The Kevin Sheehan Show - Can Sam Save Ron?

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Kevin and Thom with an eclectic menu of excellence today. It starts with Commanders' talk. Lots on Ron Rivera continuing to hitch his future wagon to Sam Howell and whether or not it will work. Can Howell save Ron's job if he continues to play well? The boys talked about that while also putting a bow on the Chase Young conversation. Then came pinball machines, Netflix's "All The Light We Cannot See", Frank Howard's funeral, Harbaugh to Washington, Tomlin to Washington, Jokic, the Wizards, Thom's Commanders-Seahawks prediction, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show presented by Window Nation.

Call them at 86690 Nation or go to WindowNation.com. They'll take very good care of you. You mention my name and you'll get a free estimate. Sorry about yesterday. Tom, Tom is privy to a lot of what goes on in the production. of this podcast. When I say privy, he doesn't participate in any of it, nor has he been asked to participate in it. But occasionally things will start with, you know, a show and we're having a conversation, and then I'll say, uh-oh. And he says, oh, you're not recording. Yesterday was

the oddest of things that have ever happened since I, started doing this podcast. I had Clinton Portis on the show. We recorded the interview earlier in the day and then I went and did the rest of the podcast. And then when I sat down to, you know, clean up the podcast, edit it a little bit, I noticed that five to six, maybe seven minutes roughly of the beginning part of my conversation with Clinton Portis didn't exist. I still can't figure out how that happened. It is a mystery, a total mystery. It's one thing to not be recording. You wouldn't have any of the conversation. But I was recording and four-fifths of the conversation was there, but the first part of it wasn't. Tommy, I sat in here and I was like, I can't figure it out.

I called Aaron. I called other people that really know, you know, the editing and the recording program that I use. It's called Adobe Audition, and it's great. We've all used it for years in radio, and it just disappeared. It wasn't there. Still can't figure it out. Have no idea what happened. You know, this is so unusual because your operation is usually so finely tuned. It's so buttoned up. I know. I mean, this is not like the Kevin Sheean show at all. I mean, we have issues on occasion, and they're usually self-inflicted. I mean, almost always. But that one was a strange one.

Clinton was great. I enjoy Clinton. It was funny because, you know, I call him, and I've got him on the phone, and I said, so how have you been? Because I hadn't talked to him in a while, and he goes, all's good. How are you doing? I said, fine. And he goes, yeah, I'm just in slow motion, man.

I've just slowed everything down. just taking it, you know, easy, not getting worked up over things. In slow motion, he was until I got him riled up a little bit about asking him why Jason Campbell was set up to fail here. And he said, well, they would tell him to throw a play. It would definitely be there. And then it would be a pick six going the other way. And I said, well, who was that?

Al Saunders. And he's like, no, man, remember I'm in slow motion today. I'm not getting into that. I'm not creating headlines. And then I said, oh yeah, that's right. It was Zorn. Of course it was Zorn. But anyway, this review from Izzy, who gave us five stars.

Thank you very much, Izzy. Izzy wrote, love the show, 99.999% of the time, constantly impressed by the Ken Beatrice-like knowledge. I have even warmed up to Tommy over time. It does take time. Ironically, almost the only thing I vehemently disagree with Kevin's opinion on is Anthony Gibson. It would be Antonio Gibson, but it's fine. He isn't bad out of the backfield, but that's really it.

I don't get the love affair. Not only the fumbleitis, but his running is average at very best. Also, how many games do we have to watch him go out of bounds when we are trying to use the clock? It was highlighted watching Terry get on the ground. his next catch on the very next play. Please use all of your normally great analysis and even keeledness made upward to see him for what he is, an okay player who net net costs as much as he helps us. But I love the show.

Keep up the work. Thank you, Izzy for that very much. Yeah, I am a big Antonio Gibson fan. I have been. Maybe I'm a little bit blind to it. I think he's actually now just starting to become someone that Eric B. Enamey believes in and trusts as much as I have. The fumbling has been a problem, understood. We've acknowledged that.

I think he, I don't know, I think he's better than what his production has shown in his time here. I think on another team with, you know, it could be this team with Sam Hal and Eric B. Enemy, moving forward, but I think he's pretty talented. But certainly entitled to your opinion, is he? But I thank you for the review. I would think that the coaching staff thinks more like him than you. I mean, their use of him has been sporadic. I mean, you know, he's not a go-to guy.

Yeah, Sunday was the most touches he's had. run the season. He had 11 touches for 76 yards and was a factor not only there, but he had, you know, he had a 37-yard kickoff return. But yes, this year, that would be true. It's interesting, though, that, you know, the runs that Ron's teams have made here, and they've made a run, no matter how minimal, but they have made runs in November. His November record here in Washington is now nine and three after Sunday. They have been speaking. spearheaded in part by, you know, a more run-focused offense around Antonio Gibson. Yes, it has.

And so I guess I wanted to start. And one other thing about Gibson, he wasn't, he didn't come out of college or running back, right? No, he was a wide receiver at Memphis. Yeah. Yeah. Something they'll always consider. Yes. Here's something to consider.

It's kind of off of your column the other day. The one that you wrote, you know, talking about Ron, how, you know, we've talked about this a lot as well, that Ron can't, you know, get Sam Hal out of his mouth. It's just a constant referring to Sam Hal even if the question isn't about Sam Hal. And you wrote a column the other day about, you know, they've called him the quarterback and you have said, you know, is it the or is it a quarterback? back and you got into that. And, you know, the whole conversation about they've got five picks, three rounds, first three rounds, C.J. Stroud had this. We had that conversation the other day.

Yes, we did. But I wanted to further the conversation. And the conversation goes like this. What if Sam continues to produce at a high level the rest of the year like he has the last two weeks? What if the last two weeks aren't an aberration? And by the way, my lean would be it's not that it's not an aberration, that we are going to continue to see overall more good than bad. I don't know where that leads in terms of him being a starting quarterback,

top half of the league starting quarterback, elite quarterback. I would probably push back on anybody that is convinced that he's going to be an elite quarterback. But Chris Trapaso, CBSports.com, wrote a story this morning. titled Commander Sam Hal could challenge for being the best late round quarterback since Tom Brady. He is on pace to have the second most productive passing yardage season in franchise history behind Kirk Cousin's season in 2016. Already for his first season, he's going to break every first year passing record more likely than not, including Kirk Cousins' first year as the full-time starter in 2015,

which I think is the second best all-time passing yard season and franchise history. And I'm getting to this. Ron is clearly hell-bent here recently on making sure that everybody, fans, media, ownership, understand that he found the question. quarterback. We would all agree, most reasonable people, I think, would agree. It's a bit premature to take a victory lap on Sam Howell after nine games. It's looked really good the last two games. Still, way too premature. But he has his arms raised in a V on Sam Hal, which is the reason he continues, not very subtly. You know, it's hardly been something that's gone.

unnoticed by anybody that pays attention to these things. He wants everybody to know he's the guy that found Sam Hal. And if he is gone, send me my Super Bowl ring because I left you with a quarterback, as he said before the season started. Even though I think we all who have followed this and the day to day understand, it wasn't necessarily Ron that found him. But if we're going to blame Ron for the personnel stuff, whenever it goes wrong, you know, because he's the number one decision maker on personnel.

He gets credit if Sam Hal turns out to be the guy. The question is this. Where does this go if Sam Hal turns out to be not only a guy, but maybe the guy as it relates to Ron Rivera? Well, there's a couple of components here. First of all, if Ron River. if Ron Rivera is back, Sam Howe is back. Sam Howe is a starter. That's a lock.

Okay. If Ron Rivera is not back and we have a whole new group of people in charge, I don't think it matters what Sam Howe does. I still think if they like a quarterback in the draft high, they're going to pick one. Okay. That's the column you wrote the other day. I want to focus on Rivera here. is Rivera tying and hitching his wagon as he has done so obviously here to Sam Hal,

even though the conversation has been, we've got to be patient, we got a young quarterback, he's fighting through it. That's two weeks ago. That's, you know, after the giant game, that's after the Buffalo game. But then after the last two weeks, he's the quarterback. since he's hitched his wagon so tightly with Sam Howell for the purposes, I think it's pretty obvious, that he wants to get credit for Sam Hal and potentially walk into his fifth year, fifth and final year of his contract,

coaching Sam Hal for another season. Can he convince with a continuation of growth, and improvement from Sam Howell, can he convince ownership that he deserves to come back next year? I think they would have to win two games in the playoffs. See, they make the playoffs. Look, the junkies ran a poll this morning. If the commanders make the playoffs this season, would you bring back head coach Ron Rivera? Oh, they did?

Over 1,900 votes, 88% no. Yeah. I think the new ownership pays attention to the fan base because they need the fan base. You may not like the idea of owners listening to fans, but sometimes that's kind of ridiculous, but I think this ownership group is very attuned to what the fan base thinks and wants. So a couple things here. I want to start with this. it's very possible that Ron is angling for something that isn't the head coaching job,

that he's angling for the general manager position. I'm just throwing it out there because, you know, hitching his wagon to being the guy responsible for bringing Sam Howell, the quarterback, to this organization, you know, the obvious answer would be, well, this is Ron's ticket in his own mind. I don't believe it. In his own mind, this is his ticket to his fifth and final year of the contract, and maybe even in his own mind and extension. And as I go back through the months of having this conversation, I don't even think in his own mind he's thinking it needs a playoff win. It just needs to keep looking better and better and better and better and him looking more right and more right and more right.

I don't think that Ron Rivera is going to be back. I want to get that out as the head coach. I don't think Ron Rivera is going to be the general manager. I'm just wondering if you've given any thought to maybe he's not angling for a fifth year as a head coach. Maybe he's angling to become the general manager. But he is the general manager for all the time. I know, but as a standalone job moving forward. So in other words, get paid to do half the amount of work? No, to not be the head coach, but to become the general manager.

And it becomes a second professional life for him where he's not a coach anymore. or he's just the head of the, you know, he's a front office executive and the head of football operations. I think this is the least likely scenario. I think the only way he comes back is as a coach. Right. I'm just throwing it out there. Okay, I'm just throwing it out there because, you know, it's a lot of look at what I found you. I'm going to be vindicated.

40 of 53 players, you know, the quote from earlier this season, if I leave you with that, send me my ring. So I don't think that Ron Rivera can be back as the general manager of this football team. I don't think there's any chance that Ron Rivera is back next year with the head of football operations, VP of football operations, whatever that title is with head coach. I'm actually legitimately forgetting what the title is. It's not important. Josh Harris is going to hire a number one football person. And that person is going to be somebody who doesn't think third down conversions is an analytic, is an advanced statistic. Ron doesn't even understand when he's talking about analytics or advanced numbers what they actually are. So Josh Harris

understands that. They may like Ron Rivera the man a lot. They may even like aspects of him as a head coach, but they're bringing a super sharp person into this organization. No offense, Ron's not super sharp. And these guys, again, may like him and he's a high quality person, high integrity man, but they want to bring some real brains into the operation that does not exist currently with Ron Rivera as the head of football operations. So I promise you today, Ron Rivera is not the general manager come January 15th or 20th or whenever the regular season is. I agree. I think that's the least likely scenario. I know. I was just throwing it out there with respect to Ron. Do you think it's Ron that might be angling to a certain degree for, if I'm not

the coach, hey, look at all the players and look at the quarterback that I found. So that's number one. Number two, as far as whether or not him hitching his wagon to Sam Howell could prolong his coaching career, I also think that that is a long shot. I don't think that Ron's going to get credit for Sam Howe. And even though he's the number one football decision maker, and people will say, well, it doesn't matter whether or not he made that decision on that particular player, he was responsible for it. You know, and so he should be responsible for the good and the bad in terms of roster construction. But Ron Rivera had no idea that Sam Howell was capable of doing what he's been doing this year as late as two or three days before the season finale last year,

as late as actually midway through the game against the Cowboys, as was written by whoever wrote that story. I'm forgetting now. It may have been Kime. where, you know... I think it was Sports Illustrated, where he was... He said to his wife, I had no idea he was this good. Right. Not to mention that...

Not to mention that the acquisition of Sam Howell has, you know, had this incredible revisionist history description of, we had this super high grade on him. And yet, even though they felt like probably other teams had a super high grade on him, and they acted like they wanted him so bad, they didn't pick him in the fourth round. They didn't pick him in the fourth round again and traded back with their second fourth round pick

into the fifth round and risked losing him. So when he was there at the beginning of the fifth round, he's, you know, we like him, he's high up on our board. Let's take him. Let's take him. But remember, they had just traded for Carson Wentz. They believed in Carson Wentz. you know, although I still don't know how much they believed in Carson Wentz.

I think Carson Wentz was the last option in that offseason, Russell Wilson, Jimmy Garoppolo, etc., etc. But I think if you're paying attention as new ownership, you've got to understand that this wasn't a guy that Ron started calling out months before the draft with his team of personnel people saying, this is our guy, this is him, you know, and the sack issue, by the way, is going to make them fall a little bit, so we're going to be able to get them a little bit later, and, you know, we'll get somebody here in here as a plug and play for one year. This guy, Wentz, you know, we'll give up something for Wentz. This is our guy, you know. That's all revisionist history. Nobody actually believes that. That's been paying attention. But this is the move he's making right now. And here's the thing that's so interesting about it. Sam's making them look really

good. Sam's making them look right. Yeah. Sam's making Ron Rivera who went into this thing, wishing, not knowing, nobody out there knew for sure. It was wish and hope mode, and Sam's making it pay off for him. So, I know, but let's remember. Sam Howe is a, what did he do yesterday product right now? He doesn't have a long enough track record. Of course not. To, to, for anyone to judge, even though everyone's judging him, that this is the guy.

He could stink it up on Sunday in Seattle, just like he did against the Giants a couple weeks ago. Like you pointed out, we're not that far removed from that Giants game. Okay. So we don't know if this is the norm what he's done the last couple of weeks or if he's, you know, or if his talent remains inconsistent. I totally agree with you. I'm with you. That's why I'm not in a rush to take the last two weeks of praise and say that it's permanent. But that's not really what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to get at if he does continue to play like he has the last two weeks. And if he does, the team will have some success. They're not going to win every game because they're not as good as some of these other teams that they're playing. But they will be in the playoff hunt

until late in the season if he plays and the offense produces at the level that it's produced at the last two weeks. Could he, you know, and to a certain extent, Eric B. Enemy in the offense, give Ron a chance to come back as a head coach next year. Because maybe new ownership says, wow, arrow pointing up, Sam Howell's really developed. Maybe they give Eric B. Enemy all the credit for it. But, you know, Ron's really pushing this narrative of, look at what I found you guys. It's not just for the purposes of, you know, trying to be in the conversation of the guy that brought Sam Hal. There's some

strategyry there for him. He wants everybody to understand he's the guy that gave you Sam Hal, so why would you want to get rid of me? Of course, if he performs well, if the team performs well, not him, if the team performs well and even make the playoffs, his chance increases, but it's a chance that that, you know, that in other words, I think the discussion among ownership and management will take a few minutes longer to get rid of him if he manages to get this team into the playoffs.

You mean they'll actually have to hold a meeting to discuss it rather than, yeah. Yes. So what are we going to do about this guy? He went and made the playoffs. Do we have to keep him? And they'll say, yeah. That damn, Rivera, he went and made the playoffs. I don't think there's a chance either.

I mean, I think there's one chance. I think there's one chance, and that is Sam continues to ball out. They actually make the playoffs, and then they perform well in the postseason. Performing well to me means winning a game and then in a second road game, because they would all be road games, like literally taking, say, the Eagles in a second round, divisional round matchup to overtime and losing again 37, 34, something like that. where, you know, that would require a much longer meeting. I do think that their mind has been made up on cleaning house. But I think that, you know, what we've seen from Ron is an effort to really prop himself up in the eyes of everybody.

And it's all about the quarterback. And it's been all about the quarterback. I just think it's just, you know, it's disingenuous. I just don't. We followed this thing day to day. We understand that, you know, Taylor Heineke had to talk him into playing Sam Hal. We understand that he told his wife how surprised he was, you know.

And we also understand in, you know, at the time, you know, Ben Standing was the first to call it out, but definitely in hindsight that, you know, the labeling him as the QB won in the offseason wasn't about knowing. it was about deflection and hoping. I'm not suggesting, by the way, that they thought he didn't have any chance. I think there were people that did like him and liked some of the things that he could do.

And I think they always liked his physical abilities. But I think when they did that, it was like, well, let's go with this. Because they didn't have any other options either. It's not like with the ownership situation and flux, they could go out and make a big trade or make a big free agent splash, or make a big trade and draft somebody. But I think ultimately he is going to play well more than not. There's going to be a lot of discussion when we get to the end of this thing

that Sam Howell is the guy to bring back to be the QB1. General managers love the idea of fifth round quarterbacks on rookie deals that you can't extend yet because you can't extend them until the end of his third year. And with, you know, the third most cap space in the league, the idea that they could literally build a contender in the off season for 2024. And so I think there's a, you know, I think we are trending in the direction subject to change because two weeks removed from the giant game. And he still has this flaw, especially when the offensive coordinator doesn't make it easier for him. But, you know, I don't think it's enough to save Ron Rivera. I don't. But I think it's interesting that Ron, I think, is convincing himself or talking himself into the possibility that Sam could be, you know, essentially his savior for a fifth and final year.

Or maybe as a move into the general manager's office, but no chance on that one. I don't think there's a chance. It's really hard to see a scenario where a fan base that, again, like I said, I think this ownership realizes they have a diminished damaged fan base and are going to be very attuned to their feelings, what they want. Now, that's not necessarily good. I hate that. You know? But that's it.

That's what they're doing with the name. They've heard the fan base speak about the name, and they listened. Why wouldn't they do the same thing with the coach? Because, Tommy, most fans actually, maybe not most. I just, I find it to be a turnoff, a negative. I know. I know it is.

they're answering to the fans on anything other than something, football-wise. We're talking about, you know, brand and name and everything. That's different. Right. Okay, but you're turned off by the practice. What if the result is what you want? The results is what? What do you mean? Sorry? Look, if you're turned off by the practice of an owner making football decisions, based on what their fans want. Right. And it's not that simple,

but to take it into strong consideration, that turns you off. But what if the result of that... Pure football decisions, yes. Yes, yes. But what if the result of that is a positive, it's something you would want?

Then I wouldn't chalk it up to them caving to the fans. I would chalk it up to good judgment. I mean, I just... No, it's the end justifies the means, however stinky the means are. The interesting thing about this conversation is that they are a win away on Sunday in Seattle from being a team that will be positioned to make a run to the postseason. if they win the game Sunday and they're 5 and 5, and let's say the context to the win Sunday is another strong 440-yard, 27-point,

you know, offensive performance in one of the toughest venues to play. And Sam Howell throws for another 300 and only gets sacked twice. And, you know, you're 5 and 5 with the Giants coming to town with Tommy DeVito at quarterback. You know, that's not even a game. that even, you know, even though they do the Redskins thing where they win and then they lose to somebody, they shouldn't lose to, which you should never describe it as shouldn't. But they should beat. That'll be the first should win game in a long time if they play the Giants with Tommy Davido.

They could be six and five Thanksgiving Day. Against Dallas on Sunday, on Thanksgiving. Yeah. And that's why I say Sunday, if they win this game, I mean, it's very possible at the end of of the day, they're in the playoffs, okay, as the seven seed. But even if they're not, if they win this game on Sunday, and you're going to look at it and you're going to say, well, if nine's the number, and that's probably the number, they only got to get four more.

And the Giants and the Rams and the Jets are, you know, they only got to get three more, excuse me, because they would be, no, they'd have to get four more. Yeah. Yeah, they'd have to get four more. So you'd have, you know, the Giants coming up. You'd have the Rams and the Jets coming up. Who knows a game against the – I mean, you're going to take this to the end of the year in contention. Just like you have the last three years.

I mean – Which have all been meaningless. Yeah, other than the division title at seven and nine. that produced the playoff game that they almost beat Tom Brady in. Who was the quarterback of that game? Taylor Heineke. Wow. Look at that.

You knew that. You knew that. That was the game where Chase Young was a non-factor. He was so good down the stretch for them. And then he was, he produced nothing in that game. That's not true. He was in that picture. pointing at Heineken's back jersey.

Yeah, he was. You know, he was in that famous picture. So he did something. I hate doing this for a third straight day, but we'll do it real quickly because there's just a lot of stuff that I was reading from a lot of you guys about the Chase Young conversation that I know I addressed to a certain degree yesterday, but I want to address it one more time with Tommy. We will do that. We'll get Tommy's prediction on the game Sunday.

We've got a you heard it here first before the end of the show. Lots to get to. Let me just tell you right now that Window Nation has one of their best deals of the year going. Temperatures are going to start dropping soon and rapidly. That'll soar your energy costs. You'll be paying a lot for your heating bills, especially if you've got old drafty windows. Your furnace just works too hard to keep your family warm. and keep your energy bill down.

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Right now they've got Seattle up to six and a half against Washington minus 110. Washington, if you like them, plus six and a half minus 110. The total in the game, 44.5. By the way, what a dud tonight for Thursday night football. Chicago and Carolina. In fact, I think a lot of the primetime games coming up are not very attractive. A lot of that flexing, I think, is going to come into play. This year, you're able to flex Monday night games. We'll see if that happens. Anyway, mybooky.ag promo code, Kevin. DC. We talked about Chase Young on Tuesday. We talked about Chase Young's press conference on Tuesday. You had a reaction. I had a reaction. I talked Tommy yesterday about many people who had reached out to me and said,

you know, Chase knocked the, you know, vibe, knocked the culture. And yet, you know, he didn't do anything to help it, which is true. It's 100% true. I just personally, watch that thing, and I just thought Chase was spitting out words, spitting out sentences, trying to string him together. I don't think it was super thoughtful. I don't think it usually is with him. I didn't think he was really going after his teammates. I think it's fair to say that he probably was going after some of the coaches to a certain degree with some of what he said in that San Francisco introductory presser when he talked about the vibe and the culture, et cetera, et cetera. and look, you know, Ron and company or somebody in that organization, you know, they leaked a bunch of, you know, very unattractive stuff about him anonymously.

And so maybe he was ticked off about that. But a lot of you really pushed back on my take more than Tommy's take. You, this was from Douglas. I got more of this, even after yesterday. Kevin, how delusional is this guy talking about color. and he did nothing himself to make it better. From Gary, Chase Young needs this to be a wake-up call. He was a big part in hurting Ron's effort to implement and build a new culture.

Netting it out for me, guys, because there's a game Sunday, but there's still a lot of talk about this, and I think there have been a lot of really good points. I think it's very interesting the reaction to Chase's presser, even more so to what I deem to be pretty low rent anonymous leaks about Chase Young, even though all of them have said the right things publicly, including Ron yesterday. Chase Young was responsible for his own demise, and the coaching staff from my standpoint was cowardly and not coaching him tougher.

You know, Chase Young should have been benched. He should have, a lot of the time he was because of Indians. injury. But I'm saying when he was healthy enough to play, I didn't see Chase Young treated the same way or coached the same way Emmanuel Forbes has been coached. I didn't see a lot of calling out by name like they did with Jameson Davis, you know, during his early first year or second year. There was obviously the implication that it was Chase with maturity, et cetera. But I just think that ultimately Chase is at fault, and so is the team for, you know, this not working out. The bottom line is number two pick in the draft. He's gone in three and a half years. He's gone for a late third round compensatory

pick, and they couldn't wait to get rid of them. They're the ones that drafted him. They should have done better due diligence on him, so they're at fault for that. And then I think they didn't coach him hard enough. That would be a big part of it. But I totally hear you on Chase. you know, the idea that Chase is talking about culture out there, and here's a guy that wouldn't even post for one OTA day as a team captain when everybody else in the building did. I hear you on that, and I agree with you. Tommy, do you have anything on this?

Well, let me just point out that it turns out that Brian O'Rockpole was a better draft pick than Chase Young, wasn't he? Well, yeah, I guess so. Sure. I guess he was. Yeah. The other thing is, I think you give Chase too much credit for being ignorant about what he said. This is a guy who, based on, I'm assuming, has had some training in public speaking and in dealing with reporters since he was so interested in having, quote, a Hollywood type of image with the commercial, okay, with the family feud appearance.

he's not a neophyte when it comes to deal with the media. Oh, Tom, he's not a very good interview. It's not a very good interview. He's not a very good interview. No, he's not very good. That doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing. And maybe he didn't realize what he said, but when he said, I know I'm in a building with winners,

that he's drawing a distinction. And his teammates, get caught up in that distinction, whether by accident or not. I think it's... I'm not as sympathetic as you are that he didn't really realize what he was saying. It's not sympathetic. It's an observation. But we're done with Chase Young, right?

Yeah, I'm just saying it's not that I have sympathy for him. I mean, I have been after him for a couple of years to grow up and be more mature. I wanted it to work out for him. No doubt I did. But yeah, I think we're done with Chase Young. I think we're ready to move on from Chase Young. We'll see what... Now, Spacey, he didn't make you look too good, did he?

No, he didn't. And he can't have that. Can't have that. That's... You know, look, all of us that do this are right and wrong about a lot of things. I mean... Yes, yes, yes. But one last thought.

I actually was somewhat surprised at least in my timeline, and maybe it was the same in yours, I don't know, that there was a lot of anti-Chase Young after his presser the other day when I kind of felt all along that people blamed the coaching staff for Chase Young's, you know, demise here. And I think that there's a really good point. I think they're making great points, and I've never taken Chase Young. off the hook. My observation of what he was saying the other day is completely different as different from and separate from who was the most to blame in Chase Young being out of here

before the end of his rookie deal. It's kind of an amazing thing, right? Number two overall pick, he did not make it through his full rookie contract. It really is. It really is amazing. But you know, the writing was on the wall when they didn't pick up a fifth year option. Yes, but you, you know, Yes, it was. It was. No doubt. They really would have been better off trading him if they had gotten any kind of offer before the draft and then approaching the draft in that way. Man, we've had some number two picks here over the last 10 years, 11 years, that didn't exactly reach what we thought they were going to reach. Okay, time for Tommy's prediction for Sunday. So what do you think in there, Bigfellow?

Did you get last week right? Well, can we? I said they were going to win 29 to 20. 29 to 20, got it. Yeah, yeah. So I pointed that out in my Twitter wars after the game. When I posted, they won, but it should have been so hard to beat such a bad team. And everyone, you know, piling on saying, you know, you hate this team, you hate this team.

And I said, well, I pointed, I said they were going to win. I picked them to win, too. I had it 2423. Okay. So your prediction for Sunday. Before we get to that. Yes. Before we get to that, a brief interlude, I was listening to your show today coming back from somewhere where I was at.

and I heard your segment with Paul Charchian, is that his name? Yeah, Charch. And I got to tell you, you know, I was almost ready to turn it off when I thought it was going to be about fantasy football. But when he started talking about pinball and Godzilla, I almost had to pull off the road. I was so giddy. Oh, Charch is one of my favorite conversations every week.

We end up talking about a lot of things that have nothing to do. do with fantasy football because as you know, I don't really care about fantasy football. You know, we do these fantasy football segments for years on radio, and so many of you are in fantasy. I'm in a fantasy league. By the way, I'm in one of his leagues and I've got a hell of a team. But like I've told you for years, like people who bet on sports, fantasy, you know, everybody participates, but it is the marijuana to the sports. betting heroin. It's a completely different high.

But no, I love charge. But the pinball discussion. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was so great. Yeah. He had a pinball machine. I love that. I always wanted a bowling machine in my house. You know, the ones they had

in bars with the little disc where you play like regulation and Strike 90 and all these other games. I always wanted one in my house, but I never, I always wanted a jukebox, too, but I never acquired either. So I love the idea that this guy has a pinball machine in his house. And that is a Godzilla pinball machine because I'm a big Godzilla nut, as you know. You and I have had conversations about pinball before.

Yeah, we have. Yeah, we have. And it always reminds me of my fond memory of going to church in East Southport when my parents thought I was old enough to go by myself. and they would give me money to put in the collection plate. And right before the collection plate would be passed around, I'd get out of church, I'd walk about two blocks up the Bucks College shop, the college soda found right across from East Trousburg State, and I played pinball with all the church money.

So much for your little donation there. Yes. I loved pinball. I mean, my friends and I in junior high school, high school, we played a lot of pinball in 7-Elevens and in bowling alleys. I've told you, like, there's one pinball machine more than any other that I remember distinctly, and it's the evil-can-eval pinball machine game. That one was in the 7-Eleven on River Road in Bethesda for years. That was a good one. Volcan, which was right next to it.

was another one. I mean, loved pinball. And, you know, I told Church this morning, if you were listening to it, my son and his girlfriend, they were living in Columbia Heights about a year ago. Yeah, it was a year ago this time. They had a place, and they had a pinball machine. They were renting the place, and there was a pinball machine in the place. And so when I was there, I started playing, and they're like, when are you leaving?

And I said, I'll be leaving soon. enough, but I was just sitting there for like an hour playing pinball. It's still so much fun to do. Yes. You know, and especially if you got a really good machine that you can, you know, that you can beat up a little bit without getting the tilt sign to pop up. Because you got to move that machine a little bit, Tom. You got to knock it around a little bit.

Yeah, you do. You got to massage it a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. Anyway. All right. So prediction on the game. I like Seattle.

I think it's tough to win out there. I think we've seen, you know, I know the Philly game he performed well, but a lot of it was come from behind. And the team that he performed against last week isn't even an NFL team, that Patriot squad. They're just beaten Buffalo two weeks earlier. They're probably going to be hurting since they just took a beating from the, the Ravens, but the Ravens seem to be in a class by themselves.

I like Seattle of the wind by the score of 33 to 24, and I like Sam Howe to contribute to that with two interceptions. When you get on something, it's like a dog with a bone, man. You just don't give it up. This idea, just slipping in, they didn't even play an NFL team. The Patriots are an NFL team. The Patriots two weeks ago They weren't last Sunday.

Beat Buffalo. The Patriots the week before were down seven to Miami in the fourth quarter. Yeah, they lost a couple of key players. They did. And they've been struggling this year. But the team that they played that really wasn't...

See, actually, this year, because they played the Bears coming off the Bears' best game, they played the Giants coming off the Giants' best game. Both of those losses look worse than, you know, if they had lost, loss to the Patriots, the Bears and Giants' losses would have been considered much worse losses than the Patriots loss. And the funny thing is, is actually, I think I'm coming around to believing that while an NFL team, the Patriots on Sunday probably in the moment were the

worst team that Washington played all year. Yeah. The Giants had Tyrod Taylor. They had nearly beaten Buffalo. The Bears had gotten it rolling a little bit offensively before they came in. Now, the way they lost those games was hideously ugly. But you're probably right in that in terms of the team

that was the most vulnerable to being pounded into submission by Washington in the moment, it was probably the Patriots on Sunday, except they have Belichick coaching the team. There is that. There is that.

Okay. Anything else on the game Sunday. No, 33-24 loss, you know, but they can win. It's a winnable game. I mean, obviously, it's still a winnable game. Seattle is, about, 5 and 3.

Yeah. But coming off that beating that Baltimore gave them, there's a lot of questions. I had a guy on from Seattle this morning. He writes for the, he covers the team for the Tacoma News Tribune, I think it is, and he said they've just given up so many yards. Seattle has on the ground and he's like, if I'm Washington, I just run it right down their throne. I thought to myself, yeah, not exactly their style. Not exactly what they want to do,

even if the game plan calls for it. But I do think we're going to see down this stretch here in kind of the second half of the season. I think we're going to see a, not a run-to-pass ratio advantage. I think we'll see the pass-to-run ratio come down a little bit. I think Ron Well, we saw it last week, but you pointed out. Yep. Last week, it was much more of a balanced attack than they've had. Yeah, it wasn't balanced, but it was, you know, all. It was more balanced.

Yeah, I think Atlanta was the most, you know, in terms of the least amount of pass-to-run ratio, passes-to-runs called, and last week was the second least amount. But then again, they weren't even playing an NFL team last week. So you got that. That's right. All right. You have to consider that. We'll finish up with you heard it here first predictions.

Tommy wants to talk about something that he did today. And the Wizards won, just very, very brief NBA talk. We'll get to all of it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's. Shelley's back room, my home away from home, 1331 F Street, Northwest. I find it's hard to believe. but I know some of you have still not discovered it, still have not made your way down there. And I understand that some of you may be operating under restrictions.

You know, we all have families. We all have responsibilities. We all have significant others maybe that we have to answer to. So I understand those limitations. I'm going to give you a chance to get around that. Sunday, December 10th, it's Family Day at Shelley's.

Not officially, but I'm calling it Family Day. Okay? It's a commander's by week. So the commanders aren't on. So, you know, there's a good chance

that your family may say, why don't we go to this one of the museums downtown? Right. You know, that say the commanders aren't playing that day. You know, you can't say, I'm going to watch the commanders because they're not on TV. So that may happen, okay? And so you might have to go downtown with your family, maybe to go to go watch, go look at dinosaur bones in the museum of natural history.

That's a good museum. But here's the thing. You're only two, three blocks away from Shelley's back room at that point. So that's when you trot out after about 10 minutes of dinosaur bones. and mammoths, hairy mammoths, Willie mammoth. You say, honey, look, you know, my feet are hurting me.

I'm not feeling too good. I'm going to go to this place a couple blocks away and get something to eat and maybe relax a little bit. And you text me when you're ready for me to come meet you guys and I'll come back and meet you guys. That's Family Day at Shelly's back room, December 10th Sunday.

The sneak away from Shelley's Backroom.com. Yeah. Sneak away from your family day. Yes. And head over to Shelly's. That's why I'm calling it family day. Yeah.

Well, and you know, it's holiday time and a place will be decorated and it'll look great downtown and it'd be a great spot to be at. Of course, your family won't see any of that. That's the whole idea. Right. All right.

Let's get to our you heard it here first, bold predictions. for the week. I've been waiting to hear what the big announcement was going to be. You got it right here. Heard it here first. All right, Tommy, I'll let you go first. What's your bold prediction for the week?

My bold prediction is that the next coach for the Washington commanders will be Jim Harbaugh. Didn't you use this one already? He's going to the NFL. Didn't you want to use it? And I know a lot of people give Chicago the edge. but I think Josh Harris and the new ownership group will put the hard sell on Jim Harbaugh, and I think all things being equal,

coaching down the road from his brother while not having to compete against him in the same conference, I think will be very attractive to him. I think Jim Harbaugh is going to wind up. And, again, a big ticket high, you know, a big spotlight higher like that will certainly generate a lot of enthusiasm

among the fan base. Didn't you already do this as a bold prediction? I think I did. Let me change it to my, let me change it then. My ball prediction is I'm going to repeat my bold prediction from a couple months before. Okay? Oh, God.

You've got to give me more. You have to give me more. It's Thursday. It's on the rundown that I sent to you. It's on the rundown that you sent me. The rundown that you sent me. Here's a bold prediction. What? You're going to send me my first rundown that we've ever done in the podcast next Thursday. For our radio show, we had a rundown all the time.

Yes, we did. We had a rundown every day. Yes, we did. My bold prediction, Washington beat Seattle Sunday. to get to five and five. What's that? What's that? What do you mean?

I like repeating a good one better. You do? Why? There are six and a half point dog. You don't think that's bold? I don't think the outcome of the upcoming game should come into the bold prediction category. Well, we've talked about this before. It can be an immediate result or it can be futuristic.

I mean, my all-time call, of course, was that Washington would draft Kirk Cousins. And are you heard it here for a segment? That came a year before it actually happened. That's what we got to do. You got to do something like that. But we can't keep track of those. You're doing twice. You're doing the work for two different things because now you're going to have a prediction

tomorrow at one point of the game. All right. And it's going to be Washington. I'll give you another one. But it's not going to be Washington beaten Seattle, is it? Well, I actually really do think Washington has a chance Sunday. I really do. And it's not a bold prediction.

Well, it is a bold prediction based on the fact that they're a near touchdown underdog. So that qualifies as bold. I wouldn't make the prediction if I didn't think it was bold and then also didn't think that it had a chance to happen. I'll give you another one real quickly, all right? the NFC North will send four teams to the postseason. This is really bold because it really, Pittsburgh is not a great team, but they're so, they're so resilient, they're so tough, they're so well-coached the whole thing.

And they're the one that you're not sure about. Cleveland's defense is becoming like one of these all-time defenses. I can't wait to see them against Baltimore, on Sunday. But the Chargers are kind of, and the bills, the bills seem to, there's something wrong in Buffalo, just something that didn't write in Buffalo. And they still have the Eagles, chiefs, cowboys, chargers, dolphins. The Chargers, who I do think are capable of winning nine, ten games and sneaking into the postseason, they still, in the next three weeks, they play the Lions and the Ravens. They still have the Chiefs. They still have the bills. They do have a

non-NFL team on their schedule. They play the Patriots. So the AFC North will produce four playoff teams. First time in history, it was almost the NFC East last year that did it, with four teams that finished 500 or better as Washington finished in the last place, but they were 8, 8.8 and 1. The biggest, you know, impediment to this would be the chargers or the bills. Most people would think you're nuts if you think the Steelers or the Browns are going to get in in front of them. But man, the bills, something is not right in Buffalo. It's like they talked about the window starting to close before the season started. It definitely looks like it's closing on them.

And they're going to have to start all over with Josh Allen, of course. I mean, at least they have the quarterback part solved. All right. I know that you went. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I want to back up on my bowl prediction. I want to amend it. Since you, since it was a repeat.

I want to put any racer to it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's still the same subject. Who's going to coach the commanders? But it's not going to be Jim Harbaugh. Mm-hmm.

You know, the rumor that was floating around, that might, Floreo said he heard from other people in the league, not from the commanders, but this was the topic of discussion among the league, that the commanders would trade with the Patriots in order to hire Bill Belichick. Right. That's not the deal they're going to make. They're going to trade with the Steelers to hire Mike Tomlin. Mike Tomlin did not get a contract extension.

he's got one year left after this on his deal. That's bold. And it was big news in Pittsburgh that he didn't get a contract extension yet this summer. And Josh Harris, as you know, he's still owned a piece of the Steelers. Right. Yeah. That's my bold prediction. Okay.

That's bold. And, by the way, wasn't a repeat of a previous bold prediction. I actually had a conversation with Mike Jones. our friend Mike Jones, who now writes for the athletic. Josh Harris is talking to somebody right now. There's somebody in his ear. Like somebody, you know, he's got a list of potential general managers. He's probably got a list of coaches as well.

And the Pittsburgh tie, as you just, you know, revealed your well-thought-out bold prediction for the week on you heard it here first. Kevin Colbert was the long time head of player personnel in Pittsburgh. He's not in the NFL anymore. This is the first year, I think first year, maybe the second year, of being out of the league. Another Pittsburgh tie, I don't know that he knows Kevin Colbert, but as a guy that was a minority shareholder in the Steelers, I am sure he could get access to his contact information. And I was saying to Mike, have you guys started the process? reporters of trying to dig into who's he talking to. Tommy, he's got to have an advisor right now in his ear.

You know, it may be a phil. You know what? It could be Darry for all we know. It could be his general manager of the Philadelphia 76ers. You know, it could be just somebody who's super smart in his life that he trusts when it comes to sports and who's been in sports that may not have been in the NFL previously. I don't know. But they're putting a list together. There's got to be a short list of people that they're going to get in touch with to see engage interest on general manager, head coach, etc. So Kevin Colbert was a name that I threw out and I'm like, what about him? And Mike's like, yeah, I haven't heard anything. It seems like nobody's heard anything. I really thought that when we got into this second part of the season, we're not really, we're just starting at the beginning of it.

Yeah, we're just starting now. I think there are going to be some reports here over the next month about somebody that has been consulting and is on the short list for Josh Harris. In other words, it's Vinnie Serrata. Yeah, now it can't be, you know, it can't be Adam Peters, who's currently employed by the 49ers. It can't be somebody who's employed, obviously. But who is it that's going to guide? him through the process of creating the list of candidates that they want to interview. If you're not an NFL person, you know, okay, I want to interview a bunch of people. Well, how do you create that list of people to interview?

Do you go talk to Charlie Casserly? Do you go talk to Joe Banner? Do you talk to, you know, who was in Philly forever? may, you know, who knows who he knows in the Sixers organization. I mean, somebody's got to say, here's the list of people that you should be focused on. You know, here are the people that are super smart, super analytical. These are the information analytics guys. Here's a list of guys that are just excellent, you know, evaluators of personnel.

Here's another list of guys that are, you know, just have so much experience. you know, and our big names. However you divide it up into the potential candidates that you're going to, you know, interview, he's got to have somebody to help him put that list together, doesn't he? Yes. Yes, he does. And you know what? It's not me.

Is it you? No. No. I mean, you know. Okay, it's not us. Anybody can pull up any sort of story written about here are going, here are the 10 hot GM candidates for 2024. Anybody can pull up the list of

here are going to be the top 10 Ben Johnson, coaching candidates. But that's not the way they do it. That's what the media does. That's a media opinion. That's a fan opinion. In these organizations,

they've got to have somebody that says, these are the guys right here. These are the guys that really are ready. Or these are the guys that have really done it that, you know, are going to be available. Or here are the guys that have done it before that are really good that are available. All right. You wanted to talk real quickly about a funeral that you went to this morning.

Yeah, this morning I went to Frank Howard's funeral. It was out in, way out in Northern Virginia. Geez, what was the town? It was in. It was Aldi, Virginia. Aldi, Virginia. I've heard of Aldi, Virginia, I think. Yeah. Yeah, it's west of Leesburg, west and south of Leesburg. Yeah.

And, you know, the only ballplayer I saw there was Dick Bosman, his former teammate. I was surprised I thought there'd be more baseball people there. Dick Bosman was the only former teammate or ballplayer of any type I saw there. Mark Lerner was there, the owner of the nationals. He was there to pay his respects. And I noted that two teams had sent flowers expressing their condolences. The New York Mets, where Frank had been a coach at two different times, and actually managed them in 1983 for 116 games.

Wow, I didn't know that. And the Texas Rangers, who Frank played in. his last, you know, in 72, after the senators moved to Arlington, Texas. There were a lot of other teams that Frank worked for over the years as a coach, or as a player, the Dodgers. And I didn't see any flowers from then. It was a crowd of 70. It was kind of disappointing. You know, I thought it would be a bigger event, a bigger tribute, a bigger memorial. because there's a statue of this guy outside Nats Park.

There's not many statues of sports figures in Washington, D.C. In fact, that don't be the only three. Josh Gibson, Frank Howard, and Walter Johnson. That's it. But it was a nice service. And, you know, I saw Frank's family there, his sons, one of whom looks just like him. and you know I knew Frank not real good but I had dealings with him over the years

I just wanted to pay my respects very nice of you all right anything else the Wizards won last night very impressive Kyle Coosman well I gotta tell you

that that NBA that's a top nuts product it really is so last night I'll finish it up with this. I watch this Netflix show. It's actually four episodes. Everybody's been raving about it. It's the number one show on Netflix.

And last night was one of those nights where it's not like there was a lot of sports going on. It's called all the light we cannot see. It was really good. It was well done. It was very beautiful in terms of the way they shot it. It's a World War II story. I liked it. I didn't love it.

people have been raving about it. I thought it was good. I didn't think it was the greatest thing that I've ever seen, but it was good. I heard you talking about it on the radio, and I'm going to watch it. It sounds interesting. We're going to watch it. Well, it's because of, you know, we like the, you know, those kinds of period shows, you know, World War II shows that kind of, I think you'll like it. I was expecting to be blown away by it based on all the people that reached out to me to say, this is can't miss. I liked it. It was good. But when it was over, when I had finally come up after four straight hours, I think I started to watch it at like eight, I ended up landing on last night's Warriors Nuggets game. And it was coming down the stretch, final three months.

minutes. There is no doubt that Nicola Yokic is the best player in the NBA. I don't even think it's close and is also one of the most enjoyable players to watch. Playoffs, my preference when it comes to NBA, but man is the Joker great. He is so great. And they won the game. I agree with you. Funny, he missed two free throws at the end to put it away, but he's just so awesome to watch. I don't know if I've seen a player since, I don't know, Bird, Magic, LeBron, for sure, LeBron for sure, that just sees the game and has the IQ he has.

You do know, he blows your theory that you, you know, promote when you talk about the NBA now, as opposed to players from years ago, the evolution of the game where players are bigger, stronger, and faster. Yeah. He's not bigger. He's not stronger.

Right. And he's not faster. Yeah, but you know what he does do, Tommy? He's none of those. He can shoot threes. So there's a little give and take there. You're right, and he also steps it out to 28 feet regularly. He is fun to watch.

A lot of fun to watch. I'll grant you that. All right. Anything else? I got nothing else for you today, boss. All right, I'll be. My work is done. I'll be back. You did a good job except for you heard it here first. I'll be back.

Oh, I think I rebounded with a strong. You heard it here first. Of course you thought so. I'll be back tomorrow with Jay Gruden and to preview the football weekend. No smell test picks for tonight. Have a good Thursday night back tomorrow.