The Kevin Sheehan Show - Bucks & Bucs

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

Kevin today with a recap of the Bucks' NBA Championship close-out win over the Suns. Kevin talked about an NFL analyst who believes Washington is 2nd only to the Bucs in the NFC. Long-time NFL Exec Andrew Brandt joined the show to talk Aaron Rodgers and weigh-in on the WFT.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. It's over. The Bucks have done it. The long wait has ended after a half century.

The Milwaukee Bucks are NBA champions once again. And the NBA season, which many of you aren't totally unhappy about, has finally come to an end. In thrilling fashion, in historic fashion. when you consider the Janus Atenticompo close-out individual performance last night in Milwaukee. On the show today, me and Andrew Brandt will join us. Andrew, of course, the longtime Packers team president and league executive. I wanted to get Andrew on the show to talk about the Aaron Rogers situation.

And we'll get his thoughts on the Washington football team as well. but Andrew Brandt will be on this show with us in a little bit. But I do want to start with the NBA finals. Last night was really quite the individual show that Janus put on. It was an historic performance for sure, 50 points, 14 rebounds, five block shots in the game. Incredible defense all night long, and Milwaukee closes out Phoenix, 105-98 to win the series, four games to two. Many people calling it the greatest close-out NBA finals game in history by anybody. It was great. It's up there. It wasn't Magic Johnson from 1980. Magic's performance

in Game 6 in the spectrum in Philadelphia when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was out, didn't even make the trip. And Magic as a rookie lined up at center and scored 42 points, had 15 rebound, seven assists. that's the greatest close-out in the most iconic performance in NBA finals history in terms of a close-out game. He was a rookie. It was on the road against that loaded 76ers team without the captain in Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. But that aside, what a game by Yonis last night. And I'll start this segment by just talking a little bit about the game in general. First of all, you start with Yonis. and the performance, and you can look at the 50 points and the 14 rebounds and the five block shots, and you know the kind of game he played in 42 minutes last night. He was sensational. But the difference

in the game last night was 17 of his 50 points came from the free throw line on just 19 attempts. Janice was struggling throughout the postseason shooting free throws. This was a major problem for him, and he had his best free throw night of the postseason, 89 and a half percent from the line, 17 of 19. In game five, he was 4 for 11, 36.4%. In game 4, he was 4 for 8. You know, this was a guy that had actually started to shoot free throws better in this series than he had against the Hawks or against the Nets or even Miami.

Actually, I think he was decent against Miami. but this was a major problem for Milwaukee. Was Janice at the free throw line? And if Yonis had a good night for him in the postseason last night, call it 10 of 19, just over 50%, which would have been good for him in this postseason. In the last series, he shot 49.1%. In the Brooklyn series, he shot 42.5% from the free throw line.

So if he has a normal 2021 playoff free throw line percentage for him and he goes 10 of 19, taken literally, you're in overtime. You know, depending on how the game plays out, maybe Phoenix wins. That was the big difference in the game last night. There were several things about the game that I want to mention here, but him going 17 of 19 from the free throw line in the biggest game of his career, it was clutch. The 50 and 14 is debatably the greatest game he's ever played. he's had a lot of great regular season games, and he's had some great playoff games.

Remember, in game seven, when Durant was going for 49 in the Brooklyn series, he went for 40 and 13 on the road in a 7th and deciding game. That game, to me, being the most compelling game of the postseason, the 115-11 overtime game 7 against Brooklyn, where Kevin Durant had an all-time performance himself. But 17 of 19, you start there because the 50 and 14 is all time. You know, it's way up there. But he got to 50 because he was 17 of 19 from the free throw line. If he had been 10 of 19 or 9 of 19, like he had been throughout the postseason, he ends up with 41 points or 40 points. And they may lose that game and they may be heading back to Phoenix for a 7th.

and deciding game. He was great. There's no doubt about it. He got some help, not the kind of help that I thought he would get. Drew Holliday, phenomenal defensively, as he's been. He was this, he and Middleton obviously were the two players that have been right there with the Honest throughout this postseason. Holiday, very streaky offensively. He was 12 of 20 in the last game, last night, 4 of 19, but his defense constant. Middleton didn't have a great game offensively. You know, you would have thought going into it, They need Middleton to really be there because the attention will be on Janus. Middleton, six of 13, 17 points.

Five turnovers in the game. His defense, though, was outstanding. I thought Brooke Lopez and Bobby Portis were huge for Milwaukee last night. Brooke Lopez in the third quarter, when Janice went for 20 of the team's 35 in the third quarter, Brooke Lopez had big time shots in that quarter. ended up with 10 points, eight rebounds in 27 minutes on 5 of 10 from the floor. Lopez doing it sort of in crafty fashion around the rim and then a power dunk with some of his length. And, you know, look, Brooke Lopez has been a really good player in this league.

Let's not forget that. You know, Brooke Lopez has averaged many times during the course of his career well over 20 points per game. And I thought he was outstanding. and, you know, the guy that Milwaukee and Milwaukee fans fell in love with during this postseason, Bobby Portis really came up big. Former Wizard, briefly a wizard. He was in the game for 23 minutes and scored 16 points on 6 of 10 from the floor, two of five from behind the arc. That was, to me, the key for Milwaukee beyond the free throw shooting from Atticumpo, and that was Lopez and Portis's contributions. They essentially combined for 26 points, 11 rebounds from that center position.

Obviously, Janus plays a lot of center himself on different possessions. But the Bucks played well. Now, flip it to the other side, Phoenix. I thought it was just a terrible night for Devin Booker. And really a shame, look, he is young and he is on the rise. At 24 years old, Devin Booker is going to be a future you know, top five-ish, you know, no worse than top-tenth-ish kind of player in the league. He had a rough night after putting together back-to-back games of 42 and 40 in this series. And maybe, you know, taking some criticism for not really distributing the ball or making that key pass in games five and games four, last night I thought he deferred way too much.

He still led the team in total field goal attempts, but I thought Booker really shrunk from the occasion. Now, he could have been exhausted. A lot of those players in the series were exhausted. But I thought last night they needed Devin Booker. Maybe not to get 40, but they needed 25 to 30 from Booker. Booker did the best he could do defensively, and I think his defense is a little bit underrated. But offensively, he deferred too much in the fourth quarter unless it was at the very end of a shot clock or in transition. And I thought, you know, he should have been hunting shots more. I didn't think Phoenix did a good job offensively all night long with ball movement. It just didn't move that much. It stuck with Paul and Booker. Chris Paul kept him in the game

with a phenomenal second quarter when they were down 13 and then they outscored Milwaukee 31 to 13 in the second period. He finished with 26. I think Chris Paul didn't shoot enough. look, they were very much reduced last night by a very good defensive team to a lot of ISO and two-man pick and roll. The ball did not move like it has throughout the postseason for Phoenix. But I thought Paul, especially on some of those switches, could have gotten to his spot consistently and taken even more shots. You know, they deferred both of them to Crowder and to bridges at times last night, and I didn't think that made a lot of sense with the game on the line in the fourth quarter. It was a bad, rough, awful night for Devin Booker.

8 of 22, 0 for 7 from behind the arc, 19 points in a game where they really needed him to score more and to be more of a factor than he was getting buckets in a game like that, especially in the fourth quarter. The guy that was completely lost and nowhere near, up to the occasion was another very young player, D'Andre Aiton, who was completely overwhelmed last night in a pressure situation on the road in a very hostile environment. Look, he's had some very good games. He looks like a really good player down the road. This is an older man's experienced game the NBA postseason is. And D'Andre Aiton had his first taste of a legitimate,

high profile, high pressure kind of game on the road. And he wilted. There's no other way to describe it. He couldn't even make three and five foot shots off pick and roll when he was wide open against a smaller player. It was really painful to watch Aiton guard last night. He gave up against Janus. There was no real compete. There was no real contest. There was no real fight. Aiton was a real hindrance, was a real problem last night. They went to Kaminsky in the fourth quarter in the second half. Frank Kaminsky, who went to Wisconsin, you know, was a first round picked by the Hornets way back when. Kaminsky came in and gave him more fight and gave him a little bit more in terms of good touch, good hands, good feel around the rim.

He had some important shots. but Aiton and Booker really let the Sons down last night. You couldn't necessarily think that you were going to get a big night from a 22-year-old in that spot, but I think that Sons fans would say we expected more from Devin Booker. And look, one of the reasons they were there last night was Devin Booker. And I think he's going to be a great player. And he is a really, really good player. But he had a chance last night at 24 years old in what?

his seventh year in the league, something like that. It's first finals experience, and we've seen this in the NBA. You've got to have that experience, but there wasn't a lot of finals experience on the other side either. So you had a moment there for Booker to step up and play well, and he just didn't. He didn't. So Phoenix goes down. I thought they had chances.

I do not think like many of you do that officiating was a factor last night at all. I thought Janus totally earned the 19 trips to the free. throw line. I thought Kaminsky grabbed him and raked him a couple of times in the fourth quarter where it wasn't even called. And so I thought overall, you know, it was an intense game. It was an ugly game, certainly in the first quarter. My God, neither team could make a shot. There were turnovers all over the place. Last night, the game included 32 turnovers. Milwaukee had 18 turnovers in the game. And by the way, made six total three-point shots. They shot 22.2% from behind the arc, and they won the game. It's what you expect, though, in a close-out game. You expect it to be

intense as it was on defense. You know, if you want to look at these postseason games, and this series in particular, the last couple of games, none of these games in the postseason in this sport resemble a regular season game. You don't learn enough, and really you can't say anything definitive about players, about coaches, about teams, until you see them compete in these kinds of games. They're totally, totally different. Anyway, I really enjoyed the series, even though there were some blowouts early. I loved the playoffs. You know, I mentioned this a few times over the last couple of weeks.

weeks. We had 28 individual performances in this postseason where players scored 40 or more points. There hasn't been any postseason that's come close to that over the last 10 years. 13, 40 point plus performances in the bubble, 11 the year before that, 17, 3 years ago was the closest you get. 28 performances, individual performances of 40 or more. We have, had some of the greatest individual performances in the history of the NBA postseason. Lillard's 55 and a double overtime loss. Durant's 49 in Game 7. Durant's incredible Game 5 against Milwaukee. There were unbelievable performances throughout. Donovan Mitchell, Kauai Leonard, Luca Donchich, and the list goes on and on. Trey Young. I mean, it seems like years ago

that Trey Young was playing at this point. And they were in the Eastern Conference finals. Last thing. I really enjoyed the postseason is what I was really getting at. I really thought the playoffs were outstanding this year. Last thing, and it's true, even though I don't diminish in any way Milwaukee winning the title because of it. Injuries are a reality in sports. They influence outcomes in every sport.

This postseason was a little bit different. I mean, we've never seen so many star players go down like we did in this postseason. Bottom line is, Milwaukee's a champion. They earned it. They have a top five player, which makes 17 years in a row where if you don't have a top five player, you're not winning the NBA title. Yannis is obviously a top five player. But the Bucks, if the Nets had been healthy, there's no way they beat the Brooklyn Nets.

down to nothing and being embarrassed, really, in those two games. Once Kyrie went down, once Hardin was compromised, and it was just Durant. It was much easier for Milwaukee to, it just gave him a chance. They took advantage of it, and they won a seventh and deciding game in Brooklyn. You know, Kevin Durant in that series two, two 49-point outputs, which is really, really, or 49 and 48, he had 48 in game 7. And he almost did it by himself. If he had had one or the other healthy for the rest of the series,

Milwaukee would not have won the NBA finals this year. And on the flip side, if Kauai Leonard hadn't gotten hurt, the Sons wouldn't have been in the finals, and the Bucks would not have beaten the Clippers with a healthy Kauai Leonard and a best of seven. Now that's a little bit more debatable. I do think they would have beaten the Suns. And you can go all the way back and talk about AD and the Lakers, etc.

The Bucks were, I think, fully healthy in this postseason, the fourth best team. I think that the overall that the nets, the clippers, and the Lakers had the Lakers been healthy going into the postseason, the bucks would have fallen in line somewhere after that. But still, what a win, what a performance by Janus, and what a crowd and what a scene in Milwaukee, 65 to 70,000 people outside the arena in the Deer District. That is one of those cities. They love their NBA team.

They've had success with other teams. Obviously, it's a Packers Town. You know, they had Marquette win the national championship in basketball back in 1977 with Al McGuire as the head coach. That's a long time ago. It had been since 1971 when Lou Al Cinder with Bobby Dandrich and Oscar Robertson beat the Celtics to win their last title 50 years ago. They've always loved the Bucks and you could see the excitement in that town when they got to the NBA finals, even throughout the playoffs, got to the NBA. finals and how it exploded in Milwaukee. Quite a scene.

Good series. Incredible performance by Janice. I thought also really Drew Holiday was exceptional throughout the postseason for them as well. And Phoenix, I was wrong, man. I was wrong on two fronts when it came to Milwaukee and Phoenix. Number one, I predicted Phoenix would win the series in five way off. I certainly felt after the first two games that we were in,

pretty good shape there. You know, they control, they really won those first two games pretty handily. And then Milwaukee obviously turns it around and wins four straight. And the other thing, early on in the postseason, I thought I was watching the same Janus that I had seen go out against Toronto, Miami last year, Toronto two years ago, where when the game slowed down and the focus was on him defensively, he didn't have many answers if the game wasn't played sort of up-tempo. Well, they figured it out, and he figured it out, and they are champions because of it. And he's also, wow, one of the most likable athletes from afar

that we've had in sports in a long, long time. Andrew Brandt coming up, before that, though, another national pundit all over Washington as a significant threat in the NFC. That right after these words from a few of our sponsors. A reminder to subscribe to the podcast, if you haven't already. It really helps us. It doesn't cost you a thing. Also, rate us and review us when you have a chance. Five stars would be nice and a really nice one or two sentence review, especially on Apple and Spotify. If you haven't done it, that would be helpful. To those of you who have done it, especially recently, I've read a lot of those reviews, thank you very much. It really does help us on the advertising side of this podcast.

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A news item from the Washington football team today and something a national analyst, NFL analyst, said about our Washington football team in this segment. I'll start with the news item and address it briefly. The Washington football team put out a press release this morning that they're going to hold a Friday night football practice at FedEx Field on August 6th under the lights. They're giving away 25,000 tickets to the first 25,000 fans that claim the seats. I think it's 20,000 for the lower bowl and then 5,000 club level tickets for season ticket holders. You can access that information at Washington Football.com slash Friday night football. In the press statement, the head coach Ron Rivera said,

It's exciting to be welcoming our fans back into FedEx Field for the first time this season. Washington fans are the most passionate in the NFL, and I know our players are going to feed off their energy at practice. We can't wait to embark on the 2021 season with the fans cheering us on at FedEx Field, closed. Jason Wright, the team president, said, quote, we're so excited to welcome our fans back for this unique practice under the lights at FedEx Field. After a season unlike any other, it's truly a privilege. truly a privilege to share all of the new fan initiatives and an invigorated team with

this many fans and season ticket members altogether. There are so many reasons holding an event like this is important for our team and our fan base, so we are looking forward to this being just the beginning of a great season for the team and our fans closed quote. I think one of the interesting things about this upcoming season, of course, it's the actual football team and whether or not they are a competitive. team on the field. And I think there's reason to believe that they can be a competitive football team this year. But I think the other storyline for this franchise will be the business of the team.

Most of you don't care. I understand that. It's all about winning on the field. It is for me, too. But I do, I'm interested to see whether or not, you know, this level of optimism, maybe the highest level of optimism and the football team will translate business-wise. You know, we saw recently, and I think I talked about this on Monday, the athletic did that fan survey. They had a bunch of questions asking Washington football fans about various things, and one of the questions was, how many regular season home games do you plan to attend this year? 65% of the respondent said zero. Another 29% said between one and two games. That's unbelievable. That is unbelievable that 94% of those responding essentially said, yeah, going to games is not important to me.

Now, it's a weird year because of COVID, and everybody's going to approach attending live sporting events differently, certainly differently than they used to. So that plays into this. But 65% said they're not going to any games. Let's not forget the last time, people could go to games, they weren't going at all. That final game of 2019 against Philadelphia at home was an absolute embarrassment. I mean, maybe 5,000 Washington football team fans at that game, 18 to 20,000 total, most of them Philadelphia fans. But I also sense that people feel a little bit differently about this particular team. I think it's going to be interesting to watch two things beyond the football product, which is the most important thing. Number one is how aggressive they are here over the next several weeks in selling tickets. They've not been in this position for a long time.

Now, I say that. Really, over the last five years, we have noticed how things have changed. You know, there's no wait list. We've known that for many years. I remember Brian Lafamina when he took the job as team president. One of the things that really pissed off everybody is when he first admitted that there was no season ticket wait list. And then secondly, he said something to the effect of, and I'm paraphrasing here, he said, you know, when you have tickets, it's best to let people know that you have tickets. And that was not something that I think Dan Snyder or Bruce Allen wanted him to say. Like, you know, hey, we've got tickets available.

Let's tell everybody that we've got tickets available. Well, you know, now they are aggressively letting people know they've got tickets available. You're going to see over the next several weeks a bunch of marketing, like you've never seen for tickets. You know, single game tickets, certainly season tickets, but each game that comes up, the Chargers game, the Giants game, the first two home games of the year, the first two games of the year, you're going to see all. offers and promotions to get tickets to these games. You're going to be able to get tickets like you've never been able to get tickets. And I'm talking about through the team, not through the aftermarket for $10. As we all know in recent years, you've been able to go to games, certainly after the midpoint of the season, for, you know, $15 or less. You know, good seats. They are in a mode of

operation that they've never been in before. They're aggressively trying to get fans. They're trying to acquire customers. You know, it's almost like a new startup business. They are in the customer acquisition business. And by the way, that can be very expensive. And I think it's going to be so interesting to see how aggressive they are and how creative they are in trying to get people to come to the games, getting people to watch the games, and then, two, what the results of that are. Like, I would expect the Chargers opener to be a pretty good crowd, right? In 2018, the home opener against the Colts, remember, after they had beaten Arizona in the opener in Alex Smith's first game as a Washington Redskin, and then remember Adrian Peterson's

first game, he ran for 100 yards. People were excited. They're like, whoa, we got a quarterback, we got a running back and they came home and there were like $48,000, maybe $50,000 at the game on a beautiful Sunday afternoon 1 o'clock game against the Colts. That was weird. That was another one of those. Oh my God. It's not anger. It's not, you know, people being pissed off. It is total, total apathy. But I, you know, I think watching how they market themselves and then watching what the results are. Obviously, winning on the field will drive the most in terms of results. But how it plays out early in the season with some optimism about the team, I think will be interesting. But the business of the team is going to be

there for all to see. It didn't used to be. They will be aggressive in marketing and selling themselves like they've never been before. I hope that personally manifests itself from a PR standpoint with more accessibility to the team, to the coaches, to the players, when training camp starts, but certainly when the regular season starts. They have not been the most accessible in recent years. They should be. They're in the mode that the other teams in town are in. They should be doing everything they can to woo customers. The other topic I wanted to get to is something that Sam Acho said this morning. Who is Sam Acho? Well, he's a former player in the NFL. And he is an analyst on ESPN. I think I know who he is, but this tweet this morning got a lot of attention, especially

among Washington football fans. Sam Acho was on Greenberg's show Get Up this morning. And after his appearance on the show, he tweeted out the following. He said, y'all, Jeff Saturday, who was on the show with him, the former Colt Center, who's been an ESPN NFL analyst for a while now, he said, Jeff Saturday just accused me of being high on national TV. And you know what? He's right. I am high. I'm high on the Washington football team being the biggest challenge for Tampa Bay in the NFC.

coaching and culture, teamwork and talent, Washington has what it takes. So he's not the first. There have been others, you know, certainly people locally and plenty of people nationally that are very bullish, very high on Washington this year. And I was thinking about that as I have several times in this offseason. And I am wondering why. and I'm also trying to put it in sort of a realistic perspective. First of all, look, you shouldn't care and I don't care that much.

It just makes for good conversation in July what other people inside the market or outside the market. I would take more of what people inside the market that you trust and believe in, believe about the team, more than people outside the market. But there is optimism. You know, I said this recently. I think there's more optimism about a season than there's been since, 2013. 2016 was a house of cards because I think we knew they could be good offensively, but defensively they were just not very good. They just sucked defensively in 2015,

2016, and in 2017. So this is different though, because they've got really good talent on defense, as we know, and they've got some good young talent on offense. But if you're picking as a national pundit, or anybody, if you're picking Washington to be a significant NFC champion contender, championship contender, only Tampa Bay, come on. You can't be basing that off of the team you watched last year. And this is the point that I wanted to make. We've got to get some realistic perspective on what last year was. Last year, that was. Last year, that was, was an average football team in a terrible division playing a weakened schedule. They were seven and nine. We know the seven wins and the quarterbacks they faced. They were not a good football team last

year. They were an improved football team. They were a more sound, fundamental, well-coached football team, and yes, there is young talent on the team. They've been acquiring it on defense specifically the last couple of years, and they were improved. And what was great about last year is while they weren't a good football team, they were a very average football team, they got incredible experience playing in a game at the end of the year to win the division on national TV in the Sunday night finale, and then they got a chance to face Tom Brady in a playoff game. That's great experience. But if you're picking Washington to be a major contender in the NFC, it can't be because of what you saw last year. It has to be something else.

If you say, I like that team last year, that team won the division last year, that team really pushed Tampa last year, Chase Young, Montez Sweat, John Allen, you know, they were hurt at quarterback and still they won the division. No, if you watch that team, it was an average football team. And by the way, defensively improved, but good, not great. If you think Washington is a legitimate playoff winning team, like they're going to qualify for the playoffs as the division champion and they're going to win a game or two, then it's because, or it should be because they had a really good offseason. and you believe in the quarterback.

They did have a good offseason. This should be the reason that if you're more excited and optimistic about the team, it's because they literally added good players to almost every need that they had coming off of last season. They needed offensive linemen, they added Leno, they added Cosmi, they added flowers, They kept sheriff, even though it was very expensive, but he's a great culture guy, and he's the best offensive linemen they have. They have him coming back. At wide receiver, you had some issues. You added Curtis Samuel.

You added Adam Humphreys. You added Diami Brown. You needed secondary help because you lost Ronald Darby, who had a pretty good year. So you went out and got the best corner in free agency, William Jackson, the third. You needed linebacker help, and you drafted one in the first round. and you also needed good quarterback play because you didn't have it last year. And you tried by swinging big, but the runner-up prize was Ryan Fitzpatrick. If you believe that Washington is a legitimate contender, Sam Acho, and I didn't hear the reasons why,

it's because they had a really good off-season and you believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick. You have to believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick. If you've got Washington winning playoff games this year or being a double-digit win kind of a team, you have to believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick. I use Denver as the example all the time, and there are others. Denver hasn't sniffed the playoffs since 2015 when they won the Super Bowl, and they've had great defensive talent and exceptional defensive coaching. And in the last couple of years, incredible skill position talent.

But they haven't had the quarterback. Washington could end up being Denver for the next couple of years. If Ryan Fitzpatrick, if you don't believe in him or if he doesn't deliver, or if Taylor Heinecke doesn't deliver. You've got to believe if you believe in Washington this year is more than just a 9-and-8 division winner and a bad division and no chance to advance in the postseason. If you believe in them more than that,

you've got to believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick. My personal belief is I think they're going to be an improved football team, that they will be improved again on defense, and that they will be improved at quarterback, but that there are still several teams in a loaded, loaded NFC that are better than them. In part, mostly in part, because they've got quarterbacks. The Rams are better. The Seahawks are better. The 49ers might be better. The Buccaneers are better. The Packers with Rogers are better.

The Cowboys with Prescott should be better. There are a lot of people that are really, really excited, really optimistic, really bullish on Washington. I think that if you are, it's because you really believe in the offseason that they've had and you believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick. But you know who doesn't really believe in Washington? the boys in the desert. They're still the ninth or tenth out of 16 teams in the NFC in terms of odds to win the NFC championship. Their season win total is eight and a half. It's probably one of the better numbers. Now, it's a 17-game schedule for the first time. But, you know, essentially, if you put it back to last year, their over-under total is eight,

you know, in a 16-game schedule, eight and a half and a 17-game schedule. They're predicted to be, you know, barely on either side of 500. When's the last time that happened? Maybe 2016. Maybe 2016 they had an 8.5 or a 9 number on their total, win total. But it's not 10. It's not 9.5, which is what Dallas is. It's not 11 or 11.5 like it is with, you know, the Buccaneers and the Rams and the Packers, if Rogers plays for them.

The NFC is a really good conference. Even with the NFC East, there are eight teams, eight in the NFC with win totals of nine or higher. So eight teams predicted to be better than 500 in the upcoming season. Washington's not one of them. Dallas, the Packers, the Vikings, the Saints, the Buccaneers, the Niders, and the Seahawks. Half the conference is predicted to be. better than 500. Actually, it's not that remarkable, I guess, that eight teams at a 16 are predicted to finish

above 500. Yeah, the math on that is probably pretty consistent year-in-in-year-out that you've got half your teams with win totals equalling, you know, 500 or better. But I guess my point is I kind of view the NFC as loaded. There are five teams that I think if they end up in the Super Bowl, it's not going to surprise anybody. The Seahawks, the Niners, the Rams, the Bucks, the Packers. That's five right there.

I don't put Washington in that class. I think they're going to be an improved team. I think they're going to play some entertaining games. I think they're going to win some games during the course of the year that are going to make us believe that they are a, much better football team than they were a year ago. But that's not saying much. They just were average a year ago. I think they're going to be improved, but I don't think they're a playoff team. I think maybe 2022 and beyond is when legitimately they start taking a swing at something much bigger.

But of course, that will be contingent on having the quarterback. Plenty of time to revise that forecast, though, between now and opening day. Up next, Andrew Brandt, long time. NFL executive in Green Bay. We'll talk Aaron Rogers and I'll ask him what he thinks about Washington in this upcoming season. That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, let's welcome on to the podcast. Andrew Brandt, he's been on the radio show with me before on the podcast before everybody knows Andrew. He ran the Green Bay Packers for many, many years. And in fact, it's funny because the Aaron Rogers news yesterday that Adam Schaefter had about the offer that was made to Aaron Rogers that he turned down.

I've really been following you a lot on Twitter during this Rogers thing. I think you've pretty much nailed it all the way along. But I remember the story you told me last time, which was the FAR, you know, Rogers, you know, in that 2005 draft about how you were trying to get out of the first round, but nobody you wanted to come up. And you only had one more player with a first round grade, and it was Aaron Rogers. I often think about that because it was really the opposite in terms of what happened with the Packers last year. They traded up to get Jordan Love.

Ultimately, just describe what happened here over the last year and why they are where they are, in your opinion. Yeah, to give listeners some little deja vu of what you were talking about. I sat in that draft room 2005. we had about 18 players rated as first round picks. After 18, 19, 20 pick, all but one of them was gone, and we were picking 24th. So we were staring at one name, that whole time approaching our pick, and his name was Aaron Rogers. We had the most durable quarterback in the history of the sport. The last position on our roster we needed was quarterback.

So it was a very combustible situation where our coaches were dead set against taking them because obviously he wouldn't help our team that year. Coaches are very immediate focused. But General Manager Ted Thompson and I looked at each other and said, what do we always say? Trust the board. Yeah. And we let that phone sit for 15 minutes and kept Aaron on the line.

And we like, you know, is somebody going to come up and offer us two-toos or whatever? And no one did. And no one in the league, everyone could have had Aaron Rogers if I gave us. It's a decent offer. So anyway, we took them, and I'll never forget as long as I live, Kevin. The 30 seconds after we took him, Brett calls the coach, Brett's agent calls me. We have a draft party below us at Lambeau Field with a thousand people. They booed so hard it shook our souls.

It shook our souls to hear that booing. No one liked the pick. Yeah. But, okay, spinning it forward, that was, as we just talked about, that came to us. He fell in our lap. He fell in our lap. The best player in football fell in our lap. Now, 15 years later, the Packers on the exact same day took Jordan Love, but as you've mentioned, traded up for him.

And two things went through my mind that day. Number one, what's the plan? When is the transition to Jordan Love? And number two, I'm sorry, three things. Number two, it put an expiration date on Aaron and the Packers, which we'll talk about. And number three, they've got to manage this. Oh, my God. They've got to manage this because all I did for three years was manage it.

I had Brett's camp saying, Andrew, it stinks to come into work every, sit with your replacement. That's no fun. And I had Aaron's camp saying, is he ever going to play? Is he ever going to play? Brett's never going to retire. Why don't you trade? So this is what you do with. And I'm not sure the Packers have managed this well

because clearly Aaron feels a breach. Aaron feels like there's been a breach of trust from the front office. I don't know if it's the coached a gentleman or the president, but it's telling to me the most telling part of this whole story for four months is that those three entities, president, GM coach, have all sat with Aaron in L.A. or wherever it's been, and here we are. And here we are. Yeah, it's, I love, I love some of the detail that you share about 2005.

The situations are different, but I'm going to ask you anyway, if you were, if you had been in their situation last year, would you have gone to Aaron Rogers and include, him in this decision and made him feel like he was a significant voice in the organization. 2005, your plan wasn't to draft Aaron Rogers. So, you know, there was no, there was no, you know, beforehand, hey, we got to let Brett know we're in the market for a quarterback. You just drafted your board and you would have traded out of that pick if anybody had come up and taken him.

But last year, if you were the Packers, if you were Mark Murphy, if you were Guttenkunt, would you have gone to Aaron Rogers? been more up front. Well, I don't know the story in the draft room. We may never know, you know, if they went in free draft wanting Jordan Love, because things happen, as you know, and, you know, there are the Todd McShade of the world would ever have Jordan Love a top 10 pick, and maybe the Packers just looked at the board,

late in the first round, said, let's just do this. And in the chaos of the draft room, I know that so well, I don't fault them for not getting Aaron on the phone. But, here's the but, post-draft. I just wonder what kind of conversations went on. Because post-draft, you're like, okay, as I've said, five minutes earlier, we have now put an expiration date on Aaron Rogers, which I never thought would happen. And now it's time for open and honest communication. having said that, I'm going to put my management hat on, Kevin, because I get what the Packers

haven't done. Because I didn't want to tell Brett Favre, hey, we're transitioning in three years or two years, or five years. You just don't know. So they don't want to tell Aaron Rogers, hey, 2022, you're on, you're out. And I know he wants that because he gets the end of this year and he's like, okay, I have an MVP. what's the plan? And if I'm the Packers, I don't want to commit to a plan.

And that's the rope. Yeah, I think the one thing in just thinking about it is that you're right, maybe they didn't have that plan before the draft, but they traded up. They were aggressive, which really was a message to Aaron Rogers. Not that your message in 2005 was received any differently, but clearly the intent was different, I think. It was also a different.

It was about the future. I mean, listen, the Packers fans, I see this in a nice way, are the most bold fans in the history of the NFL. They've had 30 years, 30 years of franchise quarterback. Concective. And the hope and the plan and the dream for the Packers was, all right, let's get this guy. and we'll have 45 years of franchise quarterback play, and who knows.

But they saw an opportunity. And what, you know, what's the alternative to wait like these other teams, Chicago Bears, for one, until you absolutely need a quarterback to get one. So Packers have always, you know, going back to way before that when we were drafting Matt Hasselback and Aaron Brooks and Mark Brunel, you know, always there was succession in mind to not let us get behind the eight ball on the most important position. You know this franchise here.

It's amazing. You know, it's been 30 years. We're coming up on the 30-year anniversary of the 91 team that won the Super Bowl, and really 30 years since this organization was relevant, right? And during the same time, Brett Farve and Aaron Rogers have given Packers fans or run like you read about it. The most important time, too, in football to have that position nailed down, it almost makes me think, and I've said this a few times over the last couple of months, because you'd read things about how some fans are upset with Aaron Rogers, and I'm like,

no, no, no, you don't get it. You don't know what it's like not to have one. It's terrible, and you've had one for 30 years. How does this thing conclude, and what do you think the Packers have done and what can they do to try to get them in and try to have them as their quarterback for the rest of his career? Well, there are two issues here. It's financial and personal. And financial, you know, there's rumors reports yesterday from ESPN. They've offered a contract. Maybe it's more money. Maybe it's more guarantees. Maybe it's more years. And I said this from the start, Kevin. I really did. I said, if this was about money, we're done. It's good. They'll figure that out.

I mean, that was my job. We always figured it out, figured it out, but it's not about money. And as I said earlier, there's some deep fissure, some chasm between the Rogers camp and the team. I know this, you know, from talking to both sides, there's no one in that organization that Rogers sees as his guy, you know, his point person with the team. and the little things over the years they fired a coach he liked they cut a couple guys he liked but

you know it's a cumulative thing now having said all that can he get out I don't see away I don't see away you know here we are a day after the NBA finals ended

that's a different league you know if he was James Hart if he was Anthony David right he could get out. But the Packers aren't trading him. He can't trade himself. And I seriously, seriously doubt he would ever retire.

So then what? You know, then you have to answer the question. Then what? Okay, not getting traded and not retiring. Then what? Now, the one main point for the Packers, could be, I've no insight information on this, but to give them a void, the Tom Brady void, where at the end of the year, he picks his new team.

Now, that would be a major poison pill for the Packers to follow because they wouldn't get trade compensation. They wouldn't get number one pick and all that. But is that the only thing that would take, would Aaron even do that? You know, say, I'll come back, give me the void. with the Packers do that. I mean, these are tough discussions right now, but at the end of the day, at the end of the day, even with the best player in the league, my point has been the team still holds the cards.

It's really an amazing situation, and it's a very unpredictable situation. You just laid out a couple of the options, including a new one that I haven't heard. Ultimately, somehow, you've got to have somebody that can communicate and can convince can sell. And I don't know that the Packers have that in Murphy or Guden Kudst, right? There's a trust there. Part of this probably is back on Aaron a little bit too because he appears to be one of those guys.

You can correct me if I'm wrong that has all the answers. And if you're not sure, just ask him. So it's a stubbornness there on maybe both sides. That's hard when it's both sides to get to a solution. Yeah, listen. And, you know, I worked for Ted Thompson, Ron Wolfe first, but Ted Thompson. Ted was an elite evaluator, elite, but he was not a communicator. And he let me, Reggie McKenzie, John Schneider, John Dorsey, you know, we communicate with players and agents.

That wasn't his thing. That wasn't his jam. So I just wonder, I mean, go to country as a Ted disciple. and, you know, who's doing the communicating and how? Because that's what you're sort of getting out of this. There's just, there's kind of a chill between the Packers and Aaron's camp. You know, again, you're right. Aaron's not blameless in this either.

But how are they going to overcome this? I mean, I come to Jesus meeting, all those kind of things, intervention. Yeah, but right now Aaron seems pretty dug in. All right. So if you had to wager, last question for you, how does this get resolved? I think he plays.

I think there's going to be some pain in August. And I, you know, I'm not even factoring in training camp fines or whatever that is. Aaron doesn't need training camp. Aaron doesn't need preseason games. There's going to be some pain.

In other words, he's going to try to bring him to the brink and see if they'll trade them. I maintain they won't. I mean, I'm just throwing this one out of the pain point I talked about, the void, I have no insight information on that. But to me, if you get to that breaking point, there's an answer. Packard get him for the year, but he gets out on his terms. Right.

So I guess my answer is he plays in 2021 for the Packers. Beyond that, all bets are off. Yeah. And you have sort of said, and I've been following you on Twitter when it comes to this, you do think that ultimately he will get traded next year. Always great to catch up. Actually, just tell me real quickly, there's a lot of buzz here. There's more optimism than there's been in the football team's chances in this upcoming season.

do you think? Yeah, I mean, they're in the right division. It's, I think, even a year later, it's still a down division compared to others, and they have an opportunity. You know, I don't how much the Prescott return is going to factor in in terms of elevating the Cowboys, but it looks like, you know, the Giants are still assembling, and the Eagles are going to have a down year. So I'm interested in following in finding out, you know, Fitzpatrick's a survivor. I did a business of football Hall of Fame, he's in it. He finds himself in situations where he just finds lightning in a bottle wherever he goes. So I'm a big fan. You did a what, a business, what a sports business hall of fame? I did on my sports illustrated column and my podcast last

week. I did the business of football Hall of Fame, headlined by one Sam Bradford. And there There were 12 initial inductees, one of which is Fitzpatrick. So check that out on Sports Illustrated and my podcast. That's amazing. You know what I've, was Chase Daniel in consideration? Yeah. He was number two behind Bradford. Yeah, because I've always said about Chase Daniel.

I don't know if anybody's worked this system better than he has over the years. He must be one hell of a guy and a guy that people like to be around. what a career he's had and how much money he's made without playing much. It's great to catch up. Thank you so much, and I definitely want to go listen to that now. I appreciate it, Andrew. Yeah, and just the people have been asking, I now have a newsletter, too, so people want to check that out.

Go to Andrew dashbrant.com every Sunday morning. I'll give you this new content, new information for me every Sunday morning. That's awesome. And you can follow Andrew on Twitter at Andrew Brandt, B-R-A-N-D. and all of that info is there as well. Take care. Talk soon. Be well. Andrew Brandt, everybody. That's it for the day. Tommy will be with me tomorrow. We'll have the show out a little bit earlier than usual tomorrow. And we'll talk more Nats. They got a big win last night against Miami. That's three in a row. Schedule really helping out now after that brutal stretch for them.

But have a great day back tomorrow with Tom.