The Kevin Sheehan Show - Carolina North

Episode Date: January 7, 2020

Kevin and Thom opened with their feelings on Ron Rivera turning the Redskins into "Carolina North." They discussed whether or not they want Trent Williams back in DC. Also quick conversations about the Dallas, Carolina, and Giant hires. Some Cousins, Brees, and Sean Payton talk too. Kevin and Aaron finished up the show with a Terps-Buckeyes preview. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Tommy's calling in from Florida today. Aaron's here. I'm here. And as is typically the case with this podcast, you know, news in sports starts to trickle out, you know, sometime after about 10 a.m. And this morning, already since the radio show ended, Tommy, Matt Ruhl's been, he's going to take the care of. head coaching job. So the Baylor coach, who is really an exceptional football coach and did a great job at Baylor this year, is going to be the new head coach of Carolina, which you pretty much knew that Tepper, the new owner, was going to go with somebody young, somebody innovative, somebody analytics, you know, driven, that whole thing. But here's the best tweet I've seen all morning long. Ian Rappaport, just moments ago, tweeted the following. Are you ready for this one? Yes, I am, sir. The Giants have requested permission to speak with former Cowboys coach Jason Garrett. He's still under contract in Dallas until January 14th, so permission was required.

They can't be interviewing Jason Garrett for the head coaching position, can they? They can't do that. I mean, that's a fan base that would just revolt. I mean, they're revolting right now in the news. news. Yeah, that is just unbelievable. You can't do that. And you'd have to have a serious, you'd have to have what you call some kind of

psychiatric exam for an owner who would do something like that, totally oblivious to what the narrative is about Jason Garrett. Look, the Giants seem to have gotten shut out in this whole coaching process. I mean, they were interested in Ron Rivera a little bit. it, and the Redskins, the Dan Snyder's credit, moved quickly on the punch. Gettlement admitted that. And the same thing happened with the Baylor coach.

They were interested in the Baylor coach, and they got beat. Now, I thought Joe Banner tweeted they might not have gotten them anyway, but they didn't even, but they weren't the first in line. Carolina was there waiting for him, I guess, when he got back from vacation or flew the vacation wherever he was. Whatever Carolina did, they jumped in the front of the line to make sure they got his name on the dotted line. How does Jason Garrett satisfy the Rooney Rule requirements? I mean, red hair?

I mean, seriously, there's no possible way they're hiring Jason Garrett. Although, you know, I'm looking up Jason Garrett because I wanted to see where he played. I know he's always coached in Dallas. Actually, he coached for two years in Miami as the quarterback's coach. I didn't realize that. But, you know, he played for the Giants from 2000 to 2003. He actually played, it was on their roster, and he backed up Kerry Collins in New York in the early 2000s,

which means he would have been on that team that went to the Super Bowl and lost to the Ravens. I didn't realize that. That's right. You know, if you're at a giant, you have to hire somebody that nobody knows about so they can't hate them. Yeah, like drafting Daniel Jones. Yeah, somebody like that.

Look, I think Marvin Lewis is a good football coach, but I don't think the science can hire him either. I think the fans would go nuts. Do you know, Jason Garrett apparently spoke at an owner's meeting last spring, I think it was? I was reading about this over the weekend before it became official that he was gone in Dallas. and apparently wowed the audience, which was owners. And I can't remember where I read this, Tommy, but basically it was a paragraph that said,

Jason Garrett is an impressive person. He spoke at the owner's meetings last spring, and everybody walked out of that room, incredibly impressed with Jason Garrett. Clearly, Jared didn't want to move on from him. He loves Jason Garrett. And maybe even in those three or four years of him playing when the Maras own the team, and they still own the team, in the early 2000s,

along with their recent impressions of him, maybe they're just really impressed with Jason Garrett the person. They can't hire him. No, you can't hire him. Again, he just can't do it. I mean, the backlash would just be too severe. And this is the New York Giants we're talking about. I mean, arguably, the Giants shouldn't have to settle. anybody when it comes to coach.

I agree with that. Although Gettleman might be, you know... He might be a roadwalk. I don't know why he would be. You know, I think he's probably gotten... It's probably a narrative that people in football don't necessarily buy, the one that median fans may be buying about him. Do you know who really liked Daniel Jones?

Really like Daniel Jones, and they would have considered trading up if they had to end a first round to get him. Bill Belichick loved Daniel Jones. The Patriots absolutely thought Daniel Jones would be a good pick as the quarterback to eventually replace Brady. And we've seen nothing to indicate that that's not the case so far. Daniel Jones looks the part. I mean, he had some terrible games, but he certainly looks like he's not, you know, I sort of feel like about him the way I feel about Dwayne now, and that is, I think the bus potential is low.

You know, and the bus potential on most first round picks is pretty high, actually, if you think about it over the years. But how about the Cowboys, though, hiring Mike McCarthy to basically be the new puppet coach for Jerry Jones? You know, Tommy, I know our situation, my situation anyways, a Redskin fan, is not any better than the Cowboys. It's actually been worse than the Dallas situation over the years. The Cowboys have, to their credit, a lot of regular seasons that have been really good. Yes, they have. But Mike McCarthy, that's the move? Like, McCarthy, I guess, you know, and I read a bunch about him last night,

isn't going to raise any sort of stink over Jerry's involvement. You know, he just wants to coach ball and isn't going to care about Jerry being involved in personnel. It isn't going to be worried about Jerry doing, you know, his own press. after each game. And I guess maybe, you know, if you're a cowboy fan, you're like, it can't be any worse than it was, but McCarthy's not like, I thought they would turn to something really exciting. I thought Lincoln Riley or Urban Meyer or something really exciting for

cowboy fans. But, man, Mike McCarthy, have at it. It might work out, maybe. I don't see it. Well, maybe Mike McCarthy is, well, one thing. Maybe, look, how old is Jerry? How old is Jerry? in mid to late 70s, right?

I mean, you know, maybe Mike McCarthy is sitting there thinking, well, the old man can't last forever, you know? He looks pretty good. I know he does. I know he does, but, uh, and look, it's, again, he's a Dallas Cowboys. Okay, that's what I thought. He was 77. And, uh, maybe McCarthy's thinking, hey, you know, I mean, you know, two, three years, he'll be 80, you know, I mean, look how long Jason Garrett lasted there.

without any real postseason success. I can wait the old man out. Yeah. You know, as you were talking, I was also thinking about this, and it's something that I thought about this morning. You know, Cowboy and Redskin fans, you know, the two are really kindred spirits in so many ways

because both fan bases have basically been victims, you know, of bad ownership for 20 plus years. You know, Jerry, I know, he's a Hall of Famer, you know, Hall of Fame coach, a Hall of Fame owner, excuse me, He's done a hell of a lot for the league from a business standpoint. That's all well and good. Everybody will admit that. But his franchise has won three playoff games in the last 23 years.

Three. That's it. I know. The Redskins have won two in the last 21 years. That's not good either. But, you know, it's not like there's – you're talking about two elite and proud franchises from yesteryear that both of them have been brought to their collective knees over the last two decades by two owners who have not been able to figure it out.

Yeah. No, you're right. Absolutely. There are two franchises that in the 70s and 80s were considered a gold standard in the NFC. Yeah. And not anymore. No, not anymore. So we'll see.

How are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm doing really well. You're, you know, we only have one bad day. We've had great weather, as you know, warm weather. It's going to be in the 60s this coming weekend, but today is a step back day. We're supposed to get snow right in time for rush hour in this city, which should be lovely, I'm sure.

And I'm going out to the Maryland game tonight. You know I hate 7 o'clock starch trying to get there. But Scott's coming into town, so I'm going to go to the game with him. But I'm going to probably leave here at like 3 o'clock. Because if I don't. If I don't, I probably won't get there for the game if it's really snowing as hard as they say it's going to snow this afternoon. But I'm doing fine. Well, I'm doing fine.

The weather here, the weather here is postcard weather. 65 and sunny every day. Last night I watched the sunset from Pompano Joe's bar right on the beach. Drinking a Destin' ale, looking at a cigar. The weather here has just been fabulous. So this has been a great trip. And I really say to myself every day, why would I go back? You know what, Tommy? Seriously, why would you? I don't, I mean, you have the ability to do what you want to do. You can write from anywhere.

So the only thing is, I mean, the radio show is important to me. Oh, right. And I couldn't do the radio show from there. And you can only stay away so long. Well, you might be able to do the radio show from there. No, I don't think so. Plus, it's not a good radio show. If, you know, I just don't think it is as good a radio show if you're not together. Usually, I think you and I were definitely an example of that. Cooley, if I had been in the same studio with him, he was never going to look at me anyway, so it didn't matter.

But, yeah, you and I had this thing where I always felt like we were better when we were in the same studio than a part. But I know a lot of radio shows where it really doesn't matter. Oh, I know. I know. But I'll be back. In fact, I'll be back in time to broadcast live from NASFest on one of those. six, seven the fan, Saturday and Sunday morning. So just giving you a heads up on that. That's very good. I'm jealous because just the way you painted that picture, being sitting outside, 65 degrees, sunset, beer in hand, hanging out.

That's vacation, brother. That is vacation. And I'm on the Gulf, so it's a really good sunset. Oh, it's a beautiful sunset. It's setting over the water. That's pretty cool. A couple things to get to. First of all, we're not going to spend a lot of time on this,

but I think we do need to acknowledge the Washington Wizards who last night beat the Boston Celtics. And it is now, in the last week, they own three wins over three of the top five or six teams in the league. You know, they beat Miami last week, blew out the heat last week. The heat are 26 and 10. They beat Denver the other night. blew Denver out. Denver is the number two team in the West right now at 25 and 11.

And then last night at home, they beat Boston, the second best team in the east. And Boston's been on a roll too. It's not like Boston had won like eight of nine coming in. And the Wizards beat him 99-94. In fact, it's the first time they've held somebody under 100 since like game number four of the year. And Tommy, they had nobody playing for him last night. Beal was out. Hachamura was out. Bryant was out, Wagner was out, Bertons was out. And they were playing, you know, Mahimmi and Isaiah Thomas and Peyton and McCray and Banga and all these guys. Ish Smith is my man. I love him.

And let me just give you a heads up. He's a great guest, great guest on a radio show. I had him on a month and a half ago, really smart, engaging. And he's a good player. I've always been a fan of him going back to Wake Forest. He had 27 last night, had 32 on Saturday night. Remember at the beginning of this season after like three or four games? I said, you know, they're actually better than they even think they are. Well, I wasn't talking about this roster, the one they're playing with now. It's crazy that they've won three games over three really good teams in a week.

And that's fun. That's enjoyable. But what does it mean for the long-term growth? I don't know. Probably nothing. A lot of these players aren't going to be here. Of course. Of course.

They're in a modified tanking situation. Yeah, and you've got a coach that I don't believe is the guy to move them to the next step. So it's enjoyable to have these moments. If you're a wizard's fan, God bless them for delivering these moments every now. And then otherwise will be a 30-win season probably. But it doesn't translate. It's not you're saying, oh, we're seeing the beginning of something that's going to be good. most of these guys he talked about are not going to be here, and I don't think the coach will be here either when they make that move.

No, but Tommy Shepard has an opportunity with a couple of these guys, certainly Davos Bertans in particular, to leverage some of the play into picks. I think Bertons could bring back a first before the trade deadline. But anyway, that's enough on them. So a couple things we need to get to here. I'm going to get to a Redskins thing. Go ahead. I got one thing I wanted to get to a Redskins thing. Okay.

You can go ahead. No, go ahead. You start. Okay. Here's what I don't get. There's a narrative out there right now, particularly with the Redskins firing Larry head, hiring a new trainer and now bringing in a new medical consultant, that this is all part of the campaign to get Trent Williams back into the building.

My question to you is, why would you want Trent Williams back? in the building. I mean, if you're building something new here, I mean, has the, has the move for Trent Williams changed in the past year? Isn't it the move to trade him? Yeah, it is. It's funny because I would have traded him a year ago, as you know. I would have traded him during the summer, early in the season, before the trade deadline, et cetera. But I'm sort of in this mode right now. I still think it would make sense to trade them. You know, I do. But I'm sort of in this mode of, and I'll just dovetail off of what you were talking about to get to this,

because I've talked about this a little bit on the show over the last couple of shows, I think. And I'm going to read you this tweet that I got from Greg last night. Kevin, why are you okay with the Carolina North movement, you know, referring to Ron Rivera hiring everybody he worked with, worked with and four in Carolina. And then he, of course, proceeded to tell me about Ron Rivera's six losing regular seasons in nine years, and the Panthers haven't won a playoff game in four years, yada, yada, yada, and he ended the tweet with, just doesn't seem like a great idea to me. Why does it to you?

And I have sort of answered this before, but maybe not with you on the show. I'm not as a fan. I wasn't looking for a great idea. I don't think they're capable of great ideas. And when they've had, I'm looking for a new idea. I think all of us just wanted something new. You know, asking for great is a big ask with this owner. Now, when they've had good ideas in the past,

they've pretty much messed those up. You know, Marty was a really good idea. Messed it up. Gibbs was a really good idea. Should have been much better, but Dan and Vinny were still in. involved. So they messed it up. Shanahan was a solid idea, but he brought Bruce in simultaneously. And, you know, I said this morning, it's like Dan and Bruce together were like, you know,

a couple of monkeys with bottle rockets in a room full of talented adults. You know, it's like, think about this weekend coming up. Kyle Shanahan versus Kirk Cousins and Matt LaFleur in the other NFC game versus Seattle. And the defending NFC champion is coached by. Sean McVeigh. You think about Redskins Park six years ago. That building was filled with future playoff coaches, a playoff quarterback, and all the while, you know, Dan and Bruce are smoking cigars, drinking Coors lights, playing putt putt in Bruce's office and plotting to get rid of the Shanahan's and plotting to put RG3 back into the starting lineup with Jay Gruden as the new coach, a coach that Bruce knew very well and knew he could control. On the scale,

of ideas, Tommy. That wasn't one of their best. So it's like, I'm not looking for great. I'm looking for something new. New doesn't mean better. It just means new. Like the old was bad, all-time bad here recently. The new at least includes a very good coach who probably would have been better off going somewhere else. You and I would both agree on that. That's true. But he is here, very likely because Joe Gibbs told him it could work. And I don't care how much of the Panther organization he brings with him. The more new faces, the better. The old faces never won anything and certainly didn't make me think that they were irreplaceable.

Like, I've been very entertained, and I don't know if you've been the same, about the hand-wringing and the angst over, oh, my God, Eric Schaefer, you've got to keep Eric Schaefer. I mean, my God. I mean, some of it's coming from people we know, and I'm like, are you effing serious? You don't know anything about Eric Schaefer. What's really entertaining about this is it's like, you had a quarterback here and you're okay that he's gone,

but you've got to keep Eric Schaefer. Like, are you kidding me? It's so insane. But, you know, this is sort of what the organization's turned a lot of us into, over the years is that we're, you know, we're, we're bipolar, we are ADHD. We don't know if we're coming or we're going on any of this. But my point is this, I absolutely don't care, and I'm all for changes. Carolina move north. We want Trent Williams back. If that's what Ron wants, and Ron's allowed to get what he gets, to me, if he gets what he wants, that will be the first

indication that maybe things are starting to change. Now, obviously, the owner might want Trent back as well. But I don't care what Ron Rivera does. I'm all in on Ron Rivera, because it's the best and latest of the new ideas. That's where I am right now. Do you know how desperate that is? I'm very aware of how desperate it is. But it's like being punished by somebody who hits you over the head with a hammer for 20 years. And all of a sudden, they decided. to change tools to torture you by. And you say, well, you're not using the hammer anymore. How bad way they stay? You've got me hooked up to some sort of electrical outlet, but you know what? It's better than the hammer. It's true.

You know, listen, their coaching staff was so bad. It's so bad this year that anything is an improvement. So I don't have a big issue with the Carolina North movement. Because, I mean, they would be hard-pressed to be worse than the coaches who were in the building. And Eric Schaefer, Eric Schaefer is a Redskins-Bovda media creation. No doubt. I mean, I mean, if you, I remember, I said to somebody, I didn't know you agreed with me on this. If I was interviewing somebody, Eric Schaefer, and he had on his resume that he worked for the Redskins and Dan Snyder for 17 years,

I look at him and I say, what is wrong with you? Exactly. Exactly. What did you have to do for work for Dan Snyder for 17 years? Tommy, it's 100% right. And, you know, I do know Eric is a bright guy. He's a lawyer. He's a contract guy, cap guy.

I mean, come on, people. I mean, are you serious? You don't think in this day and age there are a dozen guys that could come in do Eric Schaefer's job. Like, I mean, is he really? contributed to all of these losses. I wouldn't blame them for all these losses, but I'm certainly not going to think that we can't win without them after 18 years. But to your point, you know, all of these people, other than the people that Mike brought in, okay, other than the coaches that Mike

brought in, and by the way, some of the front office people that Marty brought in. Other than the two, you know, and Joe, Greg Williams, some of his coaches are still coaching. But tell me one person that's been aggressively sought after by other quality organizations. I've never read, and I could be wrong, that Eric Schaefer's been aggressively pursued by teams to be their general manager or team president. You know, he's been in Washington for 17 or 18 years. It could certainly be that he just wanted to live here, that he likes living here, his families from here. And I know that Eric is a smart guy and a capable guy and a respected guy. Like, I'm not, I'm not killing Schaefer. I'm killing the people that think you can't win without Schaefer.

Like, you don't even know who Eric Schaefer is. You couldn't pick him out of a police lineup. And it's only, it's so typical with this fan base. They know who Tony Wiley is. They know who Eric Scha. Nobody in a real organization knows who these people are. And so I just don't get it. Like, the latest new idea of,

the latest new idea is Ron Rivera, Ron Rivera having control. Let's roll with it. I'm happy that it's him because I think he's a quality. head coach. I do. And if maybe Dan steps back and lets him do his thing for a little while, maybe it'll work out. But you know, you said, beaten down for so long. I actually admitted the following thing on this podcast either yesterday or on Friday and maybe on the radio show as well yesterday or today. I can't remember. That I am actually looking forward to Ron Rivera maybe having sort of the same

run that Joe Gibbs had in his second go-round. Four years, losing record, but two sort of backdoor, you know, eke into the playoffs and competitive seasons. Like, I think he's capable of that. Now, maybe he produces more, more likely than not he won't, not in this organization, but I would be thrilled with that at that point. That's so far from like championship aspirations and like real good sustained success kind of aspirations, because I don't have those anymore. I'm hoping for Joe Gibbs 2004 to 2007 with Ron Rivera. Let's have a couple of nine and sevens, a 10 and six, get to the playoffs, win a game. Joe, the last time this organization won a playoff game, it was Joe in Tampa in 2005.

How much better would that be than what we've been suffering through here recently? Of course it would. Of course it would be better. But, again, that wouldn't be the momentum that you need, I think, to turn around the fan base. People would come, but not the real turnaround situation. And we talk about this on Friday. I wrote about it in the Washington Times on Monday that the only way to break the Snyder virus, I think, for Ron Rivera, is the Joe Tori model with George Seimbrner. You said this to me.

Woo! I said this morning on the radio, I said, who was I talking to recently that said, I swear to God, who said he's got to win quickly. He's got to win quickly. And I'm so sorry. I forgot that it was you. Well, you know, if you read my column, you'd probably know that for crying out loud, where I pointed out that, you know, Tori became so successful so quickly that Steinbrenner was okay, with her for a while, but then he, you know, the downside was he got tired of not getting any credit for it. Right. But by then, Joe was so powerful that Steinbrenner couldn't do anything about it.

He had to shut up. He literally had to stay away. And actually, I talked to Buster Only and Bill Matt, who both, baseball writers who both covered George during that time. And they said that they thought the comparison was pretty good, that that's exactly what happened in New York, and that the only reason that's the only reason that's the story. Seinfraeder, the Yankees didn't make the playoff from 81 to 96 because of Steinbredder for the most part. And when Joe won two World Series in three years, that there was nothing George could do even if he wanted to.

I mean, because Joe had become, you know, adored, revered. And Rivera has a charisma about him where he's pretty likable, you know. And that comes into play as well. I pointed out that, you know, Shanahan wasn't a likable guy. Marty was not unlikable, but he wasn't particularly warm or likable. Rivera is. I mean, people were fawning over him in that press conference that we talked about that wasn't any, where we didn't hear anything different than we heard before from other coaching candidates.

But because Rivera said it, I compared it to that scene in Josie Wales where the Indian Ten Bear says, to Josie Wales, your words have steel in them. You know, that's what Rivera is like. I agree with you. He has the charisma. If the results are there, to become very popular. I don't... Extremely popular.

I guess I agree with you that he's very likable. I don't know how much charisma he has, but he is definitely a guy that relates well to younger players. in an accountability way. Like, you know, you don't want guys that are looking for Jay Grudens. You're never going to win big if your players are satisfied not being coached or having it be, you know, real easy and being able to sort of dictate when they practice hard and when they don't.

And you don't know that until you've actually played for a hard ass and had success. And then you're like, oh, he's actually made me better as a player, as a person. and this is how you do things. You know, this is how you actually achieve and win. There's a work ethic. There's a way to do it. But, you know, it's not unusual for people young or old to try to take the path of least resistance, which is like a Jay Gruden type of coach.

So I do like that he is a tough guy and still the players really like him. And they end up growing to like him more and more and more as they're with them more and more and more. You know, you say that about Marty, and I pointed this out today on the radio show, LeVar Arrington really was one of the more talented players over the last 20 years to wear a redskin uniform. He was gifted, man. He had incredible athletic ability, talented. One of the most physically gifted players I've ever seen. No doubt. And that year with Marty, I've said this before, but I'm convinced of it. I think Levar Arrington had Marty Schottenheimer coached him for his. entire career, he would have been a great player and an all-time great redskin. And unfortunately, it didn't happen and he didn't have good coaching here and didn't ultimately get it together and had injuries and the whole thing. But I bet you even Lovar Arrington would tell you that if Marty Schottenheimer had coached him for his entire career, because that year, at the end of that year,

man, LeVar, he was all over the place. He was in coverage dominating. He was pressuring dominating. He was, that was the best I saw of him. And he had more sacks with Marvin Lewis. You know, when Marvin Lewis came in here as Spurrier's defensive coordinator. But the Marty year, I think if Marty had stayed, it would have turned him into it. And I think a guy like Marty, even though he's salty and perhaps, you know, not the easiest guy in the world to get along with, you know, always sort of commanded the room and demanded the respect to the players too. But I think, I think you're right. Rivera is more likable.

I'm not talking about the players. I'm talking about the fans as much in this case. I think he'll be likable if he wins. The fan base. I mean, and if he wins big quickly, he'll be more than likable. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he'll be put on a pedestal. Yeah, he'll be God.

You know, and Snyder will be powerless, although I might want to point out that didn't stop Jerry Jones from forcing Jimmy Johnson out after a couple of Super Bowls when Jerry was pissed off because he wasn't getting any credit for the Cowboys. success. And Jerry is Snyder's roll-on. Breaking news, the Giants have hired their new head coach, according to Adam Schaefter. He is Joe Judge, special teams coordinator, wide receivers coach in New England for Belichick. He's been with Belichick since 2012, started as a special team's assistant, special teams coordinator, and has been the special teams coordinator and wide receivers coach for the last couple of years. What were you going to say, Aaron? There's another addition to that. Ian Rappaport just tweeted,

one note on the Giants. Matt Ruhle called them before signing a six-year deal with the Panthers and gave them the opportunity to match and Lorham to get on the plane. They declined and hired Joe Judge instead. Wow. Okay, so Matt Ruhl signs with Carolina, but Matt Rueh wanted the giant job, basically, according to Rappaport. So that means only the Browns, and that's it.

The Browns have to make a hire, and everybody's got their guys. Assuming there's not. McCarthy to Dallas, Rivera to New York, ruled to Carolina, and then Cleveland's still out there, unless somebody else gets fired, which at this point, Marone looks like he's staying in Jacksonville, right? It looks like Marone. Yeah, he does. I thought if Houston lost, maybe O'Brien would get the axe, but they won, so. Yeah.

And you, God, you know what we didn't talk about? My favorite team, as somebody said this morning on radio, that the Vikings were actually considering getting rid of Mike Zimmer had they lost that game on Saturday, on Sunday in New Orleans. He's a damn good coach. Conservative is hell, but a damn good coach. Yeah, and I think I read that if they did, the Cowboys were ready to jump on him. The Cowboys, I think, would have hired Zimmer.

Yeah, I think the Cowboys were really rooting for New Orleans to win that game. Let me do a quick read for MyBooky.ag. Christmas is come and gone, but the Super Bowl is quickly approaching. seen just what, you know, teams are capable of this season. Now it's time to get in your last bets before the big game. The reigning champion Patriots have been knocked out. Who's going to step up in the AFC? Will the Ravens get it done? Chiefs, Texans, Titans, Titans, I like the Titans a little bit. Head over to MyBooky.ag to make those predictions that you have a reality. And I've talked about this many times. MyBooky.ag is reliable. They allow you to bet any way you want to

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about Kirk's big moment? You seemed hesitant to take a victory lap like you know what's coming next. Oh my God. And then he put three winking emojis next to it. It made me laugh out loud because on radio yesterday, I really was a little bit, of course, the people that can't stand Kirk think I'm insufferable talking about Kirk. The people that really like Kirk are like, God, you didn't go off enough. Like this was the moment, you know. But Zach was definitely perceptive because I felt this way yesterday. I was like, I felt like I do know what could be coming on Saturday. I was glad he played well, Tommy.

I was thrilled for him that his team won the game. the way they want it with him engineering, you know, an absolute fabulous drive in overtime. And I mentioned this yesterday, but, you know, a lot of people thought, oh, my God, and this is the false narrative, right, that's been about Kirk, his whole career. You know, it sort of manifested itself on Sunday with, that's the first time he's ever done that at the end of a game. No, it's actually his 14th career, fourth quarter, or overtime game-winning drive, 14, not his first. But anyway, Zach was right. I was happy for him. I recognized it to be his career moment to date,

but I was hesitant to gloat too much because I know that Saturday against the Niners, he could go out and play poorly against a really good team and a really good defensive team, or Tommy. He could play great, but his team loses the game, and he's right back to where he was before Sunday with people creating false narratives about his career saying he never plays well with the game on the line. He can't do this. He can't do that. Except now they'll have to say, except for that one time, remember in the playoffs against New Orleans. It won't be accurate, but it won't matter because his critics will take it and run with it. So yeah, I think that's what was in my mind yesterday because I know this argument that you've seen, you've followed all the people

that take me on on Kirk, all the people that are back me, and all the people that come at me, it's been a fun back and forth thing, but it's like one week they're right, the next week I'm right. So I've got to be careful. Yeah, and the thing is with the 49ers, not only are they very good, but with a great defense, they've got a coach who knows Kirk Cousins better than anybody. Yeah, no doubt.

Kyle Shanahan, knows his tendencies, knows everything about him, basically he did everything he could to get him in San Francisco. And so in Kyle Shanahan. So, you know, you've got to think that comes into play as well. Look, if Kirk does beat the 49ers, though, then you can rent Pennsylvania Avenue and lead the parade. No, it won't be. No.

No, no, no. No, you're wrong. You're wrong. If he plays well and wins Saturday against the 49ers, it's still not going to be good enough, Tommy. The goalposts will continue to move until they can't move anymore. And they can't move if he gets a team to a Super Bowl. That contract brought with it the expectation of Super Bowl, period. Whether it's fair or not, because he's not an elite quarterback, he's a good quarterback.

You know, most people who know, as he says, no. But his contract doesn't match, his contract doesn't say second weekend of the playoffs. It says Super Bowl, and if he gets there, then that'll be it. But if he doesn't, I think it'll always be, yeah, great. Second weekend of the playoffs is good enough for you. 49ers starting a first time ever quarterback in the playoffs. They'll come up with their own things. Tommy, here's what I've learned about this thing.

Anything he does short of a Super Bowl, it'll erase, you know, in the moment, you know, sort of these false narratives until the next game. until the next game, and then they're right back, and he's right back to being the stat-stuffing choker that all of his detractors think he is. Yeah. He played well Sunday, though, didn't he? Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

And I was happy for him. I'm not as big a believer as you are, but I do think he's a good quarterback. That's what I think. I would have him, I think if the Redskins had him on their team, team. They'd be better. I think people will look back on his years with the Redskins when Kirk is come and gone and say, wow, the Redskins really had a good quarterback then. Why weren't they better? If Dan Snyder had had an epiphany in 2013 or 14, and you had Kyle Shanahan and Kirk Cousins moving forward, the Redskins would have had some successful years the last few years.

There's just no doubt in my mind that that would have been true. But, you know, that's where, you know, you haven't had an owner with any sort of vision or any sort of talent for identifying talent. And he's wanted to be too involved, even if the last 10 years he's been less involved than he was his first 10 years. Kevin, you've got to give the owner a break. He's still trying to learn the calendar. Okay? So give him a break.

Come on. You know what I did think about the Happy Thanksgiving thing? You and I disagree on that. I don't think that it's an indication of his intelligence because he misspoke. Is just the notion that they have out there about how tough the Washington sports media is, you know, how the Redskins think that, and they've thought that for years. Can you imagine Happy Thanksgiving in New York, the Daily News, and the pictures with, you know, turkey feathers coming out,

of his, you know, the head. And I mean, seriously, he would have been annihilated for it in a real sports city. Really? Yeah. New York would have torched him. It would have been just unbelievable. That didn't happen here. It really didn't even come close to happen. It happened here. It happened in one place. It happened in one place? Yes. What do you mean? You're talking to that one place where it happened. Oh, yeah. It happened here. No, other people got after him to for it. Nobody got after him like I did. No, nobody called him stupid for doing it like you did.

I don't want to get into this again. I don't either. Like I said, there are people waiting for me at the pool. But if you're, again, let's do the interview. If you were interviewing somebody and they walked in in the interview and they told you happy Thanksgiving and never corrected it, you would say, who is this moron? and how quickly can I get him out of the room? I wouldn't say that.

My reaction would be, whoa, he misspoke or he's really nervous. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would. I would. This might be the biggest bullshit story you've ever told. I swear to God. I know you. No. No. Not at all. Tommy, I have been telling you for years that this guy's got an anxiety and a phobia over public speaking.

and it's why he hasn't been speaking and why he's become a recluse. And I think what we saw last week was an example of that. I think he was dreading going up there, dreading it. And one of the things that he kept saying, one voice, one coach, one voice, the whole thing, is because he doesn't want to have a voice in his own organization, not publicly. I think he was dreading it because he's embarrassed to be seen in public because he knows what people think of him.

I think that that has merit. I don't think it's an intelligence thing at all. I don't. You know what? Real quickly, because you know I can't get off Kirk and his jock. But if you are someone who believes, what Tom believes, what I believe, and what the majority of Redskinned fans or what's left of the fan base believes, and that is that these people have essentially ruined something that was so special for all of us, you should be rooting for cousins because, or Kyle, whichever one wins Saturday, you want them to go to the Super Bowl and win.

because the two people that they hated the most were Kyle Shanahan and Kirk Cousins. And Tommy, when he pulled that off Sunday, part of me was really happy for him, and part of me was like, those bastards who have run this franchise into the ground, and by the way, have done it in a very unintelligent way to speak to intelligence. I don't think they're bright running the organization, that's for sure. they hated to see that Tommy they were chasing people that anybody that would listen at Super Bowls over the years about how smart they were to get rid of Kirk and what a bad teammate he was and how you know how greedy he was the whole thing they're PR people their front office people and they do not want to see him do well because him doing well proves them once again wrong on the whole thing You've got to go, right? Yes, I do, boss.

Okay, enjoy the pool. See you. Okay, we'll talk on Thursday. We'll talk on Thursday. Thanks. Okay, bye. Tommy heading off to the pool. Lathered up, sunscreen, got his cigar, got his book in hand, flip-flops on. Picture him walking to the pool.

I'm picturing Stanley and Tallahassee, but on Tom. Yeah. Stanley and Tallahassee was quite a treat to look at. All right. There was one other thought coming out of that New Orleans, Minnesota game, that it has nothing to do with cousins, but has something to do with the other starting quarterback. And first of all, let me just say this.

I think the Saints handled it so much better Sunday than I thought maybe they would. And I don't know if we talked about this yesterday. I don't think we did. But last year was such a baby whining kind of response. to the miscall in the NFC championship game. And I know a lot of you, especially Saints fans, are going to say, imagine if it was your team. I'd probably behave in the same way.

But it wasn't my team. And the bottom line is that the league completely caved to Sean Peyton and Drew Brees and the New Orleans Saints for getting screwed out of a Super Bowl opportunity. And they created this rule that's just been stupid all year long. And hopefully they'll abolish it here in the offseason. But I thought that both Breeze and Peyton did a good job of not complaining. about the missed OPI call on Kyle Rudolph. It was definitely OPI.

It doesn't always get called, you know, maybe 50% of the time, 40% of the, whatever it is. But they didn't complain a lot about it. Now, you know, no lawsuits, no, you know, saying the fans are gathering and they're going to put together some sort of big suit against the league for screwing them again. None of that stuff is coming out in New Orleans today. Hopefully they learned their lesson a little bit because it really was, for the rest of NFL fans, it was like, God, shut up already. I mean, enough.

You lost a football game. A lot of people have lost in controversial fashion before. So I thought number one was just to acknowledge that I thought Peyton and Breeze handled it very well this time. On Breeze, though, you know, the NFL 100 quarterbacks list, Aaron, show with Belichick and Collinsworth, and on that particular show, they also had Brady and Farve and Stauback. I watched it over one of those days, you know, that during the holidays, I watched that show.

God, it was good on the quarterbacks. And, you know, it was, it was, they ended up naming 10 quarterbacks to the team. The show was so good. And the quarterback show, I ended up watching three or four of the shows. I saw the DB's show. I saw the running back show. That was great. Got more to watch.

but they named their all-time quarterbacks to the NFL 100 team, Montana, Brady, Unitas, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, John Elway, Peyton Manning, Roger Stawback, Brett Farve, and Dan Marino. All of my guys that I think are sort of the elites of all time. You know, my list basically top five is Brady, Elway, Manning, Marino, Montana. That would be sort of my top five. So all of those guys are on it. I don't know how Brett Farve ended up on the list as an aside.

Aaron Rogers should have been on that list before Brett Farve, in my opinion. Steve Young should have been on that list before Brett Farve, in my opinion. But whatever. Remember a couple of weeks back when we were having the conversation after Drew Breeze set the touchdown mark in the Monday night game against the Colts about, you know, a lot of people saying, is he to goat? And I said, no, he's not the goat. You know, Breeze is a really, really good player. Breeze is a lock hall of famer. He's not in the conversation with Brady Elway Manning, Marino, Montana.

He's much closer to 10 than 5, you know, and I don't have a problem with those of you that have them outside your top 10. You know, I've got him somewhere from 8 to 10, I think, somewhere in that range. You know, I made my list when we had this conversation. I don't know where it is right now and come up with it again. But my point is that Drew Breeze is in that next tier or two tiers down from the top. And one of the reasons is, you know, Drew Breeze on Sunday, I understand how old he is, and he can still play, and Brady can still play. But he wasn't very good on Sunday.

He wasn't even the second best quarterback on the field. The backup, Taysam Hill, was the second best quarterback on the field on Sunday. He was better than Breeze. You know, he was. Breeze is an all-time great. I don't want to knock him, and I don't want to look at just wins and losses. But do you know what his playoff record is? Because this always comes up with quarterback.

playoff records, came up with Manning for a lot of years, and I was all over the Manning thing, because I thought a lot of those games that Manning lost at home as a one seed were games where he messed up. Breeze is 8 and 8 all time in the playoffs. That's it, 8 and 8, and he has won one game on the road in the postseason. Once, he's got good playoff numbers. He does. But his teams have lost as many games as they have won, and they have been the Saints, a major playoff disappointment for a decade now. Since they won that Super Bowl in 2009, the Saints have underperformed in the postseason over the last 10 years.

It's not debatable. Taysom Hill played better than Breeze on Sunday. Kirk Cousins was obviously much better than Breeze on Sunday in Breeze's home stadium with Breeze's team favored by seven, seven and a half eight, wherever you got it. Drew Breeze, my point here is what I've always said about Breeze. He's great, but I think some overrate him. I think he's a little overrated by some. That's my opinion.

But a good job by him and Peyton to not bitch and complain. You know, Sean Payton, just as an aside, a guy who completely messed up that clock situation with the 10-second runoff. Should have taken the time out there. It was stupid not to. You know, he's been the coach of a team now that has lost five playoff games by six points or less in the last nine years. You know, there's your genius, Sean Payton.

eight and five playoff games by six points or less. That's a lot of close playoff games to lose. You know, when you start losing that many close playoff games, now you can say, oh, the call last year they were going to win that game in the NFC championship game. That's true. That is true. You can say, you know, Kyle Rudolph pushed off, should have won that game. Well, you don't know if they would have won it. They would have been down three had they called it. Although, actually, it would have been third down again. It would have been third down from the 14. They would have had another shot. Kirk probably would have checked it down for a five-yard game, and they would have kicked the field goal. But, you know, Sean Peyton's a good coach,

you know. He's not a Hall of Fame coach. He's not. Sean Peyton's not going to be a Hall of Fame coach. You have to have more playoff success, I think, than what Sean Payton's had. Sean Peyton is 8 and 7, actually. So Bree's played a play-to-play-off game without him. 8 and 7 as a playoff coach with 5 losses by 6 points or less than the last 9 years in the postseason. Do you think he's a Hall of Fame coach? I think he's borderline. I'm not saying it's definitive that he isn't, but it's borderline. His record is 131 and 77 as a head coach.

He's got a 630 winning percentage. He's definitely not a Hall of Fame coach right now. I don't think he is. You know, he's still relatively young compared to some NFL games. How old is Sean Payton? He's 56 right now. So when I say relatively young, he's Ron Rivera's age. So he still has time to add to it.

But no, if he doesn't win another Super Bowl, he's nowhere near a Hall of Fame coach. I was, I had a run, not a run in. I ran into Sean Payton once. It was at a Super Bowl down in South Florida. Tommy and I had a great time at this particular Super Bowl. I think it was this one. It may have been a different one. And one of the nights that week, I met Scott.

and a couple of people, we went out to dinner, and Sean Payton, I went into the men's room, and Sean Peyton was sitting there, and I said, hey, coach, how are you doing? He said, hey, how are you doing? Who are you? And I introduced myself, and we had, like, as we're sitting there in front of the urinals, we had like a two-minute conversation, you know, as we went to the, to wash up, but he couldn't have been a nicer guy. I remember thinking to myself, maybe he's, you know, had a few pops, probably, but couldn't have been nicer in that moment. And I remember somebody telling me he's one of these guys that is real engaging and always curious about you and always asking about you. I like people like that.

I need to be more like that. All right. You said there's more breaking news as we're sitting here doing this podcast? Not breaking news, just little details here and there coming out. First of all, it looks like Matt Rule is getting seven years, $60 million from the Panthers. What? Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Over $8 million a year for Matt Rule? Yes. Where would that put him? I mean, Gruden's won right now, right? Belichick, does Belichick make $8 million a year? I got to look up the coaching salaries here. That's unbelievable.

Do you have a list of the coaching salaries? Yeah, I mean, this, I'm not sure how much this includes bonuses, that sort of thing, but it does have Belichick as the highest paid at 12.5. It has Pete Carroll at number two at 11, has John Gruden at 10, and then Sean Payton, 9 million. So this would put Matt Ruhl as the fifth highest paid coach in the NFL. God, I didn't realize Belichick made that much money. I thought John Gruden was the highest paid coach in the league.

Interesting. I mean, John Gruden had the highest contract, the 10 years, 10 million a year, the 100 million. Didn't Matt Ruhle say last week he was going to stay at Baylor? I'm not holding him to that. You know, they all say that. when it looks like they might not be a lock for an NFL job. He did such a great job at Baylor.

He did a really good job at Temple when he was there. Some of his Temple teams were really pretty decent. There's another thing to add to it, and it goes back to what we started with, the Jason Garrett news. Apparently there is truth to the Giants wanting to talk to Jason Garrett as an offensive coordinator. Yeah, that's why I said initially as a head coach. So Joe Judge, who's the special teams guy, wide receivers coach in New England, may be looking for an OC and a DC. So I still don't know if that would make people happy to see Jason Garrett as an offensive coordinator.

Probably not. It might not make Jerry Jones happy either because Jerry Jones really seriously likes Jason Garrett. All right. Last thing, and we'll get out of here for the day. Maryland plays Ohio State tonight, Aaron. I'm going to the game. Are you going to the game or not? It's a 7 o'clock game.

I won't be able to get there. time. You've got to work. So I was listening to Turgeon last night in his press conference after practice previewing the Ohio State game. And he was talking about Caleb Wesson, the 6-9-275-pound power forward, who really is a good player. He's been, he's one of these guys that you can't miss him.

He's that big, you know, he's lost weight according to, I've watched him a little bit this year, but Turgeon was saying that he's really slimmed down and he's quicker and more Mobile. He's one of these guys that I think, you know, is being projected late first round, maybe second round. He's a junior right now. But he said, as he was talking about Caleb Wesson, he said, Caleb Wesson gives Ohio State a chance to win the national championship. And I think he's right about that. Ohio State struggles to score. They're really good defensively. But that dude is a difference maker. Now, he's not a guard. You know, he's not shooting threes, although he can stretch the floor. As a 6-9, 270-pound guy, you'll see it tonight.

If you're watching, he can shoot the three, definitely. But he is one of those guys that I think, you know, Ohio State, decent talent around him, too, could ride to, you know, a deep run in March. For Maryland, real quickly, TURP fans that are listening, I think these are games you have to have. And tonight's going to be a tough one because Ohio State's lost two games in a row. They're going to be in here desperate to stop their losing skid. they lost to West Virginia and then they lost to Wisconsin.

After beating Kentucky, they've also beaten Villanova this year, beaten North Carolina. That's not saying much of this year. North Carolina is really struggling. But you got to win these games at home in a Big Ten season that's 20 games. You're playing 20 in the Big Ten this year. You need to finish in the top two or three in the Big Ten. Because what you don't want to get yourself into,

into come March is when the brackets revealed, you got a five next to your name or a four next to your name. You got to have a two next to your name. No worse than a three next to your name this year. You got enough talent to be that. And the regular season's really important. That's why last year I was really upset when they sold that game or moved that game with Illinois to the garden and they ended up losing it.

Like that could have been the difference in a seed line. You know, and matchups are everything. And you can get a bad matchup as a. a two seed against a seven. It could be the wrong type of team for you. But more likely than not, you know, if you're a one or a two seed, you got a pretty good chance to make to the Sweet 16th. And that's where he's got to be. And that's where Maryland's got to be this year. And the non-conference schedule they played and the way they played it definitely made it. So these games are even more important. Do you know where their non-conference? Do you know where

their schedule ranks right now? I don't know. It's top 10 in the country, strength of schedule, I believe. It's strength of schedule, yes. But when it comes down to those, you know, the quad one wins, the great wins, they don't have, I guess the Marquette win, I think, is going to end up being quad one because that was on a neutral floor. But they lost, you know, at Seton Hall. And while it wasn't non-conference, they lost at Penn State, which would have been a chance to get it. They're running at, basically, they're running out of chances to get really good wins on the schedule. They'll have plenty of chance. You know, they play Ohio State twice. Iwas right now a pretty good team, Michigan, of course, and Michigan State. But you need to get these chances for

big wins because you didn't other than Marquette get a big win in the non-conference. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'm right about the schedule strength that I just said. I was taking their word for it because somebody out there told me that they had a top 10 strength of schedule and maybe they did and maybe they don't know. I think it's, you know what it is? I think they were extrapolating the full schedule and as of now it looks like they will have the number eight schedule in the country. Their non-conference schedule was 50th, which is still pretty.

decent but didn't have that big, you know, marquee win you want. Yeah, I mean, you would really like, you know, teams like Temple and Marquette to do really well, Temple in their league and their decent team, Marquette and their league. And even Notre Dame, who lost a bunch of players, but they actually won the other day. I think at Syracuse, they won a couple of games in a row Notre Dame to do a little bit better in the ACC because Maryland destroyed them. But, yeah, I mean, you're now into the, you're now into this Big Ten stretch. You know, you beat Indiana on Saturday.

It was a good win. You've got Ohio State tonight, and you've got to go to Iowa on Friday night before going to Wisconsin next week. It is not easy. The Big Ten's deep. It's not, I don't know if it has a national championship team, although Michigan State's starting to round into form. I think Ohio State's very talented. I think Maryland's talented. It's one of those things, Aaron, where right now, like a game like tonight may be one of those games that is the difference at the end of the year of finishing 16 and

four or 15 and 5 in the league versus 13 and 7 or 14 and 6 somewhere in there. And that's the difference between potentially being a two or a three seed versus a four or a five seed. This is one you got to get. And it's not going to be easy. Maryland's a two and a half point favorite tonight. But Ohio State, as I mentioned, they've lost two in a row. They lost a Huggins in West Virginia on a neutral floor. I love that Huggins team this year. I know Maryland fans hate everything about West Virginia. I love Huggins as a coach. I love their style of play. I love those teams that get after you with three-star guys defensively. He presses still, plays that one-three-one. I like that team this year, Huggins team. And they beat Ohio State neutral four

a week and a half ago. But I don't know. I'm hopeful about tonight. I think Wesson's going to be a load for sticks to match up against. You talk about two of the better bigs in the league, but totally different types of bigs. You know, sticks is a definite, you know, force as a rim protector is a shot blocker, but not necessarily anything else. He doesn't have a great low post game. I'd like to see him keep, you know, picking and popping out front with Cow. And I love that little pick and pop. They've got sticks can shoot it.

Man, he should have the green light to shoot it every time he's open there. Do you think they win tonight? No, but that's just my Maryland kind of defeatist fan in me. I am, I'm surprised by how much they're favored by, I'll be honest. Really? I thought it might be a little bit more at home. The models actually I think have Ohio State as the favorite. So that's a little interesting to me.

Ken Palm's got Ohio State. Yeah, based on the Ken Palm numbers, this game should actually be a pickum with Maryland at home. Yeah. And Marilyn's favorite by two and a half. I actually was expecting a three, three and a half and sought at two went up to two and a half. I don't know. They're at home tonight. The crowd's going to be a problem tonight.

Seven o'clock start in snow. That's a bad combination. and hopefully the students get there and they get there early. Because Maryland was pretty good over the weekend. I heard the Indiana crowd was excellent. You know, for the students not being there, they're not back in school. Maryland's got a very long winter break. They had that when I was there.

They had a really good crowd out there. I would expect a decent crowd, but again, the traffic with the snow this afternoon is going to be a mother. You know what? Luckily, everybody's getting off early, so hopefully traffic shouldn't be too bad schools and federal government getting out early. That's good news. Send everybody home. All right. Thanks to Tommy for calling in.

Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to all of you back tomorrow.