The Kevin Sheehan Show - Bruce Back or Not?

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

Kevin and Thom talked Redskins, Brandon Scherff, Bruce Allen, Dwayne Haskins and more. Also, where does Drew Brees rank on the all time list of QBs? The boys discussed Art Monk being left off the WR NFL 100 finalist list and Georgetown hoops. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yeah, Tommy's here. Aaron's here. Tommy's joining us by phone. We missed him yesterday because you attended the Steven Strasbourg press conference. I like him, man. I don't know how people feel about him and what the media people feel about him. But I just, I love him as a player. And I just think that he is coming. into his own as sort of a communicator. What did you think being there? Oh, I mean, I wrote in the Washington Times, if you can humanize a $245 million contract, he managed to do it yesterday. I mean, the things he spoke about, you know, this is where he became a father, this is where he became a husband. I've always liked Strasbourg, but I've always had a good relationship with him. I guess I'm like one of the more familiar faces that he's seen around here since he got here. So I've always had good conversations with him, and I knew that he was a thoughtful guy,

but it just needed to come out. And this year, it just poured out. You know, he's very thoughtful in his responses, and I thought he did a great job in the press conference talking about, you know, what it means to him to be here in Washington. And I just hope he stays healthy because if he does, I think he is going to continue to be a great picture. You know, he said something too during that press conference that struck me as this is why, and I've said this to you before over the years, they're young, we've got to give it time,

they're young. I mean, 21 years old, 20, whatever it is. And he said, looking back on 2009, it was a little nerve-wrack. to be honest. I was a San Diego guy. I really didn't know what the East Coast had to offer, but the nationals were there from the beginning. I became a father. I became a husband as a national. I've grown with this organization, as you just said. But, you know, he admitted to, you know, being young and him being nervous and probably even a little bit homesick, you know, that he hadn't lived outside of the, you know, of the Southern California area, you know, and coming all the way east. It's like, and I know. And I know.

that, you know, it's easy sometimes, and some of these younger players sometimes make it easy for us in the media and even fans to be critical. But God, sometimes it's just a result. And I'm not saying he behaved poorly because he didn't. But sometimes it's just a result of them being 20 years old and 21 years old, 22 years old. I mean, the things that you thought and did at 21, 22, probably looking back on them, weren't very impressive either. Well, actually, by the time I hit 21, by the time I hit 22, here it comes. I had seen and done everything.

Yeah. At that point, I was pretty mature because I had survived. But, look, you're right. And he's talked before about how previously he didn't handle things when things went wrong. He didn't handle them well. He had said that. he has basically, you know, opened himself up to say, yeah, I was, you know, I was easily rattled if things didn't go right. But he's a different guy.

He's learned, he talks about, you know, going through the storm. He's mentioned it a couple of times and to learn to the weather the storms. And that's what he's learned to deal with adversity. And, you know, he's convinced himself that it can make them strong. stronger. Like I wrote in the column, I was with him in the clubhouse when he was getting ready to do his press conference in August 2009 on the field after he had finally signed with the National. Yeah. And he walked down that tunnel like a guy walking to the electric chair. He was so scared and so uptight.

So I've seen him from the beginning. And I love the way he changed. And like I said, Now, let's not kid ourselves. It's $245 million. But you sort of forgot about that yesterday, when Strasbourg was talking about what it meant to him and his family. Yeah, you know, it's funny on the money thing. When these guys sign these massive contracts, and you see their introductory press conferences, at that point, you know, I don't, I don't know, maybe I've just become numb to the money and how much it is and how completely set they are in generations to come are and their family are because of the deal they just signed. As a complete switch of subjects, but still on the Nats, I haven't mentioned this actually

on the podcast or the radio show this week, but as we were talking about Strasbourg and his love and his acquired love and taste for Washington over the years, Anthony Rendon is obviously gone. He's going to L.A. to play with the Angels. And I did read something the other day, and I've sort of had it sitting here, and I just haven't gotten to it. Did you hear him over the weekend explain why he didn't go to the White House and what his true intentions were about the White House? Because there was a lot of speculation as to why a lot of those players weren't at the White House, Anthony Rendon included. Did you see that or not? Was this the story where he felt that Trump's stifdom in a golf match? No. Well, yes. But that, I mean,

But that was not why he actually missed. He added that in the story. But he said during his introduction, somebody asked him why he wasn't at the White House, and he said, quote, I wanted to go so bad, obviously being from Texas, I think you guys know which views we lean towards, closed quote. And then he went on to explain that he was told that the White House visit wasn't going to be until a later day, like a day or two later. and he and his wife were already scheduled to fly back. So he wasn't around. He thought it was happening a little bit later than it actually happened.

So anyway, I think that's the way it was. Or maybe I got that mixed up. Maybe he thought it was happening right after the parade. And then it ended up happening a few days later. No, you had to write the first time. I had to write the first time. Okay. Whatever it was, it was a scheduling thing, which is why he couldn't make it.

And then he did add that he was supposed to play golf with Trump and Ryan Zimmerman in Strasbourg in Florida during spring training. But he said the president bailed on Strasbourg Zem and I during spring training. So he sort of laughed and said, so not showing up at the White House was a little payback for him. But that wasn't really why he missed the White House trip. Yeah. Look, like I said before, it shouldn't surprise anybody. That multi-millionaires are Trump supporters, yes. Yes.

I mean, people have lots of money. Yeah. It shouldn't surprise anybody. Now, he also said why he didn't even consider the Dodgers was because he didn't like that Hollywood lifestyle, he referred to. So he, again, I told you before, he's a very devout Christian. And I'm sure Anaheim is much more conducive to him than downtown. LA, even though, you know, I mean, if you live in LA and you make the $35 million a year,

you can live however lifestyle you want to live. Well, of course. But Orange County has always been the more conservative area in Los Angeles. Yes, absolutely. So maybe he will feel more comfortable there. He doesn't strike me as a super political. The first place of all those mega churches that have sprung around the country started in Orange County. Right. So, I wanted to tell you about something I did on radio today. It was one of those ideas that a caller brought up yesterday and then I was thinking about it. And I'm like, ah, this will make for a good topic. Did you listen to the show today or not?

No, I did. Okay. So it was essentially, somebody said yesterday during a call segment, they said, what I'd really love to see happen is I'd love to see Dan Snyder move the team and the NFL give the Redskins an expansion team. That would be incredible. And so, you know, I was curious as to how many people would agree, would actually accept that. You know, Dan moves the team to London or probably wouldn't move it to St. Louis, moves it to London.

And the NFL comes right in, gives DC an expansion team, allows D.C. to do what Cleveland did, which is keep, you know, all of its, you know, history and colors and name and the whole thing. And maybe the city then, you know, bites off. on a new stadium for a new owner, and it created an incredible reaction, including from one particular caller in particular, this guy, Ivan, who calls the show and has been calling the show for years, going back to when you and I did a show together, who suggested that it was sort of anti-Snyder talk. It was ridiculous in that my hatred of Snyder doesn't sync up with the rest of the fan bases. And he suggested that actually people don't.

don't dislike Dan Snyder. They just dislike the results. To which I said, first of all, personally, I don't dislike Dan Snyder. I don't know Dan Snyder. So I don't know enough about him to actually dislike him or hate him personally. I hate what he's done in owning this franchise, but I made the following statement to him. I said, there is no chance that your opinion is the majority opinion. I think easily more than 50% of the fans or people that used to be the fans dislike the owner personally. What do you think? I think you could divide that percentage up into exactly the amount of Redskins fans that show up at Goastown Field on Sunday. I think it's much greater than 50%. Well, I do too. I think

it's much greater than 50% too. I think it's a significant majority. But that's a ridiculous statement. He must be a relative. Well, he's on Twitter, it was an overwhelming reaction that Ivan's out to lunch by himself, which is fine. But here's the thing. There is a distinction, right? There's a distinction of hating what Snyder's done, you know, to this beloved treasure of a franchise and, you know, this thing that's been so good for this city and this community for so long and turning so many people off to it and ruining it, really. He's ruined it for everybody over the 20 years. And then also disliking him personally. I think people dislike him. I think people dislike him personally too. And I'm talking about people that have no idea what he is like personally or not.

I just think that there is a dislike for him personally beyond, which obviously stems from the job he's done as an owner. Yes, absolutely. I mean, people in the limited, I mean, since they don't know him personally, in the public information they have, they have a guy who sued old women, old widows for season tickets. Even if it wasn't him, if it was some guy in the organization whose idea that was. Yeah. I mean, they have the guy who tried to cut down trees with the National Park Service to get a better view of the river from his house. They have enough. They have the guy who sued the city paper because he didn't like the way he was portrayed.

in that story. There is more than enough, as they say in law and order, circumstantial evidence to dislike Dan Snyder personally. And, you know, he's not interested, apparently, in changing that narrative. Yeah, I don't, I don't know if he's interested in changing that narrative or not. I don't know why you would absolutely be convinced that he's not up at nights, you know, hating the way people think about him, because he's got to, he's got to feel some of that. He's got to, he's got to feel some of that. But to your point, and I made the point, it's not just the results on the field. It's the off-putting way in which he has run the organization. It's been an embarrassment beyond the results. And there are people and many out there that don't want to see him win because

they don't want to see him, you know, have success at this point because they dislike him personally. I believe that to be true. Most people agreed. It sounds like you agree. But to your point, I think, you know, this was sort of the overarching point that I made on the show today because I think it's the most important point. You know, if they are angry at a conversation like the one I had this morning on radio or hashtag sell the team or hashtag fire Bruce Allen or hashtag don't go to the games, you know, if they're angry about that, well, they're misguided because what they really should be focused on is taking the emotion out of that and wondering why people like me feel the way that we do, how we got to this point of having something in our lives that was so important, something we loved so much, was part of sort of our identity in many ways. and many, many have essentially said good riddance.

Like they should be more focused on how people got to the point where these conversations are taking place because maybe at that point they can begin to try to fix it. But they have to understand what they've done to get people like me into the position where we can have a conversation, a serious conversation about would you be okay if they left town and you got an expansion team? which, by the way, the majority of people said, I'll sign up for that today. Or why people hashtag sell the team or hashtag move the team or hashtag fire yourself or fire Bruce Ellen.

You know, Tressway made the Pro Bowl and they put something out on Twitter. Go read the responses to that and tell me that people are just, just upset with the results. It's more than that. It's become personal with a lot of people. Whether they know these people personally or not, it's become. personal. But the way the organization handles these kinds of things is instructive because in the past they've either

missed the fact that people feel this way or they've been so arrogant to believe that we're all wrong and they're right. This is something I've spoken to before. It seems like such a simple concept, but it's the essence of being a good owner in sports. The most important question an owner need to ask themselves every day is what's the most important thing for my organization? In other words, Bruce Allen may be his friend, but what's the most important thing for the organization for Bruce Allen to be gone? So the owner needs to say, it doesn't matter what I feel,

it doesn't matter what my personal feeling thing, what's the best thing for the Redskins? and I don't think he ever asked himself that question. I think he just satisfies his own whim. Yeah. It's remarkable. I think I asked Adam Kilgore this back in the end of summer, right when the season started, when he wrote that story in the post about Snyder. And, you know, I said, you know, have you, does anybody tell you,

have you asked the question, has anybody sort of explained? if he's getting any joy out of owning this team. Like, I just can't imagine that this isn't miserable for him right now. You know, but, again, what we know from afar, I would venture to say he's a joyless person. I would venture to say that about him, that he's a joyless person. I don't think that's true, actually. I don't.

I don't think that's true at all. I think that there is a lot of joy, especially when he's on that boat and beautiful locales around the world. But that's not what brings you true, joy. That's not what brings you true joy. And I don't think I don't know, and I couldn't speak to him not being a family man and getting joy out of his family and the people that he loves. I could never say that.

In fact, if I guessed, I would guess that he gets joy out of his family and that he has, you know, that that is a very important thing for him, from people that know him who say that he is, you know, tends to be very family-oriented, but whatever. You know, neither one of us knows for sure. No, I said based on what we know from a far, I would make that conclusion. Listen, family was very important to Michael Corleone. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, the two things are not separate from each other. It's interesting about the expansion franchise. My point is that you can get joy from your family, and I would bet that he probably does, and you're saying that he's joyless. But go ahead. Right.

The one thing about an expansion franchise that would be definitely a benefit, if the NFL said yes, we'll give you an expansion franchise to replace the Redskins, but you need to build a stadium, that stadium would then finally get built. Right. Yes, I mentioned that this morning, and I mentioned, you know, the conversations that you and I have had and your belief that it's not going to get built and that land isn't going to be provided even if he chooses to pay for it himself and that they're going to be playing at FedEx Field and Landover for the foreseeable future with no stadium deal. And yes, if you had a new owner, perhaps that could get accelerated with the jurisdictions around here because they don't want to deal with Dan Snyder.

Now, with that said, the whole conversation, I did point out that there's no guarantee that you're going to end up with something much better, but you are probably guaranteed that it won't be any worse than it's been. No, no. I think you're absolutely that. And the thing about the expansion franchise is not just dealing with a new owner is then you have the real threat of not having a football team here. That would be the threat that would force the jurisdiction to come to the table. If the NFL said, yeah, we'll put an expansion team here, but you've got to provide a stadium. That's the threat that would accelerate the stadium.

Even before you knew who the owner was that you were dealing with, but you're right. It would, I mean, it would be hard to be worse. It would just be difficult to imagine to be worse. But you know what? None of this is going to happen. He's not moving the team. Of course. They're not left of Redskins. One of the charter legacy franchises in the league move.

Yeah, it's not, and that was prefaced prior to the conversation. Again, to me, the real importance of conversations like these is to reflect just how bad it's gotten. You don't have conversations like these with lots of people participating and believing that they would prefer that without it getting to a point where it's really bad. And this is something that should be instructive and not taken emotionally by the team. It's one of those things, Tommy, where it's like, you know, they might be angry about some of these hashtags that are out there. Hey, don't be angry. Ask yourself why people who loved you at one point in time, who spent lots of money on you at one point in time,

who were totally loyal to you at one point in time, are no longer that way. That's what you have to learn from. Because if you don't learn from that, and you don't admit that that's actually a reality and your reality, you'll never have a chance to fix it. Never. But that is the reality,

that the significant majority of the fan base doesn't feel very good about anything regarding this franchise. And because of it, their habits, their consumer habits with respect to this team, have changed significantly. And with some of those people, even if you win, you won't get them back. I think you'll get a lot of them back if you win. But most people in that position don't believe that you'll ever win. And why would they? You've got 20 years. This is always my point. Yeah, a lot of people will come back. A lot of people will root for the Redskins if they win. win. But you've lost some people. There's a segment of the fan base that you've lost who aren't

coming back. Is it the majority? No, of course not. But you've lost them. And you know what? These days, teams can't afford to lose fans. No, they can't. You just can't afford to. All right. So did you want to weigh in on the stuff that I spent time on yesterday, the less carpenter piece, the standing stuff on Haskins, just refreshing everything? everybody's memory on yesterday. Carpenter had a piece in the post where basically he described something that we've all been talking about for two months, which is sort of the new relationship or lack thereof between Bruce and Dan. But he also had in his story yesterday the line where multiple sources told him that people with knowledge of the situation say Snyder has not yet made a decision

on Allen's future with the team. That was the less carpenter piece. And then the standing piece said that the relationship between Urban Meyer and Dwayne Haskins was not a warm relationship, and concerns over Haskins' maturity were an issue in Columbus. Did you want to weigh in on any of that? Well, it's December 18th, and Bruce Allen is still in the building. So his exit hasn't happened as quickly

as some people thought it would happen. You know, this is one of the most conflicted things that I have to have an opinion on because there's part of me that can't fathom how he Dan Snyder would move forward with Bruce Allen there. Right. I just can't fathom it. So stick with that. But no, but put, but there's the other part of me that, you know, that deals with the reality that I couldn't fathom it before.

and he's still here. Yeah. This is a new level of low, though. I guess it is. I guess it's a new level of low. But, you know, last week at Goetownfield, the Philly fan, I don't know why. It's been worse in numbers, but it just seemed worse. It seemed the worst it's ever been because it was.

so loud every time the Eagles did something, and it was so silent every time the Redskins did something. I don't remember it being that dramatic. Last year's season finale was that. Well, no, I was there at the season finale. Yeah, it was telling you. I'm telling you, the level of the contrast in level of interest, you know, in terms of noise, you know, in terms of noise, was the most dramatic I've ever heard. The most. Back to what you said. I understand the feeling.

It's the same feeling I have. It's like I can't fathom how he could possibly trot Bruce Allen back out for another off-season and season of being the team president if he really understood what his customer base or what's remaining of it thought of Bruce Allen. but I felt the same way last year, so I'm conflicted as well. But I've just, I think, I've gotten to the point where I've heard the same things from people that I actually have some level of confidence in. I've heard it a little bit stronger. And then that combined with, come on, people, anybody looking at this thing, not even, not knowing anything about the history would say, well, this is a slam dunk.

Like the record, the reaction from the customers, there's no possible way. Like it would almost be a total middle finger to what's left of the fan base, which it would be. Why would anybody do that? Well, somebody who likes sticking his middle finger up in the air. Like we do that. You respect that. Absolutely. You know, some people don't.

down when they're basically under attack. And so I think it's perfectly feasible that Bruce Allen could continue here and still be here. I'll tell you, if they had beaten Philly, we might be having a different conversation. Because they can win out now. They could beat the Giants. They could beat the Cowboys. Yeah, I mean, the problem with, you know, down the stretch here. has been winning, you know, gives them at least a crack, you know, in the door if it had been

shut or if it was almost shut, it opens it back up to, you know what, maybe you were right, and maybe Callahan is the right guy, and maybe we are, you know, really close. Look at the way they've played down the stretch. And then you just have to, you know, then remind everybody, you beat three backup quarterbacks, three bad teams. And the games that you were close in, you know, give you an A for effort, which I have. And I've credited Callahan for, you know, a team that's really fought hard. And by the way, improved, which is always, in my mind's eye, one of the things you look for when you're trying to identify whether or not a team was well coached.

Did they get better and play their best football or basketball or whatever at the end of the year? And there's no doubt that this team is. However, however. it's not a winning combination. It's not bringing these people back. We're going to have the same conversation a year from now. But yes, you beat the Giants, you beat the Cowboys, and now all of a sudden it's, you know, what is it?

It's four of the final six, and the two you lost, you had a chance to win, and Callahan's records five and six. And, you know, those delusional people out there could make the case that they're close, that they've got a damn good culture and they don't want to move off of it with a new group. So, yeah, anything's in play, Tommy, especially when your leader is, by all accounts, someone who is impulsive and changes his mind pretty frequently.

Yeah. What about Urban Meyer as the general manager? No. I don't see that. Why are you seeing that? because somebody tweeted out that this guy. Chris Spielman said, who played at Ohio State years ago. Many years ago.

Yeah, has connections there, obviously. Urban Meyer, if returns to football, will be in the NFL, but it won't be as a coach. It will be as an executive. I don't know anything about that. Okay. I haven't heard anything to that end. I don't think fans would like that.

I think fans would be angry that we wanted you to coach. We didn't want you to run the team. I think that would be the reaction from fans if Urban Meyer was somehow hired to run the Redskins. I think there'd be a large segment of the fan base saying, no, wrong job. That might be true, but there'd be enough people, and I would be included that I would certainly be intrigued by it, because I think he's a brilliant football mind, and I think that he's always been that. And I think he's also, you know, he's a leader. You've seen that in multiple spots.

He's won everywhere he's gone as a coach, where he's essentially also run the entirety of the football program and the recruiting. I think it would be interesting. It would be interesting. And let me point out, let me point out, I hope that relationship the Redskins have with Inova is strong because Urban Meyer made a few trips to the hospital over his years as a coach.

Yes. And that will be tested if he comes to work for this organization. I know. Well, maybe the pressure of being the team president slash GM would be less of a toll on the old ticker than being a head coach. Who knows? Maybe. Let me quickly do a read. Go ahead.

Go ahead. What did you want to get to? Yeah, what about the Dwayne Haskins thing? You want to talk about that? Yeah, I said, if you want to weigh in on that, go ahead. I talked about yesterday, but essentially, it was good reporting. It was a really good nugget from Ben on the relationship between. He's very connected.

I mean, you know, shouldn't be surprised. This is a guy who gets his mock draft. Oh, yeah, he's been brilliant. Ben's a hustler, and Ben's got a lot of relationships with agents in particular, a lot. But go ahead. So he's very plugged in. Look, again, you know, I've taken a lot of heat over my criticism of Dwayne Haskins, and I wrote Sunday for Monday about how, you know,

well, now we are definitely in the Dwayne Haskins there because he played so well. There's no turning back now. He did play well on Sunday. And I gave credit for that. My issues with Haskins have always been non-football issues. They've always been the stuff that, that, that he's shown from the time he wanted to wear number seven, you know, I don't go through the whole thing. So his maturity, his sort of like self-absorption, those are my issues and

have always been my issues with Dwayne Haskins. I don't know if he can play quarterback in the NFL, but he certainly looked like he could last Sunday. You know, I don't go through his Twitter handle, but as you started to talk about him, I figured I'd get up to speak. beat on all of it because I thought you were going to drop something on me on so on on on on his social media for the week did he um retweet what was what what was uh pro football focus numbers where was his rank I don't well you looked that up Aaron because it had to be really good from Sunday I mean hell if he was third in the league after the game against the pack against the um Panthers he had to be much higher but he he did retweet some stuff yeah I mean you know whatever I

But that speaks to his issues at Ohio State that Ben was talking about. Maturity. Okay. There are a lot of these guys are immature. It may be maturity, but it may be who he is. It's not always maturity. I understand that. It could be who he is.

It absolutely could be. And we'll find out, as you just pointed out, we're in the Dwayne Haskins business now, which I was ready for anyway and predicted anyway. And as you know, I've been, I think, a little bit more bullish, on his prospects as playing the quarterback position in the NFL through the first five starts than most. And it wasn't that I was like super feeling vindicated or feeling like, you know, I'm on the right path from Sunday's performance because I was expecting something like that to come.

But Sunday's performance had some bad in it too. It was not an A-plus game. It was more like a B-plus game, but it was his best game all around. ultimately. We're going to see more games like that. This guy clearly is progressing from in terms of playing the position physically and mentally. You can see that week in and week out, and then he's got the certain intangibles, and he may have some things that are going to work against him. But he's got the intangibles of being a tough competitor, being a guy that doesn't get rattled, being a guy that has some poise, you know, out there. And it appears as if he's also coached,

because he's made a lot of progress over these six strokes. What was his ranking? Dwayne Haskins was graded as a 65, which was 18th best in the league. Oh, okay. So 18th, how was he third against Carolina and 18th on Sunday? I don't know. I don't know either. Now remember, he was last, according to another website that used analytics after that Carolina game. That showed the absurdity of these websites. I know, complete absurdity. All right, let me do a quick read for Stamps.com, and then I want to get to the Drew Breeze conversation that I want to have with you here. First of all, when I talk about Stamps.com, I am wondering who still goes to the post office and why when Stamps.com is an option for you. You don't need to interrupt your workday to fight traffic to get to the post office, especially during this time of year during the holidays when the post office is busy.

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So off of the Drew Brees performance the other night. Yes. Can I just add one thing because I want to go on the record with it if I can? Yes. Okay. You remember at the beginning of the year, I made a prediction that the quarterback who played for the Redskins at the end of the year wasn't any. even on the roster yet.

Yeah. Well, that's going to turn out to be very wrong. Right. And I just want to give credit where credit is due. I figured that the offensive line, particularly with Trent Williams, not there, was not going to be able to protect any of these guys. And they, you know, that group has played well, I think, for the most part. I think they played better than anyone expected at this.

point. And I want to give them credit for that. They, I think that they were better. They didn't collapse with the absence of Trent Williams. They managed to patch something together. I think this goes to Bill Callahan, to be honest with you. And they found a guard in Eric Flowers that everybody laughed at. It was almost out of the league. And that goes to Bill Callahan, too, as well. He's always been convinced, I've heard, that Eric Flowers in the right position could succeed. So I just want to go on record, giving them credit for, first of all, for me being wrong. You know, I mean, he don't happen very often, so I like to make sure they're noticed when they are. And then for Phil Callahan, for doing such a great job in coaching this

offensive lineup. up. That's stunning to me. You rarely remember the predictions that don't turn out right. And you know what? I mean, they still have two games left. I mean, three quarterbacks could go down this Sunday. They might have to sign somebody to finish up the season in Dallas. It's not even over yet. You usually don't give up on this stuff that early. But good for you. Props to you for finally coming clean on something that you got wrong. It doesn't happen very often people. Tommy does that. Now, I do want to mention about Brandon Sheriff in the offensive line. How the hell did Brandon Sheriff make the Pro Bowl? Seriously. First of all, he's on injured reserve. Secondly, he has not had a great year. By any occasion, all Redskin fans can agree that that was a bit of a shocker to see Brandon Sheriff on the Pro Bowl team. Tressway, good for him. He totally deserved it.

He's been the best punter all season long. He's had some really good years here. Brandon Sheriff being on the Pro Bowl team is a joke. He's on injured reserve and that brings up a whole other conversation about what they're going to do with him in the offseason, which we can have at a later time. But this Pro Bowl thing is such a joke when you consider it just from this perspective. Forget about who's voting on the Pro Bowl and players voting for people they like or people with reputations, et cetera. Why do you announce a Pro Bowl team with still two weeks left in the season. Two of the most important weeks of the season with a lot of huge games where certain guys are going to step up and play really well and certain guys are not going to play well.

I'd like to know, and I don't know if I've ever seen an explanation as to why the NFL reveals its Pro Bowl roster with still two weeks left in the season. Two full weeks to play, two games left for everybody. I don't understand that at all. Unless it's somehow to prepare travel-wise for Hawaii, I don't get it. And then, Tommy, they have a list of alternates and second alternates and third alternates. The Redskins have a first alternate in Landing Collins and a fourth alternate in Matt Ionitis, which I would, Matt Ionitis had as good a year as anybody had on.

this roster. So I don't, you know, it must be the position and the depth of really good performers at that position. But the NFL should fix this. Name the Pro Bowl team when the regular season ends, please. Can we see these players for two more weeks? There's no fixing the Pro Bowl. It just can't be done. I understand that, but it's the, it's the recognition of being a Pro Bowl. I don't care about the game. The game is irrelevant. It's that a lot of people put a lot of stock into who was named Pro Bowler and who wasn't. Now, all pro is much more meaningful to me than is the Pro Bowl. But the Pro Bowl still has some cachet to it. How about naming the roster when the season ends? I mean, is that that hard? Did you read the Redskins press release on

your guys making the Pro Bowl? I just saw the tweets and the reaction of the tweets. This is my favorite part. In case you're looking to get rid of Bruce Allen, You need to read this part, including two selections last season. The Redskins have now produced at least two Pro Bowl players in four consecutive seasons for the first time since the 2007-2010 campaign. So there you go, buddy. And you want to get rid of the guy that has produced two Pro Bowl players in four consecutive seasons? Can you imagine if somebody told Dan Snyder that or Dan read the press release and said, wow, I had no idea. Four straight years of two pro bowlers?

Jesus. Okay, hold on for a second. That thing where I was telling you that we got to fire Bruce, we got to sit down and go through the pros cons list again. Because on the pros list is two pro bowlers for four consecutive seasons. What a job they are doing. Yes, that's right in the middle of the press. leave. And by the way, I might want to point out. Point it out. I might, yeah, point it out.

The Baltimore Ravens have 12 players in the football. I know, I know. Exactly. Okay, you want to talk about Drew Breeze. Yeah, I want to talk about Drew Breeze. Because off of the performance the other night, which really was amazing, 29 of 30, the highest completion percentage in the NFL history for, I think, over 20 attempts in a game. 307 yards, four touchdowns. He set the all-time,

passing mark for touchdowns. Brady's three behind him, still playing. But anyway, you know, he set the yardage mark last year in the game against the Redskins when he passed Peyton Manning, which Brady did later in the season as well. He's like 2,000 plus yards ahead of Brady on the yardage list. But it sparked a conversation yesterday in a lot of different places. I watched, I heard a lot of it on TV in particular during the afternoon hours about Drew Brees and where he falls on the all-time greatest list. And a lot of people are saying, look, he's number one in yardage, he's number one in touchdowns, he's number one in completion percentage. He's the guy. He's the goat. He's the greatest of all time. And I just sort of laughed at that and

immediately said, well, I got to talk about this on the radio show, which I did. And I want to talk about it with you. But before we get to Breeze, I wanted to say that I know that you are going to consider some of the old-timers. You know what? You've always spoken very highly of Otto Graham. You know, I didn't see Otto Graham play. I didn't see Sammy ballplay or Norm Van Brocklin or Sid Luckman or YA Tittle. I saw very little of Unitas's career, you know, the real productive part of his career. So I can only put together a list of players that I saw. But let's start with the Breeze conversation. I have him on my list at number seven. And I'm going We give you the top six. Brady, Elway, Manning, Marino, Montana, Rogers, and then I get to Breeze.

Where do you have Breeze on your list? You know, I would have, I would switch that list around a little bit, and I would have Johnny United and Montana. You have Montana, right? Yeah, Montana at number five. I would have Johnny United up in that list as well before Breeze, and I would put Breeze ahead of Aaron Rodgers. But this whole idea of he's got the most yard, you know, the most numbers. Look, when Fran Tarkington retired, he had the most of everything.

And nobody thought that he was a better quarterback than Johnny United at the time or any of the quarter, or somebody, or Sonny Jurgensen, for that matter, you know, even though he held the record for everything. So, I mean, you can't get caught up, particularly when you're comparing error. in these records thing. But I would have three, about seventh on my list. I would just have United States in the top six. You know, so when we've had these conversations before,

they are much more, the conversations I've had with you versus others, much more about what we saw and what we watched and what we think without a lot of the numbers involved, which, you know, a lot of people get the numbers involved, and then a lot of people put a hell of a lot of ways. on winning Super Bowls versus not. That's why a lot of people don't have Marino as high as I have Marino. Some people don't have Manning that high because of his overall playoff record

and how many playoff games he lost. Before those Denver years, he had a losing playoff record. I mean, came up super short in games where he didn't play well at home as a number one seed with home field advantage throughout. And then you take a guy like Breeze and, you know, Breeze, you know, you watch him and you're like, boy, what a system Sean Payton's put together. Breeze is great. He's a top 10 guy, no doubt. But those that would have him higher would say, you know, in the last two years, he should have been in a Super Bowl, if not for the worst

miscall in postseason history. And, you know, the Minneapolis miracle, the bomb from Case Keenham to Stefan Diggs, you know, that knocked him out of a chance of potentially going to a Super Bowl as well. So if Breeze had been in the last two Super Bowls, you might think of Breeze differently. And I think that might be true. But, you know, Breeze has also been on some teams that had lousy defenses where he couldn't elevate those teams to better records. You know, John Elway elevated a lot of those Denver teams much beyond places and to places they should not have gone. He went to three Super Bowls with a very average team around him. And it wasn't until he got a better defense and a run game where he finally won the Super Bowl, but he got that

team to three of them. But really, it was watching Elway that made me think that Elway was the greatest of all time until Brady. And Tommy, I also thought of this, and I want you to get some of your thoughts on this here in a moment, and some of the guys we may not have put on the list. But, you know, this off seat, this postseason, excuse me, upcoming, maybe Brady's biggest opportunity, even Belichick's biggest opportunity. Because the expectations for this Patriots team entering the postseason may be the lowest I can remember. Nobody thinks that they can go to Baltimore and win. Kansas City, if they play at Arrowhead, the Patriots will be an underdog in that game, a significant, maybe a sizable underdog.

What do you think Kansas City would be favored by at home in the divisional roundover, New England? Six? No. Five or six? I think that would attract too much attention, six. What, Tommy? I would think six, six or seven. Tom Brady, if he goes into this postseason, for anybody that doesn't have number one on this list,

if he goes in and takes this team to the Super Bowl, that's his all-time achievement. It's a great defensive team. I will grant you that. Just like Denver was a great defensive team when Peyton got to the Super Bowl in 2016 and won it. beating Carolina in the Super Bowl. That was not about Peyton Manning, but if he plays well and the offense plays well, this could be Brady's number one moment and number one opportunity, not that he needs him. He's played, Tommy, he's started in 40 playoff games. He's got two and a half regular seasons worth of postseason games. Yeah, no, he's the number one. That should be

clear to anyone. I might want to point out that Tom Brady didn't make the Pro Bowl. No, he didn't. He didn't deserve to make the Pro Bowl this year. No, he didn't. Another reason that if he wins and he plays well in the postseason, it's another incredible, you know, maybe a top level, top three type of achievement for him. If he plays well in the postseason and gets this team to the Super Bowl. Yeah, look, Drew Brees is in the top 10. of all time, wouldn't you say? Yeah, I've got them at number seven.

Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's that's the basic argument. Who are your top ten? Because who's, you know, after Brady, it's really debatable as to who's two, three, four, five, six. You know, I don't see how you can't have. Some people don't have Brady one. Some people have Montana one.

I know, but those numbers are dwindling. Those numbers have dwindled significantly. I was one of those guys. previously who would do that. You know, some people have Terry Bradshaw in the top ten because he won four Super Bowl. Yeah, I don't. Do you? No, I don't. And you know what, Breeze's performance the other night, 29 of 30,

it always reminds me when you see a performance like that of what Phil Sims did in the Super Bowl. 22 of 25. Yeah. for three touchdowns and no interception. I mean, when you can complete that many passes and have that many incompletions, it just really stands out. That's what stands out about Breez's performance,

29 of 30, but to do 22 of 25 in a Super Bowl without any interceptions. It's still remarkable to me. So whenever a mark like this comes along, I always think of Philips. But, you know, it's funny, Because we have this argument about quarterback, but nobody ever argued who's the greatest running back in the history of the league, do they?

No. Jim Brown. Yeah. I mean, it's just, these arguments are so interesting like that. That's non-debatable, but quarterback, because I guess, you know, I'm not particularly, I don't know why. If there was a quarterback, maybe. I mean, I don't know how any one could not pick Brady at their number one quarterback.

back at this point, and Belichick as their greatest coach. Because there are a lot of things that, you know, in the argument against Brady for the greatest of all time, that are reasonable. Like, you know, he started in all those playoff games and he advanced in all of those playoff seasons because they always had home field advantage because they played in one of the worst divisions over a long period of time, and there was no legitimate competitor to them in their division. If you had put him into a more competitive division, he would.

wouldn't have had as many home field games, may not have made as many playoffs, and may not have been in position to advance as easily as he did. And you also, you know, have the argument of greatest coach in history, greatest system in history. But Brady's done it with just too many people over the years. I mean, there have been too many sets of players that he's done it with and too many, you know, big-time clutch performances in big games in the postseason. But the, you made me think of something that I now forgot what I was going to say. But I go ahead. Too many average players.

Oh, I know what to, yeah. You know, I mean, Brady, let's take Randy Moss out of the equation, because he played with them very briefly, and they didn't go to Super Bowl with Randy Moss. Of all those Super Bowl teams, Tom Brady has played with one guy who's probably a Hallfamer, and that's Rob Gunkowski. Other than that, Tom Brady, you know,

there's no Hall Fame receiver. offensively. Offensively. That's what I mean. So it's not, it's the weapons that he has. It's Moss and grok. It's Moss and Grunk. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. There's no, there's no John Stalworth or Lynn Swan or Jerry Rice or John Taylor. None of that. No. You just reminded me of the wide receiver conversation, which we can have right afterwards if you saw the wide receiver, let's know our monk. But so what I was going to say is, you know, when you, when you have these debates about the greatest at a specific position of all time. There are only two positions where there seems to be no debate.

Wide receiver with Jerry Rice, nobody debates that ever. I don't think it can be debated. Jerry Rice is the greatest wide receiver of all time, and no football fan ever debates that. And then secondly, no longtime football fan people who remember Jim Brown's career ever debate the running back position. It's Jim Brown and then count a few spaces to get to number two. You know, whoever your number two is, Emmett, you know, or whatever your number two is, it's a couple of spaces below Jim Brown.

Every other position, including quarterback, always has a debate, a big-time debate, including wide receiver, which I'll get to in a moment. I was just going to say that there are a couple of quarterbacks. You didn't mention the guy because you've always mentioned Otto Graham and Paul Brown in particular, as guys that have never, you know, for people my age or younger, we just don't get their greatness and that they deserve to be. Am I right about that? You've always said that about Paul Brown. But haven't you always said that about Autogram as well? Not so much Autogram. Although I'd have no problem if somebody put Otto Graham in his top 10

quarterbacks of all time based on what he's done. He's often there. Yeah, in winning championship. Paul Brown was the guy that, that in that NFL network, top 100, was the first coach named, the one that Belichick went out of his way, to introduce as an innovate. He was such an innovator. They gave him his own franchise for crying out of life. The Cincinnati Bengals,

and he quickly turned them from an expansion team into a winner. So, yeah, I mean, but again, I mean, at this point, you just want to be in the top ten. You're right about Jerry Wright. There's no argument about Jerry Wright. Everyone's arguing about second place. It's interesting. You know, ESPN a couple years ago, when they did one of these other top 100 greatest

players of all time, they put Jerry Rice first and Jim Brown second. I know. I've seen that before. And I think that was just to break up the monotony of always picking Jim Brown first. And the other thing is, as far as Jim Brown, he hasn't played in 50 years. I know. I know. And he's still considered the best.

Right. Back to the quarterback thing just for a moment. So I do think that there is some separation maybe with the top five or six and then a group that includes Breeze. Like to me, Brady Elway Manning, Marino, Montana are sort of put them in any order you want to put them in. I go Brady Elway Manning, Marino, Montana, but a lot of people might go Montana Brady or Brady Montana or whatever.

Some people don't have Marino that high. But I think there's separation from a group that finished out my top 10, which is Drew Breeze, Steve Young. I've always had young very high, higher than most. I put Unitas in my top 10. I did not see him at his height, obviously. I do remember him in my very first memories of football being the Colts quarterback and then very sadly ending as the Chargers quarterback.

I remember that. but I knew enough and remember my father and others talking about Unitas and have read enough about Unitas to know and recognize that he's probably a top 10. My number 10, Tommy, was Stawback. And I don't know how many top 10 Stauback ends up in. Staubeck was a great quarterback and one of the all-time clutch gene quarterbacks of all time. You're right. Absolutely.

A great quarterback who would have had a much. much longer career if he didn't serve his country in the Navy. He was a guy who was late to his NFL career after he did his service time. And you're right. I mean, sawback, I'd have no problem if people put stallback in the top ten as well. The interesting thing is, you know, both of us know that Sonny Jerson was probably a better quarterback than most of those guys. I think Sonny is definitely

in the conversation for the top 15, top 20. I do. I think it's only because of lack of championship accomplishments. It's a lack of winning it all, really. Yeah. Keep

them out of the top 10. Yeah. But people who know quarterbacks, who know the position, they say Sonny's the best pure passer of all time. Well, I mean, The top 10 and the quarterbacks that we've talked about all won much more than Sunny did, even Marino. You know, Marino was on a consistent winning team that was in the playoffs a hell of a lot. You know, Sunny in the 60s now, it's a different deal.

It's 12 games. It's then 14 games. It's fewer playoff teams. It's, you know, and we know, we know this. And, you know, NFL historians know that the teams he played on in the 60s where he was putting up outrageous numbers well ahead of his time. were terrible defensive teams. Terrible. And then what really hurts Sunny in this conversation, Tommy, is that when George Allen got here, Sonny was fixing to be, you know, Alan's guy.

Even though Alan really liked Billy Kilmer, don't get me wrong, but if Sunny didn't consistently get hurt, he would have just based on it would have been obvious to Alan that they had a much better team and a much better ability to score points with Sonny than they did with Billy. But Sonny kept getting hurt and he missed out on an opportunity to, you know, in the 72 season, you know, be on a team that went to the Super Bowl. He couldn't, he got hurt in that season and couldn't play on a team that went to the Super Bowl. And, you know, he came back in the next two years and had moments, but it was, you know, on and off because of injuries and because of a quarterback controversy.

Those are the two that started it in this town. But, yes, Sonny, people, NFL historians recognize, son. Johnny's greatness and recognize that he was almost ahead of his time. I think that there are guys that we haven't mentioned. I've always, I think Kurt Warner doesn't get nearly, nearly the credit he should get for being a great all-time quarterback. I'd have him somewhere in my top 15. I'm not a fan of Favre in that top 15 range or Bradshaw or even Aikman, but guys like, stable to me never get enough credit when people start talking about a top 15, top 20

quarterback list of all time. He was a great NFL quarterback and one of the great clutch quarterbacks of all time too. Okay, well, if you're going to do that, I mean, you've got to include Frank Targerton. I have Tarkington. Tarkington would be in my next five. He'd be in the next five. Like Tarkington Young, you know, like, you know, I read something yesterday, and I was going to bring this up to you, Jameson Hensley, who covers the Ravens for ESPN, wrote a story yesterday that's very interesting, actually, and it's titled is Lamar Jackson putting up the best season ever at quarterback. And in that story, there's a quote from Kurt Warner from the NFL network saying,

if he gets to 35 or 40 touchdown passes with what he's done running the ball, it has to be in the conversation of the greatest seasons ever. To me, the Marino season in 84 when he threw for over 5,000 yards and 48 touchdowns in an era that obliterated everything in the record books. That's the greatest season I've ever seen by a starting quarterback. But this dude, and it's in James and Hensley's story, he's a combination, Hensley writes, of Barry Sanders and Tom Brady in one body.

And it really is amazing. the season that he is putting together when you consider both the touchdown passes and the rushing yards. Yeah, well, it is. It's something we haven't seen before in terms of the combination of both of them. We haven't seen as dramatic as this before. So you think he's the hands-down MVP. Oh, yeah. Tommy, it's been years, years since we've seen one-plus.

player impact a game the way he impacts a game. And by extension, has impacted one team's season and the landscape of the AFC and potentially the NFL. I mean, they are the favorites to win the whole thing. He's going to be the MVP. I mean, you've got to go back to one of these Peyton Manning seasons probably where he's thrown for, you know, 50 plus touchdowns to think of a season that equals the impact that Jackson's had. that team's unstoppable because of him. I know. I just think that people shouldn't fall asleep on Russell Wilson as an MVP candidate.

I'd have Russell Wilson right now pushing up against the top 20 of all time. I put him on my list of people that probably isn't on a list right now of the top 20 greatest of all time, but he's going to be on that list when his career's over. He's going to be way up on that list. Yes, he will. You know, we've probably only seen half of his career. career at this point. You know, so he's got a lot left. You know, Rothesberger's career has been a great career. I mean, I'm a massive Philip Rivers fan. Philip Rivers' career, to me, is Hall of Fame

and top 20 all time. But he really didn't have any of the postseason success, like Sonny didn't. Right. No, absolutely. Anyway, did you see the wide receivers list that came out, the 25th? finalists on the wide receivers? Yes, I did. Do you think Monk should have been on the list? No. Why? I just don't think he's one of the top 24 wide receivers of all time. I mean, you know, I mean, I know he broke the record for most receptions, but if I was picking a team, I would easily pick 25 or 30 receivers to be on my team before Art Monk. So you feel differently than you felt about Riggins. You and I were both convinced Riggins should have been on the final 24 list.

We agree on that. And I think that Munk certainly has a case to be on this final 24 list based on some of the people that are on it, Tommy. I didn't feel as passionately about the argument as I did about Riggins. But as an example, I didn't see all of Charlie Joyner's career. I saw a lot of it. You know, I saw those great Charger teams, the Air Cori-L teams that he was a part of. You know, Charlie Joyner, I believe I'm right about this, past Charley. Taylor on the all-time receptions list. Taylor had passed Don Maynard in 75 on the all-time

receptions list. And then Monk passed Joyner. I think Monk was a better player than Joyner. I don't think James Lofton was that much better and more in line with, you know, sort of equivalent with Art Monk. I don't think John Stallworth was better than Art Monk. I think Charlie Taylor was better than Art Monk, and I'm thankful and glad that Charlie Taylor was on this list. He deserves to be on this list. Charlie Taylor is the greatest wide receiver in Redskins history. Monk is number two. Listen, I think Roy Jefferson was a better receiver than Art Monk.

Oh, come on. Roy Jefferson. Tommy, come on. Roy Jefferson? Better than Art Monk? Listen, before he got to Washington in Pittsburgh with no quarterback. Wasn't he in Baltimore, too, before Washington? One year.

Okay. He played most of his time with Bad Steelers' teams. Average per catch, 22 yards, 24 yards in his first two years. 24 yards per catch. I mean, that's remarkable. 16 yards, 19 yards, 16 yards, and then he was traded to the Redskins. It was the secondary receiver after that on a team that wasn't a passing team. But I think Roy Jefferson, look, I'm not going to, I wouldn't go to the grave for it,

but I mean, my point is that I don't think Art Monk is a top 25 NFL receiver of all time. What about, okay, so that's one thing understood. What about some of the people that are on the list that he's not in front of? What about Charlie Joyner? You saw Charlie Joyner's career. I saw Charlie Joyner's career mostly. I saw most of, well, I saw all of John Stallworth's career. I think Art Monk was a better receiver than Charlie Joyner and John Stallworth.

I think you could argue that. I think you definitely could argue that. Well, so maybe... I don't think it's such a travesty that Art Monk is not on the list. I don't think it's a travesty either. And I was very clear yesterday to say that I don't have nearly the same passion or feeling that he was wronged like I do with Rigo. Okay? But I looked at that list and said, there are people on this list.

I'm not even going to get into comparing the numbers because I don't know what the comparison of the numbers are. Because I know his numbers are better than Michael Irvin's, but I'd have Michael Irvin on this list before Art Monk. Michael Irvin was a better receiver than Art Monk. I don't care what the numbers are. But he was a better receiver than Charlie Joyner. He was a better receiver than John Stallworth. I think you could make the case that he was a better receiver than Chris Carter, personally.

So there are people on this list that I would have put Monk in front of. Now, there are people on this list I've never heard of. I had never heard of Pete Piehoast from Philadelphia. and I'm a football fan. I've heard of Tom Fears and Elroy Crazy Legs-Hersh and Don Hudson. I'd never heard of Pete Pyros. Had you?

Oh, yes, I did. I wrote a book about the Eagles. He's written books about every NFL team. Oh, my God. I forgot about that. You wrote a book about the Eagles? What teams have you written books about? No, that's it. The Orioles, the Eagles,

and Redskins. I've written two books about the Redskins. You know, I'm the only one who wrote the official authorized history of the Washington Redskins. I know. I know. The only one authorized history. I'm upset that you never used me as a potential quote in there as a Redskin historian. Very upset about that, but I don't know that we knew each other then. You know what? You know what? If I saw you in a grocery store, I would have stopped you. So the Roy Jefferson thing, is that a comparable argument maybe to the Gary Clark thing? Because, you know, Gary Clark's numbers are pretty good and in some cases better than guys that are in the Hall of Fame, especially if you add up all of his numbers, including USFL. But even his NFL numbers are comparable to some guys that are in the Hall of Fame. What Gary Clark did that Art Monk didn't is his average yards per catch were probably, well, I think they were much.

higher than monks. Let me look that up. I know it is, but I want to see what the difference is. Gary Clark for his career, 15.5 yards per reception. Monk for his career, 13.5 yards per reception. So that's the difference there. Roy Jefferson, yards per reception, 16.7 yards per reception. That is pretty impressive. The first two years, though, really carried him. Yes, they did. 22.1 in 1965, 24.1 yards per reception in 1966. In Washington, you know, in part because of the offense that they had. It was a run-heavy offense with Larry Brown, and it was George Allen saying be conservative,

and they didn't throw for a lot of yards. But he didn't have a season where he had more than four touchdown catches and didn't have a season with more than 43 receptions. And his yards per catch were much lower here than they were anywhere else. Yes, they were. Yes, they were. Okay. I think we're done with that conversation.

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And Georgetown has had, you know, how many players leave the program now in a week and a half? Four players leave the program in a week and a half. And they've won four consecutive games. Now, they played UMBC last night, so that's not like an impressive win. But they went on the road and beat Oklahoma State. State, SMU who was undefeated. They pummeled Syracuse at home Sunday. Syracuse is not great this year, and they just beat UMBC last night for the fourth straight win. And Lenardi's latest bracketology, they're in the field as an 11 seat. This would really be an incredible job if Georgetown

continues to play well with a limited roster. How many players do they have that are eligible on the roster. I mean, I can't imagine that they've got more than 10 to practice with. You know, they probably brought on a couple of walk-ons. I have no idea, but you got to bring on some walk-ons when you lose that many players just so you can practice. You know, it's a hell of a job. I watch their game against Syracuse, Tommy. I've said this about Patrick Ewing since he got to Georgetown. I'm not a Georgetown fan. I don't watch a lot of their games, but I've argued with Georgetown people who have told me, I don't know about Patrick. And I'm like, you know what, I watch them and they look well coached to me. And in their game against Syracuse the other day on

Saturday, their zone offense against that two, three exceptional, exceptional the way they run zone offense. Not every college coach runs great zone offense. They did. Anyway, I thought it was worth noting how well they've played with all of the turmoil surrounding them. I also saw this late yesterday. I did not see this. I understand it happened the day before. I didn't see it until late yesterday. You remember Mary Fenland, who was a part of the Georgetown staff for all of those years. She was in charge of the academics with all of those players, that older woman that used to sit side by side with Big John, with coach. She passed away the other day at the age of 81. She was a fixture for Georgetown basketball for all of their glory years in the 80s. Look, I mean, she was part of the legacy that helped create Georgetown basketball.

And, you know, I'm glad to see that Georgetown is competitive because I think sports in this town is better when Georgetown has good basketball. Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, I don't root for Georgetown. I'm a Maryland guy, but I remember the days when both of them were really good, and it was, it just increased the interest. I mean, we don't have an NBA team really to root for it this year. They're not any good. So, you know, you got Maryland ranked in the top, you know, five, top ten, and they'll be a fixture, certainly in the top 12, top 15 all year long.

Georgetown could be a tournament team this year. It'd be an amazing feat if he gets that team to the tournament. One last thing before we go, because Aaron and I were talking about this before the show. North Carolina tonight on the road at Gonzaga. Gonzaga is the number two team in America. They're a 12-and-a-half-point underdog, and they're not ranked this week. Like North Carolina stinks this year. They lost Cole Anthony, the guy that could be the freshman of the year to injury.

How many games is he out, Aaron? Four to six weeks. I don't know. It's kind of cool to see the Blue Bloods every once in a while have just a complete meltdown season, not be ranked, maybe not be a tournament team. I wouldn't count Carolina out. They did, they've beaten a couple, they beat Oregon. I know that earlier this year. They also lost to Wofford. They also lost to Wofford the other night at home at Carmichael. They played that game at Carmichael. But Aaron loves Gonzag at a night laying, well, you got it at 10. I got it at 10.5. I don't know if I love it at 12.

And a half 13. Yeah, they're up to 12 and a half 13. Carolina is struggling in basketball. No tears shed on that one. Anything else from you before we let you run? Because I'm done too. I'm done, boss. That's all I got for you. All right. I'll talk to you later. Are you going to be on tomorrow with me? What's the deal? What's your schedule the rest of the week?

Yeah, that's the plan. All right, why don't you come on tomorrow with me, and then we'll have a show on Friday that's a football Friday. If you want to wait until Friday to come on, you can do that too. Whatever you want to do. Tommy's schedule got thrown off this week with the Strasberg Press Conference. which is fine. All right. Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to all of you. Have a great day.