The Kevin Sheehan Show - Budget Conscious Commanders

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

Kevin and Thom today on what appears to be a budget-conscious approach to the offseason for the Commanders. Plenty on Bezos, the sale, the Wizards' trading of Rui Hachimura, and more.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. I'm here. Tommy is here. I'm going to start the show, Tommy, by reading a couple of the five-star reviews that we got on Apple Podcast.

Keep them coming. It's a big help if you haven't rated or reviewed the show and you don't mind doing it. It's a huge help. But a couple of them are kind of funny. This from Big Ebs, who writes after giving us five stars. Thank you, Big Ebs. As a lifelong D.C. sports fan in my 50s, Kevin, I look forward to your podcast every day. When you have Tommy on, it's priceless banter, although tell him to stay away from Chinese laundries.

That guy, I've never lived that down. No, I still can't believe you told that story, and it's been a couple of years since you told that story. Yes, it has. One of the worst moments for Tommy during his lifetime. This from Poll Daddy via Apple Podcasts,

also five stars. Amazing show, but just need some more Laverro karaoke to put it over the top. Thank you for all the coverage over the years. Yeah, thanks so much. And from the podcast,

Scrutinizer, only Kevin and Tom can make me glued to a conversation about pinball machines. You all are great to listen to, especially at work. Keep it up. Appreciate that. Yeah, so many of you sent me actual links to buying that evil-can-eval pinball machine

that I remember as a young lad that used to be at the 7-Eleven on River Road. And I mean, I think I might buy one. I think there are a lot of them out there available. They're not expensive. I could buy one of them, and I've got a spot in my basement that I could put it that I think would work pretty well. That would be epic. You know, I always wanted to buy one of these, like, bowling machines you see in bars, you know, where they have the sliding disc. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they have the pins. Yes. And, you know, you can do play strike 90 or regulation or all these, and we used to love that. We used to go out of our way to find bars that had that game. But, you know, I've a few years. ago, we went in the what's known as the downsized mode, or as I call it, the death march. And so I don't have space anymore since we moved into condo for that kind of stuff. So I would recommend if you get a chance, you do it, because if you don't do it, you'll regret it.

I know, but here's my concern. My concern is that for like a week, I'm going to be really into it, and then it's just going to be sitting there basically with no action for years. come and take up space? Well, you have to, you know, here's what you're going to have to do. I know this is hard for you. Okay. But you're going to have to open up your doors.

You're going to have to, like, invite people into play it. Okay, yeah. Hey, pinball, all of my friends that are over the age of 50, please come to my house and we're going to play pinball for a few hours. And, by the way, drink Milwaukee's best. I'll get a couple of cases of Milwaukee's best. and we can do it that way. This was a very interesting review.

It comes from apparently our number one fan in Kuwait, who said at the very end of his review, I'm your loyal listener from Kuwait, and the days you are not on are a nightmare for me, I give you the best podcast award in Kuwait every day. But this is how he started his review, and he gave us five stars. He titled the review,

Dumb MF. I don't know of a single show where the host calls his listeners a bunch of dumb MFers. And we still come and listen to him and probably listen to him more than the commanders have fans. Kevin and Tom are great. Their arrogance makes the show what it is great. And then he writes, I'm your loyal listener from Kuwait. Not a day goes by where if you're not on, it's a nightmare for me, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I think we have this year.

I think for me it kind of started with the Carson Wentz thing a year ago. And I started to realize that the fan base, I don't think we've referred to you guys as dumb MFers. Maybe once or twice. I don't know. But we did have a conversation last week about what has clearly been, for those of us, for those of us that are old enough to remember how sharp this fan base will. was, there has been a dumbing down of the fan base. And I, by the way, blame Snyder for all of it.

He's chased away two-thirds of the fan base, roughly, you know, give or take, you know, an eighth of the fan base. He's chased away two-thirds of us. And, you know, a lot of the two-thirds, I think, were among the sharper tools in the tool shed. Because those that are still spending lots of money on this team, I do respect your loyalty and I respect your stick-toitiveness, I guess, but I just think that we've been treated and insulted so much

that I've never had a problem with those that have walked. Never. And by the way, we'll never, ever not welcome those people back in with open arms whenever they want to come back in, you know, hopefully when Snyder is gone and things are improved. But we did kind of, I think in one of the last week's show or maybe it was two weeks ago, and it was kind of the Carson Wentz thing that triggered me a little bit.

I still can't believe how many of you literally told me to get the hell out of town on Twitter. You basically said if you're not buying this Carson Wentz trade, that's your prerogative, but leave town. You're either all in or get out. I mean, that's dumb. That's a dumb response after a trade that was clearly dumb at the time. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I know. Look, I caught the same grief.

I'm the one who was at training camp, and after once in training camp predicted that Taylor Hining would be the starter by week 10. I caught just as much grief. Yeah, I know. So, yeah. Yeah, and this manifested itself recently in the coronation of Sam Howe. Well, let me to make clear. I think could be an NFL quarterback and could be the starting quarterback. But to take that you found your quarterback is insane.

So that's how all that's the most recent incarnation of this came up. It did. And here's the thing that I would say. You know, if you don't want to be called, you know, simpletons, then don't come at us and call us simpletons. If you're going to dish it out, you're going to have to take some of it back when you're dead wrong. That was pointed towards the dumb-dums in the fan base

that told everybody that didn't believe that Washington had absolutely hit the mother load in the trade with the Colts for Carson Wentz. You guys thought we were the idiots. No, you were dumb. And you were wrong. And by the way, we've been wrong about a lot of things. And the Hal thing, the Sam Howl thing, is also dumb. To anoint him, like, you figured it out already after one game that he's the,

He's the answer. Look, you might be right, but you're not right right now. You don't know. You don't know. You have no idea whether or not Sam Howell can be a really good NFL quarterback. And you can't risk your whole future on this notion that you found your quarterback. You've got to have other options. But here's the thing, Tommy, because I think that this Albert Breer story from yesterday, the MMQB,

SI thing, where he said he's hearing basically that Washington's going to end up settling on Ken Zampese. I just think right now, they're just not going to invest in much. I don't know that. I have not heard that. I've tried to find people that can confirm that there's basically for all intents and purposes and maybe for the lack of a better description, a spending freeze. I don't think that they are, they're certainly not going to trade for anybody that they have to pay. They're certainly not going to bring in an offensive coordinator that costs a lot of money when they are also paying Scott Turner. And because they're not going the big swing route on the quarterbacks, which, by the way, the truth is there really isn't a big swing available unless Aaron Rogers were to come available. I mean, Derek Carr, I guess, would be a big swing.

I think Derek Carr is a big swing. But personally, I wouldn't make that swing. It's not a big swing like the ones we've talked about the last few years. To me, Derek Carr is not a Matt Stafford swing. He's not a Russell Wilson swing. And I know Russell Wilson didn't work out this year in Denver, but in the moment, it was a much bigger swing. I mean, it would cost, it's going to cost a lot less to acquire Derek Carr than it would have Russell Wilson a year ago or Deshawn Watson or two years ago, even Matt Stafford. You know, most NFL people knew what Matt Stafford was in the right kind of environment.

He was already considered to be a really good quarterback. He was just on some terrible teams. And with a really good coaching staff and some talent around them, you know, people thought you can win a Super Bowl, which he did last year. But if Breer is right and they're going the spending freeze in transition, selling the team route, then we're going to get a chance, I think, to see Sam Howl next year with maybe a very inexpensive veteran backup.

You know, we've already mentioned those names, a Jacoby Brissette, you know, a Case Keenum and Andy Dalton, somebody like that. And by the way, if it's not Ken Zampeze, maybe it's Pat Shermer. I did have somebody tell me, though, after yesterday's podcast, whatever day it was with Cooley. that yesterday was Scott, Friday was with Cooley, that the only downside to bringing in somebody like Pat Schumer, even though he's available and may be cheap and he's got experience

and he's somebody familiar with Ron Rivera is basically they're going to be starting from scratch with a whole new terminology, a whole new system, and with Sam Hal after his rookie season, they may want to continue with some continuity, which Zampi's he would be. But anyway, I guess what I'm getting to is we don't know about Sam Hal. Nobody listening knows whether or not Sam Hal is the right, you know, will end up being the guy.

The odds are stacked heavily against Sam Hal being the guy. But I do think that because of what's going on with this franchise, with respect to the sale, we're going to get a year of, or we're going to certainly get some games and a training camp of Sam Hal to see if there is anything there. You know, so... The wholesale hanging over the team complicates everything moving forward.

I think a reasonable approach is you bring in a veteran to compete. You have a quarterback competition. You don't say, you don't go into the season saying it's Sam House job to lose. You have a quarterback competition with a low-price veteran that you bring in, and you draft a quarterback within the first three rounds that you like. And that quarterback is going to compete for the job as well. Okay, you have a look. Ron always talked about how he wanted to have a legitimate quarterback competition.

Well, you know, it's maybe the time's finally right to do that. Except they're not apparently saying that. Right. What really is strange is that you have a coach that I think most people believe will be fighting for his job next year, whether it's this owner or a new owner, pressing a new owner. And you would think he'd want to lobby and push for as big a swing as possible. Especially with a good team.

Yeah, especially with a team that's not terrible around, you know, an offensive line that needs help in a quarterback position that is, you know, obviously void of anything that you can legitimately win with. Yes, I agree, but I don't know that he's going to have that ability. Probably not. He probably won't, but that's a strange spot for him because he said a couple of times this year and got in trouble when he just blurt out the word quarterback as being the problem earlier this year because these guys can't communicate very well. He said most of the year that, you know, basically the quarterback's the problem and he's not really going to be able to have a chance to fix it, it looks like. I think that that's a real possibility. I mean, who knows? We could be sitting here, you know, once free agency opens or even before that with a report that says Washington's trading for Derek Carr and, you know, they've added the biggest offensive linemen in the draft. Who knows? But I think the odds are probably that this is, that there's a budget. You know, I mentioned, you know, the day after the Rivera, Martin Mayhew press conference, how many times the word.

formula was used and how, you know, their formula, their philosophical formula. By the way, Jesse sent me an email that I'll read here in a second. And Ben wrote about formula and then said, but the two most important words used in that press conference were budget. They referred to it twice. And Ben has, you know, written recently that budget is definitely a real deal thing out there. They're working on a budget. You know, I'm not saying that they don't typically have a budget, but we're talking about a very minimal spending budget. And so that's... Now, you would think that... Wouldn't you think that... I think most NFL fans would think their team's budget is the salary cap. Wouldn't most fans think that? Yeah, but they have to hire an offensive coordinator,

so that's factored into it as well. And then, you know... Okay, stuff outside. No, or stuff that they can control. Well, yeah, but... If they wanted to, they could spend a ton of money on their coaching staff. They have that option.

Right. Those are the things you can control. That's what you're talking. about. No, no, no, no. I'm talking about both, but I think it's the OC, but then I think also, yes, to answer your question, you know, you have a salary cap and you'd like to see, you know, you don't want to be on the most available cap space list, you know, when free agency is over, although that, you know, that's not the route that, you know, Tim, look, the whole quarterback thing, let me read this email from Jesse. Jesse sent me this very long email, and you can email us

through the Kevin Sheehan show website, which I get some of those emails. And you can tweet me at Kevin Sheehan, D.C, and tweet Tommy at Tom Levero, T-H-O-M. Yeah. Sheehan, you've harped on the formula and the formula and ridiculed it the last few weeks. I really, it's not that I've ridiculed it. I've just said that I kind of ridiculed that whole press conference. And the idea that this has been their philosophy, yes. and that they use formula seven times in the description of it.

But really, to me, it's more frustrating because I just think they wing it. I think there's a lot of winging it always going on. I think they're just making it up as they stumble along. I'm not going to read the whole email, but basically it gets to this point. Aren't the Eagles and 49ers using the same formula? What's different? What's different are the Eagles and the 49ers. These are two highly functioning organizations.

Washington isn't. Maybe it will be when this sale is completed and they move forward by hiring out a really good team. The Eagles have been playing chess to everybody else's checkers in the division for years now. Howie Roseman's great. The 49ers with John Lynch and the Shanahan's, I mean, they know what they're doing. I mean, not to mention the coaching in San Francisco is really among, you know, you're talking about offensively, it's top two or three in the league.

I mean, but let me just make this point. The Eagles plan wasn't Jalen Hertz a few years ago. The 49ers plan wasn't Brock Purdy. Okay, even they were swinging big. The Eagles traded all of those picks to move up. to draft Carson Wentz in 2016. They were taking one big swing after another. The 49ers traded up to select Trey Lance because they didn't think Garapolo was good enough.

And then they brought back Garapolo. I mean, Purdy's there at a necessity. Now, who knows? Maybe they landed on it. I've said this a lot, and I've talked about this a lot. And Scott and I talked about this. Van Pelt was on the show yesterday, if you didn't hear it. He was great, per usual.

But I just think the idea that this is the right, you know, the rookie contract deal quarterback is like this, oh, well, let's just go out and draft somebody in the fifth round and have him be great. And then we're all good because we're not spending any money at quarterback. That's a long shot, people. That's not the right way to go. if you end up with a rookie quarterback on a rookie deal that's really good and you can afford to build a really good team around that guy, that's a great position to be in. And the Eagles are in that position, but they're going to have to pay Jalen Hurt. You think they're going to let them walk? You know, if Brock Purdy turns out to be the real deal, do you think in two years they're going to let them walk?

It's just, it'd be great if Sam Howell came to us that way. and they could spend 900 grand on him next year and put a veteran back up and have three million bucks invested in the quarterback position. And then they can invest everywhere else. And we don't know what they're going to be able to invest in this offseason regardless. But it's hard to find a franchise quarterback that's elite. And it's just as hard, if not harder, to land on a rookie quarterback. deal with a guy that's not drafted to be a franchise quarterback. We've seen a lot of teams struggle trying to do this over the years.

More teams struggle with this quarterback position than come up with answers to it. Washington's on a long list of teams. It would be great if Sam Howells the answer. The odds are stacked heavily that he's against him being the next Brock Purdy. or even Jalen Hertz, who, by the way, let's not forget, was taken in the second round. You know, he wasn't a fourth rounder. He's a second rounder. Dak was a fourth rounder.

Cousins was a fourth rounder. You know, you get good quarterbacks occasionally that you land on. But most of, well, I'll tell you, I was DMing back and forth with our good friend Sabah today. And Sabah said, you keep saying how unlikely it is to win a Super Bowl. without an elite quarterback. Well, it's also unlikely to win a Super Bowl with an elite quarterback. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.

But really, here's the bottom line. I'm not really talking about a Super Bowl, but if you want to go that route, eight of the last nine Super Bowl winners have been quarterbacked by future Hall of Famers. Now, Brady's in that category several times. And then I would add Matt Stafford, not a Hall of Famer, but a really good quarterback. And the only one that's the outlier is Nick Foles.

But my point really has been that the large majority of games won in the regular season and in the postseason, even if it doesn't result like with Aaron Rogers in multiple Super Bowls, the significant majority of games are won by teams with excellent quarterback play, elite quarterback play. Aaron Rogers, they won 39 games in three years when he won two MVPs. They didn't win a Super Bowl. They got bounced multiple times. We've seen that with a lot of quarterbacks. I mean, Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl.

But that's still the way to go to win a lot of games and put yourself in play in the postseason with a chance to win one. the fourth round, fifth round, seventh round, Mr. Irrelevant is the longest of long shots to win a lot of games and to compete for that. Most of the starting quarterbacks that have won, you know, the majority of games end up being guys that were at one point drafted, not just in the first round, but the top half of the first round. We went through that exercise like two years ago. I haven't updated it recently, but whatever. I'm getting sidetracked. I did want to ask you just your reaction to playoff weekend, because you didn't have a chance to weigh in on any of the games,

specifically the Cowboys being ousted again. You know, I didn't think the playoff weekend was the football was that enjoyable. I didn't think it was that compelling. Actually, the Jaguars were probably the most compelling. watch of the mall because of the uncertainty of Pat Mahomes' high ankle sprain and how he performed even added more drama to that game. But, you know, the rest of it, like Cincinnati, was interesting to watch because I think, you know, maybe for some of us, and I don't know if I'm included in this or not, who didn't take them

seriously as an elite high-level team, I think that changed with the way they basically slice and diced the Buffalo Bills. But that Prescott looked like he couldn't see red jerseys on the field.

Yeah. Didn't they? Yeah. I mean, at some point you say, didn't he see that red jersey standing right there? I mean, he has, when he's bad, he's hard.

and when he's good, he's awesome. But when he's bad, I mean, it's got to take the air out of a team to have your quarterback play like that. He was terrible in that game. I had Clay on radio this morning, Cowboy Clay. Because I wanted a Cowboys fan perspective because I do think it's interesting because there was so much excitement when they got through that game against Tampa last Monday night.

And there was belief. I think that Dak. And he was great. Wasn't he great? He was incredible. And so, you know, he accounted for five touchdowns. He threw four touchdown passes and ran for one. So, yeah, I think that there was a lot of expectation.

Now, you know, Clay gave me his answer. I, you know, before every season, I ask somebody, is Jerry Jones still alive? And if they say yes, I ask him if he still owns the Cowboys. And if they say yes, I dial back my expectations significantly. I know we won't win the Super Bowl. I know we won we won. We won much. Now, the Cowboys have won a lot more than we have over the years.

Washington has over the years. But, you know, the frustration has mounted for them over the years as well. But I do think the interesting thing is just Dak Prescott. Because I do think a lot of Cowboys fans have thought for a while, Dak Prescott can be an elite quarterback. You know, we can contend for Super Bowls with Dak Prescott as our quarterback. And, you know, there have been some injuries along the way. And then there were the interceptions.

And then he has this playoff game against Tampa. And so the belief was there. I think there was a lot of high expectations of him performing well, even against a great defensive team. And he put out a major stinker. And I think the big takeaway, I think, for a lot of Cowboys fans, is we were wrong. We don't have the quarterback. But guess what?

You can't do anything about it. You have them. Unless you want to make them the backup and start Cooper Rush. Yeah, no, you're not going to do that, you know, not at $40 million a year. So I think that that's a tough position to be in with all of that money, invested. I mean, he's a $50 million cap hit next year, you know, in 2023. It's only after 23 where the dead cap money becomes less and less, but it's still like 40 million in 24. It's like 90 million. If they were to get rid of them or trade them in terms of a dead cap hit, they could

spread it out over two years, but still. But the point being is I have been skeptical about DAC for a while. And I like DAC. And at one point, I did. did like him a lot. And I think he's such a good guy, and he's such a leader, and he's such a high-class person. But the bottom line is, he's just okay. Like, he's not a top 10 quarterback. We've seen him on those kinds of lists in recent years.

And I'm not saying just because of the lack of accomplishment in the postseason, I'm talking about what I'm watching. I'm watching a guy that in a lot of games doesn't see the other jersey. he's being different, you know, colored than the one he's playing in. The scope of his performances are so drastically different sometimes. Yeah. Just like in these past two weeks. I mean, you don't get more dramatically different than what we saw in these past two weeks from him.

Yeah. You know, and I mean, he literally looked like, I mean, if I'm a Cowboys fan, I'm saying, Jesus Benches, son of a bitch, and bring in Cooper Rush for crying out loud. Right. You know, and because, because, I mean, look, the 49ers are a great defense. I get that. You know, they're a great defense. But, and the Cowboys still almost had a chance to win the game, even as bad as that played.

Yeah. You know, the funny thing is, is as I was talking. talking earlier about the majority of teams, the majority of games have been won by teams with excellent quarterbacks. You know, not rookie contract or, you know, non-first rounders, but, you know, excellent, you know, borderline Hall of Fame quarterbacks. And the list that I was trying to pull up that I couldn't find I just found, you know, Kansas cities in the last 10 years, it's Chiefs, Patriots, Seahawks, Packers, and then Steelers. But, you know, the list that And a lot of that came with Rothlisberger.

You know, are your top five teams that have won the most games? Then it's the Saints with obviously Drew Brees for much of those 10 years. And then believe it or not, and this would be the first team in the last 10 years. Now, I know Romo was part of that. But the team with the next highest number of wins are the Cowboys. You know, so you have Hall of Fame quarterbacks for the top six winners of the last 10 years. you know, Mahomes, Brady, Wilson, Rogers, Rothesberger, Breeze that put those teams on that list. And then you've got the Cowboys there.

I mean, Romo, they won a lot of games with Romo, but they've won a lot of games, regular season games, with DAC. I mean, they've won 24 regular season games the last two years. So, you know, but, yeah, so anyway. There's what else Two other things in the Cowboys game And I saw this That pro football focus highlighted this Trent Williams versus Michael Parsons

In that game Yeah 15 pass blocking snaps One pressure allowed This guy used to play Left tackle for the Washington Football team And he seems to be playing at his highest level now

At what? He's been in the league 13 years now or something like that? 2010. He was trying to, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, he is just, he was just amazing

to watch in that game. Parsons only had one, he only had one pressure. That's what pro football focus said one pressure. It's funny because I was watching Parsons and he wasn't always lined up

next to Trent to begin with. And he definitely was doubled on a lot of snaps, especially dropbacks, but my God, watching his relentless pursuit, like kind of sideline to sideline, especially when they ran away from him to watch him chase down, even sometimes he may not have been in on the tackle, but he was really close. I find him spectacular to watch.

He has such a high motor. That's interesting. I would not have guessed that. I thought, look, I think Trump Williams did a great. job. But I think Dallas defensively was awesome in that game until really the second half for the most part. I think they got worn down and eventually the 49ers in those last two drives that generated 10 points or two of the last three drives, they started to run the football. Really with Elijah Mitchell more than even McCaffrey. McCaffrey to start, McCaffrey was a little

bit banged up. And it wasn't until really the fourth quarter that San Francisco started to move the football. I thought Dallas had a championship level defensive performance in that game. And by the way, I really tick some people off this morning on radio by saying if Kirk Cousins had been the quarterback of the Cowboys, they'd still be playing. But I really... You can't help yourself. Well, what I was really trying to say was if Minnesota had Dallas's defense, they'd still be playing. I don't think there's, I think that they certainly have a chance to have continued to play because they had such a horrendous defense and DAC, I think, wasted, you know, I have to put it on DAC. DAC was the number one reason they lost that game, the turnovers, and he should have had five of them.

That was a championship level defensive performance against a team that had been wrecking people offensively. you know, they wrecked Seattle. I mean, they had just been rolling. I mean, they hadn't scored Tommy here. I'm looking it up. They hadn't scored less than 37 in over a month. And they were held to nine points going into the fourth quarter and ended up with 19. Anyway, I haven't gotten, I'm sure you probably talked about it, but you and I haven't talked about it. And I'm real interested in what you think. The last play of the game for the Calvarez. Well, we talked about it yesterday. I joked about it that to me that looked like a play. I think I tweeted this out right after the play.

I think the intent was to have Zeke, and I think it was supposed to be Tony Pollard had he been healthy, that Pollard would have been the center on that play. And they were going to throw it to Turpin, who was going to quickly pitch it to Pollard. But Zeke was in that position. But when they practiced it, they practiced it without a defense. You know, they practiced it all we've done.

without a defense and they forgot that the defense may line somebody up on the center and knock Zeeke on his ass. Knock him over. I mean, it was just, it was embarrassing. The whole ass drive, I mean, there's not much of a chance with 45 seconds left that you're going to score a touchdown with no timeouts starting at your own six yard line to begin with. But I mean, Dalton Schultz was embarrassing.

Dak nearly took a safety on the first play. I know. It wasn't an embarrassing, embarrassing ending. Yeah, it really was. that for the game. Absolutely. I have a question for you. Because I think this is something I haven't talked about in

follow-up of the weekend games. And for whatever reason, I think you are a, I think you're a tight end historian. I don't know why I feel that way, but I think a lot of tight ends have been among your favorite players, John Mackey.

I wrote a book about John Mackey with him. So, yeah. So, where is Travis Kelsey right now. Travis Kelsey, like I was having this. My son asked me after that game, he had 14 catches in that game. And he said, Dad, Kelsey's got to be the best tight end that's ever played. And usually my reaction to when one of my boys says something like that about a player of today, the default answer is, oh, stop, stop. And then you'll come up with, you know,

you never saw Kellyn Winslow play. I mean, you didn't see. Tony Gonzalez for or Antonio. But you know what, Tommy? I started looking up some of these numbers on Kelsey. This dude is right now, all right? Most receptions by a tight end in his first 138 career games, Kelsey 777, Witten, 673, 104 more. Most receiving yards by a tight end in his first 138 career games, which I guess takes you through this season. You know, he was drafted by Andy Reed and Andy Reed's first season in Kansas City out of Cincinnati because in Andy Reed's final season in Philadelphia, he went to the link to watch Temple play Cincinnati. Temple had Andy's youngest son on the team. He was a freshman, a redshirt freshman running back.

He didn't play. But Andy Reid told the story that what stuck out to him that day was his center, and Kelsey's younger brother, Travis, and he knew he wanted him just from that particular game. And he only had like three catches in the game, but he said, I want that guy. And he drafted him in his first year in Kansas City in 2013 in the second or third round out of Cincinnati. Kelsey, most receiving yards by a tight end first 138 career games. He's over, he's basically a thousand yards more than grunk. Most receiving touchdowns. Now he's fourth on that list.

He's behind Gronk Gates and Jimmy Graham. I know what you're going to say, which is we're talking about a different era, tight end focus, much more passing, et cetera. And I don't know that I can say in my lifetime that I've ever watched a player better than what Kellyn Winslow was. And he had a shorter career. But he was also in a team that threw the ball a lot. I mean, the Chargers were the first to really, you know, Air Cori-L.

They were airing it out with Fouts and Jefferson and Winslow and that group. But do you consider Travis Kelsey to be in the conversation now of the greatest tight ends of all time? Well, look, I mean, you can't ignore the statistics, but you have to balance them with the era. What about watching him? We're talking about, he's probably not the greatest tight end in Kansas City history. Tony Gonzalez is. You know? So, I mean, if he's not even the best tight end in the history of his franchise, I don't see how he could be considered the best tight end of all time.

But you know what? It's a conversation that certainly opens up. Gil Brandt ranked, I found this online. Yeah. The personnel guy. Yep. And he ranked his top 14 tight ends of all time. Yeah, but when did he do this? because a lot of his lists are kind of old now.

Because I look at his list too. Tony Gonzalez, Kellan Winfell, John Mackey, Jason Whitten, Dave Casper, Gronkowski, Dicka, Antonio Gates,

Charlie Sanders, Ozzie Newsom, Shannon Sharp, Russ Francis, people forget about him. Greg Olson is on his list of great tight ends and Jackie Smith.

look, it's a good conversation. It's a good story. Yeah, I'm just saying the Brant wrote that list probably, you know, five, ten, five, six, seven years ago. Oh, I can't find a date on it. Here it is. I've got it. July 7th, 2017. So, you know, literally six years ago. Yeah. And I like looking at Gilbrant's list because Gilbrant really is an NFL historian and one of the great general managers in the history of the game as well. I don't know. In watching Travis,

Kelsey and he's got a very special quarterback too. Okay, so that's a big part of the conversation with Kelsey. Well, most of the great tight ends do. I guess that's true. Not all of them. Actually, not all of them. You know, you could argue that Tony Gonzalez never really did. Well, he did have Matt Ryan in Atlanta, right?

For those with the Kyle Shannon years. In Kansas City, I don't count, you know, Kansas City. I don't think he ever had. Yeah, he had Matt Ryan for five years in Atlanta, not Kyle Shanahan, though. Shanahan came after he retired. Kansas City, who did he? He played for the Marty Schottenheimer Chiefs, right? I'm looking right now.

Or was it the, yeah. I mean, I don't know who his quarterback, Elvis Gerbach may have been his quarterback for many of those years in Kansas City. I don't know, off the top of my head. But those chief teams, there were some good chief teams there. They just weren't Super Bowl teams. Yes, they were. He played from 97 through 2013. Right.

He played from 97 to 2008 with Kansas City. Yeah. I don't remember them having an elite quarterback set. Right. So he played in Atlanta with some of those good Falcon teams with Matt Ryan. And I'm talking about the falcon teams that got to the postseason. They got to an NFC championship, lost to the 49ers, went on to lose to the Ravens in 2012.

You know, some of the Matt Ryan years that were productive even before Kyle Shanahan got there and he had the MVP season in 2016. Actually, I think Matt Ryan's going to be one of these really interesting cases when we get to the end of his career. You know, people are going to talk about him potentially as a Hall of Fame quarterback. I don't think, to me, first blush without seeing his numbers and Pro Bowls and all pros. I'm pulling it up right now.

Ryan, to me, is not a Hall of Fame quarterback. First blush for you, before you even look up his numbers, is Matt Ryan a Hall of Fame quarterback? Hello? Yeah. No, he's not. Okay, so here, yeah, I mean, those years that he had Gonzalez, 11 and 5, 9 and 5, 13, well, he was 9 and 5 as a starter, 13 and 3, 10 and 6, 13 and 3. The Falcons had some excellent years with Matt Ryan in his early years, and he was throwing, threw for 4,700, 4,700 yards, 32 touchdowns, 14 picks in 2012.

When they went 13 and 3, they ended up losing that NFC title game at home against Kaepernick and the 49ers. And then, you know, when Kyle got there, that's when he had his MVP season, where he threw for nearly 5,000 yards, 38 touchdown, 7 picks. They went 11 and 5. Obviously, had the 28 to 3 lead in the Super Bowl and lost to the peak. Patriots. He's got he's got he was the AP rookie of the year. He's got four pro bowls and only in 2016 was he a you know, was he an all pro first team. He was the MVP of the league.

I didn't mean to turn this into a Matt Ryan conversation, but Tony Gonzalez did play and had some highly productive years with Matt Ryan throwing for a lot of yards for some of those Atlanta teams. Like that 2012 Atlanta team that was really good and got to the NFC title game, and I believe they blasted Seattle or Green Bay before they beat Seattle. They beat Seattle because by the way, that's where Washington would have played. Washington, the RG3 game against Seattle was Seattle then went to Atlanta and lost. Washington would have gone to Atlanta. And I always said that if he had remained healthy, Washington would have had a chance to go to Atlanta and win that game. But Matt Ryan was working with, okay, Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez and Roddy White.

So those were, I mean, the Gonzalez had 93 catches. Roddy White had 92, and Julio had 79, but he missed a game or two that year. You know what? Let me just drop this stat on everybody while we're talking about tight end. Is it Mackey? I like to do this. Yeah, I'm Mackey. John Mackey averaged 15.8 yards per catch for his career.

I mean, that's almost almost four yards per catch than Travis Kelsey or most tight ends in the league. Now, I mean, he had Johnny as his quarterback, but that's like the fifth ball time. Jackie Smith, who Gilbrand mentioned, who played for the Cowboys. Has to be the sickest man in America. When he dropped the touchdown pass from the Cowboys. He averaged 16.5 yards a catch in 210 games. That's a remarkable figure for a tight end. It really is.

What is Kelsey's average? What is Gronks average yards per catch? Gromps average per catch is like 15. Kelsey's? I think Kelsey's. Kelsey's is like 13. Yeah, 12.7. Yeah.

I actually think I think Gronk I mean Gronk is really in recent years Gronk would be the one By the way

Gronk also just a massive massive load as a blocker as well I thought you were going to say a massive load as an analyst Oh yeah because he's the new buffoon

that they've brought on to the set to replace Terry Bradshaw, I guess. Yeah. I'll tell you what, though, and I don't think I talked about this on the pod. Tony Romo, I'm done with. I mean, I've been talking about this for about a year now. It's so obvious he does not prepare for these games.

He's totally in there just winging it every Sunday. He's... It's... It's... Yeah, as we wing this podcast. He's annoying at 18 million bucks a year. 18 million bucks a year. They're locked into him. Oh, look. The guy, the top guy now is Greg Olson. Greg Olson's the man. Right? Well, he's not going to be once Brady retires. He's going

to take that chair over, and Olson will become the one of the guy. I mean, I don't mean, in terms of money, in terms of who's the best? Um, like of the top cruise. Yeah, I mean, I think Olson's good. I agree with you. I do. Kevin Burkart, I've always thought is solid. I just, don't think he's a number one guy. But I think Olson does a good job. I definitely do. Yes, he does. I do too.

Okay. All right. I'm trying to think of anything else from Playoff weekend that I wanted to ask you. I think the Cowboys situations, I said yesterday, I think Kellan Moore's. Yeah. What about the Bengals? I love the Bengals. I love everything about him.

I was most disappointed. with Buffalo's performance more than anything else. I don't think that I'm going to subscribe to this, you know, recency opinion where Josh Allen now just isn't really in Joe Burrow or, you know, Joe Burrough's class. I don't agree with that at all. I think Josh Allen is... I don't agree with that either.

I think Joe Burrow is spectacular. I think right now you just have some elite quarterback play going on with Mahomes and with borough and with and i think josh allen has provided that a lot i think buffalo had a lot to deal with this year you know playing the games in detroit there during the blizzard having what they went through with the hamlin thing i just was surprised at how they were dominated at the line of scrimmage in that game they were they were bullied they were both both sides of the line they were and i think the the story this week is all about patrick mahomes and whether not Mahomes is going to be healthy enough on Sunday to play like Mahomes. Even on one ankle Sunday

in the second half, he pulled off some amazing plays. We talked about this yesterday. I mean, I'm kind of thinking that just too, everybody thinks Cincinnati's going to win this game, Tommy. They're only a one-point underdog too, and yet no one seems to want to lay the point. I mean, think about this. The Chiefs have to be right now the lowest, favorite they have ever been. Oh my God, I just found this on my bookie. Was there news about Mahomes today? Because Cincinnati at my bookie right now is a one and a half point favorite on the road. There must be now a real feeling that Mahomes is not going to play. Andy Reid said 21 hours ago that he's doing okay. Oh my God, I'm looking at other shops. I see Cincinnati now.

I see him in a couple of spots at minus two. Holy shit. Minus, they're two-point favorite. The Chiefs with Mahomes, I don't think have been an underdog anywhere, let alone at home. I wonder, seriously, other than a game in which maybe he didn't play at the end of the year because he sat and rested, you know, if they had a division wrapped up and one seed wrapped up, I wonder if Kansas City's been an underdog during the Mahomes era. maybe his rookie year, maybe they were an underdog against the Patriots in that

AFC title game. Remember, he didn't play his rookie year. Yeah, I'm talking about his second year. Right, Alex Smith played his rookie year. Wow, that is incredible. I'm going back here. So his true rookie season was his second year. His first season playing was 2017-20.

No, it was 2018, 2019. So 2018, 2019 were they, they were an underdog early in his first season, okay? They were an underdog against the Rams in that 54-51 Monday night game. They were a three-point underdog. In the postseason, though, what were they against New England? They were favored. They were a three-point favorite in that AFC title game that they lost to the Patriots. but starting the next year,

because they won the Super Bowl the next year. So let's see if they were an underdog at any point. Ooh, they were. They were an underdog against Green Bay at home. Oh, he didn't, I don't think he played in that game. I think he was hurt in that game. Yeah, he was hurt for a stretch in that season, and they were an underdog.

Okay. In the postseason, 10 point favorite, 7.5. point favorite. They were one and a half point favorite in the Super Bowl in 2021 in the postseason in seven and a half over Cleveland, three over Buffalo, three over Tampa. Last year, 11 point favorite over Steelers, two and a half point favorite over Buffalo and a seven point favorite over Cincinnati in the AFC title game. Last year, just as they were not an underdog once last year, not one time were they an underdog last year. And this year were they an underdog at any point this year. Yes. They were an underdog at Tampa Bay in week four.

They were a two-point underdog at Tampa Bay in week four, and they won the game 41-31. But they haven't been an underdog at home in forever. Okay. Should we talk about the wizards? Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that right after these words from a few. of our sponsors. This segment of the show is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., and they will double your first deposit all the way up to $1,000.

Take the free money, fair point spreads, fair totals, fair prop bet numbers, excellent pricing. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They'll take real good care of you at MyBooky. I mentioned the Cincinnati line, which is, now the Bengals minus two. Also, a lot of public action on Cincinnati as well. The Eagles are still minus two and a half.

Who do you like right now? We'll make your official picks on Thursday. I'll have mine on Friday. But who do you think you're going to like in the two championship games? I like Cincinnati and Philly. Yeah, I kind of like Philly. I don't have a good feel for Cincinnati, KC. I kind of like Philly.

And at the same time, I keep thinking about how fast that 49er defense is, because it is so fast. I don't really have a strong feeling about either game, but I think if you told me I had to make one bet, I'd probably bet Philly minus the two and a half. My bookie.ag used my promo code, Kevin D.C. So the Wizards, after we had recorded the podcast yesterday, traded Ruii. Huchamura to the Lakers for Kendrick Nunn and three future second round picks. Woo-hoo! Now, the net effect of the trade is the Wizards are able, by moving on from Rui Hachamura and taking on Nunn, they're able to generate a $6.3 million trade exception.

We'll see how they use that. Kendrick Nunn is a meaningless part of this deal. His contract expires at the end of the year. Who knows? Maybe he plays well. And he had been playing well here recently for the Lakers. And then they get three second round picks. You know, that deal doesn't blow me away at all.

Like it's a kind of what in God's name are you doing? You selected this player ninth overall in 2019. Clearly he wanted out, you know, and also a big part of the Wizards, you know, moving and maneuvering here is they want to re-signor. Kyle Kuzma. And the two players play the same position and Hachamura is not happy about being a backup and coming off the bench. And, you know, this is one of those things where you better sign Kyle Kuzma. He's a really good player. He's better than Hachamura. He is. And he's only 26 or 27

years old. But what if you don't sign him? Here's the bottom line though for, and I'll let you weigh in afterwards. They just have really sucked. at drafting for a long, long period of time. Yeah, yeah. They've been much better trades. I thought things might have been, I thought things might have been different with Tommy Shepard, but he's got a lot of the arsonous firemen in them. I mean, they pull off trades every once in a while, and you're like, well, that's a decent

trade. I don't feel that way about yesterday's trade. The funny thing about Hachamura is in that draft. There were players that I really liked. And I, you know, whether it was Tyler Harrow or Brandon Clark, his teammate at Gonzaga or Grant Williams, those were the three players that I liked at Washington's position. I knew Grant Williams wouldn't go that high. And I was not a big fan of Hotchamura that year at Gonzaga, but I became kind of a fan of him recently. Remember, he missed a lot of time last year with that personal matter, whatever was going on there.

I kind of felt like Ted had, you know, forced the Hachamura pick because of the Japanese market. that it would open up to the franchise, and they did benefit from, you know, I've told a lot of Japanese product sponsors, you know, over the Hachamura stay. I actually ended up being more impressed with him than I thought I would when he played. I think he's a really good offensive player. They just suck at drafting, though. I mean, they can't. Do you know that there's only one player that they have drafted since the last time they played in the NBA finals, which was 1979, that has averaged more than 20 points a game for them. One player. One since 1979. And that player is Bradley Beale. Bradley Beal? Bradley Beal.

You know, you're right. I mean, no matter whether you think the Wizards, did gain something in this trade or have something that will benefit them, really, this trade has to be evaluated as the failure of the ninth pick in the draft. Yes. That's how it has to be evaluated. I mean, they had a ninth pick in the draft, and they picked the guy who did not live up to those expectations. I tweeted in December, on December 4th, I tweeted out when it came to Hotchamur, you can't

pay this guy. he's never on the court. You can't do another auto porter. You know, you just can't get in that situation. To me, he reminded me in some ways of the auto porter situation. Plus, what I heard is the Japanese money was not exactly rolling in. Okay, they didn't get my sources. Okay, I don't, I'm not going to dispute your sources.

I know that they, there was incremental, you know, new money because they drafted Rui Hachamura, whether or not it turned out to be what they were expecting or hoped, I don't know. I'll trust you on this. Okay. So, I mean, this couple with the fact that they're the 10th pick in the draft

from last year, their number one pick last year, Johnny Davis is missing in action that you have to go, you'd have to go find him at the, what, the name of the arena? The go-go, Jim, whatever it's called. Yeah. I mean, that's just, look, I like Tommy Shepherd. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but that's a big whiff.

These are big wits on his part. And, look, I know it's hard in the NBA. You have to get really lucky. But other teams seem to, there are teams that collapse, build up, collapse, build up and collapse in the time that it's taken the Wizards to still be stuck in the mud. Yeah, I mean, a lot of teams haven't gotten lucky. I mean, this is the league, and I've said it a million times, if you don't have a top five player in the league, you're not going to win the title.

So the NBA's weird in that, you know, what are you really playing for? Are you playing for relevance? You know, you want to be a part of the tournament at the end of the year? You want to be in the Eastern Conference Finals or the Western Conference Finals and be one of those teams that wins 50 games but really can't win a title. That's almost what you're striving for because if you don't have a top five player, you're not going to win a title. I've mentioned this many times.

The 04 Pistons are the last one that did it without an obvious top five player on their team or a debatable top five player on their team. And the Wizards, you know, they haven't drafted that player. You know, the closest the Wizards got to what I just described was, you know, getting it right with John Wall. He was the obvious number one pick overall, although he was never going to be a top five player in the league once we got, you know, we, John Wall was a good player. John Wall is playing well, although he's injured right now for the Clippers. The John Wall Bradley Beale days together are the most successful. the Wizards have been since their championship 1970s decade.

But still, they weren't going to win a championship with that group. But they were going to win, you know, 44, 45, if they stayed healthy, 46, 47. What did they win 49 to one year? Right? They got to within a game of 50. And they're going to win a series and they're going to be in the hunt for the Eastern Conference finals. Like they were two different times. but that was it.

I mean, that was so brief and fleeting. Do you remember we were doing this show together? Do you remember how excited I was that the Wizards were relevant again? I went to so many of those games, those playoff games. I mean, I was there for the John Wall shot against Boston. I was there for the closeout game. Not the closeout game. I was there for the Indiana game that where Indiana closed them out.

I was there for the Atlanta game when they closed Washington out when Pierce missed from the corner. I mean, the building was alive. It was fun. It's just, I mean, Otto Porter was the third pick in the draft. He was the third pick in the draft. I wanted them to draft Kauai Leonard. That's my claim to fame on the NBA draft in 2011. That's a hall of fame call on your part.

I said, that's my guy. I don't care where they're picking. I'm picking the kid from San Diego State. On your part. But they just have, yeah. If you're an NBA owner, what you need are playoff games. Yeah, to make money. You need home.

You need home playoff games. You need that kind of revenue. Short of winning an NBA championship, that's what you need. And they're not getting it anymore. They got it. during the John Wall era. But even that, you know, they were so close in that seven-game series against Boston that they lost. But you can get point to that they lost in Boston.

They lost that seventh game because they were not a well-put-together roster by the general manager. And they had John Wall had, I think, was second or third in the league and minutes played. And he was exhausted. but he ended that series and the Celtics knew it and they had nobody to back him up

that's how close they came and back up point guard you know to moving on to the Eastern Conference finals but that's what you want

you want home playoff games I think that's what generates interest I think that's what excites the fan base I don't think look I don't think this fan base is claiming NBA title or bust

Like I say, they've been walking through the desert since 1980. They're irrelevant in this town. They're irrelevant. Right. Totally. They've been walking through the desert since 1980, and they just want to drink of water. I like Tommy Shepard. I like Ernie Grunfeld.

Two of my favorite executives that have been in town over the last 15 years since I've been, it's 17 years, 18 years that I've been in this business. I really like Ernie. I really like Tommy. They are irrelevant in this town. completely irrelevant. And even the Gill years and then the John and Brad years, yeah, there was some excitement, but nobody really deep down thought that they could win a title or contend for one.

You know, really, to be honest with you, now that poor Zingas is hurt, and I don't know how long he's going to be out, the best hope you have, if you're a Wizards fan, is, and unfortunately, they're not that bad when they're healthy. They're actually kind of a 500-ish kind of a team when they're healthy. But it would be nice if somehow there were more injuries, not serious, not career injuries, and they somehow really tanked this season and ended up with a really good chance in the lottery to get number one overall because Victor Wimbunyama is that guy. Everybody believes he's the next great championship, you know,

impacting player. He's going to be the number one pick. There is no debate as to who the number one pick will be. And you've got to get into that area where, you know, you've got, you know, a one in seven, one and eight kind of a chance to win the lottery. And by the way, it's a deep draft in general. And there will probably be another, there usually are, another player or two that end up being really, really significant.

But that's really what you've got to hope for. Because I've watched them enough this year. When they're healthy like they were the other night before Porzingis got hurt. And by the way, Hachemura had 30 in that game. We're against the Knicks last week. They're not a bad team. And they can really score at times. But they can't stay healthy.

And they're nowhere near the top of the east. I mean, Boston, in Milwaukee, in Brooklyn are just, there are a million times better than the Wizards. Philly is, Cleveland is, Miami is. They're paying Bradley Biel more money than any player, any athlete in the history of Washington, D.C. Yep. Yep, and he's not available a lot of the time.

I don't know if I told you this, and I forget if we talked about this, may have been after our last show last week together. Did you see the John Wall appearance on that podcast? with the two Carolina guys. Did you hear about it? I caught pieces of it. Yeah.

I caught pieces of it. I read pieces of it. He was great. I can't believe what a personality he was in that interview. I never remember him that. And now I'm remembering I did talk about this last week, but not with you. And I said, you and I had him, we had him on the show three or four times, at least. I know that I did probably five, six interviews with John Wall.

over the years. And every time like we got John Wall in the show, I remember thinking it's not going to be a great interview. You know, John's just not a really good interview. Well, he was a phenomenal interview in this podcast. And it may have just been us. And he, you know, he wasn't comfortable with us. And that happens with a lot of athletes, especially when you don't know them really, you know, that they tend to be reserved. But John was not the greatest of communicators. This thing was phenomenal. one of my favorite parts is he basically blamed not getting to the Eastern Conference finals in that Boston series on Scott Brooks and said what you just said. You know, he substituted poorly and, you know, and we kind of ran out of gas.

And the real thing, though, was... And the Celtics knew that. The Celtics knew that. They could see it. The real, the thing that he said was just, you know, a coaching blunderer. He's like, he would take Brad and I out of the game at the same. same time. He said in game two, or maybe it was game one, they were up by, at one point, they were up by like 20-something points. They played Boston in the games they lost in Boston,

except for one of those games really tight. Like they could have won any of those games. And he said, he would say, don't take us both out at the same time. And by the time we were both back in, like the lead was down to, you know, five or something like that. Scott Brooks was not a great exes and O's coach. Randy Whitman was, though. But, you know, they didn't love Randy Whitman. So, all right. We got another segment of stuff to do.

You got anything else on the Wizards? I don't know. I don't know what to say about them. This trade, Hachamura wanted out. To me, I don't think they got enough, but who knows what they'll turn it into? Who knows what was out there? He obviously won it out. They want to sign Kyle Kuzma.

The bottom line is they've drafted. poorly. I mean, Johnny Davis and Corey Kisperd at 15 doesn't look like a truly impactful player. He's a role player. I really do like Denny Abdiya a lot of the things about him, but he's not a superstar. They didn't find a top five player in the league. Hachamura, obviously, by the way, right now the Lakers have Thomas Bryant, Rui Hachamara, Russell Westbrook and Troy Brown Jr. And Troy Brown Jr. is playing really well for them. Bryant's playing great for them. You know, they, Otto Porter, Beal was a good pick. The Vesley Singleton year was a disaster.

You know, then it was Wall, and then you go back, Javail McGee and Nick Young and Peshireoff and Blotch and, you know, even going back pre-Earnie. Maybe Ernie's first draft was Jarvis Hayes, I forget. Jared Jeffries. I'm going back, Juan Dixon was a first rounder for them. Kwame Brown disaster. I'll tell you what, their best. actually, but it wasn't for them. Their best first round pick

was Rip Hamilton in 1999. But that's not even in this century. Anyway. Actually, their best pick, and I still am upset that they made this trade, even though they needed a point guard desperately, Rashid Wallace was, I think Wallace's career is very underrated

as an NBA player. He was a part of those Pistons championship teams too. I think Rashid Wallace was an outstanding player, and they traded him for Rod Strickland after his rookie year, because they had Joanne, they had Weber, and they needed a point guard. And Strickland was a good point guard. He was good. Rod Strickland could play. Rod Strickland was fun to watch. He was fun to watch.

He could really play. Remember Rod Strickland literally right before Tip Off would get a hot dog from a hot dog vendor and eat it right there in the bench before he checked into the game. But, you know, back then. you didn't trade big for small. If you had a big guy that could really play in Rashid Wallace, I'm looking at him right now, he had a hell of a career. He really did. But,

let's remember they gave away Ben Wallace too. Yeah, they gave away Ben Wallace too. And Rip Hamilton and Rashid Wallace, who all ended up on that Detroit team championship team, right? I'm pretty sure they all ended up on the same Pistons title team. I mean, you know, the all-time blunder, if it was, because this one was back-to-back picks. In 1985, Carl Malone, all right, went to Utah at 13. The pick after Washington took Kenny Green from Wake Forest.

I'll never forget that pick. I'll never forget thinking, wait a minute, the mailman, because the mailman had a brand attached to him because they had made a couple of runs in the NCAA tournament. Kenny Green came out of nowhere, and Carl Malone was the next pick in 1985. And when you think about it, it's such a fine line. Like if they had picked Carl Malone, then the bullets would have been a relevant franchise for just say the next 10 to 12 years. Maybe they don't win a title, but they're relevant.

And then you're, and then by the way, you can't say during the Jordan era that they were completely, you know, a no-show if they just draft Carl Malone in 1985. Would have been nice to have Stockton to go with him. All right, we'll finish it. This is why when Ted bought the team, I mean, I just crucified him, and I hold him accountable for this ever since, for not recognizing what this franchise had already been through by the time he bought the team, which is now 13 years ago, and not making the immediate change to say,

we're not going to do business like we used to anymore. That has cost them ever since. It's really amazing that in this town where basketball is so important in this city, and we've talked about it many times, and then the football team has always been the number one story, that the football team hasn't won a playoff game in 17 years, and the professional basketball team,

team in town hasn't been to at least the Eastern Conference finals in 43 years. In fact, the game seven that they played against the Celtics in 2017 is the only game seven they've played in 43 years. It's the two franchises, which really I think would be one, two if they were good. I mean, the football team is still won in terms of the overall volume of attention by far. They've just been hideous.

They've been among the worst in their sport. This is the way I'd like to describe it. The Magic Bird era came and went and the Wizards missed it. I know. The Jordan era came and went and the Wizards missed it. The Holy Shack era

came and went and missed it. The LeBron era as common as about to end. And they've missed it. Yep. They've missed a lot. All right, we'll finish up the show with a few more things when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, a few more things to get to, but Tommy first tell us about Shelley's back room at 13th and F Streets Northwest.

Okay, everybody. Listen to this. I'm down here in Miramar Beach, Florida, and life is good in Miramar Beach, Florida. My karaoke bar, Kenny Dees, is right next door. I could fall off my balcony and land on the roof of Kenny D's. That's how close it is here, okay? My other favorite place, Pompano Joe's right on the water, is just a short walk up the street.

I mean, temperatures are in the 70s. I'm sitting outside, you know, drinking red stripes, eating cheeseburgers, life is good, okay? I want you to think about that. because there's one thing I don't have, and that's Shelly's back room. Okay? I'm not able to go to Shelley's back room. Here's what you can do.

You can have that. You might not be able to have this life right now, but you could go to Shelley's back room, sit there, smoke a cigar, you know, have a great whiskey from their first-class selection of whiskeys, and say, boy, guess what? Tommy wishes he was here right now with me, because he'd be right. no matter what I'm doing right now at that point, I'd wish I would be there with you. Once you walk out the door, I want to be transported back down the Miramar, you know, drinking beers on the deck of Pompano-Jose.

But when you're at Shelly's, you can take comfort in knowing that I'm jealous of where you are right now, even though I'm living the good life here on the Gulf Coast in Florida. Shelly's back room, 1331 F Street, Northwest, In the district. I got to get away. I got to get away. I'm ready for sun and water and golf. I'm going to plan a trip today.

That's my goal this afternoon. I'm planning. We have not planned anything for March or April. I'm planning something for March and or April. Warm weather, please. Two stories that I wanted to ask you about. Number one is Artie Moreno, the owner of the L.A. Angels. who had his team up for sale

has decided now not to sell his team. So why? Is it hard to sell a baseball team right now? This is not a good look for Major League Baseball combined with the inability of the inability of the nationals to be sold, is in large part because of the mass and anchor

that complicates the whole thing. But on the outside, looking at, most people don't know that. You know, most people were saying, wow, you know, I mean, this is an exclusive club. We always talk about owning a franchise is an exclusive club, you know. It doesn't matter what the franchise is. People want to get in. Well, now this is basically two franchises that were put up for sale that, for whatever reason, are not going to be sold.

We don't know about the nationals to pay honor. I'm sure they still could be sold. But Arnie Marino has basically come out and said, he's pulled the angels off. the market. Now, this obviously conjures up worst-case nightmare for commanders fans who think of the possibility of the same thing happening with the commanders. I don't think that's going to be the case, but it really reminds everyone that, hey, you know, somebody could change their mind. I don't think Snyder can change his mind at this point. Arne Moreno is not a bad, it's just a bad owner. He's not a corrupt owner, like Snyder is.

So it's not a good look for Major League Baseball, bottom line. I mean, you would think that people would be knocking down the door to sign whatever the check would be to own a baseball franchise. And apparently they're not doing that right now. Why did you use the word, the adjective corrupt owner for Snyder? Are you talking about the Friedman allegations? The Freeman allegation? Because he's a bad owner. The agreement that they signed with the state of Maryland to pay a quarter of a million dollar fine

for basically withholding money that were due fans. I mean, it's on the record right now. They said it's not a plea of guilty, but again, they signed a quarter of a million dollar checkover. you know, for their duty. So that's basically, that falls to me under the umbrella of corruption. They are under investigation with two of it. They have a lawsuit filed against them in the district, two lawsuits filed against the district, one specifically related to corruption,

as well as an investigation. The new AG has still not decided whether or not to move forward with both of them. Right. The team has asked for them to get moved to federal court. The other, right. And of course, I mean, because if it stays in district court, he faces a judge that's going to be very sympathetic to the district's point of view in that case. So you know why he wants in federal court. Meanwhile, Virginia, the investigation by the attorney general is still under investigation as well as the U.S. attorney in the eastern district looking into a criminal investigation.

That's corruption. Well, yes, if found guilty. If you're being investigated for corruption at this point, and you've already agreed to a plea in a corruption case, that's corruption. But without admitting guilt. Yeah, okay. All right, whatever you say. Well, look, I think he's probably corrupt as well. It's not the adjective I would use to describe Snyder. I would describe Snyder as a horrible owner, a horrible man.

manager, a horrible owner. I was trying to make the difference between a bad owner in Artie Moreno and a corrupt owner. So there was this New York Post story, which has gone nowhere in the last 24 hours. I don't know if it will or won't. That Bezos was potentially going to sell the post to clear a path to buying the commanders. Now, I talked about it briefly at the end of the podcast yesterday. I don't know I mean he could be selling the post

and it has nothing to do with trying to buy the commanders If you believe that Snyder has told Bezos Or Bank of America has told Bezos Dan's not going to accept your bid He does not want to sell the team to the Washington Post The man that owns the Washington Post Because they basically blarendes the post for the predicament that they are in.

What would make you think that, well, he sold the post, and Dan now forgets that he owned the paper when they wrote those stories about him? I don't really get the whole selling the post unless it's some sort of demand from Snyder. I don't, who knows what Snyder's asking for? Maybe Snyder's going to take the post. Denton, my producer, said, what if Bezos, Snyder wants 6.5 billion and the Washington Post for the team. And Snyder owns the post after this is all said and done.

You know, he's predictive enough to do that. Here's the thing, okay? I don't see Jeff Bezos looking at a Snyder demand and caltowing to it. Jeff Bezos could crush Dan Snyder. Okay, he considers them a flea. okay and I don't I couldn't possibly think that Bezos would say okay

if I just if I do this you'll sell the team for me really? No, I don't see Bezos doing that this is a far-fetched notion that doesn't make sense on a lot of levels and you're right the post could still be for sale

and have nothing to do with the Washington commander's situation as well and people look you know in football this has not happened.

I don't think where you've had the owner of such a big media company also own an NFL team. It's happened in baseball a bunch of times. But I don't think it's happened in football, really. I mean, off the top of my head, I don't recall. Like in Boston, right now, John Henry, the owner of the Red Sox, is the publisher and owner of the Boston Globe. Right. Okay. I mean, the Chicago Tribune used to own.

own the Chicago Cubs. It's happened a number of times in baseball. I'm not sure the NFL would be real comfortable. Well, we've talked about this before, and you didn't think that it would be a stumbling block anymore. But somebody has pointed out to me that the NFL is different from Major League Baseball in a lot of ways. Well, it wouldn't be the Post then. It would be the Amazon prime thing before it's the Post thing.

If that's a stumbling block to Bezos owning the team, then his relationship with the league through Amazon Prime is already a conflict of interest. If they view it that way. I don't think they view it. It's a conflict of interest. I just don't think they like one owner with that much power. But that's different.

But that's a powerful media institution, yes. Well, his money makes him super powerful. I mean, he's much richer than any, any owner in the NFL. That may make them uncomfortable. That may make them uncomfortable as well. Look, for me, I don't, the whole selling the posts to clear a path to buying the team, it doesn't, I don't know.

I doubt it, but I don't know. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that Dan would ask for that. And like Tommy said, Bezos would then say, oh, okay, let me do that if I can buy the team. But why would Snyder, like, if he hates the Post and he hates Bezos, he's not going to change his feelings towards them, towards him if he doesn't own the paper anymore. He was the owner of the paper when all of these stories of, you know, toxic workplace started to come out in 2020. By the way, his relationship with The Post has been antagonistic for years. But anyway.

But, yeah. In his early days of ownership. I know there was a relationship. They were bedroom buddies. I could tell you that. Briefly. For quite a while. What's quite a while?

When did it turn ugly? Probably after the, you know, I'd have to go back and look at who's covering the team. It's not important. It's been ugly for a long time between him and the post. What's so funny is that he's hated the point. post for how they've treated him and talked about him and written about him. And yet there we were owned by him, the radio station, criticizing the team on a daily basis. And we never heard a word.

Not a word. It is ironic. Which just tells you what, you know, he and Bruce were kind of stuck in the wrong decade when it came to kind of media impact on their fan base. But whatever. Here's the most important thing. The most important thing is he sells the team. Sell the team.

You know, I don't care. I mean, I do care ultimately that the new owner, I mean, on one hand, it would be great to have Bezos because he can afford to buy the stadium without any help from any of the jurisdictions, buy the land, by the stadium, build out a beautiful facility, have state-of-the-art this, state-of-the-art that, hire and pay big time money to coaches and to general managers, all that's great. Bottom line is, though, what we really need is we need an owner that has the means to do it the

right way, but that also is smart enough to hire the right football people and let them do their job. Because those are the organizations that win in professional football. You know, just because you're able to afford a beautiful stadium and pay your jeans, a lot of money. If you aren't the kind of owner that lets really good people do their jobs, it ain't going to work. We've witnessed that for nearly a quarter of a century. Cowboy fans have kind of felt the same thing. So I don't really care who it is as long as it is somebody new. I do still think that it's an overwhelming, you know, good bet that he'll sell the team. And I think it's mostly economic. I think there's a lot of that involved and the fact that he can't

get a stadium done. But all of the stuff is Tommy was ripping through all of the corrupt, you know, situations that he's in. I'd like all of those things to just be put on hold until the team is sold. I still think that there's an impulse there to prove and clear his name and that he still feels wronged by a lot of these accusations and wants to clear his name. But they got him to a point, whether it was the Green Bay game with the booing of Tanya, whether it was some of the other owners that said it's a gots-to-go situation now. The market's not viable with you. But I have been told, and I've said this multiple times, that that Mary Joe White investigation, which the commissioner made a big deal out of it, I think Dan's sitting there waiting for the results too. And it's such a

a missing the force for the tree situation. I don't think that's, look, the Mary White Joe investigation is the only one the NFL has control of. So I think that if the team sold, the Mary Joe White investigation disappears. Yeah, but a lot of, you know, a lot of what came out of the testimony in the Mary Joe White investigation,

oh, no, no, House Oversight and Reform, my fault. House Oversight and Reform. Right. Jason Freeman. The Mary Joe White investigation. Yeah. We will never see the light of day of what happens in that if the Antseltz the team. All right.

You got anything else? Nothing else for you, boss. All right. Have a good day in the sun and fun, and I will talk to you on Thursday. Okay. Back tomorrow, I think with Cooley.