath, you know, as a young person in watching the mother and the father, you know, in understanding, especially as an adult now, I mean, he had, he had a great parent set, you know, and, and it's just, it's, it would have been, it would certainly would have been cool to see what kind of NBA player and what kind of life he would have led, you know, that would have been really neat to see.

I think he would have been a great NBA player. I just think he would have been a different player than Jordan. All of them last night are convinced that we would have seen the Celtics, you know, maintain their power, that Jordan versus bias would have become a huge rivalry, you know, in the... Well, think about play that forward, you know, for a few years later, when they've got Reggie Lewis. Yes, I know.

And he dies of a heart attack. I know. I know. I know, that was crazy, too. I mean, talk about a franchise that, you know, no one's going to hold a, you know, of basically a base sale for the Celtics. I mean, because they had tremendous success.

But the success they could have had in the 90s. Yeah. With bias and Reggie Lewis? My God. One last thing, because I just remembered something, it was a specific game, and this is really for, all out there that remember this because it was one of my favorite Len bias moments.

His senior day game was against Virginia at Cole and, you know, packed house. This is bias's final game. Bias for me is the greatest player in Maryland basketball history. Juan Dixon obviously was a champion and is the all-time leading score. And it's a debatable topic for sure. But I think bias was a better player. It's close because Dixon was a spectacular college basketball player. But in Bias' senior day game against Virginia at Cole, Virginia had a center named Olden Polynese, who was a good player.

He had an NBA career. I forget how long, but he was in the NBA for several years. And they had had a game earlier in the year, and Polonis had sort of gotten the best of bias and had sort of mouthed off a little bit. and Bias basically destroyed Pollynees in this game, and there's one moment in the game that anybody that was at Coalfield House or claims to have been at Coalfield House that day will remember this. Polonies catches the ball in the middle of the paint, goes up for a little jump hook, and Bias comes out of nowhere, and he takes it, and he screams,

get that shit out of here, and he throws it into the fifth row, and just stares Polonis down and, you know, people jump into the middle of it. And it was like the place erupted, but you could hear him yell it. And it was pure domination from that point on. And he was really, really spectacular. I mean, in those four years, to have a guy like that stay for four years, you know, in those teams, you know, he played with Adrian Branch and Ben Coleman early, and then his final year was a team that didn't have branch on it, and it was a little bit lesser of a team

around him, but Gatlin was on that team, Jeff Baxter was on that team. And you could see, by the way, it was pretty awesome last night when they showed it, and I've seen this game before, but guys like Greg Nard, who was, you know, has been a big guy at Nike, I think, for years. Tony Massenberg was on that team. Dave Dickerson, who's been a head coach and an assistant coach, you know, in college hoops forever. Lefty actually produced a pretty good coach. coaching tree, you know, when, you know, going back to his early days at Davidson where Terry Holland was an assistant of lefties before going to UVA. Anyway, watch it. And if you haven't seen the other stuff, watch that too. For me, the new content was the first hour,

and it was, it was well done. All right, let's get to, you want to get to your tweet that generated a lot of attention and feedback, or do you want to get to Drew Breeze first? Let's get to my tweet first. All right, let's get to your tweet. Because you know what? You know who you root for? You. That's right.

It's one of my favorite Tommyisms. I root for me. All right, let's go. I got lots of friends who helped me too. Tell me what happened. You called me last night and I read it, but tell everybody what the tweet was and what the response was. Well, at one point during the night, and I brought this up to you before. You know, I've brought up to you the fact that every week when there's open locker room,

and most locker rooms I've been in, players, you know, there's nobody to be found to talk. They go hide in the trainer's room. You know, that's pretty much standard. Right. I mean, because they don't really want to talk to the meeting. Yeah, you've had a problem with that over the years. Well, I pointed out before to you that there was an opportunity there. for black athletes who wanted to speak about issues like poverty and race and police brutality.

I mean, to talk to reporters, because you've got these guys walking around with microphones looking for anyone to talk to about anything. And so there's a platform and an opportunity there that they don't take advantage of. Every week, and every NFL city across the country, this happens. So I pointed out during the height of the Drew Brees thing, where are all the black NFL activists every week in locker rooms where reporters are walking around with microphones begging anyone to talk. They have a platform every week to speak to these important issues.

Instead, they hide in the trainer's room. But it's true. And I didn't mean they were the only ones to hide. in the training room. The white guys are hired in the trainers' room, too. You know, that's just what they do. So what I was saying was

black athletes have an opportunity to speak out that they don't take advantage of. I thought this was a good thing. No, no, no, no. You knew the minute you hit send on this tweet, or you

click tweet, that this would be, received that it would have been controversial at the least. Come on. Tell me why. Tell me why, though. I'll tell you why, because you are being critical of black NFL players in a very heated big stakes environment right now. This tweet is critical of black NFL players who want to be activists. But that's not allowed?

That's different. I didn't say that it wasn't allowed. I said that you had to know that this was going to be received in a way by some as inappropriate or controversial or not great timing. You had to know that. And the timing was perfect. You're talking about the issues. You're talking about having a voice, getting your message across. I can't think of a better.

I can't think of a better time to put something like this out. And I guess I still have this ray of hope for humanity that people can digest information reasonably and actually comprehend what you're trying to say. And every time I do that, my legs are always cut off at the knees. I'm always reminded of the idiocy of humanity. Every time I do something like that. Well, I mean, because nobody heard what I was saying.

I mean, one thing, most of the people have never been in an NFL locker room, and most of the people didn't address the fact that... Did anybody address it that would have been qualified to address it? Not until much later in the night. Who? Where some guy who said he covered the Eagles for, I don't know who, said, you know, And who did he talk about? He says he's spoken to Chris Long and Malcolm Denny,

who have been willing to talk about this issue many times. Yeah, the two most outspoken faces of these things, Chris Long and Malcolm Denny. In most NFL locker rooms, there's not those guys. All right. And I'm not saying if they don't want to, fine. But I'm just saying there is a platform for them, to speak out. I always thought that the

Players Coalition should have mounted some kind of organized thing where every week in a different NFL city, a member of the coalition held court in the locker room during media day and spoke to these issues. I think that's a really good idea.

Because actually because here's the thing in reading your tweet. First of all, most of those people are actually in the trainer's room for legitimate reasons. No, they're not. They're hiding. Especially in that sport.

Oh, come on. I talked to two players about your tweet this morning. They are hiding. And the second thing is, you know, if they are looking for a platform, they don't have to choose you. They don't have to feel comfortable that you're the right platform. And in many cases, they don't feel comfortable with a lot of the reporters. in the locker room.

You know, you'd have to tell me, I know that there are players that would feel comfortable with you, and I know that there are players that if you went to them and said, hey, if there are important issues that aren't football related, that you want to, you know, that you want to talk about, use me as a platform. But that's not my job. I'm just, no, I'm trying to use that.

I'm trying, I'm not suggesting that you do that. I'm saying that you have a relationship, you have a relationship where people, People would... No, this is going down the wrong path on this. I think you're misinterpreting my God. They can come to their conclusion that say, look at all these reporters walking around here. I've got a chance to get this message out to people.

I'm going to do it. And if they misinterpret it, and if they misconstrue it, or if they mess it up, we know that never happens on social media. Social media is such a great platform for comprehensive, intelligent discussion. That never happens on social media. Well, you're right about that. I would choose you if I were a player over social media. There's no doubt about it. But my point was, is that for somebody to contemplate going public with a message,

an activist type of message, they've got to feel comfortable with the reporter. There has to be some trust with the reporter. And my point was, is I think you actually, with several players, I'm sure, would have that trust. If the players came to you, I think that there's some players that would trust you. I think there are a lot of people in a locker room that the players look at very skeptic, with great skepticism. And I don't know that there would be great trust. What's the downside of the downside is you get it wrong.

The downside is it isn't exactly what they said, that they're taken out of context, that the message that they're trying to get across is written about with an opinion as a response. It doesn't make it what they want it. to be. You know, that they could take their message to some sort of, you know, large gathering event where they're the speaker and they're speaking directly to people.

I mean... How many NFL players have that opportunity? Well, they probably... This thing is so overblown. In other words, you're telling me NFL players stand right there with Donald Trump when it comes to the lame stream media. They're allies.

No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that they're skeptical of the press. What do you mean that they feel like they're allies with the press? Maybe I just misinterpreted what you said. Trump is saying you can't trust the media. Oh, I'm sorry, yes. They can't trust the media.

Oh, you don't think that there are players in sports and professional sports that don't trust the media? Of course I think there are. Okay. But one thing, it's overblown. I mean, the mistrust is overblown. But the other thing is, take the risk. Well, again, there may be a different path to getting that message out that they think they're more comfortable with.

And what is that? I just gave you a couple of examples. I'm not saying that they take advantage of it. And I know what you're saying. We agree that social media is no better. No. Social media is not. Social media is not.

look, too much of this conversation in how many characters now on Twitter? Is it 280? Tone is so important, and you cannot get tone, and it's really hard to get context in 280 characters or less. You know, one of the things, this is, by the way, in a locker room, you don't practice what you preach, by the way. This is how it works in a locker. All you do is tweet and respond to tweets and try to make your case on Twitter. This is how it works in the locker room. A reporter walked up to a player who's standing in front of his locker room with a microphone or a notebook. And then other reporters follow them because they see, oh, my gosh, there's a live player.

Somebody's talking. Right. And then pretty soon, you've got a half a dozen microphones and notebooks in front of you. What are the chances they're all going to get it wrong? Well, that's, I guess I was thinking more or less that you were offering like, hey, I can get your message out. I've been there. No, no. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying the player, the player makes the decision that he's going to speak. Yeah. And then the player speaks. Right. It's not my job to walk over to the player and to say, hey, do you want to talk about these issues? Well, to answer your question, the odds that everybody gets it wrong are slim and none. The odds that somebody gets it wrong or somebody presents it in a way which is disagreeable with the player, especially if you're talking about a lot of people writing about it, those chances are perhaps maybe higher.

And there might be some anxiety over that. Look, the other thing, too, Tommy, is that to me, that's one of those things where it's the job of the PR department to get the players comfortable that they can utilize this platform of having media in the locker room to get out an important message in some sort of activist message if they want. You know, and most PR departments actually don't want that to happen. Of course they don't. Yeah. So, no, the team does not want it to happen. Right. But, I mean, I thought there was this player's coalition throughout the NFL that came out of

the Colin Kaepernick thing. Well, look, you did a nice job of offering yours and every other reporter services to anybody that wants to take advantage of it in the future. Well, now, now, I can't fathom how they wouldn't do it now, given this atmosphere. I mean, you know, I mean, any fears, and this is really. put to me forth. You know, if they do it, they're going to wind up like Kaepernick. Well, you know, there's not a long line around the block of NFL players who make a lot of

money who have been cut because of what they say about social issues. You know, Kaepernick is the exception. Of course. It's not the rule. Right. You know? Yes. But that was the other thing that was brought up.

Oh, they'll lose their job. You know, some of these players are guaranteed money. not just talking about quarterbacks, but so many players in other positions are guaranteed money and have a lot of power as a result, and they're not getting cut no matter what they say. The other thing I would just comment on your tweet is, and maybe this is just because I know you, and if somebody read it without knowing you, maybe they wouldn't have the same interpretation. But there is some, you know, a bit of condescension in this. where are all the black NFL activists every week in locker rooms

where reporters are walking around with microphones begging anyone to talk? I can hear your voice. I can see you. Of course there's condescension. Because it's ridiculous that they don't do this. Yeah. Well, you should have offered, if you had been less condescending and offered, you know, just officially this platform, maybe it would have been received differently.

But I've done that before. You have? I've said that before on social media. You and I have talked about this. We have. There's no doubt when you told me to check out your tweet last night, what did I say to you? I said, you've talked about this in the past. Yes.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Look at all of your responses. You responded. You retweeted. Oh, I am looking at this right now. You have been consumed with this. Oh.

Some of them I don't let get away. Here's one in particular. I didn't let get away. Listen to this. This kid is a sports reporter for the Baltimore son. I don't know him from Adam. Okay? And late last night, he tweets out,

this is the same dude that sneered at me in the Orioles press box last year on opening day. We know how you rock Tom. Now, there's only one little problem with that. You weren't there. I wasn't at the Orioles opening day. You know? Who is this idiot? I'm not going to out out of me.

Was it a response or a retweet? It was his was a response to what I had written, the whole thing about what I had written, you know, my tweet. And basically, he says that. And I point out, you know, I wasn't. their opening day. So then he responds, well, the day may not be correct, but the comment still stays the same. And I understand this is a generation that doesn't really value facts and accuracy. Is it possible that at another game not opening day you could have sneered at a young reporter?

Well, I could have sneered it anyway. Yeah, it's possible. It's pop, but I was at two Orioles games last year. Well, one of them is... And only one of them I was in the press box. Oh, I know this guy. I know. Really? Yeah, I mean, and I'm trying to...

I'm trying to figure out how I know him or where I have seen him before. I bet you it's at a Maryland game. I bet you it's at a Maryland game. But I haven't heard from him. He looks very familiar. You want to talk about condescending and sneering? I'll give you a little bit, buddy. The last time I heard from him was when I tweeted out,

does Sam Davis know you're out there making up stuff about former son reporters on social media? Who's Sam Davis? He's the editor-in-chief of the Baltimore Sun, a guy who I know. I haven't heard from the kids since then. Well, he said he won't rip him for liable reasons? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You, I mean, you have no less than 30 responses and retweets to this stuff.

You just said to me, do you think social media is a great place to play out? No, it's the worst, and you engage in it all the time. But I don't let these people get away. Oh, what do you mean get away with? All you're doing is highlighting them. There are so many times on Twitter, and I don't really read my notifications much anymore. The last year, year and a half, two years, I've just, I will do it when I'm doing the show live more often than not. Sometimes I'll do it if I'm sitting on the toilet at home and just reading through it,

and I might respond to a few real quickly. but the dummies and the those that, we both know this and sorry for those of you that, you know, you're not going to know who you are anyway because you don't think it's you. I can't believe and continue to be amazed and how many times somebody will respond to something I said, or you said, or anybody said, but, you know, in the shows that I'm on, and they respond with a response that doesn't even come,

close to addressing something that I actually said. And how many times it's actually in total agreement with what I said? They just heard it differently. You know, so I don't waste my time with those people. Because, and I'm not going to suggest that they're all dummies. Sometimes you're just not listening closely. Sometimes it's an interpretation issue. Sometimes it's me.

Sometimes I didn't make it clear or you didn't make it completely clear. but I don't sit there on Twitter and go back and forth. It's impossible to get through to these people when you do that. I've watched you. But I like to shut them down. And when I do, that's a lot of fun. I think you build them up. No, there's a lot of them.

I've shut down as well. And you know what's interesting was this guy, this guy of all guys. And here's the funny part. Most of these people still follow me. by the way there's a guy who who just you know

talk to me about being rude you know I'm an old man and all this and I pointed out you know and yet you somehow you still follow me

this is the best what you retweeted just an hour ago somebody sent replied to you I don't know which I'm not going to your response was who insulted who

can't imagine why NFL players don't trust you you try to keep it up. I don't know what that was from. But anyway, somebody responded to you. I can imagine why you're an old man who works for the Fox News of newspapers, whose current front page runs the following during a race crisis. Exclusive, Antifa planned anti-government insurgency for months, law enforcement and officials say. He says, also, you're rude to other reporters. And you retweeted that and said, and yet somehow you follow. me, love you.

Isn't it worth that little moment of fun? By the way, people, wake up, all right? That headline, do some, you may want to read it in some other newspapers like the Wall Street Journal, but there was a lot of Antifa planned in this thing. And there was a lot of other extremist group planning in this thing. We're going to learn a lot about this. I don't think we still know anything for sure. but it's not like the Washington Times and Fox News are the only ones reporting this kind of thing.

Of course, you're not going to hear it on CNN or MSNBC, but you will read it in the Wall Street Journal. That's for sure. Good for you, Tommy. You keep yourself entertained. I'll tell you what really, what you probably didn't get to today was a couple of those key phone calls because you were engaged this morning here. This is a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff. I know. I know.

Like I said, I'm just not going to let them get away with it. The insult part was, again, another high school reporter, this time for the Capital Gazette, basically said, oh, what was it? Okay. Can't imagine why NFL players don't trust you. And then went on to say, plus athletes don't owe us anything. Anything an athlete shared, you should accept with gratitude. This is a reporter for the Capital Gazette, and I responded, isn't there a high school tennis score for you to take?

And somebody responded back. You asked another replyer to be smart and insightful, which I did, and not throw insults. But then this is how you reply to her. And I responded to that person saying, who insulted who? and then I used the quote Can't imagine why NFL players don't trust you. And then I told them, try to keep up.

That's one of your favorite lines. I love it, Kevin. I like slapping people around. I like crushing ignorance. Well, there's a lot of it on social media. Yes, there is. There is a lot of it. And here's the thing, Kevin.

Yeah. I've lost probably 200 followers in the past week. And I'll bet you I lost 100 of them because they thought I was too left-wing. And I bet I lost the second 100 because they thought I was too right-wing. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

There are people that think I am a right-wing extremist and there are people that think I'm some sort of lefty progressive. It cracks me up. Well, anyway, let's get to this Drew Brees thing because this really hasn't been much of a story for the last 24 hours. First of all, what we're going to do for you here is we are going to play the Drew Breeze comments. It was part of a Yahoo finance interview, and it's about a couple of minutes, and it's his response to a question.

I think it's really important that you hear the question as part of this, because the question really does focus in on Colin Kaepernick and what Kaepernick was trying to do a few years ago and you'll hear how Drew Breeze, you know, leads in a situation like this. So we'll play this for you right now. Everyone is looking back now at Kaepernick's protests for a few years ago and obviously they were always about police brutality

and now it's coming back to the four. And a lot of people expect that we will see players kneeling again even when the NFL season starts. I'm curious how you think the NFL will and should respond to that. And of course, you're such a leader in the league. What is your responsibility as a leader in times like this for the rest of your teammates and players in the league? Well, I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country. Let me just tell you what I see or what I feel when the national anthem is played and when I look at the flag of the United States.

I envision my two grandfathers who fought for this country during World War II, one in the Army and one in the Marine Corps, both risking their lives to protect our country and to try to make our country and this world a better place. So every time I stand with my hand over my heart looking at that flag and singing the national anthem, that's what I think about. And in many cases, it brings me to tears, thinking about all that has been sacrificed, not just those. in the military. But for that matter, those throughout the civil rights movements of the 60s. And everyone and all that has been endured by so many people up until this point. And is everything right with our country right now? No, it's not. We still have a long way to go. But I think what you do by standing there and showing respect to the flag with your hand over your heart is it shows unity. It shows that we are all in this together. We can all do better. And then we are all part of the

solution. So Drew Brees, after he was absolutely lit up pretty much across the board. I mean, if you're keeping score, it was 95% negative response to Drew Brees and a couple of positive responses. Joe Horn, a former teammate, came to his defense. That was basically it from what I saw. And then this morning on Instagram, Breeze actually issued an apology, which we'll get to here in a moment. And I'll read you the apology. But when you saw this last night and you heard this, what was your first reaction? Well, again, my first reaction is twofold. He wasn't saying what I think he wanted to say, and he was going to get killed for it.

And the other thing is that my contended is that, and now it may not happen. But when the kneeling during the National Anthem was a big thing. in the NFL, I had contended and written that the message that these players are trying to send gets lost. Yes. And it gets lost in the issue of patriotism. Now, you can argue, you can say, and you'd be right, that these players are not trying to insult patriotism.

Now, it's not the point of what they're doing. The point of what they're doing is basically to protest police brutality. and to support Black Lives Matter and issues like that. I understand that intention, but there are people, there are people who aren't racist who can't get past the issue of doing this during the national anthem. It's a time that for some people, it's an important issue. You can rip them for being short-sighted or not understanding what the players are trying to do,

but one of the reasons they can't understand it is because they can't get past the own personal issue of what the anthem means to then. And I'm not talking. I know, you know, people say, well, you know, there's people going up and getting beers during the anthem. Yeah, there's a lot of people that don't take it seriously. But there's something that do. If you've ever been to a police funeral and you see the family being, you know, be presented to folded flag as part of the ceremony. You know, for some of those people, every time they see the flag or they hear something like this, this means something different. And you can't say to them, well, you shouldn't be insulted.

You can't tell somebody they shouldn't be insulted, even if that's not your intention. But, you know, that's part of the, that was part. Look, this was a failure the first time around. The kneeling during the National Anthem, it was a failure. gave the president an issue. It was an abject failure. This time, I don't think... I think the stage would be different.

I don't think you're going to find the same opposition or conflict of messages. But my point was about that the Drew Briefing was... I point out this is what I said at the time, that the messages get lost by some people who don't... who see something else. I don't think that's the case anymore. I think there's no doubt what the message is now. And while you still may be offended by it, I think everybody understands it.

And I don't think Drew Brees is a racist. Do you? There are a couple of things that I've found out after the fact of doing the radio show and talking about this this morning, that he's a big Trump supporter. I didn't know that. But, which, by the way,

wouldn't, that doesn't necessarily. That doesn't make him a racist, and that doesn't change my view as to whether or not he's a racist. I don't think he's a racist at all. But I don't know him. Like, you know, that's almost an impossible question to answer. I do, however, think the fact that he is a Trump supporter made it much easier for a lot of his teammates to absolutely eviscerate him on social media last night and this morning, because maybe there was sort of already feelings about his politics in that locker room. But let me just say a couple of things.

First of all, Drew Brees not knowing why Colin Kaepernick was kneeling, which is essentially he ignored the reason why he was kneeling and essentially acted as if he didn't know the reason Colin Kaepernick was kneeling is ignorance at the highest level or just complete disingenuousness. He was lying. First of all, he took a kneel, took a knee in one of those games and one of those solidarity games during those things. He was in the middle of this thing. You know, I actually, and I said this to a friend of mine after the show called me, the radio show this morning, I said, you know, there are a bunch of reveals in here, but one of the biggest reveals is he's not as smart as I thought he was from afar.

It was a stupid thing to say. It was a stupid thing. It was a stupid comment. I mean, because... And whatever he was trying to say, and I don't even know what he was trying to say, but it got lost when he opened up by talking about disrespecting the flag. Yeah, I mean, decent people not only know what Kapp was protesting, but they are for what he was protesting.

And to you, to your response, you and I had the same response at the time. I mean, we were doing the show together, I think, at the time. And we had the exact same response. And I beat this into the ground and took a pounding for many of you. And you really, you know, this is one of those things, too. I mean, you got to listen to what I'm saying. And even after this morning, some of you that I read briefly on the toilet on Twitter, just completely missed the point.

I never, never had a problem with Colin Kaepernick protesting or believing in what he believed in in choosing to protest. I knew exactly what he was doing for. I knew it wasn't a patriotic. I knew it had nothing to do with the flag. I knew it had nothing to do with military or his feeling about the military or veterans. I knew exactly what he was doing. I was paying attention. And by the way, Drew Brees was too.

but he chose two things that made it problematic for him, and I pointed it out at the time. He chose, first of all, to stage his protest while he was at work, okay? This is a private business, and as I mentioned many years ago during this thing, and you and I've talked about this, you know, your right to free speech isn't right, doesn't mean that you are free of consequence. and you chose to do this at work. Yes, in a very public setting because of these games

and the millions of people that are watching them, but more importantly, you chose to risk the message being clearly communicated by the method you chose. It was predictably

very easy to predict the controversy surrounding the method. The result, by the way, was a, exactly what you thought it was, Tommy, and what I thought it would be, which is there were too many people that weren't then going to want to listen to what the message was because they immediately thought you were being unpatriotic. Even though you weren't, there were too many people that

were never going to get past that. And the result was that Colin Kaepernick raised his personal profile more than he raised the profile of the message. Now, some people said, well, what would you have recommended. Well, a lot of different things. There are a lot of ways he could have protested that message that would have made it more about the message. He could have been, you know, he could have done what a lot of activists have done, you know, get large gatherings of like-minded players together and hold press conferences and do things outside the scope of their job, outside the scope of bringing in something that's going to mask the message. There were other ways where the message would have been completely without any sort of influence clearly communicated.

But that's not what he did. And I was never, and nor were you, I never thought that he was anti-antham or anti-veteran. Never. I mean, I think anybody that really thought that just wasn't open-minded enough or wasn't listening. But I did know, definitely, that once you knelt. And the perception was you disrespected the flag in the anthem that some people weren't going to be able to get through that. They weren't. And by the way, we were both right.

We were both 100% right. Although Drew Breeze shouldn't have been one of the people that didn't know what Colin Kaepernick was kneeling for. He should have been one of the people that absolutely knew what he was kneeling for because he actually did kneel. in one of those games. I bet you he didn't have an idea what he was kneeling for when Grease did it. I don't. He just did it. I don't, well, then he's, then that's a problem, Tommy.

And that makes all of the criticism of him even more justified because it means he didn't care to hear what the reasons were. You know, he was self-absorbed to the point where he had his beliefs. He was just going to go along with it to get to the game, and he didn't care about the issue of police brutality towards African Americans. And that's wrong. You know, if you were going to take the knee with everybody, then it should have been an honest knee in that moment. But beyond that, beyond that, for him to act like he didn't know what Colin Kaepernick was protesting when he took that knee is, it's bullshit. And ignorance is no defense in that situation.

and he wasn't ignorant because he knew it. And then you have to say, well, then why did he give the answer that he gave? I can't explain it. I think he is definitely pro-flag, pro-antham. And by the way, he's got every right to be that. I am too. But it doesn't mean that I'm not open-minded to understand, hey, Colin Kaepernick has a First Amendment right to express his free speech.

And any way he wants to do it, doesn't mean he's free of consequence as he found out. too. But I just think it was such a dumb response in so, you know, lacking in, and the fact that he responded that way in this environment almost meant like he wasn't even tuned into what was going on, you know, right now. And the reasons it's going on right now. Anyway, he did apologize. So let's read the apology and give our thoughts on this. It's long. It was Instagrammed. And I'm looking for it. I had it here a moment ago. Here it is. This was him on Instagram early this morning. And you knew he had to apologize.

Tommy, I predicted last night when I started to see the response. And by the way, we haven't gone through the response. The response was overwhelmingly negative from his own teammates. Malcolm Jenkins posted a four-minute video that just eviscerated Drew Brass. He was crying during this, you know, and he, Malcolm Jenkins was.

And the criticism was overwhelming. Anyway, and most of you have read all the criticism at this point. His response to this was on Instagram, and it went like this. I would like to apologize to my friends, teammates, the city of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community, and anyone I heard with my comments yesterday. And speaking with some view, it breaks my heart to know the pain I have caused.

In an attempt to talk about respect, unity, and solidarity centered around the American flag and the national anthem, I made comments that were insensitive and completely missed the mark on the issues we are facing right now as a country. They lacked awareness and any type of compassion or empathy. Instead, those words have become divisive and hurtful and have misled people into believing that somehow I am an enemy. This could not be further from the truth, and it is not an accurate reflection of my heart or my character. This is where I stand, colon, and he lists where he stands right now. I stand with the black community in the fight against systemic racial injustice and police brutality and support the creation of real policy change that will make a difference.

I condemn the years of oppression that have taken place throughout our black communities and still exist today. I acknowledge that we as Americans, including myself, have not done enough to fight for the equality or to truly understand the struggles and the plight of the black community. I recognize that I am part of the solution and can be a leader for the black community in this movement. I will never know what it's like to be a black man or raise black children in America, but I will work every day to put myself in those shoes and fight for what is right. I have always been an ally, never an enemy. I am sick about the way my comments were perceived yesterday, but I will take full responsibility and accountability.

I recognize that I should do less talking and more listening, and when the black community is talking about their pain, we all need to listen. For that, I am very sorry, and I ask your forgiveness. Now, what has been the response to his apology? Have you seen some of this? I've seen some of it. My impression is it's been positive. Here are some of the responses, and there are some that are positive and some that are not. Burger McFarland, ESPN.

I'm sorry for the way that America is crucifying me. I'm not sorry for what I said. Got it. Joe Hayden, cornerback in the NFL. Drew Brees, backpedaling better than Dionne Sanders, shaking my head. It was never about the flag or the military, but we all know that. Tim Jennings. We still got questions, Drew. Let's go live with it. Like you went live when you said it. Other NFL players, Will Davis. Drew Bree's apology, ain't it. He's going to have to say all this on camera to believe him. He backpedaling better than some of the best DBs to ever play the game. Yeah, there's a lot of criticism saying that it's not enough.

My reaction to his apology, I'll go first. My reaction to his apology is, first of all, he had to do it. Secondly, I don't know how this is going to work out in his locker room. I actually think that there was, I thought last night there was a chance he might have to retire. I think the part where he says the following hit the mark, and I'll explain why. when he says, I stand with the black community in the fight against systemic racial injustice and police brutality and support the creation of real policy change that will make a difference. And then he says, I condemn the years of oppression that have taken place throughout our black communities and still exist today.

I think one of the mistakes that a lot of people have made here, and when I say mistakes, I'm talking about in interpreting what they've been watching over the last week and a half. that this is all about George Floyd, this is all about police brutality towards African Americans. It's about so much more than that. It is about the inequalities in America for minorities and for black people in particular. This is, you know, Tommy, a lot of this came together, right? Pandemic, you know, unemployment, people, you know, quarantined. And then you get another one of these, which we see.

see two to three of these every year, you know, minimum. And there's always a response. Most people who have their eyes open have been aware of this issue for a long time. And most decent people are not for police brutality against, you know, African Americans. Nobody wants to see this. All right, Tommy, real quickly, just want to mention that if you are listening to us on iTunes, Apple, podcasts, 3, 2, 1. All right, quick mention before we get to... to something else related to the George Floyd murder,

that if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, rate us and review us. It really helps if you haven't done that. If you've already done that, thank you very much. Also, a reminder that you can read Tommy in the Washington Times, and you can listen to me on the Team 980 in D.C. If you're outside the market, the Team 980.com or the Team 980 app, if you're in D.C. on radio on the team 980 from 6 to 9 a.m. every morning.

Yesterday, by the way, Keith Ellison, the attorney general who's going to prosecute the case in Minnesota, upgraded the charge from third degree to second degree, and then charged the other officers with aiding and abetting a second degree murder. Did you see who broke the news, Tommy? No, I didn't. Amy Klobuchar. Amy Klobuchar broke the news that the Minnesota Attorney General had upped the charge from third degree to second degree on Chauvan and was going to charge the other three officers. When's the last time you saw a sitting senator or representative be the newsbreaker?

Somebody who wants to be vice president. Okay, that's one answer. but, you know, the effect of that fades pretty quickly. I had another theory when I saw it. My theory was she's floating this out there to see what the reaction's going to be before they go with something official. Because one of the things they could have done is they could have, in the moment, upped it to first degree premeditated, because even if they don't get the guy on first degree at trial,

the jury could come back and say, but we do have enough for second degree, or we do have enough for manslaughter. I thought it was really odd that a sitting senator from Minnesota, who by the way, Amy Klobuchar is a big name, she was a candidate for the Democratic nomination, she has been talked about as a potential VP running mate for Biden, although I think what's happened in her state and her track record of not convicting cops when she was a prosecuting attorney may doom her on that front. I think you're right. But I don't think I've ever seen that before. I could be completely wrong. That may be. Kevin, I'm not sure that a jury can just... Yes, they can in Minnesota.

They can't. Yeah, I was listening to it yesterday. There is a woman on CNN. Laura Coates is her name. She's the legal expert. She's actually very bright and very good. And it was either her, I think it was her. It could have been somebody else.

I was flipping around. But they said in the state of Minnesota, if you don't get them on the designated charge, it doesn't mean you lose them. The jury could come back and say, there wasn't enough there for second degree, but there is enough there for third-degree manslaughter, as an example. Because that isn't the case in all of yours.

That's right. But they made that a point yesterday. So anyway, I was thinking maybe she, because it was another two hours before this guy, Keith Ellison took the podium for the official announcement. And by the way, when it was announced, when Klobuchar broke the news and it was being reported by every network, the reaction pretty much was more favorable than unfavorable.

You know, even from the family attorney, he said, we think there's enough there for premeditation, but we've talked to Keith Ellison, the attorney general, and we're comfortable that, you know, he could up that charge again if they've got enough evidence on that. but I was thinking maybe she's floating it out there to see what the reaction was. Maybe this is a situation of Dan Snyder and the Giants coach Jim Fossel, a Jim Fossil situation. Let's see what our fans think if Jim Fossil's the coach. Oh, they don't like that.

No, we were never interested in Fossil. Meantime, Fossil was told to start putting together his coaching staff. I know, I know. Now, you know, there's another avenue that involving police that has come up. You know, it's only been since 1982 where you can't sue police, you can't sue government officials or civil rights issues. I mean, years ago, there was not a law against it, but the Supreme Court ruled in 82. I forget what they call it, some kind of basically qualified immunity act

that basically protects people from being sued, government officials and police officers from being sued on civil rights charges. And there are legislators that want to get rid of that. But they can be convicted federally for a civil rights offense. Isn't that one of the reasons that the FBI? but you're saying that the family can't sue them, that they can't, they can't get something in civil court? No. No, they're protected. You know, and that's interesting. If you want to

repeal that, this would be the time to repeal it. I would think there'd be some momentum for that, and that might be a huge deterrent for police officers moving forward. One last thing on this. I saw a lot of signs in my neighborhood being put up on telephone poles and trees and different things. And, you know, one of the signs was, you know, Black Lives Matter. And if you want to donate, here's the way you donate. And then the second sign that was being put up around the neighborhood, and I'm sure others have you have seen some of these as well, maybe,

was essentially the following. And that is, if you are as disturbed by the looting as you are by George Floyd's death, you are part of the problem. and you know I've seen a lot of that I've seen and read a lot of that and watched a lot of that and I don't know why someone would think that like what you can't be emotionally invested in more than one thing you can't be emotionally invested in this murder being awful listen Kevin Andrew Sullivan wrote a story I think for New York magazine about this and it says basically we're all on college campuses now.

This is the way college campuses operate. There's only one way of thinking, and anything else that would actually be a different alternative way of thinking about it is criminal. But I'm not even talking about an alternative way of thinking about the George Floyd murder. But basically what they're, no, they're saying that, I mean, if you have a problem with with the looting, then that problem's on you. Well, that's ridiculous. Well, of course it is.

But the point that I want to make is that why would somebody think that you can't be emotionally connected, invested, outraged by more than one thing at the same time? Like, I mean, this last... Because there's no room for alternative thought. You know what that is an example of? That's an example of a closed mind and lacking intolerant thought, because it's essentially saying you're only tolerant if you agree with what I say in the way I think. Pinko, yeah.

Welcome to this generation that's dictating terms now. That's what that was what Sullivan meant about college campuses. Look, there's a debate going on right now among reporters for the New York Times about the article that they printed, the column that's printed. Yeah, what was that column? I saw that trending. I never had a chance to get to it. Well, Tom Cotton, Senator from where, Louisiana, I think. Arkansas, right? Arkansas. Okay. wrote a column that was pretty inflammatory about the use of military force on American citizens.

It was very inflammatory. And black reporters at the time were up in arms about it. And, you know, some of them are boycotting their own paper as a result. And, you know, look, old school journalism would tell you, that's what the op-ed page is for. It's called opinion. Yes. And you put different opinions on that page. Right.

So they're against him having his own opinion. Yes. And look, I think its opinion is horrific. I think, I mean, he's, I have to read it. He's an appurant human being to me, and I think his opinion is horrific. But that's the point of the off-ed page. It's just, I just, this speaks to the nose. of, you know, one thought, no other thoughts allowed.

Yeah, and what's really, what's really striking to me is those that, you know, subscribe to the theory of you can't be upset about the unrest. You can't be upset about the mayhem being caused. And by the way, the last few nights have been much better. I think, certainly in our city, I think they have been. but, you know, that's absurd. That's a natural reaction to, first of all, have empathy for people and for businesses that have been damaged and destroyed. It is only natural, you know, to have that primal sort of feeling of protecting yourself and your family and your property.

People can multitask. People can be outraged by George Floyd, invested in trouble. trying to make change and be a part of that change and also say, you know, I don't want people burning down the stores or the pharmacy that I, that my mother goes to. And violence breeds violence. And you said something to me the other day. And, you know, and I told you, like, you know, some people believe it's, it's good to make people that aren't invested uncomfortable. Well, most of these people are invested. Most of the people agree with the, on the, issues. Most of the people absolutely want these officers to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Everybody wants police reform. Nobody wants racial profiling. Nobody wants,

you know, police brutality. But back to my other point, violence is going to be met with violence in this kind of thing. You know, you don't get fooled by one weak mayor in Minneapolis who told a precinct to abandon their facility when a bunch of demonstrators came in with torches. You know, people won't stand for it. I'm not talking about white people. I'm talking about everybody. Black people aren't going to stand for it. White people aren't.

No one's going to stand for unrest. And, you know, they feel both outrage over George Floyd and simultaneous disgust over, you know, what's been happening, you know, restaurants and local stores and pharmacies being destroyed. people can feel emotionally invested in more than one thing. And to tell people what they can't is a bit over the line. I know it is, but the bottom line is the focus should be is right now is stricter police reform. I mean, and I don't disagree with that. Part of the reaction is here is you have a president who is in favor of the opposite.

Here's the problem, Tommy. Our political process makes it near impossible for a true, pragmatist, centrist, moderate to win, someone who solves a problem and governs more on common sense versus party line. Those people can't win general elections because our system is more often than not designed for the far reaches of one of two parties to win primaries and to win party nominations. Moderates can't be honest and win their parties' nomination. That's what really frustrates me as someone who I think, you know, is moderate in most of my beliefs. You can't... Oh, Kevin.

I mean, that happened on the Republican side. It's slowly happening on a Democratic side. But you have, of that field of candidates, you have the most moderate running for president on a Democrat. You do, but you didn't have a really strong moderate that had a chance. They were dissuaded. Bernie Sanders had to be snuffed out by the party at the end because they didn't think he could win the general election. I know.

So I just, I'd love to see us get back to where a true pragmatic could, you know, a true moderate could be elected president. I just feel like we're in this era of the only way to win the nomination is to go to the extremes, and both of the extremes to me are uncomfortable. All right. Well, we just did, what kind of show did we just do? I'm never sure. I'm never sure. But guess what? You're going to hear it. Enjoy the day. And we will be back together on Tuesday.

I will be here tomorrow with a guest, a surprise guest. I'm not sure who it's going to be. I have two choices. I put out two feelers. And hopefully one of them will come through. There you go. Have a great day. Thank you.