The Kevin Sheehan Show - Buzz Williams To MD + Quinn On Jayden

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Kevin and Thom today on Maryland hiring Texas A&M coach Buzz Williams to be the next basketball coach in College Park. The boys also recapped Dan Quinn's press conference today in Palm Springs plus the NFL rules votes. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. It is April Fool's Day, Tommy.

And I'm not lying. I'm not fibbing. I'm not fooling when I tell you that Maryland just moments ago announced that they have hired Texas A&M coach Buzz Williams to lead their Maryland. men's basketball programs. So we will certainly talk about that on today's show. A show that is presented by, as always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation, windownation.com. If you need new windows, mention my name, they'll take really good care of you. Before we get started on, you know, the breaking news of the day. You know what I realized, somebody said to me, you correct your

texts a lot to me. And the reason that I end up correcting text messages is I voice text a lot. Do you voice text a lot? No, I don't. And I should probably because, you know, my fingers are so thick. It's always hard for me to text. Yes, I've seen your fingers before. They're very thick.

Very thick. But I don't do the vocal. I don't do voice. And you don't see so great. So there's that too. Yes. But whenever I voice text and I don't go back and check it, it's just error-filled. And instead of just leaving the error-filled text message the way it is in, you know,

assuming that someone will figure out what I was trying to say and assume that I was either texting, you know, too quickly or voice texting and it didn't get it right, I actually will occasionally go back and correct the errors. And, you know, like as an example, you know, I think I had a text earlier today. Let me see if I can find it because I just did this a little while ago. I was texting with somebody about Buzz Williams, actually. And I said, I wonder how much Texas A&M wanted him back. And that was my voice text attempt, but it said them back.

I wonder how much they wanted them back. And so I went back and I corrected it with two words and I just wrote him back. Just in the event that the person reading it said, I don't understand that last part of your text. And sometimes there are even more errors in it. Anyway, I don't know. I feel like there should be some sort of, you know, self-correcting. correction capability, predictive, you know, self-correction or whatever they call that.

I've looked at some of the settings and I think I have it on the right settings. But, you know, really what I should do is I should read the voice text before pushing send. Because right now I do a lot of, you know, premature sending. This frustrates you. Premature text sending. Do they have medication for that? Oh, they've got medication for what else. you, buddy. Don't you worry about that. Okay. Um, they got medication for you, but think about,

think about what you're complaining about. In this day and age, you can speak into a small device in your hand. Right. And somebody on, like, on the other side of the world, can read what you're saying. And you're complaining that it's not spelled right. It's pretty amazing what we can do now. by the way, I'm having right now one of those deja vu moments. Like this conversation that I'm having with you, I've had with you before. Just wanted to let you know that. My God, you are all over before. You are so wound up.

Well, it's been a busy day since the radio show ended because there was some big news. So I've been talking to a lot of people. Buzz Williams is the new coach at Maryland. The press release from Maryland, welcome coach Buzz Williams. Buzz Williams has been named the new head coach of the Maryland men's basketball program. Throughout his career, Williams has led his programs to 11 NCAA tournament appearances and 13, 20 win seasons in 18 years as a head coach. His quote is, it is an honor and privilege to be named the head coach of the University of Maryland

men's basketball team. I want to thank President Pines in Collins. Colleen Sorum, Colleen is the current acting AD, for this opportunity to lead one of the most prestigious programs in the country. In leading this program, I promise to uphold the history of Maryland basketball and make Turp Nation proud with the men who represent this institution both on and off the court. Please join us, Maryland writes, in welcoming Buzz Williams to Maryland, along with his family. as well. So let me just give you some of the numbers on Buzz Williams, and then I will share with you my opinion.

So he's been at Texas A&M for the last six years, 2019 through this just completed 2024-2020 season, led Texas A&M to the tournament in each of the last three years. He's been named SEC Coach of the Year twice. his 2019-2020 season and in 2022-2020-3. Prior to A&M, many of you will remember that he was the head coach at Virginia Tech for five years. Prior to that, he was at Marquette for six years, and prior to that, he was at the University of New Orleans for one year. Now, at Marquette, he took Marquette in three consecutive years, 2011, 20,

2012, 2013 to two sweet 16s and an elite eight in the 2013 NCAA tournament. And in that elite eight, Marquette lost to Syracuse in what was an ugly game, 55 to 39. And then the final four was the final four in Atlanta, Tommy, that I went to and worked. Did Radio Row there for that Friday and Saturday before the Final Four games, Louisville, Wichita State, Michigan, and Syracuse were in that Final Four. But that was the furthest he got with any of his teams, got to an Elite 8 with Marquette in 2013, then went to Virginia Tech, got Virginia Tech to the tournament three times, one Sweet 16 in his final year at Virginia Tech. and then he bolted for Texas A&M where he has gotten to the tournament three straight years

but has lost the last two years in the second round, lost in the first round of the 2023 tournament. Look, he's won over 100 games. New Orleans take that out of the equation. He was 14 and 17. At Marquette, he was 139 and 69 overall, 69 and 39 in the Big East. He won 100 games at Virginia, 10. He had a losing record in the ACC, in part because his first year that he got there was dreadful. He was 2 and 16, but he had a winning record in the ACC his last four years.

And then was 120 and 73 at Texas A&M, 56 and 44 in the SEC. He's got an overall 373 and 228 record. He's won 62% of his games, and he's been to the tournament a lot. and he's been to an elite eight, and he's been to one, two, three, four sweet 16s along the way. What else does Marilyn want us to know about him? Let me just see. Williams is one of 12 active Division I head coaches to win at least one NCAA tournament game at three different programs.

He's coached in 23 NCAA tournament games, winning 12. He's 52 years old, and his number of years is a head coach, 18, means he is the active leader in total victories and ranks number two in NCAA tournament games and victories for his age and the number of years he's been a head coach. His team's average nearly 21 wins per year. And, yeah, over his last 17 years, 13 postseason visits, 11 NCAA. tournament appearances to NIT appearances. Buzz Williams is the new head coach

at Maryland. Okay, buddy. You must have some interesting thoughts about this hire. I do. So this was not my first choice. I'll just say that. I am a Maryland person and I'll be

supportive and I think he's a good coach. Don't get me wrong. And I think Maryland will win with him. you know, at least at the level that they, you know, have been winning, you know, being a tournament team regularly under Mark and under Kevin, and, you know, winning more games than losing, being, you know, finishing better than 500 and in the upper echelon of the Big Ten. But here's why he wasn't my first choice. First and foremost would be that he certainly appears to be the kind of coach along the way

that has a high burn rate, you know. burns out, whether it's because the place he's at gets tired of him or he gets tired of them. You know, Marquette was six years, Virginia Tech was five years, and Texas A&M was six years. And, you know, it seems to be, you know, a situation where maybe he's already looking for his next gig once he starts his new gig. and I want somebody who is going to be here for the next 15 years. Maybe that's not realistic in today's college landscape. But there's definitely something there that happens after five or six years. You know, it's him or maybe it's the school, or maybe he just, you know, is a guy that loves change and wants to move.

doesn't like being in the same house for more than five or six years. But I always think that that is a bit of a red flag. And that was the reason that when his name was flying around last week, I said, he would not be my first choice. I would want Maryland to swing big. You know, to me, Buzz Williams is the kind of swing that Mark Turgeon and Kevin Willard were. Maybe a slightly bigger swing. I think his overall resume, certainly from a March.

standpoint is much better than Mark's was or definitely better than Kevin's was. Kevin had never been out of the second weekend of the tournament. Mark, when he was hired, had actually taken Wichita State to the Sweet 16. But this guy's been to, you know, four Sweet 16s and an Elite 8. And he's going to be a good coach. His teams are tough. They're hard nose. They defend. They rebound. And so there's a bit of that feisty, competitive, you know, backed into a corner, you know, Gary Williams' personality that, by the way, Mark had, by the way Kevin had. And I think that he's going to win. You know, I think he will win much more than he loses. and look at Maryland, and I've talked a lot about this, Tommy,

without you over the last couple of shows, because the last time we were together was on Thursday. Oh, by the way, I can't forget. I already mentioned it on the show. I can't believe you didn't start with it. Hey, hey, champ, hey friend, did you want to mention something about the last show? Tommy's final score prediction of Maryland, Florida,

was 87 to 72, and the final score was 87 to 71, and he can blame Deshaun Harris-Smith for missing a free throw with about 25 seconds left that would have been the last opportunity for anybody to score because Florida just ran out the clock for not getting it exactly right. So good job, out of you. Thank you. And... The surprising thing, the best thing about that is...

I don't know anything about college. I know. That's the best part about it. And you have your final four intact, right? No, no, I had Michigan State. Oh, right, Michigan State. I keep forgetting that. Yeah.

So no, I don't. Yeah. I have Duke in Houston, correct. But the other side of the bracket was Maryland and Michigan State, and they are no longer in the tournament. But good job out of Tommy to nail. Thank you, boss. Yeah.

Well, I actually mentioned it on Friday's podcast, I think. Maybe at the very end of it, because I had forgotten until the very end. But still, I mentioned it. Anyway, back to Buzz Williams. Buzz Williams, yes. Look, he is, he's different. Like, nothing wrong with being different. You know, where's the three-piece suits?

He's, you know, he's a talker. And he, you know, a little, quirky? Nothing wrong with that if you're winning ever. Here's the one thing that I like about this hire, more than anything else. In watching his teams at Marquette, Virginia Tech, and Texas A&M, I always felt like they were tough, hard-nosed, you know, try-hard teams. And at Maryland, because of what's happened here over the last, you know, week to now, week and a half. I think he'll have more resources than the last two coaches have had.

You know, we've talked a lot about Kevin Willard and Tommy, I forget we were on Thursday on this. For me, just netting it out. The way he handled his exit was not good at all. And at the same time, this had to be, and I think it became a look-in-the-mirror moment for Maryland, the last two coaches that coached here didn't want to be here. You know, so at some point you got to, you know, you got to take some accountability, look in the mirror and say, well, what's wrong with us? Why didn't these two good coaches want to be here anymore? And I think that there was a lot of that soul searching during the period in which

perhaps they thought they could still keep Kevin Willard as the head coach. and I think the resources available, you know, rev share money, NIL money, you know, overall compensation for the job, whomever the next AD is, I would imagine there's going to be an emphasis on someone who, you know, understands the importance of basketball at the University of Maryland. So he's not perhaps had, he didn't have the resources at Marquette or Virginia Tech that he's going to have at Marquette. Maryland, A&M's got big time money, big time money. However, at A&M, it really goes to football and football and football. I mean, football's one, two, three, four, and five. And then you get to spring football, which is six before you get to basketball at Texas A&M. You know, in many ways, Marquette was obviously a

basketball school, but the last two jobs, he's been at football schools, Virginia Tech and Texas A&M. Now he's at a basketball school, but I think he'll have, you know, top-tier resources in the Big Ten to go get players. And that's what it's all about now anyway. Do you have enough money to pay really good players? Coaching matters, of course it does. And I think he's a good coach. And that's what I like about this is I've always felt like watching his teams. They were hard-nosed, tough, well-coached teams.

But here, you know, in addition to a guy that's had a short shelf life, you know, in the places he's been, for whatever those reasons, I just don't understand why Maryland can't think big. This was my preference to back the truck up for Chris Beard to see if Billy Donovan. Oh, by the way. By the way is now met. as a candidate to go to Texas A&M. We just hired the guy that's going to create the opening for the guy that I think we should have gone after to go take that job at A&M. Yes. Yes.

And, you know, there are other, you know, guys out there that, you know, when they hired Willard, I said almost the same thing. I think Kevin Willard's a good coach. Now, I didn't talk about his short shelf life because he had been at Seton Hall forever. and his, you know, what seems to be kind of always looking for the next gig. Who else in this room is really good looking and better looking than the person I'm with? And that to me always is a bit of a red flag, but he's a good coach. But back when they hired Willard, I said, I want Petino. I want to back the truck up and pay Patino.

He's at Iona. He'll take this job. They'll fill up the building and we will win big. But Maryland doesn't think that way. And Chris Beard has some baggage, even though the woman who accused him of domestic assault, all charges were dropped, he is still living with. And she is still his significant other. You don't think Texas who fired him would love to have Chris Beard back at this point. But I don't think Maryland would probably entertain something like that.

look, maybe Chris Beard wouldn't even take the Maryland gig. You know, I think he has preferred here in recent years being in the South, you know, and maybe that's what, but I just don't get why a school that at one point, and it isn't anymore, was a clear-cut top-15-ish kind of a program, a clear-cut top-10 to top-15 job. I just, I think we should think bigger. And I'm totally supportive, and I'm going to be rooting like hell because this is my team. And this is my school. And, you know, I have a feeling there are going to be some really good moments and some really big wins and really good seasons ahead. You know, this sport comes down to March, so he'll be judged on what happens in March more than he will, you know, winning, you know, finishing in the top three. three or four in the Big Ten, winning 24, 25 games a year, being ranked, all those things that

Mark did a lot of, and, you know, Kevin did in year one and then this past year. But I just don't know why Maryland doesn't look and think bigger. That's all. Buzz Williams isn't a Tony Skinner, a Dwayne Simpkins hire. You know, those are far-fetched, you know, kind of out of the box because, you know, look, Dwayne's a Maryland guy. would have been totally behind that, but I think Marilyn, my preference was that they think big, and they try to go big.

You know, Shaka Smart, Chris Beard, Billy Donovan. I'm not a big Nate Oates guy, and I don't think Nate Oates' buyout would have been ridiculously expensive. Oh, one last thing on this. Maryland was also in a bind here. You know, they have to hire a coach quickly. You can't, the AD's, yeah. This is going to be my point.

my first point. Go ahead. Go ahead. I thought Marilyn was going to have to hire an interim coach. That's how bad I thought it was going to be. Yeah. I mean, I think they're lucky to get a guy with Buzz Williams' credentials at this point. Well, he wanted out.

He wanted it out, and they wanted them out down there, I think. But I think they were lucky those things took place. You know, because everyone is predicting at least for one season. dire, you know, a dire season ahead. And it may not be quite as dire now that you've got a coach who probably has guys lined up in his back pocket, you know, who he can move through the portal. I just think that given Maryland circumstances, they were lucky to get BuzzFle him at this point. I thought they would hire maybe have an interim coach and then wait, you know, the following season to hire some,

to have a better field to hire from, but they didn't have to do that. So I thought they were lucky. You talked about the resources and how you think, you know, this became an issue, obviously, that Kevin Willard made public on his way out as to the resources that you need to compete on the level that Maryland at least claims they want to compete on. but there's, I think, another problem here. I've talked to a couple of people who I think are pretty plugged in to the situation at Maryland. And there's a bigger problem here.

You saw the Len Elmore letter about family, you know, and even all that. See, I think that's part of a bigger problem here, is that these guys like Turgeon, and I think guys like Kevin Willard, they run into... roadblocks here, from what I've heard, when it comes to control, because they're not, they're outsiders, and they're viewed that way. And that was a problem, that was a problem. You mean like lefty? Who he played for?

Come on. I read the letter. I love Len Elmore. He talked about we can't swing big anymore. We got to, we got to hire a Maryland guy. That's the price. He actually had that directly, the opposite of that's been true. They haven't swung big.

I know that. Then there are no Maryland guys that are actually, you know, Dwayne, you can make the case for her. But he's the only one that's actually coaching. I know that. But right now, in the Maryland power hierarchy, I've been told it's much too closed an atmosphere. And very difficult for outside coaches to get the kind of control they need.

Yeah. And it's a turn all. Yeah. I don't know. I don't have a thought on that, honestly. No one's told me that that's been an issue, you know, over the many years. This was a higher, this was a higher. We're talking, going up to the board.

Yeah. The board of trustees level. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I've talked to a lot of those people, and I don't know that that's really the issue. I think this hire right here, back to your first point, I think that you definitely are, are accurate in that the bind that Kevin left Maryland in, you know, with the, look, there are other coaches, you know, if they had lost in the second round, they may have been

able to hire the guy that beat them, you know, from Colorado State. But, you know, having advanced to the Sweet 16 and then all of a sudden, you know, having a very surprising opening left them in a very short-term bind. been very adamant to say those, including friends of mine, who have been hysterical over the program being damaged forever, you know, you're not paying attention to the sport currently. You can turn around your team in one year with the portal. Maryland just did it. They had a losing record last year. They won 27 games this year. But I did think that the, you know, a possibility that next year was going to essentially be a year in which you almost had to punt, even if they

hired a good coach because you're late to the portal, you're late to recruiting, you know, that, you know, look, most coaches in their very first year don't win big anyway. Like his first year, let's see, at A&M was 16 and 14, didn't go to the tournament. He was 8 and, well, that was COVID. The next year was COVID year, 8 and 10. First year at Virginia Tech, he was 11 and 22. first year at Marquette. He was 25 and 10. They made it to the second round.

Kevin Willard made it to the second round in his first year at Maryland. You can do that. But I thought that they were going to be in a bit of a bind to your point. And like if there weren't other swings to take, I, you know, to your point, they probably are lucky that somebody with his resume was available. Yes. and not outrageously expensive on the buyout end, which the reports are that it's like two million left.

But the situation with him at A&M was different. You know, Willard, people wanted Willard to stay after this season. And I think Buzz Williams was starting to feel whether it was by his choice, by the university's choice, or maybe it was mutual, that it had run its course at A&M, which apparently, Apparently it did at Virginia Tech and Marquette as well. But, yeah. All right. But I've been told that unless something changes within the Maryland Mafia,

as it was described to me, Buzz Williams will not be here long either. Well, look, Mark Turgeon was here long. I mean, you know, he was here for 11 years, right? 11 years, 10 years? How many years was here, Maryland? I'm actually forgetting. So it's not like he came and, yeah, he was here 11 years. So it's 10 and a half, or 10 and a third, I guess, when he left in December.

But yeah, and this last situation was, you know, complicated to say the least. I think the biggest issue for Maryland, Tommy, moving forward, is that, The basketball coach feels like, you know, he has the support and the resources to compete at the levels of the sport that the fan base thinks it should be competing at consistently. Why didn't Kevin Willard have that? I mean, as I understand it. Mark Turgeon didn't have it either. I know that. I'll tell you why.

Bad A.D. I understand it? Bad A.Ds, bad leadership. Okay. I mean, because Kevin Willard, as I understand it, I mean, what was Kevin Plank's guy, that's the guy he wanted in that job. There were a lot of people that were really excited about Kevin Lord, no doubt. So when you have that, Gary was excited about Kevin Willard. Those powerful donors behind them, why did it go so wrong? Well, Maryland's, you know, commitment to basketball is less than,

some of the peers they had in the Big Ten. They were probably bottom third, not bottom of the league, but bottom third in NIL money. Rev Share, which is now going to be significantly important. You know, Kevin here over the last week and a half got them to at least commit to top tier levels of the Big Ten, maybe the top rev share number for the basketball program. But you had, you know, an AD and Debbie Yao who loved. football and loved Ralph Region much more than she loved Gary Williams. You had a strange tenure, let's just say, with Kevin Anderson.

And you had a football guy with, by the way, a lot of baggage when he came to Maryland from Georgia in Damon Evans. And I think also, you know, in terms of the not swinging big, you know, this, you know, this was not, for whatever reason, costs, salaries, buyouts, these were always hurdles for the university. And I'm not suggesting, by the way, as a state public university, that these things aren't challenging, you know, and much less challenging than they are at, say, a private, you know, school in, you know, on the main line in Philadelphia. you. But yeah, the bottom line is you've had two consecutive coaches that said, yeah, I don't like it here.

Not great. Much better situations than this place. Gary had challenges, Tommy. He had challenges with his athletic director and with the football commitment when they were in the ACC. see. But, you know, the perception has always been Maryland's a basketball first school, which is its reality with its fans and with people who, you know, follow the sport. It's just never necessarily been that inside the university, inside the school. Now, specific to Len Elmore's thing, because you brought it up, by the way, I love Len Elmore. I just, I read it and I'm like, I don't get it.

What am I missing here? They don't swing big. That's not been the problem. It's swinging big for people outside the school. They haven't taken one big swing. The last big swing they took was for Gary Williams, who was coaching at Ohio State. But he was a Maryland man, so that made sense. Lefty, his own coach, had no ties to Maryland before he came here from Davidson.

I know it was a different time. And I think the other part of it is, you know, you have to have options for Maryland guys to come back. I mean, Steve Blake threw his name into the hat. Gravis Vasquez threw his name into the hat. Maybe one of those guys will end up being a part of the staff with Buzz Williams. I think that would be a great thing. You know, to what Len Elmore's put out, how about hiring a Steve Blake or a Gravis Vasquez to be a part of your staff? I think that would be a big deal

and let them get the experience. I know that, but that speaks to part of my problem. You have a head coach coming in who's got to take on a guy on his staff that he doesn't really know. He has his own staff that he likes to put together. Yeah, he's got a very good assistant. He's a Maryland guy. Yeah, he's got a good assistant that hopefully he'll bring with him.

Got some good players too at A&M that might enter the portal. You know, to your first point, now you may be able to get some of the players from A&M. They were a good team this year. You know, they were a four-seat also in the tournament. Yeah, I just, what Len Elmore described just isn't the reality. They've never swung big. They've swung medium. Yes, they've landed guys that weren't Maryland people in Mark Turgeon and in Kevin Willard.

But they're, other than Dwayne Simpkins, and he's got two years of head coaching experience in the Patriot League. And I'm all for out-of-the-box hires, but if you want to go out-of-the-box, okay. But I need to know that somebody other than the school president and the current associate AD were involved in picking that out-of-the-box hire. Like, I want to know that Gary Williams was all bought in. No, this is an absolute.

out of the box higher, but trust me. You know, even on Buzz Williams, I'm hearing this was not necessarily a search committee hire. This was a President Pines, Colleen Sorum, Associate A.D., who may not even be here in a few weeks. I don't know for sure, but she might go with Damon Evans to SMU, that they made the final calls on this. And the school president made the final call on this. I would suggest to you that there's a chance that not everybody involved in providing information and thoughts on this process are thrilled with the result.

And at the same time, to your point, and it's a good one, in this moment, they got somebody with a pretty damn good resume that usually isn't available at this point. That's totally true. And he is a good coach. He's won everywhere he has gone. You know? And actually, if you want to just compare resumes, he's got a better resume than Mark or Kevin had coming in. Now, he's been a coach a lot longer than either one of those two were when they came in

because he's 52 years old taking this job. Kevin was, you know, what, 46 and Mark was in his job. his 40s. So there's that. Mark was probably mid-40s when he took the gig. Anyway, I'll have a lot more for you, Maryland fans, that listen tomorrow, because now I'm interested in, you know, is a guy like, you know, the big guy that he got from Minnesota that played for them this year.

God damn it, I'm forgetting. Yeah, what kind of toys is he bringing with them? Yeah, like that's what I want to know. Will Rodney Rice stay? Gillespie I've heard is heading to Tennessee. It sucks. I don't want that. But that's what seems to be in the cards.

The press conference has been announced for tomorrow at noon. Tomorrow at noon. Good. Carry it hopefully live on the show. What's the big dude on their team this year that he got from Minnesota? Why am I blanking on his name? Because I watched them a couple times this year. Oh, the dude, Pharrell Payne.

Is he going to enter the portal and come here? Bring Big Pharrell with you because that dude has some talent. Now, is he a superstar? No. Let me just see what he averaged. He had a great game in the tournament, though. God, I want to check the game that he had in the tournament. Yeah, in the two tournament games, he went for 25 and 10 and 26 and 10.

That good? I don't know. Yeah, it is good. He averaged 10.5 and 5 rebounds for this season this year. Yeah. But I remember him at Minnesota. 6-9-250 athlete. Yeah, let's see what he can bring from Texas A&M. They played Michigan in the second round of the tournament.

they actually were up in the game, and then they gave up a massive run in the second half. Michigan got hot, and Michigan ended up winning that game in the second round going away. So, yeah, I mean, I would love Rodney Rice and Gillespie to stay. That would be one hell of a start. And, you know, actually, as we're talking here, and it's the point that you brought up, with an interim coach, you're probably dead next year, okay? You're punting on next year, you know, because you're saying we need to hire an AD. We're just trying to buy time.

You're just trying to buy time. We're going to hire an AD. We're going to be patient. We're going to suffer through this next season. But we'll be able to, you know, get the guy that we hopefully want, you know, because we'll have a lot more choices, you know, when we go out and we're in the hiring market, you know, next year at this time. Because we'll know we need a coach, which is something we didn't know until a week and a half ago. And so there's a chance he can do well here in the portal and bring a couple of players with him and maybe keep Rodney Rice and who knows about Gillespie. I don't think Gillespie's going to stay. And Maryland could be competitive. And Maryland could be good next year.

It'd be a good start for Buzz to bring some toys with him. Let's do it, Buzz. I'm all behind you, winner tie. That was apparently the line with some big donor of Penn State years ago with Paterno. Somebody stood up in the middle of the meeting after one of the worst seasons Petino had. And it wasn't a bad season because he didn't have many bad seasons. But some big donor stood up in the meeting and just said, Coach, I'm all behind you, winner tie.

All right. You got anything else on this? Well, we can continue. I'm just kind of curious a little bit of Kevin Willard talk, maybe we could follow up with. Okay. Yeah, I haven't heard what you've thought about it. I've kind of gone through all of it to the point of exhaustion over the Friday and the Monday show. But we can do that. Also, Dan Quinn spoke today. And we got some clarity on where Brandon Coleman will be playing next year, position-wise. We'll get to that. and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation. Window Nation's got an unbelievable deal going on in the month of April. It's the first time I've ever heard this deal from Window Nation.

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Willard wanted that Villanova job the minute they fired their previous coach, right? I'm assuming that even when it became clear during the season that Neptune probably wasn't coming back, that at some point, because Jay Wright is a big Kevin Willard fan, I'm going to assume that this was a possibility for a while. Yeah. Okay, I just wanted to see what you thought. I could say that that's what it seemed like to make, that the minute the job became open, Kevin Willard,

if the job had not become open, I don't think you would have seen Kevin Willard's little act. at the press conferences about how persecuted the basketball department was. I don't think any of that would have come out. Yeah, because I guess on one hand, you can say that what he was trying to do was he was trying to give the reasons as to why he was going to exit a week or so later. He was painting its exit strategy, although anything he said was not going to appease most marijuana fans. I don't know what he was thinking.

Yeah, that's kind of the, yeah. I mean, I think the biggest problem, not to beat a dead horse here over the last three shows, but when he said, including to me, specifically, if I get what I want from them, yeah, I'm going to be here. Yeah. I don't think he was being truthful, clearly, in that moment, if you believe what we just said.

God, if he got what he wanted from Villanova. Yeah, but to your... point two, nobody exits without a vicious response, you know, in a situation like this. You just, there's no easy way to exit. But for him, I think at some point, hopefully, you know, he'll realize that, you know, whether it's people in his industry, whether it's reasonable fans that, you know, understand that, look, there are reasons people would leave. I didn't and have any problem with him wanting to leave. I know that there were some personal issues involved in the decision as well,

but a lot of it had to do with just the challenges he had at Maryland. And that Villanova ultimately was an incredible opportunity for somebody who's a Big East guy. And I said this this morning on radio, if I didn't say this on the podcast yesterday, I was 100% wrong when emotionally I said the moment we first heard that Willard's name, was mentioned in connection with the Villanova job, that the Nova job isn't any better than the Maryland job. It is a better job than the Maryland job. It is. I, you know, my reasoning was Big Ten versus Big East, but Villanova has much more of a commitment, more money. They are more recently a traditional power. And they have a powerful alumni base, too.

They have a very wealthy alumni base as well. So, yeah. Yeah. But any, look, this fan base wanted him out in January. They were screaming for Kevin Willard to be fired when they started one and three in the big ten. So if he hadn't beaten Colorado State, they were going to scream for him to be fired, the Villanova thing or no Villanova thing. So. If they had lost to Colorado State, everyone would have been called for his head.

But once they beat Colorado State, there was no easy way for him to leave. But the right way, I think, this is my opinion, would not to have done it the way he did it, which was to go scorched earth on the university. And, you know, to be in the process not forthright. You know, he could have easily just not answered the questions and said, were focused on the next game. No one would have liked that either. They would have screamed and called them the same names.

They've been calling him over the last, you know, 72 hours. But he would have, I think probably, and people, you know, that are reasonable thinking people would have thought differently about the exit because the exit was certainly not clean. All right. What else do you have on this? Okay. Do you have anything else on this?

You sure? No. Yeah. Okay. I'm looking, you know, to see if there's any news on any player reaction or anything like that. But why don't we finish the show with a lot of football and anything that breaks will have on tomorrow's show? Scott will be on this show with me tomorrow, just so everybody knows. It's been hard to have anybody on the show here recently over the last couple of days,

whether it's people like Gary or Scott or, you know, Patzos or anybody, you know, that has, you know, input and has been involved to a certain extent in this process. And that's why you've heard a couple of solo shows here recently since the last time Tom was on, although we did have Jeff Herman on the show yesterday. But tomorrow, Scott will be on with me on the show. All right, we'll get to all football after these words from a few of our sponsors. Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, last Thursday night, after the next home opener, I headed to Shelly's to watch the Maryland game. And I'm sitting there at a table with Justin, our good friend,

the political consultant. I'm sitting there with John Allen, political reporter who has a bookout now called Fight about the recent campaign. And we're all watching a Maryland game, and a very festive atmosphere. And it's down to the final score, and that kid is at the foul line, and I screamed so loud when he missed.

And John says to me, did you have any money on this game? And I said, no, no, no. But I had that score exactly right. And if I got that right, the whole world would have thought that I knew something about college basketball. And I don't. But that was an atmosphere at Shelly's. It's usually a very festive atmosphere with some interesting people.

Some people keep themselves. That's the thing about Shelly's. You know, if you want to start a conversation, you'll enjoy an audience with some interesting people. There's more than enough people there to do that with. If you want to just sit there, smoke your cigar, watch the game and not talk to anybody, Shelly's is the perfect place for that, too. Just ease into one of those soft leather chairs that they have and nobody will body it. Okay.

You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. Come visit them for some final four action at Shelley's Backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest in the district. At what point did you start to pay attention to the score and realize that you had a chance to nail it? Do you remember? Oh, I say pretty early in the second half. I thought it was possible. So you were thinking about it early in the second half? Oh, yeah.

Okay. Because you know there's nothing more important to, well, I can't speak for you. but being right is the most important thing in the world, right? Yeah, but being right on a basketball in particular, final score prediction is, you know, it's a bit like, you know, hitting the lottery almost. I mean, the odds aren't nearly as long. But I will say that when I have gotten the football score, you know, for our team close to right, I will certainly be, as the games going along, be into wanting it to land on that number.

But I, you know, what's funny is I, Corbyn, my son, was the one that said to me, Dad, what was Tom's prediction again? And didn't I text you? Of course, I probably voiced texted you and you didn't understand it. I texted you, what was your final score prediction? Because when Deshaun Harris went to the free throw line for a three-point play, I think that's when he said to me, he goes, I think if he makes this free throw, Tommy got the final score right.

And I'm like, what? You texted me at 9.48 p.m. What was your final score prediction? Right. Yeah. And that's when I turned to him and I said, oh, my God. You're right. He almost nailed it. And it was Deshaun Harris Smith, who had a rough season for sure. He entered the portal too. And I think, God, man, for a guy that came in with such high expectations, you know, I was thinking about that. I know we're still talking about basketball here. But just for a moment. You know, the portal works for guys in mid-majors who now have a chance to go play in the Big Ten or the SEC or the Big East. Notice how I didn't mention. the ACC. But it also works for the big-time recruits who end up at the big power for schools,

and it doesn't work out for them, that they're not at that point ready for it. And so, like a Deshawn Harris-Smith can maybe go down a level, have success, and then go back up a level with the way the portal works. In a situation like that, you know what? ultimately it probably was really good for the player. Now that we can come up with lots of examples of it being bad for the player and certainly bad for programs and coaches. But going down, people don't think about the going down move, but going down having the ability to transfer.

And by the way, there are NIL deals in mid-major basketball. He'll get paid to go to a mid-major school. And there might be some competition for Deshaun Harris-Smith, you know, at a Missouri Valley School or an A-10 school. But then if he gets his confidence and he develops maybe just a little bit later, he can go right back to, you know, I think isn't that kind of what happened with Walter Clayton Jr. at Florida? Man, is he going to be a great player at the next level?

Yeah. Well, no, he didn't go back down to Iona. He started at Iona with Petino and then went to Florida. from Iona. I thought maybe there was a big school and then back to Iona. Anyway, all right, let's talk some football. Dan Quinn today, NFC coaches held pressers down at the Palm Beach NFL owners meetings at the Breakers Hotel. And there are several things he said. By the way, somebody asked him about, you know, Jaden Daniels and exceptional rookie season and it sped up the team's original timeline for a rebuild.

He said, quote, you know, if he wasn't a dynamic runner, he'd still be an excellent quarterback, and I think that's a really big deal. He adds the value of mobility in being outside the pocket and creating. He scrambles to run and scrambles to pass. But if we had played him only as a pure pocket passer, he would still be excellent, closed quote. Totally agree with that. I think that's accurate. Absolutely. Now, you don't want pure passers anymore in the NFL.

You don't want just pure pocket passers that don't have mobility. If you have the choice, I mean, you can still win with them, but the major, like, let's just look at the best quarterbacks in the game. Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, you know, Joe Burrow is mobile. Now, he's not as mobile as the first three I mentioned. And then let's put Jaden into that conversation. You know, you don't have, I mean, do you even really have drop back pure pocket passers that are not mobile anymore? What about the guy?

What about the guy from the Chargers? Herbert can move, but definitely more of a pocketbot guy, but he's super athletic. He can move. I mean, Kirk Cousins, obviously, is just a pocket passer, but it's limiting for him now in today's game. Jared Gough. Jared Gough is the one that's played at a pretty high level who is not, you know, who does not have mobility that can really be relied on as a weapon.

Am I forgetting anybody else? I don't think so. But Quinn was 100% right about Jane. Yeah, agreed. Still be a stud. Yeah. He said, but to help, so he was talked about like, you know, how do and will opposing defenses who have now film of, by the way, 20 games, they played 20 because they played three in the postseason, will they start to pick up on things that they can exploit? And he said, quote, You want to go back through and you want to look at these 20 games and say, what were the looks that came up? So he digs a lot in each week.

What is the team doing? What are the looks? We played a few hundred more no huddle snaps than the rest of the league. And I like that we had uniqueness doing that. But you're definitely on the right track to find out if a team tries a certain scheme or things he always says to go. There was a lot thrown at him in his first 20 or so games. Yeah, I think, you know, I didn't realize, by the way, I knew they led the league in No Huddle Snaps. I didn't realize it was a few hundred more than the next team.

But when you, you know, have figured stuff out, no huddle may prevent you from taking what you've learned and executing upon it more often than not because you can't sub. Yeah, we actually like this package in this down and distance because this is what they like to do, except we can't get that package out into the field because they're going quickly. So he also talked about Brandon Coleman, who started last year at Left Tackle as a rookie. And since they traded for Laramie Tunsell, of course, Tunsell's going to be the starting left tackle. And he said, so, you know, he was asked, I think by J.P. Finley, so what does that mean for Brandon Coleman? And he essentially said they're going to start him out at right tackle. You know, he's going to go to the right side.

Now, Andrew Wiley is the team starting right tackle, and he talked about competition at the position where one of them, you know, who loses that competition, could move inside to guard because Sam Cosme, you know, had that ACL surgery, obviously, in the playoffs. And he's, you know, probably not going to be ready to start the season. I'm just guessing. I'm thinking that Brandon Coleman starts at right tackle. Andrew Wiley moves inside.

And then when Sam Cosmy comes back and is ready to go, Andrew Wiley sits. That's going to be my guess right now. But we've learned one thing about this group. They mean it when they say competition, except a quarterback. They mean it. And so if Wiley is more advanced and better suited to start

the season at right tackle than Brandon Coleman, then we could see Coleman at right guard until Cosmy's ready. So we did learn that he's, you know, moving to the right side and he's going to compete for the right tackle position first. I think that was really it. You know, there was one other thing that I thought was interesting because he was asked about the... the Eagles push push.

Oh, God, I'm so sick of that. And he said basically, you know, the same thing that Adam Peters has said and that he has said before. They don't have an opinion on what the league should do about it, which is really smart, because you don't want to create bulletin board material as being a team that's against the tush push. because you're the team that's going to be impacted the most by either the elimination of it or the continuation of it. And they both are in lockstep, Tommy. I don't know if you've picked up on this. Answering the question, yeah, we're concerned about figuring out ways to stop it.

That's what we're focused on. Really smart to handle it that way. Don't give an opinion on it. They're in your division. imagine you say, yeah, I don't like the play, I don't like the way it looks aesthetically, I think it's an unsafe play, we're going to vote against it. In fact, Washington's owner, Josh Harris, should abstain on that vote. Shouldn't vote.

Or if he votes for it, you know, do they, do we end up finding out who votes for what? Sometimes we do, I feel like. But it's the smart answer to say, no, we're just focused on trying to stop it, assuming it's going to be. a part of the game. I mean, they're very good at it. We've got to figure out a way to stop it. Where, by the way, if we jump our linebacker over the line of scrimmage on three straight plays, we don't award, get a touchdown awarded to the other team. Yeah, so that was kind of it as far as Quinn. So you're sick of Tush-push-pushed off. It really, it has no interest for me whatsoever. Why?

Well, because I am out of the school that says, you know, figure out a way to stop it. I'm on the opposite side. I want it banned for a couple of reasons. You know, one of the reasons, by the way, we can get to this right now. A lot of the rules today were either tabled, they were rejected, or they were passed. And I'm going to go through them real quickly, but we'll start with the tush push. So that was tabled today. One of the reasons it's tabled, according to Maski, who does a really good job reporting on all this stuff with owners meeting stuff, said that they only had 16 votes.

You need 24 to pass it. So they tabled it for now. One of the reasons it's been tabled is that the Green Bay Packers who proposed the change made it about safety. Well, there's no data that suggests that this is an unsafe play at this point. That's a problem. If you're going to say, let's ban this play because it's unsafe, and there's no data to sort of. support that it's been an unsafe play, that's a problem. I've said for a while now that the other reason they've given pace of play would be the

thing that I would argue. You know, first of all, you cannot stop defenses from doing whatever they need to do within the current rules to stop that play. Like what Washington did, sending their linebacker trying to time the snap and nail the quarterback flying through the air. at the time that he receives the snap, even though, because that was a goal-to-go situation at the one, and they weren't going to lose based on off-sides,

you've got to let the defenses try to answer this and try to stop it. And I think that that can create a pace of play issue, which is what we saw in the NFC championship game, it actually got to the point where it was a bit ridiculous, and we all found out that touchdowns could be awarded, which, thank God, they didn't do that. If they had awarded Philadelphia touchdown, They may have, you'd have the 24 votes, I bet, to ban it.

The other thing, too, is this isn't specifically pace of play, but Philadelphia doesn't just use it on fourth down occasionally. They use it on third down. You get two consecutive plays of the tush push, third and two and a half, and then fourth and one. I just don't think that that's football. I don't want to watch that for consecutive plays. I want to see Sequin Barclay get the ball. I want to see a traditional quarterback sneak.

I just, I don't like the play. I don't like the way it looks. I don't think it looks like football. But beyond that, I think there is kind of a pace of play threat with it. That maybe is a better argument than the safety risk. So anyway, that got tabled. You don't want to say anything else about the Tush push because you're sick of it, correct? Right, correct.

Okay. Here's the thing that I really am upset that it got rejected. I wasn't expecting it to pass, but to me, I can't stand a legal contact in defensive holding being an automatic first down. It was presented to the owners, and they rejected that rule. It's going to remain an automatic first down. The proposal by Detroit was that it was that it. would turn into just a 10-yard penalty. And then if that became a first down, so be it.

If it wasn't a first down, then it would be, you know, let's say it was third and 17, now it would be third and seven. I think awarding a team a first down, especially in the situations, not all situations are the same, but especially in those third and 19 where the teams running a give-up play anyway to get better punting position, a bubble screen, a traditional screen, a draw. Now, a draw you don't get those penalties, but on a bubble screen to see for six yards so that they can punt from six yards up the field. And you see a flag dropped on the other side of the field for a legal contact. And all of a sudden, they got a first down.

I just think you got to earn it more to get a first down. And I think it's one of the more frustrating penalties for fans to deal with. But that was rejected. So it continues to be an automatic first down. Over time, Tommy, has been. been changed. It is now going to be in the regular season, what it is in the postseason. Both teams are guaranteed at least one possession. However, they kept the overtime to 10 minutes. Everybody thought that if they adopted this, they'd adopt it at a 15 minute overtime. But they adopted it

at a 10 minute overtime. I think that's nuts. And I'll explain. I'll explain. Explain why. First of all, you can take in a 10-minute overtime where the other team is guaranteed a possession. Now you can take your time in trying to drive the ball down the field and score leaving them with the least amount of time possible to answer, whether, by the way, it's a field goal or a touchdown. 10 minutes, we see 8 minute and 9 minute and 7 minute drives all the time. You know, the other thing about that rule in the playoffs, and Kyle Shanahan messed it up in the Super Bowl two years ago, but you'll start deferring if you win the coin toss. You don't want the ball now on the coin toss if you're guaranteed a possession. Because when you get your chance with the football,

you know exactly what you need, just like in college, except it's played differently, but you know, do I need a three? Do I need touchdown? You know, what do I need? And if you need points, you have four downs now to get it. So there is a massive advantage to taking the ball second in overtime now. The other team scores, you're going to be guaranteed the ball. Now you know what you need in terms of three to tie, more than three to win, seven to tie, you know, whatever it is, and you'll get the fourth down because you can't punt.

So now you've got four downs offensively. But the caveat there is it should be an easy no-brainer you default if you win the toss. But in a 10-minute overtime, some people might think to themselves, damn, we can't stop them. They've gone on three long drives. by the time we get the ball back, we're going to have about two minutes to go. So maybe we do want to take it first.

I still think the default will be to defer because there are just too many advantages of getting the ball second in that kind of an overtime. The other thing, too, and I did not see anything written about this, but I think you've got to give each team three timeouts now in that overtime. You only get two now in overtime.

And the reason I say three in a 10-minute overtime, you've got to give that team on defense a chance to use their timeouts so that they give their offense the ball with time left on the clock if it's in the midst of a super long drive. So that's what we're going to see next year. I'm surprised. Like it's a safety reason again, 15 minutes instead of 10. I mean, come on, man.

How many overtime games do you play a year? One on average? Like an extra five minutes? and by the way, there's no guarantee it'll go an extra five minutes. I think that's silly, personally. What else here? The players union will always opt for the shortest game. Yeah, no doubt.

Like in baseball. Yeah. The kickoff rule. Nobody likes to work extra, and they're not getting paid extra for it. The kickoff return rule was made permanent with the tweak that everybody was expecting, which is touchbacks now will come out to the 35-yard line, not the 30-yard line. Last year, with the new kickoff rule, the number of returns went from 21.8% of the kickoffs to 32.8% of the kickoffs. They thought it would go to 50% plus it didn't, because a lot of

teams still chose to kick it and give the team the ball at the 30. They now expect, with the 35 being the punishment for a touchback, that 60 to 70% of the kickoffs will be returned. I think the 35 is a much stiffer penalty than the 25 to the 30 was last year. I think it's too much personally. I think, you know, offense is taking over from their own 35-yard line. You're two first downs away from field goal range. But it's certainly now an incentive for teams to kick it into the landing zone. and force a return

rather than kicking it out of the end zone. So we'll see with that. And then there is an expansion of replay assist, meaning the call-downs to say, hey, that wasn't a face mask, you know, rather than forcing teams to, well, penalties not challenged. By the way, non-flagged penalties

can't be replay-assisted, but flagged plays like horse collars and face masks, roughing the passers, those kinds of things, can be replay assisted. And then lastly, that was passed. The overtime was passed. The automatic first down rejected. The kickoff rule passed, push, tabled. And then lastly, the playoff seeding proposal to seed the teams once you have the seven

that are in based on four division winners and three wild cards. that was tabled for the time being. I'm in favor of that. I think once you, you know, determine the playoff teams, which I think a 7-10 division winner, fine. I want the divisions to remain important. I don't want the divisional format messed with. But once a 7-10 team is in,

they should not be able to host a game against a team that's 12 and 5 or 13-4. And I would seed based on best records. That was tabled as of now. I think that they're not going to pass that. That would be my guess. I don't think they will either. But I think it's competitively fair to pass that.

I don't think a 14 and 3 or a 15 and 2 team that wasn't the one seed should have to travel to, six and 11 division winner, which is possible. Now, that's the extreme, but we've seen 7 and 10, we've seen 7 and 9, we've seen 8 and 9, we got, you know, Washington was 12 and 5. They had to go to 10 and 7 Tampa last year. Yeah. Didn't bother them, though, did it?

They just went a near one. All right. Tampa, Detroit, no worries. What did you say? They went to Tampa. They went to Detroit, no worry. No problem. They were good.

All right. What else you got? I got one last personal thing. Okay. I went out to, I think you'll appreciate this. Some people will. I went out to dinner last night. At a new place in Frederick, it's called the Visitation Hotel.

It's a married hotel. It's a converted monastery in downtown Frederick. Right. So the hotels, but they have a restaurant in there called the White Oak Tavern. And it's run by these brothers to Votagio brothers. They're famous. They've got two or three restaurants in Frederick. And this place called the White Oak Tavern, the bar is on, it's like a church, okay, with high ceilings, stained glass windows,

but the bar is on the altar. Really? The altar is intact. Yes. The altar is intact. Mm-hmm. And you sit at the bar and, you know. What's the name of this place again?

I want to see the picture. It's called the Y Oak Tavern. The Y? W-H-W-Y-E Oak. Okay. Tavern. And it was pretty cool, but it's, It's a point of controversy for some people who don't like the idea that a former altar is being used.

I don't have a problem. Well, it's a former altar. Yes. Yeah. Yes. It has created some controversy. Wow. I'm looking at it right now.

Pretty wild. Yeah. It's pretty wild. It was a great. I had a great meal. You know, and, you know, I, you know, I, I don't think when they, when, I don't think, I think there's some people that don't think you should be pounding down amber ales at the altar. You should just drinking sips of wine.

Um, my, I just wanted to mention that was, that was my night last night. And it was a pretty good place. I went to a couple of holiday parties, uh, for my wife's company at the National Cathedral, where, I mean, it was pretty, first of all, it's a spectacular. building. And, you know, there are bars and, you know, buffet stations set up all over with altars and pews and everything else, you know, kind of around it. It was kind of odd, but it was also very, very beautiful because it was Christmas time and it was decorated. And I always, like, they had it there, I think, two straight years and I just said, this is pretty wild. Like, just to be in here, you know, pounding beers and cocktails. and, but yeah, that's, what a, it looks like a beautiful spot.

Was the food good? Food was good. Okay. Yes. The food was good. I highly recommend it to everybody. It's a very interesting building. You know, it's a monastery.

So it's an interesting thing. Look, there's a lot of good places to eat in Frederick. You know, it's a great restaurant town. So. Hold on. That may be the title of the. podcast. Frederick, great restaurant town.

Who knew? All right, brother. Anyway, one last thing. Yeah. The National Cathedral? You know who's buried at the National Cathedral? Yes. Who?

You've told me this before. Yes. Well, I'll tell you again, unless you want... Go ahead. Tell me. Helen Keller. Helen Keller. That's a lot.

not what you've told me where I'm thinking of something else. No, I may have told you Joe DiMaggio is buried there, but that's not true. It's Helen Keller. She is buried there. Why was she buried there? Wasn't she from the South, or am I thinking? Helen Keller and the woman

who taught her how to communicate, Anne Sullivan, are both buried behind the chapel of St. Joseph, I'll see you at the Washington National Cathedral. Okay. Wow. I don't know why. You know what? I have something to mention here at the end of the show.

In fact, I'm going to play it for you at the end of this show, but I think it also makes sense to watch it. So this is not up Tommy's alley. But the women's final four games were last, night. And I'm not saying that it was up my alley either, although I did follow the Terps, and they actually nearly knocked off South Carolina last week. Good for them. But in one of the Elite 8 games, TCU lost to Texas 58 to 47. Haley Van Liff plays for TCU. She's been a major star in the women's game for the last few years, you know, along with Angel Reese and, you know, Caitlin Clark

and Juju Watkins. This was her fifth year. She transferred from LSU to TCU to player final year in Fort Worth, a school, by the way, that I'm very familiar with because I sent my oldest son to TCU and loved it. They lost last night, and she was a part of the group of players up on the podium for the post-game press conference. Now, I don't know much about Haley Van Liff until I watched this. This morning, it just popped up on my phone and I watched it and then I kind of read sort of the background. She has been a great player. She's been one of the top earning NIL players of these last few years.

But she's had a lot of mental health issues. And she was asked, you know, now that her college career is over about the journey. And it's about a two minute and 50 seconds or so answer. But it was very touching, very moving. There's a lot in there that you can just tell that she really went through it, but she's really in a much better spot now, which you cheer for, I do. And, you know, there was also a reference to her father and her family. She said at one point, you know, my family, which I love and I'm connected to and, you know,

they've been the greatest, but they're a lot. She said there a lot. And she actually, you'll hear her, she refers to her father, you know, the growth of her and her family during this process. And she said her father sent her text yesterday morning before the game that said, you know, the son's going to rise tomorrow. So it doesn't matter what happens, win or lose, just go out and have fun. And she said that was, and she, you know, was very emotional. And she said that's an unbelievable amount of growth for my. father to send that and for me to receive it as well as I did. And I just thought, not knowing anything

about the father or the family, I think what I learned from that is she probably had very demanding, you know, high expectation parents, which, you know, there's nothing wrong with that as long as there's balance. And oh, by the way, the kid is the same way and willing to deal with it. I don't know if it ended up being the reason for mental health issues. But she talks about suicide in this. She talks about having to be medicated. And I just, when I watched it this morning, I'm like, wow, man, there's a lot in that answer. And so I'll play it for you on the way out. And Tommy, if you haven't watched it, spend three minutes and Google the Haley Van Liff press conference from last night after the game. It was really interesting. Actually, I've seen a lot of people.

people, it went viral last night, but it's, it's clipped up a lot. You almost want to see the whole thing from start to finish, which is available on YouTube. But anyway, all right, that's it. I'll do that. Welcome to town, Buzz Williams. All right. We love you, winner tie. All right, Tommy. I'll talk to you later. Okay, boss. Yeah, um, my journey. It's hilarious because when I was like a sophomore, I was like, who would ever take their fifth year? Like, why would anyone want to be in college for five years? Well, that's funny because, yeah, I am.

But it was, it's been, man, it's been certainly a journey. And nothing I expected. It was hard. It was a lot of nights of being like, I feel like I'm, God has put this thing on my heart to be great, but it's not working out right now. And a lot of times I had to look at myself in the mirror and just be like, what do you want, Haley? Like, who are you? And I'm grateful for it.

I'm grateful for the fact that he gave me a hard journey because I would not be the woman I am. sitting up here without it. And so I really praise God for the struggle and the suffering. I praise him for the nights where, you know, I didn't want to be alive anymore. I praise him for the nights that I was on medication because I couldn't sleep or eat. And it's painful to talk about it, but it's really how beautiful life is. So I'm sitting up here now. with women that I love and a coach that I love and a team that I love. And we aren't even sad about losing. We're sad that we aren't going to see each other probably next week.

So my journey has been crazy. I'm super grateful for it. Wouldn't have had it any other way. And my family, another reason I'm grateful for this group is because my family is a lot. I love them to death. they are my heartbeat. I live and die for my family, but they are definitely a lot. And they have just welcomed my family and loved them and built relationships with them.

And that's not common. That's definitely not common in every program. And so it's a testament to the people that I play with, the people that coach me, but also, you know, my family. My family kept me here when I was going through hard times, and they know that. They know what they mean to me. And I know that I've grown in life, and they have grown with me when the text that I got from my dad today was for the game.

It was, the sun is going to rise tomorrow no matter you win or lose, so go out there and have fun. And that's a lot of growth for him. That's a lot of growth for me to accept that text for him. So love my family, and I can't wait to go see them after this. Our final question comes from the left aisle.