The Kevin Sheehan Show - Bruce Allen Speaks; Dianna Russini on Skins' Draft Board

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

Kevin opens with Bruce Allen's comments yesterday on ESPN's "First Take". ESPN's Dianna Russini was a guest on the show and talked in detail about the Skins drafting Dwayne Haskins. Ben Standig/NBCSports Washington had the best NFL "Mock Draft" in the country....he called in. Kevin talked Nats, NBA Playoffs, and the updated MNF booth too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation. And tell them we told you to call. ESPN's Diana Rusini will be with us in a few minutes. And then our good friend Ben Standing from NBC Sports, Washington, will join us. he had the most accurate mock draft in the country, in the entire country. He's going to join us after we talked to Diana Rusini. So yesterday there was a conversation that we had here on the show that I had, I guess, you know, with myself and Aaron that actually got a ton of feedback, both positive and negative. Some people in reference to our conversation about jersey numbers,

and specifically Joe Thysman's jersey number seven, said this is so boring. Why are you wasting so much time with it? And I have to be very honest, and I said this sort of at the end of the conversation, that I am not that much moved by it anymore either. I think there was a time, you know, that I would have been more protective. You know, the net of it is,

is I just think the organization should take this decision out of the hands of the player who wore the number and has been protected for all of these years, Joe Thysman, and just make the decision. And really, somebody put it very much more succinctly than I did yesterday, just retire the numbers or don't. And if they're not retired, then somebody can wear them. And if they are retired, they can't. And, you know, that's probably the right way to do it. And then we'll get into the debate over which numbers, which have been protected over the years. years should actually be retired or not retired. But I tend to agree with that. But the feedback was either I don't give a shit or it was very protective of Joe. And, you know, I'll read you this from Bobby in L.A. who, you know, has been a long-time listener, radio show, podcast, etc. And he wrote,

could you imagine if Haskins wears number seven and turns out to be a complete failure? That cannot happen and must not happen. Exclamation point. I think Haskin should pick a new number and if he wants to seek greatness, he should carve out greatness in a new number that can be retired for him one day. Because if he also becomes really great, then there's going to be two number sevens that were really good. And that's just confusing,

wrote Bobby with a lot of exclamation points. A lot of people agreed that it's an awkward situation that Joe's been put in, But guess what? Today, Joe appeared on the Grant and Danny show in WJFK 106.7 and revealed that he has talked to Dwayne Haskins, and he learned from Haskins that Haskins indeed would like to wear number seven. And Thysman, after his conversation, and he told Grant and Danny this today.

He is given Haskins permission to wear number seven. So I guess that's it. unless the Redskins step in and say, Joe, that's not your decision, but I think it would have been in their best interest to have done that before, or now it's really going to become a story. So I said this yesterday. I don't know why it is that I feel this way, because I don't think I, you know, five, ten years ago would have felt as unmoved by this subject as I do now.

And I know, and I admit, I've spent far too much time talking about it, including here today and perhaps even yesterday, but there are a lot of people that care about this. Don't get confused on that either. More people, more Redskin fans really feel strongly one way or the other about this than don't. But I'm not moved emotionally. And I said yesterday, if Haskins trots out onto the field and the, you know, the first preseason game when we see him actually playing a game and he's wearing number seven, I'm not going to, you know, Joe is for the most part the first. I mean, I barely remember Sonny playing. I do remember him at the very end of his career, playing in a playoff game against the Rams in 1974

and playing in 1972 before he got injured. And Sonny was always very, very revered from the people close in my life. My father loved Sonny. My uncle loved Sonny. These are the two people that I went to games with every single Sunday. growing up and they loved sunny. Everybody loves sunny. I think that, you know, seeing a number, another number nine out there, I think I might feel differently. It's not that Thysman wasn't great because he was, he's not sunny in the annals of NFL quarterbacking history, but he was the

quarterback for the first Super Bowl. And Joe Thysman was a very good NFL quarterback and had a couple of stellar seasons, including a player of the year MVP season in 1983. Anyway, bottom line is, I don't care that much. I just wish the organization would take the players off the hook and make the decision themselves. So there's that. Real quickly, before I get to Bruce Allen's comments from yesterday, the Wizards apparently had Danny Ferry in and interviewed him yesterday to be the new GM, Rosas out of Houston and Connolly out of Denver or the other possibilities. Danny Ferry, I don't think I'd have a problem with him being a GM. To be honest with you, when I've thought about this here previously, I have a default on this. And my default is that Ted and Zach, his son,

are going to go with the hippest, most analytically inclined guy they can find. And more likely than not, that would be Rosas out of Houston, who's worked for Daryl Morey. And I think that that is ultimately the way they will go. I have no information on this. But I think they really believe themselves to be, you know, on the forefront, as they always have, with, you know, the companies that they've been a part of as employees, like Ted was at AOL, and companies that they have owned over the years. but I don't know how much Danny Ferry sold them on a 100% pure analytics approach.

Maybe he did, I don't know. But there was that news from yesterday. Then there were the games last night. Quick thoughts on both games. Number one is that Tenacompo actually, that first half, he looked so nervous and tight. I really thought in that moment and watching him play in the first half already down a game and Boston had the lead in the first half. I think their lead was somewhere approaching halftime between three and five points. They ended up being down by a little bit at halftime.

I thought Milwaukee was done. I liked Boston before this series. I don't know if I said it on the podcast or not, but I did like Boston in this series. And I like Toronto overall to win the east, even though they are tied up at a game apiece with Philadelphia. But my God, did things change? First of all, Middleton started hitting shots from everywhere. He was 7 for 10 from behind the arc, and it seemed to loosen the Greek freak up, and he played really well in the second half.

But he looked like a mental mess in the first half. The game last night, Draymond Green afterwards said about the game. He said the talk leading up to the game about the officiating, the ref chatter after game one was embarrassing to the league and embarrassing to the teams and players. There was very little arguing last night. There were two key injuries in the first half. Steph Curry dislocated his finger, came back, and was fine. James Hardin took a finger to the eye from Draymond Green and was not fine, even though he went for, I think,

29 in the game or somewhere around there. He was struggling with the eye. You could see it. Now, it doesn't really affect him one way or the other defensively. But you know that, you know, you want the best from James Harden offensively. He had a good game. He ultimately only played 34 minutes because he sat so much in the first half. Golden State wins the game 115 to 109. I don't think that this series will go back to Houston after this weekend. We've got to wait until Tuesday, by the way, for Saturday, I'm sorry, for game three from Tuesday night. So a long wait between games. two and three. I think Golden State will somehow win one of the games in Houston come back and close it out in five. That's my guess on that. Neither game was dramatic necessarily. There was a spot where

Houston cut it to three late at 92-89, I think, or maybe 93-90. Scott Foster, all the discussion about him, the guy that the Rockets hate, and he reportedly can't stand the Rockets. He was, the Rockets were 0 and 6 with him refereeing games in their last 6. Now they're 0 for 7, but the officiating, I don't think, had anything to do with it. The Nats lost again last night, Aaron. I was flipping back and forth between that and the NBA game. They had a 2-0 lead, and they blew that, and they actually got decent relief pitching last night, but couldn't generate enough offense, and they lose the second of this four-game set with St. Louis, three to two. And the Nats are sitting there, you know, 12 and 16 overall, some three and a half or four games behind the Phillies,

who, by the way, Bryce Harper last night was booed at home. Didn't take long for that, did it? No, and then he had just an awful, awful game, struck out a few times and caught a ball that, I mean, it was just a lazy fly ball, and he tripped and he basically fell on his face. Well, we said that, you know, he's in a sports town that is going to be, forgiving. And he's going to deal. He wanted a sports town. He got one and he's going to have to deal with these stretches where, you know, I think he's like three for his last 20 or something or 25 or something like that. And he's going to have to deal with the criticism that comes with it. Because Philadelphia fans and Philadelphia media, sports media, they are unforgiving and relentless. It is the opposite of what you have here. And we'll see how he deals with it. I don't, you know, he had a game. either last week or the week before, because I do check in every night to read his box score. I'm interested to see how he's doing.

And he had a game last week or the week before against Colorado on the road. And I know it was a, it was, it was Colorado on the road. But he was like five for six with, you know, a couple of RBIs. And he had a couple of good games back to back, in fact. But now he's hitting, what's he hitting on the year? I looked at this the other day. He's below 250 now. It's around 240.

Here it is. He's hitting 240. Yeah. He started off quickly. He's now hitting 240 and we saw last year, you know, the batting average and some big time slumps. Meantime Philadelphia is still in first place, but it's bunched up. Like the Nats aren't playing well and they're losing games, but no one's running away with the East. You know, you've got the Phillies, the Mets and the Braves all bunched up there.

And the Nats are a game and a half, two games behind the Braves who are in third, right? Something like that. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to mention real quickly because it was news that broke this morning before we get to the Bruce comments is that the Monday night booth for 2019 is set. With Witten going back to football, Bougar McFarlane's going to move from on field into the booth with Joe Tessator. Lisa Salters, sideline reporter, they didn't add anybody to the booth. They're going with the two-man booth. I think they'd have been better off last year moving Bougar into the booth anyway because he was the best of the bunch.

by a lot. I'm just not a big test ator fan. And so there you go. That's it. When's the last time that the Monday Night Football Booth had was just two people? Like that was always the staple. Michaels and Deirdorf? Yeah, I mean, that was one of the big staples was that the Monday Night Football Booth was the three-man booth, even though I liked the two-man booth better. But it's interesting to see that they're just going with the two-man booth.

I think Michaels and Deirdorf were a two-man team. I'm wondering if anybody since then I'm looking it up here to see I mean over the years I it doesn't have it by year on Wikipedia unless you found it I've just got a list of all of the different analysts and different play by play guys

but I think Michaels and Deirdorf were a two-man team there for a while I think that's right I could be wrong about that All right, let's get to what Bruce Allen said yesterday. Bruce Allen was on with Stephen A and Max Kellerman on first take. And I don't know the woman's name on that show. But I saw that she was a part of the discussion. I guess she is the moderator.

I don't know her name. I'm sorry, I don't watch a show a lot. But Stephen A and Max Kellerman first take ESPN had Bruce Allen on. And per usual, Bruce gives much more access to people outside of this market than people in it. and it's always interesting because when he does it, he has no idea who he's going on with because he went on with Max Kellerman, who may be right now on television,

the biggest name change advocate, won't even use the Redskins name when talking about them, refers to him as the Washington Football Club. I doubt Bruce even knew that, and maybe he wouldn't have cared had he known it. But here's what he said, really the most important stuff that he said was about Dwayne. As far as Dwayne, you know, we have the great system and a great environment to develop a quarterback.

Our offensive coordinator, our quarterback coach, our senior assistant, all played quarterback in the NFL, our head coach was a quarterback. And of course, we have Doug Williams in the building. And we think we have the perfect environment to nurture a young player. And don't forget, the guy, the secret ingredient may be for Patrick Mohan, Holmes was Alex Smith. So we're pleased to have Alex and this group to help mentor a quarterback. Okay. So three things to unpack there. A great system to develop a quarterback. And then he lists all of the former quarterbacks that are in the building. I actually don't feel uncomfortable with

Jay Gruden and Matt Kavanaugh and Kevin O'Connell and Doug Williams being in the building dealing with the quarterback. I think Jay typically designs an offense that's quarterback friendly. The problem is that last year he didn't. Last year he didn't call plays that best suited Alex Smith. He didn't figure out the Alex Smith situation last year. And Dwayne Haskins, you know, in terms of, you know, we heard Andy Benoit, who was, you know, on with us last week, say that Josh Rosen was the perfect quarterback for Jay Gruden's system more than any other quarterback in this draft. But, you know, on the general point of, they don't have a great system for developing a quarterback. That's an exaggeration. We know that. But is it a dysfunctional system for developing a quarterback? No, not at

all. It isn't. You know, Jay Gruden does that well. You know, I think Case Keenum is probably a good fit with Jay. I'm not a big Case Keenum guy, but I bet he'll get the most out of case. I bet he was looking forward to getting the most out of case in many ways, perhaps more than he was looking forward to the relationship with Alex Smith, which wasn't necessarily a perfect fit. Of course, Bruce didn't consider that last year when he made the trade, but it really wasn't working. Maybe it was on the verge of working, but it really wasn't working. But we'll see whether or not it's a good fit for Jay as far as Haskins goes. The perfect environment to nurture a young player is really a lack of, you know, it's an exaggeration and it's borderline disingenuous,

because he's got an owner in the building that has historically buddied up next to the star quarterback, the star young quarterback, and it's been very, very destructive for them. And we know that as far as RG3 is concerned. So if Bruce feels maybe this time he can keep Dan and Dan away from his, young quarterback rather than entitling him and making him feel superior to everyone else in the organization. If Dan can do that, hooray for Dan. He's grown a little bit. But I'd be concerned about that because we know what happened the last time they took a quarterback in the first round. It's not, and it hasn't been, the perfect environment to nurture a young quarterback. I'm not suggesting,

again, make the distinction here. I do think Jay's good with quarterbacks. I'm sure Kevin O'Connell and Matt Kavanaugh and Doug, and Doug as a true mentor, are good for a young quarterback. The owner has not been good for a young quarterback and has not created an environment in the past that was good to nurture a young quarterback. And then finally, the Mahomes-A-Simmeth comparison is really not, you know, in apples to apples comparison. First of all, Mahomes sat and watched Alex Smith play for a year and had the benefit of watching Alex Smith in the best year of his career, in his aberration year, really, which was 2017. And I feel like perhaps many of you do that it's not an exaggeration to say that Alex Smith

is a good mentor. He probably is. He's a great guy, and he probably really helped Mahomes. But let's remember, Alex Smith wasn't thrilled that they traded up for Pat. for Mahomes. He wanted to play, and it inspired him in some ways to have the best year of his career. And after the best year of his career, what did they do with him? They traded him. And they traded him because they knew what Mahomes had. In some ways, Aaron feel like if Mahomes had come in in the middle of 2017, he still would have been awesome without the rest of the mentoring from Alex Smith. And I also wonder how much Alex Smith. will really be involved. Is he going to be in the building? I've heard recently that he's planning

on moving back out west, but we'll see. It can't hurt certainly to have Alex Smith in the building mentoring, especially given that Alex isn't going to be playing and he'll have more time to sort of mentor Dwayne Haskins. But I bet Jay wants him to help him with Case Keenham too, or maybe he doesn't. actually the more that I think about it he's probably like don't worry you know talk to talk to dway i'll handle case and we'll get it going the way we wanted it to go last year and it didn't uh anyway uh quick word about window nation uh window nation right now uh want you to check your spring checklist uh is your hose working is your lawnmower working what about your windows go around your house see if you've got any that are hard to get open if you've got one that's

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All right, let's bring in Diana Rusini from ESPN, and everybody remembers Diana, not only from ESPN, but when she was in this market working at Channel 4. It's been a while. How are you? I'm great. I think this last NFL season and free agency and draft, I feel like it's been one of the most exciting years that I can really think of. Although I do always go back to the RG3 year, but I think we all do that. Yeah, there were a lot of stories in those years. But you were really busy last week.

And by the way, I'll say up front, I think you did a really good job. I know you hear a lot both good and bad from Redskins fans, as we all do, but I'm pretty confident that you got all of it right last week. But before we get to all of the reporting last week on the Redskins, I'm curious, what is last week like for you? And what do they say to you? What does ESPN say to you when they assign you to D.C.? Because you've got contacts all over the league, too.

I know a lot in Washington. But what was the goal last week for you in the coverage here? Well, I got a text message from my direct boss about a month and a half ago that said, how do you feel about Washington? And I knew exactly what he was getting at. And that meant he was assigning draft day. And I remember just taking a second to think about it before I responded to him of, do I really want to go back to Washington?

Because I will say in my mind, at that point, I wasn't. sure they were going to go quarterback. You can argue they need one if perhaps they didn't think Case Keenan would be the future, but I kind of thought, this isn't going to be a very exciting team to cover for the draft. But I love and cherish my time in Washington. I figured, you know what, let me just go back there and just go hang out with the old media crew that I used to spend days with, and maybe something will come of it. and who knew it would become the story of the draft.

And I'm so glad that we wound up doing it, but I know my boss, I spoke to him later about it. I said, why did you pick Washington? He said, I actually just approached it as I looked at every team that I thought needed a quarterback and could possibly go there, and that's where I put reporters. And so that's where I wound up with Washington. You know, it's so funny is that when we, going up to the draft,

so much of the content on the draft always centers around the quarterbacks. doesn't matter whether it's a local story or a national story. And you know, you hear back from people that said, hey, enough about the quarterbacks. What about the guards and tackles? Well, nobody really cares about the guards and tackles. And I think they put, you know, reporters, including you in all of the cities that had a chance or were thought to be in the market for a quarterback. Let's get to last week. And let's start, obviously, with what a lot of your reporting was on, which was the Dwayne Haskins. pick. Diana, who wanted Haskins in the organization and who didn't? Well, let's back it up before we

talk about where we were last week with it. I was on the Dwayne Haskins beat, so to speak, because I covered the New York Giants as well, and that was, I thought was going to be the story of the draft was going to be, will they take a quarterback with their first pick? So I had heard through the grapevine, and then also just their sources, that they did not want Dwayne Haskins. And this was gold. And they weren't switching on it. He had a pro day. I know that the New York Times were impressed with him.

They thought he performed very well, but nothing really changed. So then I caught wind that the Redskins were really interested in Dwayne Haskins. And I didn't understand it. I saw some of his stuff. I talked to other coaches about what they saw in his performance, and I was trying to understand why Jay Gruden would want Dwayne Haskins. So I come to find out about the connection with Dan Snyder, son and Haskins and his interest in him.

So let's fast forward now to last week, and I start reaching out to the people that have become sources of mine within the organization for years and years. And I just asked very casually, do you think if you go quarterback, it's going to be Dwayne Haskins? And it was, no, we're going Dwayne Haskins. And it's like, wait, what? So the way ESPN, our process of reporting, especially something with that magnitude, we usually

go two to three sources. on it. So I shared with Adam Schaefter, who's the best at it, and he said, yeah, I've been kind of hearing that, but you seem like you have it locked. I said, yeah, well, I only have like one and a half right now. The half wasn't all in on it. And he's like, and Shepter pushed me. He said, go back and work on it. And I did. And I was able to get a lot more. And in the end, it was discovered that there was a divide within the organization. And you had the scouts, you had the coaches, coaches on the offensive side of the ball who were comfortable not drafting a quarterback, who wanted to go defense, who if they, I mean, I'm sure if the offensive coaches could really pick,

it would be a wide receiver or a tight end, but they understood as a whole the team needed to improve at the pass rush. And Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen did not want that. They wanted Dwayne Haskins and they weren't budging. So when you say, and, you know, I read through all of the tweets, and we were talking to people too, and I think, I mean, you were all over it last week in terms of this being a high-level front office owner team president. This is who we want. And, you know, Diana, going back to the end of the season,

I have felt for a few months that this was going to be a different offseason in that, you know, if you were in that stadium for the Philadelphia finale, where it was taken over by Philadelphia fans and even looked at this season in its entirety where the stadium for a game against Houston where the skins were six and three, the stadium was a third empty for a game that was a legitimate big game.

I mean, the television ratings plummeted, even when they were winning. There's been a lot of erosion of the fan base here, and it was my feeling that Dan wasn't going to put up with it anymore, that the off-seasons of Paul Richardson's and Pernell McPhase in Orlando, Scandrix just wasn't going to suffice. So I was expecting, and I, you know, they did go after, you know, Antonio Brown. They didn't get Antonio Brown, but there was a lot of interest there.

That would have been a big splash. They signed Landon Collins, but the quarterback was always for Dan, I felt like this was going to be a big deal. And you, I think you were all over it in that, you know, he really inserted himself into the process. When you mentioned the scouts and the coaches, especially the offensive coaches, wanted to go with a defensive player that they were okay. Was it more about sticking to the board and drafting the best player available, or did they also have reservations about the player? It was, they wanted to go with the work that they put into it for the year. And I think that's where the frustration was coming from when talking to different people on the football side of it. The attitude

was essentially why are we here if you're not going to trust and listen to what we think is great for the team and what is best for the team. And I do believe that with the move of them being able to move up and get Montez-Wed, wound up becoming a little bit of the allo to the burn for this team because they were so frustrated in the warm room. And I spoke to people right after the pick. some of the people that shared with me their thoughts about what they were doing before the draft I was able to talk to them a little bit after and they even leading up to it by the way we did a

preview show an hour before the draft and you know I reached out to all my people like hey what's the feeling there and nobody knew what Dan and Bruce were going to do at that point and I trust those people like they would have just said hey I can't tell you or you know it seems like we're going to probably stick with the board and go defense now or, you know, we had a last minute campaign for this. It was, we don't know, this is Dan and Bruce. And I just think that that's very telling. I think what Dan Snyder decided to do in the end with just go with who he wanted was also a message set back to his own organization of, I'm the owner, this is my team, I'm picking who I think should be on this roster. And while I'm sure he respects their opinions,

I think the message was heard loud and clear from the people inside. One of your tweets, and I talked about this the other day, you tweeted out, as for Dan Snyder getting his way with the quarterback pick, my belief is this was a very bold reminder to anyone who leaked out information that he's the owner of the team and this is in capital letters his team you will not beat him and you just referred to some of that but the part and tell me if I read this the wrong way but you know you had a lot of reporting there was a lot of reporting about what the redskins were thinking and what was going on and Dan Snyder was taking over the first round etc etc did that just piss him off and make him say this is my goddamn pick and I'm picking the guy I want I don't

care what the board looks like. Well, I can tell he wasn't happy. I know that for a fact. He was not happy with me. He was not happy with the reports. He was not happy with the information that was out there. And I get that. I don't blame him. He wanted to keep all that information about who they liked, why they liked who in their organization. It's interesting. I was just talking to Jeff Darlington, another NFL reporter about that night. And he said, if you go back and listen to all the reports, most of our reporters were projecting or possibly leaning towards a pick. You're the only one saying this is what they're doing.

He's like, that's not normal and it's not good. It's not good information. It doesn't help anybody. So to me, Kevin, I think this is layered. I think there's more going on in the building than we know about. I don't think everything is kumbaya, and I'm not sure if changes will be made before the season starts, but I do know the one thing that this staff that is currently there, the pressure is high, and they need to win and they know it.

Well, you just threw something out there, and it's, you know, that you don't know that changes will be made before the season starts. I actually think that I would put that at a massive long shot. We're referring to the coaching staff here. Let's, I mean, let's be clear on that. And the frustration that the coaching staff felt over the Haskins pick at 15. But I do think, and I'll ask you, do you believe that Jay understands that this year upcoming, he better win or that's it?

I think he understands. You know, even just talking the night of the draft at the podium, I mean, he looked tired at it. You know, a lot of people were reading into his body language. He didn't look happy. You know, he wasn't enthusiastic. My read from Gruden over the last few weeks has just been, and even just from communicating with him at times,

he just wants to run his offense. And he'll deal with whatever quarterback he's presented with because he just believes that he, well, he knows he needs to win. That staff, I know for a fact, that goes back to the combine when I was talking to them. And they don't have this feeling of we're dead men walking. They kind of have, look, this is the league, this is the way it works. Every, you know, everyone has pressure on them. But I do think that the staff thought they could win with case. So the fact that they have another tool, you know, in their box,

in a rookie who does have talent, I believe that Gruden can actually do something with him. And that's going to, you know, obviously going to be another topic of conversation of how's this going to work at camp. You know, who is Case coming in as a starter? Is this a true competition? Is this going to be one of the situations that we saw with Kirk and Robert where, eh, we kind of knew that Kirk was playing better at camp.

It was obvious he was the better quarterback. All the receivers were telling us, yet, you know, they stuck with RG3. I'm curious to see if this is going to be a true competition and see if Snyder allows this offensive coaching staff to really pick who the best QB is. Yeah, I think that that, and I've referred to it, that the drama to come is if it's clear that Haskins isn't ready, does this result in a major confrontation between Dan and the coaching staff as to who plays? I mean, we know what the all-in for week one turned out to be in 2013. By the way, for a moment, if Jay and the coaches and the scouts, we're like, okay, we have our direction, we have to take a quarterback, but at least we get to choose who that quarterback is at 15.

Do you think they would have chosen Haskins? Do you think Haskins, other than Murray, who is long gone, do you think Haskins would have been the number one quarterback? on their board at that point? No. I could tell you for a fact that that was not the case. I think if they wanted to go quarterback, or if they wanted to go quarterback, they were going to go with Daniel Jones.

If the Redskins football side of this could win. They knew they were never winning this, though. This wasn't something, you know, where I know we're talking about how Dave Gedderman right now is saying, oh, he knew of two other teams that were in for Daniel Jones. Yeah, they were. were interested in Daniel Jones, that was never going to happen. They were never going to beat Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen on a quarterback as much as they were trying to campaign that he's the guy.

You know, and I had also heard that Bruce Allen wasn't even high on Kyler Murray. So that was another interesting element, too, if he wound up dropping with the Redskins moved up to get Kyle Murray, the answer to that is no. So if Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins had both been sitting there at 15, the Giants passed on a quarterback, Denver, Miami, Cincinnati, they all pass on quarterbacks, and Murray is the only quarterback on the board. We know that it was going to be Haskins. Dan would have picked Haskins at 15, but do you think there would have been a last-minute

push to try to convince him that no, if you're telling us we've got to go quarterback here, Daniel Jones is the guy to go with at 15. Do you think that they would have tried one, or did they try to convince him? All right, you're set on quarterback. Let us try to explain to you why we think Jones is better than Haskins and is higher rated on our board. Kevin, they seem defeated.

Anybody on the football side seemed exhausted, that this was not going to move. And I know the day of, there was conversations about Daniel Jones again. I don't know how much of a hardcore argument they were making and throwing things in the war room. I don't believe it was like that. But I know that there was a little bit of tension because there were some that really wanted Bruce to take a serious look at Daniel Jones as a consideration. But, you know, when I got – when I arrived into the D.C. area on Tuesday, it was pretty much told to me when I met with all these sources and talked to them over the phone,

that we're going to Wayne Haskins and there's nothing we can do about it. Was there, okay, so Jones goes to the Giants at 6. I'm assuming since Haskins was, they were dead set, the owner was dead set on Haskins, were they ever at any point close to trading up? I was told no. I was told that that was never on the board that they were going to sit and let the draft come to them. And, you know, there's still so many scenarios that I would love to have seen, that we could be discussing now

of all right, well, if, as you've said before, if Daniel Jones was on the board, you know, would somebody have yelled and screamed? You know, I don't know, but I think it worked out. And here's what I can tell you, and this is where Redskins fans should be psyched about, because I know everyone

is obsessing over the fact that Daniel who did pick that first selection, or he made that topic. But the overall vibe since this draft, from everyone I've talked to on the front office side down, people are thrilled in this building because everybody got a little bit of what they wanted.

Everyone got to get some part of their position filled, whether it was with Bryce Love, West Moran, whether Montez Sweat, you know, Kelvin Harmon. All the spots were filled for what they felt was needed. So in the end, as much as the drama is interesting. and look, it's typical Washington, it's great for a football side of it because I do think that that there is a team cohesion here where they feel like they have a good roster. Well, there's definitely, from what I've been told, a lot of self-congratulating going on, which is not unusual for Dan and Bruce, but it's funny, Diana, because you know,

you've painted the picture of a draft room as we're going through the first 14 picks of Jay and Kyle and the football people just rooting and praying that Haskins gets picked, right? You know, by Miami or by Denver or by Cincinnati, and there, Dan and Bruce, rooting for him to keep falling to 15. And by the way, it's not unusual for football people and personnel people and ownership to disagree on picks. I'm not trying to make it out to be like this was a totally unique situation. But, you know, the picture that you've painted is it's an interesting room.

night leading up to 15. And then, of course, there's huge celebration when Atlanta goes, you know, Atlanta wouldn't get to take a quarterback anyway, but when Miami decides not to go quarterback, they know they're going to, or Dan knows he's going to get his guy. I, so Jay and Bruce have been, you know, they've been close over the years. Where is their relationship right now after the last couple of weeks? Do you know? I don't know specifically where it's at, but I think that the way this draft went can tell you a lot. I think the prior years, especially when I was on the Redskins B, they were in sync. I never heard from either of them that they weren't in line.

They had small disagreements on football details on sidebar coaching stuff, not on players and positions. I don't recall it when I was there. So the fact that they're split on this and there was no give, and not only did they go quarterback, but they didn't even go with a quarterback that the football guys wanted, look, I don't want to say that that means divorce or it's a hurt relationship. But here's something that I have learned about Jay Gruden over the years.

He has a really easygoing personality. Go along to get along. He has this way of he doesn't hold a grudge. He doesn't take anything too personally. His feelings don't get hurt. He's not sensitive. And this is just from having conversations with other coaches about him of, you know, what do you think about Jake Yurton?

Because I've done that before because sometimes the best way to understand a team you're covering is to hear from what others think about them. And, you know, he's really liked, really liked in the league. respected in terms of what he can do on offense, or at least how he can, specifically what he can do for a quarterback. And I think that has helped Jay over the years, and I think it helps with a Bruce Allen type of personality, who likes the power, who wants to make the decisions, who thinks he has a very good understanding of what's great for this organization and to have somebody willing to sort of go with the flow. And then now, with the pressure on, now Jay decides this

where he's going to say, no, we're not in agreement. I think that's interesting. I think that's very telling of where they're at. I couldn't agree more. The one thing about Jay, he's so likable, he's so go along to get along, not confrontational with management. And I think he loves, you know, he's a really good offensive mind, and that's what he wants to do. He wants to coach football. But, you know, I think also he'd like to not feel, you know, and I'm sure part of it, too, Diana, was, I don't want to have to deal with the quarterback drama. Keenham's good enough. Colts good enough if he's healthy. We need to build up other areas of the team, and that gives us our best chance in 2019. I think there was some

of that, too, don't you? And fans should be pretty thrilled that Gruden and his staff had enough confidence that they can make Keenum good. I think that was another takeaway for me of man, what quarterback coach and a head coach and an offensive coordinator or all these guys on offense, what organization doesn't want to go quarterback? Those are usually the guys that want the offensive player. So the fact that they thought that they could win with Case Keenom, that should be encouraging to fans to hear, but also the fact that now they have this great young rookie,

and we'll see if they can get him ready in time. I know that's going to be another concern of, you know, can he really start out of the game? We don't know. You know, and the challenge is on. All right. Two to three quick ones, and I'll let you go. I appreciate the time so much. You mentioned from the beginning, and I just want to make sure that I am clear on this.

Coaches and scouts, did that include Kyle Smith, who everybody's given a lot of credit to for setting the draft board? Kyle, I just wanted to confirm that you don't think that Kyle wanted a quarterback there at 15 either, and that Daniel Jones was his guy more than Haskins as well. I don't specifically know where Kyle was, but just from taking the temperature, I never heard Kyle was in the Brewster Dan camp. I feel like that would have, he would have, he's a big enough name in a gigantic part of this process that if that's who he wanted, then this really is a non-story because that's his job. That's right.

So that tells you that he wasn't in that case. I think that's a good deduction. Does he start? Does Haskins start the opener or not? No. I think they're going to allow Jay to develop case, get case comfortable with his offense. And I think Case's experience is just going to come in handy here. And Dwayne Haskins is just going to have to sit back and learn

and we'll see how far Kays can take them. Will Dan be okay with that? I think so. I think because Dan got his guy, I think he's going to get antsy. I think he's going to get impatient, but I think he'll allow Gruden to do this. I truly believe that. I think the burn of Robert Griffin is still there, and I think he may be able to sit back a little bit and go, all right, let's try to see if this can work here

and get this young quarterback ready and not force him to be. be ready. All right. Last one, and I appreciate it again, there is, and you mentioned this, there is some positive vibe right now. Universal congratulations for the draft. And we know that Jay is go along, get along, and he'll lead that as far as the staff goes. Do you think right now it's smooth sailing until the opener until they start to play real games, or are there landmines to dance around between now and opening day? I think once this story goes away, I think it's smooth sound. I think they have this ability because of their personalities,

as you just mentioned, to just move on from it. I think we obsess over this stuff more than they do. And the way I know that is because I always follow up of, hey, I'm sure you saw my story or I'm sure you're seeing the headlines. And I can tell you, I can speak for the football side of it. They don't pay attention to any of this. They do not care what is being said about them. They don't watch ESPN.

They don't watch the NFL network. I know the front office does. I know the football guys just, I mean, just because I bring stuff up all the time, they have no idea what I'm talking about. So I think that's good. I think that's a good thing because let them focus and worry about football. These are all just distractions that creep into an organization, and they certainly don't need it. Thanks.

It's really good to catch up. Great job last week. I'll talk to you soon, Diana. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. Thanks for talking with me. Thanks to, Dynne. Diana. She was great. That was a good conversation with Diane. I think we actually learned a couple of things that maybe we didn't know, but that Daniel Jones, for the football people, he was the highest rated quarterback on their board. Look, you can choose to believe what you want to believe. I always, when I read this stuff, I think about it, and then I talk to people that I know that may know to try to either confirm it or to try to learn the accuracy of it. And I am being too.

totally honest with you when I tell you that everything she tweeted last week was matching up with everything that I was hearing. I think she was right about everything. Now, Jay's go along, get along personality, he's going to try to make this thing work. And if Haskins isn't ready, I think he'll be very up front and say, hey guys, Bruce, Dan, he's not ready. You know, we'll hurt him if we start him early. Let's give him time. And maybe they won't listen. Maybe they'll push it. Diana doesn't think that they will. They think they're happy that they got their guy, the guy for the future. They can sell, you know, Haskins, in my view, even if he doesn't play in week one. But, you know, with Case Keenham and Colt McCoy there, and I've said this the last few days, it's not

inconceivable that a rookie quarterback could beat those guys out. I do think, and for the most part, Diana sort of confirmed this, and I believe this to be true, Jay is, you know, bullish on Keenham. I think he was a part of that decision, unlike the decision last year to trade for Alex Smith. I think he sees things in Case Keenum that he is comfortable in working with, which is why more than maybe anything else, not just the player involved, but he was okay in going into 2019 with Case Keenum and Colt McCoy. But anyway, thanks to Diana for spending some time with us. Quick word about Centbird. Guys, Mother's Day is coming up, and Centbird gives you an opportunity to get into a subscription-based service for perfumes, perhaps, for your significant other or your mom or somebody important in your life.

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Again, that's scentbird, S-C-E-N-T-Bird.com slash KS-D-C for you to try your first cologne or perfume for just $7.50. Sign on. Smell amazing. All right, let's bring in our good friend Ben Standing, who has to try. of course, works for NBC Sports Washington. And I have to tell you that I'm sitting here yesterday, or maybe Aaron had called me the night before to say, hey, we should have been on the show. And I said, we just had him on the show last week.

And he said, yeah, but he had the best mock draft of anybody. And my assumption was, that's great. But anybody in town, what I didn't realize is you had the best mock draft of anybody in the country, in the entire United States, as lefty Brazil would say. Congratulations, man. I had no idea there was even a group or a site that tracked all of this. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yes, you have to be a certain level of nerddom to be aware of these things.

But, yes, I did win the contest. I won it a few years back. And, you know, as I said in the post article, goes to show what happens when you give up a social life. You know what? I really am. I'm so happy for you. And I, in reading through this,

I want to get a couple of things clear before we get to the actual results. So there's a website called The Huddle Report, which tracks a lot of these NFL mock drafts. They've been apparently doing it for, 17 years, and they award one point for correctly picking a player who was selected in the first round, and two points for correctly matching said player to the correct team. And as you mentioned, this is the second time that you've won. Does the Huddell report track, like, I mean, Kuiper, McShay, all of the people at ESPN NFL Network, it's anybody that does a mock draft,

they're in this contest? No. So here's the deal with this one. So the Huddler report's been around a long time, and for most of it, I believe, you have to submit your entry to it, which is not abnormal for how a lot of these things work. And the thing is that a lot of the, I think the national guys say with ESPN in particular, they punt it a couple of years ago. Like Kuiper used to be in this for sure. I don't remember what McShea was. And a couple years ago, they bailed. I suspect they bailed in part because he didn't want to.

They weren't winning? I guess because I know there's a fantasy football version of this on a different site. And Matthew Barry also used to be on it. And he also no longer is on it. So I don't know if it was the ESPN corporate things. In any event, like Mike, like, but you have to submit. But like Mike Mayock submitted historically before he took the Raiders job. But I think he was like, my big joke going into this year was that I was ranked fifth over the last five.

and the Raiders GM was ranked ninth. So that was my line to girls. But like, you know, Daniel Karamay is in it and Evan Silva. So people do submit it. But yeah, there's other ones out there who will go out on their own and come up with their own methodology and track

everybody. But this is, this is you have to submit. You have to want to, you want to be bold and do it. And there you. How do the young pretty ladies react to you telling them that you've won the mock draft contest twice? And you're the only two time winner. Yeah, I haven't used the twice part yet. I will say that it has not worked as well as you

might think. Historically. Yeah, it's not a, it's not a, it's a what? No, I'm just kidding. That's the hell Mary. If I really have to strike it out, I'm like, I might as well just go for some notoriety here. I'll see if they give a crap. But yeah, well, we'll see. Maybe I'll take the two-time champ, one out for a spin. Do you know that if anybody tracks mock schedules? I don't. Clearly, your Hall of Fame were there, so I don't think anybody else really wants to. I mean, the results aren't very good, but it was certainly a pioneering move. All right, so in your final mock draft, you got 27 of the 32 first round selections, correct,

and you had 11 exact matches, so that was a total of 49 points, which were more than 100 other mock drafters that the Huddle report, this group that tracks it tracked. But included in that list are guys like Daniel Jeremiah who's a big deal at NFL Network and Lance Zeerline at NFL.com and Evan Silva at Rotow World and you beat them all for the second time. Let's go through like the pick that you're most proud of that you got right and the one that was most frustrating that you got wrong. Sure. Well, the most proud, I guess it's a sort of a a two-fold thing.

There's the homework. I mean, I legitimately, I don't study 18 million hours of tape away these other guys do, but I do read everything I can. I, you know, as I've, when I won the contest several years ago, I was an absolute nobody, so I had no sources. Now I have at least a few. So I do check with some people, and based on one of those sources led to one, one call, that was the Chris Lindstrom picked to the Falcons,

because I had been told that Lindstrom had visited the Redskins, which was my initial sort of interest in this. But then from that, I heard that he had a private workout like the next day or two with the Falcons. And when I started looking at my board, it just sort of like I couldn't figure out what I was going to do with Atlanta at a certain point. And the Lindstrom thing seemed to be interesting.

And it just fell over time that that made a lot of the, sense. I shoved him in there. I don't think almost anybody had Lindstrom going there and sure enough, that one hit. The other one is, as I mentioned in the post article, part of what it's, what works for me is to some sort of honed instincts from over the years, I guess, of doing this. And I look back, I put Jerry Tilleri, the Notre Dame defensive tackle to the Chargers at whatever pick they had 28th back in January, like January 15th. And in the next 15th, ever changed at one time. And at the very end, I was looking at it going, because he was starting to slide out of

most mock drafts in the first round, and I was like, the hell of it. I'm all in. I've kept it this long, so I left it in there, and that worked. The one other thing I'll just say, when I came on your podcast, the day before the draft, you asked me, who do I think the right thing is going to pick, and on tape, you'll have me saying Brian Burns. Yes. And over the next few hours, not because of the day of tonight or taking control of the draft

for him and stuff. But as I kept looking at my board, I just couldn't figure out where is Dwayne Haskins going. I didn't think he was going to go to Denver. Same with Drew Lack. I didn't think the Denver. I didn't think the Bengals. I had to put them somewhere. And then I just became all right, if he's really there at 15, if I really now have to

accept that he might be there at 15, do I actually think the Ranskins' organization will pass? Not what Jake Gruden wants, the organization. I was like, I can't think they're going to pass. So from like sort of a contest perspective, like I felt better by Dwayne Haskins being there that you say burns or sweat

or anybody and so I went that way I mean this is just a stupid podcast your official pick was the one you released on NBC Sports Washington and I'm looking at it right here and you had you had Haskins at 15 so which is the Tilly thing is amazing I mean the fact that you had this

going way back to the first mock you did Jerry Tilleri to the Chargers at 28 is pretty good what were the ones that you missed that you're frustrated with after the fact. Well, obviously nobody had Cleveland

Ferell of the Raiders at 4, but that actually wasn't a bad thing because nobody had him and it was such a random move. I got him in the first round, but it was such a random move. It didn't really mess with me too much. I guess if I had to be frustrated about any one thing, probably at the very

last second, it became a deal where I had like 35, 36 players I wanted to put in the first round and, you know, you can't obviously do that, but, And at the very last second, I put in Josh Jacobs to the Raiders, which was a good thing. But I took out one of the cornerbacks. And the one I took out was DeAndre Baker, who actually was the one picked in the first round, not Murphy, not Greedy Williams. So I was a little bummed with that. But, you know, I can nitpick myself to death.

But like I said, you know, in putting Haskins to the Redskins, it also meant Burns to the Panthers and things like that. So, you know, enough things worked out. I can't, I can't quite like too much, but probably the Baker one just because, you know, I wanted to get as many as I could possibly get in the first round. You know what is interesting, and you will know the answer to this more than I will, is all of the discussion about D.K. Metcalf and the incredible Indycom bind that he had and the numbers, and, you know, he was for a long stretch there, a guy that everybody mocked in the first round, if not the top half of the first round.

In fact, when we did our mock draft here and then invited, I don't know, seven or eight of you on to make the pick, a couple of people picked Metcalf at 15, right, Aaron? A couple of the guys picked Metcalf at 15. In your mock draft, you did not have Metcalf going in the first round. I haven't addressed this on the podcast, but I remember thinking on Thursday night, and even on Friday night, boy, did he really drop? You know, and it's funny because Cooley was on here, and a lot of us felt the same way that he was more of a workout warrior than a true football player or a natural wide receiver, and it looks like the league spoke to that.

Absolutely. And, you know, the thing I always point to is, look, there are guys, like you mentioned, Daniel Jeremiah, Kuiper, and they're clearly talking to people around the league, which from a mock draft perspective is both helpful and can be hindering. I mean, I definitely had people tell me some stuff that I just like, I don't know if I believe that, but okay, whatever. And you take it under advisement.

But, like, you know, those guys are also studying the tape. And, you know, McShay and Kuyper had met Capp at various points, you know, among their top 20 prospects. So there, from their perspective, he looked like a, you know, real deal. But, you know, even within that combine, you know, some of the agility drills, he was just horrendous at. He looked, you know, incredibly stiff. And then talking to some people, you know, around the league,

I remember, you know, one former GM told me he, he liked AJ, Brown, the other receiver would be way better than Metcalf. If you look at Metcalf's numbers, yes, he missed some games with injuries, but he had far less production than A.J. Brown, and you had to ask, well, why? Why is that? Part of the thought was that the quarterback probably trusted A.J. Brown more than Metcalf. And yeah, so I think if you just got caught up in the, if you heard, if you saw the Combine and then largely checked out, you didn't realize that Metcalf was sliding. And as far as the Redskins specifically, I almost took great offense when people can

giving them a receiver. I mean, it was nonsense. For one, yes, they obviously need a receiver, but you could tell nobody had much passion for these receivers, even if Metcalf went in the first round, like when Marquis Brown was the first one off the word of 25, the right skins had so many other holes. And this was also a very deep receiver class. You know, they took McLaurin in the third round. That's the way I was looking at it the whole time, that they would get somebody on day two. It just was ridiculous to me that people kept sending the rights against the receiver at 15 in the year in which there were not considered to be any great receipts. They just had a mock draft.

This is what happens often. They need to put this guy somewhere in round one. This team needs the receiver. I'm not going to think, overthink this. Boom, they get that guy and they just move on. All right. So congratulations on that. And I'm serious.

It's not, it's not an easy thing to do. And it doesn't necessarily, as I've spent time talking about on the podcast here, mean that these players where they were picked are going to end up being great players. But mocking, this mock draft cottage industry is because, become more than Cottage. It's now big time business and you were the best. I mean, you finish number one among mock drafters in the entire country for the second time. That's awesome. And hopefully it leads to, I mean, you were very self-deprecating in the story in the post, but, you know, people that you work for and others should recognize this because people are into the draft and

they're into these mocks all year long. Now, a couple of things about the draft. And I haven't spent a lot of time on this, but I just was sort of reminded during this conversation. You had Daniel Jones going to the Giants at 17. Obviously, they took him at 6. And then we had teams that were thought to be potential quarterback teams, Denver, Cincinnati, and Miami pass on quarterbacks. And the Redskins got Haskins at 15. If the Redskins, Redskins hadn't taken Haskins at 15. How far would he have dropped in your view? I think is a great question.

My take was that the teams to keep an eye on out, the sneaky team to keep an eye out on the quarterbacks with the teams with the older guys, the Chargers, the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, because you could imagine one of those teams deciding like the Chiefs did a couple years ago with Patrick Mahomes that they were going to make a move to get that guy. So I do wonder if Haskins gets past the Redskins, do one of those teams, does one of those teams make a move up?

Obviously, none of them made the play for Rosen, which wouldn't have cost them. You know, it could have been the same first-round pick, you know, to the Cardinals they didn't make that move, so maybe I'm wrong in thinking that. But, I mean, I would imagine he went somewhere in the first round, even if it was, you know, that some team, you know, maybe it's even like Denver or maybe even the Redskins, like, you know, trading. essentially if the Redskins do the same trade that they did for sweat, maybe it's the back of our first round. So I suspect he gets in the first round. But here's the one thing I guess I would say about this. I have, you know, like you said, we have no idea what any of these guys will do.

It has nothing to do with the smock draft or this other crap. But typically, I would just say in general, any quarterbacks they're getting picked outside the top 10 are risky. I know quarterbacks in general risky. Ryan Leap was a second pick and was an utter disaster. but typically teams are not passing on a quarterback they think is effectively they can't miss anywhere. So if you get to 15, people have questions.

And then we go beyond that, it's even more so. So I think that's the thing. I heard the term risky used a lot with Haskins pre-draft. Some people like them, but risky was said a lot. And I think that's factored into the fact that the rightskins are able to get him without having to trade up because a lot of other teams are like, okay, we'll see. Have you done your first one?

one for 2020 yet. Kevin, I'm proud to say, or I'm ashamed to say, I don't know which one of them, but the answer is yes. I'll just say that nobody likes the mock drafts more than the bosses. I'll just, the people seem to like, they soon to generate traffic. So yes, the order came in over the weekend. Yeah, drop whatever else you're doing. Put up a 2021 immediately. All right. So you've got, you've got a 2020 mock draft already up. First of all, where are the Redskins picking? All right, because that reflects what you think they're going to do in 2019. So where are they picking? Because the Bleacher Report had them with the number one pick in the draft next year.

Yeah, I think people who did the 2020, a lot of times they went with like whatever the odds, the betting odds were, and I think the Redskins were you at first or second. I didn't do that. I'll be honest, I didn't put in like a ton of time into that part of it. I kind of took the current order, shuffled it around a little bit, and just went from there. I think I had the Redskins 13th. I mean, I've still been sort of in that seven and nine range. But, you know, I dropped it a little bit from 15 because I'm like, well, if that

Haskin starts playing, I mean, it can't be worse than Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson, obviously, but at the same point, if you have a rookie quarterback, I'm not counting on tons of wins. And I don't know if you just asked me about who I gave them, but I went with the defensive back thinking, I went with a corner thinking this is probably the last year for Josh Norman, depending on how things to go. and the safety, there's a kid, the new big safety at the LSU,

looks like he could be like a top, you know, potential like top five picks. Who number five? What? He's their new number seven, the Delpit. He's the new, you know, in the lineage of Tyron Matthew. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Delpit, right.

Okay, okay. I thought for a second, you said Florida. Okay, so you've got him taking Grant Delpit at 13? No, no. So I have Delpit. going something to consider if they really do bottom out of the top five. I do have them going with a cornerback from Florida, CJ Henderson, but whatever that means. Yeah, that's the guy, number five. That's who I thought you were referring to. Delpit would be incredible. I mean,

what a player he was last year. I would think he's in the top 10. Who had the number one overall pick and was it Tua? Yeah, sorry, Josh Rosen. I gave the number one pick to Miami. So I'm going to go through this again. But, yeah, I mean, you know, obviously the mock draft at this point is literally just to introduce the characters to the upcoming television show known as college football more than it is to mean absolutely anything. I actually went back and looked at what I did last year's 2019 way too early. A lot of the names were there. We're still the same. But a lot of the other guys were completely, you know, different.

It fell out. So much will change, obviously. over the course of the college football season. And we'll see. But yeah, I mean, it's sort of a bummer that the Redskins have a quarterback because the quarterbacks are going to dominate, again, this year, in the conversation with those three guys at the top, to Fromm and Herbert.

And I think, by the way, you're much closer to reality at 13 than Bleacher Report was with the number one pick in terms of the Redskins pick in 2020. I would guess that it's going to be somewhere between six and 15. again. You know, it's, I mean, there's a seven and nine, six and ten type of season is going to put you, you know, in that, in that range where you are. Are you doing, do you do this for the NBA draft? I do. Okay. So have you, I have not seen it. Can I access your NBA mock right now? The, uh, you, you can. I believe there's a new one coming up today. Uh, I've been doing, I was, I've been doing, I was, I was, I've, started it like late in the college basketball season and then did it like weekly during the NCAA tournament and I've taken off taking some time off but uh I did submit a new one yesterday

so I think it's up today or tomorrow on NBC Sports Washington again at this point until we have the lottery until we start getting some radical buzz it's you know it's hard to say so who did you have for the Wizards were they picking in that five or six spot assuming that they don't win the lottery yeah I left them in the six spot and I've been you know between DeAndre Hunter, Jared Culver, Kobe White, Cam Reddish. I mean, it feels like one of those four guys. I think this time I've got Kobe White in there. Has he jumped up that high?

If possible, I'm letting the momentum I hear from different people who just absolutely love him. But I think he's at least in that conversation. I mean, I put him, and maybe it was just, because I wanted to do something different, but I put him ahead of Reddish and Culver. That could be unbelievably wrong. I mean, Reddish obviously faded late in the season, but people still think he's got superstar potential. And Culver, you know, he obviously did a great job of leading Texas Tech to the last

game, but then he sort of, you know, stunk, especially shooting-wise with his decision-making in the last two games. But nonetheless, obviously a tremendous player. The Kobe White thing, I think, is interesting simply from the Wizards perspective, because he can help him a point guard down with Wall out, but he's got enough size to play off the ball. I don't really like the idea of them taking a point guard. I mean, I get it.

If they get number two with John Morant's there, you've got to think about it. But, you know, taking that guy and then what are you doing with Wall? Does eventually come back. It's sort of weird. But at least Kobe White, I think to play both guards, so I think that's why he would be interesting. You know, I was thinking about this,

and I had a conversation, my boys and I were talking about this the other day because they're so into the NBA draft. And I, there's no way in my mind. line's eye that the wizard should pass on John Morant if they end up with a second pick. Like if they were to be in that number two spot behind wherever Zion goes, he's to me, he looks can't miss. I mean, of course they always do, but he looks the part to me more than almost anybody not named Zion in the draft. Like R.J. Barrett can't guard anybody.

I don't know who's going to guard at the next level. And I love his offensive talent with his size. John Morant to me looks like a major difference maker at that position at the next level. I don't know how they'd pass on him. I don't think you're wrong. When Morant had that amazing NCAA, that first round game against Marquette, I started checking around the people around the league and say, okay, hypothetical. The Wizards get, I think I said at that point, they get the third pick, let's just say Zion and R.J. Bear are off the board. Morant's there. You obviously have John Wall, but he's hurt.

Do you take John Moran? And the response I got was a resounding hell yes for basically everybody. You take him, you figure out the rest. And I think also from the Wizards perspective, look, I mean, who knows what's going to happen John Wall? Yeah, you can't be sure. Right, right. That's what I'm saying, like, if we get to the six pick, then maybe you can start deferring

a little bit. But, yeah, at that point, if the talent is, you just think he's the best guy at the left after Zion, yeah, I think at this point, you take him. you figure it out later. Where did Bruno go in your mock? Late 20s. I know there were some sense of potential lottery talk at some point during the year, but the sense I have as the season ended was lottery.

I mean, you know, interesting. You know, obviously he's athletic, his shot and put him to the bunch. And, you know, because of his athleticism, there's a place for him in the league. But, you know, I think there was like, I think maybe the lottery talk, if that really was sincere at all, was a bit overstated. All right.

Congrats again. Seriously, that's really, you know, that is, there's not, I'm sure there's some luck involved, but you got 27 of the 32 first round selections. You know, maybe the exact match is 11. That's a lot for a mock draft. I mean, I love a mock draft as much as anybody does. And, you know, they're not, it's, you look at the mock, you know, when it's over and it's like, yeah, most guys aren't close. You really, you nailed it. That's terrific. It's great publicity for you and I'm happy for you.

And now I'm going to have to lock you into a contract next year to be our official, you know, podcast mock drafter. I mean, I knew you were doing this. I mean, that's why we had John and talking about this leading up to the draft. but I had no idea you were that proficient. I didn't even know about your victory in 2012, which, by the way, seriously, and I mean this about you, it shows your humility because you and I've had these conversations before. You've never mentioned to me that you were the national champion mock drafter

in 2012. Never knew that until I read this story last night. But that's also who Ben is. Ben's not a big self-promoter. So we'll do it for him. Thanks, man. Congrats. I appreciate you. I'm going to have to hire the

C&PR firm to help people know you do have to let some information fly a little bit about yourself and then we can all talk about you and we'll do the promoing for you. We'll be out there stumping for you but you got to let us know that you actually won something in 2012. I appreciate it. I will therefore mention this that last year I didn't win the contest

but I actually had, I got 29 of 32, which was the most of anybody had last year. But you didn't have enough match. But yeah, I didn't have enough matches. What did you place? What was your place? Sort of middle of the pack. I wasn't really like, you know, I didn't get that many. I didn't come close to getting the 11 I got this year.

So I had the most in the round, but not close to the most matches. All right. Thanks so much. Congrats again. I'll talk to you soon. Appreciate it, guys. All right. Thanks to Ben Standing.

And you can follow him at Ben Stand. on Twitter. One last thing, and then we'll finish it up. The Raiders drafted Josh Jacobs, the running back in the first round, late in the first round from Alabama. He was the first running back taken. It's good that they did because Isaiah Crowell is done with a torn ACL. Tor the ACL during a workout yesterday. His Achilles, I'm sorry, blew out his Achilles, not his ACL, my fault, his Achilles. And he's done for the season. So Josh Jacobs in Oakland, you know, and a lot of expectations for the Raiders this year. They don't have really any other running backs on that roster, so that rookie will start.

That's a position where you can come in and start that year. But that's going to be a team. You know, they, so Derek Carr now, you know, we have to believe that John Gruden sold on Derek Carr. You'll have Carr. You'll have A.B. At one wide receiver, they drafted Hunter Renfro, you know, from Clemson. You know, at some point in the middle rounds, they've got J.J. Nelson. They've got the guy from the Chargers, Williams, who they got in free agency.

Yeah, Tyra Williams, great. Boy, the Raiders are really going to be one of those interesting teams to watch this year. You know, Josh Jacobs, 9 to 1 offensive rick of the year odds right now. 9 to 1? Yeah. Well, who's the favorite? Murray. Dwayne Haskins is second, actually.

Yeah, I thought I saw that Dwayne Haskins was second. Yeah, Haskins second. But Jacobs at 9 to 1. Pretty good value there. You know, that first weekend of the season features the Monday night double header. It's Houston, New Orleans, which will be second. be Tessator, Bougar, McFarland, and Lisa Salters. I have no idea who will call the second game.

But that second game is Flacco's debut for Denver at Oakland. Yeah. And that second Monday Night game. I always love that first weekend where you get two Monday night games. I think, well, they would never do it because you basically exclude the East Coast from the second game. Right. But it would be different. I wouldn't mind two Monday night games every week.

Oh, yeah. Don't forget to rate us and review us on iTunes. Subscribe as well. That helps us and tell everybody that aren't listening right now that they can listen very easily at the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to Diana Rusini. Thanks to Ben Standing.

Have a great day.