The Kevin Sheehan Show - Caps-Canes and Casserly on the Draft

Episode Date: April 19, 2019

Kevin opened the show with a recap of Caps-'Canes Game 4 with thoughts on the Foegele hit on Oshie. Next was 30 minutes with Charley Casserly talking Redskins and NFL Draft. Alan May followed with thoughts on why Carolina has been so tough and why he expected Foegele not to be suspended even though he should be. Kevin finished up with Nats, Josh Rosen's latest quote, and the NBA Playoffs. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Charlie Casserly in a few minutes. Alan May after that, we'll start with the Caps. A 2-1 loss last night in Carolina in game four. The series is even up at two games apiece. The Caps played much better than they did in game three when they were dominated much better than they did in game three. In fact, you could argue it may have been one of their best games, if not the best game they've had all series, even though they lost it. They outshot Carolina, the hitting was even, and they were much better on the penalty kill last night. But two huge breakdowns cost them the game. The first came just 17 seconds into the game when Fogel got the goal for Carolina.

and he would become a prominent figure later in the game. We'll get to that in a moment. And then at the end of the second period, a period I thought the caps dominated. They got a power play goal from Ovechkin to tie the game at one apiece, and you thought that they were off and running. They were playing their best hockey, perhaps, of the series, or at least since the first period of game one. And they gave up a goal on what appeared to be a line change and a mix-up defensively and Tara Vinen gets the game winner with just 28 seconds left in the second period. Now, there were still 20 minutes left, and maybe more had they gotten one in the third period and forced overtime, and Kuznetsov had a point-blank, wide-open opportunity

at the end of a power play late in the game, but Morazik, Carolina's goaltender, made a great stop, and that was that. Now, the big discussion, coming out of that game was the hit on T.J. O'Shee by Fogel, a hit that may have cost OSHA the rest of this series, if not much longer in the postseason if the caps continue to advance. Todd Reardon said he is out for a while. They were angry. Ovechkin was really angry in the moment. Reardon and the caps were angry after the game. I personally didn't think it was a dirty hit. I understand that it was a penalty, and I think perhaps it should have been a five-minute major. Alan May was very quick to say on the broadcast last night, that's a five-minute major.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I didn't think it was intentional. I texted back and forth this morning with Greg Wasinski from ESPN, who's been a guest on the podcast a few times. And I like his opinion, and I also don't think that it's completely one-side. and non-objective. I think he's a little bit more objective, even though he has followed the caps and lived in the market, et cetera. But he agreed that it wasn't dirty. He thought it was not a dirty hit, but he thought it should have been a five-minute major. And by the way, if it had been a five-minute major, the penalty came with five minutes and three seconds left in the game, they would have had the rest of the game with a one-man advantage, and then

potentially had they not gotten the game-time goal, a two-man advantage if they had pulled the goaltender late to tie the game or perhaps even win it because they wouldn't have had to pull, they would have had that advantage the rest of the way on a major. Greg also told me this morning via text, he said he does not think that the hit deserves a suspension. So more on that coming up, we'll obviously talk to Alan May about that. It was a big loss for the caps obviously in losing OSHA. That goes without saying. But you know, the canes have lost players in this series two, including last night when they lost another winger early on in Jordan Martinook who got hurt. He was speedy and been forechecking his ass off. And, you know, Carolina to me looks

like at times a much faster team than the Caps. On the O'Shee hit, Rod Brindamore, the coach of Carolina said, quote, he barely hit him, closed quote. Caps fans will have a problem with that as they should. and I'm sure Carolina is going to hear it. This will provide extra juice, extra venom, hopefully a massive home ice advantage in game five tomorrow night. You know, my overall thoughts on the series, by the way, again, I think Carolina looks faster to me. I know that's overly simplifying it, but that's my best on hockey. It's the best I can do. They look faster.

Their forechecking is wreaking havoc. I'm not sure for Reardon, these defensive pairings in particular, worked out for him last night. But look, the caps are the defending champions. I don't think that they are, I don't, somebody tweeted out last night to me, same old caps. Same old caps. They won the Stanley Cup last year. There's no more same old caps. They won the Stanley Cup. Did you forget? And they won the Stanley Cup, by the way, overcoming series deficits, including every series. They were down, even in the Pittsburgh series, they lost game one, and in the Vegas series, they lost game one. They had to come back from three, two down and two shutout performances in game six and seven against Tampa to advance to the

Stanley Cup finals, and they came from two games down to a two nothing deficit, a two nothing hole, which should have been the biggest choke hole ever for them to Columbus in the first round. So I don't see a same old Caps situation. I don't even see them choking in this series because I just don't think that that exists anymore after you have extra, you know, they've gotten rid of the demons. They're done.

They're the defending Stanley Cup champion. So I think they will bounce back with a great game on Saturday night, tomorrow night, with or without OSHA. I really do believe that. Now, here's something that's interesting, Aaron, and I checked on this this morning. The series odds right now virtually, you know, you can find the caps as a very slight favorite.

You can also find toss-up odds pretty much in a three-game series here the rest of the way where the caps have home ice advantage. But here's some interesting stuff for you and me. We follow this stuff. And for those of you out there that do, I think you'll find this interesting as well. I mentioned the other day that the Tampa loss had elevated the caps to the overall favorite to win the Stanley Cup. Well, last night's loss at Carolina dropped the caps to now fourth overall favorite

Islanders to win the cup. The caps are currently 7 to 1. They were 5 to 1 the other day. Columbus and the Islanders are the current co-favorites. Of course, they're the only two teams that have advanced. So that makes sense. But the loss last night, you know, at least with Vegas, I mean, again, 2-2 versus two teams that have already advanced, but the caps, you know, are in trouble a little bit, perception-wise.

Tomorrow night, obviously, is huge, but we know that it's hockey, so even if they were to lose tomorrow night, the series isn't over until it's over. It's just there's always a chance, and I thought Holt B was great last night. I thought the caps played well. I think the most encouraging takeaway from the game last night is that they played arguably their best game of the series. and I think you'll see another one tomorrow night. Carolina's good, though. There's no doubt.

I mean, the Caps winning the regular season series, four games to nil, and we talked to various people before the series started, and they said, no, this is going to be a tough series. Like, this could be a legitimately tough series. Carolina is good, and I think they have proven that so far. All right, I'll get to the Nats a little bit later on. I want to get to Josh Rosen's quote about being annoyed by the Kyler Murray and the trade discussion.

We'll get to that a little bit later on. But quick word first from Window Nation, and then we'll get to Charlie Casserly. It's Windonation's annual spring cleaning sales event. If your windows are having issues, cracks, hard to open, unusual moisture, or you're just window shopping. Call Wind Donation today, schedule a free in-home estimate. Window Nation will save you 33% off your entire purchase, window siding and doors. Get upfront pricing, no hidden terms, just 33% off every style of window, house of siding, and all doors, including labor.

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with an A-plus Better Business Bureau ranking and over 10,000 positive online reviews. Now, I've had Window Nation, install windows in my home, and I promise you that it's worth giving them a call at 86690 Nation or going to Window Nation.com. Tell them, Harley, Aaron, Eric, any of them that I told you to call. You'll get a free-in-home estimate, and that price quote will be good for 60 days. Hurry, these off-season savings won't last long. 86690 Nation or Window Nation.com. All right, let's bring in Charlie Casserly, of course, former Redskins GM, former Texans GM,

but all of us Redskinned fans remember Charlie for being a big part of the glory years here in Washington and Charlie does a lot of work for NFL network and I watch all of your draft shows and you know this is the time of the year where football fans really get geeked up and by the way I was just curious you know the schedule thing from the other night

and how this release of the NFL schedule has become this popular day with leaks and then two hour shows at night when you were a general manager in Houston or Washington. Did you even care? Was it something that interested you? Was there anything about it that was important when the actual schedule was released? Yeah. We were anxious to see the schedule. I wanted to see, you know, coaches want to know who they're going to open up with, what the September schedule is so they can get to work on that.

I was always interested to find out, you know, did they do the things we asked them to do? that, you know, play the division games late in the year. You know, you're not traveling on a short week. In other words, Sunday night, you're traveling, and then you come back at Thursday night, you're traveling. Three road games in a row, two West Coast trips in a row. You know, those are things we did not, you know, want to see. And so those were, and then, and we had this one,

we had a game at FedEx on a Saturday, and we asked them, do not play on Sunday. Do not have us play on Sunday at home? and sure enough, they did. Marine Corps Marathon. We don't want to be playing on the day of the Marine Corps. So you have all these little things you put in, and everybody else puts them into. But you check those right away.

I never thought we could have a TV show on it, but I get it now. It's so funny. I think, you know, for fans, and I'm one of those geeks when it comes to the schedule. I've been doing a mock schedule on my radio show for years, and now on the podcast. But for me, as a fan back in the day, it was always, all right, when are we playing the Cowboys? Are we playing them in prime time? You know, is there a Thanksgiving Day game this year? You know, it was mostly about the rivals, you know, and when we were playing them.

By the way, Charlie, as an aside, I thought it was interesting. I mean, we both know what the Redskins have meant to the league over the years. And even in this last, you know, 10 to 20 year period, as things have been down, they've still often gotten, you know, maybe a disproportionate number of primetime opportunities. Just two prime time opportunities this year, and every other game right now is scheduled for 1 o'clock, not one second half of a double-header, you know, 425, you know, kickoff opportunity all year. I think it says something about what the league thinks of the Redskins right now. No, you can't run away from it. It's true. I know from a coach's point of view,

hey, I want every game of 1 o'clock. Sure. Some 4 o'clock home games are good, too. Crowd gets going on those things. Exactly. I understand that. But, you know, you've got to win. You've got to make it to show people want to see.

So that's what we are. You know, you just mentioned something, too, and there was nothing like, you know, RFK for a big 4 o'clock kickoff against a division rival like Dallas or a night game, right? It was just a different atmosphere. That was special. You love those 4 o'clock games at home at RFCK. Hey, that crowd was ready now.

It was the best. That was great. All right, before we get to the draft, what are your latest thoughts on what happens with Josh Rosen and potentially the Redskins? Well, my guess is that the Redskins, if they, as a quarterback they like in the first round, they'll take them. And no one's going to give the Cardinals a first round pick. Cardinals have to just make a decision. What are we going to take and then go from there? And from what I could gather, the few teams I've talked to who have been rumored to be involved,

there's been no serious discussions at all. So I don't know where the Cardinals are on this thing. We're all assuming they're going to take Murray. Maybe they're not going to take Murray. But I think that's a pretty fair assumption they're going to do that. So I don't know at what point they try to get on the phone and be serious about this thing. And that's really what has not happened from the teams that I've talked to that are, their names that are out there. I think the second round pick is what the best they can hope for,

and maybe the Giants, or it seems on 10 on getting defense in the first round, and not emphasizing quarterback, that's just an impression I have, then they can pick up Rosen on a second round pick, and maybe they got something. Charlie, one of the things I've said about the Rosen situation is that you almost, as an NFL team, I would think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you almost have to put them into the 2019 on your 2019 draft board and determine his value, you know, a year into his career with a rookie deal based on the rest of the 2019 draft board. A, is that a way to sort of, you know, figure out his value and then B, what do you think he's worth and where would he fall on your board?

No, that's the right way to do it, except it is an asterisk with him. And it was there last year. you know, why wasn't he the first player taking in the draft? He had the talent to be, and it's a question of personality, if you want to use the right word, work ethic, getting along with the teammates, and being able to follow

the game plan. So those are things that I've heard about from the playing in Arizona. So there's going to be a question. Because talent-wise, he was the 10th pick in the draft last year, should have been higher, should be the same position this year or higher.

But I don't get that read from teams. Wouldn't it be untenable for the Cardinals to draft Murray and keep Rosen for Rosen? And not that Arizona needs to worry about that necessarily, but intuitively it just doesn't make sense that they would draft Murray one overall and keep Rosen. No, it doesn't, but then you've got to say yourself, what are you going to get for Rosen? If somebody always your fifth round pick, you're going to take it? or I wouldn't. I keep Rosen there.

What happens if Murray gets hurt? What happens if Murray is not Murray? And Rosen outshines him. Maybe there'll be a better deal down the road for Murray. Excuse me, for Rosen. You're not paying these guys a lot of money. So, yeah, you're going to be paying your number two quarterback more than you'd like for a rookie. But a lot of times your rookie quarterback has a veteran making pretty good money behind him.

So from budget point of view, it certainly should be workable. Rosen seems to have been fine right now. Of course, when Murray comes in and he's got all the hype and he's the starter and he ought to backup, then he may not feel that same way. But right now he doesn't seem to be causing any problems. So ultimately, what is he worth in your view? If you're a general manager right now with a quarterback need and you like him and you, you know, how much do you like him?

What would you give up? I would give up a two and I'd realize, could be throwing this thing away. And maybe we'll hit a quarterback. So that's what I would do. Are you convinced that Kyler Murray's the first one to go now? I mean, you've alluded to that. Yeah, I haven't seen anything to make me think otherwise,

other than the fact they haven't tried to trade Rosen. But I get that. I think you wait until you get draft Murray, make sure he's healthy, and then you can go trade Rosen at that point in time. That's the right thing to do. So I have no reason to believe they're not going to take Murray. Your comments a few weeks ago on Kyler Murray that got all the attention, Tommy and I were doing the podcast that day together,

and we just said Charlie Casserly's track record on this stuff and his sources are impeccable. And if it come from anybody else, you may raise an eyebrow, but not from you. I know you took some heat on that. Overall, what are your thoughts about him right now? Yeah, the point I made, which it gets lost here, his interviews with the teams I talked to were not good. So let's start there. Now, there are teams, there are players in the NFL who won playoff games who didn't do well in interviews. It's a 15-minute session.

What you get out of a 15-minute session is a couple. First impression, verify some facts, raise some questions. Then you answer them after that. So the questions that were there, I can't tell you what. he did on the other interviews. I didn't ask anybody. When I watched him on tape, the guy's terrific. Guy can make every throw.

He's got great athletic ability, great speed, can throw from the pocket. You're going to have to run. And I did this on NFL Network. I showed the offense that he should work with. I sat with a head coach in the NFL for two hours. Went through tape, picked out the plays that he thought were the players that you'd run on offense with him. And so people say it's shotgun.

Well, you can't say he's 80% shotgun. Chicago was 78% I think the Eagles was 75% shotgun. So people are running the shotgun. It's the offense of the NFL pretty much. The other time you're not in the shotgun is when it's goal line and short yardage and you get behind center and what's the quarterback

going to do? Play action, rollout, bootleg. So there's some things he can do from there. So I think the guy can play. You just have to be committed to that type of an offense, the spread offense out of shotgun, which obviously, Kansas City, Chicago, Philadelphia, Philadelphia. Those teams made the playoffs.

Well, I mean, we really have seen, haven't we, over the last six, seven years, this hybrid, you know, dual threat quarterback become a big part of the NFL like it has become in college. And I know a lot of traditionalists, Charlie, over the last, you know, half decade have talked about you got to be able to throw from the pocket. And ultimately, you do at the end of a game. But there is room for the dual threat quarterback. I mean, I think that's been proven out here. Even after the RG3, 2012 season, when everybody thought, oh, you know, read option and that stuff's going to go away, it's become, there's a place for it in the NFL and a place for a quarterback that plays the way Murray does, right? Yeah, there is, except the durability factor, but still can't go away from it. Now, we have to see if this guy's body build can hold up in these situations.

He's not to be built like Russell Wilson. He's not as good as Russell Wilson coming out from the pocket. He is better than the Holmes in the pocket. at the same point in his career. Now, it's unfair here. Mahomes goes to Kansas City and sits for an entire year before he has to play, and plays with some pretty good players to throw to and run with the ball. If he goes to Arizona, they're going to expect him to play right away. The team isn't quite as good. All right. Describe this draft. I've heard some people say it's one of the better drafts and one of the deeper drafts in several years. What is it from your perspective?

Well, there's a lot of good front seven defensive linemen, more so than you normally see. So that group's pretty good. That group's pretty good. I'm not so sure about the rest of it. The quarterbacks, no one seems really excited that we're dealing with franchise quarterbacks here. So I think I like, you know, Wayne Haskins, Kyle Murray, Daniel Jones, Drewlock. I mean, I like each one of those guys. which one could be a starter.

The running back group is not a first rounder. Wide receiver, I don't know if there's a true number one guy here. If Marquis Brown can be T.Y. Hilton, the Oklahoma receiver, then he's the number one. Tight end, T.J. Hawkinson of Iowa, I think he can go anywhere in the draft. Noah Fan, Irv Smith, like him. There's some middle, you know, some second, third round guys that are okay. You know, the interior offensive line, I'm not sure there's maybe a first round, one first round of there, Bradbury, NC State, tackles solid first round group, falls off after that.

Safety's, I don't know, there'll be one in the first round. Cornerbacks, nobody jumps out there, but there's a bunch of solid guys. Inside linebacker, not very good, and yet we said strong in the defensive line. So I'm not sure, I totally agree. I think it's a solid draft, maybe more twos and threes than, you know, first round picks in some positions. Who's the best player in the draft? Because it's Boza or Williams of Alabama.

I think Williams can play every position. Excuse me, he can play in a 34-403 as a defensive alignment or as a nose tackle, defensive tackle, a defensive end of those defenses. Boza, some people don't feel, can play in the 34. I don't know that he can't. A player like DeMarcus where, you know, Wade Phillips says, I don't worry about if he can go backwards. He's only going to go forwards with me as an outside.

lineback, he was a defensive end like Boza. So I would take Boza because I think it's, to me, I know the inside pressure is good, but I like the outside pressure first. So that's my thing. You know what, a follow-up question to that, because I actually had it on my list for you. Yeah. I like the outside pass rush or two, something the Redskins really haven't had in terms of a speed rusher in a while. When it comes to outside pass rushers, do you, do you prefer the speed rusher or the power rusher? For the lack of a better description, you know, I would use Ryan Kerrigan more as a power rusher and maybe like a Von Miller as a pure, I mean, he's powerful too, but just, you know, fear-inducing speed. Which of the two do you prefer?

Well, the speed, because if he can win on the edge, it's over. And that makes the tackle set wider or deeper, open up the inside. That's the one that always scares me because if that tackles a little bit off athletically, he can't handle him. Now, Carrigan, to me, is a motor guy. He's going all the time. Right. And he's got a little initial quickness.

Preston Smith was kind of the power guy. Right. And the power guys, to me, don't get a lot of sacks. So what you want to me is speed, but quickness, quickness of hands and feet and change the direction. when you have to engage the player, that's when you've got to beat him. And that's where your quick hands come in and your feet, your ability to juke a guy. So that's what I kind of look for.

The power guys, you can just set on them. And if you've got any kind of anchor ability to win. This franchise, the Redskins haven't had a dominant, you know, fear-inducing, you know, havoc-reaking, edge pass-rusher, speed pass-rusher in forever. Is there a possibility of getting one at 15? Well, the guy that is going to sit there is Clellan Farrell, and I wouldn't put him in that category, but I think he's pretty good. I think he would be an excellent rusher.

You look at him and Carrigan coming out, and you would rate him better than Carrigan. So I feel happy if they got him. That'd be a good move for him. What do you think of Burns from Florida State? I like Burns. I think Burns is explosive. I'm a little worried about the size, but he might be okay. You know, I got him in the 20s, but he is really explosive off.

the line of scrimmage. I think Farrell is a better all-around player versus the run. I know there have been some concerns about this heart thing with Montez Sweat, but from a pure talent standpoint as an edge rusher, what's your thoughts on him? Well, he's great. He's got a great outside speed move. I think he needs to improve his strength and his countermove some, but he'll be one of those guys.

He's a threat every time he lines up. See, it's interesting. Sacks are home run hitters. If you get one sack a game, you're the greatest sack artist in the history of football. That's 16 sacks a year. Nobody does that. So you've got to get, you know, you can get some pressures on a quarterback, make him adjust his feet. You're winning.

Or if they have to double team you, you're winning. All right, the Redskins at 15. Let's just assume they don't give up 15, and I agree with you that they're not going to give up 15 or even if they were to trade back a first for Rosen. And they have that 15th pick. what do you think will be there and give me a guess on what you think they'll do? Well, I think they'll take a quarterback. I think Kaskins has a chance to be there. I think that Daniel Jones will be there.

So I think ultimately I think they'll take one of those two guys. Now, Farrell of Clemson, I just mentioned to him, mentioned it. He seems to be a guy who'll be there of the past rushers. Montes' sweat could be there with the heart situation. You know, some people are going to have their own different. Some people are going to take them off the board. That's going to be reality. Some people are going to drop them in the draft.

I think that'll be reality. Then, and after that, I think if you look at the wide receivers, I think they'll have their pick of wide receivers at 15. But hopefully, you know, I got like a sparrow there, and they take him. He's better than maybe what they're looking at, the wide receiver position. All right. Give me your quarterback rankings.

because I've listened to you a little bit. I still can't determine your order of quarterbacks and whether or not you think at 15, if one of those really good pass rushers are there, that a quarterback would be a higher-rated player on your board? Yeah, Murray to me, is off to the side. The tape is great. You don't take them unless the coach is on board to run the system

you need to run with them. Spread and do the things you have to throw out of the pocket the passes for a 5-foot-10 quarterback. So the coach is on board. Coach is on board. I like it. I got Haskins one because Haskins, to me, can play in any offense. So I like his arm strength. I think he's got some field vision. I think he can slide in the pocket. He makes big-time throws. So I think that guy can be special. He probably makes. we need a little time, but I don't think he needs as much as well, the guy. The guy, to me, would play as a rookie sometimes. I like Daniel Jones.

I think he's the most pro-ready quarterback in the draft, vision, anticipation, the best. When I watched him at the senior ball in practice, the arm was all disappointing. People have seen him in games, said he's a gamer, he plays better there. If the arm is good enough, he should be the next guy. Trent Green didn't look very good in practice. Kurt Warner did not look good in practice. Some guys just, they don't throw us. in practice.

Locke is four, and then five is between Ryan Finley and Will Graham. There's a big line there. Would any of them be a top 15 player on your board putting Marie to the side? Yeah, I don't do a board. I don't make up a board like that. I would not have a problem making Jones at 15. You've told me before that reaching for need gets you in trouble. How? Oh, yeah, so we might be doing that here now.

Right, that's what I like Jones. And I pulled about 12 teams on this guy, and he averaged the first round rate. So that tells me something there too. For the quarterback position, though, Charlie, is there just a different mindset that you are willing to reach at a certain level to get that position taken care of? meaning, you know, for the lack of a better, you know, description, you've got two 95s on your board and your best quarterback's a 90, but he's sitting there at 15. Would you take him over the 2 95s?

Yeah, probably. I mean, if we're in a tough spot, and I think the Redskins are in a tough spot. But, you know, that 90, everyone's got, we got to be sold on the 90. That's the thing. We're sold on it. We would do it. A player or two in this draft that you've become enamored with.

Any round in recent weeks as you've really been looking at this? Well, Marquis Brown from Oklahoma. I mean, this guy is a, boy, this guy's a blaze. He's explosive now. I don't know how you cover this guy. So one-on-one. He's a game-changes to me when I watch him. So he, to me, is an exciting guy to watch.

And I think the Brian Burns guy, of Florida State, we talked about a few minutes ago. The pass rush guy, that guy's explosive off the ball. He's a guy that he makes those tackles turn. So those are two guys I'm kind of excited to see how they play, not necessarily where they go, but how they play. Yeah, I think that those are two really good ones. I'm curious, do you like Paris Campbell, the receiver from Ohio State?

Do you think he's as explosive as Brown? No, no. Brown's in a class by himself. Yeah. See, guys can run fast, but then they play fast. And I don't see Campbell playing at that speed. I see Brown playing at any speed you want to put out for him. I thought Campbell was good. I just didn't see anything special about the guy when I was watching him. I guess that would be the way I would evaluate him. When you were going through this process, how much attention did you pay to mock drafts, if any? Yeah, here's what we did with Mark Gras. And the books, the books that were printed. We got the books, read through the books for two things.

One, is there something we don't know about a player from character? Because the books are gotten from teams. That's a call people to get the information, see? So that's the way it was done when I was in it. So you're really getting teams information. And when you go to the press conference, make sure you read the book before you go in, because that's what the writers are going to have. So there's the questions in the book of the questions you're going to get, see.

What I did with mock draft is the week of the draft, I paid attention. That's it. Nothing before then. Because that's when there might be some credible information in them. What we got out of was this, and there would be a consensus of names that would go in the first round. So we charted that in about five mock drafts. That told us who the top of the second was going to be based on the names that were left. So we spent a little bit more time on those guys in our meetings.

And that held true what I said there. That wasn't like the one. That was a consistent thing over the years. What I did is I had two people in the media that were outstanding as far as getting information. And what I really wanted to know was what was the mindset? What's the strategy for each pick? Who are they looking at? Not so much who you put in a mock draft because mock drafts are dependent on the pick in front of you.

and that take goes what are they going to do so that's what i really wanted to know um and like i said i had two pretty good people and i obviously exchanged what i got too so we never talked about the redskins or houston interesting um you know what yesterday or i think it was yesterday was the 20 year anniversary of don't you campbelly trade only because two people aspn and sports illustrated called me up to do articles on i i knew it was 20 years i didn't remember the date. Is it the best trade you were ever involved in? And by the way, let me just, for those that missed it, because we talked about it on the podcast the other day, Tommy and I did. It's the 20-year anniversary of Charlie basically fleecing Mike Ditkin, the Saints in a trade,

which sent all of their picks to the Redskins to move up seven spots. Is that the greatest trade you've ever been involved in? Well, getting two ones for Sean Gilbert. Yeah. That's pretty good. Getting Jim Lusay for Jay Schrader wasn't half bad either. No, well, Bobby Bethard did that. Okay, that's right. But that was a great trade. Well, from the point of view of everything that's surrounded, you know, we didn't know if we were going to be employed from day to day at that point.

Yeah, right. The team was up for sale. So, I mean, every day it walked in could be your last day. So we're making a trade. We don't even know if we're going to be there after the draft. And it involved, I think, 15 draft choices being swapped back and forth between two teams. and we ended up getting a player who went to the Hall of Fame and went to more Pro Bowls than any corner of history of the game.

So from that point of view, it was because it was a complex deal because we involved New Orleans and Chicago getting it all done. All right, three quick ones, and I'll let you run, because you know how much I appreciate the time. What's your favorite pick ever? And then secondly, what's the pick that you regret the most? Well, everyone that played well was my favorite. favorite pick. But do you have one that you felt really proud of?

Well, you know, Brian Mitchell, who's really an underrated player in the history of the NFL. Agreed. He's a running back. We took him in the fifth round. I think it was the end of the fifth round. It might have been last pick at a fifth round. And at the end of his career, he's the number one punt returner and kick returner in the history of the NFL. And he's number two all time in total yardage, like 230 yards behind Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice, who played seven more years.

I mean, that's an incredible accomplishment. So, of course, Champ Bailey, what he did is, you know, in a class by himself. Regrets, hey, there's a lot of regrets. I'm like, Ron Wolf said to me one time, he says, I don't remember the ones that didn't go. It didn't too well.

I don't remember the ones that did. But, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we traded up for Desmond Howard. Right. We overrated him. We thought he was going to be Roy Green. It wasn't Roy Green.

He did become MVP in a Super Bowl, returning the kick, but we didn't need a return. So, you know, we could have done better with that one, certainly, because there was other players in the draft, in retrospect, we should have taken. And Heath was, you can say it now. We're somewhat, you know, we're 25 years behind it. But Heath was really more Norv's guy, right?

Yeah, when he came in, I signed off on it. take responsibility. But Dilfer was our number one pick, but Norv wanted a mobile guy, and Dilfer wasn't that kind of guy. Gibbs would have loved Dilford. See, that's where I was coming from. Smart guy, strong guy, pocket guy, smart guy. That was a Gibbs guy.

But Norv wanted a mobile quarterback. Well, he was mobile. And we made up a tape one day and looked at him, and he was more mobile and Dillford. And so I signed off on it, and he's held out. which wasn't his fault. The contract was complex, and it was one never done in the NFL before. So that made it tough.

And he got behind, got hurt. Rod played well, made a Pro Bowl, and he could never string enough good games together because he did have some. He just couldn't string them together without getting hurt. So, you know, it didn't work. And the irony at the end, we traded him to New Orleans for a third and a fifth.

Right. Packers offered us the same deal, third and a fifth. They had Brett Barb. Ron Wolfe in Helgram, they offered third and fifth, and they had Barb. So, you know, they thought he could still play. I told Heath to go to Green Bay and sit. And he didn't want to. He wanted to play right away, and I said, this is a mistake.

He needed some time. They hired an experienced coordinator. I think he was an NFC player of the year one week, and then he had a career-ending injury. So at the end of the day, it didn't work. What was the biggest debate and or argument that you ever got into with Gibbs? Or anybody else, coach-wise, or in the organization? I think with Gibbs, I'm not going to get.

Some of them were about, you know, keeping some players on the roster. With the draft, Joe wasn't really that much involved. If you asked them to be involved, you'd get involved. But roster cuts. We had a couple of knock-down drag-outs. But that was good about Joe. Joe, let everybody talk. He's a communicator.

So Charlie, thanks. We'll be watching all the stuff on the NFL network over the next week. I really appreciate the time. As always, I'll talk to you soon. All right. We'll be with you now. I love talking to Charlie Casserly. You know, Charlie actually, and I've told him this before, but he's a very good communicator on television, you know, during all this draft buildup. And during the NFL season as well, he makes it very easy to understand, you know, the game. and the game from a personnel team executives standpoint. I've always loved that about Charlie.

And that Heath Schuller pick, you know, we've heard over the years, and I think I've asked Charlie about it before in the past, but Norv wanted Heath, they wanted Dilfer. I'm not sure Dilfer would have turned out that much better, but Heath Schuller was, you know, one of the all-time bust picks. He was the number three overall pick in 1994, and, you know, that was Norv's first year as head coach, and everybody, I mean, for those of you that don't remember or weren't alive for it or were too young for it,

they thought, the fan base thought, I thought, North Turner was coming here and it just drafted Troy Aitman. That was what we thought, is that Heath Shuler was going to become Troy Aitman and that Michael Westbrook, the following year, was going to become Michael Irvin. We were chasing the Cowboys back then. How pathetic. Quick word about launch workplaces in Bethesda. If you're looking for new office space and you're in the Bethesda, Upper Northwest D.C. Chevy Chase area and you're looking for private, affordable, fully furnished office solutions,

check out launch workplaces. Now, they've got other locations around town and you can find all of those at launchworkplaces.com. But if you're looking in Bethesda, call 240, 86714, mention my name, and you'll get an exclusive free two-day trial. They've got fully furnished offices, conference rooms, co-working desks, high-speed internet, complimentary drinks. They've got a cafe, plenty of parking, and it's all free. Again, 240, 86714, or launchworkplaces.com. Let's bring in Alan May, who, of course, is part of NBC Sports Washington's coverage of Caps games with Joe B and locker.

Caps lose last night, Alan, two to one. before we get to the OSHA stuff and the Fogel hit, overall, and I heard you say this last night and watching it as not a hockey expert or massive follower of the sport all year long, but I love the postseason. It appeared to me that it was the best start to finish game for the caps of the series. You agree with that, right? Well, the start after the first 17 seconds. Of course. They did get scored on.

But I thought the puck movement getting out of their own zone was somewhat better. Overall, you know, getting in on the forecheck and getting some high danger opportunities, that was better. So certainly the better are the two games there. But I still feel that because, you know, the fan base and maybe the media didn't take Carolina series, they were only two wins behind the capitals during the regular season. And they played a very different, difficult style. And yeah, that would playoff intensity of playing at home. It was definitely a huge upgrade for them.

but I still give the edge to the caps in those first two games on how they played, and they were able to do some great things in some of the periods. And, you know, maybe fell asleep a little bit at the wheel and let Carolina back in one of those games. But at the same time, they've got to continue finding ways to be better, and it's got to be a 60-minute, 80-minute, 90-minute, whatever. It's got to be better all the way around. One observation watching these games, this is a team that really fore-checks well in Carolina.

and because of it, Alan, at times I felt that they've really been taking it to the caps, and they've been very disruptive to the caps being able to generate and get into their offense from a structural standpoint. Is that accurate? 100% accurate. And the big thing the Capitals really did have trouble with the hurricanes in the first two games they played this year, and they got behind in the first two, the third one they got behind, and the game up for the first two, some great chances and it was holtie, the goal-tending that kept them in them.

And then they found ways to solve the puzzle. But you add playoff intensity, last-line teams in their building, they really took it to the cap. They never retreat. They never back off. It's a very unusual thing in the national hockey, because most teams know it to prevent defense. And these guys don't play safe.

They just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. And when the capitals are at home, I think I expect a lot different outcome. When the canes are pushing, the Capitol should be able to find the outlet passage. just because they're in their home confine. It also appears to me, and I think this is part of what you just described, that they have great team speed, Carolina does.

And I'm not saying that the caps don't, but at times, especially in game three, obviously, it looked like the caps were stuck in mud. Well, the big thing with that, I would just say that in the 10 years that I've been covering the capitals, I have never seen a crowded house and cheering fans in Carolina. like to the level that they were, at ice level, my noise-canceling headphones that are supposed to be sound from the outside, I was getting all types of crowd noise that was coming through my, the mics of Joby and Locker and myself, and there was a buzz in the arena all game. So you give up that first goal, you give up the second goal, you have the buzz of the fight,

the villain, the villain Ovi becomes, or booing and going crazy every shift. They had a great cheat. Emotionally they were charged, and I know from being a player, there are times sometimes in a playoff game where you just get rattled early like that and you have no energy, you have no speed, you're out of sorts. Believe me, the players have hated playing. Every player in the national hockey, we just hated playing in Carolina, Florida, and Arizona. So basically the last decade because there's been no fans in the buildings.

And it's no fun. You want to play in the NHL in a crowded house. It's no different than the NFL, Major League Baseball. You want to play in a field barn. So I think it was a little bit of overload, sensory overload for the game. capitals, a huge boost for the hurricanes, and it propelled them to look way faster because they didn't look faster in D.C., but they certainly looked the faster team in Raleigh. Having that last line change, getting the guys out there the way we were, and probably just so excited

to play in front of people. Yeah, all three of you have said that multiple times during both of the games in Raleigh about how loud and raucous that environment was, and it came through on television too. Overall, again, before we get to the OSHA stuff, overall, the lineup changes, the personnel changes that Reardon and Company made before game four last night, were they net positive or net negative? I thought they were positive. They can be a little bit better. I wouldn't mind seeing Kuznetsov, Ovetzhen, and Wilson, because I believe that the number totals for Wilson and Ovexton are far greater with Kuznetsoff right now. Nothing against Nick Batson,

but I think maybe you've got to go with that loaded deck, like Carolina loaded their deck, and go with Stan up there because with OEC out, you're going to have to figure it out. And I think you're going to have to elevate some more speed in the lineup. But I did like the lineup changes for the most part. I would like to see all the defensemen playing lefty-righty, rather than two righties and two lefties together.

And I just think under the ferocious fortune of the hurricanes, it would certainly help the capitals get those zone exits out and protect the puck at the same time. All right. Let's get to the Fogel hit on Oshy. Three things that I want you to weigh in on. Number one, did you think it was intentional? Number two, and you mentioned this immediately, so I know the answer, but for everybody else that didn't hear it, five-minute versus five-minute major versus two-minute minor. And lastly, do you think he'll be suspended? Well, I obviously, I didn't like it at all. That's a young player that's playing a little bit out of control right now, and he's having fun, having the time of his life, and he's playing very well. But I think there, he was overzealous in what he did, Ocean.

I know from being a player, you know, people were talking about the slash to the hands. That has nothing to do with anything. Everyone does that. The cross-check with a parallel stick to the ice in the lower back knocks you off balance. And when you're that far away from the board, it's a very dangerous play. I've seen players suspended for it. I've seen players suspended in the playoffs, not just a regular season. So I definitely thought it was a five.

The reason they didn't call a five is because the screw-up by the referees and the Michael Furlin hit last Saturday afternoon against Nick Dowd, and they blew that call. So now everyone's, are we making the right call? That's why they should be able to review what they think should be a five-minute call or not. So it should have been a five-minute. Do I think you should be suspended? Yes, from what I've seen in the past, the fact that T.J. Yoshi will not come back in these playoffs.

And the other thing that I just don't trust and don't believe in the Department of Player of Safety for the National Hockey League. They've made one screw up after another on all their suspension calls. They make hypocritical rulings. It seems like every week in what they do. And when you have to explain so many things from so many different angles all the time, you sound like a defense lawyer with the victim that we all know is guilty. What were they spending that additional time before making the call?

Weren't they at that moment considering five-minute major versus two-minute minor or not? Well, no one wants to be the guy that puts his foot down and says it's a five. So they were erring on the side of caution. Well, they knew it should have been a five, and that's what they were doing. Well, I didn't see enough. I was in the wrong position. But to me, it was an easy call. When you throw a guy headfirst into the boards like that is one of the most.

dangerous plays in hockey. It is the most dangerous playing hockey. And if something we're taught from the time we're little kids, you did on hit people from behind in that situation. And he did it. Fogel did it. I think he got carried away. I don't think he's a malicious or dirty player, but he got carried away and he did it. And I think he should pay in the police, but like I said, I have Zooli, the Department of Player's Safety. All right. Big picture, though, the OSHA loss, and that's the biggest takeaway from this thing. Where does it hurt the caps the most? Everywhere. I love the guy. He brings so many things to this team defensively. He's such a solid two-way play, and he's got great hands that's finished, an excellent pass or shooter. But he does a little bit of everything. You get him on the penalty kill. You get him on the power play. It's so important out there. Just controlling pucks inside the offensive zone. So it's a huge loss, and I love the player, and I'm so happy that the Capitol Strait is for him, and they stole them the way they did with Troy Brower. I still can't.

believe that happened, and that's why the capitals have a Stanley Cup. But with that being said, I saw the Pittsburgh Penguins with far better players, Sidney Crosby, Malkin, Chris LaTang, out of their lineup and win games against the Capitals, two and three seasons ago in the playoffs. I think the Capitals, too, man, have to step up. The player who gets in the lineup next has to make sure that he's relevant, and he can't just go in there and put the Jersey on. I believe he has to own it and want to be a star and a hero. And that's the only way every player should be thinking right now is he needs me the extra level to be that player that gets their team victories.

And I talked about this at the beginning of the show. I don't think the old thing of feeling the pressure, the angst of potentially losing a series again. That's all gone. That ended last year when they came from behind in every single series and they took home the cup. I think there has been a sweat. wagger about this group that I think will play out here over the final three games as defending

champs. Do you agree or disagree? I agree with you 100%. And that's a narrative of, you know, people that got to put out 500 words every three or four hours. And the players don't, we saw it, and I was getting sick of talking about it for years because every group is a different chemical compound. And how they go out and how they perform. But the majority of this group going into that, they only had a couple players on the roster that weren't on the team last. at this time. One of the things that's going to be, you know, for a lot of Caps fans,

they're going to make them very happy, is they're going to bring back a player Devonthe Smith-Telley. He's been called up. He's on his way here now, and he is going to come here, and he's going to want to prove people wrong. He's going to prove the coaching staff wrong,

management wrong, and he's going to prove to his old teammates and his teammates now, and he still has what it takes, and he can be a guy, and I wouldn't want nothing more for him to come in here and, you know, and take ownership of what he did this year and how he wasn't prepared to play at the start of the season, how he didn't have the greatest year.

And they devoted them, and he was waiting to know him put a claimant on him, and show everyone that he's still an NHL player, that he has what it takes. He'll be a free agent in the summer. And make everyone want the Devante Smith-Pelly that comes to play in the playoffs because he's had two good playoffs in his career. Unfortunately, he's had three teams basically get rid of him in his career. You've got to show people who the real Devante Smith-Pelly is. He's got to take ownership of it.

There's ownership of it, and I hope he can be a hero. Smith Pelly being called up today. By the way, just breaking while you're sitting here talking to me on this podcast, no hearing, no suspension for Warren Fogel. Not surprised. I have zero faith in George Peros in the Department of Player Safety. And when they come out and the explanations that they use, they're usually garbage. They're hypocritical.

They contradict themselves on a week-to-week basis, and I am not surprised whatsoever. Is Saturday night's game, a you guys game, or is it NBC? Well, we waited and waited and waited and it's going to, the puck drop is going to be about 8, 12. It's going to be NBC. We're still going to have a one-hour pregame show and a one-hour posting show. If anyone's still awake, and hopefully there's not five over times, but regardless, hopefully it's after a cap's win. All right. You're doing great job, a great job.

Really enjoy the telecast, as always. Thanks so much for making time today, Alan. Appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it with you. Our discussion with Alan brought to you by Mama Lucia Restaurants and the Mamma Lucha Caps Hockey Special. It includes a chicken parmesan dinner and a large pizza priced already at a discount at $30. But if you order online at mamaluchia restaurants.com and use my promo code, Kevin C-E-V-I-N-C-A-P-S, all lowercase, you'll get $10 off the already discounted price of $30.

So you'll pay $20 for a chicken parmesan dinner and large pizza. Again, if you use my promo code, Kevin Caps, K-E-V-I-N-C-A-P-S at mama lucia restaurants.com. Pick-up and delivery is offered. All right, thanks to Alan May, who actually did us a solid this morning. He got into his car and drove down to the bottom of the street so that he had a clear connection for the podcast. He's a great guy personally.

we appreciate him coming on the podcast today. Quick reminder that if you're listening on iTunes, please rate it, review it, and subscribe to it. No cost. It just helps us out. And we're also available via our website, the kevin-sheanshow.com. So for those that don't do iTunes or anywhere else,

just tell them to listen to it on the website at kevin-sheanshow.com. Thekevinshian-show.com or kevin-sheanshow.com. We're also available on a lot of other platforms, Stitcher, Tune-in, Spotify, Google Play, all of the Apple podcast platforms as well. All right, a couple of things to finish up the show with. First of all, Patrick Corbyn's been really good for the Nats. And he had a great outing yesterday, and the Nats took that series closer against San Francisco, four to two.

He's had four starts. If you go back and look at all four of the starts, they've all been quality starts. Even though yesterday was his first actual day. W of the year. He has pitched great. It's a phenomenal acquisition for them. And they still, when you look at their starting pitching, at least at least at this point, Scherzer Corbin, Scherzer Corbin as a one-two, hopefully Strasbourg as well. And, you know, Helixen's pitched well at times, but they still should have the starting pitching. But that's a good win for the Nats. By the way, Doolittle did have to pitch yesterday in short turnaround after having to come in

in a game that the caps led by seven the other night. I wanted to also mention this Josh Rosen quote. And it came yesterday, and this was like a headline on ESPN.com. The Josh Rosen story has become a massive story here as we build up to the draft. Why? Well, it's obvious why. Because the Cardinals have the first pick in the draft, and people are expecting them to take Kyler Murray, which means by extension they expect a trading of Josh Rosen.

Rosen was on, did some interview yesterday during a trip to the Grand Canyon with some of his UCLA teammates. The interview was on, I don't know who did the interview, trying to find it, but it's not important. I'll read you the quotes. Quote, when asked about Murray and trade, you know, rumors, et cetera, he said, quote, it's annoying, but it is what it is. football is a business and I definitely respect the higher ups and their decisions. We won three games and each one of those wins to me, it felt like we won the Super Bowl and that feeling is so intoxicating and that's why I just want nothing more than to be a part of a team next year and have the same opportunities to go out and compete, close quote.

I think it's a guy that understands that more likely than not he's going to be dealt. By the way, it's annoying to me. I would have to hear it rather than read it, but I think he follows it up with football's a business. It is what it is. I don't think he's complaining or, you know, showing some sort of, that it's some sort of temper tantrum or anything like that. I think it's a throwaway line to say, yeah, it's annoying.

I want this thing to get resolved quickly. He's probably going to have to wait. until the draft. And more likely than not after the draft, I doubt he'd be traded, because at that point, you're talking about picks in next year's draft. So I think if something gets done, it's going to get done before next Thursday night. We had Casserly on the show earlier, and you know what Charlie said? Charlie said that nobody's given up a first for Rosen. So we'll see here. It could happen day two or day three of the draft. I'm not saying that it has to happen before the draft starts or the first round of the draft.

If nobody gives up a first rounder for Rosen, then you're into the second round on day two, the second and third round, and it's possible that that's when someone gives up a package of a second, third, and something else. And remember, the Cardinals could be on the clock in the second round and have a big need, but they need to trade up,

or they need a higher pick in the second round than the one they already have, or one that comes after the one they already have. and there may be a player there that they're desperate to get. They can't get without trading Rosen. So all of those things are in play. I still think today that Rosen doesn't get dealt to the Redskins. The more and more I think about it and the more conversations I have with people,

I do think that Bruce Allen believes that Case Keenham is going to prove him right. And we know that he can be very stubborn on some of the players, some of the players, especially, that he's gone out on a limb, and he's been involved more than anybody else in acquiring. And I think he believes Case Keenham is the answer for next year. And yes, they could still draft somebody, but drafting somebody may become for more down the road. Now, if they draft somebody at 15 and Charlie thinks they're going to draft a quarterback at 15,

it's certainly going to be a lot of discussion as to whether or not Drew Locke or Daniel Jones or Dwayne Haskins, one of those three, if it's one of those three at 15, if they're ready to start. And if this team should start a rookie quarterback next year. But I do think that Bruce has a level of confidence in Case Keenham or in his ability to find the answer quarterback. And I believe that Bruce believes that he found the answer quarterback last year. I think that there was a lot of self-congratulating going on last year during the first eight games, nine games of the year, that they had gone out and traded for Alex Smith, even though in my view,

Alex Smith was very average to subpar, really, most of the time, as a quarterback, even though they were winning games. They were winning games for sure. Lastly, did you have anything? I was just going to mention the NBA playoffs last night. I did, fortunately, I didn't miss anything, but last night I did not stay up for the second half of the Warriors Clippers game, nor did I have to.

And the performance of the night, by far was what Derek White did for San Antonio and taking a two one series lead over Denver. He went for 36 points last night. And this is a guy that averaged nine points a game during the regular season. And he went for 36 last night for the Spurs, shooting 15 of 21 from the floor. And then the Ben Simmons performance after Jared Dudley had basically called them average as a half-court player. Simmons was terrific last night for Philadelphia. Went for 31 points on 11 for 13 from the floor. In fact, in 76ers history, and they've got some history in that franchise.

It's the highest percentage shooting 30-point-plus night in the history of postseason basketball for the Philadelphia 76ers. He was brilliant last night. Simmons was and really put it in Dudley's face last night. Dudley shot a three-pointer at one point, and it was an air ball, and Simmons mocked him. Although Simmons was great after the game, he did not really, he did not stick his chest out that much in the post-game press conference. I think he's a very, very unique player and a really good player. There are times when I've watched him before where I've wondered why the effort isn't consistently high-level, high-energy. But,

the 76ers should win this series. Anyway, what else? Do you have anything else? Well, the Redskins did sign a Josh at quarterback yesterday. Yes. This is a guy that they're, what's it? Josh, Josh Woodrum. Yeah, Josh Woodrum. He played for the AAF. He was on the Giants. I don't know if he was on practice squad or just a backup for a while. Played at Liberty a couple years ago. Yeah. So this is, they have to sign, they had to sign a quarterback. For OTAs, in many camps, They're going to need healthy quarterbacks available so that the rest of the team can practice.

And right now, the only healthy quarterback before they sign this guy, Josh Woodrum, who, by the way, is a training camp quarterback. Understand that. He's an OTA mini-camp training camp quarterback. Right now the only healthy guy they had or before Woodrum was Case Keenum, because Colt McCoy is not ready to go and may not be ready to go until some time right before training camp. The mad ionitis thing, I think we weighed in on yesterday. I mean, I like what they've done. And it's a reminder, too, that, you know, when you hear people who haven't followed the team, you know, on the Landon Collins signing, as an example, say, there go the Redskins again. It just hasn't been the Redskins for 10 years.

We all know that. We all know there's been more emphasis on drafting players, has been more emphasis on signing their own versus going outside and free agency. They've had some big name signings. We know that. We know that Josh Norman and Deshawn Jackson were big off-season splashes and that Landon Collins is a big off-season splash. But it's been a completely different way of doing business over the last 10 years. It just has been. And Matt Ionitis is one of those picks for this franchise over the last 10 years where they've, hit on that pick, and they have kept that pick.

You know, and they kept him on a pretty team favorable deal for the most part. Is Ioannitis an elite player? No, but he's a very effective player who had seven and a half sacks last year as an interior pass rusher. And when he's been healthy, he's been very, very good for them. But, you know, he's now in that list of, you know, starting really in 2010, right, with Trent Williams and keeping Trent Williams. keeping Ryan Carrigan and keeping guys that have performed from them, guys that they've drafted. They, you know, I know Alfred Morris wasn't a guy they ultimately kept, but they did with Jordan Reed.

They have with Morgan Moses. And, you know, there have been plenty of picks that they've missed on. Obviously, the next one they've got to get done is Brandon Sheriff. Again, I think a very interesting storyline to watch here over the next couple of months. because if they don't get a deal done with him, doesn't mean they can't get it done when the season starts, or even after the season. But the closer, and this should be a lesson from the quarterback from a few years ago, you allow a player to get close to free agency,

that player is going to want free agency. You've got to lock them up before free agency is within sniffing distance. And once the season starts, now Brandon Sheriff knows he's either headed towards a franchise test, or he's headed towards unrestricted free agency. And it's worked out well, and it did work out well two years ago for Andrew Norwell.

All right, have a great weekend. Caps game tomorrow night, obviously, is huge. Thanks to Charlie Casserly. Thanks to Alan May. Aaron did a great job. We will be doing draft stuff every day next week, and we'll be doing a lengthy draft show on Thursday and Friday. And hopefully Cooley will be a part of both of those shows.

We're just trying to work on his schedule here to nail that down. So have a great weekend back on Monday.