The Kevin Sheehan Show - Bruce Speaks

Episode Date: January 23, 2019

Bruce Allen spoke and Kevin recapped all of it. Michael Phillips from the Richmond Times-Dispatch was in Mobile and part of the media group that interviewed Allen....he joined the show. ESPN Senior NHL Writer Greg Wyshynski was on the show to discuss why the Caps have lost 6 straight. Kevin led the show with the most relevant NFL Overtime data. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I'm here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com and tell them we told you to call. Bruce Allen spoke yesterday afternoon. We cut it up and we'll go through it like I'm heading up the Warren Commission. That's coming up here shortly. We'll talk some caps. with Greg Wyshinsky, who is always one of my favorite guests. Aaron and I were talking about this before the show. The hockey guests in this town, and Greg's an ESPN national writer, but he's from here. Lives here, right? Was the Katsky guy for a long time, yeah.

But the hockey guests for long-form radio podcasts have been the best over the years. Joe Beninotti, Craig Lachlan, you know, Greg Wysinski, Barry Melrose. I can't remember the last time I had a hockey guest on that I thought sucked. Seriously, I don't think that that's happened. They're all really good. They're all very, very enthusiastic about promoting the sport in which they are covering. The players themselves over the years have been the easiest of all of the athletes to talk to and to interview. Now the players themselves haven't necessarily always been great interviews,

but man, the people that cover the sport have been. So Greg Wyshinsky is going to join us a little bit later on. The Caps lost last night in overtime, and that is six in a row now. Losses. And they've got one more game tonight against Toronto before the All-Star break. We'll find out what, if anything, is wrong with the Caps and whether or not it's something that is a bigger, issue for All caps fans to consider when they get to the postseason. Before I get to breaking down the Bruce Allen discussion yesterday, which at times I thought was delusional and borderline dishonest, I wanted to mention this. So yes, I do follow Kirk Cousins on Twitter. I do. And he tweeted something out the other day that I read late last night. And it started a process for me that

kept me up until about three in the morning. He tweeted out, I kind of understand the regular season overtime format, but in a conference championship game, shouldn't both teams get a possession even if one team scores a touchdown? That tweet that he sent out was, I mean, it's not Redskins hashtag fire Bruce Allen territory, but Kirk should get the hell off social media because people are killing him every time he tweets, every time he tweets. Every time he tweets. You don't need to worry about this, Kirk. You'll never see one, meaning a conference championship. It just, you know, it just throughout the thread is criticism of Kirk's tweet.

I'm getting sick of Kirk Cousins. Let me just say that. I'm getting sick of him on Twitter and social media, and I'm a big fan. He needs to get the hell off social media. He needs to stop talking. After the season he had, it doesn't matter that anybody that really watch the season knows that that team offensively with that offensive line was a mess. It's on him with that contract. I get it. He should get it. Doesn't seem that he does. So I'm not thrilled

with my boy Kirk these days. You're anti-Kirk now? It's not anti-Kirk. I'm always going to be supportive and hope for the best. And I do think he will eventually be a good quarterback. Well, he's already been a good quarterback, but a winning quarterback. But I'm sick of him on Twitter. But anyway, his tweet about the overtime thing and the conversation since Monday, since Sunday night about overtime when Patrick Mahomes did not get the ball in overtime and a chance to respond because the Patriots went down the field and scored a touchdown to end at 3731, there's been a big conversation of that this week.

Here are the two big conversations. conversations, general football conversations, rules, replay, should replay be a part of subjective calls like pass interference? And what about the overtime rule? So a lot of the statistics came out, you know, over the last couple of days about the team that wins the coin toss is like just slightly over 50% with the new overtime rule. In 2012, we instituted the NFL instituted the new NFL overtime rule. No longer could a field goal win it on an opening possession. You couldn't get the ball at your own 30-yard line, move the ball 30 yards, and kick a 57-yard field goal to win by three and end the game. It wasn't pure sudden death from the jump.

And that change, I think, ultimately, was a very good one. I think it really was a good one because, you know, the thought was it will ensure that both teams touch the ball, that there will be a very strong possibility that both teams will touch the ball. Now, the numbers that have come out haven't, you know, been, haven't necessarily swayed everybody, you know, and the numbers that have come out aren't the numbers you need to really hang your hat on if you're looking for a change or if you want it to stay the same. The number about the team that wins, the tosser the team that gets the ball first because that's happened in 99.9% of these games. I couldn't even find the information about teams that deferred and decided to kick off after winning

the toss. So I'll get to what I did here in a moment. But the bottom line is that it's not about whether or not the team that touches the ball first wins the game, that percentage, which is just barely over 50%. The thing that matters, and this is the piece of information, that everybody needs, that I could not find available anywhere the last couple of days. And it doesn't seem like it would be that hard for somebody to do what I ended up doing last night. And that is to find out how many times the team that touched the ball first won the game with a touchdown on that first drive, thereby preventing the other team from touching the football. That's what we all want to know.

because a lot of times the teams that get the ball first, you know, they win the game just slightly more than 50% of the time, but they don't win the game slightly more than 50% of the time on that first possession. So I'm looking for the data that I want. I want to find out how many of these overtime games since 2012 did the team that didn't touch the ball first not get a chance to touch it at all? That's the number you need. That's the percentage that you need.

It wasn't available anywhere. So last night at about 11 o'clock, I started a process. I swear to God, Aaron, you can look at these notes. Look at, I went team by, it was not available. This is a full legal pad right here about, I'm looking at six, seven, eight, nine. No, it's about 11, it's 11 pages. 11 pages. Yeah, it's 11 pages of going team by team since 2012 and counting up the overtime games.

And then going into the box score, the play-by-play. to see how the overtimes actually played out. Pro football reference didn't allow me to do that. And if somebody can tell me how you can just pull out all of the overtime games from pro football reference, that would have made it easier. It still wouldn't have allowed me to just add up some numbers and move on. I would have still had to go into the play-by-play. But I had to go team by team, team by team, starting alphabetically.

because I had to go alphabetically, Aaron. Do you know why I had to go alphabetically? Because I couldn't repeat overtime games. So I went Arizona, Atlanta, Baltimore, Buffalo, Carolina, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and so on and so on, counting up all their overtime games, and then identifying, was the game won on the first possession? Or, you know, in other words, did both teams have an opportunity to touch the ball? I also came up, I figured as I was going through this, I wanted to know what the average number of possessions were in an overtime. And I'll get to that later on.

But let me just tell you basically what the findings were after I went through this. But the reason, once I got through the alphabet, about halfway through the alphabet, we started to get repeats. So the back half of the alphabet of NFL teams was much easier. The last 10 teams I did in 30 minutes. There you go. The first 22 teams took about two and a half hours. I can only imagine if Tom was here right now. He killed me.

He killed me. So this is what I have. Here are the findings. How many overtime games were there? Since 2012, since the new rule was instituted, that the game couldn't end on a first possession field goal. 117 overtime games, regular season and postseason combined. 117.

Did that include this weekend's games? It did. It included every game, yeah, because we had two overtime games this weekend. 117 overtime games in the NFL since 2012, since the beginning of 2012. This is the data that matters more than anything else. If you're legitimately upset over the rules and you feel like both teams should be guaranteed a possession. 19.7% of the time, 23 of the 117 were decided on the first drive with a touchdown to win by 6. Only 19.7% of the time did just one team touch the ball.

80.3% of the time each team got a chance at the football. Case closed. This is not a problem in the NFL. it's not a problem. And you should know that anyway, because any overtime game that ends with a field goal, a team winning by three points, means it's automatic that both teams touch the ball. All right, it's automatic. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean an offense touch the ball,

but you had a chance at a possession with a punt return or a kickoff return. You know, you had a chance. All right? If you fumble the kickoff return in overtime, that counts as your offensive possession. So most overtime games end with a score differential of three. Just 19.7% of the time. 23 times out of 117, the game was decided on the first possession, and the other team did not get a chance at touching the football.

That's not enough to make this. a big deal. People have been going nuts over this. They feel like, oh my God, this can't happen anymore. It happens all the time. It doesn't happen all the time. It doesn't. It happens two out of every 10 overtime games, basically. The other eight times both teams touch the ball. That's my work today. I'm going to tweet that out because I don't think anybody else, I haven't seen it anywhere. It's actually funny. As you were going on that rant, just as you were saying, I couldn't fine anymore. Paul Papps tweeted out something. Didn't have the exact

same numbers that you had, but very similar. Let me pull it up here. Who's Paul Pabst? Why don't I know that name? He is, he's on the Dan Patrick show. Okay. He said since the new NFL overtime started in 2012, 18.8% of the time, the team that got the ball first scored a touchdown

21 of 112 in the regular season. In the playoffs, it's 62.5% 5 of 8. Yeah, the playoff number is different. Okay, so he He had slightly different numbers. Here's what I had. I had 117. He had 112 regular season games.

And what did he have five over? Eight overtime games. Eight overtime games since 2012 in the postseason? Yes. That's what he said. He might be wrong. I had 10. Okay.

No, I had six. Whatever. I had 117 total. So he had 100. 120 total. 100. 120. 112 in the regular season 8 in the playoffs.

Yeah, so he had 120. I had 117. Well, I mean, it's close. The numbers are close. It was like, whatever. The numbers are really close. Exactly. So he had actually less.

Yes. It's a non-issue. It is interesting about the playoffs. And obviously somebody did it already. Damn it. I wanted to tweet that out right when this show was over. Hey, you can still, you can still do it. Maybe it hasn't been picked up.

Well, now I'm worried my numbers are a little bit off. Now you're self-conscious? Yeah. All right. Let's get to this Bruce Allen thing. So Bruce Allen. talked yesterday. And he talked in Mobile in like a little bit of a ramp in the stadium going on to the concourse level. J.P. Finley was there. Craig Hoffman was there. I heard Michael Phillips's

voice. Tarik, I'm pretty sure was there. Tarc. El Bashir was there. I don't know who else was there. Somebody from the post had to be there, right? I think I heard less. Was less there. Okay. Less Carpenter. So I would urge everybody, if you have a chance, just go to Redskins.com and click on their videos, and you can actually watch it because I think it's actually a bit different watching him answer these questions. But anyway, my first reaction to it was, you know what? He's not angry. He's fairly poised, given the incredible scrutiny and the hash. fire Bruce Allen movement and perhaps personally some of the pressure that he's been under. And maybe some of the hurt that he's been feeling. I mean, he's a human being. I mean, no one in the history of this town sports-wise has ever been personally attacked by the fan base

the way Bruce Allen's been personally attacked here over the last couple of months. I can't think of any anyway. I mean, it's possible. I guess Dan Snyder, of course, but not in the intense way in which it's played out over the last couple of months. I'm going to go through each part of this and just have a couple of comments on each part. The questions, overall, by the way, I was going to say, I think the guys that were there did a pretty good job. I think they did a pretty good job. You know, there are a couple of follow-ups.

You know, you could have become not necessarily antagonistic with Bruce Allen. and you could have been a little bit more firm in some of the follow-ups to some of his comments. But I know the situation they're in, and I've been in one-on-one situations much more often than, you know, what we call in the trade of gangbang, where everybody's in on one interview and people are firing questions away. I think everybody did a pretty decent job. That's a tough spot. They wanted to, you know, it's clear, I don't know if everybody got together, but they started off with some easy stuff like, how's Alex doing?

And he went through, you know, the Alex Smith stuff. And basically, I'm going to save, I'm going to play back some of the important parts. The Alex Smith stuff, he just talked about appreciating the, you know, that Alex appreciates the love from the fans and the caring from the fans has really helped him. And it was good to see him at the Wizards game. And, you know, and what he didn't say is that he expects Alex back. he said if anybody can come back it would be Alex Smith so there was some of a there was a small takeaway when it came to him discussing Alex Smith that they don't know and they aren't necessarily

optimistic if they were optimistic he would have said hey we actually think Alex is making great progress and we think there's a chance he'll start you know the 2019 season or be available for us in 2019 he did not say that he just said if anybody can come back from it. It's him. Then he was asked about Greg Minusky. This is the first part that I want to play is the question about defensive coordinator meetings, the Jason Lock and Forre report about the Todd Bowles meeting, the Greg Williams discussion, Steve Wilkes, etc. Listen to Bruce Allen, explain it. It was reported that you guys have brought in a couple of high-profile guys who wanted to take a defensive coordinator jobs elsewhere. What were the conversations like with Coach Munusk?

assuming that he is going to stay and saying, hey, these are people that we're bringing in, but I guess his job is still his job. Yeah, Coach Minnusky was in several of those interviews that you're talking about. And once again, we're trying to find the winning combination for 2019. And there's a lot of good ideas out there, a lot of good football coaches out there. And the more that you talk to others, the more you can learn. And that's what we're using this next month for. Just to circle back, Greg Mundusky was in on the meetings with Bulls and Greg Williams and Wilkes?

He's been in a lot of the interviews, yes. How does he go into that? He never interviewed Wilkes. You did not interview Wilson. No, I didn't know you guys. But in the Todd Bowles interview, what is that conversation like with Greg talking to another guy that's currently a defense coordinator or head coach type? Well, I'm going to leave that profession to itself. Those are private meetings.

And once again, there's more. conversations going on with coaches around the league than probably has been reported. There's going to be conversations with coaches here tonight, and they might go back and see Jay, and Jay might come down here tonight. So he will talk to probably another 20 to 30 coaches around the league. All right. So that's the first thing that I wanted to spend a moment on. Greg Minusky being involved in these meetings.

Here's what Bruce Allen never specifically said. says in any of those answers, including J.P.'s follow-up question where, yeah, I think anybody that was listening to that live was a bit taken aback when he said, well, Greg Minusky was involved in some of those meetings. Really? Greg Minoski's going to sit down with Todd Bowles, his replacement potentially, and watch the owner pitch him hard on coming in and offering Todd Bowles anything. I don't believe that Greg Minoski sat in on the Todd Bowles meeting. I do not believe that. Bruce Allen did not say that specifically. He said he was involved in meetings, but he gave no specifics on which meetings.

Like, was he involved in the meeting with Todd Bowles? Was he involved in helping to pursue Greg Williams or an interview with Greg Williams? I think what Bruce got away with there is saying that Greg Minoski is involved in some of these meetings for other positions on defense, like Kirk Olivadati's replacement and Tori and Gray's replacement. That's what I think he was involved in. That's my guess. I don't know that for sure. But when it got to the Bowles meeting specifically, J.P. referred to that.

He deflected in that particular situation. I just don't believe that Greg Minnowski was sitting in and on the meetings where they were going hard to try to convince Todd Bowles to become Greg Minoskey's replacement. I don't believe that. Or if they did, that's crue. that's cruel by the Redskins and dumb. If I'm, if I'm Bulls, if I'm Greg Williams, I don't want him in the room when you're courting me. Yeah, I would feel, yeah,

if you're Todd Bowles or if you were someone else that has been interviewed for that position, it would be uncomfortable for the interviewee, I would think. Yeah. To sit there in the room with the person that they potentially would replace. So I'm not believing that. I think that Minoski's been involved in in helping to interview potential replace.

for some of the spots that they've had now on defense. Olive Addi and Tori and Gray specifically. That's what I think. The next piece that I wanted to get to was his answer, Aaron, to why Jay Gruden, they felt it was best that Jay Gruden come back to coach the team next year. To the decision to bring Jay back. What went into the decision? To bring Jay back.

Oh, for Jay to be the head coach? Yes. We looked at the program. We felt the direction of the team was good. We didn't get over that hurdle this year. And we've given him the opportunity to build a staff and hopefully have a healthy team for the 2019 season. Wouldn't it have been funny if he had just said,

we didn't think we could find anybody else. We didn't think anybody else would take the job. That's the true answer. But as we found out, he's not saying many. true things in this press conference. So, you know, look, I mean, felt the direction was good. He also talks about the staff a little bit, referred to that a couple of times. Jay's coming back because they believe that they've been close. You know, this is something that I've talked about a lot. There is definitely a feeling, and we're going to get to that here in a moment where he actually

says that he believes that they're close. But if you believe you're close, but if you believe you're close, then you don't make significant changes at head coach. But I also think there's an aspect to it that they probably don't think they could do better than Jay Gruden right now. I believe that to be true as well. All right, here's the first part of Bruce talking about the dissatisfaction of his fan base.

Tell you about how wins and losses are really what the accountability factor is to this franchise. What do you say for fans and supporters who asked about that, accountability-wise, via you specifically in your job? Well, we're seven and nine. It wasn't the players, seven-and-nine. It wasn't the coaches seven-and-nine. It was everybody was seven-and-nine. Doug and his staff, we have to find some better players.

We have to find some healthy better players to come in, and the coaches have to put them in the right position to win. We're in the middle of the pack, and we've been in the middle of the pack, the last, three seasons and it's it means you're close it means you're close to being better and we have to find the right ingredients and and the right chemistry to do that. And you meant that this team is close? Well yeah, we're two games out of a playoff and no matter how you want to look at the season, we were two games out of it and the year before we were one game out of it and the year before we were one game out of it.

So we have to find the right ingredients to get over that hump. And I think with the talent that we're seeing here today and what's going to be available and free agent and getting our players back healthy, it bodes well for us. Okay, so a couple of things here off of that. He had said earlier in the interview that he wasn't going to use injuries as an excuse, and then multiple times he referred to the injuries in health.

And again, I'm, don't have a problem with that personally. I think the NFL, you know, injuries are not an excuse. I think there are a reason, legitimate reason. The healthier teams typically do better than the teams that aren't healthy, and the Redskins have been the unhealthiest of teams the last two years. Now, here's where you get into, I think, maybe the most interesting and most revealing part of the interview with Bruce yesterday. And that is, you know, getting inside. their minds to understand what they think they have right now. You know, I was told a few weeks ago, and I mentioned this on the podcast, that they just didn't understand the reaction from the fan base.

They didn't, they don't understand where it's coming from, you know, that there's this feeling inside the building that they're close. And you heard Bruce say that. They're close. Close to what? You know, close to being better was his quote. We're in the middle of the pack, but we're close to being better. Better what? Eight and eight? You know, nine and seven and an outside shot at a wild card. He also was completely wrong about something that he said. And this speaks to either a deflection, trying to sell something that can't be sold, or complete and utter delusion. He said, we were, you know, we were two games out this year. We were a game out last year and a game out the year before. They were not a game out last year. There were four games out last year from the postseason. The NFC last year,

do you remember? Carolina was 11 and 5. They were one wild card. The Eagles won the division at 13 and 3, and the second wild card was Atlanta at 10 and 6, and the Redskins would have if they had won three more games, they would have still lost a tiebreaker to Atlanta. They were four games from the postseason last year. They were four games out last year of a second wild card. Now, had they gotten those four games, they would have been 11 and 5. Would have won 11 games for the first time since 1991. But they weren't, they're not close. They're two games out this year. Now they can, you know, and he refers to health. You know, you can definitely throw the injuries in as a reason that they weren't closer to a wild card birth. We've been through that. Men,

times that conversation. You know, to me, last year, without all of the injuries, they would have been closer to nine and seven, which would have still been two games out of the playoff picture. They're not close. And if they are close to something, it's not good enough what they're close to. You know, what they are close to in their own mind is, you know, they're close to. hanging a wild card participation banner out at Redskins Park. I mean, who the hell wants that?

Is that what they're going for? Is that the mandate? Make the playoffs go 9 and 7 and somehow backdoor your way into the postseason? Because that's been pretty much the only way they've been able to get into the postseason over the few times they've done it during the Dan Snyder era. is a late season run to get in on the last weekend of the year. They have not had one really good regular season. Not one.

The 10 and 6 RG 3 year was a 6 game win streak to end the year. Six games or 7, 7 game win streak to end the year. They were 3 and 6. And you know what? That was a good, I guess comparatively, that was a damn good season. But they haven't had a really good NFL season. where they were in the conversation from the jump, where they were 8 and 3, 9 and 4, 10 and 4 going into their final 2,

chance at a buy. They have no chance at any buy, no chance at an 11-game wins, 11 win or better season. This is the part that to me is frustrating because it is not what, you know, If that's the goal, where is this headed? Like, if the goal is 9 and 7 and a wild card weekend, it's not good enough. You know, when he says they're close, let's all understand now, because we heard this yesterday, because he outlined the last three years, and what were they close to?

This year, they were two games out of a potential wild card berth. Last year, they were four games out of a wild card berth. So they weren't close last year. And the year before that, they could have been nine, six, and one, and grabbed a wild card birth if they had beaten the Giants in that final game of the year. All right. The next part I want to get to, Aaron, is the part where he refers to the crowd, the Eagles crowd at the end of the year. because I think this is another deflection slash delusional answer. It's one of the other.

There was a sharp decline in attendance last year. We all saw what the finale looked like, you know, maybe 75% Eagles fans. How concerning is that as president of this team? Well, our fans are passionate. And I think when we had went to the deep into our depth chart, I'll say it that way. They didn't want to be there for an Eagle victory maybe at the end. But we've hired some new people for our business staff. They've engaged our fans.

They've engaged our sponsors with a great enthusiasm. And I think you're going to see a big change in 2019. What was it about the previous business staff that they were not doing correctly or that was not properly engaging with the fans? I'm not going to get into that in the personal things in the front office. all of that. But I believe the people we've hired are bringing an enthusiasm for our market that our fans are really going to appreciate. Well, Bruce, the only thing the fans are going to really appreciate is your hide. That's the only thing they're going to appreciate. They don't give a shit

about a new business staff trying to market tickets to a product that they don't want to see. I mean, he knows. He's got to know that. The part about the Eagles game, and going deep into the depth chart. Another referring to the injury situation this year, that they didn't want to come see the Eagles win. Had nothing to do with it, Bruce. Seriously. Not one person decided on that Sunday not to go to that game

because they didn't want to be there to see the Eagles win. They didn't want to come because they can't stand you, the owner, or the team right now or the organization. And you were completely out of it. And yeah, you were deep into your depth chart. But you needed to, I would think that he understands the following because he's, you know, aware of the numbers from a revenue standpoint. He missed the big picture, which is that the fans hadn't been there the entire season.

It wasn't the Philadelphia game. The Philadelphia game was just, a memorable image because the Eagles needed the game and Philadelphia fan came down and took over the stadium. But just as big of an image in my mind anyway is a half-filled stadium for your home opener against the Colts. You know, as a one-and-o team on a beautiful day, by the way, in September with Alex Smith and Adrian Peterson coming off a hundred-yard season opening performance against the Cardinals. Fans weren't there all year, Bruce. It wasn't the Eagle game. They didn't care honestly at the end if the Eagles won or lost. In fact, I think some people

were so incensed. They wanted to see your team get their ass kicked by the Eagles. That's how bad it's gotten. You know, understand that you didn't sell out one game. You didn't come close to selling out one game. And I understand the, you know, the lack of transparency in previous years with respect to attendance, and that this year was the first year we got real numbers. So it's very possible that they didn't have a sellout last year or the year before and that the attendance was, you know, close to what it was this year. But nothing, and I've said this a million times, nothing was more indicative of the state of this fan base than the home opener against the Colts. 50,000 in the stadium, maybe on a beautiful day for a 1-0 team where optimism was actually in play

at that point because Alex Smith people were excited about and Adrian Peterson, a Hall of Fame running back, had gone for 100 plus in the opener. That's the one if I were them that I would have been stunned by, shocked by, wait a minute, if we can't get people to the stadium when there's actually a chance of us not sucking, how are we going to get them there ever? That was really another deflection, I think more than delusion personally. I think he had it planned that he wanted to say something about that final game and wanted to embrace the fans, desire to not see the Eagles win. That was the strategy. It was a bad strategy because nobody's buying it. Nobody decided not to go to that game because they didn't want to see the Eagles win the

game or they didn't want to see a bunch of Eagle fans in the crowd. They didn't come to any of your games this year. You had a major issue with all of your home games when you were six and three and hosting the Texans who had a long winning streak at that point, right? Texans had won five in a row or whatever at that point. And it was a pretty big game in the NFL that Sunday. And the stadium was three quarters filled. You know, 25% empty. I think they know all this.

I think they know all this. I think there is, I've said this a million times. There is absolutely a delusion inside that building about them being close to something and about the fan base being more disappointed than apathetic. There's always been that, and there is this reliance on feeling good at these events

where a very insignificant percentage of the fan base that never thinks they do anything wrong shows up and makes them feel good about how great they are. And their takeaway from those events sometimes is, hey, look, our fans are still happy when it's, we're talking about 5%, 10% of the fan base, max, probably 5%. But they know what the numbers were from this year. They know that there was an erosion.

They know that this erosion's been happening. You know, the reasons for it, they don't believe it's them. They believe that, again, it's disappointment. They've had injuries. They've been close, and they'll come right back. Once we're healthy, they'll come right back. And they'll learn to love Bruce. And Dan and Jay.

Because Dan wants to win so much. He just wants to win so badly. All right. I want to get to the Ruben Foster thing. There weren't significant takeaways from this, but I do want to just play the exchange, Aaron, start to finish. There was a follow-up question or two there

when he was asked about the signing of Ruben Foster and the current status of Ruben Foster. Where do you think, Dan, with Ruben Foster right now? Clearly he cleared from Florida. The league is still finishing their investigation of it. We finished our investigation with it. He's working hard. He's healthy and doing the things that we have mandated that he do

in order to ever wear the Burgundy and gold. Do you feel expected a suspension of some sort from the league? And where do you see him fitting in X's and O's on your defense? I think he'll fit in very well. well into our defense as a player. I don't know why we would expect a suspension, but we'll let the league finish it. How did your family risk reward when you decided to claim him? We discussed it. You know, we went back to the reports we had a year ago from him coming out of college. I think we had a good sense of who the person was and did our own quick investigation of

some of the facts that we had heard and, you know, we're fortunate that the outcome was what somewhat anticipated. What were the outcome was going to be that you were going to have a player that you could actually eventually put on the field? Well, I'll just say we did our homework on what we had to do on the, on the player himself, and we know a lot of people who know him, and we'll see. has a ways to go in order to get on the football field, but right now he's doing everything correct. And that statement you indicated that you had talked to some of his Alabama teammates who were on

the Redskins now, and many of them told us they had not spoken with you. Can you clarify that? Yeah, we do talk to our players quite a bit. We don't want our players discussing what we discuss with them. We've talked to them about players in this upcoming draft, and they won't discuss it. We talk to people at Alabama. We talked to a number of people. What was your investigation into Ruben's incidents? And what did you mandate that he'd do? You mentioned that you? Not going to get into what we investigated, but we felt comfortable that we knew the player. And I should say, we knew the person involved. And Rubin has demonstrated since he's been with us, that he wants to play football. He wants to do things the right way. He wants to be a valuable member, not only of the

Redskins on the field, but off the field as well. And we'll see what happens with that. All right. So there are a couple of things there. I still think that Bruce would do himself and the organization some benefit by saying, look, we signed him because he's a really good football player and we need to win. We knew we'd take an absolute beating from a public relations standpoint, but please understand that we understand the seriousness of domestic assault, and we've been involved in multiple charities, et cetera. You can list all the different things they've done from, you know, breast cancer awareness to anything that they've been involved in with any great charity against an obvious, you know, cause. But he should say, we knew we knew we knew. We knew,

we were going to take a beating. We did, you know, our homework. And if he's, uh, if he's found guilty or if something happens in the future, he'll be, you know, he won't play for us. And he did mention that, you know, for him to do certain things, he's, he's going to have to do certain things to wear the burgundy and gold. I just think there's still something from a, we get it. We understand that what we were doing in the moment was not about presumption of innocence or presumption of guilt. It was about the optics of it in this day and age of the Me Too era and the issues that the league has had. That's the one area in which I would have loved to have found out from him if they heard from the league about it, if the league was upset, if they've heard from

corporate sponsors about this particular signing. Anyway, to what he said, you know, the part about the Bama players, the follow-up to that, and he said, look, we talk to our players about a lot of things, and we asked them to keep some of those things to themselves and not share some of those things. I can completely buy that. I don't have, I wasn't hung up as hung up on that particular issue of John Allen and Duran Payne and some of the others saying they weren't asked when the team sort of put it on the fact that they had talked to Ruben Foster's teammates. I think they did talk to some of his former teammates. I think they talked to the linebackers that were in his position group at Alabama, Sean Dionne Hamilton and Ryan Anderson, both of

whom were on the Redskins. I think there were some Bama players that they probably talked to to find out more about Ruben Foster. And I can completely understand why they would have conversations about certain players that they might consider drafting. You should do as much due diligence and ask everybody, some of the best due diligence they can do is right there in their building with their own people when they're considering drafting a player or signing a player. They've got lots of resources inside that building and then they have some outside of it. I think their quick investigation didn't include enough. It didn't include calling the Northern California District Attorney's Office.

We know that because Tommy was the only one that did call, or at least the first one to call. and that was after Ruben Foster was signed. He also said he's not sure why the league would suspend him. I'm paraphrasing there, but he seemed to imply that he'd be surprised if he were suspended, but that's for the league to consider. We'll see. We'll see. You know, not to beat a dead horse.

This was never about the player, about the opportunity, about innocence or guilt. It was never about that. The last thing, I'll just paraphrase real quickly on the stadium. He says they've had great dialogue with local officials. He said that the moat stadium, the one with the moat around it, the drawings that that Swedish firm, I think it was a Swedish firm did. He said that's completely outdated. That's an old design.

That's not what the new stadium will look like. And he said that the RFK site is really between the city and the federal government to figure out the lease issues for that property. And he's confident that something could get done by 2027, which is the presumed end of the lease for Landover for FedEx Field. But Liz told us when she was on a few weeks ago, Liz Clark from the Washington Post, that they could potentially stay there beyond 2027. There's another part that I want to play real quickly, and that is the part where Bruce was asked about whether or not, you know, a general manager would be considered. you know, after Scott McLuhan left. I forget exactly how the question was asked, Aaron, but find that part.

I want to comment on what he said about Doug Williams, Alex Santos, and Kyle Smith. A few years since the departure of Scott McLuhan, is that general manager role, something that will get filled, or do you like the current power structure with Kyle and Eric and Doug and everybody in charge on the personnel side? We've got a lot of confidence in Doug and his entire department. And Alex running the pro department and Kyle running the, the college department. Doug doesn't want to negotiate contracts. That's not his forte. He's a great

leader of men, and he's got a super eye for talent, so we feel comfortable with our department right now. Can we talk about a few of the actual players then approaching free agency, Preston Smith, Crowder, Adrian Peterson. Have you guys started conversations with any of those guys? Eric has started some conversations. Usually those, as you know, heat up closer to the combine in that period. Maybe when other teams start to tamper. Other teams start to tamper. But he started some dialogue, but it's early in it.

Bruce, going back to something like the trade that you guys made for Alex, who are the people that are involved in that kind of decision? You know, the Alex trade was one of those. No-brainers. We first met with the coaching staff, the offensive coaching staff. And I believe Greg Minoski was in the meeting and talked about the different options. Last year, there was a lot of free agent quarterbacks who were going to be available. We talked about our current situation. And it was unanimous that they wanted Alex Smith. We met with the personnel department in the same way. And it was unanimous we wanted Alex Smith, but there was a problem. You had to be

to trade for Alex. He wasn't going to be a free agent. And we felt very fortunate that we were able to work out a trade for Alex. We're going back to the state. All right. So, I'm glad you took it to that next question because it all gets lumped in together. This was a stretch of the interview yesterday, in my view, where Bruce's intent was to make himself, to minimize himself as a decision maker when it comes to the roster and personnel. You know, very confident in Doug Williams, Alex Santos, on the pro side, Kyle Smith, who's the head of college scouting. Doug doesn't like to negotiate contracts.

It's not his forte. You know, Eric Schaefer does all of that. Doug's got a great eye for talent. And then it moves into the conversation about the Alex Smith trade, you know, and Bruce lays out the process that, you know, first of all, you know, we got together with the offensive coaching staff. And Greg Minoski was in that meeting. Why was Greg Minnowski in the meeting for a quarterback? Whatever. Um, but, you know, they were all told about the various options on quarterbacks and there were a lot of options last year. Uh, and they were

all in on Alex Smith. And then the personnel department, they wanted Alex Smith too. Now, there was no follow up there about the Doug Williams comments. Remember that he was caught off guard and caught by surprise and told not to answer any phone calls on the morning of January 31st or February 1st, whichever day that was that the trade happened, you know, just over 11 months, right around a year ago. Look, Bruce, this was, this is, I feel strongly about this. Bruce does not want you, me, or anybody to know how intimately he is involved in the roster, the management of this roster.

From trades to draft choices, to contract negotiation, et cetera. Look at all of the Tampa influence throughout coaching staff, roster, players, over the years. I don't believe that Bruce Allen is sitting down, breaking down film 24-7. I don't think he's got his own personal draft board, but I think he has significant. influence over this roster. And when he's throwing out all of these names that they're comfortable with, Doug and Alex and Kyle and Eric, you know, and then, you know, coaching staff, you know, he tries to turn this into this massive consensus, you know, building, you know, process.

Where everybody's involved. I'm just sort of organizing all of the pieces. I don't make the final decision. I think that Alex Smith trade, as I believe the Donovan McNabb trade and some of the bigger moves since he's been here, have been initiated and executed by him. I'm not suggesting he's doing it unilaterally without conversation, without meetings to discuss, but I would love to hear how influential he is and how hard he pitches. His preferred solution in these discussions. Right? So let's on Alex Smith. We met with the offensive coaching staff. If he's in there meeting with that offensive coaching staff and he's saying, you know,

Alex Smith did this and Alex Smith did that and this is why Alex Smith would be perfect. And this is why Teddy Bridgewater wouldn't or, you know, a draft choice wouldn't. You know, you've got an organization as we know that is, I don't know that it really inspires or breeds, you know, pushback. I don't think Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen are the kind of people that like to be pushed back on. I think that's why we've seen Joe Barry and Greg Minnowski as hires and Jay Gruden as a hire, you know, rather than another Mike Shanahan type. But this isn't the first time Bruce has done this.

I just find it interesting that when the conversation about a GM, or the need for a GM comes up, that he really pushes the, you know, group that he has and his minimal influence, if you will. He didn't say that. It's just what I believe he's trying to put into everybody's mind, that they have this department of Doug and Alex and Kyle and Eric. And that's the department.

They're the ones making the decisions on all the personnel things. Yet Doug William, didn't even know about the Alex Smith trade. I mean, now Doug Williams knew that Alex Smith was a possibility, but he didn't execute the trade, and maybe that's another thing that isn't Doug's forte. Maybe Doug isn't good at executing trades, and Bruce, you know, Bruce is the one that had the conversation with Andy Reid

in Kansas City and decided on compensation, etc. Anyway, that also is one of the reasons potentially, Greg Minusky was involved in some of these conversations because it would require trading a defensive player, which they did. They traded Kendall Fuller to get Alex Smith. All right, that's it. That's basically, you know, he talked a little bit about another spot later on. He talked about Doug and Alex really working on the free agent list. Like he's not involved in that. You know, there's, he'd love to completely make people believe and make his fan base believe, especially now. that he's not involved in anything.

But Bruce is intimately involved in a lot of these things. I'm not saying by himself, again, I'm not, you know, I'm not specifically saying that he's in there watching film and he's got his own draft board and he's got his own free agent board, but he has a large presence in the roster managing decision-making in this organization. I don't think there's any question about that. All right, let me tell you real quickly about Window Nation. Harley, Aaron, Eric, these are some of the best entrepreneurs you'll ever meet.

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plus 0% financing. Call Windonation at 86690 Nation or visit Windonation.com. That's 86690 Nation or Windonation.com and tell them that I sent you. All right, let's bring in someone who was there yesterday in Mobile. Michael Phillips does a phenomenal job covering the team for the Richmond Times Dispatch. He was there in Mobile for the Bruce Allen get together. A couple of things before we get to the specifics, Michael. Was there anything that was off limits?

Were there any conditions to this that Redskins PR put or Bruce said before, you know, the cameras and the recorders started to roll that he wasn't going to talk about? Or was it, you know, have at it, you guys could ask whatever you wanted to. It was have at it. The only thing we were told was it was to be done in the time between practices at the Senior Bowl, which is about however long the interview was, about 17 minutes. So we knew we were constrained in time by that, but there were no topics off. And I mentioned this earlier, and I'll mention it to your face.

I think you guys did a great job. I mean, it's a hard spot, you know, and there's so much there, and it's not one-on-one, and there is time constraint, and you don't want to turn him off early in the process and have it become antagonistic. And I think you guys did a really good job, and I think you covered virtually every topic that people wanted to hear from. What did you make of his disposition? Was he comfortable?

Was he poised? You've talked to him before. You've been in, I mean, it's been a while for everybody in terms of hearing from him. But what did you make of his overall personality going into this thing? Yeah, well, I compare him to a politician because he is from a family of politicians. And certainly family is very familiar with being. the public face of something or being out there. You know, he never struck me as anything less than fully confident when he talks.

I've never talked to him and even, you know, just one-on-one. Well, you know, I don't know about that. That's something we've got to think about. It's always been very certain, very, you know, not forceful, but, you know, he's kind of, he's very convicted about what he's saying. I felt like yesterday was that way as well. All right. Before we get to the specifics, if somebody didn't, you know,

hear it and they asked you to sum it up in 15 seconds or less, what would you say? Teams doing fine. A couple games out of the playoffs, just missed the playoffs, but a couple more good players and things are going to be all right. But seriously, if somebody asked you, hey, what did you learn from it? What was the big, you know, takeaway or two? What would you say? Yeah, yeah. To me, the takeaway was, you know, Bruce believes, by extent, the organization and Dan believes that they are on a positive trajectory. You know, we could scoff at that and say that's probably not true. But my number one takeaway was this is not an organization that is doing soul searching right now.

This is an organization that is moving forward with conviction on the path that they've charted. Yeah, I talked a little bit about that as well. All right, let's take these one at a time, almost in chronological order as they were presented yesterday during the interview. The Alex Smith stuff, he never said he is positive that Alex is going to be back or that he's bullish on his return. He just said if anybody could do it, it would be Alex. My takeaway from that was what everybody has sensed, and that is there's a good chance 2019 ain't going to happen if any point down the road is going to happen for Alex Smith. Did you hear it the same way? Well, yes, and with the things we know as well, we've pretty much written off week one at 2019 for sure.

I was intrigued when he said you'll see Alex around a lot for sure, which I didn't take to mean in a football capacity, but just that, you know, they plan on him being at the facility and part of the organization, and I don't know entirely what that looks like, but, you know, I think it would be easy to just part ways with him, but interesting that they're kind of keeping him under that umbrella. The Greg Minnowski stuff. One last one on Alex Smith. What is your guess? Will he ever play again and if so when?

Based on the things you've heard? I don't think he's ever going to play football again. All right, let's go to Greg Minoski. This was the first head turner, if there were any yesterday, that Greg Minnowski was involved in meetings with respect to defensive coordinator, searches. Were you buying it? How wild was that? Maybe he sat in on a meeting, I think, one logical, and this is just conjecture, but you

could guess that maybe Bowles had told them in advance, I'm not taking the job, but I'd be happy to give you guys a courtesy meeting, you know, just, you know, so it's just your goodwill, obviously, there's lots of ties with him in a franchise. Maybe Muskie's allowed to sit in on that because they're talking more about defensive principles than wooing a guy to, to, you know, be the defensive coordinator. I don't buy for a second that they weren't looking to replace him, but, you know, I don't think you have to be shy about that. You say, hey, performance wasn't good enough.

We looked to see what was out there, and we're going to stick with this guy, but if he doesn't produce, we're going to replace him next year. Yeah, my takeaway listening to it, and you were there was just Bruce never specifically said he was involved in the defensive coordinator, you know, meetings. I mean, Menoski, I mean, Manusky wasn't involved in those. I mean, I think he's been involved in the meetings to potentially replace Tori and Gray and Kirk Olivadati. You know, and that's what Bruce may have been referring to to get around that. It was, but who knows, there were parts of this that, you know, I wasn't buying and there were parts that were.

The head scratchers. Yeah, and there were parts that were, you know, delusional, and you've already hit on it. So let's get to that. And that is this notion that they are close. We're close. You know, we're seven and nine. We're close to being better. We're in the middle of the pack, but we're close to being better.

What was your complete, just your thoughts on that whole section of the interview? Sure. And, you know, I don't think it's unfair for, you know, in a vacuum to say seven and nine team has room to make the playoffs and has room to improve. But I think that, you know, you need to look at the surrounding, you know, circumstances here. your quarterback is not coming back for next year and you're absorbing the salary cap. The quarterbacks you have on the roster aren't good enough, period. I think Colt probably could be good enough if he wasn't such an injury liability. You've got an injury-prone team.

You've got holes at key positions. Potentially your best wide receiver is about to leave in free agency. And you've got a defense that got significantly worse over the course of the year, even though they were not impacted by injuries. So I think when you add all those things up, I personally think the long-term prognosis here is very negative for this team. Bruce sees it differently. I understand why he sees it differently. But I guess when you tell the fan base that, when you tell the fan base we're right there, you got to be there next year.

Now you've got to deliver a playoff berth next year because you've told them to expect that. You know, if I were the GM or president, I would come out and say, we might be two years, away, we've got a plan, here's our plan. Just know this. We are aware of this. We're working on it. We've got very far people coming up with a plan to get us there. But when you say, we're on the verge of being there, now you've got to actually be on the verge of getting there. I don't see that happening for them next year. Yeah, it's a big stretch. This is the part where, and you said it, you referred to it, and I have as well, that, you know, inside that building out there in Ashburn, There is a major detachment from, you know, reality and reality with respect to its fan base, too, in terms of what its fan base thinks.

But when he says they're close, you know, he doesn't, there's not even a thought in his mind that seven and nine that he's two games out of a wild card birth. You know, the last year, you know, he said he was a game out last year. It was four games out last year. I mean, he may have forgotten that, but they needed to go 11 and 5 because he would have lost a tie break. with Atlanta at 10 and 6. You know, so they were four games out of a wildcard spot last year. And we know what happened the year before that at 8, 7, and 1 on the final game of the year. That was close.

You know, they were a drive away from their second consecutive playoff birth, but the last two years, and, you know, you can chalk it up to injuries, and injuries have been a factor. You know, they're not an excuse. They've been a reality, but they've been moving further away. from where they were two years ago. It's an interesting perspective because, you know, what Bruce says is kind of our closest window into what Dan believes. Right. Because, you know, Bruce is as close to Dan as anybody.

And that, you know, the fact that Bruce is still in charge says that Dan is, if not outright, believing this, at least a believer in a portion of this. And so, you know, the things Bruce says, yes, we're breaking it down and we're really heavily scrutinized. it, but there's a reason for that, and the reason is, you know, this is the closest we've got to knowing how the owner thinks about this football team. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that leads perfectly into this next part where, you know, he talked about the, you know, the fans that came that didn't want to come out to see the Eagles win, which is completely delusional.

They hadn't been out there all year, you know, including the home opener where they barely were able to attract just over 50,000 for a home opener on a beautiful day as a one-and-o football team. Your sense of the business, the revenue piece of their organization, are they aware of just how much their fan base has eroded? Or do you believe they still think it's just sitting there waiting for them to be healthy next year? I think I would file that one under delusional more so than any of the others maybe because, you know, I asked about lots of meaning, so I don't want to talk about that,

but, you know, the people we've got in place now really know how to get the fan-based site, you know, they're really going to sell some tickets. Well, the people they have now are the people they had two years ago. And the only difference in attendance two years ago and last year was that they lied about it. You know, you remember those games were not full two years ago. Those were not sellouts. They were just lying and saying they were. So any notion that, well, we sold them out two years ago, those people are back in charge.

We'll sell them out again. Well, sure, you can lie about it. again, but that doesn't mean the fans will be there. Was there any moment that you think he was upset or angry or, you know, off put at all by any of the questions? Yeah, I think it was probably Adam Kilgore's question. Essentially, why are you the person to turn this organization around, that last one? You know, I think that there's, you know, delusions a word we've come back to a lot, but, you know, he believes,

he's doing a great job and he believes the organization is doing a great job. I don't think he's putting on a show. I think they really honestly believe they're killing it. They're doing a great job right now. And so I think that question kind of punctures the notion of that and maybe even a little bit of frustration of why don't you guys understand what we understand, which is things are awesome here. Yeah, and the answer about their passion is fantastic.

shares in their passion and they just want to win really, really misses the point that the fan base wants to win, but they want him out more than anything right now. And I don't, you know, it's, look, how people react to being under siege and personally attacked by their consumers, you know, is, you know, everybody probably reacts differently, but I think there was a bit of a window into that, you know, they just believe. believe that if they can just stay healthy and get to the playoffs as a nine and seven team, all will be well. And Bruce's whole life is football. He's wrapped up in this. He can't take this anything but personally because this is what he does. I'm curious about the Dan element of

it as well. And, you know, some people have hinted that maybe he's withdrawn a bit in the sense of just whether it's resignation or detachment or, you know, trying not to associate himself with this siege, but really, you know, and what's probably an unhealthy way for an NFL team owner to do. Yeah, you know, and you just made me think of something that I talked about earlier as well. I thought another interesting part from the interview was where Bruce, and he's done this before, he really makes it a point to try to make people believe that he is just overseeing these wonderful, you know, scouts and does. and Alex and Kyle and Eric Schaefer and, you know, and when it comes to the Alex Smith trade,

you know, it was, you know, this huge consensus building process with the offensive coaching staff and then the personnel department. You know, it's a very subtle way of trying to make people believe that he's not as influential as he is. It's, he didn't use my favorite phrase yesterday, which is it's a Redskins decision. Right, right. who is final control. Oh, that's a Redskins decision. That's kind of code for that as a Bruce decision. Yeah. Any other news out of Mobile?

Coaching staff news, players that they're interested in news, anything. They met with almost all the quarterbacks and are continuing meetings and probably will meet with all the quarterbacks. I think we're all taking it for granted at this point. A quarterback's coming either at 15 or, you know, via trade, whether that's trade-up up in the first round or trade into late first round, early second round. I think we probably all instinctively knew that, but, you know, just reading the tea leaves here, a quarterback's coming, and I think that that's probably, you know, in their mind,

the right thing to reinvigorate the fan base, but it's also unquestionably the right thing for the football team to get a quarterback in here on a rookie contract to ease that, that Alex Smith cap hit that continues to linger. JP reported yesterday that Bill Callahan's under contract and should be back, according to Bruce. That wasn't, I don't think, in the part of the interview that we heard. Are you hearing the same thing? Because I still would personally be surprised if Bill Callahan is back. You know, I asked Bruce about that as we were walking off.

You know, I saw Callahan and Tom Zula. And on Callahan, he's under contract, he'll be back. So I don't know if that's a hostage negotiation or what. I could tell you, Bruce's view is there's a contract. They want him. He will be back. You know, I don't know if he being Callahan. I don't know if Callahan shares those necessarily warm, fuzzy desires to be back.

We'll put it that way. But, yeah, I got the sense. Bruce didn't see this playing out any other way. Then we have him under contract. He will be honoring that. You know, it's a really, it's another one of those awkward situations, and they're professionals and their competitors, and, you know, hopefully it just, you know, basically slides off their back and they move on and they,

and they perform. But, you know, the Minusky situation is a bit awkward, and the Callahan situation, and I've been hearing this for months, has been awkward with him being there, that it's not a good fit for him. It's not a good fit for the other coaches and him. And if he comes back, because he's under, contract and is being, you know, forced to come back, even though he potentially wants to go to Cincinnati or another place. It just doesn't seem like it's the right fit. But then again,

in this particular organization right now, who will they hire to replace him? Who wants that job? Word gets around in the NFL. It's a tight-knit circle of guys. And, you know, I had thought one of the things they had done really well was in keeping Jay, giving Jay the extension, whether you agree or disagree with that. It sent the message to the rest of football were not the old Redskins that are going to hire you and fire you in two years. I thought on that alone, they potentially set themselves up when they hire the next coach to be able to say, we'll give you five years, and we mean it.

And we have a track record now of having done that. But then when you do things like this with the assistant coaches, that's a statement as well. work gets around on that as well. Michael, thanks. Always love catching up with you. Appreciate it. Hopefully we'll talk soon. Yes, sir. Aaron, I want to go back to what Michael mentioned, the one part where he thinks Bruce may have been a little bit, you know, uncomfortable or not necessarily happy. It was probably the last question of that avail yesterday. And he said it was Adam Kilgore that asked it. I think he said it was Adam Kilgore. All right. So if you can find that and play it. I want to mention, I want people to hear that since we didn't play it before.

Given the record under your tenure, given the fan just content right now, why do you think you're the right person to lead the organization going forward? Why by the right person? I share their passion for this franchise. I share the passion for the things that we can accomplish and we're going to get this whole organization believing in it. Uh, yeah. There was more to it, wasn't there? There was a question or two earlier that was, but that was the last one. Anyway, you know, remember the last time he was under siege for his winning off the field comments,

you know, in the Jason Reed, Bruce Allen, you know, end of 2014 exchange before they hired McLuhan. He acted on that, and he hired McLuhan. It's probably not what he wanted to do, but there was also a relationship there with, you know, McLuhan's father. And McLuhan was available. He was available because of the issues that he had had. I think Bruce does know that he is, you know, part of the fan base ire and the target of the fan base right now. There's just not a move there to be made. There's not a move to be made without him really giving up, you know,

meaningful control. You know, McLuhan did not have the control we thought he had when he was hired. McLuhan was really brought in to oversee the draft more than anything else. That was his area of expertise. He even told us that, you know, at some point during his short tenure. Anyway, that's that. I would encourage all of you, if you haven't seen it, watch it. You know, sometimes you just pick up on body language things. Bruce was Bruce was Bruce. Bruce. You you know, and everybody, you know, Michael Phillips said it, that he was, you know, in that political, you know, deflect, pivot, you know, mode of not really directly answering questions all the time. And in some cases, he did. But those weren't the ones that hurt. All right. There were a few things that I wanted to get to

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Ferishcars.com for everything you need to know about Farish. That includes live pricing, live inventory, and best deals at ferrishcars.com. And if you head out there, remember, ask for Ralph Perkins. Ralph is a friend of mine. He runs the dealership. He's in the store virtually every day, and he will connect you with their best salesperson. All right, a couple things I want to get to that we haven't touched on yet. But Gary Braun, who's a good friend of mine from the Tony Cornerhizer show, many of you know Gary.

Gary's actually really smart, big sports fan. We talk a lot about this stuff all the time. And he tweeted out something yesterday that interested me. It was actually a retweet of a Steinberg tweet. I had no idea that John Clayton was writing for the post. I didn't. But apparently John Clayton, he's a Hall of Fame writer. He's in the Hall of Fame, John Clayton is.

He did a mock draft where he had Kyler Murray going 15. to the Redskins in the first round mock. And Kerry tweeted out or retweeted the story and said, and then decides to eschew football for baseball. Ladies and gentlemen of Redskins Nation, meet Rock Bottom. Hashtag you heard it here first. This is spot on. You have to, when you're the Washington Redskins right now,

even put aside the toxic nature of the organization as it is right now currently. and has been for a long time. The name issue alone, I would think, and maybe I am wrong about this, but I would think in the interviews of top flight draft choices that have choices, like a Kyler-Marie baseball is an option, that you've got to find out where they stand on the name, don't you? You have to find out that you cannot be put into a position where you're caught blindsided drafting somebody who says, I will not play for that racist organization. Somebody's going to say it one of these days. They're going to sign a free agent or they're going to draft a player high

and somebody's going to say it one of these days. Maybe they do try to find out from the agent. It's as easy as asking the agent, hey, does your dude have any issues with the name? It's something we're in a position of needing to ask just to make sure we're not caught off guard. Maybe it's as simple as that. Wasn't there a conversation when Bradford came out that that might be a thing? Yeah, because Bradford had some Native American heritage and blood. I don't remember exactly how that played out, that there was a sense that Bradford would have a problem playing for the Redskins,

but the Redskins weren't in position to draft him anyway, right, as it turned out. But anyway, the Kyler Murray thing, he's got baseball. I mean, he wouldn't even need to say it if it were an issue. And I'm not even suggesting that would be an issue. I have no idea whether it would be an issue. But the baseball thing, he may just say, I don't want to play for that team. I don't want to be in that organization. I wanted someone else to draft me.

Well, look at what happened with Bo Jackson. Yeah, exactly. So there's all of that. These are the things that you've got to consider. I mean, look, when there's a baseball football opportunity, it doesn't matter which organization you are. That's a question you have to ask. If we take you, are you going to play football?

Like, you've got to know that before you take them. But it would be just like the Redskins to draft him. And then he say, I'm not playing for them. I'm going to go play for the A's. I'm going to go play baseball. A couple of other things from the NFL. You saw that Andy Reid fired Bob Sutton and that Rex Ryan, apparently, is a candidate to be the defensive coordinator. Yeah, I've seen Steve Segnolo's name also heavily considered there.

Has he worked with Steve before? Yeah, they were in Philadelphia, right? Yeah, they were in Philadelphia together. Did Steve replace Jim John? Johnson when Johnson passed away? I'm not sure exactly what the order was. Okay. They were there at the same time and have the same agent, apparently.

So, look, they, it's, I mentioned yesterday or the day before in the podcast. I've always wondered why Andy Reid hasn't gone after, you know, a bona fide, you know, top flight defensive coordinator. He, Sutton's been an object of the fans in Kansas City for a while now. Like, they've always felt as a fan base they could do better. and apparently Andy Reid believes it now as well. There was another story that came out late yesterday about the Cowboys. Cole Beasley, who is on the verge of being an unrestricted free agent,

said that the team's front office pushes, quote, pushes who gets the ball on offense. Quote, honestly, the front office pushes who they want to get the ball to. I haven't been a huge priority in that regard. Maybe that will change, but I'm not sure. more balls come my way in two-minute drill when there's nothing planned. That's what he wrote. He also said, doesn't mean I'm gone. I'll play anywhere where I can make more of an impact.

I would love that to be in Dallas. I just want the ball. And it's hard with three to four opportunities a game. Look, that can be one of those things where he's just upset that he doesn't get enough targets. Man, when he's healthy and he plays, he's a legit weapon, you know, for them. We didn't mention this, but they did fire Scott Linnehan late last week. So they are currently in the market right for an offensive coordinator. They haven't replaced him yet.

I don't think they have, Linnehan, the Cowboys. I don't think they've replaced him yet. A lot of friends of mine who are cowboy fans, you know, they don't want Jason Garrett back, but Garrett is back, but they definitely, you know, that's a more debatable subject than Linnehan. Linahan's been number one, get rid of him, he's horrible, for several years. running. So you've got that. I also wanted to follow up on a couple of things from the last couple of days. Tommy and I got into an argument yesterday about Sean Payton's play calling, you know,

when they got the big play down to the 13-yard line in a tie game late. And, you know, Tommy said, oh, it was terrible. No, it wasn't terrible. Look, this is, you know, I should have, we, we argued about it for a while. I'm not going to tell him who to vote for the Hall of Fame, and he shouldn't be telling me how to handle the clock at the end of games. Of course, I say that half, half in jest. But a good friend of mine, a cowboy fan, Ken texted me last night, and he said, Kevin, that's head coaching 101. You run the ball, drain the clock, and the timeouts, and you kick the field goal. No, you don't in that situation. Guys, it's not kid coaching one-on-one. Best case is it's a debatable subject. It is a debatable subject. If he had run the ball

three times and gotten them to use both of their remaining timeouts and left the Rams with a minute left needing three in the Superdome with Greg Zerline as the kicker, I wouldn't have argued that that was a horrible decision, but I know, and I have a sense that Sean Peyton had the same sense I did in the moment, which is you got to score touch-touch. here. You got to go get a touchdown. The timeouts are immaterial. There's going to be a minute left with Greg Zerline. If you're only up three, that's plenty of time for the Rams to get in field goal range. Plenty of time. Draining them of their final two timeouts for a field goal was not to me coaching 101. It just wasn't. It was a totally debatable

subject on how he handled it at best. I think he did the right thing. I think he was thinking, I need to score a touchdown because I can do the math. And Sean Payton's pretty good at this stuff. Sean Payton's been pretty good at clock management. He's one of the better coaches at doing it. I think he did the math. And he said, okay, I can leave him with a minute and no timeouts up three. I don't want to do that. I want to go score a touchdown and take a 2720 lead. And if they have timeouts left, so be it. They've got to score a touchdown. Or I want to pick up a first down.

There was still a chance that they could have picked up a first down, and then they could have drained the clock and kicked a walk-off field goal. It is not just the – it's not that I'm saying that it was 100% the right thing to do. What I'm saying really is it was a debatable thing. Anybody that says it's coaching 101 does not understand this aspect of the game. and didn't understand the context of the game, which is the Rams can get 30 yards or 25 yards in a minute for Greg Zerline. I mean, this dude can kick from, that field goal from 57 would have been good from 70. Trust me, Sean Payton knew that a minute with no timeouts wasn't going to be a massive preventative to overtime to them getting in field goal range.

He wanted the touchdown and a 2720 lead. I'm totally, totally a supporter of that management of the end of that game. I was thinking the same thing after the past again. First and 10 at the Rams 13. Dude, you've got to score touchdown here if you're going to win the game. And keep in mind, for me in the moment, because I had the under and I had the Rams, I wanted them to kick a field goal. I wanted it to go to overtime at 2323.

But I had done the math in my head and determined that, you know, draining their final two timeouts by running the ball wasn't a good strategy there. Not in that game. Not yesterday. Not Sunday. Not Greg Zerline inside with the Rams ability to really all they needed was 30 yards for a field goal attempt. 30 yards in a minute is nothing without timeouts. Nothing. I think he did the right thing.

And I think there was also the possibility by throwing it. that they could have gotten eight yards, run it on the next play, gotten a first down without scoring the touchdown, and then you could have kicked your walk-off field goal. One other thing I wanted to quickly get to. Somebody tweeted me about my conversation the other day about the Redskins 49ers championship game after the 83 season, January of 84,

and said that I got the two penalties on the final drive mixed up. I did, and I apologize for that. the lot hold on Charlie Brown came late in the drive, and it was the penalty that ensured that the Redskins were going to have a field goal attempt under a minute left to win the game. Mosley, by the way, I didn't mention this the other day, was 0 for four on field goals before the game winner. But if you go back and that game exists on YouTube, the 49ers Redskins' 1983 NFC championship game, there are just two horrendous calls that essentially set up the Redskins' ability to kick a field goal to win the game with under a minute to go.

Bill Walsh, as an aside, terrible job managing the clock. I went back and watched this yesterday after I got the tweet from somebody that said I got mixed up. It was the interference on Eric Wright that came first, terrible interference call, and then the hold on Ronnie Lott that came after. I said that the lot hold came first. But the thing that I recognized in watching it, Bill Walsh was terrible calling timeouts. Joe Montana should have had a minute and a half left.

down three, 24-21. Instead he got it back with about 36 seconds left because Walsh, one of the greatest coaches in NFL history, didn't call his timeouts fast enough on defense or at the right point on defense. I think back then coaches just weren't great at that stuff, and it wasn't really an emphasis for whatever reason. Go watch that game. It's an interesting game to watch. Also, one more thing. Some of you have asked about Super Bowl trivia, something I've done on the radio show for years during Super Bowl week next week. I'm still thinking about how to do that because we don't really take calls. We have the ability to take calls, but you wouldn't be able to hear the questions and call in. Well, actually, that wouldn't matter. All you got to do is team up,

right? We could actually do that. Yeah, we can do it. We can do it next week. So we will Keep your eye on Twitter. We will do some Super Bowl trivia next week, and I'll just tweet out when you can call in. And we can come up with any prize that we want to. We have no restrictions in the podcast world that I know of. Anyway, all right, let's get to the Caps. They have lost now six games in a row after they're lost last night to San Jose. All right, let's bring in Greg Wyshinsky, who's a senior NHL writer at ESPN,

one of my favorite guests when we talk hockey over the years on the radio show and now on the podcast. Caps lost last night, seven to six in overtime, gave up a goal very late to San Jose. They are now in the midst of a six-game losing streak. Greg, what's wrong with the Caps right now? Well, I think last night was indicative of the trend this season, which is a bit of a decline defensively. I don't think anybody expected the Washington Capitals who have been a tight systemic group. you know, in previous seasons under Barry Trotson, one assumed that we continue under Todd Reardon,

especially due to his defensive pedigree, to be 20th in the league right now in goals against average, which is where they, we find them. And you look at the teams behind them, we're talking about teams like the Edmonton Oilers and the Detroit Red Wings and the Philadelphia Flyers and the Ottawa Senators. I mean, you know, this is not the neighborhood you expect the capitals to be in. So that's a bit of a concern for sure.

But I think these are correctable things going forward, If you're going to go through a dip, let the dip happen in January rather than in April. Why are they worse defensively? And, you know, the number of goals they've given up here in the last, you know, three of the last four games anyway. They've given up 22 goals and three of the last four games seems to be alarming. Like it's not, you know, they're not losing five, three games. They're losing seven, six, eight to five, seven to two. Right, yeah.

I mean, these things tend to kind of snowball on you sometimes and get out of hand. I mean, one thing to consider is how wacky of the league's been overall as far as offense the season, where we are seeing more of these games. And there's having to be this sort of overall recalibration of what we expect defensively from a lot of teams. I mean, you look at the average save percentage in this league right now. Three years ago, that number would have indicated a goalie having a horrific year. and now it's kind of the new normal, right? So a lot of these scores are just things that we're seeing throughout the league.

But I don't know. I mean, it's sort of a lack of cohesion defensively. It's maybe not getting the same kind of big saves that they've got in the past. And I'm sure it's, you know, the thing that we all know about this team is that when you do get a coaching change, there are going to be some benefits to that and there are going to be some drawbacks to that. And maybe, you know, it's Todd Reardon kind of taking his lumps as a first year. guy after having an accomplished veteran coach in there that might be more of a studying presence during rough sailing like this.

You just mentioned something. Why are safe percentages being impacted this year? Why are they lower than they've typically been this year? There's a lot of theories about that. I mean, one of the theories, obviously, is that we are just in a very offensive era right now in the NHL, the inability of defending players to really kind of play the same sort of physical style, not only because the league is faster, just but also because the rules have been altered to the point where you can no longer obstruct and do the things that would

have slowed down offensive players in the past. There's also a theory that maybe, you know, the changes, subtle as they are to gualtening equipment, have come home to roost. and the goalies aren't necessarily being able to, in the words of a lot of critics, make saves that they shouldn't be making with their equipment. There's a lot of reasons for it, but I mean, these are sort of the evidence flows of this league sometimes where we go through eras of incredible offense and, you know, having these talented guys do their thing, and then we dial it back for a few years and go through more of a defensive era.

But right now, I mean, we're in a multi-year trend of goals per game. on the rise and with the incredible amount of talent that seems to be coming up and everybody sees between the ages of like 18 and 24. It doesn't look like it's going to add anytime soon. So Barry Trotz has the Islanders in first place in the division in which the capitals reside, which is interesting. And he came in here over the weekend and beat the caps two to nothing. As we approach the All-Star break, what is the one or two, what are the one or two things that you think the caps have missed without Barry Trots, if anything? Well, I mean, I think once you take out, because this is the thing about the Islanders, right?

It's not simply just Barry Trots. It's Elaine Lambert. It's much corn. It's the whole, you know, traveling Barry Trots parade that follows him from city to city. And I think that when you put all of those guys and that brain trust and then also a guy like Lula Marillo as a top in New York as well into an organization, there's a lot of adults in that room. There's a lot of guys that know what they're doing, and a lot of guys that are going to be able to diagnose problems

and correct problems pretty well. And in the Islanders case, obviously, the biggest issue was defense. The biggest issue was goaltending, and they seem to have rectified that problem to the point where the Islanders has incredibly the best state percentage in the league this season. So, you know, what the capital is missing,

I think, are guys that have, you know, been in this position before, have seen a lot. and that when you go through a funk can maybe, you know, diagnose things. And then also a system with trots that clearly can shut things down and play more of a defensive style if necessary. If you're going through a series of games, you're giving up too many goals. So it's a sea change. And this isn't to demean Todd Reardon or anything. I mean, I think Reardon is going to be a really good head coach.

But I think it is, you know, important to remember that, you know, you learn on the job sometimes. and there were things as a head coach that you didn't have to deal with as an assistant coach. And it's a process. But I think from all accounts, he's the kind of guy that's going to be able to figure this thing out. The reports, I guess, before the game last night, there were a couple of them, that there were either one, potentially as many as two team meetings, you know, in the midst of this losing streak of five games prior to last night. What do you make of those things overall?

They're healthy. I mean, I never get too concerned. about team meetings and things like that. Because I think that it shows the maturity of this group to try to get together and get on the same page and error problems in that setting and kind of see where guys are. So I don't think that's, you know, it's systemic of a losing streak, but I don't think it's any reason to read anything more into it than that. But again, the thing about the capitals, that's interesting, is that, and this has happened a couple times in recent NHL history, I think the Boston Bruins would be a good example when they won the cup. This is pretty much the same group. I mean, it is remarkable the consistency on this roster from year to year.

You don't often see it in a league with a salary cap, but the capals have it. And maybe, you know, you start to wonder whether or not that kind of consistency, you can be a lot. lead to complacency, if you start to wonder if whether or not, you know, the same kind of infusion of different faces that we saw prior to last season that had such an important and, you know, kind of roster-changing effect, let's call it, on the team with all those young players kind of invigorating them, the practices and pushing guys in the lineup, like maybe a little competition's healthy, maybe a few new faces in the room is healthy. and maybe the formula wasn't to necessarily make sure that the same band comes back together for a follow-up season.

Alex Ovechkin last night had his third hat trick of the season, 23rd of his career. Put this particular season he's in the midst of in his overall career perspective. Where does it rank right now in your mind? Well, I don't know where it ranks necessarily because we're only halfway through it. I mean, so you assume that Ovechkin's going to stay healthy, but one never knows. But, I mean, as far as his offensive output goes, from a points-per-game perspective, you're looking at something that he hasn't done since 2010 in a full 82 game season. So, I mean, it is a pretty amazing pace.

And, you know, the thing about Opie that I find to be really impressive is just this sort of awareness and recognition of of where he is in his career. You know, the fact that he is older, but still being able to do this, the fact that he has any number of younger guys that are, you know, trying to snatch away his crown as the leading goal score in this league and kind of, you know, using that as motivation, and he's talked about it before, using that as motivation to try to stay on top as the leading goal scorer in the NHL.

And, you know, it's, I think a lot of us know it would be easy at this point for him, the rest of the laurels, me, for goodness sake, you finally slayed the dragon last year. But to have 36 goals in 49 games at this point of the season is just a remarkable feat. All right. This is what I do as a non, you know, passionate hockey fan during the regular season. I love it during the postseason. But I look at the standings every day, Greg.

And I try to see where the caps sort of fit in. And I'm surprised because when the season started, there was this sense that this may be a better team this year than it was last year. And yet, you've got two teams in the Eastern Conference, one in particular that appears to be a dominant team in Tampa. Where do they stack up in the East? I still think that the Islanders will come back to Earth a little bit after the Ball Star break. I mean, the idea that they are going to be able to maintain that the defensive metrics

that they've had this season, I think is a bit much to ask. and I think the capitals obviously are going through soon right now and to easily cycle back up. So I believe that they'll end up winning the division and getting that top seed against the wild card team in the first round. The wild card team could end up being Pittsburgh, which would be a heck of a thing. But, you know, there's a clear separation, I think, at this point

in the east between Tampa Bay and everybody else. I know that they took a loss against Toronto recently that, you know, opened up some eyes. But, you know, you talk about our wrong. roster that on paper is stacked, that on the ice has actualized as being dominant, a great goaltender, you know, a collection of offensive stars. And also, you know, that awesome construction that you want to see from a championship team like the Capitol's had last year, that, you know, you've got a number of skill guys that, that's scary, but then you also have a lot of grunts

that due to the heavy left team when we need to be. They've got that too. So they're just an extraordinarily well-put-together team. And this was the year that they've targeted to make a cup run, and they don't look like they're falling short of those expectations. I mean, we know that sometimes it doesn't really play out the way you think it will in the postseason. It's an incredibly unpredictable postseason this sport is. But you think Tampa's better. Is Toronto better than Washington? I don't think in a seven-game play-out series, I would take the Leafs over the Capitals. and for a couple of reasons.

I mean, first off, I think the capitals, once they get into the tournament, are going to be a very good playout team without the usual psychological damage we've come to know them for. I think that winning the Cup takes a lot of that off the table. And when push comes to shove, I would take them in a seven-game series against a lot of teams. But the other thing, too, is that Toronto just isn't there quite there yet defensively. They're a goaltender, Freddie Anderson, who, you know, we've seen before against a lot of, the capitals in the postseason. He's quite good, but he has to do a lot of heavy lifting. And I think the blue line for this team isn't quite where it's, it needs to be to be on a

championship level. They ask a lot of Morgan Riley. They ask a lot of a lot of guys that I think aren't necessarily on a championship level quite yet. So they've still got some construction to do on the back end, but from a forward perspective, I mean, man, they go, they go three lines deep and the ability of guys like John, you know, to have John Tavares and Austin Matthews on the ice for, you know, plus the 45 minutes a game is an advantage that few teams have. Yeah, and the caps get them here coming up tonight before the All-Star break. Last one, and I'll let you run. Do you anticipate the caps trying to make any moves prior to the trade deadline? I think they have to. You know, I've seen Andre Bearkoski's name kind of come up

before as far as, you know, potentially being shipped out, restricted. free agent. I think there's a market for him. I think that if the capitals wanted to bring in a veteran player into their top nine, he's an interesting, you know, a chip that they can play. But I do think that Brian McClellan knows that, you know, having seen this sort of fumbling and stumbling in the last few weeks, that maybe adding a piece or two at the deadline to fortify this team and to at least maybe add another voice or another face of that room to shake up the formula a little bit, I think is a good thing going forward. And there's a lot of options.

It's a pretty strong rental market. There's unfortunately going to be a lot of buyers, I think, versus sellers. But it could be anywhere from, you know, just a veteran hand that they can use in their bottom six to something more extravagant, like potentially a Wayne Simmons from the Philadelphia Flyers. so I think would be an interesting addition on several fronts for this team. So we'll see where they go. But I mean, I don't think that I necessarily have any level of panic right now. I mean, even with this stumble that they've had,

they're still, you know, within three points of the top spot in the division, and I think it's theirs a day. Thanks. I always love catching up with you. You're a phenomenal guest. Really appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it. Two, one. Three, two, one. All right. Thanks to Greg Wasinski. The Hall of Fame stuff, we'll get to with Tommy. Tommy's going to call in tomorrow. I want to save that and have that conversation with him.

I think everybody that got in, Tommy voted for. Yes. I'm pretty sure everybody that got in was he voted for. Tommy's a Hall of Fame baseball voter. So we'll talk to him about that tomorrow. That's it. J.P. Finley, maybe later on in the week, get his perspective on the Bruce Allen interview. But I think we covered it pretty much, you know,

front to back today. We gave you all of the important parts, hopefully and some thoughts on them. Sorry for getting the podcast out a little bit later today. Back tomorrow, enjoy the day.