The Kevin Sheehan Show - Case Keenum and Cooley

Episode Date: March 8, 2019

Kevin opens up the show with his thoughts on the Case Keenum trade. Cooley joins in with his thoughts on the deal as well. Then Cooley and Kevin go through their ideas on what the Skins may do in free agency starting next week. Andy Pollin joins the show to discuss Keenum, Steve Buckhantz, and the anniversary of the famous 1974 Maryland-NC State game. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right. I am here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Cooley's going to call in here shortly. Andy a little bit later on. And we will do some other things that aren't Case Keenham related, including a free agency. plan that I had worked on this week. And by the time we get in here Monday, it's very possible that there will already be news about free agent commitments and signings that will take place at the beginning of free agency,

which is Wednesday, but the negotiating quiet period or whatever they call it actually begins on Monday. Well, we're here today and getting the podcast out a little bit earlier than normal because of the news that broke yesterday after. that Case Keenham had been traded to the Redskins. I don't think anybody had Case Keenham. If you did, congratulations. Aaron, I'll be totally honest with you. I was prepared or almost completely prepared to come in here this morning and say that the Redskins had had conversations

with both Ryan Fitzpatrick and Teddy Bridgewater and were choosing between which of the two paths they would go down, that it was going to be Fitzpatrick or Bridgewater. I was waiting for one other call, and I hadn't gotten it yet, but I was pretty close to having, you know, every once in a while, every once in a blue moon, I'll have something, some news, and I was pretty close to saying the Redskins are going to sign when free agency begins, either Ryan Fitzpatrick or Teddy Bridgewater. I'm glad that the Keenham news broke yesterday, so I don't look like a fool. after the fact. But I actually do think that they've talked to just about everybody with respect to trying to solve this quarterback situation that they are in.

But the Keenham thing happened. And just to recap what happened, I'm sure most of you know, the Redskins and Broncos agreed on a trade. The skins are going to send their sixth round pick to Denver for Case Keenham and Denver's seventh round pick. The contract and cap number for Redskins is one year, three and a half million dollars. Denver owed him seven million and guaranteed for 2019. They restructured his deal and they just split it with the skins to get the deal done. Denver wanted him gone, you know, after trading for Joe Flacco. There's not much of a market and there wasn't much of a market for Case Keenham in the contract that he had, which is why they essentially gave him away for nothing and had to eat half of his,

guaranteed contract in the process to get the deal done. My big macro takeaway on this is I don't love the player, but I don't hate the deal. Case Keenham for $3.5 million, given the current situation the Redskins have at quarterback, isn't that bad of a deal. And if you're really, really upset about it, you shouldn't be, because this is an insurance policy. It's nothing more, nothing less. Let me get into more detail because I have, I don't know, eight, nine, ten thoughts on this. So I'll just ramble through them.

Point number one, or thought number one, is that I'm not excited about the player. I think he is an NFL starter, but just barely an NFL starter. The team around him has to be exceptional. I don't think he's that much better than Colt McCoy, but McCoy can't play without getting hurt, as we know. As an aside, even though Alex Smith wasn't great last year, Alex Smith healthy has been and is a better quarterback than Case Keenham. So for those of you that tweeted to me yesterday or last night saying, why didn't they just do this last year? They'd have Kendall Fuller. They'd have a third round pick. They wouldn't have this huge contract number. Well, the answer is really simple. They thought last year, and I think justifiably so, that Alex

Smith's a better quarterback than Case Keenham. Thought number two, I do not think that this trade means the Redskins are done at quarterback. I don't at all. In fact, it's truly at $3.5 million dollars in insurance policy. I don't think he was dealt for, you know, this trade happened because they want him to be the starter. Now, he may end up being the starter, but I don't think they traded for Case Keenum thinking definitively he's our starter in 2000. I think he was dealt for to compete for a starting job with Colt McCoy and perhaps a third quarterback. I think they looked at him as insurance for Colt if Colt won the job and got hurt or it didn't work out and Colt wasn't playing well. Or because God forbid they get in that situation they were in this year and have to call Mark Sanchez.

And clearly they think Case Keenham is better than Josh Johnson and I probably would agree with that. But they looked at him as insurance for Colt if Colt ends up winning the job or if and when Colt gets hurt or if they weren't able to get the young quarterback they want and I still expect them to either draft a quarterback early early meaning the first two rounds if they really like somebody

or I think the trade for Josh Rosen is still in play if they are interested in Rosen and they can get them for something other than number 15 overall. Rosen or a rookie in the draft, to me, still very much in play. The Keenham deal didn't eliminate that as a possibility. This is sort of my option for Aaron with Tommy the other day where I said veteran quarterback and you draft somebody.

Now, I didn't know that the veteran quarterback would be Case Keenum and come via trade, but really, for all intents and purposes, it's not really, a trade. You swapped a sixth and a seventh and you're paying him three and a half million bucks. It's not, you didn't really give up anything in compensation and you're paying him what you'd really probably end up paying someone like Josh McCown or or Brock Osweiler. Right. You know, you wouldn't be able to get Ryan Fitzpatrick for three and a half million bucks. You wouldn't be able to get Teddy Bridgewater for three and a half million bucks. So it's not really my option for actually. It's less than the option for. The other day,

you missed it, we had like five options on quarterback things. And option four, for me, that's the way I thought they'd go, was a Ryan Fitzpatrick, and then they would also draft somebody or potentially still trade for a Rosen, but more likely than not draft somebody. So the net of this particular, you know, point that I'm making is the trade for Case Keenum does not mean the Redskins are done at quarterback. Now, you've got to look at their salary cap. The Redskins now have $20.4 million into Alex Smith in 2019. Colt McCoy right now is going to count $3.4 million next year. Case Keenham is going to count,

will count $3.5 million. So Smith 20.4, McCoy, 3.4, and Case Keenham, 3.5. So right now, they've got $27.3 million in three quarterbacks counting against their 2,000. The salary cap in 2019 went up. It's going to be $188.2 million. So their quarterbacks right now account for 14.5% of their cap. Just so you know, if the skins traded for Josh Rosen, he would count for $1.2 million against next year's cap. That's it. 1.2 million. A rookie in the first or second round isn't going to be much more than that. Also as another FYI, and I tweeted this out yesterday, because I think this could be interesting as you're going forward. Like if they were to trade for Rosen or if they got a quarterback in the first round or Daniel Jones later in the first round trading back, you know, if they're not, if they're done with Colt McCoy, which I know Jay Gruden is, he's not done with Colt McCoy. But Colt McCoy, you know, would save money for them against their cap if they released him. pre-June 1 and I think post-June 1 as well.

I think they'd save about 1.3 million by cutting McCoy. So let's say that they ended up trading for Rosen and they also have Case Keenham. At that point, they may actually think about releasing McCoy, but I don't think Jay wants that. I think Jay wants McCoy to compete for the job. But it's not impossible. Let me just mention that.

It's not impossible that we could get to some point in the spring or early summer, and McCoy could be released. Now, the next point, while I don't think this move was the last move at quarterback, and I don't, and I think that's really important, and I think most of you figured this out. A lot of you didn't figure this out early on, but I think most of you figured out once you saw the $3.5 million number on Keenham, that the Redskins, more likely than not, are not done at quarterback. Now, they may not have a choice, meaning the Cardinals may not trade Rosen or the Redskins. Redskins aren't willing to give up enough to get Rosen or the quarterback they want in the draft.

They can't get because he's gone or they'd have to trade up to get him. So it's still possible that they won't add another quarterback because, but I think their choice will be to try to add another quarterback. But the one thing now that is completely off the table is Ryan Fitzpatrick and Teddy Bridgewater. Those two are no longer an option. Case Keenham is the veteran starter or backup for Colt McCoy. that they have decided on. More likely than not, the reason for it is because he is cheap.

Next point. The Broncos did well to lower their cap hit associated with trading him. They did. But the Redskins did what they've done best during the Bruce Allen era. They got a good deal on an average player. It's Bruce's specialty. He's the king of nickel and diming the seller, you know, and getting a solid price only to find out he gets into the house and realizes,

ah, the bedrooms were a little bit smaller than I thought, and the bathrooms and kitchen needed much more updating than I thought when I came up with this great price. He is the best at negotiating good contracts for average to sub-average players. At least as of now, Bruce hasn't extended Keenham's contract, and I don't think he will. I mean, I'm mentioning that because they did with Alex Smith. They're not going to extend Keenham's contract. And let's just all agree that if they did pursue an extended contract for Keenham that will all vomit together in unison, they're not going to do that.

Somebody mentioned that to me. They're not going to give Case Keenum an extended contract. This is a one-year, $3.5 million insurance policy. He may win the job, but worst case, he's going to back up Colt or maybe back up a rookie or a second-year player like Rosen. Trading for Keenham to me is another sign that Jay's decision-making ability on his quarterbacks is at best a shared process. At worst, his influence is minimal. trading for Alex Smith wasn't his idea, it wasn't his call, and I'd bet that trading for Case Keenham wasn't his idea or call either. I don't think he had a problem with it. Jay is go along to get along.

The big difference, of course, is that they traded for Smith to be Jay's starter, not just last year, but for several years to come. They traded for Case Keenham to be one of the two or three quarterbacks that could potentially start in 2019. I would guess that he, in his typical way of being non-confrontational and not offering up much resistance, really didn't put up much resistance to this. Why would he? Give me Case Keene. Another guy that can give Colt some competition in camp or a rookie quarterback that he can compete with.

If they don't or aren't able to make another meaningful move at quarterback, again, it may not be within their control. They may not be able to trade for Josh Rosen. The price may be too high. The Cardinals may not want to trade them. Or the quarterback that they really like in the draft, they may have to trade up too far to get them and it's too expensive or they can't even pull off the trade.

But if they're not able to make another meaningful move at quarterback, a Case Keenham-Kolt-McCoy training camp battle isn't going to excite anyone, most notably the owner. I don't believe that Bruce sold Case Keenham to Dan Snyder as the 2019 starter. I mean, I'm coming back to the same thing that I think this deal is an insurance policy. Case Keenham wasn't sold to Dan Snyder as, hey, woo! We can get Case Keenham for $3.5 million to be our starter next year.

And Dan, see, they celebrated. Maybe they went to the Bahamas last night. That didn't happen. This is not a major celebration trade. I can't believe that that is what's going on in Ashburn. Nothing would surprise me, but it's a three and a half million dollar deal for a guy who has started in the league for the last two years, had some success in Minnesota with a great defense and a much better offensive line with a much better offensive line coach, Tony Sparano, who tragically passed away last year before the season began. But this is not going to thrill anybody in marketing, in ticket sales. Case Keenham's not going to sell one ticket. Dan Snyder, I think, knows that.

That's one of the reasons I think big moves are still to come. I still think Dan wants action. Whether it's a quarterback or whether it's somewhere else, he still wants the action. You know, if they were able to pull off a deal for Antonio Brown, and how about the way that played out last night? Ian Rappaport reporting that a deal was done with Buffalo, and then Schepter pulling back on that. And who knows?

I mean, Brown apparently doesn't want to play in Buffalo and nicks that deal. Shocker. Now, Diana Rusini, I believe it was Diana Rusini, who tweeted out that the Redskins are out on Antonio Brown. Yeah, I believe. I can't remember who was one of the other national reported that Redskins, along with a couple other teams, had backed out. I don't believe that they're totally out on Antonio Brown. Now, the only reason they would be out is if Antonio Brown told the Redskins the same thing he'd, told the bills, which is I don't want to play for them.

All right. And I'm not going to sign a deal. I'm not going to report and I'm going to be a pain in the ass. And you know what? It's possible that he said that about the Redskins. There may be a few teams that he's willing to get traded to. It's amazing. He's under contract and he's dictating trade terms with his team. If I were at Pittsburgh, I would really, I've said this since the jump. They should be doing their best to try to keep him on that roster. Well, what leverage does he have? Well, the leverage of holding out, I guess. That's fine, but this isn't the Levian Bell situation where, like, he gets fined if he doesn't.

He's under contract. Right. But apparently, according to reports, if you can believe him, because right now, no one had Keenum, nobody had Antonio Brown to Buffalo. And then, as it turns out, it's because Antonio Brown wasn't going to Buffalo. But Ian Rappaport thought he was going to Buffalo. But Antonio Brown, if you believe the latest reporting, is he doesn't want to go to Buffalo. But I would guess that the Redskins, if the price got to a level that they could deal with, I still think that Antonio Brown is exactly what Dan Snyder would want.

He needs, look, he's going to need something to divert everyone's attention away from what will be at this point, an uninspiring quarterback training camp battle. No one's getting excited about Keenham and McCoy. That's why I'm convinced that they are going to try still to either trade for Rosen or draft a quarterback early. Early meaning the first two rounds. But anyway, last thing on this too is that a lot of you had suggested on Twitter to me, and maybe it's because this was reported, and if it was, I don't know who reported it, so I'm sorry. but suggested that this was the first step towards a bigger trade for Josh Rosen,

that somehow the Redskins were then going to use Case Keenum as packaged with a pick to Arizona for Josh Rosen. I may be missing something here, and I said this on Twitter. Most of you agreed with me. I don't understand why the Cardinals, if they wanted Case Keenum, wouldn't just go to Denver and deal with Denver. to get Case Keenham. There's nothing about that that makes sense that the Redskins would trade for Case Keenham and then use it as a chip to get Josh Rosen. I mean, he might end up being in the trade potentially, but it wouldn't be a, like you say, it wouldn't be a chip. I don't, yeah, I mean, the reason people think this is because there's a relationship between Kingsbury and Case Keenham

when Case Keenham was the quarterback at the University of Houston. But I do, okay, so why wouldn't Kingsbury just called Denver up and say, oh, the skins are offering a sixth and a sixth. We'll give you a fifth, and we'll swap that with your seventh. I mean, if they really wanted Keenham, but why would the Cardinals really want Keenham? Keenham isn't a quarterback that's going to back up Kyler Murray. He'd be a backup to Josh Rosen, but they could have just gotten him directly with Denver. So, again, I could be missing something there, but I'm not, I don't think I am. Anyway, look, the net of it is, you know, again, my takeaway on this in one sentence is, I don't love the player, but I don't hate the deal.

It really is truly what Bruce Allen does better than anybody else in the history of this organization under Dan Snyder. He gets average players for good contracts. He's able to figure out a way to maneuver, to negotiate, to get a really good contract value on a really average to subpar player. It's what he's made a living doing here in Washington. And we know that this doesn't work, and we know the way that Vinny and Dan did it together for 10 years doesn't work. But I'm not excited about Case Keenham as the starting quarterback. If he beats out Colt McCoy and those are the two vying for it and there's not a third quarterback that has a chance.

I mean, there's a chance they could draft a Daniel Jones at the end of the first. You know, they trade back. They get Daniel Jones. But Daniel Jones isn't ready to be the starting quarterback in 2019. He's the developmental. He's the quarterback for 2020, 2021. That's possible. But the Redskins, I still think, have another move. I think there's another move to be made.

I don't think the Josh Rosen thing is dead, and I certainly don't think drafting a quarterback early is off the table. And again, they've got 14 and a half percent of their cap right now taken up by three quarterbacks. If they added a fourth, you know, remember, they would have four potentially McCoy, Keenham, and a young quarterback. The fourth is Alex Smith in his contract. And I think that, you know, the one-year move for Case Keenum, you know, if he were to beat out McCoy, may also indicate that for, I mean, I think at this point, it's definite, Alex Smith is not going to be quarterbacking the Redskins in 2019. And if they draft a young person, it's even further confirmation that he's probably never going to quarterback the Redskins again. Okay, that's it. Keenham,

McCoy, and we're still going to be talking about Rosen, and we're still going to be talking about the draft and the possibility that the Redskins draft the quarter of the course. quarterback high in the first or second round to me is, you know, you draft a quarterback in the first or second round, especially where the skins are picking in the second round, you are drafting the quarterback you think can potentially start sooner or later, but you expect that quarterback to eventually start. When you start taking a quarterback in the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh rounds, you're talking about truly a developmental quarterback that you hope can develop into a starter one day, but that's not why you're, you don't anticipate.

that or you're not counting on that. Let me say it that way. You're not counting on that. You draft somebody in the first or second round. You are counting on that person becoming your starter at some point. We'll bring in Cooley here in a moment, but first let me tell you about Wind Donation. Wind Donation, they actually listen to this podcast like many of you do, which is very nice. I'm a big fan of Windonation. Harley's a good friend of mine. Harley and Aaron are two of the best entrepreneurs I have ever met. Eric, who's a big part of that company, listens to the podcast every day. He's a huge sports fan in the market. And I have had Window Nation install windows in my home twice over the last decade. So I'd ask you to give them a shot as well. Why now in

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Get two free windows for every two you buy by four. Get four free. No limit. Nothing down, no payments, and no interest for one full year. 86690 Nation or windonation.com and tell them that I sent you. All right, let's bring in Cooley. And you and I talked a little bit about the trade last night when it happened. I actually thought late yesterday that there was a chance that they were in the midst of going after either Fitzpatrick or Bridgewater. I'm glad I didn't go with that on the show this morning. I don't know if you had heard anything about that, but I think they did talk to both Fitzpatrick and Bridgewater's agents, but they pulled the trigger on Case Keenham. Go ahead, give me your reaction to the deal.

I've already done 20 minutes on it. well before you get into what I did or didn't know just I'll remind everybody that every single time there's some form of breaking news I'm informed of that news by you yes yeah you have never you are not at source for any of it well no I mean I got a call from you yesterday and you're like what do you think is Kay Skeekeenum like oh Redskins must have got Kaye McKee's you didn't even know you really are I was at look I was at the park a day yesterday and obviously there's there's this sense of when people are working and when people are, when people are trained to wheeling deal, you get some excitement in the park, and I don't go and ask. I don't care. I mean, I'm spending the next three months installing an offense that I'm going to put together on film. That's what I'm doing. I don't care about the breaking news. I care, but I don't care about having their understanding at first. Who are you installing an offense for?

The Redskin, I'm going to install it for the fans. Oh, you're going to install it for the fans. I love it. Yeah, like a coach would teach the players, the offense. It's not any kind of proprietary information. I'm going to start with all the formations, motions, and looks. We'll start getting into plays and get to

two, three minute videos of here's two slants on this side and the slant to flat on this side. Okay, this is how we're coaching it. This is what we're seeing. And then you can put a play on tape and you can say, this is how the play played out. And this is exactly how we coached it and why we're doing it this way. And so that's kind of my next three-month project.

over there at the park because I want to be as far from breaking news as possible. Right. As I work out of Redskinsport. Totally useful for you to be doing it for a podcast instead of for an actual team, but that's a discussion for another day. Let's get to Case Keenham. Okay. So you gave your take on Keenum, as I understand.

My thought is this. You got a guy that is not the end of your quarterback chase in the, this season. It could be the end because there's a guy, there's at least a one and two quarterback that you believe in going to the season with, but you now do not have to sweat bullets as you try to acquire a Rosen in a trade or another free agent, but probably after the draft or you don't have to get to number 15 in the draft and say, we don't have another guy, so we have to take Daniel Jones, we're going to miss on a starter. We see Daniel Jones as the 25th pick in the draft, but what else are we going to do? We have to have

a guy. And so I love it. I mean, you get a guy that Denver is going to eat all of the money on. It's going to cost you $3.5 million. He's there for a year. You lose a sixth for a seventh, which is essentially nothing at that point in the draft. It's like five points on the draft board. So no big deal whatsoever there. And I think it gives you a ton of breathing room. But to me, it doesn't mean that you're out on Rosen right now. It actually, if you focus just on the Rosen thing. I think it potentially can give you, I wouldn't call it leverage, but you can go back and say, look, Arizona, no, we're not giving you your one. The one, we're fine. We're fine here. So you're not going to, we're not going to compete against ourselves because we don't have the

position. We'll compete fairly against whoever else is in there. So if it was a two and a six or two and a five or whatever it was, or if it was two threes, then you're fine with competing against to everybody else. They don't hold that extra wildcard saying, we know you need this. We know you have to do this. So you're fine with Keenham in that instance, and then you're fine in the draft,

and so you can get to 15, and let's say you love Daniel Jones. Maybe you trade that pickback, and you get something else, and you go back to 23, 24, 25. So I think that gives you a lot of leeway in the draft. It also gives you really potential to say, we're just going to take the guy that we like at 15, who's a starter, and we're going to do a good job drafting him, and he should be a franchise player, because your 15th pick should be a franchise player, should be a guy that is probably a Pro Bowl player,

plays into a second deal at minimum for your organization, and we'll see what quarterbacks might be available in the second round. Maybe Ryan Finley falls to 46 in the second round, so you're comfortable doing it in that fashion. So I think it's a tremendous deal. I also don't think it means that Case Keenum is your starter going into next year. I think that there's viable competition, which is what Jay said he wanted. Look, we want competition at the quarterback spot, and it'll go into camp, and I think Colt still would have a leg up to have that job over King. So I don't think it means a whole heck of a lot other than if you're in the Redskins organization right now, you go, okay, we can survive if Colt gets hurt. Right. We don't need to trot out, you know, Mark Sanchez or Josh Johnson. It sounds like

we agree on every single part of this thing. I want to make one thing clear for those that are listening when Cooley talked about the leverage with respect to Arizona and Rosen, he's not talking about, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I made this point earlier. There were a lot of people that tweeted me that said, oh, Sheehan, this is just the first part of a chip with a trade with Arizona. Keenham's going to be part of a deal that would go to Arizona for Rosen. And I just said, well, that makes no sense at all. If Arizona wanted Keenum, they would have just gone right to Denver. Why would they do it that way? But what you're saying is different. You're saying that the Redskins have a little bit more leverage if they're trying to go after Rosen in that they

don't look to be desperate, that they have somebody there in addition to Colt McCoy that they can live with. No, and in saying that, that was an initial thought of mine is maybe that could be part of a deal, but think of it in this way. It's like, let's just say you're going to get Kyler Murray in Arizona with your number one, number one, and trade Rosen. What if just on a whim, Steve Kime, their GM and anybody there, Kingsbury, a Texas guy, said, you know, the perfect player to help Kyler Murray out is, Colton Coy. We'd love that. That actually is intriguing as one of the better backups in the league and one of the better teaching backups in the league to say,

this would be a perfect guy. He's been comfortable behind Robert, behind Kirk. He's worked with a lot of this. He worked in San Francisco and Roman in this style. offense when they were running a lot of the red option with Colin Kaepernick. If I was Arizona, I would actually be really intrigued in Colt McCoy if that were part of a trade. Interesting. I, you know, Colt McCoy, right now until they solve, until they continue to solve this problem with, and I agree with you, with either a trade for Rosen or a quarterback early in the draft,

whether it be first round, late first round for Daniel Jones, if they could trade back, or the second round for a guy like Ryan Finley, et cetera. They, um, Colt McCoy's here, but it is possible, you know, they would save $1.3 million dollars by releasing McCoy. Um, by trading McCoy, uh, yeah, I guess they, there would be a similar savings, uh, as, as well. So, you're just on the base portion of his deal, but you're not, you're not trying to trade or release McCoy for $1.5 million. You're not, no, but if they, if they traded for Rosen, who would account for one point, right now, right? now, the math that I did, it could be wrong, but 20.4 million for Smith, 3.4 million for Colt, 3.5

for Case Keenham. So 27.3 million in three quarterbacks. It accounts for 14 and a half percent of the cap right now. Now, if they traded for Rosen, Rosen's only 1.2 million on next year's cap, if he were traded here. A rookie quarterback, similar number. So you could add Rosen without cutting McCoy. But I'm just saying, let's just say they added Rosen. and in mini-camp, he blew everybody away and everybody realized Rosen was the starter. You could potentially release McCoy. You could release McCoy. You could also make it into camp with all three of them

and have something catastrophic to happen to some other team and have a lot more value in a guy like Keenum as you get into, let's call it, mid-August, or McCoy at that point. But you can't trade Keenum at this point because then you're going to take the full three and a half million cap hit. I mean, you wouldn't want to. I'd do that at this point. It just depends on, yeah, no, you wouldn't want to do that. No, I'm with you entirely, but it just depends on where you're at. I mean, let's say, Kirk Cousins got hurt in

Minnesota mid-August, and Zimmer went, we'll give you a third for a guy that we know we can win with. Right. You would do it for that for $3.5 million. All right, tell us your opinion on Case Keenham, the quarterback, and then extend it out to, let's just say it comes down to, And I think you and I both think there will be a third quarterback involved. But if it came down to Keenham or McCoy, you know, your first gut instinct on who would win that training camp battle. So I thought about when Keenham, one, I think Jay's involved based on the timing and how it plays out. You know, he's right now scouting all the free agents. That's what the coaching staff has been involved in, its free agency and all the potential guys that they could have.

And this quarterback issue has been an issue. So I think Jay's been looking at him. I think everyone's probably in agreement. I would bet you that Jay went and spent a lot of time or talked to Zimmer quite a bit and what Keenham was in Minnesota, which was a very good player. It was also a guy that had Stefan Diggs and Adam Thielen or Theline like Jay likes to call him and Kyle Rudolph and a pretty good running game in that year that he was there. So you get a sense of what he can do with some talent around him.

I thought he made some unbelievable throws in Minnesota that year and challenged defenses of tons. I like that he's got some guts. I look at a guy that's had to play in about four different offenses in four years, and I got to remember I said this about Tyrod Taylor. I said this about all quarterbacks that have been other places, and there's a reason that they've been to three or four other teams. Right. There just is.

I haven't spent very much time watching what he did in Denver last year. Um, I, I, I, I, I, I, that'll be obviously my project today is to see what his year in Denver was compared to some of his year in Minnesota last year. And I'll be interested in that. But, um, I think he's a guy that can make some plays. I think he's a guy that can take that, obviously, you've seen take a bunch of risks that maybe you don't necessarily want a guy to take some of those risks. He's a little undersized, but man, we watched him play a bunch in Minnesota. He's got some, some stuff to him in the pocket. He's got some.

charisma to him as a player. I think he's got some leadership. I like him. I don't think he's your answer long term. I mean, Elway did last year. Is he better than Colt McCoy, a healthy Colt McCoy if McCoy stayed healthy? What's amazing? I think they're really comparable. And I would bet you to answer the second part of your question that Colt will have the leg up in training camp in terms of winning that job because Keenham's deal doesn't dictate that you have to play him and Colt's been a part of this offense and this system forever and everybody knows how his relationship with Jay has grown and what Jay thinks of him and what team thinks of him. I think Colts still got the opportunity to start.

And it's actually interesting as I think of it, you know, not having to pay him a bunch of money if Jay's involved is a great way for Jay to say, I can still give my guy an opportunity. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, the $3.5 million, you know, basically dictated the reaction to the deal. You realize that once they split that $7 million with Denver, and Bruce is the master, as I've said many times, at negotiating great deals for average players, that this was not your starter, you know, this wasn't your default starter. This was a training camp battle with Colt McCoy, and, potentially still a Josh Rosen or a young first or second round quarterback. And it's, by the way, you know, a bigger picture look at this from the owner's standpoint. I have felt, and I don't know how much you and I have talked about this, and maybe not a lot in the last week or so, I just feel like Dan Snyder is looking around this year with all of the obvious erosion, the obvious revenue hit of the last few years.

and telling Bruce and Eric and Kyle and Doug and Jay, I can't do another year of Pernell McPhee, Orlando Scandrick, and Paul Richardson. I have to have something that I can move, that I can sell, that I can market. We need a jolt here. And Case Keenham isn't the jolt. You would agree with that, right? That doesn't move the needle at all. I would agree with that entirely.

I think that your feelings on having to move the needle is got to be important to everybody. Look, you got to start creating some belief and some hope. There's no question about that. But I disagree that Dan's involved in saying that. I would bet you anything that he's saying it's just about winning. And he isn't involved. That is my innate sense, and that is my feel for it. And until he decides that this group isn't going to win,

I'll bet you he'll feel that way. Let's just find a way to win, and that's what we'll move the needle. I'm over the mindset at this point, and watching a lot of games over the last year, and you brought up the indie game a million times, you do need some fans there. It is nice to have some people believing in your team. But I don't think at this point Dan does feel that way. I would bet you he doesn't. God, that's really interesting.

I mean, it's just at some point, I guess what you're saying, saying, and you can totally correct me on this. But I guess what you're saying is when Bruce came back for 2019, it's because he still believes in Bruce. Yes. Right? That's 100% what I'm saying. Yes.

On Jay's involvement, I had this sense, and it sounds like you completely disagree with it, which is fine, because I'm going to learn from this. I had this sense that last year that, you know, that Jay has go along to get along, as we've talked about before. And I personally think he does know quarterbacks and can coach quarterbacks. And I want him to be influential in these quarterback decisions, much more so than I would want Bruce to be influential in these quarterback decisions. But my immediate reaction on Case Keenum was, you know,

Jay saying, yeah, that's fine, whatever. You know, not that he was pushing for. But, you know, not that he was pushing for it. I just, so I look at last year and no one thought that much about Alex Smith. You know, there was the potential that they were going to move him. Obviously, people understood that. You didn't exactly know what the Chiefs

had in the Holmes as it came out. Jay hadn't evaluated a bunch of quarterbacks. It came out early. I don't think that he had watched Alex Smith at all, so I don't think he knew anything about Alex Smith. I agree. And that's how I feel based on timing. This timing's

different. The Broncos trade for Flacco three weeks ago. And so you know that they're going to deal Case Keenham. So I think Jay had a lot of time to look at Case Keenham. And I would bet you he was at least a voice in that room in terms of how you felt about Case Keenum and what you wanted to do with him. And to take it a step further, and this is, I have no clue because I'm with you that Jay's been go along to get along on a lot of these players for a long time. if I am in what is perceived as my last year as a head coach. The go along to get along is out the door, man. It's out the effing door.

I want my guys. I want to do it. I want to take a shot. I want to try to do everything I possibly can to say, I'm the head coach. We're going to do it my way this time. Or, you know what? Fire me if you don't want to do it my way. I would do that if I were him.

I don't know if he's doing that. But it just seems like the natural response, you know, to your back against the wall a little bit. Okay, it makes sense to me. The one thing, well, let me just add to that. He believes in Colt McCoy. I still believe that he wants a shot at a season with Colt, even though it seems impossible that Colt could play 16 games based on his injury history.

But that comment alone last week on the question about, why do you believe so much in Colt McCoy? And he said, you know, I could be ignorant on this thing. And then he went on and on about Colt McCoy. Case Keenham is acceptable to Jay versus a Teddy Bridgewater or a Ryan Fitzpatrick, because if you were to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick, Fitzpatrick's coming in to start. He's going to be your starter. And you're signing Fitzpatrick, by the way, to a $6, $7, $8 million deal potentially for one year.

He's your starter. So perhaps Keenham for Jay was a better path to go down because that means Colt's still has a legitimate chance if he beats Keenham out to be the quarterback. I think Colt has, I think Cole would have to vastly outplay Colt in training camp to get the starting job, and I think Colt would have had to vastly outpay Fitzpatrick, depending on that's my point. So Keenham was the preference. It would be interesting what Fitzpatrick is going to dictate in where he falls.

If he falls after the draft somewhere, it might not be $6, $7, $8 million. I think seven's probably in that ballpark, but who's going to sign Fitzpatrick? It depends on what you're signing him for, to your point. That's the important point that you made. If you're signing him to be your starter, then he probably will get $6, $7, $8 million. If there's no starting job available and you're signing Ryan Fitzpatrick to be a backup, which is, by the way, what he was in Tampa behind James Winston, then you are, you know, you're not paying that much.

The point I was trying to make is that for Jay, go along, get along Jay, Keenham is a better path for him because if it had been Fitzpatrick, then he's got to start Fitzpatrick, even if he loves Colt and wants Colt. In this particular case, at $3.5 million for a sixth, you know, a sixth swapping with a seventh, it's a training camp battle. And to your point, and I don't disagree with you, Colt likely has the edge going in, and everybody can live with that. Other than I disagree that signing any quarterback dictates that they're the starter,

just looking at if I were the head coach, and I knew, like, I had this innate feeling in my gut about Colt McCoy. If I paid Fitzpatrick $7 million, and this is my last year, I'm going down with my guy. I know, but that's my point, that his influence came in the form of going, down the path of the guy that wasn't going to be identified as the starter? Because if Bruce had said... We disagree on the fact that Fitzpatrick would be immediately named the starter. Okay. I disagree with that.

I think if they paid him seven to eight million for one year, certainly the perception would be that you signed him to be your starter next year. Yeah. And then a lot of times, perception's reality. Just in this case, I don't see that perception. It's reality. If it were me, I'd say, yeah, thank you for getting a great backup. brilliant guy. I think Jay would love Fitzpatrick's a good dude. The guys all like him. I think

he'd be fine. I don't know. I like this Keenham thing so much because I just, I saw this one path that I just didn't like is losing the Rosen trade or not getting Rosen and maybe you don't want him. You know, there's something to that too. There's some scariness to him. Not getting a guy in the draft, not feeling comfortable, taking your 15, having Daniel Jones, Ryan Finley, whoever else fall before you get to your second round pick. And then grasping at straws as you, you get into the early part of March in OTAs and saying, who's available? I know we can get Brock Osweiler. That's what you didn't want it.

That was the bad bath. Right. No, I agree. So you took care of depth and you took in. You got a guy that you can live a season with. Yeah, I mean, again, I mean, it's a good deal for an average player. It's what they do best and it's insurance. And they didn't have it as of, you know, midday yesterday.

I was going to ask you one other thing about Keenham, and I forgot. How long have you been saying that Keenham was going to play quarterback? That's so funny. A bunch of people tweeted me, and I had forgotten about it when we were going. Are you going to get Keenum? You've been saying this verbatim, who are you going to go get, Casey Keenom, for five years now. So finally your dream came true. Right, but that was before he had the good year in Minnesota, which everybody pointed out,

you would have taken Case Keenham's year in Minnesota, but for those that missed it for a couple of years, when they were going back and forth with cousins and not, you know, taking advantage of having an opportunity to sign them on the relative cheap, you know, I just said, great, that's good. We'll go out, let him walk, and we'll have Case Keenum as our starter in 2016 or 17 or whatever the year was. And he was just, you know, one of ten quarterbacks I could have picked out of a hat. that were unimpressive to me. All right, real quickly on free agency, which starts early next week. And on Monday, we'll probably start having reports about teams and players during that,

you know, negotiating period. Is there somebody or a group of people that you've thought about for the Redskins? Not enough. I love the tight end in Baltimore that I think signed yesterday. Yeah, Boyle. Nick Boyle signed a three or $18 million deal. I mean, I loved him so much that everybody I saw, this is your guy.

So this guy gets a free agency and you don't sign this guy. You're crazy. I think he's a true wide-hide end, which is something that the Redskins need a lot, in my opinion. If you want to run the ball and use some stretch zone and marry your run game to your past game a little bit more, which I think they do because it seems insane that they don't. You need that.

And you need a guy that's not a tendency guy. So I like to boil a lot. And in saying that, you've got to go find a guy right now or you've got to draft a player. There are some big-time tight-in draft as well in terms of why tight-ins. Right. So there's a potential to go get a guy in this draft, which I think they need.

They need at least a legit dude as a starting safety. So Honey Badger, Landon Collins, Earl Thomas, Eric Weddle. I don't know if you can afford Collins. I don't know if you can afford the Honey Badger. I love them both. They're both dudes. They're both smart.

we can do everything you ask him to do play man coverage, play down physically tackling the box I don't know if you get I don't know if you're in that in that ballpark I mean you got to do some things with your cap I think to be able to negotiate that Thomas is interesting because he's not going to be as much money

Weddell's really interesting not going back to Baltimore I think he said in his postgame press conference after the last game that he'd retire he wasn't going to stay in Baltimore so see what happens there I like Weddle a lot I think he's a really smart player to me it goes back to that some of the things in the secondary

I know DJ is self-proclaimed the smartest player in football but you do need a very intelligent player back there and a selfless player and I think Wettle did that in Baltimore and really dictated and ran that defense or ran that secondary very well for him so I think that's really interesting

like Mosley out of Baltimore they're not going to lead in tag him that's really interesting I know you have Sean Dion and Rubin but you know how sure are you on Rubin and is Sean Dionne fully back? So Mosley would be big time in the middle for you. You can sure up that front seven.

See what they do with Preston Smith. There's a lot of good eddressers in this draft. So that's a potential at 15. And then you need a nickel corner to me is one other thing. Oh, and by the way, we need a receiver. And I don't know if that's available in a free agency at this point. But Antonio Brown trade. He hasn't been dealt yet.

I'm sure you, I don't know if you were following this last night or not, but Ian Rappaport reported he was going to be traded to Buffalo, and then Schefter said that's not happening. And now apparently Antonio Brown said he wouldn't play for Buffalo. You know, I wonder if the Redskins are still involved. Diana Rusini reported last night that they're out on Antonio Brown, but perhaps that's because of the Buffalo deal that people thought was in the works. I mean, that is still...

Here's what I think. Here's what I think. Okay. I think Antonio Brown thinks he's getting a new deal wherever he signs. Right. And so if he were to go to, let's see, Indy, Houston, Tennessee, New York to play for the Jets, any of these teams to have $100 plus million on the cap that essentially have to give big deals, he could get another big deal.

And so I'm sure he's hoping to get another deal. That's the only caveat there. if Antonio Brown was under his current deal structure, he is ideal here for the next two years for the Redskins. But if he's saying to any team, F that, new dealer, I'm not coming in, then you can't trade for him. So his agent's got to be involved in that, and he's got to be involved in that trade a little bit as well.

So it doesn't give the Steelers as much authority to do whatever they want to do with him. But I'll bet you that there's a big part of the Antonio Brown trade where he's saying, I ain't playing for you unless you give me new contract. Did you say this to me the last time you were on last week or, were you on with me Monday or last Friday? I can't even remember now. That you still think there's a decent chance he ends up in Pittsburgh.

Was that you? I didn't say that. What I said to you is I don't know why Pittsburgh was doing. Well, I agree with that. But he must be crazy and he doesn't want to be there. They've already eaten the big part of his cap. They got the better part of the next three years of his deal available. He's one of the best three receivers in the league.

I mean, you've got to figure it out with Ben, in my opinion. Let's get together. Right. Going a little fishing trip, you know. Right. Who did that? All right. You just...

A little Pacer players. You went through a bunch of players. Will you sit here for five minutes and let me sketch out a free agency plan here for the Redskins? And I just want your thoughts on it? Yeah, if you'll let me ask you one question. Okay. How'd your sleep study go? I backed out on it.

No, you didn't. I swear to God. What's wrong with you? I don't know. So let me just, no one knows about this. You care about yourself? I was scheduled for this sleep thing, this sleep apnea study. And, you know, I don't, whatever.

It's a long story as to why it was scheduled for me. But I got to that day, and I told you, this was on Monday, and I started reading through all the shit that they're going to hook up to me. And I was just like, I don't want to do this. I just don't want to do it. You were afraid of having something. No, it wasn't that I was afraid. It was just that it was just going to be inconvenient.

I just didn't feel like my. You need to go do it. Okay, I'll go do it. Fine. Nobody cares about this. I'll go do it. I care. That answers the question.

Everybody cares about you. I want to sketch out this situation, and I want your thoughts on it, because I gave thought to this the last couple of days. And it's not completed because there's still some holes here, but it's a plan. First of all, after the Keenham deal, the Redskins have roughly somewhere around 14 to 15 million in cap space. All right? Somewhere around 14 million, call it in cap space. A couple of things they're going to do here, I would guess over the next, you know, week or so. They're going to restructure Brandon Sheriff.

By the way, if they don't get Sheriff restructured, it's not a good sign because it means that Sheriff wants to be a free agent. Now, the Skins can always franchise him next year, but I hope that Brandon Sheriff wants to stay here. And I hope they can restructure Sheriff, get that deal done. I think, and I had J.I. Hallsell on the show the other day, he's going to get 11 or 12 million a year. He's going to get a five-year, $70 million deal. Do you agree with that? Yeah, but five years, $11 million a year is $17. 12.

He's going to get $11 to $12 million, so it's going to be somewhere max $5 years. I'm sorry, $14 million a year. My fault. Excuse me. Yeah, okay. My fault. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Look, I mean, 70's what he would dictate on the open market.

Right. So I think you're probably in the vicinity of $5 years $12 million, which is $60. I think if you could get it done, he's coming off an injury year. I would have tried to get it done the second he got hurt, but I mean, God, that's so smart. That's so smart. Maybe that looks a little desperate, but I'd go to him and say, I don't care that you're hurt. I mean, that doesn't matter at all.

We get paid right in the second. You've got time. This is obviously something that's going to be on your mind in a big way right now. Let's knock this sucker out right the second. And let's bring you in and let's bring your agent in and let's spend a day together. So let's go to Bonarotti's and have some dinner and talk this out and get your deals up. And I would have knocked it out right that second. So I, but I feel, you realize that open market doesn't always dictate.

Zach Martin's deal is for $14 million a year. All right. And he was a free agent. Yeah. And he was a free agent. So you got to think it's lower than the open market guy. Okay. Well, let me get through this.

Basically, Brandon Sheriff's going to, whatever they do, you're going to end up with, based on the 19 salary the way it is now, you're going to get some relief in the neighborhood of $3 million off of the 19 cap. So that gets them to 17. You release Zach Brown, that's $6 million in cap savings. Release Vernon Davis, that's $5 million in cap savings. Release Stacy McGee, that's roughly $2 million in cap savings. And you're at 30. Now, they could. I mean you've got to do Josh Norman.

Josh Norman either restructured or if you release him, it's $8.5 million. I don't think they're going to release him. They said, and they've been saying they think they're close. They don't have an answer there without them. I don't think they're going to release them. He'd be smart to restructure that deal. Yeah, but do you have to give them more money to restructure? Yeah, sort of.

I mean, you can extend the deal and give him more upfront money. I like Josh. I got no problem with Josh. You like them in a zone scheme. Well, they run a lot of zone. I know. They play a lot of cover three and a lot of quarters. I just don't like him.

I just don't like him playing star coverage in tight-slit receivers and third downs. So you get your best receiver and you put him in tight-split. I don't like that. I mean, I like him against bigger guys. I think he was okay against Julio Jones. I know that sounds crazy, but I think he was okay in that game against Tullo. Gave up a couple things, but it gets bigger guys. I think he's fine.

It's those quick in-breaking routes that he struggles with. All right. Let's just assume for a moment that they don't do anything with Norman. deal. But you get to 30. But you get to 30, and maybe with a couple of other things, Mason Foster is still a potential release, isn't he? At $2.5 million? I think that's like $2.5 million. But you're probably not going to release. You can't just release every other inside linebacker because what's your... Sean Deion Hamilton, Ruben Foster. And, and Josh Harvey Clemens. So you're going to have

to acquire somebody else there or draft somebody. Okay. Jordan Reed, can you restructure him to save some more money? I wouldn't restructure if I was Jordan Reed. All right, so let's work with $30 million. All right, and let's just say somehow, it's somewhere around $30 million. All right. We both agree that they're not done at quarterback, but drafting a quarterback, that's insignificant. Here's what I have.

First of all, I would like them to resign Jameson Crowder. If they can get Crowder on the cheap, and I'm wondering after a year in which he missed seven, games caught just 29 balls if you couldn't do a short-term prove-it deal with Crowder to put Crowder into a better position a year from now to strike free agency gold. Do you think he's going to get a big deal? I think he's going to get more than you expect him to get. You don't think the Redskins could sign him one year for a million bucks? No, I think he's getting at least eight million bucks a year. Really? Yeah, his film, I think he was asking for a lot more than that before the injury. But I think some of his

16-17 film plus, you know, some of the stuff he did this year when he came back is going to dictate that he can win underneath and he's got a lot of speed. I think it's going to be tough to do Crowder. In terms of a team-friendly deal, I think you're going to have to pay a little bit

for Crowder. And also keep in mind, the open market for wide receivers is not good right. No, you're right. They're not a lot of guys. Crowder might come in in the top four. Does coming in the top four. Okay. That was the first step in terms of signing players is to try to figure something out with Crowder. I know you're a big believer in Quinn, and I know Jay's a big believer in Quinn, but Crowder's more proven, and Quinn's also been injured. Give away good players. I can like Quinn all I want. You just want to still want as many

talented players on your team, and Jamison is one. So I like Jameson. All right. Landing Collins, You have a need. He's a reported very good teammate leader. We know how good of a player he is. And in this particular market, this is my view, to shoot it down, if you will, with all of the safeties that are out there, a crowded safety market, as much as we've ever seen in free agency. I mean, there's a chance that he's not going to get what he wants. I mean, if you could get him four years, 44 million, 11 million a year, you know, 20 of that game. guaranteed, you fill a major need with a quality player, quality leader, quality person. I mean, I've got more things to come here because I think the pass rusher is more important than Landon Collins personally. But if you could get him at 4 for 44, would you do that? It also goes into that shoot the moon theory on Alabama players. You are essentially going to put together the entire Alabama defense in 2016, because he's part of that defense as well. So I got to assume, based on their desire to build that entire Alabama defense,

which I, I mean, it was one of the best defenses in the history of college football, and I think they're amazing. I would bet you he's their number one priority. You do. Okay. So that would be my thought. And I'll bet you, like, you've got John Allen and Dron Payne and all these guys that are like, please go get Landon Collins.

And the Landon Collins is, dude, man. He's a good player. I like Landon. What about the possibility that they are stubborn on the Haha Clinton Dick's deal and they don't want to look bad for giving up a fourth for him, and they re-sign Haha? I mean, I guess one doesn't necessarily preclude the other, right? It's possible you could sign both. No, it's absolutely possible. I think that some of Haha's stuff that was bad was really bad when you see a guy coming up to tackle

and that's glaring. But as far as his ability to cover and where he was as a single high safety in his position, so it wasn't as bad as everyone thought. Like, he's got some stuff to him. Ha ha ha does. Also, the good teammate, smart player, works with everybody.

Oh, yeah, he's going to be in the Alabama defense from whatever. So it's essentially like your goal of putting together 11 guys that say Alabama, that adds to that. You know we actually joked about that a couple years ago, and it's crazy. I know. But you're not going to overpay Haha. I know that a lot of people had a problem with some of the mistackles and some of the stuff,

but there was some things that he did that you feel comfortable with. All right, two more names for you. Zadarius Smith, Baltimore. You know, I loved the Ravens defense. And he is an edge rusher. He's a complete three-four outside linebacker. He's 25, 26 years old. He's been playing with T-Suggs, learning from a Hall of Famer.

I think that he's every bit of what Preston Smith is, not better. And part of what I want this off-season to be is I want them to continue to build a defense. You know, they already have a nice, you know, foundation up front. I want them to continue to build with young players on defense. Zadarius Smith, I was reading through all of the potential numbers for him. And a lot of people think that he could get up to $8 million a year, that he could get a four-year $32 million a year deal.

If you paid him eight and you paid him, Landon Collins 11, and then the last player I'll mention to you because I've always been a fan. If you remember, we talked about this guy during the 2015 draft. I love Shane Ray. I have no idea what his medical is. Oh, I like Shane Ray, too. I have no idea what his medical is, but it's going to keep the price down, the wrist surgeries that he's had. If he's healthy, if he's not a crazy person, he's 6.3, 250, and he is true speed as an edge pass rusher. If you added Smith Ray and Collins to your defense. You know, we're now getting close to that 30 million in space.

There's still a little bit of dry powder left for a guard. And I can't evaluate the guards. I don't know the difference between Quentin, Spain. I haven't even looked at a lot of these guys. I forgot a guard. It's Quentin Spain in Tennessee, John Miller and Buffalo, Roger Saffold in L.A. They're three of the biggest veteran guards.

There's no Norwell out there. there's no big high dollar guard in free agency this year but I think if you added you know if you added Collins Smith Shane Ray

and if you kept Crowder you basically you know added and kept in combination three starters and there's a wild card in Shane Ray and I would think that Ray you could get a prove it deal he's coming off two years worth of injuries and if he's healthy you

you could potentially get a short-term deal for not a lot of money on a guy like him. And he's got huge upside. So that's my plan. I don't have a guard answer. They'll have to figure that out. And I don't have a wide receiver answer beyond Crowder. Because there really isn't. I mean, Dante Moncrief's available.

You liked Moncrief, right? Not especially. Oh, okay, I'm thinking to somebody else. What about John Brown? Do you like John Brown? I thought he played very well for the Ravens last year. Yeah, John Brown was so good for the Cardinals for a couple years and it was so bad for the Cardinals.

And then how do you play well for the Ravens last year anyways? Well, he did win when Flacco was a quarterback. He made some plays early. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. I like John Brown. I think he's a good player. You'll be surprised with a guy like Zadaria Smith gets because you were surprised where a guy like Trent Murphy got last year.

True. So that's the kind of like that young talent, Eddress. speed guy. It might be $8, $9, $10 million a year, but there's going to be some incentive to that too. Like if Zadariah Smith were to hit 10 sacks, you know, there's going to be some upsets.

That's the kind of deal you'd get with Shane Ray as well. It is playtime incentive combined with production incentive, especially on those privy type of deals. Preston Smith, for whatever reason, is going to get paid. Not for whatever reason. He's going to get paid more than I think I'd be willing to pay him. And it's crazy because his,

his health and durability is phenomenal. It's just his production's down. And his agent and that whole camp's going to say, look, how many pressures have we had over the last couple years and how many things we do in the run game over the last couple years? But for me, I'm going to say, what was your production there? And I'm going to watch a lot of that stuff and not necessarily want to pay over $10 million,

which I think is what Preston's going to get. Is it Arias Smith, be interesting? Shade Ray would be interesting. Again, the draft's interesting in that position. You can find some guys there. Yeah, definitely. I mean, at 15, there's a possibility of a, you know, a true potential edge rusher. You know, also, I mean, there also is a potential that there's a true edge rusher sitting there at 10, 11, 12.

If Miami has to move up to take quarterback or three, I mean, you look at their two corners going in the first 10 picks, there's potentially a receiver. there's probably three quarterbacks that go in the first 15 picks. There's two D tackles that are going to go in the first 15. There's a lot of guys that could come off. You're not going to get the kid out of Kentucky, and you're not going to get both out of Ohio State. And you're not going to get sweat at this point either. He's the guy that I've loved all year.

I mean, his workout, it means that he's no worse than top 10, if not top five. But there are 20 guys that are top 15 guys right now. And so depending on how it shakes out, the idea of a John Allen falling to you, who might have been a top five pick, is not out of the question. I agree. I agree. But here's the thing, Cooley. It could come in the form of a D-Tackle. So let's just say that, you know, a Christian Wilkins or a, well, Quinn and Williams at this point isn't dropping. Apparently he had a ridiculous workout and they all think that he's a top, top, well, you should, he's in a lot of drafts, he's a top five pick. Right. But if it were a D-Tackle, would you feel differently if a John Allen type fell to 15? If a Christian Wilkins or a Cleland, you know, it's one of the, and Ed Oliver,

Ed Oliver is probably going to be there because of his tape from last year at Houston. But I know what you're saying. Look, they're going to have... Ed Oliver was a top five pick going into last year. Oh, number one at one point. He was elite. Yeah. I don't know, man.

I, like, how many D-Tackle? How many detackles do you need? You sign another de-tackle, and you better play four-three and let John Allen play in. Right. Well, I mean, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You signed another top-15 picket de-tackle, and you got Alan Payne, another top-15 pick at detackle. And I, like, four of the last three years of first-round picks are three-de-tackles.

I guess you're – and then what are you doing? I mean, I think it's hard to get them all on the field. You know what? Your point is – your initial point is the best one, and that is the push for these quarterbacks, you know, prior to the Redskins, you know, the Dolphins at 13, you know, potentially Cincinnati at 11, even potentially Denver at 10, even though they traded for Flacco, they could still draft a young quarterback. You know, Jacksonville's going to solve their problem with Foles. The Giants, obviously

at five, you know, you could end up with Haskins, Murray, and Locke, all gone. And who knows? that point may really love Daniel Jones and find out that the dolphins are in love with Daniel. The quarterbacks always get overdraft. Four quarterbacks aren't going in the top 15. No, probably not. Jones and Finley aren't going in the top 15. They shouldn't. You still think Locke's the second best quarterback in the draft behind Murray? I mean, I think this is the crazy thing for me. Apparently, I love Locke more than it's pretty much.

The biggest knock on Locke, as I've talked to people around the league, is that he throws way too much off his back foot. You know what he does off his back foot? He drops freaking dimes over and over. I know he does. He throws strikes up his back foot. He's amazing. And then you have this knock that he didn't play big enough in some big spots

because his production was down a little bit. You know what it takes to win against Alabama or have great production? All 10 of your starters are not as good as their 11 starter. They're 10 starters. Best defense is in the country in that league. It's hard to produce sometimes in that league. And I saw him make big throws in big spots. against big-time teams, which is not something I saw from Haskins.

I saw Haskins makes big throws against teams that they were better than, that they were more talented then. So, like, when you watch film, Kyler-Murie's the best player on film, okay? I'll do it like Charlie Casterly since he's so high on Murray, okay? He can make all the plays, okay? He's amazing on film. But that interview stuff is real, man. Charlie wasn't making that stuff up.

People are telling him that because that's real. You and I watched him do the Dan Patrick show. I've referenced this a bunch of times. That scares me to death what he did on the Dan Patrick show. And I'll bet you're sitting in a lot of meetings. It wasn't because he wasn't smart and it wasn't because he's not a leader. It's because his ho-hum, I don't give an F. I'm the best.

Nonchalant personality comes across is alarming. And I'm sure he can lead. his team. Lincoln Riley came out and said he can lead his team. I think I would, if I had no question, if I was the straight owner of a team, and if I wasn't getting fired, I'd pick lock.

Charlie, we all know Charlie and have known Charlie. Charlie's a responsible guy. He's not going to make that shit up for the purposes of a headline. There's no way. And Tommy and I talked about it yesterday. The criticism of him from a lot of people that just don't understand who he is. I mean, I totally believe that that information

came from somebody legitimate and it was real. I still also believe... He said it came from three teams. Right. I still also believe that the Cardinals are going to take Kyler Murray number one overall. I just don't... I think that was a big part of Kingsbury and then getting Kingsbury and Kingsbury loves him and I have no problem taking Murray number one, catering my offense to him and completely designing them around him and letting him lead in that fashion. I'm just saying, you know, overall, if I wanted the guy that I believe is ready to play quarterback right now in the NFL and any level, I would take law. The thing is, is if you're a GM or if you're a coach and you go out and something happens where Murray's the next best player

in the history of league and he'll sell more jerseys and he'll be more popular and he ends up being way better than Locke, your job's over. You're done. Right. So there's a lot of that risk, reward that falls into some of these players. But I'm in love with Locke. I think he's terrific. We'll see. I mean, you got proven in the NFL. We'll see. Lastly, actually two things. Number one, did you know that there are three potential tight ends that can go in the first round, including two from Iowa? Have you looked at any of the tight ends yet? Yeah, the Iowa kid. Which one? Hawkinson. Yeah, 38's the is Hawkinson. 38's a piece of baller, man. So I watched Missouri, I watch all that lock stuff. And so,

So I'm watching the kid that were 11, Kendall, something, for 11. Yeah, for Missouri. Yeah. He had to be, I'm watching him on tape, and I think he can do everything. He's a good wide-tied in 6-6, like 270, he can block. Maybe he could be a little bit more physical in the run game, but technically he able to do it. They split him out. He can go up and get balls.

I'm saying, this gets a first-round pick. And then he had a bad combine, ran like a 4-9, did not look explosive. So I don't know if that helped him at all. But you start watching this two Iowa kids. It's like Noah Fant, ran a 4-50, he's a move guy, H-back type of guy. And the other guy can do everything. 38, more 38. Yeah, T.J. Hawkinson.

T.J. Hawkinson. Kind of a dopey look. Yeah. It looks like you. Yeah, kind of awkward body. Yeah. I mean, seriously, when you watch him play number 38 for Iowa. Yeah, he plays like I do.

He does. He is. He's a first-round pick. If he were there at 15, I feel. think that's incredibly intriguing. I think that's the key, look, I played tight end, but I watch a lot of Jay's offense, and I watch a lot of this offense. I think it's a key

need in our offense is to have a legit, no tendency on the field, 95% of plays, why tight end who can do what you want him to do and also be involved in the past game? I loved that kid. So, and there were some other good players. There's a kid out of Stanford

that I thought was a good player. There's some H-back types guys that I wouldn't draft because of Reed. But there's a good class for tight ends. Lastly, did you see what Griffin tweeted? Aaron showed this to me this morning. Griffin, right when the Keenham deal was announced, tweeted out, that's definitely what the fans wanted.

Why is he doing that? Well, it is. I mean, it's funny. It's actually funny. It's actually funny that he's paying attention to it, why wouldn't he? I mean, I'm sure he's paying attention. to the team and the situation with the Redskins.

But that was definitely, you know, a shot at his former team, which it's fine, whatever. Is Baltimore going to resign him? I've not followed him. They are. Yeah. They should. He's the right.

He's the perfect backup for Jackson. Yeah. If you're going to operate in that fashion, you should 100% resign him. Yeah, I agree. There's got to be some. I mean, it's far enough removed. and I have no I want to see him have some success

I think it'd be intriguing I think well I think what they're going to do with Jackson just makes it obvious unless he was a pain in the ass which everything you read and I don't know why Harbaugh would lie about this but you know the fact that the Baltimore organization liked him respected him and thought he had grown up

and matured you know is is you know I think confirmation that on some level he probably has. It's the right place. No, we always did this with cousins and Robert and saying like, oh, yeah, this ex-girlfriend was crazy. She was way good in bed in 2012, but she was a lunatic. There's a lot to be said for, man, she grew up a bunch, right place, right time. She had a kid, you know, she's calmed down.

She's a great parent. Yeah. He's not that same person. Now, there's a lot to be said for Robert growing up and understanding where he's been and having to go through some roles to lose some ego. And I want to see him have success. And if it happens, you know, in that offense, I mean, Roman's going to be their OC.

It's that offense that he ran in 2012. He can do it. Yeah. It'd be fun to see. I mean, I'm still hearing every once in a while that, you know, her current boyfriend, you know, and I guess they're engaged now, you know, we'll say to a couple of his really good buddies, yeah, she can be a little bit nuts at times.

But, you know, she's pretty solid. And she, by the way, she's staying fit. She looks good, too. And she gets along all right with all of my friends and, you know. Right. I got a couple of friends that don't like her. She's doing all right with my current wife. She's a little jealous of my current wife.

But, I mean, she's a nice side piece. I'll call you over the weekend. All right, buddy. Thanks having me. All right. Chris Cooley, everybody. That was informative. And we got through a lot of stuff, including that free agent plan.

that I had put together. The guard thing, I can't evaluate the guards. I mean, Cooney's got to, you know, evaluate guards or, you know, they'll evaluate whether or not Quentin Spain from Tennessee or John Miller and Buffalo or Roger Saffold and Los Angeles, if they're guys that they want to sign. I don't have the ability to do that, but I watched a lot of Baltimore last year,

and I like Zadarius Smith a lot. I don't know what kind of deal he's going to get. The projection is he could get. get up to $8 million a year for $32 million. It's a lot of money for Zadari Smith, but it would potentially, as coolly mentioned, be less than Preston Smith is going to get. And I think Zadariah Smith might be as good, if not better, than Preston Smith. The Collins thing, I don't know how you could go wrong unless you way over pay.

You know, is he going to get an Eric Barry deal? Maybe not. Maybe that's the reason you do it in this particular market is because of the crowded safety market and you could get landing Collins for four years, 44 million, 20 million guaranteed 11 million a year. And if that's what you could get them for, it's worth it. Shane Ray's always been one of those guys. I loved coming out of Missouri and he's just had injuries. But in his first two years, he was effective. He had 12 sacks in his first two seasons playing opposite Von Miller, you know, won a Super Bowl, played well in that Super Bowl game when Denver beat Carolina. You know, but since then, he's had two

wrist injuries, I think maybe even three. And it's kept him out of the majority of games the last two years. But he is explosive. Like he's not Preston Smith and Ryan Carrigan. If he matures and he stays healthy, he's the guy that would put fear

into a defensive coordinator off the edge if he reached his potential. Now maybe they'll do due diligence and find out the medical doesn't work or there are other issues with Shane Ray that wouldn't make it worthwhile. But I would imagine that Shane Ray can be had on a very short-term deal for not a lot of money. He's got to prove that he's healthy. So maybe a

two-year-six million, two-years $8 million deal for Shane Ray, you know, and maybe it's not eight million, maybe it's seven, maybe it's three and a half a year and you, you have them prove it. And maybe you have a bunch of incentives there that you can build into the deal. But I do want them to add to the defense. I want a pass rusher. I want, you know, safety for sure. And I think it'd be great if they could keep Crowder. I don't think they're going to keep Preston Smith. I think Ty and Secchi's too old if you're thinking about their existing free agents. Adrian Peterson's going to come later, I believe.

I think the Redskins are going to get through the spring, and that AP will probably also wait until you get into the summer and the need from the Redskins or another team becomes obvious and it becomes a better situation for Adrian Peterson. I do think there's a chance that they re-sign Haja Clinton Dix, even if they were to sign Landon Collins. And I think that takes care of their existing free agents. We know that Jay likes Byron Marshall, who's a, I think, a restricted free agent.

I think Mo Harris is also. And actually, the other guy that's a restricted free agent is Rob Kelly. I don't know if any one of those three are coming back. But anyway, you know, next week starts what is a busy time. I thought the most interesting comment that Cooley made this morning with us is that none of this is being driven by Dan, that the decision to bring Bruce Allen back was a decision to continue as he has for the most part, and I know most of you don't believe it, but for the most part, stay out of it much more so anyway than he used to, and that Bruce is running the team,

but he also, you know, I think that's a significant thing, because you know how I have felt in the last few weeks, that Dan can't do another year. of, you know, subpar average players for good deals that don't move the needle. I just think this is a move the needle situation for him, but it sounds like Cooley thinks that that is not the case. That doesn't mean, well, put it this way. If they trade for Antonio Brown, if that's still on the table, that reeks of Snyder being involved.

And I would call Cooley up and say, huh, Dan's not involved? Come on, this is a ticket-selling, jersey selling move. It's a move to help the team, but this came from the top because that's not a Bruce move. Although then again, they got Deshawn Jackson for a great deal, and he made the move on that. Anyway, it's going to be exciting, I think, the next few weeks, and every day we'll try to figure it out and watch it go through. And I was going to say also that if for whatever reason there's news that breaks over the weekend, it's big, big news will come in here and do a podcast. Let me tell you about Ferris Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Fairfax. If you are thinking about something new, give Ferris a shot.

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But let's start by getting your thoughts on the Redskins trade for K. Keenham. What do you think? Well, you know, I put out a tweet last night and probably on second thought, I had to rethink this a little bit, but I said, you know, it's like anticipating you're going to take a trip to the Bahamas and finding out it's a weekend in Ocean City. That's a real knock on Ocean City, man. Ocean City for many, for many years was the spot. Okay, yeah, I mean, great thrashers. Not the Bahamas. Love thrashers. Love the boardwalk. It's fine. But, you know, here's the reality. I think this does not bode well for Colt McCoy, which is fine with me because he's only good for about three or four games anyway. And I still think there's the possibility that they bring in Josh Rosen or maybe even trade up for one of the quarterbacks in the draft. So it's not all that bad. And for the price, what, $3.5 million? Why not? I think that overall this is not necessarily a bad move by the Redskins. Yeah, I think Kooley just spent a long time with us, and we sort of shared the same opinion that this is an insurance policy at $3.5 million.

An insurance policy on if Colts not good enough, if Colt gets hurt, if they're not able to get a young quarterback like Rosen or somebody in the draft that's ready to play. I personally don't think it rules out Colt McCoy as the starter to begin 2019 at all. At $3.5 million, you didn't bring in a default starter. You brought in an insurance policy in Keenum. But, you know, the bottom line is this isn't, you know, a move the needle, sell tickets, marketing move. Like, Case Keenam's not moving any needle. No, no, no, no, no. You didn't sell any tickets yesterday because you traded for Case Keenum.

So I think there's more to come. Anyway. Also, let me give you some credit here because I think it was about seven or eight years ago where you said, Yeah, I'd just see Kirk Cousins playing for the Redskins. He was still at Michigan State at the time. And I believe you said when the future of Kirk was very much in doubt in Washington, that Case Keenham would likely wind up here. You're pretty good at this. Well, you know, I'm glad you remember these things, because, you know, Tommy never remembers any of this stuff. He only remembers the things he's right about.

But I did say, I think, a year before Kirk Cousins was drafted, that I was a Cousins fan at Michigan State, and he'd be a really good selection for the skins in the second or third round and could potentially be a starter, you know, and a quarterback of the future. But the Case Keenham comments were dismissive and condescending. I was like, you know, if you're not going to sign cousins, you're going to end up with a guy like Case Keenum, God damn it. I mean, what's that going to look like? But that was also before he had a decent year in Minnesota. I personally think he's, you know, barely a starter in the NFL.

I think Colt McCoy and Keenham are comparable. You know, people, and I mentioned this earlier in the show, people tweeted me and said, Sheehan, why didn't they just sign Case Keenum last year? Well, because Alex Smith is a better quarterback. You know, Alex Smith has been a better quarterback, and the potential for Alex Smith was a much better situation, which is why they had to trade for Alex Smith and give him a contract extension. Now, Alex Smith wasn't good for the Redskins last year.

I don't think he was what I thought he would be, and that didn't mean that he wasn't on the verge of becoming that. But that's why, because they valued, they thought, and I think most people in the league would have said Alex Smith is a better quarterback than Case Keenham. By the way, before we get to your key anniversary dates, I wanted to get your reaction to Buck. Oh, God. I mean, the most galling thing I read concerning this was what Phil Hockberg, his lawyer said about it, that there were concerns about his chemistry with Kara Lawson. You and I have done radio for a long time with different partners, and developing chemistry is a great thing.

It usually takes a lot of time, and for them to conclude in less than two seasons, that Carol Lawson and Buck don't have good chemistry is absolute nonsense. They got rid of somebody who had great chemistry with him and Phil Schneer. He didn't have to go. But if they bring her in and they feel, oh, it's up to Buck to develop chemistry with her, that's a joke. That's an absolute joke. And that's disgusting.

And this is a bad basketball team. The one constant they've had through all the years of the ups and the downs and the Gilbert and all the things that went before and after was Buck. Buck and Sheenier kept it together. And I know they're trying to retract younger eyeballs who don't watch television anymore. But while they're trying to do that, they're going to lose people like you and me who do watch games on television. So I don't know what the net gain for them for doing this is. It's absolutely ridiculous.

I mean, I just, you're 100% right on all that. It's so interesting to me because we've dealt with program directors that have not understood that, first of all, chemistry is not guaranteed. In fact, it's unlikely, you know, when you pair two people. Secondly, if it happens, it rarely happens right away. It takes a while. And thirdly, I would add to this, I actually, and I watch a lot of Wizards games, probably too many for the product that they are delivering. But I actually think that Buck and Kara have very good chemistry this year.

I do. I could sense last year, yeah, I could sense last year that it was, you know, they were trying to figure it out at times, which is only natural. But I actually, in listening to them, I miss Phil, don't get me wrong, but I think the broadcast team of Phil and Kara, and also Chris Miller, who I think does a great job in his role, I think it's a very good broadcast. And I give Buck a lot of credit for that. You and I both know this, you know, you have to have some ability and versatility to make it

work, and Buck's done that. an old school thing on this. You may not remember him, but there was a guy named Dave Dyle. We used to do the college football. Yeah, an ABC. ABC. And then they hired Warner Wolf in the 70s, and they wanted to spice it up. So they put Warner in with Dave Dile.

Well, Warner has since told me that Dile never spoke to him off the air, did not welcome him in, so there was going to be no chemistry anyway because Dile resented his presence. The fact that Buck was welcoming to Kara and helped her along and helped her. to develop chemistry and made the transition a lot less awkward than it could have been, getting rid of Phil Schneer, is the credit to him. And now they want to blame chemistry on him? That's a joke. It's, you know, it even goes beyond that.

You and I have had this conversation so many times over the years. But, you know, first of all, and I made this point with Scott yesterday, I don't know if Scott did something last night on his sports center. I haven't watched it yet, but he told me that he was going to do his one big thing about Buck. And he actually sent me some of the things that he was going to talk about. I don't know if he did or not. But there are two things. One, Buck's still really good.

Like, he hasn't lost his fastball. If we were having this conversation about Dick Stockton as our local guy or Jack Buck at the end of his career, okay, we understand he's not that good anymore. Buck is still great. And then the second part of this, and you and I have had this conversation so many times. times as it relates to sports talk radio. I think sometimes these management people don't understand that a guy like Buck has made this connection over a long period of time. People have, he's become a habit for people that they don't want changed. You know, and thinking outside the box and cutting

edge and, you know, all the monumental Ted and Zach and the whole thing, that's great. I mean, go push your sports betting and have your basketball team suck until your heart's content. But you've got to understand that, you know, change because, for change's sake or the idea of being outside the box thinkers and being impressed with yourself in the way you think and the way you operate, you're going to alienate a lot of people because he has connected over a long period of time with a lot of people, and he's still really good at what he does. Yep. Yep. It gets out of the way and really, and, you know, the next guy that comes in, it may not matter to a lot of people, but it matters to me that he's, He can talk about Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld and Earl the Pearl Monroe and people like that. And, you know, that helps to keep the broadcast moving along.

That matters to people. That matters to you and me. That doesn't matter to the majority. What's important, though, is that he's really good at calling a game, which he is. He's one of the best. All right, let's get to your, what are we celebrating here? Okay, two things. One, Sunday is the 50th anniversary of the firing of Frank Fellows.

Who was Frank Fellows? Okay. Frank Fellows replaced Bud Milliken, who was Gary Williams coach at Maryland, was there for a long time. Fellows lasted two years. He won 16 games over the two years. They hired to replace him a coach at Davidson by the name of Lefty Drezel. But when they fired Fellows, they couldn't make the announcement because Lefty's Davidson team was still playing, and they were playing what was not then called that, but is called that now, the Sweet 16 in College Park. And in the Sweet 16 game, they beat St. John's to match up with North Carolina. And North Carolina had a star player by the name of Charlie Scott,

who's first African-American to play in the Atlantic Coast Conference. No one of the first, I guess Billy Jones was in Maryland before that, but the first to play at North Carolina. And left the almost had him. Lett he almost got him at Davidson, couldn't get him. They wind up playing Davidson against North Carolina. Now, unless Steph Curry's there, that's the third. point game today. But Lefty took him down to the wire with two seconds to go. Charlie Scott

hits a 20-foot jumper, and North Carolina wins 8785. That's as close as Lefty got to the final four. And the final four was played in Louisville that year, so then Lefty could be hired. Shortly after being hired, he takes out a full-page ad in the Washington Post and says, we want you. James Brown, Jim O'Brien, Floyd Lewis, and Dave Freytag. He got O'Brien. James Brown and Lewis went to Harvard. Fritag went to Boston College, had no career. And that was the foundation of what he was about to build to put together one of the great programs in the East,

and certainly the great programs that Maryland had ever had. So let's fast forward now, five years, almost to the day, which will be March 9, 1974. They are playing North Carolina State in the ACC Championship game. In those days, only 25 teams go to the NCAA tournament. Only the winner of the ACC championship games goes. Regular season, forget about it. It's only the winner of that game.

The loser either goes to the NIT or goes home. And they played what has been called by many, including Billy Packer, who called the game, the greatest college basketball game ever played. NC State won 103-100 in overtime. Now, David Thompson is the best college basketball player I ever saw. And in this game, he had 29 points. He was 10 of 24. Tom Burleson, it was 7-4, at 38 points.

And you could look to Len Elmore and say, geez, he really took Elmore to school. Elmore was charged with Conagarding Thompson and Conagarding Burleson, and it didn't quite work out. Here's another note that I came across, and you're not been aware of. This really was funny and ironic. You know, Tom McMillan was supposed to go to North Carolina.

Remember that? Yeah. And lefty got him to go to Maryland at the last second. And while he was at North Carolina, McMillan was trying to recruit Tom Burleson to come with him because he said he didn't want to play center at North Carolina. Why is, of course, playing at Maryland. And it comes down to this great game that's 55-50 at the half.

Maryland's up. Nine seconds left, tie game. Lefty calls timeout. And he says he wants Lucas to either drive the ball to the basket or kick it to Mo Howard, who's open in the corner, but he really would like Lucas to take the last shot. And he drives, he spots Mo Howard wide open in the corner. Elmore's under the basket yelling, shoot, shoot, shoot.

He kicks the ball out to Lucas, who isn't ready, has to rush up a shot. It's missed. It goes to overtime. Down one, 15 seconds to go. Lucas, Maryland's down 101, 100. Lucas is double team. He sees Elmore open 10 feet from the basket. throws a pass over his head. That's it, out of bounds.

NC State gets the ball. Monty Tows foul, hits both free throws. North Carolina State wins 103, 100. Maryland goes nowhere. It's amazing. You know, last week in the celebration of the 100 years of Maryland basketball, Scott emceed the event up in Baltimore on Saturday night. I couldn't go. I was invited to go, and I couldn't go. Had a family commitment on Saturday night and couldn't get out of it. But Scott called me when it was over, and he was telling me some of the stories that various people told.

And Mo Howard was there. And he said, it was really funny. He said, Mo Howard, you know, was telling a story. And he said, you know, people have asked me over the years why I didn't take the shot. It was an open shot in the corner at the end. And, you know, he said at one point, and I'm paraphrasing here, at one point, I guess Len Elmore was being interviewed. And he talked about, you know, if Mo Howard had just taken that shot, I told him to take the shot, as you just described. and we would have won the game because Mo Howard was a great shooter too.

And Mo Howard, his response was, I've been telling people over the years, if Elmore could have checked Burleson, we wouldn't have been in that position. Because Burleson had 38. And I would, Scott said that was one of just an incredible list of stories that were told last week. I'm really upset that I missed it. But anyway, a couple of things. Number one, I agree with you. I've always felt that David Thompson's the greatest player that I've ever watched in college basketball. With that said, I have watched that game many times, you know, as it was broadcast, you know, by Jefferson Pilot, you know, with, you know, of course, Billy Packer and Jim Thacker on the call, the famous, you know, ACC basketball pairing for those of you out there that are Andy's age and my age that grew up watching Sale with the pilot and the ACC games with Thacker and Packer. You know, about that game, it was a pure game.

And, you know, Feinstein, I remember in describing the game, talked about the lead official in the game. At one point, there was some, you know, bickering back and forth, and the referee got in the middle of it and said, not in this game, not in this game. This game's too good for that. And there was one turnover in the entire basketball game. But the one thing you notice when you watch this,

there's no defense played in this game. I mean none. There is no pressuring of the ball. the offenses run without any problem whatsoever to get the shots they want to get, which are all open shots. That's the way it was played. I won't get into the conversation I had with Tommy the other day about watching the 1963 NBA finals and saying to Tommy the other day that I think DeMath's 2019 team could have beaten the 63 Lakers. But that's beside the point. David Thompson was not only the greatest all-around college basketball player I've ever watched,

but for me, and I know you remember Kareem or Lou Al-Sinder, and Walton was clearly a star, but Thompson, for me, was the first big star in college basketball. He was a massive star, and he went to Denver in the ABA instead of going to the NBA, and he was involved in the famous 1976 ABA slam dunk contest, which Julius Irving won, beat David. I came down to Thompson and Dr. J.,

but I think George Gervin was in that, and I think, I want to, was Artis Gilmore, artist Gilmore may have been the fourth player in that dunk contest. Yeah, but either him or Larry Keenan, one of those two were the fourth in that slam dunk contest, but Thompson was incredible. He was unguarded, and Andy, in that game, I believe that Tom Roy and Owen Brown, the late Owen Brown, both guarded Thompson,

and one player fouled out and the other player ended up with four fouls in the game. Because he was impossible to check. He was absolutely, well, he could jump out of the gym. Yeah. He could also shoot. And, yeah, I mean, here's the thing about Thompson as a college player. I mean, we base so much now on what we see in NCAA tournament. He did play three years at NC State, but they cheated to get him.

So the first year, they were ineligible. That's right. Maryland made its only appearance with the McMillan-Elmore pairing in 1973. And then they, of course, won it in 1974. But 75, when he came back for what was his senior year, they didn't go. They didn't go to the NCAA tournament. No. So, you know, one year.

And he's known as, you know, maybe the greatest or certainly among the greatest college players ever. Yeah. That final year was the year in North Carolina and I think Virginia both went to the tournament in that final season in the ACC for Thompson. But yeah, in 73 Maryland went to the tournament. They were a top 10 team in 73, but they lost the ACC championship games. I think it was 76, 74 to NC State in the game that doesn't get talked about, which was also a great ACC final. But because State was on probation, Maryland went and Maryland got to. to the final eight that year. They got to the elite eight and lost to Providence and Marvin Barnes

and Ernie D and that particular team. Lefty had two Maryland teams that got to the elite eight. They got to the elite eight. I'm sorry, in 75, it was Maryland in North Carolina that were in the tournament. But Maryland went as the, as the ACC regular season champion in 75, but they didn't win the tournament. But they went to the elite eight that year and lost to, lost to Louisville and got blown out in that elite game, Elite eight game by Denny Crum and Louisville. But that was it. That and the Davidson story that you shared,

Lefty had three or four elite eights. Was it two with Davidson? Didn't he have two elite eights with Davidson? I don't know if you had another one, but I know that one, and that one was damn close. And I think he still would have become the Maryland coach if he got to the Final Four, because they weren't winning it that year.

UCLA was obliterating everybody. Yeah. But if he had gotten to the Final Four, I still think you would have gone to Maryland, but it would have made the choice more interesting. Yeah, I just pulled it up. He went to the Elite 8 in 68, went to the Elite 8 with Davidson in 69, and then with Maryland in 73 and in 75. And he never got closer than the Sweet 16 after that at Maryland, even though he had a lot of teams that we all thought, you know, over the years at Maryland were final four, you know, talent and contenders. And, you know, some of those teams had devastating losses.

You know, the 1980 team with Buck and Albert and Greg Manning and Reggie Jackson, that team lost to Georgetown in the Sweet 16 when the Terps were, I think, a two seed in that region. And people thought they were a Final Four team. And, you know, two of Len Biases teams, actually three of the teams, two Sweet 16 teams and then two second round losses. But certainly the two Sweet 16 years were years that people thought Maryland was talented enough to go to the final four. And that will be the mark against lefty as he never got to the final four, but we both know that the 74 team that lost NC State, he said this is the 45th anniversary of, it's amazing. I'll never forget that. I was young, and it's one of the first real sports moments I can

remember being upset. That and the Redskins losing to the Dolphins in the Super Bowl the year before. But the 74 team would have a lot. Yeah, that team, that certainly could have been a Final Four team. And who knows, they probably would have rematch either UCLA, who they played at the beginning of that year or NC State in the Final Four if they got there. But here's the biggest loss that Lefty had. And it happened about six months later when Moses Malone left for the ADA. Because you would have had Moses Malone with two first-round draft picks

in Brad Davis and John Lucas in the back court. No way that team doesn't get to the Final Four and probably obliterates everybody, even UCLA. Yeah, agreed. All right. That's it. I know you got something to do. I appreciate the time. That game is memorable. That game is still referred to, although I think Kentucky Duke in the Elite 8, the Christian Leitner shot. A lot of people say that's, you know, that along with the Maryland NC State game in 74 are often referred to as the greatest college basketball games in history. And it was. And you can watch the, the whole thing. They're all available on YouTube. And that's a fun watch if you're of a certain age to go back and watch that because it was an incredible, incredible game. All right, have a good weekend. You too. Take care. Thanks. Quick word on launch workplaces, which is an office solution provider. And right now, I want to tell you about the place in Bethesda,

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because of young kids or pets and you're looking for a place and a small place in a shared workspace environment, give launch workplaces in Bethesda a shot. can find out all you need to know, 240, 86714. That's 240, 86714. Tell them that I told you to call and you'll get an exclusive free two-day trial. Now, Launch Workplaces has other locations throughout the area, and you can find all of those

at Launchworkplaces.com. I've mentioned this many times, just will continue to mention it. If you know people that want to listen to the show and they're struggling with iTunes or any of the platforms for listening to a podcast, you can just tell them to go to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. The website has every day's show right there, front and center, with a big blue play button. It's really easy to listen to,

and you can listen to all of the old episodes as well. And if you get a chance on iTunes or Apple Podcasts or any other place that allows you to rate and review and subscribe, do that. It doesn't cost you anything, and it helps us. All right, a few quick things. things to finish up the show with. Wizards play tonight. Did you know that? I bet you didn't know that. They play tonight against Charlotte, and if they want to make the playoffs, this could be a helpful

win tonight. They've won two in a row, and if you believe in them making this playoff push, they're three games out of the eight spot. Well, they've got to beat Charlotte who's in front of them. So that would be a huge win for them tonight. I'm just telling you that watching the Wizards, it's like watching a summer league game. Every time you watch a game involving the Wizards. There's no defense. There's a lot of offense and they can really score. So if they win tonight, it's likely to be a 133-127 type of game. Meantime, the caps, you know, they've got the devils tonight. This is an easy, this should be an easy game for them. The devils are terrible, and the caps have won five straight and eight of their last 10. They're currently tied for first place in the

division. They've got to keep this streak up. They're playing very well, but God, is the division competitive? The islanders, you know, have won two in a row. The penguins have won three in a row. You know, you've got the caps and the islanders at 85 points. The penguins at 81 and Caroline at 79. In Columbus at 77. So it's still a crowded division in the metropolitan, not to mention, the dominant seasons that Tampa and Boston in particular, and even, you know, Toronto are having in the Atlantic Division. College hoops this weekend. Maryland's got a big game tonight against Minnesota.

You do not want a three-game losing streak to end the regular season. Aaron, after losses last week to Penn State, Michigan, Minnesota's coming off their biggest win of the year, a win over Purdue, which I think locked up a bid for them. Maryland's chances for the double-by still exist didn't help last night that Wisconsin blew out Iowa by 20. But if Wisconsin were to lose at Ohio State on Sunday, if Purdue beats Northwestern, if Michigan State beats Michigan, and if Maryland beats Minnesota, then Maryland's got the double-bye. What Maryland needs to worry about is winning tonight, ending the regular season on an up note. There's seven-point favorites tonight. It's a gold rush game. I know that people are a little bit let down after the Michigan game,

but this needs to be another good home crowd. I know it's a 7 p.m. start Friday night. Not easy to get to, but head out there, and hopefully Maryland can beat Minnesota. They destroyed Minnesota earlier in the season. In one of their best games of the year, actually, they were down six at the half and outscored Minnesota 48 to 27 in the second half. It was one of Anthony Cowan's best time. halves of the year. Stick Smith had a great game and Maryland really, you know, it was a game in which

they played and forced tempo and rebounded and played good defense. They went from man to zone in that game in the second half. It was a huge move by Turgeon that ended up really paying off and they won going away. They need to get a win and then we can sit back and hope that everything else happens to get Maryland into that double buy situation in the Big Ten tournament next weekend. It's a great college basketball weekend in general. Tomorrow, you have Virginia with a chance to win the ACC regular season with a win at home against Louisville. Then how about this as a doubleheader on Saturday night? Duke Carolina, of course, you know, Duke's only got three first round picks playing in that game, not four. So I'm sure they're, I'm sure Coach Kay will complain that he just

doesn't have enough to go in and beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill. But you get Duke, North Carolina at 6 and Michigan at Michigan State at 8 p.m. That game right there for the Big 10 regular season title or potentially a share of it depending on what Purdue does at Northwestern early in the day. So a really good college basketball day on Saturday. And then, you know, not a bad, not a bad day on Sunday either as far as the Big 10 goes with Wisconsin at Ohio. State in a big game there. All right, that wraps it up. Not much more. I mean, I was going to get into the whole LSU-Will-Waid situation, which is really interesting because I don't- They have a really interesting decision. Yeah, with respect to LSU right now. Yeah.

But nobody, most of you don't care about that. But college basketball is actually, you know, we've got a really good weekend this weekend, which will be fun. But again, you know, just reiterating, if there's any big Redskins news we'll come in over the weekend and do we'll do a podcast to address it in the moment if it happens. If not, back with you on Monday,

enjoy the weekend.